North/South/Central American Coins Thursday, let's see them!

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  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @pruebas said:

    Congratulations!

    Thanks! If FedEx doesn't drop the ball, should have both today.

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Clio
    Clio Posts: 653 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Bob13 said:
    Now in hand... looks great (despite my crummy pictures)!

    Outstanding example! that strike is phenomenal!

    https://numismaticmuse.com/ My Web Gallery

    The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"

  • ELuis
    ELuis Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FistFullOfDollars said:
    Technically not a coin but more of a bar, picked this up many years ago.

    Wow, I remember that bank "Banco de Londres y Mexico", talking about the year 1973 if I recall right, many mooons ago.

  • FistFullOfDollars
    FistFullOfDollars Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
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    @ELuis said:
    Wow, I remember that bank "Banco de Londres y Mexico", talking about the year 1973 if I recall right, many mooons ago.

    I am not sure exactly but here is some info I had regarding the bar.

    Presenting a Silver Medal which commemorates the 100th Anniversary of the founding of the Banco de Londres Mexico y Sud America in 1864. The medal displays an image of the first Mexican 100 Peso Bank Note which was issued by the Banco de Londres y Mexico S.A. in 1872.



    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
  • ELuis
    ELuis Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2023 4:19PM
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    @FistFullOfDollars said:

    @ELuis said:
    Wow, I remember that bank "Banco de Londres y Mexico", talking about the year 1973 if I recall right, many mooons ago.

    I am not sure exactly but here is some info I had regarding the bar.

    Presenting a Silver Medal which commemorates the 100th Anniversary of the founding of the Banco de Londres Mexico y Sud America in 1864. The medal displays an image of the first Mexican 100 Peso Bank Note which was issued by the Banco de Londres y Mexico S.A. in 1872.

    I went at least twice, to one of the branches.

  • jgenn
    jgenn Posts: 807 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TwoKopeiki said:
    It's funny how this happens in collecting and another highlight of the fact that there are a lot of collections out there in the raw. After all the commotion caused by the exceptional price realized for the 1772-MF in the latest Stacks sale, Just made a deal for these two well-matched beauties from an long time collector. Both will become part of my core collection that will, hopefully, not see the auction block for many decades to come. Incredibly excited to get these 2 finally in-hand.

    Interesting matching patina -- I await the truview images after you cross to PCGS

    Amazing 8s * Silver Dollars of '60 * My World Crown Affair
  • bidask
    bidask Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Boosibri said:
    From @pruebas and recently crossed as a 66 ;)

    wowee I love that coin !

    Pruebas why don't you offer me some coins too.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • pruebas
    pruebas Posts: 5,286 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @bidask said:

    @Boosibri said:
    From @pruebas and recently crossed as a 66 ;)

    wowee I love that coin !

    Pruebas why don't you offer me some coins too.

    Dan, that’s the Cape Coral coin and you were the underbidder. You dropped out too soon (though I was prepared to go higher)!

  • bidask
    bidask Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @pruebas said:

    @bidask said:

    @Boosibri said:
    From @pruebas and recently crossed as a 66 ;)

    wowee I love that coin !

    Pruebas why don't you offer me some coins too.

    Dan, that’s the Cape Coral coin and you were the underbidder. You dropped out too soon (though I was prepared to go higher)!

    Great coin

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • RSP
    RSP Posts: 81 ✭✭✭
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    Congratulations Brian. I am curious to know what you are planning to do (if anything) with the NGC 66 sticker that PCGS returned to you.
    RSP

  • Boosibri
    Boosibri Posts: 12,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RSP said:
    Congratulations Brian. I am curious to know what you are planning to do (if anything) with the NGC 66 sticker that PCGS returned to you.
    RSP

    I”LL send it in to NGC to keep the pops for the 66 grade as accurate as they were before

    Latin American Collection

  • RSP
    RSP Posts: 81 ✭✭✭
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    Brian, thanks for responding. I have a bunch of these myself because I have been afraid to send them in for fear of having them turn up "lost". Do you send them to any particular department or person? Ever have a problem? Thanks again. Steve

  • bidask
    bidask Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RSP said:
    Brian, thanks for responding. I have a bunch of these myself because I have been afraid to send them in for fear of having them turn up "lost". Do you send them to any particular department or person? Ever have a problem? Thanks again. Steve

    First take photos before you send in ....

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • Boosibri
    Boosibri Posts: 12,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RSP said:
    Brian, thanks for responding. I have a bunch of these myself because I have been afraid to send them in for fear of having them turn up "lost". Do you send them to any particular department or person? Ever have a problem? Thanks again. Steve

    I’ve just sent them in an envelope. Never had an issue that I recall but keeping a photo just in case seems like a great idea.

    Latin American Collection

  • RSP
    RSP Posts: 81 ✭✭✭
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    Great idea! A photo of the pcgs slab with the the sticker on top of the slab just below the coin inspires me to give it a try. I appreciate the tip. I agree that it is a good idea to try to eliminate duplicates in the pop reports.

  • threefifty
    threefifty Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
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    Wow! Is that a Chiloé peso? I had heard the past few that sold at auction were counterfeit... seems like Jara's book is about as rare as the coin too. Would love to hear more details on this coin!

  • Boosibri
    Boosibri Posts: 12,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @threefifty said:
    Wow! Is that a Chiloé peso? I had heard the past few that sold at auction were counterfeit... seems like Jara's book is about as rare as the coin too. Would love to hear more details on this coin!

    Came from Jara. One of three authentic in his view. This the Medina plate and documented back to the 1890’s.

    I’ll do a full write up tomorrow

    Latin American Collection

  • Boosibri
    Boosibri Posts: 12,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Boosibri said:

    @threefifty said:
    Wow! Is that a Chiloé peso? I had heard the past few that sold at auction were counterfeit... seems like Jara's book is about as rare as the coin too. Would love to hear more details on this coin!

    Came from Jara. One of three authentic in his view. This the Medina plate and documented back to the 1890’s.

    I’ll do a full write up tomorrow

    Here is a link to the article that the book is based on
    https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/522799?page=6

    Latin American Collection

  • scubafuel
    scubafuel Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great read, thanks. I had never heard of this coin.

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well, if you were to add a historically significant and highly controversial piece due to proliferation of contemporary counterfeits to the collection - this is definitely the right way to go about it. Congrats Brian!

    Also, you said

    Came from Jara. One of three authentic in his view. This the Medina plate and documented back to the 1890’s.

    Is this not the 1818 illustrated by Medina? Is it the difference in documented weight (26.7g vs 22.1g)? Do you have a video or images of the hand-engraved edge, by chance?

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Boosibri
    Boosibri Posts: 12,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Well, if you were to add a historically significant and highly controversial piece due to proliferation of contemporary counterfeits to the collection - this is definitely the right way to go about it. Congrats Brian!

    Also, you said

    Came from Jara. One of three authentic in his view. This the Medina plate and documented back to the 1890’s.

    Is this not the 1818 illustrated by Medina? Is it the difference in documented weight (26.7g vs 22.1g)? Do you have a video or images of the hand-engraved edge, by chance?

    Posted a full write up.

    The 1818 plated in Medina is 26.7 grams. That coin belonged to Santa Cruz.

    Medinas personal 1822 was 22.1 grams. He used the Santa Cruz piece in Monedas Obsidionales de Chile because he had already sold his collection to Gonzalez.

    Latin American Collection

  • Abuelo
    Abuelo Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @pruebas said:
    @Abuelo wanted to see this coin, and it's taken forever to get certified.

    Mexico 1875-Mo B/M 5c struck in gold (over a gold Peso).
    I do not think this is an actual mint error, but maybe mint sport?
    Possibly a later strike from rusty dies.

    NGC MS62 (PCGS declined to certify it).

    😮😮😮 wow. Really, wow.

  • FistFullOfDollars
    FistFullOfDollars Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
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    Here today I have a Mexico 25 centavos. In 1885 at the Durango mint there were 2 assayers C & S, each of the assayers produced 15,000 coins each. This coin is crudely struck, appears to have both assayers and the eagle has a belly button. There are no graded examples at PCGS or NGC. Although not the most attractive, I find the coin has a lot of character.

    Here is an 1882 DoC that made its way in to my collection by way of @bidask thanks Dan



    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
  • MrEureka
    MrEureka Posts: 24,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FistFullOfDollars said:
    Here today I have a Mexico 25 centavos. In 1885 at the Durango mint there were 2 assayers C & S, each of the assayers produced 15,000 coins each. This coin is crudely struck, appears to have both assayers and the eagle has a belly button. There are no graded examples at PCGS or NGC. Although not the most attractive, I find the coin has a lot of character.

    Not my series, but that looks way too crude to be a Durango Mint product.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • realeswatcher
    realeswatcher Posts: 538 ✭✭✭✭
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    @MrEureka said:

    @FistFullOfDollars said:
    Here today I have a Mexico 25 centavos. In 1885 at the Durango mint there were 2 assayers C & S, each of the assayers produced 15,000 coins each. This coin is crudely struck, appears to have both assayers and the eagle has a belly button. There are no graded examples at PCGS or NGC. Although not the most attractive, I find the coin has a lot of character.

    Not my series, but that looks way too crude to be a Durango Mint product.

    Possible contemp ctfeit was an immediate thought, particularly from the coloration and sloppy date... but looking at a couple other examples with more "normal" looking surfaces, it appears that's probably the legitimate mint issue.

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FistFullOfDollars said:
    Here today I have a Mexico 25 centavos. In 1885 at the Durango mint there were 2 assayers C & S, each of the assayers produced 15,000 coins each. This coin is crudely struck, appears to have both assayers and the eagle has a belly button.

    That "belly button" is a centering dot placed on the die by the die sinker. The die sinker would then use a compass/divider type tool to lightly scratch circular guide lines that will help in laying out the position of letters in the legend. Usually the centering dot would be covered by the central design and guide lines would be buffed out before the die went into production, but not always successfully (as seen above). Zacatecas during the War of Independence was notorious for having guide lines often visible.

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • MrEureka
    MrEureka Posts: 24,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @realeswatcher said:

    @MrEureka said:

    @FistFullOfDollars said:
    Here today I have a Mexico 25 centavos. In 1885 at the Durango mint there were 2 assayers C & S, each of the assayers produced 15,000 coins each. This coin is crudely struck, appears to have both assayers and the eagle has a belly button. There are no graded examples at PCGS or NGC. Although not the most attractive, I find the coin has a lot of character.

    Not my series, but that looks way too crude to be a Durango Mint product.

    Possible contemp ctfeit was an immediate thought, particularly from the coloration and sloppy date... but looking at a couple other examples with more "normal" looking surfaces, it appears that's probably the legitimate mint issue.

    Or maybe they're all fakes. FWIW, I looked at the date style on a number of other Durango issues of the era and they seemed well executed, very much unlike the "1885" on the coins in question. Which is why I was leaning towards calling them contemporary counterfeits. But I did not look at enough coins to be confident about it. I'll leave that to someone else.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • AngryDragon
    AngryDragon Posts: 90 ✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2023 2:13PM
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    centering dots are common during the 1870s. Also refer to this forum thread for more...

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1002849/1877-mexico-8-reales-centering-dot

  • JohnnyCache
    JohnnyCache Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BSmith said:

    What do you think is going on here in the date?
    I suppose it could just be a die chip but, to me, it just seems to be too geometrically shaped to be a random chip, yet at the same time seemingly to far over out of alignment to be part of an overdate digit.

  • threefifty
    threefifty Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
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    Great coin TwoKopeiki, in beautiful shape! Cool that it was an Ebay pickup, it's fun to look for those errors. I got a Potosí 1813 FERDIN IIV last year and am always on the lookout, but there is tough competition.

  • Crazy8s
    Crazy8s Posts: 87 ✭✭✭
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    Great coin Roman, glad it ended up in your collection.

  • Abuelo
    Abuelo Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Really nice @TwoKopeiki

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