I picked this one up today. Struck over an Argentina 8 Reales, with the undertype showing much more dramatically than typically seen. The consignor showed it to me earlier this year when he bought it raw. When he refused to sell it to me, I told him I'd buy it at auction when he was ready. Didn't take very long. LOL.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
I picked this one up today. Struck over an Argentina 8 Reales, with the undertype showing much more dramatically than typically seen. The consignor showed it to me earlier this year when he bought it raw. When he refused to sell it to me, I told him I'd buy it at auction when he was ready. Didn't take very long. LOL.
That's a pretty cool host!
I haven't posted in a while, but here are some of my recent cross-overs to PCGS:
@MrEureka said:
I picked this one up today. Struck over an Argentina 8 Reales, with the undertype showing much more dramatically than typically seen. The consignor showed it to me earlier this year when he bought it raw. When he refused to sell it to me, I told him I'd buy it at auction when he was ready. Didn't take very long. LOL.
I saw that in the auction and was surprised at how poorly described it was with no mention of the clear and cool under type. Obviously the bidders still caught it. Nice!
I just missed Thursday on the East Coast, but here goes anyway....
This is something I bought many years ago and have since forgotten what its purpose was (if it was ever known to begin with). The object is a very thin piece of silver (sometimes called a cliche) with a beautiful Mexican eagle with snake design.
Has anyone ever seen this before or know what it was meant to be used for?
It is currently in an Air-Tite capsule and probably too thin to be certified. Plus, PCGS is having enough attribution problems as it is.
@pruebas said:
I just missed Thursday on the East Coast, but here goes anyway....
This is something I bought many years ago and have since forgotten what its purpose was (if it was ever known to begin with). The object is a very thin piece of silver (sometimes called a cliche) with a beautiful Mexican eagle with snake design.
Has anyone ever seen this before or know what it was meant to be used for?
It is currently in an Air-Tite capsule and probably too thin to be certified. Plus, PCGS is having enough attribution problems as it is.
I like the design!.
It was for a proclamation medal or a medallet? What it is on the other side?
@pruebas said:
I just missed Thursday on the East Coast, but here goes anyway....
This is something I bought many years ago and have since forgotten what its purpose was (if it was ever known to begin with). The object is a very thin piece of silver (sometimes called a cliche) with a beautiful Mexican eagle with snake design.
Has anyone ever seen this before or know what it was meant to be used for?
It is currently in an Air-Tite capsule and probably too thin to be certified. Plus, PCGS is having enough attribution problems as it is.
I like the design!.
It was for a proclamation medal or a medallet? What it is on the other side?
The other side is the same design but incuse and reversed.
Brass pattern for the little 1/15 Oz. Gold coin of 1987 (Mexico).
The gold coin itself is scarce because most went to the Orient to be used in jewelry. The pattern is unique (?).
There is also a similar 1987 1/20 Oz. gold coin which is also scarce. And I suppose a similar pattern must exist for it too. Unfortunately I haven’t yet found it.
Thanks Dan. I wish the luster was a bit less muted, but it's a great looking coin regardless. I don't think it would cross, so it will stay in the NGC plastic.
This 1857 Peru 8R struck at Pasco mint PCGS MS64+. One year type and last year for Peru 8 Reales. Ex Elizondo, Ex Richard Stuart, Ex Americas Collection. Finest of the very few known.
War for independence royalist issue Sierra de Pinos silver strike (obviously holed) from Zacatecas. These are normally copper. I know of two silver strikes, probably for presentation. This is the worst of the two.
Krause has these as cuartillas of San Luis Potosi. But others suggest the value is signified by "V. 1/4 de PP" or "Vale 1/4 de Peso Plata" across both sides which would make them 2 Reales (especially since the legend continues across both sides as well). And the location is Pinos, Zacatecas, very near San Luis Potosi.
There is a new book out about this issue. My copy is waiting for me in Mexico, so I haven’t seen it yet.
Even the copper examples used to be pricy coins, but I understand a hoard was found, so they have come down somewhat. There are two copper examples from the Emilio M Ortiz Collection (of cuartillas) at Stacks-Bowers right now.
This is my last post to the Thursday thread of 2023.
This coin is an octavo of Jalisco (Mexico) struck in silver (and obviously details graded).
The purpose of these silver "state coppers" is unknown, but they are thought to be more presentation pieces than patterns. When the Buttrey-Hubbard catalog, where they were listed as off-metal strikes, was migrated to Krause, Krause had no place for them, so they went into the pattern section.
I have at least one example for Jalisco (as shown here), Guanajuato, and Zacatecas--either an octavo or a cuartillo or both--with various dates. I have not seen any other states struck in silver, but I would imagine they exist and am actively searching for them. Anybody else know of any?
Interestingly, I have only encountered details/damaged examples and MS straight-graded examples. These did not circulate, but they occasionally got damaged due to poor handling.
Here is one I bought knowing it was a counterfeit coin, I wanted a 25c contemporary counterfeit. swamperbob recently had a write up on another forum regarding a hoard found in Mexico, below are the sellers pics.
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
I won this escudo from Costa Rica in a Swiss auction earlier this year. It's a type that is notoriously weakly struck, with flattened central details on even the highest graded coins. This one is a happy exception, and has one of the best strikes I've seen for this design. There is also some interesting die clashing seen mostly on the obverse.
I'll be fully retired next year so this might be the last new coin from me posted here:
From the HA catalog notes:
"Guadeloupe: British Occupation Countermarked 9 Livres ND (1811) VF20 NGC, KM25, Prid-2. 23.67gm. Crenulated square hole and crowned G Counterstamp (XF Standard) on Mexican Colonial Charles III 8 Reales 1767 Mo-MF (KM105). Authorized by Proclamation on 9 May 1811. A very challenging host for this occupation coinage, both pillars partially preserved despite the central plug. Tied for the finest specimen at NGC."
@scubafuel said:
I won this escudo from Costa Rica in a Swiss auction earlier this year. It's a type that is notoriously weakly struck, with flattened central details on even the highest graded coins. This one is a happy exception, and has one of the best strikes I've seen for this design. There is also some interesting die clashing seen mostly on the obverse.
I like it
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@jgenn said:
I'll be fully retired next year so this might be the last new coin from me posted here:
From the HA catalog notes:
"Guadeloupe: British Occupation Countermarked 9 Livres ND (1811) VF20 NGC, KM25, Prid-2. 23.67gm. Crenulated square hole and crowned G Counterstamp (XF Standard) on Mexican Colonial Charles III 8 Reales 1767 Mo-MF (KM105). Authorized by Proclamation on 9 May 1811. A very challenging host for this occupation coinage, both pillars partially preserved despite the central plug. Tied for the finest specimen at NGC."
Nice specimen !
Why retire ? What else will you be doing?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
A recent acquisition: Charles IV coin showing bust of Charles III, a 2-year type. Does anyone have any information about why the wrong portrait was used? Was this just because the die makers didn't know what the new king looked like and used Charles III as a placeholder?
@EASilver said:
A recent acquisition: Charles IV coin showing bust of Charles III, a 2-year type. Does anyone have any information about why the wrong portrait was used? Was this just because the die makers didn't know what the new king looked like and used Charles III as a placeholder?
For what I have read in the past, is that the king died on the year of 1788 in December, in Madrid, they took all the protocols to make the changes, but the news of his death did not reach America until July 1789. By which he orders that currency continue to be minted with his father's bust but in his name, until the new dies arrive.
Here's a fresh grading result from a coin I purchased over the summer. It went F12. Maybe not the most sound financial decision given the cost of grading relative to the coin, but I'm happy with a straight grade.
There are three denominations and two assayers available for 1831 Costa Rica and none of them seem very common. My F12 is behind a single VG20 as the only two coins for the type/date/assayer graded by PCGS so far, though I'm sure there are plenty more and nicer raw examples out there. Hopefully I can find one of the F assayer to complete the pair for the year.
Comments
I picked this one up today. Struck over an Argentina 8 Reales, with the undertype showing much more dramatically than typically seen. The consignor showed it to me earlier this year when he bought it raw. When he refused to sell it to me, I told him I'd buy it at auction when he was ready. Didn't take very long. LOL.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That's a pretty cool host!
I haven't posted in a while, but here are some of my recent cross-overs to PCGS:
8 Reales Madness Collection
I saw that in the auction and was surprised at how poorly described it was with no mention of the clear and cool under type. Obviously the bidders still caught it. Nice!
Latin American Collection
A couple of newps - Bolivia 4R and Mexico 2R
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
I just missed Thursday on the East Coast, but here goes anyway....
This is something I bought many years ago and have since forgotten what its purpose was (if it was ever known to begin with). The object is a very thin piece of silver (sometimes called a cliche) with a beautiful Mexican eagle with snake design.
Has anyone ever seen this before or know what it was meant to be used for?
It is currently in an Air-Tite capsule and probably too thin to be certified. Plus, PCGS is having enough attribution problems as it is.
I like the design!.
It was for a proclamation medal or a medallet? What it is on the other side?
Recent pickup and some videos showing off the luster
https://i.imgur.com/RvT83Rl.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/anA3f4e.mp4
https://numismaticmuse.com/ My Web Gallery
The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Mexico ND(1982-1995) Planchet pattern for silver Libertad Onza in aluminum with a lettered edge.
I believe this pattern was to either sample the size of the new coin or to test out the edge lettering.
The other side is the same design but incuse and reversed.
But I have no idea what it was meant for.
10-4 - Thanks!
I posted these in the gold thread but figured I’d add them here as well.
@scubafuel amazing.
Second that!
I used to own those.
They are great coins .
I also used to own the Norweb PL 65 Mexican 8 escudos Pruebas showed .
Another fantastic coin
They all came from the same collection .
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/heritage/browse?a=660&l=690278
I still own the Garrett Mexican 4 escudos in 65 .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
So it was you who bought that type set! Very cool. Thanks, I’m really enjoying these two.
New addition to the set from across the pond thanks to @Bjorn
8 Reales Madness Collection
Brass pattern for the little 1/15 Oz. Gold coin of 1987 (Mexico).
The gold coin itself is scarce because most went to the Orient to be used in jewelry. The pattern is unique (?).
There is also a similar 1987 1/20 Oz. gold coin which is also scarce. And I suppose a similar pattern must exist for it too. Unfortunately I haven’t yet found it.
Purchased this yesterday and I'm looking forward to receiving it. I had been looking for one for a couple of years!
![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/fx/3oszsx0yv5oh.jpeg ""
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Thanks Dan. I wish the luster was a bit less muted, but it's a great looking coin regardless. I don't think it would cross, so it will stay in the NGC plastic.
8 Reales Madness Collection
This 1857 Peru 8R struck at Pasco mint PCGS MS64+. One year type and last year for Peru 8 Reales. Ex Elizondo, Ex Richard Stuart, Ex Americas Collection. Finest of the very few known.
A very rare date
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Three dates!
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A recent upgrade for the type:
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
That’s small…sorry 😂
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
1838-Mo Pattern Cuartilla. Yes, it’s damaged, but it’s the only one of its type I’ve ever found, so it’ll have to do.
Nice one @pruebas
War for independence royalist issue Sierra de Pinos silver strike (obviously holed) from Zacatecas. These are normally copper. I know of two silver strikes, probably for presentation. This is the worst of the two.
Krause has these as cuartillas of San Luis Potosi. But others suggest the value is signified by "V. 1/4 de PP" or "Vale 1/4 de Peso Plata" across both sides which would make them 2 Reales (especially since the legend continues across both sides as well). And the location is Pinos, Zacatecas, very near San Luis Potosi.
There is a new book out about this issue. My copy is waiting for me in Mexico, so I haven’t seen it yet.
Even the copper examples used to be pricy coins, but I understand a hoard was found, so they have come down somewhat. There are two copper examples from the Emilio M Ortiz Collection (of cuartillas) at Stacks-Bowers right now.
Simply amazing coin pruebas. Would you be able to share the name of the book?
This link should take you there. Note the book is in Spanish.
I ordered two extra copies that are all sitting in Mexico City waiting for me to pick them up in March.
This is my last post to the Thursday thread of 2023.
This coin is an octavo of Jalisco (Mexico) struck in silver (and obviously details graded).
The purpose of these silver "state coppers" is unknown, but they are thought to be more presentation pieces than patterns. When the Buttrey-Hubbard catalog, where they were listed as off-metal strikes, was migrated to Krause, Krause had no place for them, so they went into the pattern section.
I have at least one example for Jalisco (as shown here), Guanajuato, and Zacatecas--either an octavo or a cuartillo or both--with various dates. I have not seen any other states struck in silver, but I would imagine they exist and am actively searching for them. Anybody else know of any?
Interestingly, I have only encountered details/damaged examples and MS straight-graded examples. These did not circulate, but they occasionally got damaged due to poor handling.
Happy 2024 everyone!
@pruebas
Here is one I bought knowing it was a counterfeit coin, I wanted a 25c contemporary counterfeit. swamperbob recently had a write up on another forum regarding a hoard found in Mexico, below are the sellers pics.
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
Latin American Collection
I won this escudo from Costa Rica in a Swiss auction earlier this year. It's a type that is notoriously weakly struck, with flattened central details on even the highest graded coins. This one is a happy exception, and has one of the best strikes I've seen for this design. There is also some interesting die clashing seen mostly on the obverse.
I'll be fully retired next year so this might be the last new coin from me posted here:
From the HA catalog notes:
"Guadeloupe: British Occupation Countermarked 9 Livres ND (1811) VF20 NGC, KM25, Prid-2. 23.67gm. Crenulated square hole and crowned G Counterstamp (XF Standard) on Mexican Colonial Charles III 8 Reales 1767 Mo-MF (KM105). Authorized by Proclamation on 9 May 1811. A very challenging host for this occupation coinage, both pillars partially preserved despite the central plug. Tied for the finest specimen at NGC."
I like it
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Nice specimen !
Why retire ? What else will you be doing?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Working on house projects and taking care of Mom, just about to turn 90
Not retired but just finished doing that, so I understand your situation.
A recent acquisition: Charles IV coin showing bust of Charles III, a 2-year type. Does anyone have any information about why the wrong portrait was used? Was this just because the die makers didn't know what the new king looked like and used Charles III as a placeholder?
For what I have read in the past, is that the king died on the year of 1788 in December, in Madrid, they took all the protocols to make the changes, but the news of his death did not reach America until July 1789. By which he orders that currency continue to be minted with his father's bust but in his name, until the new dies arrive.
A 4Q23 pickup and part of my world Box of 20:
Here's a fresh grading result from a coin I purchased over the summer. It went F12. Maybe not the most sound financial decision given the cost of grading relative to the coin, but I'm happy with a straight grade.
There are three denominations and two assayers available for 1831 Costa Rica and none of them seem very common. My F12 is behind a single VG20 as the only two coins for the type/date/assayer graded by PCGS so far, though I'm sure there are plenty more and nicer raw examples out there. Hopefully I can find one of the F assayer to complete the pair for the year.
Latin American Collection