@marmac said:
I do believe this thread has resulted in me creeping over to the darkside and contemplating a box of 20 representing the America's- thanks a lot!
Here's a coin I'm happy to have received yesterday. I think I was lucky to have seen it listed at a fixed price and I didn't hesitate very long before buying it. There is a problem area from where I suspect the coin was removed from a mount but handling it I don't mind as much as I thought I would. It's a really fun coin to hold and examine, and there is a lot to see on the edge. Problem free examples of the type are so rare and expensive that I did not anticipate finding one and I was not even thinking about trying to acquire one. So having one fall into my lap was quite a surprise.
My starting point for learning about the coin was A Monetary History of Central America by Brian Stickney. There are also some informative past auction descriptions on Heritage Auctions if anyone wants to learn more.
The Central American Republic's constitution of 1824 described coins that were to be minted in the same fineness as Spanish government issues, but with "some minor differences permitted". This coin was minted in Honduras one year later, however after just a few months of minting, the nonstandard issues were declared illegal in favor of more standardized production and many may have been melted.
There are some points of disagreement among references I found especially around the silver purity of this coin, so I'm hoping to figure that out soon. One says it is 0.750 fine, while another says 0.903, and a third says it was struck at the higher fineness of colonial cobs to make up for its appearance. The last explanation makes sense to me and I don't see why you'd add the minor difference clause to the constitution without the intention of doing something like that. At the same time I don't think a reduction from around 90% to 75% would be considered a minor difference, though I'm no constitutional scholar.
I'm also curious about the lettering on this example, especially in CENT and CRESC. Specifically whether there is some die clashing in those areas, or if there is something else going on. I didn't see other examples online with the same appearance there.
Looks double struck to me.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Only 15 Lima Peru Charles III 4 Reales straight graded across all years and at both TPG's combined.
This is the only example graded higher than VF.
You can see some light die clashing just to the right of the portrait, looking closely you're able to make out the column. Starting from the left of "DE" in Dei Gratia, with the plus ultra banner almost hitting the "G" and then finishing up at the bottom by the "T" in Gratia.
Apparently unrecorded in silver 1891-dated Colombia 50 centavos pattern (for the 1892 issue) with unadopted small condor reverse and short legend incuse lettered edge (DIOS LEI LIBERTAD) . It does turn up with reeded edge (though that also quite rare), and all varieties of the 1892 Columbus discovery anniversary issue including proofs are reeded. Struck in Birmingham, hubs now in Bogota Mint Museum. Not in KM nor in Restrepo in Ar with this edge, though Stack's has a copper example (2018 Meissner), (Not Thursday but I was away.)
Wholesome, cute, very rare 1771 NR VJ Santa Fe de Bogota one escudo Carlos III "rat nose". Of the three dates known to exist for type (1763,1767, & 1771) only the 1767 turns up at auction with any regularity (one every 4-6 years). I found no examples of the 1763, and the sole 1771 was countermarked. N.B. Popayan escudo(s) this era sport the entirely different peruked bust of Ferdinand despite being in the name of Carlos and are, generally speaking, many times less rare than this correct Nuevo Reino style portrait. Of the latter, specimens of both the one and four escudos "rat nose" are especially challenging.
Yes, I know it is not Thursday, but I just got this one at Stack's and am very happy. Super rare for the First Empire... How they decided 60 dollars was a good estimate is a mystery to me... Enjoy!
@Abuelo said:
Yes, I know it is not Thursday, but I just got this one at Stack's and am very happy. Super rare for the First Empire... How they decided 60 dollars was a good estimate is a mystery to me... Enjoy!
I was watching that one, @Abuelo. Why am I thinking that it was a $100-200 coin?
Edited to add: I must have been thinking of the 1/8R not the 1/4R that you bought. Congratulations!
@pruebas correct, the 1/8 go for that. In fact when I saw the catalogue first I thought it was an 1/8 real. But then I paid attention and am very happy I did. Thanks.
A few additions to the set from today's Stacks sale and one spectacular loss:
Wins:
This 1784 is a date I needed for the set and it had all the things I appreciate in terms of eye appeal:
Figured if this one went relatively cheap, I'd pick it up. It did.
Unattributed variety - 1810 HJ/TH over-assayer. Also went pretty cheap.
And here's the one that got away. 1772-MF is a pretty tough coin in any grade with no uncirculated examples known, but it wasn't a $9k+ coin to me. Congrats to the new owner.
Following the rule breaking trend, though not from Stack's but rather through an Instagram connection.
Here's my latest. A coin I needed for my Charles IIII registry set.
A Top Pop.
I've got some NGC boxes home from the bank for inventory and thought you folks might be interested in seeing these. Many of my better coins are in NGC holders, and I will not be playing the crackout game given the present state of affairs.
Sorry for the poor cell phone pics. These copper patterns usually come in horrendous condition.
@pruebas said:
I've got some NGC boxes home from the bank for inventory and thought you folks might be interested in seeing these. Many of my better coins are in NGC holders, and I will not be playing the crackout game given the present state of affairs.
Sorry for the poor cell phone pics. These copper patterns usually come in horrendous condition.
Those are nice
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
@pruebas said:
I've got some NGC boxes home from the bank for inventory and thought you folks might be interested in seeing these. Many of my better coins are in NGC holders, and I will not be playing the crackout game given the present state of affairs.
Sorry for the poor cell phone pics. These copper patterns usually come in horrendous condition.
Wowee!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Better image than the first time I saw it. That is a really nice coin for the mint and denomination. Those who aren't familiar with the series don't know how hard it is to find anything decent for it.
Better image than the first time I saw it. That is a really nice coin for the mint and denomination. Those who aren't familiar with the series don't know how hard it is to find anything decent for it.
Santiago del Nuevo Extremo, Capitania General de Chile, 1/2 Real 1760.
The Santiago mint issued 8 Real Columnarios from 1751 to 1770 (with interruptions in several years), as well 4 Reales and 1/2 Real only in 1760.
Some authors mention both 1 and 2 Real issues in 1758 and 1760, as well as a 1/2 real dated 1756. However, the existence of these coins has to date not been verified.
An extremely rare columnario with only 6 known, 3 of which are pierced. No new examples reported for the last 25 years.
This is a coin which I had been searching for since 1991. I had an opportunity to buy a slightly better example during a visit to Santiago in 1991, (but foolishly missed that opportunity).
@Eddi said:
Santiago del Nuevo Extremo, Capitania General de Chile, 1/2 Real 1760.
The Santiago mint issued 8 Real Columnarios from 1751 to 1770 (with interruptions in several years), as well 4 Reales and 1/2 Real only in 1760.
Some authors mention both 1 and 2 Real issues in 1758 and 1760, as well as a 1/2 real dated 1756. However, the existence of these coins has to date not been verified.
An extremely rare columnario with only 6 known, 3 of which are pierced. No new examples reported for the last 25 years.
This is a coin which I had been searching for since 1991. I had an opportunity to buy a slightly better example during a visit to Santiago in 1991, (but foolishly missed that opportunity).
@Eddi said:
Santiago del Nuevo Extremo, Capitania General de Chile, 1/2 Real 1760.
The Santiago mint issued 8 Real Columnarios from 1751 to 1770 (with interruptions in several years), as well 4 Reales and 1/2 Real only in 1760.
Some authors mention both 1 and 2 Real issues in 1758 and 1760, as well as a 1/2 real dated 1756. However, the existence of these coins has to date not been verified.
An extremely rare columnario with only 6 known, 3 of which are pierced. No new examples reported for the last 25 years.
This is a coin which I had been searching for since 1991. I had an opportunity to buy a slightly better example during a visit to Santiago in 1991, (but foolishly missed that opportunity).
Amazing coin and one to be proud to own congrats!!!
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
Successful Transactions with the following board members: Pruebas & SimonW
Mexico 1/2 Real KM71. 1790 Charles IIII with Charles III bust and inverted 6 for 9. Better variety for the year. Not the most attractive coin of the bunch but okay for 1-year type with certified population of only 9; 4 higher.
@AngryDragon said:
Mexico 1/2 Real KM71. 1790 Charles IIII with Charles III bust and inverted 6 for 9. Better variety for the year. Not the most attractive coin of the bunch but okay for 1-year type with certified population of only 9; 4 higher.
@TwoKopeiki said:
A few additions to the set from today's Stacks sale and one spectacular loss:
...
And here's the one that got away. 1772-MF is a pretty tough coin in any grade with no uncirculated examples known, but it wasn't a $9k+ coin to me. Congrats to the new owner.
It's funny how this happens in collecting and another highlight of the fact that there are a lot of collections out there in the raw. After all the commotion caused by the exceptional price realized for the 1772-MF in the latest Stacks sale, Just made a deal for these two well-matched beauties from an long time collector. Both will become part of my core collection that will, hopefully, not see the auction block for many decades to come. Incredibly excited to get these 2 finally in-hand.
@TwoKopeiki said:
A few additions to the set from today's Stacks sale and one spectacular loss:
...
And here's the one that got away. 1772-MF is a pretty tough coin in any grade with no uncirculated examples known, but it wasn't a $9k+ coin to me. Congrats to the new owner.
It's funny how this happens in collecting and another highlight of the fact that there are a lot of collections out there in the raw. After all the commotion caused by the exceptional price realized for the 1772-MF in the latest Stacks sale, Just made a deal for these two well-matched beauties from an long time collector. Both will become part of my core collection that will, hopefully, not see the auction block for many decades to come. Incredibly excited to get these 2 finally in-hand.
Comments
Welcome! There’s plenty to choose from.
Looks double struck to me.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I haven't shown these before. Patterns for the Mexico 2019-Mo 20 Peso Veracruz 500th Anniversary Commemorative.
Here is the issued coin:
Central States pick up yesterday. Ex. Don Canaparo
Latin American Collection
Fantastic example!
8 Reales Madness Collection
@Boosibri That’s excellent! Will you post it on Instagram? I’d love to see a video of it.
Only 15 Lima Peru Charles III 4 Reales straight graded across all years and at both TPG's combined.
This is the only example graded higher than VF.
You can see some light die clashing just to the right of the portrait, looking closely you're able to make out the column. Starting from the left of "DE" in Dei Gratia, with the plus ultra banner almost hitting the "G" and then finishing up at the bottom by the "T" in Gratia.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Just did
Latin American Collection
Not Thursday, but this coin celebrates a radical turning point for Spain in the Americas:
Well, just Love coins, period.
Apparently unrecorded in silver 1891-dated Colombia 50 centavos pattern (for the 1892 issue) with unadopted small condor reverse and short legend incuse lettered edge (DIOS LEI LIBERTAD) . It does turn up with reeded edge (though that also quite rare), and all varieties of the 1892 Columbus discovery anniversary issue including proofs are reeded. Struck in Birmingham, hubs now in Bogota Mint Museum. Not in KM nor in Restrepo in Ar with this edge, though Stack's has a copper example (2018 Meissner), (Not Thursday but I was away.)
It isn't excellent but i like this coin.
Peace.
Wholesome, cute, very rare 1771 NR VJ Santa Fe de Bogota one escudo Carlos III "rat nose". Of the three dates known to exist for type (1763,1767, & 1771) only the 1767 turns up at auction with any regularity (one every 4-6 years). I found no examples of the 1763, and the sole 1771 was countermarked. N.B. Popayan escudo(s) this era sport the entirely different peruked bust of Ferdinand despite being in the name of Carlos and are, generally speaking, many times less rare than this correct Nuevo Reino style portrait. Of the latter, specimens of both the one and four escudos "rat nose" are especially challenging.
Yes, I know it is not Thursday, but I just got this one at Stack's and am very happy. Super rare for the First Empire... How they decided 60 dollars was a good estimate is a mystery to me... Enjoy!
I was watching that one, @Abuelo. Why am I thinking that it was a $100-200 coin?
Edited to add: I must have been thinking of the 1/8R not the 1/4R that you bought. Congratulations!
@pruebas correct, the 1/8 go for that. In fact when I saw the catalogue first I thought it was an 1/8 real. But then I paid attention and am very happy I did. Thanks.
A few additions to the set from today's Stacks sale and one spectacular loss:
Wins:
This 1784 is a date I needed for the set and it had all the things I appreciate in terms of eye appeal:
Figured if this one went relatively cheap, I'd pick it up. It did.
Unattributed variety - 1810 HJ/TH over-assayer. Also went pretty cheap.
And here's the one that got away. 1772-MF is a pretty tough coin in any grade with no uncirculated examples known, but it wasn't a $9k+ coin to me. Congrats to the new owner.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Following the rule breaking trend, though not from Stack's but rather through an Instagram connection.
Here's my latest. A coin I needed for my Charles IIII registry set.
A Top Pop.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
I've got some NGC boxes home from the bank for inventory and thought you folks might be interested in seeing these. Many of my better coins are in NGC holders, and I will not be playing the crackout game given the present state of affairs.
Sorry for the poor cell phone pics. These copper patterns usually come in horrendous condition.
Those are nice
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
Jim Elliot
Wowee!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@pruebas never disappoints.
Really beautiful pieces there, Sir. I am surprised these didn't get a "specimen" designation, not that it really matters.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Dated 1758/7 - The host coin is listed by Yonaka as L1-58b R3
1781 Mexico 1 Real of Charles III with a single chop mark on the King's neck.
This chop marked coin goes great with what I like to collect.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Picked this one up. Photos look promising.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Hope it works out for you Roman !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
An small improvement to the one I already had in my sets
I hope to find a nicer example of a Ferdinand VII some day but for now this is my place holder in the set
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Withdrawn Surinam 1966 One Gulden, much scarcer than the 1962:
1867 Pi Peso, very PL. Doesn’t have a lot of hairlines on inspection :
Well, just Love coins, period.
Latin American Collection
Better image than the first time I saw it. That is a really nice coin for the mint and denomination. Those who aren't familiar with the series don't know how hard it is to find anything decent for it.
Thanks! Will post the Trueview whenever it posts
Latin American Collection
Obverse cleaning with overall semi-PL fields. What a shame
8 Reales Madness Collection
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Indeed, so wonder if this is on the same page as your coin:
I love this thread
Agreed! This thread has been delivering for 14 and a half years so far
8 Reales Madness Collection
Well, might as well add a couple of more affordable examples for balance. 1813-HJ is a tougher coin than you'd expect.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Trueview or PhotoVision? PhotoVision captured color better
Latin American Collection
I still prefer PCGS images, but they do tend prefer warmer undertones with more reds and yellows.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Santiago del Nuevo Extremo, Capitania General de Chile, 1/2 Real 1760.
The Santiago mint issued 8 Real Columnarios from 1751 to 1770 (with interruptions in several years), as well 4 Reales and 1/2 Real only in 1760.
Some authors mention both 1 and 2 Real issues in 1758 and 1760, as well as a 1/2 real dated 1756. However, the existence of these coins has to date not been verified.
An extremely rare columnario with only 6 known, 3 of which are pierced. No new examples reported for the last 25 years.
This is a coin which I had been searching for since 1991. I had an opportunity to buy a slightly better example during a visit to Santiago in 1991, (but foolishly missed that opportunity).
Congrats! That’s a rare piece!!
Latin American Collection
That's incredible! Congrats!!!
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Amazing coin and one to be proud to own congrats!!!
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
Successful Transactions with the following board members: Pruebas & SimonW
A couple of 25 centavos for your viewing pleasure.
1878 DoB mintage unknown
1879 PiE mintage unknown
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
Mexico 1/2 Real KM71. 1790 Charles IIII with Charles III bust and inverted 6 for 9. Better variety for the year. Not the most attractive coin of the bunch but okay for 1-year type with certified population of only 9; 4 higher.
Cool variety!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
I love this thread> @JohnnyCache said:
that's awesome
It's funny how this happens in collecting and another highlight of the fact that there are a lot of collections out there in the raw. After all the commotion caused by the exceptional price realized for the 1772-MF in the latest Stacks sale, Just made a deal for these two well-matched beauties from an long time collector. Both will become part of my core collection that will, hopefully, not see the auction block for many decades to come. Incredibly excited to get these 2 finally in-hand.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Congratulations!