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North/South/Central American Coins Thursday, let's see them!

1464749515256

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Euclid I think they are rare enough that this was not a bad decision.

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2024 10:05PM

    @Euclid I don’t think so. If you were certifying a $40 1942 US quarter, of which there are literally millions…maybe not such a good idea, but this is wholesome and rare. I have a coin I just bought for less than a hundred dollars, but there’s only three known at the moment. I will definitely certify it, if for no other reason than to have it recognized in the census. The world should know of its existence. I mean, not many people care about it right now, but it’s rare…it should be certified in my opinion. I think things that are valuable should be certified, not all value equates to monetary cost.

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • EuclidEuclid Posts: 111 ✭✭✭

    Thank you both. I was feeling a bit of sticker shock after paying the grading invoice but I feel better now

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 12:17PM

    @Weiss said:
    One of a half-dozen gold coins I bought earlier this year for 10% or 20% above melt. This one was $100 out the door.

    How it started:

    How it ended:

    Fantastic! Did the others do similarly well?

    Edited to add: now I see the Guatemalan did not.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gracias.
    Yepper. Except for that damned Guatemalan piece I asked about just now.


    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss wow

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2024 12:44PM

    Even a broken clock is right a couple of times a day ;)

    One of a couple of Maximilian Tokens the dealer threw in for literally a few dollars. This one listed by Locke as "Aztec Indian #1". Didn't get it slabbed, but super happy to have it in the collection. The reverse is the Aztec calendar:

    http://www.calgoldcoin.com/oldhtml/mexico.htm

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas

    Very nice, I appreciate the absolute rarity, I’ve been looking at these ever since I saw you post one a while back. I have seen a couple 4 Maravedís, but they seem to be much more common.

    Really cool coins!

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @SimonW.

    Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.

    Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.

    The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.

    Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?

  • OnwardOnward Posts: 23 ✭✭

    Congratulations, @pruebas ! Lot 112 is Nesmith 2a, and the plate coin. Very rare, and a very important coin. Thank you for sharing these significant acquisitions, and your impressive set. Let's hope for four in '24!

    Pursuing Charles & Joanna, especially Early Series

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    Thanks @SimonW.

    Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.

    Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.

    The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.

    Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?

    The story makes them even more interesting. I like ‘em! Of course beauty is always in the eye of the beholder…but I don’t think anyone would ever accuse you of collecting ugly coins.

    One day someone will find a small hoard of these I’m sure. One will grade as uncirculated and it’ll find its way to you. That’s when I’ll buy one. That’s what I did with the Greek Attica. 😁

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    Thanks @SimonW.

    Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.

    Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.

    The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.

    Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?

    There are virtually no copper colonial coins from any mint. Outside of Chile, I don't know if other Latin countries have large copper reserves and if so, this had anything to do with it. Or maybe silver was just so common in Mexico, that's the reason.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2024 10:00AM

    @Onward said:
    Congratulations, @pruebas ! Lot 112 is Nesmith 2a, and the plate coin. Very rare, and a very important coin. Thank you for sharing these significant acquisitions, and your impressive set. Let's hope for four in '24!

    Thanks @Onward.

    Pedigree chain for the PCGS F15 coin above:

    Busser Collection, formed before 1955 and sold by Superior in 1974
    [possibly other collections]
    Potomac Collection, sold by Sedwick in 2020
    Syd Martin Collection, sold by Stacks Bowers in 2024
    @pruebas Collection

    And yes, it is the plate coin for Nesmith-2a in his 1955 book.

    For those unaware, these coins were minted around 1540-1560, so less than 100 years after European colonization of the New World (excluding the brief Norsemen/Viking settlements).

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    @pruebas said:
    Thanks @SimonW.

    Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.

    Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.

    The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.

    Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?

    There are virtually no copper colonial coins from any mint. Outside of Chile, I don't know if other Latin countries have large copper reserves and if so, this had anything to do with it. Or maybe silver was just so common in Mexico, that's the reason.

    True, but Mexican hoe money (tajadero de cobre) was copper and used before the Europeans arrived, along with cacao seeds.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a really beautiful coin there, Sir!

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • ELuisELuis Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    Ex. MrEureka, Rudman & Bidask

    It has a fingerprints? If it does, does not take out any of the beauty of the coin.

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's awesome @realeswatcher !

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @realeswatcher said:
    I don't usually do the show and tell thing but this one is fun...

    That is hilarious.

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful @ELuis

  • @7Jaguars said:
    Jamaican Rarity, ex-Rudman

    1914 Halfpenny in MS65:


    Anyone here aware whether or not PCGS recognizes Rudman pedigree on their labels?
    I crossed a couple pieces (NGC → PCGS) from his collection and requested that pedigree be added and it was not, despite supporting evidence from auction houses. Wondering if I have to press harder or if such efforts would be all for naught. The collective wisdom of the community here is appreciated in advance.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Haven't tried (and I only have three Rudman pieces anyway). They really can be difficult at times, even with SEVERE documentation...

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EASilver said:
    Common coins, but such an elegant design. Love seeing the gold and silver together (64 and 62 , respectively).


    Senorita Libertad looks to have gained a few pounds going to gold! Thanks for sharing.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • @7Jaguars said:
    Haven't tried (and I only have three Rudman pieces anyway). They really can be difficult at times, even with SEVERE documentation...

    Thanks much.

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2024 12:06PM

    .

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.

    Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.

    The Peso in the Porfirio Diaz times, was 1 to 1 with the dollar, when he left was a 50 cents or in other words 2x1

    Since 1994 plus or minus Peso lost a 1000%, so 1000 Pesos went or converted to 1 Peso... That in one day.

    Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2024 10:09AM

    @ELuis said:

    @pruebas said:
    The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.

    Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.

    Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.

    I believe it was a simple mistake. An American firm doing a medal in Spanish. I think American Banknote Company occasionally made similar mistakes on banknotes for Latin America.

    Héroe is a Spanish masculine noun. If the legend was meant to say "To the hero of peace," the corrected legend would be correct. The error legend has the gender of the noun incorrect as well it's missing the preposition "to." It simply says "The hero of peace" with the incorrect gender of hero.

    If I were paying Tiffany the huge sum they most likely were asking for such a medal to be made, I would want it correct too. But I am surprised Tiffany released the mistake(s). Maybe that was a sample meant for the official who requested it's manufacture?

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2024 11:17AM

    @pruebas said:

    @ELuis said:

    @pruebas said:
    The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.

    Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.

    Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.

    I believe it was a simple mistake. An American firm doing a medal in Spanish. I think American Banknote Company occasionally made similar mistakes on banknotes for Latin America.

    Héroe is a Spanish masculine noun. If the legend was meant to say "To the hero of peace," the corrected legend would be correct. The error legend has the gender of the noun incorrect as well it's missing the preposition "to." It simply says "The hero of peace" with the incorrect gender of hero.

    If I were paying Tiffany the huge sum they most likely were asking for such a medal to be made, I would want it correct too. But I am surprised Tiffany released the mistake(s). Maybe that was a sample meant for the official who requested it's manufacture?

    Yeah, I’ll confirm that. “Al Héroe” means, literally “To the hero” “A” means “to” “El” means “the” and “héroe” means “hero.” In Spanish when you put “A”and “El” next to each other it becomes a combined word “Al.” If it were a female hero you’d say “A La heroína” because the “A” and “La” don’t combine because there’s a consonante between the vowels, unlike the masculine version. A female hero is a completely different word. “La Héroe” is just plain wrong. Wrong gender with the incorrect gender word. It’s an understandable mistake, probably some simple dyslexic switch, but clearly the one designing and approving the coin didn’t know Spanish, it’s a painfully obvious error to anyone who actually speaks the language.

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2024 11:24AM

    I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ELuis said:
    I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.

    @ELuis I didn't intend to insult your Spanish :#

    What I meant is that the official in Chihuahua who requested it most likely got this exact medal and wrote to Tiffany to have it corrected (making this piece a pattern). I doubt Diaz saw it until it was perfect (exactly for the reason you state)!

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:

    @ELuis said:
    I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.

    @ELuis I didn't intend to insult your Spanish :#

    What I meant is that the official in Chihuahua who requested it most likely got this exact medal and wrote to Tiffany to have it corrected (making this piece a pattern). I doubt Diaz saw it until it was perfect (exactly for the reason you state)!

    No problem at all Pruebas :smile:.

    And i got it - Nice pair of medals for sure as the many other coins you have posted here, so far.

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful @JohnnyCache

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