@Euclid I don’t think so. If you were certifying a $40 1942 US quarter, of which there are literally millions…maybe not such a good idea, but this is wholesome and rare. I have a coin I just bought for less than a hundred dollars, but there’s only three known at the moment. I will definitely certify it, if for no other reason than to have it recognized in the census. The world should know of its existence. I mean, not many people care about it right now, but it’s rare…it should be certified in my opinion. I think things that are valuable should be certified, not all value equates to monetary cost.
Even a broken clock is right a couple of times a day
One of a couple of Maximilian Tokens the dealer threw in for literally a few dollars. This one listed by Locke as "Aztec Indian #1". Didn't get it slabbed, but super happy to have it in the collection. The reverse is the Aztec calendar:
Not as colorful as the eye appealing AU58 that @EASilver recently posted. However, I am pleased to report this recent addition of the 1789 Charles IV 8R with the bust of Charles III in AU55 which completes a three-year set of Charles IV (1789 - 1790).
An easy and relatively ignored set which has, surprisingly, gone unchallenged since 2018; To my surprise, I already had two of the three required in inventory, both dated 1790.
Better to be a big fish in a little pond, than a little fish in a big one.
This Thursday I'm posting a photo of what once had to be a beautiful proof-like peso, ruined by a wipe or eraser. 😢 Under a diffuse light source it's still a pretty coin. I purchased this coin decades ago from Richard Long, and more recently have been looking for a replacement for my Mexican type collection.
@EASilver it's really tough to find a presentable, straight-graded, Balance Scale Peso for a type coin. Surprisingly tough. But as many experienced Mexican numismatists know, the decimal series, in general, is very difficult with many "hidden" rarities.
Here is my Thursday addition from the recent Syd Martin sale. Mr. Martin had three of these Mexican 2 Maravedis and I was able to buy the two I didn't have.
These are very rare coins and the first one below may be the only straight-graded example known. It brought over $10k in a Sedwick sale a few years ago when Mr. Martin purchased it. Fortunately, I bought it for roughly a quarter of that price, which I think was a steal.
Granted, they aren't "sexy" or much to look at....
I now have three of the four known types of these in my collection.
The new additions:
This one was already in my collection:
Edited to add: I just found a straight-graded VG in the PCGS Census, so mine is the second straight-graded example (F15). NGC doesn't show any graded at all.
Very nice, I appreciate the absolute rarity, I’ve been looking at these ever since I saw you post one a while back. I have seen a couple 4 Maravedís, but they seem to be much more common.
Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.
Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.
The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.
Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?
Congratulations, @pruebas ! Lot 112 is Nesmith 2a, and the plate coin. Very rare, and a very important coin. Thank you for sharing these significant acquisitions, and your impressive set. Let's hope for four in '24!
Pursuing Charles & Joanna, especially Early Series
Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.
Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.
The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.
Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?
The story makes them even more interesting. I like ‘em! Of course beauty is always in the eye of the beholder…but I don’t think anyone would ever accuse you of collecting ugly coins.
One day someone will find a small hoard of these I’m sure. One will grade as uncirculated and it’ll find its way to you. That’s when I’ll buy one. That’s what I did with the Greek Attica. 😁
Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.
Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.
The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.
Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?
There are virtually no copper colonial coins from any mint. Outside of Chile, I don't know if other Latin countries have large copper reserves and if so, this had anything to do with it. Or maybe silver was just so common in Mexico, that's the reason.
@Onward said:
Congratulations, @pruebas ! Lot 112 is Nesmith 2a, and the plate coin. Very rare, and a very important coin. Thank you for sharing these significant acquisitions, and your impressive set. Let's hope for four in '24!
Busser Collection, formed before 1955 and sold by Superior in 1974
[possibly other collections]
Potomac Collection, sold by Sedwick in 2020
Syd Martin Collection, sold by Stacks Bowers in 2024 @pruebas Collection
And yes, it is the plate coin for Nesmith-2a in his 1955 book.
For those unaware, these coins were minted around 1540-1560, so less than 100 years after European colonization of the New World (excluding the brief Norsemen/Viking settlements).
Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.
Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.
The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.
Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?
There are virtually no copper colonial coins from any mint. Outside of Chile, I don't know if other Latin countries have large copper reserves and if so, this had anything to do with it. Or maybe silver was just so common in Mexico, that's the reason.
True, but Mexican hoe money (tajadero de cobre) was copper and used before the Europeans arrived, along with cacao seeds.
1817 Mexico 8 Reales with a significantly repositioned first digit in the date. I first picked up an example of this obverse die as part of the PLVS VLTRA sale that consequently graded AU58 at our hosts (without variety attribution). The new example comes from eBay and seems to be a different die marriage with a different reverse die. First one below is the new coin, the second one is the one I already had in the collection:
Anyone here aware whether or not PCGS recognizes Rudman pedigree on their labels?
I crossed a couple pieces (NGC → PCGS) from his collection and requested that pedigree be added and it was not, despite supporting evidence from auction houses. Wondering if I have to press harder or if such efforts would be all for naught. The collective wisdom of the community here is appreciated in advance.
The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.
Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.
I do not know how many of the error medals exist, but they are extremely rare or perhaps this one is unique. The regular version is scarce and exists both in silver and bronze.
@pruebas said:
The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.
Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.
The Peso in the Porfirio Diaz times, was 1 to 1 with the dollar, when he left was a 50 cents or in other words 2x1
Since 1994 plus or minus Peso lost a 1000%, so 1000 Pesos went or converted to 1 Peso... That in one day.
Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.
@pruebas said:
The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.
Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.
Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.
I believe it was a simple mistake. An American firm doing a medal in Spanish. I think American Banknote Company occasionally made similar mistakes on banknotes for Latin America.
Héroe is a Spanish masculine noun. If the legend was meant to say "To the hero of peace," the corrected legend would be correct. The error legend has the gender of the noun incorrect as well it's missing the preposition "to." It simply says "The hero of peace" with the incorrect gender of hero.
If I were paying Tiffany the huge sum they most likely were asking for such a medal to be made, I would want it correct too. But I am surprised Tiffany released the mistake(s). Maybe that was a sample meant for the official who requested it's manufacture?
@pruebas said:
The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.
Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.
Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.
I believe it was a simple mistake. An American firm doing a medal in Spanish. I think American Banknote Company occasionally made similar mistakes on banknotes for Latin America.
Héroe is a Spanish masculine noun. If the legend was meant to say "To the hero of peace," the corrected legend would be correct. The error legend has the gender of the noun incorrect as well it's missing the preposition "to." It simply says "The hero of peace" with the incorrect gender of hero.
If I were paying Tiffany the huge sum they most likely were asking for such a medal to be made, I would want it correct too. But I am surprised Tiffany released the mistake(s). Maybe that was a sample meant for the official who requested it's manufacture?
Yeah, I’ll confirm that. “Al Héroe” means, literally “To the hero” “A” means “to” “El” means “the” and “héroe” means “hero.” In Spanish when you put “A”and “El” next to each other it becomes a combined word “Al.” If it were a female hero you’d say “A La heroína” because the “A” and “La” don’t combine because there’s a consonante between the vowels, unlike the masculine version. A female hero is a completely different word. “La Héroe” is just plain wrong. Wrong gender with the incorrect gender word. It’s an understandable mistake, probably some simple dyslexic switch, but clearly the one designing and approving the coin didn’t know Spanish, it’s a painfully obvious error to anyone who actually speaks the language.
I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.
@ELuis said:
I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.
What I meant is that the official in Chihuahua who requested it most likely got this exact medal and wrote to Tiffany to have it corrected (making this piece a pattern). I doubt Diaz saw it until it was perfect (exactly for the reason you state)!
@ELuis said:
I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.
What I meant is that the official in Chihuahua who requested it most likely got this exact medal and wrote to Tiffany to have it corrected (making this piece a pattern). I doubt Diaz saw it until it was perfect (exactly for the reason you state)!
No problem at all Pruebas .
And i got it - Nice pair of medals for sure as the many other coins you have posted here, so far.
A new addition for me, the 1773 Mexico 1/2 Real - variety with inverted assayer and mint mark.
This coin is actually a top pop for this variety at both TPG's, however currently at PCGS there is an incorrectly entered Standard 1773 1/2R with normal mm and assayer initials in MS64 that is throwing off the pop report.
Not a big deal for most people I realize but this variety is less frequently encountered than the standard variety.
For comparison, there are a total of 23 of the normal variety + 1 (incorrectly entered to the wrong PCGS#) for a total of 24 at PCGS.
Then there are 23 over at NGC.
For a combined total of 47 coins (Standard Variety).
Conversely, the inverted variety has a (proper) total of 3 at PCGS and 5 at NGC for a total of 8 altogether.
With this one below being the sole mint state example at either service.
Comments
@Euclid I think they are rare enough that this was not a bad decision.
@Euclid I don’t think so. If you were certifying a $40 1942 US quarter, of which there are literally millions…maybe not such a good idea, but this is wholesome and rare. I have a coin I just bought for less than a hundred dollars, but there’s only three known at the moment. I will definitely certify it, if for no other reason than to have it recognized in the census. The world should know of its existence. I mean, not many people care about it right now, but it’s rare…it should be certified in my opinion. I think things that are valuable should be certified, not all value equates to monetary cost.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Thank you both. I was feeling a bit of sticker shock after paying the grading invoice but I feel better now
One of a half-dozen gold coins I bought earlier this year for 10% or 20% above melt. This one was $100 out the door.
How it started:
How it ended:
--Severian the Lame
Fantastic! Did the others do similarly well?
Edited to add: now I see the Guatemalan did not.
Gracias.
Yepper. Except for that damned Guatemalan piece I asked about just now.
--Severian the Lame
@Weiss wow
Even a broken clock is right a couple of times a day
One of a couple of Maximilian Tokens the dealer threw in for literally a few dollars. This one listed by Locke as "Aztec Indian #1". Didn't get it slabbed, but super happy to have it in the collection. The reverse is the Aztec calendar:
http://www.calgoldcoin.com/oldhtml/mexico.htm
--Severian the Lame
Ten Cuauhtémocs I picked up at a local shop last month.
The most brilliant '47 is engraved: TIA ELENA above the eagle
--Severian the Lame
Not as colorful as the eye appealing AU58 that @EASilver recently posted. However, I am pleased to report this recent addition of the 1789 Charles IV 8R with the bust of Charles III in AU55 which completes a three-year set of Charles IV (1789 - 1790).
An easy and relatively ignored set which has, surprisingly, gone unchallenged since 2018; To my surprise, I already had two of the three required in inventory, both dated 1790.
Better to be a big fish in a little pond, than a little fish in a big one.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mexican-milled-coinage/mexican-colonial-coinage/mexican-charles-iv-bust-iii-8-reales-circulation-strikes-1789-1790/4783
This Thursday I'm posting a photo of what once had to be a beautiful proof-like peso, ruined by a wipe or eraser. 😢 Under a diffuse light source it's still a pretty coin. I purchased this coin decades ago from Richard Long, and more recently have been looking for a replacement for my Mexican type collection.
@EASilver it's really tough to find a presentable, straight-graded, Balance Scale Peso for a type coin. Surprisingly tough. But as many experienced Mexican numismatists know, the decimal series, in general, is very difficult with many "hidden" rarities.
Here is my Thursday addition from the recent Syd Martin sale. Mr. Martin had three of these Mexican 2 Maravedis and I was able to buy the two I didn't have.
These are very rare coins and the first one below may be the only straight-graded example known. It brought over $10k in a Sedwick sale a few years ago when Mr. Martin purchased it. Fortunately, I bought it for roughly a quarter of that price, which I think was a steal.
Granted, they aren't "sexy" or much to look at....
I now have three of the four known types of these in my collection.
The new additions:
This one was already in my collection:
Edited to add: I just found a straight-graded VG in the PCGS Census, so mine is the second straight-graded example (F15). NGC doesn't show any graded at all.
@pruebas
Very nice, I appreciate the absolute rarity, I’ve been looking at these ever since I saw you post one a while back. I have seen a couple 4 Maravedís, but they seem to be much more common.
Really cool coins!
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Thanks @SimonW.
Yes, the 2M are much rarer than the 4M. But they have less demand.
Legend has that the native Mexican peoples (the “Indians”) threw these coppers into Lake Texcoco since they didn’t want to accept copper instead of silver. Not sure how true that is, but perhaps it’s why they are so rare as probably many were minted.
The Nesmith book (1955, reprinted 1978) is the best reference for these.
Of course, if these ugly things were all I collected, I would probably stop collecting. But a few added to an otherwise nice collection makes it more well-rounded, don’t you think?
Congratulations, @pruebas ! Lot 112 is Nesmith 2a, and the plate coin. Very rare, and a very important coin. Thank you for sharing these significant acquisitions, and your impressive set. Let's hope for four in '24!
Pursuing Charles & Joanna, especially Early Series
The story makes them even more interesting. I like ‘em! Of course beauty is always in the eye of the beholder…but I don’t think anyone would ever accuse you of collecting ugly coins.
One day someone will find a small hoard of these I’m sure. One will grade as uncirculated and it’ll find its way to you. That’s when I’ll buy one. That’s what I did with the Greek Attica. 😁
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
There are virtually no copper colonial coins from any mint. Outside of Chile, I don't know if other Latin countries have large copper reserves and if so, this had anything to do with it. Or maybe silver was just so common in Mexico, that's the reason.
Thanks @Onward.
Pedigree chain for the PCGS F15 coin above:
Busser Collection, formed before 1955 and sold by Superior in 1974
[possibly other collections]
Potomac Collection, sold by Sedwick in 2020
Syd Martin Collection, sold by Stacks Bowers in 2024
@pruebas Collection
And yes, it is the plate coin for Nesmith-2a in his 1955 book.
For those unaware, these coins were minted around 1540-1560, so less than 100 years after European colonization of the New World (excluding the brief Norsemen/Viking settlements).
True, but Mexican hoe money (tajadero de cobre) was copper and used before the Europeans arrived, along with cacao seeds.
Here's a neat pick-up and a triple win:
8 Reales Madness Collection
Another recent variety pick-up:
1817 Mexico 8 Reales with a significantly repositioned first digit in the date. I first picked up an example of this obverse die as part of the PLVS VLTRA sale that consequently graded AU58 at our hosts (without variety attribution). The new example comes from eBay and seems to be a different die marriage with a different reverse die. First one below is the new coin, the second one is the one I already had in the collection:
Here's a close-up:
8 Reales Madness Collection
Ex. MrEureka, Rudman & Bidask
Latin American Collection
That is a really beautiful coin there, Sir!
Well, just Love coins, period.
It has a fingerprints? If it does, does not take out any of the beauty of the coin.
I don't usually do the show and tell thing but this one is fun...
That's awesome @realeswatcher !
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
That is hilarious.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Latin American Collection
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Just got this one two days ago from one of my recent buys.
Edit: posted also on my some of new additions discussion.
Beautiful @ELuis
Jamaican Rarity, ex-Rudman
1914 Halfpenny in MS65:
Well, just Love coins, period.
Common coins, but such an elegant design. Love seeing the gold and silver together (64 and 62 , respectively).
Anyone here aware whether or not PCGS recognizes Rudman pedigree on their labels?
I crossed a couple pieces (NGC → PCGS) from his collection and requested that pedigree be added and it was not, despite supporting evidence from auction houses. Wondering if I have to press harder or if such efforts would be all for naught. The collective wisdom of the community here is appreciated in advance.
Haven't tried (and I only have three Rudman pieces anyway). They really can be difficult at times, even with SEVERE documentation...
Well, just Love coins, period.
Senorita Libertad looks to have gained a few pounds going to gold! Thanks for sharing.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Thanks much.
Overlooked one yr type
Latin American Collection
.
The below medals were made by Tiffany for the State of Chihuahua to honor (Mexican) President Porfirio Diaz.
Apparently, an error was made in the legend (LA HEROE instead of AL HEROE) and one or more error medals got released. You would think this would be caught in the pattern stage, but apparently not, as both are struck in silver.
I do not know how many of the error medals exist, but they are extremely rare or perhaps this one is unique. The regular version is scarce and exists both in silver and bronze.
Error legend:
Corrected legend:
The Peso in the Porfirio Diaz times, was 1 to 1 with the dollar, when he left was a 50 cents or in other words 2x1
Since 1994 plus or minus Peso lost a 1000%, so 1000 Pesos went or converted to 1 Peso... That in one day.
Back to this medal, wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then.
I believe it was a simple mistake. An American firm doing a medal in Spanish. I think American Banknote Company occasionally made similar mistakes on banknotes for Latin America.
Héroe is a Spanish masculine noun. If the legend was meant to say "To the hero of peace," the corrected legend would be correct. The error legend has the gender of the noun incorrect as well it's missing the preposition "to." It simply says "The hero of peace" with the incorrect gender of hero.
If I were paying Tiffany the huge sum they most likely were asking for such a medal to be made, I would want it correct too. But I am surprised Tiffany released the mistake(s). Maybe that was a sample meant for the official who requested it's manufacture?
Yeah, I’ll confirm that. “Al Héroe” means, literally “To the hero” “A” means “to” “El” means “the” and “héroe” means “hero.” In Spanish when you put “A”and “El” next to each other it becomes a combined word “Al.” If it were a female hero you’d say “A La heroína” because the “A” and “La” don’t combine because there’s a consonante between the vowels, unlike the masculine version. A female hero is a completely different word. “La Héroe” is just plain wrong. Wrong gender with the incorrect gender word. It’s an understandable mistake, probably some simple dyslexic switch, but clearly the one designing and approving the coin didn’t know Spanish, it’s a painfully obvious error to anyone who actually speaks the language.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I added this 'wonder what happen to the guy that did that error back then' Because by that period called 'Porfiriato' he was a Dictador - in English Dictator.
@ELuis I didn't intend to insult your Spanish
What I meant is that the official in Chihuahua who requested it most likely got this exact medal and wrote to Tiffany to have it corrected (making this piece a pattern). I doubt Diaz saw it until it was perfect (exactly for the reason you state)!
No problem at all Pruebas
.
And i got it - Nice pair of medals for sure as the many other coins you have posted here, so far.
A new addition for me, the 1773 Mexico 1/2 Real - variety with inverted assayer and mint mark.
This coin is actually a top pop for this variety at both TPG's, however currently at PCGS there is an incorrectly entered Standard 1773 1/2R with normal mm and assayer initials in MS64 that is throwing off the pop report.
Not a big deal for most people I realize but this variety is less frequently encountered than the standard variety.
For comparison, there are a total of 23 of the normal variety + 1 (incorrectly entered to the wrong PCGS#) for a total of 24 at PCGS.
Then there are 23 over at NGC.
For a combined total of 47 coins (Standard Variety).
Conversely, the inverted variety has a (proper) total of 3 at PCGS and 5 at NGC for a total of 8 altogether.
With this one below being the sole mint state example at either service.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Paid too much, but I added this one
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Beautiful @JohnnyCache