Ukraine may dictate the metals markets for a few weeks.
MGLICKER
Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
45,000,000 have no government. On the other hand, they have no insurance mandate either!
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I see this as another Arab Spring for them. The Ukrainians see how corrupt their government is and Putin fears it will spill over to Russia. Both countries are being run by the mob. Ukrainian's former President lived very opulently and now is being hunted for war crimes.
Putin Outfoxes Ukrainian Protestors
Box of 20
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>It's all about who controls natural gas pipelines to europe. >>
10 4.
Civil War may be inevitable or better yet, a break up into 2 separate Nations. Half the country is allied to Russia and the other half to Ukraine.
<< <i>I hope our troops are headed there too. Time put Putin in his place. I notice it not being shown much on fluff TV any more. Don't want get the working poor riled up
Why on earth would you want our government to send troops to yet another foreign country to get involved in yet another war that we don't belong in. Put Putin in his place? Nuclear armed nation don't put each other in their place. That gets a little dangerous for pretty much the whole world.
My Lithuanian buddy and I were talking about it the other day too. He thinks we'll see this stuff here soon enough. I doubted it as we throw EBT/food stamp cards all over the place here...fat fed folks are less prone to revolution.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
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<< <i>I hope our troops are headed there too. Time put Putin in his place. I notice it not being shown much on fluff TV any more. Don't want get the working poor riled up
Why on earth would you want our government to send troops to yet another foreign country to get involved in yet another war that we don't belong in. Put Putin in his place? Nuclear armed nation don't put each other in their place. That gets a little dangerous for pretty much the whole world
. >>
And get involved in another civil war?
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<< <i>I hope our troops are headed there too. Time put Putin in his place. I notice it not being shown much on fluff TV any more. Don't want get the working poor riled up
Why on earth would you want our government to send troops to yet another foreign country to get involved in yet another war that we don't belong in. Put Putin in his place? Nuclear armed nation don't put each other in their place. That gets a little dangerous for pretty much the whole world
. >>
And get involved in another civil war? >>
Besides the Ukraine is what Russia considers its own backyard. I don't think we would take too kindly to the Russian government sending troop into Mexico. It's best if we keep our noses out of this one. We have no business there, it's a european problem and should stay that way. Maybe the spineless French, German, or British governments should send their troops there.
As far as our Military being downsized to pre WW2 levels, do you think congress will allow that? The United States agenda has always been built around the military complex in my opinion.
governments and black marketers intrude just when the people plea for help. When they revolt, the government fires upon them. Where there is diplomacy, there is governance…. speaking to governance. Govern yourselves. Buy some silver or gold. If you need guns, you'll also need to get the lead. Steel, powder , projectiles … a waste of life and no point in diplomacy.
We live in a shocking environment. On the one side: Peace makers. On the other: War mongers.
<< <i>What determines the gold price >>
Excellent write-up.
I knew it would happen.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
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<< <i>
<< <i>I hope our troops are headed there too. Time put Putin in his place. I notice it not being shown much on fluff TV any more. Don't want get the working poor riled up
Why on earth would you want our government to send troops to yet another foreign country to get involved in yet another war that we don't belong in. Put Putin in his place? Nuclear armed nation don't put each other in their place. That gets a little dangerous for pretty much the whole world
. >>
And get involved in another civil war? >>
Besides the Ukraine is what Russia considers its own backyard. I don't think we would take too kindly to the Russian government sending troop into Mexico. It's best if we keep our noses out of this one. We have no business there, it's a european problem and should stay that way. Maybe the spineless French, German, or British governments should send their troops there. >>
The Russians consider Ukraine to be within their sphere of influence. Remember how certain European powers went into Mexico while the U.S. was occupied with the Civil War and set up an "Emperor of Mexico" in violation of the Monroe Doctrine? We would have gone in and thrown him out after the War if the Mexicans weren't already well on the way to doing so themselves.
As we speak, unidentified troops are seizing airports and government buildings within the Crimea. Russia denies involvement, but I don't believe them. I doubt anybody else does.
The question remains, how much of Ukraine is Russia going to claw back, and how much force are they willing to use to do it?
<< <i>The question remains, how much of Ukraine is Russia going to claw back, and how much force are they willing to use to do it? >>
KGB Putin is a pivotal character with leaning toward the old Soviet Union. Little doubt that he will seize control of the Ukraine.
Maybe go sideways. (for a change
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Yup. And then gold and silver will... what?
Maybe go sideways. (for a change
What ever happened to the fortune tellers that predicted "gold would go through the roof" when Greece and Spain had financial meltdowns or North Korea did their annual saber rattling a year or so ago .....I'm still waiting
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<< <i>Yup. And then gold and silver will... what?
Maybe go sideways. (for a change
What ever happened to the fortune tellers that predicted "gold would go through the roof" when Greece and Spain had financial meltdowns or North Korea did their annual saber rattling a year or so ago .....I'm still waiting
It did kind of go through the roof. $265 to $1800 plus is a strong move.
Some real casualties though from the talk radio coin scammers that sold near bullion pieces at 40% premiums at the market top.
Two sides to the gold coin - long term gain or long term loss. Choose your side, but you'd be smart to consider the long term picture of the dollar.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
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<< <i>
<< <i>Yup. And then gold and silver will... what?
Maybe go sideways. (for a change
What ever happened to the fortune tellers that predicted "gold would go through the roof" when Greece and Spain had financial meltdowns or North Korea did their annual saber rattling a year or so ago .....I'm still waiting
It did kind of go through the roof. $265 to $1800 plus is a strong move.
Some real casualties though from the talk radio coin scammers that sold near bullion pieces at 40% premiums at the market top. >>
You are confused with your "moves"
The Greek, Spain & N. Korea incidents all occurred after 2011
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yup. And then gold and silver will... what?
Maybe go sideways. (for a change
What ever happened to the fortune tellers that predicted "gold would go through the roof" when Greece and Spain had financial meltdowns or North Korea did their annual saber rattling a year or so ago .....I'm still waiting
It did kind of go through the roof. $265 to $1800 plus is a strong move.
Some real casualties though from the talk radio coin scammers that sold near bullion pieces at 40% premiums at the market top. >>
You are confused with your "moves"
The Greek, Spain & N. Korea incidents all occurred after 2011 >>
Point was, it did go through the roof. Expecting another strong move after a seven plus fold appreciation would be quite ambitious.
<< <i>Well if we don't stand for helping - free people that need our help - what do we stand for? Makes 100% more sense to me to help Ukrainian's than Iraq & Afghanistan. Sounds to me yall scared of Russians? >>
It's very rarely about helping others. If that were true we would be in conflict all over Africa. Seems our help is needed only in places that can turn someone a profit. What scares me is the ease with which others would sacrifice our sons and daughters.
Google Gen. Smedley Butler
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>What scares me is the ease with which others would sacrifice our sons and daughters. >>
Especially when the US prosecution of wars have become PC and non lethal, except in the hands of the enemy which carries no rule books.
<< <i>I sure admire their desire. Putin will exterminate them if we do nothing but lip service
I don't see Putin exterminating anybody. The majority of the people that live in the eastern half of the country are ethnic Russians and they speak Russian as their first language. They actually want the Russians there. The best solution is probably to split the country in half. Let the eastern half be aligned with Russia and the western half with europe. It lets the Russians save face and it also allows the west to claim a partial victory. Also please deprogram yourself from all the cold war propaganda(Russians bad guys, Americans good guys). It's not that black and white there are considerable shades of gray.
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<< <i>I sure admire their desire. Putin will exterminate them if we do nothing but lip service
I don't see Putin exterminating anybody. The majority of the people that live in the eastern half of the country are ethnic Russians and they speak Russian as their first language. They actually want the Russians there. The best solution is probably to split the country in half. Let the eastern half be aligned with Russia and the western half with europe. It lets the Russians save face and it also allows the west to claim a partial victory. Also please deprogram yourself from all the cold war propaganda(Russians bad guys, Americans good guys). It's not that black and white there are considerable shades of gray. >>
This is the solution. Of course the gas pipelines will determine where they actually draw the line.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Your going to have wars. Life aint all love & peace. I don't trust nun them we need show back bone & support Ukraine. >>
Granted, but the last war that we had to fight was WWII. Everything else since then has been a war of choice. Tell me how what happens in the Ukraine has anything to do with US national security. If Ukraine becomes a Russian puppet state again does that mean we can expect Russian troops to storm the beaches of LA or NY anytime soon? Highly doubtful, so why should we get involved? What does spending trillions of dollars that we don't have or wasting thousands of American lives accomplish? It accomplishes nothing for our national security, all it does is enrich the defense contractors at the expense of the American taxpayer. To keep this precious metals related, wars cause gold prices to rise because the loser in a war almost always sees the value of its currency and especially its debt obligations fall precipitously and since wars between large nations like the US and Russia have an uncertain outcome, PM prices will rise. If it comes to that.
Top dog cant pick & choose his battles. We got KA in every one
Patton
<< <i>I can see we are from different generations. The cost for freedom ain't free. How can we not afford to help them in the eyes of the world.
Top dog cant pick & choose his battles. We got KA in every one
Patton >>
Pretty easy to send someone else's kid. Would it be any different if your's had to go first?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I can see we are from different generations. The cost for freedom ain't free. How can we not afford to help them in the eyes of the world.
Top dog cant pick & choose his battles. We got KA in every one
Patton >>
If the freedom of the Ukranian people mean that much to you, then by all means grab a rifle and go fight for their freedom.
<< <i>I can see we are from different generations. The cost for freedom ain't free. How can we not afford to help them in the eyes of the world.
Top dog cant pick & choose his battles. We got KA in every one
Patton >>
Top tax rate is 13% in Russia with no Obamacare. Not sure who is tallying the cost of freedom these days.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can see we are from different generations. The cost for freedom ain't free. How can we not afford to help them in the eyes of the world.
Top dog cant pick & choose his battles. We got KA in every one
Patton >>
Pretty easy to send someone else's kid. Would it be any different if your's had to go first? >>
Or grand kids in a civil war where half the population would be considered our enemy.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I can see we are from different generations. The cost for freedom ain't free. How can we not afford to help them in the eyes of the world.
Top dog cant pick & choose his battles. We got KA in every one
Patton >>
Pretty easy to send someone else's kid. Would it be any different if your's had to go first? >>
Or grand kids in a civil war where half the population would be considered our enemy.
And the other side is Russia?!?
Uh, no thanks.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
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<< <i>
<< <i>I sure admire their desire. Putin will exterminate them if we do nothing but lip service
I don't see Putin exterminating anybody. The majority of the people that live in the eastern half of the country are ethnic Russians and they speak Russian as their first language. They actually want the Russians there. The best solution is probably to split the country in half. Let the eastern half be aligned with Russia and the western half with europe. It lets the Russians save face and it also allows the west to claim a partial victory. Also please deprogram yourself from all the cold war propaganda(Russians bad guys, Americans good guys). It's not that black and white there are considerable shades of gray. >>
This is the solution. Of course the gas pipelines will determine where they actually draw the line. >>
Couldn't agree more. It's also usually the best solution in most civil wars, and the one they eventually go with (Korea, Vietnam) , and should also be applied to Iraq, Afghanistan, and we should stay out of this one except to answer if our opinion is asked where to draw the map line.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
To address another point - many of the more recent conflicts the US has fought might better be defined as religious civil wars. Iraq, Boznia, Somalia, Afghanistan etc. Many ongoing conflicts like Syria fall into this category also. Ukraine and Russia are not fighting over ideology. Russia is looking to seize control of strategic geography (deep water ports and military installations in Crimea and natural resources like coal, steel, and nat gas), farmland (approximately 1/3-1/2 of all grain consumed in Russia is produced in Eastern Ukraine), heavy industry, and the revenue stream they receive from the corrupt puppet government they installed. Look at history in the region over the last 100 or so years - Russia has been bleeding Ukraine since 1917 - orchestrated famine, forced resettlement, imprisonment, execution, or extreme hardship (gulags) of those who championed Ukrainian culture, etc. They nearly succeeded in poisoning the last western leaning democratically elected president! What Russia wants, it takes.
Who did the Ukrainian protesters fight - the Russian government backed police! Not other Ukrainians. This is not a civil conflict. The unfortunate thing is that Ukraine is outgunned and will be overtaken without help. As Obama wags his finger professional Russian military forces have already seized the critical infrastructure needed for a large scale invasion. From what I see on TV Ukrainians want the same freedoms you and I take for granted every day. Maybe US/NATO support is not warranted, maybe it is, but I think it would be a mistake for America and Europe not to somehow support the Ukrainian people in their fight.
To keep this PM related, the Ukrainian people have faced the prospect of a completely defunct fiat currency at least 4 times in the last 100 years. Most recently their currency was completely replaced in 1992 after the collapse of the USSR. Every penny of savings completely lost. Now the hryvnia is at risk of complete collapse. If you think that kind of thing cant happen here, think again.
<< <i>To me, this seems like a solution executive political leadership in America is most likely to support. Its a terrible idea though. What would America do if Mexico had a strong government/military and reasserted its sovereignty over S California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, and Colorado on the basis that the majority of the people in some of those places speak Spanish as a primary language? Would we tolerate breaking off the southwestern tier of the US because some people there continue to immerse themselves in the culture of their homeland versus assimilating?
To address another point - many of the more recent conflicts the US has fought might better be defined as religious civil wars. Iraq, Boznia, Somalia, Afghanistan etc. Many ongoing conflicts like Syria fall into this category also. Ukraine and Russia are not fighting over ideology. Russia is looking to seize control of strategic geography (deep water ports and military installations in Crimea and natural resources like coal, steel, and nat gas), farmland (approximately 1/3-1/2 of all grain consumed in Russia is produced in Eastern Ukraine), heavy industry, and the revenue stream they receive from the corrupt puppet government they installed. Look at history in the region over the last 100 or so years - Russia has been bleeding Ukraine since 1917 - orchestrated famine, forced resettlement, imprisonment, execution, or extreme hardship (gulags) of those who championed Ukrainian culture, etc. They nearly succeeded in poisoning the last western leaning democratically elected president! What Russia wants, it takes.
Who did the Ukrainian protesters fight - the Russian government backed police! Not other Ukrainians. This is not a civil conflict. The unfortunate thing is that Ukraine is outgunned and will be overtaken without help. As Obama wags his finger professional Russian military forces have already seized the critical infrastructure needed for a large scale invasion. From what I see on TV Ukrainians want the same freedoms you and I take for granted every day. Maybe US/NATO support is not warranted, maybe it is, but I think it would be a mistake for America and Europe not to somehow support the Ukrainian people in their fight.
To keep this PM related, the Ukrainian people have faced the prospect of a completely defunct fiat currency at least 4 times in the last 100 years. Most recently their currency was completely replaced in 1992 after the collapse of the USSR. Every penny of savings completely lost. Now the hryvnia is at risk of complete collapse. If you think that kind of thing cant happen here, think again. >>
+1 Amen brother
<< <i>To me, this seems like a solution executive political leadership in America is most likely to support. Its a terrible idea though. What would America do if Mexico had a strong government/military and reasserted its sovereignty over S California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, and Colorado on the basis that the majority of the people in some of those places speak Spanish as a primary language? Would we tolerate breaking off the southwestern tier of the US because some people there continue to immerse themselves in the culture of their homeland versus assimilating?
To address another point - many of the more recent conflicts the US has fought might better be defined as religious civil wars. Iraq, Boznia, Somalia, Afghanistan etc. Many ongoing conflicts like Syria fall into this category also. Ukraine and Russia are not fighting over ideology. Russia is looking to seize control of strategic geography (deep water ports and military installations in Crimea and natural resources like coal, steel, and nat gas), farmland (approximately 1/3-1/2 of all grain consumed in Russia is produced in Eastern Ukraine), heavy industry, and the revenue stream they receive from the corrupt puppet government they installed. Look at history in the region over the last 100 or so years - Russia has been bleeding Ukraine since 1917 - orchestrated famine, forced resettlement, imprisonment, execution, or extreme hardship (gulags) of those who championed Ukrainian culture, etc. They nearly succeeded in poisoning the last western leaning democratically elected president! What Russia wants, it takes.
Who did the Ukrainian protesters fight - the Russian government backed police! Not other Ukrainians. This is not a civil conflict. The unfortunate thing is that Ukraine is outgunned and will be overtaken without help. As Obama wags his finger professional Russian military forces have already seized the critical infrastructure needed for a large scale invasion. From what I see on TV Ukrainians want the same freedoms you and I take for granted every day. Maybe US/NATO support is not warranted, maybe it is, but I think it would be a mistake for America and Europe not to somehow support the Ukrainian people in their fight.
To keep this PM related, the Ukrainian people have faced the prospect of a completely defunct fiat currency at least 4 times in the last 100 years. Most recently their currency was completely replaced in 1992 after the collapse of the USSR. Every penny of savings completely lost. Now the hryvnia is at risk of complete collapse. If you think that kind of thing cant happen here, think again. >>
You forgot to mention:
"A significant minority of the population of Ukraine are Russians or use Russian as their first language. Russian influence is particularly strong in the industrialised east, as well as in Crimea, an autonomous republic on the Black Sea which was part of Russia until 1954. The Russian Black Sea Fleet is based there."
Impact on the metals markets will be minimal. Afterall, its the evil banksters that control prices, right?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Russia gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. They want it back.
Impact on the metals markets will be minimal. Afterall, its the evil banksters that control prices, right? >>
You are correct on the minimal impact part. Unless of course a war that draws in the US or other european countries occurs. That could be very destabilizing for the participants currencies.
"A significant minority of the population of Ukraine are Russians or use Russian as their first language. Russian influence is particularly strong in the industrialised east, as well as in Crimea, an autonomous republic on the Black Sea which was part of Russia until 1954. The Russian Black Sea Fleet is based there."
The English-speaking population is outnumbered by those who speak Spanish in Miami, Florida... does that mean Cuba has a right to claim Miami Dade County for their own?
It's a very extreme analogy but Hitler annexed German-speaking Austria in 1938 (the Anschluss) partly using the same justification.
The real sad question to ask is why so many Ukrainians have adopted Russian as a first language. I'll link to the lengthy and well supported articles below but in summary - "Russia conducted a policy of Russification of Ukraine from 1709 to 1991. The Russification of Ukraine was a body of laws, decrees, and other actions undertaken by the Imperial Russian and later Soviet authorities to strengthen Russian national, political and linguistic positions in Ukraine. Russification policy was more intense in Ukraine than in other parts of the Soviet Union, and the country now contains the largest group of Russian speakers who are not ethnically Russian: as of 2009, there were about 5.5 million Ukrainians whose first language was Russian. Russian speakers are more prevalent in the southeastern half of the country, while both Ukrainian and Russian are used equally in the center, and Ukrainian dominates in the west."
Regardless, the Russian Federation is under no threat from Ukraine. I'm not sure how Russia's aggression can be defined as anything but a show of dominance at best and an act of war at worst. It also violates several international protocols and more specifically the Trilateral Statement of 1994, which was signed by Russia, the US, and Ukraine after Ukraine agreed to dismantle it's nuclear arsenal - the third largest in the world at the time - after securing written security assurances from those two nations. Obviously that promise was as good as gold.
The world is watching to see how the US, EU, and the IMF respond, but Ukraine itself has the second largest professional army after Russia in that part of the world, with some experience supporting recent US foreign operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. If they this develops into a military conflict I imagine gold prices will go up in response, at least for a little bit. Although highly unlikely, Canada also has the 3rd largest population of people of Ukrainian origin after Ukraine and Russia and may be persuaded to mediate.
Russification of Ukraine
Russification