Until she made that stupid comment she would have been one of the more preferable candidates as far as being able to negotiate with the Russians - it was her gas deal with Gazprom that got her put in jail in Ukraine.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
Finally the western media is catching up with the mobilising of troops on the Ukraine Russia border - note I was posting about this more than a week ago. Obama is making some pretty bold, but empty threats if Russia rolls into the rest of Ukraine.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>Finally the western media is catching up with the mobilising of troops on the Ukraine Russia border - note I was posting about this more than a week ago. Obama is making some pretty bold, but empty threats if Russia rolls into the rest of Ukraine. >>
Its been known for over a week about the Russians massing at the border, Obama stated its their right as they are on Russian Soil LOL
Again aside from empty sanctions there is not much we can do about this, I for one dont want the United States sending troops to that region and as cold as this may sound its Ukrains problem NOT the United States, personally I think deep down Obama thinks the same way and is acting the way he is for that very reason.
Ukraine is not Nato Ukraine would not assist us if we were under attack in Europe or home Ukraine is cursed by geography
Its been known for over a week about the Russians massing at the border, Obama stated its their right as they are on Russian Soil LOL
Again aside from empty sanctions there is not much we can do about this, I for one dont want the United States sending troops to that region and as cold as this may sound its Ukrains problem NOT the United States, personally I think deep down Obama thinks the same way and is acting the way he is for that very reason.
Ukraine is not Nato Ukraine would not assist us if we were under attack in Europe or home Ukraine is cursed by geography >>
I agree with you and quite frankly aside from some of the Tymoschenko nutwhacks Ukrainians really do not want American help. And don't expect the Germans or French to assist the USA if it were attacked by a viable foreign military power. The whole NATO alliance is a farce. Aside from Great Britain, Poland and Canada - where the USA has strong historical or emotional ties - forget it.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
Just wait until the IMF loans strings hit the population - ie much higher gas prices, no food price supports etc. Maybe building owners will not keep the heat at a balmy 90' setting in the winter for now on. I can tell you that when I have lived there in the winter when you have no heat control in your particular apartment - that it is set for the building, you can literally roast. Nothing like having to keep the windows cracked open just to be able to breathe.
That was the one area where I showed my N. American upbringing, I was usually underdressed by Ukrainian/Russian standards, and little old babushkas never had a problem telling me that I was going to freeze - when in fact I was quite comfortable wearing short pants and teeshirts on 90' summer days.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
I visited a few friends in Poland during winter who lived in the old "communist style" apartment buildings, and, true, it was hotter than Hades in most them.
Donchane! British brothers! A decisive moment! ONLY YOU DECIDE WHERE TO LIVE YOUR CHILDREN, and in what language they will speak! As you know, Yuzivka ("Donetsk") native English town, founded by the great industrialist Englishman - John Hughes.
Yuzivka REFERENDUM OF RETURN ("Donetsk") of the UK: Come back! Donetsk - English town! 5,017 59.7% Donetsk should receive broad autonomy to regional English. 1,333 15.9% Leave everything as is. Should not stir up the story ... 1,011 12% Kokoku DANETSK manual ultrasonic inspection Goradil Cudahy-TAX-TAX! 11 1,045 12.4% Get code poll 8,406 people voted.
Now that Russia has sent it's political tourists into E. Ukraine and they have stirred up trouble - the Russians are starting to make demands of the Ukrainian government and may well move their estimated 80k army into the E. If that happens there will be a military conflict, maybe short but violent.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>Putin sadly has free reign as the leader of the free world laments over his NCAA brackets. >>
Azerbaijan is getting a bit antsy about Russia having troops so close over the border in Armenia. Azerbaijan has been a significant player in selling oil and piping it west while bypassing Russia. Russia doesn't like that. Even Kazakhstan is getting nervous because Russia has the Baikonur space launch facility and may well want to make that Russian territory.
Curiously the whole Ukraine thing has driven a bit of a wedge between Putin and Belarus' Lukashenko - everybody that has Russia nearby is getting nervous - Lukashenko wanted to rebuild the USSR - but on his terms - not Putin's.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry accused Russian agents and special forces on Tuesday of stirring separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to prepare for military action as it had in Crimea. >>
<< <i>(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry accused Russian agents and special forces on Tuesday of stirring separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to prepare for military action as it had in Crimea. >>
Ya think, John? >>
He just got the memo. The present administration in the US seems to be behind in notifications of world events. I wouldn't be totally gobsmacked to find out that Barack Obama just heard about the Malaysian plane disappearing.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>Ukraine may dictate the metals markets for a few weeks >>
It's been almost 2 month...and those of us that answered ...NO, which btw was most of us, we get to keep our crystal balls Those that answered YES...time to resume taking your anti paranoia medication.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Ukraine may dictate the metals markets for a few weeks >>
It's been almost 2 month...and those of us that answered ...NO, which btw was most of us, we get to keep our crystal balls Those that answered YES...time to resume taking your anti paranoia medication. >>
I dunno. I think we had a pretty good discussion here. I learned quite a bit from SaorAlba and many of the other posters.
I suspect that we are in the early chapters of this conflict and not the end.
"""(Reuters) - The White House on Saturday warned Russia against further military action in Ukraine after armed separatists seized government offices in the eastern city of Slaviansk, saying the situation was reminiscent of what recently happened in Crimea.
"We are very concerned by the concerted campaign we see underway in eastern Ukraine today by pro-Russian separatists, apparently with support from Russia, who are inciting violence and sabotage and seeking to undermine and destabilize the Ukrainian state," said Laura Lucas Magnuson, a spokeswoman for the White House National Security Council."""
It looks like Russia is going to fund and support so called "Pro Russian Supporters" which in reality is probably Russian Troops with the Russian Flag ripped off their uniforms, either way I hope the United States stays out of it in military terms and Russia is satisfied with what they already have in place.
<< <i>It looks like Russia is going to fund and support so called "Pro Russian Supporters" which in reality is probably Russian Troops with the Russian Flag ripped off their uniforms, either way I hope the United States stays out of it in military terms and Russia is satisfied with what they already have in place. >>
From my sources there - there are a few hundred people occupying the Donets'k regional council building - they proclaimed the Donets'k People's Republic and are asking for a referendum there. Just two blocks away on Pushkin park, people are sitting about in cafe's having lunch and going on with life. In essence a few, probably Russian nationals, radicals are making a big stink and getting lots of press while the rest of the city goes on about life.
Russia probably has exported it's citizens and special forces groups to try to stir up trouble. The population so far isn't buying it.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
Of course, that's not what our media is reporting. To look at the shows this morning, you'd think the east was in full turmoil, which is what I'm sure Putin would like people to think.
As astounding as his utter contempt for the western allies seems to be, he seems prepared to move in the troops as soon as all these government building occupiers provoke some gun battles, which apparently in fact started today.
Brzezinski was on the talk shows this morning. He was advocating a behind-the-scenes commitment to arm the Ukrainians should the Russians invade, and to be sure the Russians knew about the commitment.
I read Russian media and they fan things into much bigger stories just like their western counterparts. Some of the favourite topics include natural disasters, political scandals, crime etc in America. You see, the press is pretty much the same - serves the interests of those that fund it.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>I read Russian media and they fan things into much bigger stories just like their western counterparts. Some of the favourite topics include natural disasters, political scandals, crime etc in America. You see, the press is pretty much the same - serves the interests of those that fund it. >>
old saying in the newpaper business: "Freedom of the press belongs to those that own one."
<< <i>Of course, that's not what our media is reporting. To look at the shows this morning, you'd think the east was in full turmoil, which is what I'm sure Putin would like people to think.
As astounding as his utter contempt for the western allies seems to be, he seems prepared to move in the troops as soon as all these government building occupiers provoke some gun battles, which apparently in fact started today.
Brzezinski was on the talk shows this morning. He was advocating a behind-the-scenes commitment to arm the Ukrainians should the Russians invade, and to be sure the Russians knew about the commitment. >>
Of course he was Lots of money to be made selling arms . Stir up trouble then sell guns to both sides. Everyone on those TV shows is a sock puppet for one faction or the other.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Of course he was Lots of money to be made selling arms . Stir up trouble then sell guns to both sides. Everyone on those TV shows is a sock puppet for one faction or the other. >>
This degree of cynicism is perhaps diagnostic.
Obviously, human nature being what it is, there is venality always hovering in the wings. Our founders understood this, which is why we instituted the ideas of the Enlightenment into our governance, we established a government with institutional checks and balances to manage human foibles, and we stimulated a world-wide revolution. Our greatness and power has come about not because we are sock puppets who sell guns. Our greatness and power came about because we espoused individual liberties, buttressed by the enforceable rule of law. In our (my?) life time, we have seen an expansion of individual human determination, prosperity and freedom absolutely unprecedented since the spawn of Lucy left Africa.
Russia under Putin is a reactionary force. Without regard to the exigencies of their history, post WWII Europe and the U.S., and ultimately the Treaty of Westphalia, did come up with a "better way:"viz, to respect international borders, or alternatively, to adjust them by peaceful means.
I worry that some equate our motives with those of reactionary autocracies, simply because (as all human motivations are), they are mixed.
<< <i>First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller >>
You left out the first line
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
He had a lot of guts and was one of the premier outspoken Pacifist of the 20th Century
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>It is getting ugly there. I fear the worst. >>
The Ukrainians can't back down now. >>
You know - the news from there is very personal for me. Unlike many of you, I have relatives and friends right there - in Donets'k, in Gorlovka(Horlivka), Kramators'k etc. This really is not about Ukrainians. This is about foreign powers posturing and using Ukraine as their battleground. And Ukrainians as their sacrificial offerings. I cannot even watch TV news about Ukraine right now - too many familiar buildings like the Council building in Donets'k, I walked by that building every morning and every evening. It was a place where there were just a year ago families walking, kids playing and open air cafes. Now it is a fortress maintained by foreign accented hirelings from Russia. The police HQ in Gorlovka is now occupied by these thugs. It is just down the road from a place I worked on a relief project.
Ukraine is my second home. Ukrainians are my people also. It is about Ukrainians of all backgrounds finding their nation and becoming a proud nation free of all foreign domination.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>Of course he was Lots of money to be made selling arms . Stir up trouble then sell guns to both sides. Everyone on those TV shows is a sock puppet for one faction or the other. >>
This degree of cynicism is perhaps diagnostic.
Obviously, human nature being what it is, there is venality always hovering in the wings. Our founders understood this, which is why we instituted the ideas of the Enlightenment into our governance, we established a government with institutional checks and balances to manage human foibles, and we stimulated a world-wide revolution. Our greatness and power has come about not because we are sock puppets who sell guns. Our greatness and power came about because we espoused individual liberties, buttressed by the enforceable rule of law. In our (my?) life time, we have seen an expansion of individual human determination, prosperity and freedom absolutely unprecedented since the spawn of Lucy left Africa.
Russia under Putin is a reactionary force. Without regard to the exigencies of their history, post WWII Europe and the U.S., and ultimately the Treaty of Westphalia, did come up with a "better way:"viz, to respect international borders, or alternatively, to adjust them by peaceful means.
I worry that some equate our motives with those of reactionary autocracies, simply because (as all human motivations are), they are mixed. >>
Our motives are only mixed with regards to money or oil or blocking another country's interests . If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident
<< <i>Our motives are only mixed with regards to money or oil or blocking another country's interests . If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident >>
Such unequivocal conviction surely must have a larger perspective. My own experience is that the USA has been among the most idealistic of powers. Certainly we have been blinded by our hubris at times, and self-serving forces are invariably and perennially at work anywhere. But given my understanding of our history, it strikes me as an unwarranted absolutism that "If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident." Where does that come from?
As far as the failure of our leadership is concerned, I couldn't agree more.
"""The Obama administration reportedly is withholding even non-lethal military aid to Ukraine for fear it could further inflame tensions -- despite already intensifying clashes between the country's government and pro-Russia militiamen.
A critical report detailing the requests was sent to Congress and the White House by retired Gen. Wesley Clark and former Defense Department official Phillip Karber, according to The Washington Free Beacon."""
<< <i>Our motives are only mixed with regards to money or oil or blocking another country's interests . If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident >>
Such unequivocal conviction surely must have a larger perspective. My own experience is that the USA has been among the most idealistic of powers. Certainly we have been blinded by our hubris at times, and self-serving forces are invariably and perennially at work anywhere. But given my understanding of our history, it strikes me as an unwarranted absolutism that "If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident." Where does that come from?
As far as the failure of our leadership is concerned, I couldn't agree more. >>
<< <i>The Ukrainian soldiers manning the vehicles offered no armed resistance, and masked pro-Russian militias in combat fatigues sat on top as they drove into the eastern city of Slovyansk, a hotbed of unrest against Ukraine's interim government. >>
<< <i>Would be encouraging to see the Ukrainian soldiers put up a fight and not just hand over their armored vehicles.
I don't really expect westerners to understand. Ukraine really hasn't developed into a real bonafide nation with a strong identity. It only existed for 23 years, and with only a very brief period of prior independence during the Russian Revolution they have never been a real nation. The people in the west of the country identify much stronger as Ukrainians - but the eastern part of what is now Ukraine was always Russian speaking and really was only made a part of Ukraine as a Soviet Socialist Republic in the formation of the USSR in 1922 - to merge the disparate parts to become one republic of the USSR. Initially the communists, usually Russian speaking hoped that eventually everybody would speak Russian. That idea on top of all the economic, agricultural upheaval was just more than was easily possible.
So there you have it, the eastern part of Ukraine is Russian and Ukrainian ethnicity - but pretty much Russian speaking. I can tell you from living there in the so-called "Red East" that the Ukrainian government in Kyiv even then was discriminatory to Russian speakers - all our documents etc had to be in Ukrainian. A complete PITA. So I can understand clearly why people see that the government in Kyiv is not legitimate, it wasn't elected - and they are only going to try to legislate out the existence of the Russian language.
This is only going to end now after blood has spilled. I fear a lot will.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>Would be encouraging to see the Ukrainian soldiers put up a fight and not just hand over their armored vehicles.
I don't really expect westerners to understand. Ukraine really hasn't developed into a real bonafide nation with a strong identity. It only existed for 23 years, and with only a very brief period of prior independence during the Russian Revolution they have never been a real nation. The people in the west of the country identify much stronger as Ukrainians - but the eastern part of what is now Ukraine was always Russian speaking and really was only made a part of Ukraine as a Soviet Socialist Republic in the formation of the USSR in 1922 - to merge the disparate parts to become one republic of the USSR. Initially the communists, usually Russian speaking hoped that eventually everybody would speak Russian. That idea on top of all the economic, agricultural upheaval was just more than was easily possible.
So there you have it, the eastern part of Ukraine is Russian and Ukrainian ethnicity - but pretty much Russian speaking. I can tell you from living there in the so-called "Red East" that the Ukrainian government in Kyiv even then was discriminatory to Russian speakers - all our documents etc had to be in Ukrainian. A complete PITA. So I can understand clearly why people see that the government in Kyiv is not legitimate, it wasn't elected - and they are only going to try to legislate out the existence of the Russian language.
This is only going to end now after blood has spilled. I fear a lot will. >>
<< <i>I don't really expect westerners to understand. Ukraine really hasn't developed into a real bonafide nation with a strong identity. It only existed for 23 years, and with only a very brief period of prior independence during the Russian Revolution they have never been a real nation. The people in the west of the country identify much stronger as Ukrainians - but the eastern part of what is now Ukraine was always Russian speaking and really was only made a part of Ukraine as a Soviet Socialist Republic in the formation of the USSR in 1922 - to merge the disparate parts to become one republic of the USSR. Initially the communists, usually Russian speaking hoped that eventually everybody would speak Russian. That idea on top of all the economic, agricultural upheaval was just more than was easily possible. >>
Thanks SO much, SoarAlba, for that clarifying history.
From a westerner's perspective, I'd understood that Ukraine was yet another unwilling SSR, and that Ukranians had rejoiced in and supported the invasion of the USSR by Germany in WWII. I'd also understood that Stalin had moved ethnic Russians into the eastern part of Ukraine to restrain any nationalistic inclinations, much as he did in the Baltic states and some of the Stans. And now, our information through the media has been that the eastern part of Ukraine, outside of the Crimea, has Ukranian majorities and ethnic Russian minorities. It has been confusing, then, that there has been such feeble local resistance to the so-called Russian-imported thugs who are systematically taking over the power centers of towns in the east. The implication is that such uprising there as there have been have been the result altogether of a barrage of false Russian propaganda (which again raises the confusion: where is the countervailing Kiev "propaganda," and why has it been so ineffectual).
From what you have written here, eastern Ukraine is a contrivance, is "really" Russia in its soul, and we should be content to accede to negotiations that meet Russian's demands of federalizing the region or forming a quasi-independent state allied with Moscow.
E. Ukraine being populated by Russian speaking Ukrainians and native Russians was less a Stalin contrivance and more just an example of a border that was drawn in 1922 when the USSR was one great big unhappy family. Ukraine as a distinctive linguistic and cultural entity in reality goes as far east as the Dnepr river - there are little exceptions on both sides of the river, but the river is the divide.
The consequences of the assemblage and then dissolution of the USSR are going to last for at least a couple of more generations. The biggest factor driving pro-Russian sentiment in E. Ukraine are people that are 50+ years old, that grew up in the USSR era. People my age and younger tend to favour Ukraine as a nation, even if they are ethnically Russian and Russian speaking. Ukraine is all they know.
I don't know if it was a foreboding or what, but the other day at the grocery store I got a Russian 10 kopek coin from 2007 in my change - it was masquerading as a cent.
My family and friends on odnoklassniki.com and vkontakte.com are getting cautious with what they post now. That says volumes.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
"""Secretary of State John Kerry confirmed Thursday a report that Jews in one restive Ukrainian city were sent notices telling them to register, a development he called "grotesque."
Kerry's comments follow a report in Israel's Ynet News that a leaflet was circulating in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, demanding that Jews register -- as well as provide a list of property they own -- or else face deportation and revocation of citizenship. Pro-Russian activists have asserted partial control over some government buildings in that city."""
Kerry should consider this as he unwisely attempts to weaken Israel. History has wound the clock back 75 years in a couple of months.
Comments
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Sanctions are a negative sum game >>
Recent US foreign policy (take the Iran sanctions) only serves to push other nations away from dollar dependence.
Adding fuel to the petrodollar decline.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>
<< <i>And now the queen of crookedness announces she is running for president of Ukraine, Yulia Tymoschenko has thrown her girdle into the ring. >>
Will her campaign platform be Nook the Rooskies?... >>
Until she made that stupid comment she would have been one of the more preferable candidates as far as being able to negotiate with the Russians - it was her gas deal with Gazprom that got her put in jail in Ukraine.
<< <i>Finally the western media is catching up with the mobilising of troops on the Ukraine Russia border - note I was posting about this more than a week ago. Obama is making some pretty bold, but empty threats if Russia rolls into the rest of Ukraine. >>
Its been known for over a week about the Russians massing at the border, Obama stated its their right as they are on Russian Soil LOL
Again aside from empty sanctions there is not much we can do about this, I for one dont want the United States sending troops to that region and as cold as this may sound its Ukrains problem NOT the United States, personally I think deep down Obama thinks the same way and is acting the way he is for that very reason.
Ukraine is not Nato
Ukraine would not assist us if we were under attack in Europe or home
Ukraine is cursed by geography
<< <i>
Its been known for over a week about the Russians massing at the border, Obama stated its their right as they are on Russian Soil LOL
Again aside from empty sanctions there is not much we can do about this, I for one dont want the United States sending troops to that region and as cold as this may sound its Ukrains problem NOT the United States, personally I think deep down Obama thinks the same way and is acting the way he is for that very reason.
Ukraine is not Nato
Ukraine would not assist us if we were under attack in Europe or home
Ukraine is cursed by geography >>
I agree with you and quite frankly aside from some of the Tymoschenko nutwhacks Ukrainians really do not want American help. And don't expect the Germans or French to assist the USA if it were attacked by a viable foreign military power. The whole NATO alliance is a farce. Aside from Great Britain, Poland and Canada - where the USA has strong historical or emotional ties - forget it.
<< <i>I agree with you and quite frankly aside from some of the Tymoschenko nutwhacks Ukrainians really do not want American help. >>
Good, hold back my share of the $15B IMF monies.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>IMF money comes with strings attached. Most recipients regret taking it. >>
Much like student loans. Both should be eliminated.
That was the one area where I showed my N. American upbringing, I was usually underdressed by Ukrainian/Russian standards, and little old babushkas never had a problem telling me that I was going to freeze - when in fact I was quite comfortable wearing short pants and teeshirts on 90' summer days.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Donchane! British brothers! A decisive moment! ONLY YOU DECIDE WHERE TO LIVE YOUR CHILDREN, and in what language they will speak! As you know, Yuzivka ("Donetsk") native English town, founded by the great industrialist Englishman - John Hughes.
Yuzivka REFERENDUM OF RETURN ("Donetsk") of the UK:
Come back! Donetsk - English town!
5,017
59.7%
Donetsk should receive broad autonomy to regional English.
1,333
15.9%
Leave everything as is. Should not stir up the story ...
1,011
12%
Kokoku DANETSK manual ultrasonic inspection Goradil Cudahy-TAX-TAX! 11
1,045
12.4%
Get code poll 8,406 people voted.
Sorry Russia. Sorry Ukraine, Beliki Britanniya skoro.
<< <i>I love Poland, what a great country. Hell I would just invade the place just to live there. >>
My paternal grandfather hailed from Lodz. It is a good thing that he got the hell out early in the Nineteenth Century.
<< <i>Putin sadly has free reign as the leader of the free world laments over his NCAA brackets. >>
Azerbaijan is getting a bit antsy about Russia having troops so close over the border in Armenia. Azerbaijan has been a significant player in selling oil and piping it west while bypassing Russia. Russia doesn't like that. Even Kazakhstan is getting nervous because Russia has the Baikonur space launch facility and may well want to make that Russian territory.
Curiously the whole Ukraine thing has driven a bit of a wedge between Putin and Belarus' Lukashenko - everybody that has Russia nearby is getting nervous - Lukashenko wanted to rebuild the USSR - but on his terms - not Putin's.
<< <i>(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry accused Russian agents and special forces on Tuesday of stirring separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to prepare for military action as it had in Crimea. >>
Ya think, John?
<< <i>
<< <i>(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry accused Russian agents and special forces on Tuesday of stirring separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to prepare for military action as it had in Crimea. >>
Ya think, John? >>
He just got the memo. The present administration in the US seems to be behind in notifications of world events. I wouldn't be totally gobsmacked to find out that Barack Obama just heard about the Malaysian plane disappearing.
<< <i>Ukraine may dictate the metals markets for a few weeks >>
It's been almost 2 month...and those of us that answered ...NO, which btw was most of us, we get to keep our crystal balls
Those that answered YES...time to resume taking your anti paranoia medication.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ukraine may dictate the metals markets for a few weeks >>
It's been almost 2 month...and those of us that answered ...NO, which btw was most of us, we get to keep our crystal balls
Those that answered YES...time to resume taking your anti paranoia medication. >>
I dunno. I think we had a pretty good discussion here. I learned quite a bit from SaorAlba and many of the other posters.
I suspect that we are in the early chapters of this conflict and not the end.
"""(Reuters) - The White House on Saturday warned Russia against further military action in Ukraine after armed separatists seized government offices in the eastern city of Slaviansk, saying the situation was reminiscent of what recently happened in Crimea.
"We are very concerned by the concerted campaign we see underway in eastern Ukraine today by pro-Russian separatists, apparently with support from Russia, who are inciting violence and sabotage and seeking to undermine and destabilize the Ukrainian state," said Laura Lucas Magnuson, a spokeswoman for the White House National Security Council."""
<< <i>It looks like Russia is going to fund and support so called "Pro Russian Supporters" which in reality is probably Russian Troops with the Russian Flag ripped off their uniforms, either way I hope the United States stays out of it in military terms and Russia is satisfied with what they already have in place. >>
From my sources there - there are a few hundred people occupying the Donets'k regional council building - they proclaimed the Donets'k People's Republic and are asking for a referendum there. Just two blocks away on Pushkin park, people are sitting about in cafe's having lunch and going on with life. In essence a few, probably Russian nationals, radicals are making a big stink and getting lots of press while the rest of the city goes on about life.
Russia probably has exported it's citizens and special forces groups to try to stir up trouble. The population so far isn't buying it.
As astounding as his utter contempt for the western allies seems to be, he seems prepared to move in the troops as soon as all these government building occupiers provoke some gun battles, which apparently in fact started today.
Brzezinski was on the talk shows this morning. He was advocating a behind-the-scenes commitment to arm the Ukrainians should the Russians invade, and to be sure the Russians knew about the commitment.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>I read Russian media and they fan things into much bigger stories just like their western counterparts. Some of the favourite topics include natural disasters, political scandals, crime etc in America. You see, the press is pretty much the same - serves the interests of those that fund it. >>
old saying in the newpaper business: "Freedom of the press belongs to those that own one."
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Of course, that's not what our media is reporting. To look at the shows this morning, you'd think the east was in full turmoil, which is what I'm sure Putin would like people to think.
As astounding as his utter contempt for the western allies seems to be, he seems prepared to move in the troops as soon as all these government building occupiers provoke some gun battles, which apparently in fact started today.
Brzezinski was on the talk shows this morning. He was advocating a behind-the-scenes commitment to arm the Ukrainians should the Russians invade, and to be sure the Russians knew about the commitment. >>
Of course he was
<< <i>Of course he was
This degree of cynicism is perhaps diagnostic.
Obviously, human nature being what it is, there is venality always hovering in the wings. Our founders understood this, which is why we instituted the ideas of the Enlightenment into our governance, we established a government with institutional checks and balances to manage human foibles, and we stimulated a world-wide revolution. Our greatness and power has come about not because we are sock puppets who sell guns. Our greatness and power came about because we espoused individual liberties, buttressed by the enforceable rule of law. In our (my?) life time, we have seen an expansion of individual human determination, prosperity and freedom absolutely unprecedented since the spawn of Lucy left Africa.
Russia under Putin is a reactionary force. Without regard to the exigencies of their history, post WWII Europe and the U.S., and ultimately the Treaty of Westphalia, did come up with a "better way:"viz, to respect international borders, or alternatively, to adjust them by peaceful means.
I worry that some equate our motives with those of reactionary autocracies, simply because (as all human motivations are), they are mixed.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller
<< <i>First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller >>
You left out the first line
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
He had a lot of guts and was one of the premier outspoken Pacifist of the 20th Century
I chose the version from the US Holocaust Memorial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
<< <i>It is getting ugly there. I fear the worst. >>
The Ukrainians can't back down now.
<< <i>
<< <i>It is getting ugly there. I fear the worst. >>
The Ukrainians can't back down now. >>
You know - the news from there is very personal for me. Unlike many of you, I have relatives and friends right there - in Donets'k, in Gorlovka(Horlivka), Kramators'k etc. This really is not about Ukrainians. This is about foreign powers posturing and using Ukraine as their battleground. And Ukrainians as their sacrificial offerings. I cannot even watch TV news about Ukraine right now - too many familiar buildings like the Council building in Donets'k, I walked by that building every morning and every evening. It was a place where there were just a year ago families walking, kids playing and open air cafes. Now it is a fortress maintained by foreign accented hirelings from Russia. The police HQ in Gorlovka is now occupied by these thugs. It is just down the road from a place I worked on a relief project.
Ukraine is my second home. Ukrainians are my people also. It is about Ukrainians of all backgrounds finding their nation and becoming a proud nation free of all foreign domination.
<< <i>
<< <i>Of course he was
This degree of cynicism is perhaps diagnostic.
Obviously, human nature being what it is, there is venality always hovering in the wings. Our founders understood this, which is why we instituted the ideas of the Enlightenment into our governance, we established a government with institutional checks and balances to manage human foibles, and we stimulated a world-wide revolution. Our greatness and power has come about not because we are sock puppets who sell guns. Our greatness and power came about because we espoused individual liberties, buttressed by the enforceable rule of law. In our (my?) life time, we have seen an expansion of individual human determination, prosperity and freedom absolutely unprecedented since the spawn of Lucy left Africa.
Russia under Putin is a reactionary force. Without regard to the exigencies of their history, post WWII Europe and the U.S., and ultimately the Treaty of Westphalia, did come up with a "better way:"viz, to respect international borders, or alternatively, to adjust them by peaceful means.
I worry that some equate our motives with those of reactionary autocracies, simply because (as all human motivations are), they are mixed. >>
Our motives are only mixed with regards to money or oil or blocking another country's interests . If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident
locals stop tank? Is it mud season ?
<< <i>The lack of leadership by Washington is numbing, but not unexpected. >>
And the big problem is that it is a bipartisan effort at dumbing, not just one party.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Our motives are only mixed with regards to money or oil or blocking another country's interests . If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident >>
Such unequivocal conviction surely must have a larger perspective. My own experience is that the USA has been among the most idealistic of powers. Certainly we have been blinded by our hubris at times, and self-serving forces are invariably and perennially at work anywhere. But given my understanding of our history, it strikes me as an unwarranted absolutism that "If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident." Where does that come from?
As far as the failure of our leadership is concerned, I couldn't agree more.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
A critical report detailing the requests was sent to Congress and the White House by retired Gen. Wesley Clark and former Defense Department official Phillip Karber, according to The Washington Free Beacon."""
What's next.....Poland is handed over?
Jimmy Carter at least stood up when challenged.
<< <i>
<< <i>Our motives are only mixed with regards to money or oil or blocking another country's interests . If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident >>
Such unequivocal conviction surely must have a larger perspective. My own experience is that the USA has been among the most idealistic of powers. Certainly we have been blinded by our hubris at times, and self-serving forces are invariably and perennially at work anywhere. But given my understanding of our history, it strikes me as an unwarranted absolutism that "If we do anything purely humanitarian it is probably an accident." Where does that come from?
As far as the failure of our leadership is concerned, I couldn't agree more. >>
Here is a short list of our idealism US regime change actions
Text
<< <i>The Ukrainian soldiers manning the vehicles offered no armed resistance, and masked pro-Russian militias in combat fatigues sat on top as they drove into the eastern city of Slovyansk, a hotbed of unrest against Ukraine's interim government. >>
<< <i>Would be encouraging to see the Ukrainian soldiers put up a fight and not just hand over their armored vehicles.
I don't really expect westerners to understand. Ukraine really hasn't developed into a real bonafide nation with a strong identity. It only existed for 23 years, and with only a very brief period of prior independence during the Russian Revolution they have never been a real nation. The people in the west of the country identify much stronger as Ukrainians - but the eastern part of what is now Ukraine was always Russian speaking and really was only made a part of Ukraine as a Soviet Socialist Republic in the formation of the USSR in 1922 - to merge the disparate parts to become one republic of the USSR. Initially the communists, usually Russian speaking hoped that eventually everybody would speak Russian. That idea on top of all the economic, agricultural upheaval was just more than was easily possible.
So there you have it, the eastern part of Ukraine is Russian and Ukrainian ethnicity - but pretty much Russian speaking. I can tell you from living there in the so-called "Red East" that the Ukrainian government in Kyiv even then was discriminatory to Russian speakers - all our documents etc had to be in Ukrainian. A complete PITA. So I can understand clearly why people see that the government in Kyiv is not legitimate, it wasn't elected - and they are only going to try to legislate out the existence of the Russian language.
This is only going to end now after blood has spilled. I fear a lot will.
<< <i>
<< <i>Would be encouraging to see the Ukrainian soldiers put up a fight and not just hand over their armored vehicles.
I don't really expect westerners to understand. Ukraine really hasn't developed into a real bonafide nation with a strong identity. It only existed for 23 years, and with only a very brief period of prior independence during the Russian Revolution they have never been a real nation. The people in the west of the country identify much stronger as Ukrainians - but the eastern part of what is now Ukraine was always Russian speaking and really was only made a part of Ukraine as a Soviet Socialist Republic in the formation of the USSR in 1922 - to merge the disparate parts to become one republic of the USSR. Initially the communists, usually Russian speaking hoped that eventually everybody would speak Russian. That idea on top of all the economic, agricultural upheaval was just more than was easily possible.
So there you have it, the eastern part of Ukraine is Russian and Ukrainian ethnicity - but pretty much Russian speaking. I can tell you from living there in the so-called "Red East" that the Ukrainian government in Kyiv even then was discriminatory to Russian speakers - all our documents etc had to be in Ukrainian. A complete PITA. So I can understand clearly why people see that the government in Kyiv is not legitimate, it wasn't elected - and they are only going to try to legislate out the existence of the Russian language.
This is only going to end now after blood has spilled. I fear a lot will. >>
Sic transit gloria mundi...and so it goes.
<< <i>I don't really expect westerners to understand. Ukraine really hasn't developed into a real bonafide nation with a strong identity. It only existed for 23 years, and with only a very brief period of prior independence during the Russian Revolution they have never been a real nation. The people in the west of the country identify much stronger as Ukrainians - but the eastern part of what is now Ukraine was always Russian speaking and really was only made a part of Ukraine as a Soviet Socialist Republic in the formation of the USSR in 1922 - to merge the disparate parts to become one republic of the USSR. Initially the communists, usually Russian speaking hoped that eventually everybody would speak Russian. That idea on top of all the economic, agricultural upheaval was just more than was easily possible. >>
Thanks SO much, SoarAlba, for that clarifying history.
From a westerner's perspective, I'd understood that Ukraine was yet another unwilling SSR, and that Ukranians had rejoiced in and supported the invasion of the USSR by Germany in WWII. I'd also understood that Stalin had moved ethnic Russians into the eastern part of Ukraine to restrain any nationalistic inclinations, much as he did in the Baltic states and some of the Stans. And now, our information through the media has been that the eastern part of Ukraine, outside of the Crimea, has Ukranian majorities and ethnic Russian minorities. It has been confusing, then, that there has been such feeble local resistance to the so-called Russian-imported thugs who are systematically taking over the power centers of towns in the east. The implication is that such uprising there as there have been have been the result altogether of a barrage of false Russian propaganda (which again raises the confusion: where is the countervailing Kiev "propaganda," and why has it been so ineffectual).
From what you have written here, eastern Ukraine is a contrivance, is "really" Russia in its soul, and we should be content to accede to negotiations that meet Russian's demands of federalizing the region or forming a quasi-independent state allied with Moscow.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
The consequences of the assemblage and then dissolution of the USSR are going to last for at least a couple of more generations. The biggest factor driving pro-Russian sentiment in E. Ukraine are people that are 50+ years old, that grew up in the USSR era. People my age and younger tend to favour Ukraine as a nation, even if they are ethnically Russian and Russian speaking. Ukraine is all they know.
I don't know if it was a foreboding or what, but the other day at the grocery store I got a Russian 10 kopek coin from 2007 in my change - it was masquerading as a cent.
My family and friends on odnoklassniki.com and vkontakte.com are getting cautious with what they post now. That says volumes.
"""Secretary of State John Kerry confirmed Thursday a report that Jews in one restive Ukrainian city were sent notices telling them to register, a development he called "grotesque."
Kerry's comments follow a report in Israel's Ynet News that a leaflet was circulating in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, demanding that Jews register -- as well as provide a list of property they own -- or else face deportation and revocation of citizenship. Pro-Russian activists have asserted partial control over some government buildings in that city."""
Kerry should consider this as he unwisely attempts to weaken Israel. History has wound the clock back 75 years in a couple of months.
Link
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...