<< <i>Back on topic here now, in Ukraine nobody stored any value in money in anything but dollars or gold. Gold made doors open to government offices very easily. >>
Interesting, so nobody saved in the hryvnia? Since you lived there and have a better perspective on this than anyone else here, what do you think will happen? Will the people of Crimea willing leave the Ukraine and join the Russians? >>
Before 1783 Crimea was part of Ottoman Empire - where the Tatars play in - Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine as gift celebrating the 300th anniversary of Ukrainian Hetman Khelminitsky allied with Russian Empire of Tsar Aleksey. Before then Ukraine had mostly been a part of Polish Lithuanian commonwealth which is why Ukrainian language has many words that sound Polish(I can understand Polish because it similar to Russian).
Crimea having been more a part of Russia and with mostly Russians, a few Ukrainians and of course the Tatars - most of the loyalty is towards Russia - especially with all the political discord in Ukraine. One of my friends there was posting on the Russian version of facebook about how Ukraine has everything going for it, the best educated people, great soil and industry but lousy and crooked politicians - it is so true.
I can see the tone in E. Ukraine is turning towards letting Crimea go but not E. Ukraine - they want to speak Russian like we used to, but be a part of Ukraine. All the drums of war are beating on both sides - mainly by Russia, America and Europe and not so much in Ukraine. A country that was run over by the Soviets and the Nazis really doesn't want to be destroyed again.
Yeah, nobody saved stupid hryvnia. It has gone from 5 to the dollar in early 2008 to now 11 to the dollar. Ruble is slipping badly too.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
<< <i>The Ukrainian government also needs $15 Billion to stay solvent. My father was Ukrainian and I have relatives over there. Putin is already amassing troops on the border. So not just default, but possibly war or civil war. Kerry offered $1 Billion in aid, though not enough to prevent chaos.
I see this as another Arab Spring for them. The Ukrainians see how corrupt their government is and Putin fears it will spill over to Russia. Both countries are being run by the mob. Ukrainian's former President lived very opulently and now is being hunted for war crimes.
It is very personal for me also - my family is Ukrainian and Russian, we have family there in the E. part of Ukraine and lots of friends there from when I lived there. We were just talking with some of them on skype earlier this evening. What is very fascinating is there are a lot of pro-Ukrainian peaceful protests that are NOT getting coverage in the west. The Russians literally bussed in hundreds of protesters to takeover the regional government building - kind of like "phantom residents" and they are doing it in Krim also.
But my friend sends pictures from the pro-Ukraine protests last night:
Oh I tell them they will start invasion of single American soldiers.
Problem is in Ukraine as you note, not many in politics are without blood on their hands. Yatsunyak is not a bad guy really, but having talked to his campaign people during the 2010 election I can tell you he is WAY over his head being thrust into the Prime Minister position. He also has problem in that though he is a practicing Orthodox Christian he has alleged Jewish ancestry in a country where that is not so popular or accepted.
Tymoschenko is lucky she was in jail - otherwise she would have been run out just like Yanukovych. She has blood all over her. When I lived there there were whispers of her being involved in disappearances of political opponents. This is all pretty foreign concept to people in America - but we were pretty used to this fun and games even 20 years after fall of USSR.
Back on topic here now, in Ukraine nobody stored any value in money in anything but dollars or gold. Gold made doors open to government offices very easily. >>
Sorry I just wanted to bump that pic forward to the next page
When you say gold , what form is it in? I've been a believer in saving some in the form of clearly stamped wedding bands and not all in coin form which is less well known to the Joe Six pack crowd. With respect to dollars, what denomination would be most useful? What about euro?,
Sorry I just wanted to bump that pic forward to the next page
When you say gold , what form is it in? I've been a believer in saving some in the form of clearly stamped wedding bands and not all in coin form which is less well known to the Joe Six pack crowd. With respect to dollars, what denomination would be most useful? What about euro?, >>
For me all gold was in Swiss form, usually bars like Pamp Suisse - everything from 5 gramme on up to the ounce coins. You can even buy gold in supermarket in many places in Ukraine - but it is rather a pain in the @$$ and you pay more money and have to go multiple places to pay for and then pick up. It was gold bars that got me questioned in Amsterdam a couple of years ago - they were in my carry on bag - secured deep and showed up on this metal detector. I guess if they were coins there might not have been a problem - but maybe they think the bars were weapon or something. It just really is the most convenient means of transporting larger sums of monetary instrument - everybody in the know can recognise them and sell them quickly for cash, dollars rubles or euros - but not hryven. I only kept enough hryven for grocery stores, bus fare etc. Rent on our apartments was always in dollars.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
In this video there is singing of national anthem, "Gymn Ukraina" and waving of flags etc. This was meant to be a peaceful rally, and was until some people showed up speaking Russian with a Russian accent - suspicious because they pronounce words like gavaryu as "gahvaryu" like a Russian and not "havaryu" like a Ukrainian. When the large flag was unfurled something sort of funny happened. The Russian accented people started tossing eggs up onto the flag in hopes they would break - but instead they rolled off the flag and back to the the egg throwers!
The green sign in the background in some of the shots says "Sberbank Rossii" which is one of Russia's largest banks - and a bank I probably have been into more than a few times. The cathedral in the shots is on Ul. Artyoma and is about a kilometre from my old apartment there. Shakhtar Stadium is only stones throw away also, where the Euro 2012 was held.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
I feel bad that you have family in Ukeraine, however I noticed your sig line and have to ask respectively- forgotten by the West? What in the world do you suggest the West or we might as well say the United States do about this?
Ukraine is litterally on Russias doorstep and the corrupt Government brokered some deal.
Sure Canceling visas and what not is Obama pumping his fist in the air saying "the United States wont tolerate this"! but in reality this is a no win situation for the United States to get involved in and everyone knows it.
Again no disrespect to You or your loved ones Im just curious what you think could possibly be done about this by the USA.
Sorry I just wanted to bump that pic forward to the next page
When you say gold , what form is it in? I've been a believer in saving some in the form of clearly stamped wedding bands and not all in coin form which is less well known to the Joe Six pack crowd. With respect to dollars, what denomination would be most useful? What about euro?, >>
For me all gold was in Swiss form, usually bars like Pamp Suisse - everything from 5 gramme on up to the ounce coins. You can even buy gold in supermarket in many places in Ukraine - but it is rather a pain in the @$$ and you pay more money and have to go multiple places to pay for and then pick up. It was gold bars that got me questioned in Amsterdam a couple of years ago - they were in my carry on bag - secured deep and showed up on this metal detector. I guess if they were coins there might not have been a problem - but maybe they think the bars were weapon or something. It just really is the most convenient means of transporting larger sums of monetary instrument - everybody in the know can recognise them and sell them quickly for cash, dollars rubles or euros - but not hryven. I only kept enough hryven for grocery stores, bus fare etc. Rent on our apartments was always in dollars. >>
So generally gold was used for larger "transactions" . Below a certain amount paper US dollars were in demand , or were large sums in the form of paper dollars used also?
<< <i> Again no disrespect to You or your loved ones Im just curious what you think could possibly be done about this by the USA. >>
The EU, led by the former communist apparatchik Merkel, is doing nothing. Putin and Obama are beating their chests and bringing up cold war era rhetoric. The biggest problems are the EU lack of interest and the two old superpowers spouting off veiled threats of economic catastrophies they are going to visit upon one another. The EU fears a cutoff in gas, well they shouldn't have been sourcing it in the kleptocratic ex USSR.
Russia is taking advantage of a country on it's knees from a five year financial erosion. Lot of the people there in Crimea are older, retirees etc with some penchant of feeling for the USSR - and they see Putin as the knight in shining armour rebuilding the perceived glory of the USSR once more - though in reality the CIS and the Belarus-Russia unitary state are little more than window dressing - the president of Belarus is not going for anything less than premiership of the new Belarus-Russia unitary state, and Putin won't let him.
The USA sure doesn't even have a direct and clear position. You have people like McCain that are ready to send in the marines already, and others like Obama sitting around "what am I going to do, what am I going to do?" all the while making empty threats he cannot fulfill. It is just yet another example of weakness in the US government. Everybody is consumed with petty little squabbles about gay marriage and medical plans all the while the national debt climbs to unsustainable highs and the USA takes a beating in world opinion because of the ineffective leadership at the executive and legislative branches. You cannot even point a finger at one party or another - they are both miserably rotten to the core.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
<< <i> Again no disrespect to You or your loved ones Im just curious what you think could possibly be done about this by the USA. >>
The EU, led by the former communist apparatchik Merkel, is doing nothing. Putin and Obama are beating their chests and bringing up cold war era rhetoric. The biggest problems are the EU lack of interest and the two old superpowers spouting off veiled threats of economic catastrophies they are going to visit upon one another. The EU fears a cutoff in gas, well they shouldn't have been sourcing it in the kleptocratic ex USSR.
Russia is taking advantage of a country on it's knees from a five year financial erosion. Lot of the people there in Crimea are older, retirees etc with some penchant of feeling for the USSR - and they see Putin as the knight in shining armour rebuilding the perceived glory of the USSR once more - though in reality the CIS and the Belarus-Russia unitary state are little more than window dressing - the president of Belarus is not going for anything less than premiership of the new Belarus-Russia unitary state, and Putin won't let him.
The USA sure doesn't even have a direct and clear position. You have people like McCain that are ready to send in the marines already, and others like Obama sitting around "what am I going to do, what am I going to do?" all the while making empty threats he cannot fulfill. It is just yet another example of weakness in the US government. Everybody is consumed with petty little squabbles about gay marriage and medical plans all the while the national debt climbs to unsustainable highs and the USA takes a beating in world opinion because of the ineffective leadership at the executive and legislative branches. You cannot even point a finger at one party or another - they are both miserably rotten to the core. >>
Good enough.
I am in 100% agreement with you about the current administration.
So generally gold was used for larger "transactions" . Below a certain amount paper US dollars were in demand , or were large sums in the form of paper dollars used also? >>
Or Euros and rubles. Have to imagine a place like Costa Rica where they have an official national currency - but it is only used for day to day buy a loaf of bread sort of thing. If you bought a car or something it was always priced in Euros or dollars. The financial crisis of 2008 really hit Ukraine and Russia particularly hard, and reflected in the value of the currency so people didn't keep money in it. You can open foreign currency accounts at most banks, but the problem is - no realistic insurance if the bank collapses - which has happened, even though technically the National Bank is supposed to insure private bank accounts - in practice doesn't happen.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
""The USA sure doesn't even have a direct and clear position. You have people like McCain that are ready to send in the marines already, and others like Obama sitting around "what am I going to do, what am I going to do?" all the while making empty threats he cannot fulfill. It is just yet another example of weakness in the US government. Everybody is consumed with petty little squabbles about gay marriage and medical plans all the while the national debt climbs to unsustainable highs and the USA takes a beating in world opinion because of the ineffective leadership at the executive and legislative branches. You cannot even point a finger at one party or another - they are both miserably rotten to the core.""
Thanks for the insight, SaorAlba. I think I understand some things better after reading your posts than I have from reading normal news! Interesting to hear about gold as money in practice, too.
The language issue is interesting. Is Ukraine spelled any different in Russian vs Ukranian? I imaged a flag with the Ukraine colors, with the nation spelled in Russian.
The language issue is interesting. Is Ukraine spelled any different in Russian vs Ukranian? I imaged a flag with the Ukraine colors, with the nation spelled in Russian. >>
In Ukrainian "Україна" - in Russian "Украина" - the "I" is the main difference. And words and especially pronunciation are different. I don't know too many Ukrainians that don't at least understand Russian. I know more than a few Ukrainians that don't know too much Ukrainian. You have to understand that Ukrainian was only a semi-tolerated language in USSR times and it was banned during the Tsarist era until the formation of the USSR. Surprisingly the communists were more tolerant of other languages. Poets like Lesya Kovach nee "Ukrainka" and Taras Shevchenko were writing in Ukrainian and having their works published in Austria-Hungary and smuggled in. At least in the USSR their works were published in their original language - I have one printed in Kyiv in 1977 that is one of my prised possessions in my library.
Sometime if you really want to get into the Ukrainian soul I would recommend reading Lesya Ukrainka's works - Contra Spem Spero and Forest Song are my favourites.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
I think the outcome of the vote is widely known and expected. What is not known is whether or not a bullet will actually be fired. That little 56 grain piece of metal may speak louder than a million votes.
I think the outcome of the vote is widely known and expected. What is not known is whether or not a bullet will actually be fired. That little 56 grain piece of metal may speak louder than a million votes. >>
...and nearly as important, will Germany followed by the US and the rest of Europe, impose meaningful sanctions on Putin's Russia?
...and nearly as important, will Germany followed by the US and the rest of Europe, impose meaningful sanctions on Putin's Russia? >>
If and in the unlikely event they do impose sanctions they will not be on Putin or Medvedev but on other lesser known figures like the governor of Crimea Aksonov etc. This is a situation where Russia caught Ukraine, Europe and America all with their pants down. And won. The only realistic consequence is a longer term plan to reduce European reliance on Russian gas and oil.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
<< <i>This event will mark the loss of backing the US is accustomed to receiving from other nations. The times they are a changin'. >>
I would love to see other countries back themselves. But it aint gonna happen. A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing.
...and nearly as important, will Germany followed by the US and the rest of Europe, impose meaningful sanctions on Putin's Russia? >>
If and in the unlikely event they do impose sanctions they will not be on Putin or Medvedev but on other lesser known figures like the governor of Crimea Aksonov etc. This is a situation where Russia caught Ukraine, Europe and America all with their pants down. And won. The only realistic consequence is a longer term plan to reduce European reliance on Russian gas and oil.
Growing up in East Germany, Angela Merkel sees this through a different prism than the US golfer-in-chief or the other Euro leaders. I believe that she is more like Churchill than Chamberlain. Germans are stoic and may put a financial wrench in Putin's gambit.
<< <i>A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing. >>
Key is probably who was on that plane. Likelihood that it's currently parked at Diego Garcia where a high value target(s) was taken off of it. Note the use of stolen passports in this case. What goes on at Diego Garcia stays at Diego Garcia. If this is the case, the plane will reappear.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing. >>
Key is probably who was on that plane. Likelihood that it's currently parked at Diego Garcia where a high value target(s) was taken off of it. Note the use of stolen passports in this case. What goes on at Diego Garcia stays at Diego Garcia. If this is the case, the plane will reappear. >>
<< <i>A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing. >>
Key is probably who was on that plane. Likelihood that it's currently parked at Diego Garcia where a high value target(s) was taken off of it. Note the use of stolen passports in this case. What goes on at Diego Garcia stays at Diego Garcia. If this is the case, the plane will reappear. >>
Doesnt the United States have a huge Naval/Air Force base there? I swore thats where we have a bunch of Tactical Bombers parked...
Doesnt the United States have a huge Naval/Air Force base there? I swore thats where we have a bunch of Tactical Bombers parked... >>
It is one of the last of the 99 year lease bases that Britain let to the USA in 1941 in return for the 50 old destroyers. And it is a very important base as you note - B-1's fly out of there for missions in Afghanistan. It is not a huge complex, rather small by comparison, but a big presence in a part of the world with not a lot of other power players.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Doesnt the United States have a huge Naval/Air Force base there? I swore thats where we have a bunch of Tactical Bombers parked... >>
It is one of the last of the 99 year lease bases that Britain let to the USA in 1941 in return for the 50 old destroyers. And it is a very important base as you note - B-1's fly out of there for missions in Afghanistan. It is not a huge complex, rather small by comparison, but a big presence in a part of the world with not a lot of other power players. >>
Thank You, I googled it and realized I was correct about the Bombers.
Reports are that pilot's wife and children moved out the day before the plane's disappearance.
Diego Garcia's isolation in the middle of the ocean also makes it a great hidden installation. There is a lot of controversy over the way Britain first removed all of the natives and placed them into poverty and slums.
<< <i>If peace breaks out in the Ukraine after the vote, then what for gold? >>
It is not likely. I have family and friends on both sides of what is going on there. One thing we can all agree on though - the coup on 22 Feb was illegal in the constitution as was the trumped over vote in Crimea. The USA quickly recognized what happened in Kyiv on 22 February whilst the Russians quickly recognized what happened in Crimea on 16 March.
So the USA and Russia both won one, and left the Ukrainians out in the cold. Again.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
<< <i>Europe and US really rolled over on this one. Got to keep the stock markets at record highs, you know.
Expecting a China move on Taiwan this year as the mainland is keen to occidental disinterest. >>
Ukraine could be sacrificed - it's economy was tanked, the coffers of the treasury looted by the oligarchs and leadership(the two of which are practically indistinguishable from one another). There was nothing of value to the west. And really in the E. of Ukraine, which Russia covets, is all the heavy industry - mining, metallurgy and manufacturing. W. Ukraine where there are less Russians is mostly agricultural and small industries.
Now it seems that will be an endgame for Russia - but let us not forget that Latvija and Estonia have sizable Russian minorities - and issues with language not being permitted etc just like Ukraine. Russia will pursue a more subtle form of subterfuge to get their way in those countries. They have already moved fighter jets into Belarus in response to the US sending fighter planes to a base in the Baltics to beef up the Baltic Air Policing programme. Russia has sizable military assets in the Kaliningrad Oblast enclave north of Poland and south of Lithuania.
China and Taiwan are a whole other matter - both have very strong economies. It would even be consequential for China, unless they can continue to buy up more USA debt and then the USA will be prostate to any military moves they make because they hold the economic power. In the end - all the military might only goes so far, you have to have the economic clout behind it - note the USSR in the late 1980s - economy couldn't keep up with the growth of the military. China can sustain it's military and then some - they are building aircraft carriers and anti-ship missiles for a fraction of what the US DoD pays for theirs. Their military is being built up at a fraction of their GDP.
Not only Taiwan is a target, but potentially so are China's nearby neighbours like Japan that they have disputes with over little islets. Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia could potentially find themselves as targets of Chinese territorial grabs.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
<< <i>It would even be consequential for China, unless they can continue to buy up more USA debt and then the USA will be prostate to any military moves they make because they hold the economic power. >>
We are already obsequious to and rudderless against China. Economic sanctions would cost us our clothing and Christmas toys as well as interest rates through the roof.
Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot. >>
I dunno, Carter showed some backbone at the Soviets after the Afghan invasion. Wheat was an important commodity that at least got the attention of our cold war counterparts.
I really expected Angela Merkel to step up to the plate as this in her back yard. Guess the movers and shakers at Davos once again prevailed.
<< <i>Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot. >>
I dunno, Carter showed some backbone at the Soviets after the Afghan invasion. Wheat was an important commodity that at least got the attention of our cold war counterparts. >>
You would also think that the US would have learned that this no longer our father's economy.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot. >>
I dunno, Carter showed some backbone at the Soviets after the Afghan invasion. Wheat was an important commodity that at least got the attention of our cold war counterparts. >>
You would also think that the US would have learned that this no longer our father's economy. >>
US embargo of Cuba has done wonders in the 50+ years since it was implemented. The Castro brother's biggest nightmare is a lifting of the embargo. The key aspect of a successful embargo is to sell as much as the target wants to buy, but buy nothing back and insist on no credit. The USA even buys gas and oil from Russia, but Europe buys much more. Perhaps it is time to reduce that dependency on an unreliable and erratic supplier. That needn't be done overnight, but gradually as a form of subterfuge.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
<< <i>The USA even buys gas and oil from Russia, but Europe buys much more. Perhaps it is time to reduce that dependency on an unreliable and erratic supplier. >>
Tough to do the right thing when the gas nozzle is held to a nations head. Same reason we have kissed the Middle East's butt since WWII.
Tough to do the right thing when the gas nozzle is held to a nations head. Same reason we have kissed the Middle East's butt since WWII. >>
There really should be a new update to "The Prize" - detailing all the world powers plays in that region of the world. Think Suez crisis, Gulf War, Yom Kippur war etc etc etc.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Sounds like a stifled economy from people taking flight away from the motherland. That almost sounds American >>
The irony of that is that Russia has been a tax refuge for well known figures like George Depardieu. Most Russians with more than a few bucks keep them in European banks, usually Switzerland, France etc. They were keeping money in Cypriot banks, but then they had that inconvenient crisis with their banking sector and the Russian plutocrats cleaned their accounts out.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Sounds like a stifled economy from people taking flight away from the motherland. That almost sounds American >>
The irony of that is that Russia has been a tax refuge for well known figures like George Depardieu. Most Russians with more than a few bucks keep them in European banks, usually Switzerland, France etc. They were keeping money in Cypriot banks, but then they had that inconvenient crisis with their banking sector and the Russian plutocrats cleaned their accounts out. >>
crony communism, not much different than crony capitalism
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Isn't Putin one of wealthiest people in the world? Why anyone is "afraid" of this guy is humorous. >>
The people over whom he wields great power have legitimate reason for fear. Rule applies to any nation where power has been unchecked. Most nations are in this boat.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Back on topic here now, in Ukraine nobody stored any value in money in anything but dollars or gold. Gold made doors open to government offices very easily. >>
Interesting, so nobody saved in the hryvnia? Since you lived there and have a better perspective on this than anyone else here, what do you think will happen? Will the people of Crimea willing leave the Ukraine and join the Russians? >>
Before 1783 Crimea was part of Ottoman Empire - where the Tatars play in - Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine as gift celebrating the 300th anniversary of Ukrainian Hetman Khelminitsky allied with Russian Empire of Tsar Aleksey. Before then Ukraine had mostly been a part of Polish Lithuanian commonwealth which is why Ukrainian language has many words that sound Polish(I can understand Polish because it similar to Russian).
Crimea having been more a part of Russia and with mostly Russians, a few Ukrainians and of course the Tatars - most of the loyalty is towards Russia - especially with all the political discord in Ukraine. One of my friends there was posting on the Russian version of facebook about how Ukraine has everything going for it, the best educated people, great soil and industry but lousy and crooked politicians - it is so true.
I can see the tone in E. Ukraine is turning towards letting Crimea go but not E. Ukraine - they want to speak Russian like we used to, but be a part of Ukraine. All the drums of war are beating on both sides - mainly by Russia, America and Europe and not so much in Ukraine. A country that was run over by the Soviets and the Nazis really doesn't want to be destroyed again.
Yeah, nobody saved stupid hryvnia. It has gone from 5 to the dollar in early 2008 to now 11 to the dollar. Ruble is slipping badly too.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Ukrainian government also needs $15 Billion to stay solvent. My father was Ukrainian and I have relatives over there. Putin is already amassing troops on the border. So not just default, but possibly war or civil war. Kerry offered $1 Billion in aid, though not enough to prevent chaos.
I see this as another Arab Spring for them. The Ukrainians see how corrupt their government is and Putin fears it will spill over to Russia. Both countries are being run by the mob. Ukrainian's former President lived very opulently and now is being hunted for war crimes.
Putin Outfoxes Ukrainian Protestors >>
It is very personal for me also - my family is Ukrainian and Russian, we have family there in the E. part of Ukraine and lots of friends there from when I lived there. We were just talking with some of them on skype earlier this evening. What is very fascinating is there are a lot of pro-Ukrainian peaceful protests that are NOT getting coverage in the west. The Russians literally bussed in hundreds of protesters to takeover the regional government building - kind of like "phantom residents" and they are doing it in Krim also.
But my friend sends pictures from the pro-Ukraine protests last night:
Oh I tell them they will start invasion of single American soldiers.
Problem is in Ukraine as you note, not many in politics are without blood on their hands. Yatsunyak is not a bad guy really, but having talked to his campaign people during the 2010 election I can tell you he is WAY over his head being thrust into the Prime Minister position. He also has problem in that though he is a practicing Orthodox Christian he has alleged Jewish ancestry in a country where that is not so popular or accepted.
Tymoschenko is lucky she was in jail - otherwise she would have been run out just like Yanukovych. She has blood all over her. When I lived there there were whispers of her being involved in disappearances of political opponents. This is all pretty foreign concept to people in America - but we were pretty used to this fun and games even 20 years after fall of USSR.
Back on topic here now, in Ukraine nobody stored any value in money in anything but dollars or gold. Gold made doors open to government offices very easily. >>
Sorry I just wanted to bump that pic forward to the next page
When you say gold , what form is it in? I've been a believer in saving some in the form of clearly stamped wedding bands and not all in coin form which is less well known to the Joe Six pack crowd. With respect to dollars, what denomination would be most useful? What about euro?,
<< <i>
Sorry I just wanted to bump that pic forward to the next page
When you say gold , what form is it in? I've been a believer in saving some in the form of clearly stamped wedding bands and not all in coin form which is less well known to the Joe Six pack crowd. With respect to dollars, what denomination would be most useful? What about euro?, >>
For me all gold was in Swiss form, usually bars like Pamp Suisse - everything from 5 gramme on up to the ounce coins. You can even buy gold in supermarket in many places in Ukraine - but it is rather a pain in the @$$ and you pay more money and have to go multiple places to pay for and then pick up. It was gold bars that got me questioned in Amsterdam a couple of years ago - they were in my carry on bag - secured deep and showed up on this metal detector. I guess if they were coins there might not have been a problem - but maybe they think the bars were weapon or something. It just really is the most convenient means of transporting larger sums of monetary instrument - everybody in the know can recognise them and sell them quickly for cash, dollars rubles or euros - but not hryven. I only kept enough hryven for grocery stores, bus fare etc. Rent on our apartments was always in dollars.
Protest in favour of peace in Donets'k
The green sign in the background in some of the shots says "Sberbank Rossii" which is one of Russia's largest banks - and a bank I probably have been into more than a few times. The cathedral in the shots is on Ul. Artyoma and is about a kilometre from my old apartment there. Shakhtar Stadium is only stones throw away also, where the Euro 2012 was held.
Ukraine is litterally on Russias doorstep and the corrupt Government brokered some deal.
Sure Canceling visas and what not is Obama pumping his fist in the air saying "the United States wont tolerate this"! but in reality this is a no win situation for the United States to get involved in and everyone knows it.
Again no disrespect to You or your loved ones Im just curious what you think could possibly be done about this by the USA.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Sorry I just wanted to bump that pic forward to the next page
When you say gold , what form is it in? I've been a believer in saving some in the form of clearly stamped wedding bands and not all in coin form which is less well known to the Joe Six pack crowd. With respect to dollars, what denomination would be most useful? What about euro?, >>
For me all gold was in Swiss form, usually bars like Pamp Suisse - everything from 5 gramme on up to the ounce coins. You can even buy gold in supermarket in many places in Ukraine - but it is rather a pain in the @$$ and you pay more money and have to go multiple places to pay for and then pick up. It was gold bars that got me questioned in Amsterdam a couple of years ago - they were in my carry on bag - secured deep and showed up on this metal detector. I guess if they were coins there might not have been a problem - but maybe they think the bars were weapon or something. It just really is the most convenient means of transporting larger sums of monetary instrument - everybody in the know can recognise them and sell them quickly for cash, dollars rubles or euros - but not hryven. I only kept enough hryven for grocery stores, bus fare etc. Rent on our apartments was always in dollars. >>
So generally gold was used for larger "transactions" . Below a certain amount paper US dollars were in demand , or were large sums in the form of paper dollars used also?
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Again no disrespect to You or your loved ones Im just curious what you think could possibly be done about this by the USA. >>
The EU, led by the former communist apparatchik Merkel, is doing nothing. Putin and Obama are beating their chests and bringing up cold war era rhetoric. The biggest problems are the EU lack of interest and the two old superpowers spouting off veiled threats of economic catastrophies they are going to visit upon one another. The EU fears a cutoff in gas, well they shouldn't have been sourcing it in the kleptocratic ex USSR.
Russia is taking advantage of a country on it's knees from a five year financial erosion. Lot of the people there in Crimea are older, retirees etc with some penchant of feeling for the USSR - and they see Putin as the knight in shining armour rebuilding the perceived glory of the USSR once more - though in reality the CIS and the Belarus-Russia unitary state are little more than window dressing - the president of Belarus is not going for anything less than premiership of the new Belarus-Russia unitary state, and Putin won't let him.
The USA sure doesn't even have a direct and clear position. You have people like McCain that are ready to send in the marines already, and others like Obama sitting around "what am I going to do, what am I going to do?" all the while making empty threats he cannot fulfill. It is just yet another example of weakness in the US government. Everybody is consumed with petty little squabbles about gay marriage and medical plans all the while the national debt climbs to unsustainable highs and the USA takes a beating in world opinion because of the ineffective leadership at the executive and legislative branches. You cannot even point a finger at one party or another - they are both miserably rotten to the core.
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<< <i>
Again no disrespect to You or your loved ones Im just curious what you think could possibly be done about this by the USA. >>
The EU, led by the former communist apparatchik Merkel, is doing nothing. Putin and Obama are beating their chests and bringing up cold war era rhetoric. The biggest problems are the EU lack of interest and the two old superpowers spouting off veiled threats of economic catastrophies they are going to visit upon one another. The EU fears a cutoff in gas, well they shouldn't have been sourcing it in the kleptocratic ex USSR.
Russia is taking advantage of a country on it's knees from a five year financial erosion. Lot of the people there in Crimea are older, retirees etc with some penchant of feeling for the USSR - and they see Putin as the knight in shining armour rebuilding the perceived glory of the USSR once more - though in reality the CIS and the Belarus-Russia unitary state are little more than window dressing - the president of Belarus is not going for anything less than premiership of the new Belarus-Russia unitary state, and Putin won't let him.
The USA sure doesn't even have a direct and clear position. You have people like McCain that are ready to send in the marines already, and others like Obama sitting around "what am I going to do, what am I going to do?" all the while making empty threats he cannot fulfill. It is just yet another example of weakness in the US government. Everybody is consumed with petty little squabbles about gay marriage and medical plans all the while the national debt climbs to unsustainable highs and the USA takes a beating in world opinion because of the ineffective leadership at the executive and legislative branches. You cannot even point a finger at one party or another - they are both miserably rotten to the core. >>
Good enough.
I am in 100% agreement with you about the current administration.
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So generally gold was used for larger "transactions" . Below a certain amount paper US dollars were in demand , or were large sums in the form of paper dollars used also? >>
Or Euros and rubles. Have to imagine a place like Costa Rica where they have an official national currency - but it is only used for day to day buy a loaf of bread sort of thing. If you bought a car or something it was always priced in Euros or dollars. The financial crisis of 2008 really hit Ukraine and Russia particularly hard, and reflected in the value of the currency so people didn't keep money in it. You can open foreign currency accounts at most banks, but the problem is - no realistic insurance if the bank collapses - which has happened, even though technically the National Bank is supposed to insure private bank accounts - in practice doesn't happen.
Well said.
The language issue is interesting. Is Ukraine spelled any different in Russian vs Ukranian? I imaged a flag with the Ukraine colors, with the nation spelled in Russian.
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The language issue is interesting. Is Ukraine spelled any different in Russian vs Ukranian? I imaged a flag with the Ukraine colors, with the nation spelled in Russian. >>
In Ukrainian "Україна" - in Russian "Украина" - the "I" is the main difference. And words and especially pronunciation are different. I don't know too many Ukrainians that don't at least understand Russian. I know more than a few Ukrainians that don't know too much Ukrainian. You have to understand that Ukrainian was only a semi-tolerated language in USSR times and it was banned during the Tsarist era until the formation of the USSR. Surprisingly the communists were more tolerant of other languages. Poets like Lesya Kovach nee "Ukrainka" and Taras Shevchenko were writing in Ukrainian and having their works published in Austria-Hungary and smuggled in. At least in the USSR their works were published in their original language - I have one printed in Kyiv in 1977 that is one of my prised possessions in my library.
Sometime if you really want to get into the Ukrainian soul I would recommend reading Lesya Ukrainka's works - Contra Spem Spero and Forest Song are my favourites.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Important vote on Sunday. >>
I think the outcome of the vote is widely known and expected. What is not known is whether or not a bullet will actually be fired. That little 56 grain piece of metal may speak louder than a million votes.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>Important vote on Sunday. >>
I think the outcome of the vote is widely known and expected. What is not known is whether or not a bullet will actually be fired. That little 56 grain piece of metal may speak louder than a million votes. >>
...and nearly as important, will Germany followed by the US and the rest of Europe, impose meaningful sanctions on Putin's Russia?
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...and nearly as important, will Germany followed by the US and the rest of Europe, impose meaningful sanctions on Putin's Russia? >>
If and in the unlikely event they do impose sanctions they will not be on Putin or Medvedev but on other lesser known figures like the governor of Crimea Aksonov etc. This is a situation where Russia caught Ukraine, Europe and America all with their pants down. And won. The only realistic consequence is a longer term plan to reduce European reliance on Russian gas and oil.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>This event will mark the loss of backing the US is accustomed to receiving from other nations. The times they are a changin'. >>
I would love to see other countries back themselves. But it aint gonna happen. A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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<< <i>
...and nearly as important, will Germany followed by the US and the rest of Europe, impose meaningful sanctions on Putin's Russia? >>
If and in the unlikely event they do impose sanctions they will not be on Putin or Medvedev but on other lesser known figures like the governor of Crimea Aksonov etc. This is a situation where Russia caught Ukraine, Europe and America all with their pants down. And won. The only realistic consequence is a longer term plan to reduce European reliance on Russian gas and oil.
Growing up in East Germany, Angela Merkel sees this through a different prism than the US golfer-in-chief or the other Euro leaders. I believe that she is more like Churchill than Chamberlain. Germans are stoic and may put a financial wrench in Putin's gambit.
<< <i>A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing. >>
Key is probably who was on that plane. Likelihood that it's currently parked at Diego Garcia where a high value target(s) was taken off of it. Note the use of stolen passports in this case. What goes on at Diego Garcia stays at Diego Garcia. If this is the case, the plane will reappear.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
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<< <i>A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing. >>
Key is probably who was on that plane. Likelihood that it's currently parked at Diego Garcia where a high value target(s) was taken off of it. Note the use of stolen passports in this case. What goes on at Diego Garcia stays at Diego Garcia. If this is the case, the plane will reappear. >>
u mean Carmen Sandiego?...lol
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<< <i>A plane goes missing on the other side of the world, and who leads the way with resources and technology? Hint, it aint the Chinese even though its their citizens that are largely missing. >>
Key is probably who was on that plane. Likelihood that it's currently parked at Diego Garcia where a high value target(s) was taken off of it. Note the use of stolen passports in this case. What goes on at Diego Garcia stays at Diego Garcia. If this is the case, the plane will reappear. >>
Doesnt the United States have a huge Naval/Air Force base there? I swore thats where we have a bunch of Tactical Bombers parked...
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Doesnt the United States have a huge Naval/Air Force base there? I swore thats where we have a bunch of Tactical Bombers parked... >>
It is one of the last of the 99 year lease bases that Britain let to the USA in 1941 in return for the 50 old destroyers. And it is a very important base as you note - B-1's fly out of there for missions in Afghanistan. It is not a huge complex, rather small by comparison, but a big presence in a part of the world with not a lot of other power players.
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Doesnt the United States have a huge Naval/Air Force base there? I swore thats where we have a bunch of Tactical Bombers parked... >>
It is one of the last of the 99 year lease bases that Britain let to the USA in 1941 in return for the 50 old destroyers. And it is a very important base as you note - B-1's fly out of there for missions in Afghanistan. It is not a huge complex, rather small by comparison, but a big presence in a part of the world with not a lot of other power players. >>
Thank You, I googled it and realized I was correct about the Bombers.
Diego Garcia's isolation in the middle of the ocean also makes it a great hidden installation. There is a lot of controversy over the way Britain first removed all of the natives and placed them into poverty and slums.
Diego Garcia recently in the news
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>If peace breaks out in the Ukraine after the vote, then what for gold? >>
It is not likely. I have family and friends on both sides of what is going on there. One thing we can all agree on though - the coup on 22 Feb was illegal in the constitution as was the trumped over vote in Crimea. The USA quickly recognized what happened in Kyiv on 22 February whilst the Russians quickly recognized what happened in Crimea on 16 March.
So the USA and Russia both won one, and left the Ukrainians out in the cold. Again.
Expecting a China move on Taiwan this year as the mainland is keen to occidental disinterest.
<< <i>Europe and US really rolled over on this one. Got to keep the stock markets at record highs, you know.
Expecting a China move on Taiwan this year as the mainland is keen to occidental disinterest. >>
Ukraine could be sacrificed - it's economy was tanked, the coffers of the treasury looted by the oligarchs and leadership(the two of which are practically indistinguishable from one another). There was nothing of value to the west. And really in the E. of Ukraine, which Russia covets, is all the heavy industry - mining, metallurgy and manufacturing. W. Ukraine where there are less Russians is mostly agricultural and small industries.
Now it seems that will be an endgame for Russia - but let us not forget that Latvija and Estonia have sizable Russian minorities - and issues with language not being permitted etc just like Ukraine. Russia will pursue a more subtle form of subterfuge to get their way in those countries. They have already moved fighter jets into Belarus in response to the US sending fighter planes to a base in the Baltics to beef up the Baltic Air Policing programme. Russia has sizable military assets in the Kaliningrad Oblast enclave north of Poland and south of Lithuania.
China and Taiwan are a whole other matter - both have very strong economies. It would even be consequential for China, unless they can continue to buy up more USA debt and then the USA will be prostate to any military moves they make because they hold the economic power. In the end - all the military might only goes so far, you have to have the economic clout behind it - note the USSR in the late 1980s - economy couldn't keep up with the growth of the military. China can sustain it's military and then some - they are building aircraft carriers and anti-ship missiles for a fraction of what the US DoD pays for theirs. Their military is being built up at a fraction of their GDP.
Not only Taiwan is a target, but potentially so are China's nearby neighbours like Japan that they have disputes with over little islets. Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia could potentially find themselves as targets of Chinese territorial grabs.
<< <i>It would even be consequential for China, unless they can continue to buy up more USA debt and then the USA will be prostate to any military moves they make because they hold the economic power. >>
We are already obsequious to and rudderless against China. Economic sanctions would cost us our clothing and Christmas toys as well as interest rates through the roof.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot. >>
I dunno, Carter showed some backbone at the Soviets after the Afghan invasion. Wheat was an important commodity that at least got the attention of our cold war counterparts.
I really expected Angela Merkel to step up to the plate as this in her back yard. Guess the movers and shakers at Davos once again prevailed.
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<< <i>Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot. >>
I dunno, Carter showed some backbone at the Soviets after the Afghan invasion. Wheat was an important commodity that at least got the attention of our cold war counterparts. >>
You would also think that the US would have learned that this no longer our father's economy.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Economic sanctions serve only to encourage a move from trading with dollars. You would think that the US would have learned that by now that it ends up shooting itself in the foot. >>
I dunno, Carter showed some backbone at the Soviets after the Afghan invasion. Wheat was an important commodity that at least got the attention of our cold war counterparts. >>
You would also think that the US would have learned that this no longer our father's economy. >>
Unless your father is Janet Yellen.
<< <i>The USA even buys gas and oil from Russia, but Europe buys much more. Perhaps it is time to reduce that dependency on an unreliable and erratic supplier. >>
Tough to do the right thing when the gas nozzle is held to a nations head. Same reason we have kissed the Middle East's butt since WWII.
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Tough to do the right thing when the gas nozzle is held to a nations head. Same reason we have kissed the Middle East's butt since WWII. >>
There really should be a new update to "The Prize" - detailing all the world powers plays in that region of the world. Think Suez crisis, Gulf War, Yom Kippur war etc etc etc.
"Putin calls on billionaires to pay taxes in Russia"
Sounds like a stifled economy from people taking flight away from the motherland. That almost sounds American
<< <i>Saw this headline "in the news":
"Putin calls on billionaires to pay taxes in Russia"
Sounds like a stifled economy from people taking flight away from the motherland. That almost sounds American
The irony of that is that Russia has been a tax refuge for well known figures like George Depardieu. Most Russians with more than a few bucks keep them in European banks, usually Switzerland, France etc. They were keeping money in Cypriot banks, but then they had that inconvenient crisis with their banking sector and the Russian plutocrats cleaned their accounts out.
<< <i>
<< <i>Saw this headline "in the news":
"Putin calls on billionaires to pay taxes in Russia"
Sounds like a stifled economy from people taking flight away from the motherland. That almost sounds American
The irony of that is that Russia has been a tax refuge for well known figures like George Depardieu. Most Russians with more than a few bucks keep them in European banks, usually Switzerland, France etc. They were keeping money in Cypriot banks, but then they had that inconvenient crisis with their banking sector and the Russian plutocrats cleaned their accounts out. >>
crony communism, not much different than crony capitalism
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
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crony communism, not much different than crony capitalism >>
When you have lived under both systems you see lots of ironies despite all the rhetoric.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Isn't Putin one of wealthiest people in the world? Why anyone is "afraid" of this guy is humorous. >>
The people over whom he wields great power have legitimate reason for fear. Rule applies to any nation where power has been unchecked. Most nations are in this boat.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Isn't Putin one of wealthiest people in the world? Why anyone is "afraid" of this guy is humorous. >>
Hell, he may force every Russian and Ukranian to send 12% of their income to the Oligarchs, on top of the taxes that they already pay.
Kind of like Obamacare I suppose.
Putin's biggest supporters are also some of the biggest tax dodgers - just don't cross him like Mikhail Khodorovsky did and you will stay out of jail.