<< <i> Yup...hated so much all the way to the bank. He made his fortune after the fall of the USSR. I wonder where he stashes his loot. >>
He made his loot doing stuff like speaking tours and advertisments for businesses like Pizza Hut - he keeps a low profile in Russia because many blame him and not the Communist party for the demise of the USSR.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i> Yup...hated so much all the way to the bank. He made his fortune after the fall of the USSR. I wonder where he stashes his loot. >>
He made his loot doing stuff like speaking tours and advertisments for businesses like Pizza Hut - he keeps a low profile in Russia because many blame him and not the Communist party for the demise of the USSR. >>
In addition...He won the Nobel Peace price in 1990..that's a cool 1 Million $. Main sources of income is from paid lectures across the world and book royalties. I'm sure the 1997/1998 Pizza Hut commercial did bring in some major additional change in the tune of another 1 Million. So where does he keep his change?
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Gorbachev by far is the oldest leader/former leader that Russia has ever had. He draws a presidential pension but I am pretty sure while he lives comfortably he will leave some money to his daughters and grandchildren.
The irony of Gorbachev offering opinions on current events is that it is all for western consumption - he is irrelevant in the former USSR and I only scarcely see reference to him in Russian language media I read.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>If peace breaks out in the Ukraine after the vote, then what for gold? >>
We already have a "what then." Gold is back to the $1320-$1350 trading range it was in when the Ukraine events started to heat up in February. After a 55 trading day / 3 month rally it was time to put the brakes on any ways. It's probably correcting the 3 month rise right now. If the Ukraine didn't heat up gold probably would have stopped going up at $1350 to $1375. As it was, it overheated a bit and dragged gold higher for a few more weeks. Gold has so far only corrected 33% of the Dec-March rise. So if it goes a fair amount lower (-38%/-50%) than $1320 it won't be because of the Ukraine.
I think short term things are going to settle down with Ukraine, but now Pridnestriya is talking about being absorbed by Russia. Most westerners haven't heard of the place, but it is betwixt Ukraine and Moldova and split off from Moldova in 1992 when there was talk of Moldova becoming part of Romania.
It is one of those places that is one of the rather creepier places I have ever been - no doubt being there illegally without a visa sparked my fears - but it is a real throwback to living in the old Soviet Union - hammers and sickles still on their coins, communists everywhere. I only went through there because as one of the interesting things the breakup of the USSR did was that places that used to be just another region of the country became their own countries and during the USSR roads crossed over regional, republic boundaries without a thought that someday an international boundary would be there. So occasionally when travelling from one place in Odessa Oblast in Ukraine to another you have to more or less sneak across what is now an international border and pray you are not caught.
I haven't done it, but occasionally in eastern Ukraine you have drives where you have to venture through a little bit of Russian territory.
I tend to doubt that Russia is going to do much to absorb Pridnestriya - even though they do have 1,000 soldiers there - there really is nothing of realistic value to the Russian economy - sure as hell is not a tourist hotspot, no wine growing like Crimea and Moldova proper either. Russia is only going to spout words to tweek Ukrainians some more - because it is on the other side of the country.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>I think short term things are going to settle down with Ukraine, but now Pridnestriya is talking about being absorbed by Russia. >>
Thank you for your insights, SaorAlba. Tough to gauge what Putins end game is, but clearly the US and Western Europe have provided zero punitive incentives for him to stop now.
It is like 1938 all over again. Europe and the US are going to bend over and take it like a dog instead of firmly standing up to an act of aggression. The US government is clearly implicated in the overthrow of Yanukovych - but that is as far as the US will go. Putin saw an opportunity and took it. He will do it again, think Kazakhstan with a large Russian population and not to mention the Gorod Zvezda rocket launching facility, Latvia and Estonia with a large Russian minority and a land bridge to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad.
NATO is meaningless. If the US were attacked by a power such as Russia or China you can bet your bottom that Europe is going to turn tail and run. I'm not so sure that NATO would have been meaningful even if longtime members like Turkey were attacked. You think the average French or German citizen gives a rat's bum about Turkey? They don't even believe Turkey is part of Europe, even with a part of Turkey in Europe. Turkey and Greece were only admitted to NATO because of American insistence on their membership.
I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>It is like 1938 all over again. Europe and the US are going to bend over and take it like a dog instead of firmly standing up to an act of aggression. The US government is clearly implicated in the overthrow of Yanukovych - but that is as far as the US will go. Putin saw an opportunity and took it. He will do it again, think Kazakhstan with a large Russian population and not to mention the Gorod Zvezda rocket launching facility, Latvia and Estonia with a large Russian minority and a land bridge to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad.
NATO is meaningless. If the US were attacked by a power such as Russia or China you can bet your bottom that Europe is going to turn tail and run. I'm not so sure that NATO would have been meaningful even if longtime members like Turkey were attacked. You think the average French or German citizen gives a rat's bum about Turkey? They don't even believe Turkey is part of Europe, even with a part of Turkey in Europe. Turkey and Greece were only admitted to NATO because of American insistence on their membership.
I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO. >>
I agree in part of what your saying. Ofcourse the EU wouldnt want to get involved if China and Russia attacked the United States but that is completely not going to happen. Cold War or no cold war the term MADD exists to this day, The United States has enough Nuclear Weapons to assure the destruction of Russia AND China and they know this so an attack would be meaningless even if they both teamed up on us, ofcourse the United States knows Russia can destroy us as well hence we wouldnt engage them militarily without being shot at first. Britain is the only real friend we have in my opinion, Germany and France have no interest in defending anyone except themselves but need the assurance of the United States defending them against Russian aggression. Turkey is a key US ally do to its strategic landmark in the middle east nothing more nothing less.
Canada and Mexico are both weak in military terms and wouldnt offer much in regards to a NATO led military campain such as Iraq and afhganistan type wars where UK and France/Germany assisted more than they did.
What I fear is Russia going after all these states that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think then we would be in high gear of a catastrophic war.
<< <i>I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO. >>
I would rather go to war with Britain at my side, than Mexico. >>
I agree that Britain is a special case - they have a way of going their way vs. Europe already. Some nations like Italy and France are fair weather friends - they haven't had a good history of reliable alliances in the past couple of hundred years. Britain has a much better history - they have an active alliance with Portugal that dates to some treaty in the 14th century.
Right at this moment Russia has amassed 20k soldiers closely to the Ukrainian border - they say these are pre-planned wargames, but.. they have clearly stated that if they feel their interests in E. Ukraine are threatened they will move into E. Ukraine. People there in the east are becoming very concerned. Even my more pro-Russian friends are getting antsy because of the real threat of a military conflict breaking out - particularly in one case where a friend has a military age son. Russia is playing for time, and seeing the weak kneed response they got from the EU and the USA over Crimea being annexed to Russia, they may well figure that the EU and USA will do nothing more than offer ridiculous and toothless threats if the USSR, whoops I mean Russia goes and moves their military forces into eastern Ukraine.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
I agree in part of what your saying. Ofcourse the EU wouldnt want to get involved if China and Russia attacked the United States but that is completely not going to happen. Cold War or no cold war the term MADD exists to this day, The United States has enough Nuclear Weapons to assure the destruction of Russia AND China and they know this so an attack would be meaningless even if they both teamed up on us, ofcourse the United States knows Russia can destroy us as well hence we wouldnt engage them militarily without being shot at first. Britain is the only real friend we have in my opinion, Germany and France have no interest in defending anyone except themselves but need the assurance of the United States defending them against Russian aggression. Turkey is a key US ally do to its strategic landmark in the middle east nothing more nothing less.
Canada and Mexico are both weak in military terms and wouldnt offer much in regards to a NATO led military campain such as Iraq and afhganistan type wars where UK and France/Germany assisted more than they did.
What I fear is Russia going after all these states that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think then we would be in high gear of a catastrophic war. >>
MADD only works if the Russian hackers haven't taken down all grids in the US nuclear arsenal. I agree that Germany wants to defend itself, but I am not so sure France wants to even do that much for itself - they have a long history(WWI, WWII) of sitting back and letting other countries do most their fighting. France only uses it's military to limited degrees when they are an overwhelming force vs. some spear throwing natives in Africa or the South Pacific. I'm not so sure France could manage a real military conflict even vs some tiny state like Monaco.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
I agree in part of what your saying. Ofcourse the EU wouldnt want to get involved if China and Russia attacked the United States but that is completely not going to happen. Cold War or no cold war the term MADD exists to this day, The United States has enough Nuclear Weapons to assure the destruction of Russia AND China and they know this so an attack would be meaningless even if they both teamed up on us, ofcourse the United States knows Russia can destroy us as well hence we wouldnt engage them militarily without being shot at first. Britain is the only real friend we have in my opinion, Germany and France have no interest in defending anyone except themselves but need the assurance of the United States defending them against Russian aggression. Turkey is a key US ally do to its strategic landmark in the middle east nothing more nothing less.
Canada and Mexico are both weak in military terms and wouldnt offer much in regards to a NATO led military campain such as Iraq and afhganistan type wars where UK and France/Germany assisted more than they did.
What I fear is Russia going after all these states that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think then we would be in high gear of a catastrophic war. >>
MADD only works if the Russian hackers haven't taken down all grids in the US nuclear arsenal. I agree that Germany wants to defend itself, but I am not so sure France wants to even do that much for itself - they have a long history(WWI, WWII) of sitting back and letting other countries do most their fighting. France only uses it's military to limited degrees when they are an overwhelming force vs. some spear throwing natives in Africa or the South Pacific. I'm not so sure France could manage a real military conflict even vs some tiny state like Monaco. >>
That is absurd to even think Russian hackers or anyone could disarm us, not to mention our Missiles are not all home based in the NorthWest. Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well so believe me MAD plays the trump card ( I hope )
Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking.
You think the average French or German citizen gives a rat's bum about Turkey? They don't even believe Turkey is part of Europe, even with a part of Turkey in Europe
45 million Muslims live in Europe (not counting Turkey). That population is bested by only 8 other countries and more than Iraq and Afghanistan.
The "average" citizen doesnt care, but 45 million would.
Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well
The next big war is not going to involve direct destruction - ie bombs raining down on military facilities - rather it is going to be an electronic war where power grids, financial systems, and communication means are going to be brought down. The Chinese, Russians and Americans have been playing a little behind the scenes cyber war for over a decade. Don't underestimate the adversaries - they could unleash what they have done in Estonia, Ukraine and Georgia on a much greater scale. Conversely the US has and will do the same to the potential adversaries.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
That is absurd to even think Russian hackers or anyone could disarm us, not to mention our Missiles are not all home based in the NorthWest. Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well so believe me MAD plays the trump card ( I hope )
Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
I hope you are right, but the facts state something else - the first thing the Russians did in the Georgian war in 2008 was brought down all their websites, financial, communications systems with DoS - denial of service attacks. You don't have to drop a real bomb to do a huge amount of damage. Even in situations where there was no real "military" clash, but where a government did something unpopular - like removing a Soviet era statue of a Russian soldier in Tallinn Estonia - the DoS attacks are conjectured to have originated in Russia.
Are you aware that the whole Target Stores credit card hacking programme originated with a 17 year old Russian student - allegedly. I think there is some gray matter going on there with blame - ie more official involvement in the Russian Federation.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
That is absurd to even think Russian hackers or anyone could disarm us, not to mention our Missiles are not all home based in the NorthWest. Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well so believe me MAD plays the trump card ( I hope )
Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
I hope you are right, but the facts state something else - the first thing the Russians did in the Georgian war in 2008 was brought down all their websites, financial, communications systems with DoS - denial of service attacks. You don't have to drop a real bomb to do a huge amount of damage. Even in situations where there was no real "military" clash, but where a government did something unpopular - like removing a Soviet era statue of a Russian soldier in Tallinn Estonia - the DoS attacks are conjectured to have originated in Russia.
Are you aware that the whole Target Stores credit card hacking programme originated with a 17 year old Russian student - allegedly. I think there is some gray matter going on there with blame - ie more official involvement in the Russian Federation. >>
A couple of things to consider though
#1 Georgia is a third world country compared to the United States and Russia #2 I promise you the Target Chains security measures are not in the same universe as the ones that protect our national defense systems
I do agree that a war will more than likely be of the cyber type aimed at finances ect, but I refuse to believe that the Russians are capable of doing anything that we are not capable of doing nor that we are not prepared for.
I truly believe that the United States has a deep secret and that secret is we are overly scared of threats and have things in place for SHTF scenarios and we are prepared, there are things going on every second that dont hit the media and probably dont even get brought to the attention of the president. I may be wrong but that is my feelings.
<< <i>Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
France may not account for much now in terms of stomach for war, but that applies to all of Europe, a place afflicted by armed conflict as a matter of cultural inclination until the process thoroughly traumatized the continent in the two World Wars.
As for France itself, it was the premier martial nation of Europe for centuries. Napoleon's armies were without peer, and account for many of our military terms, organization and titles to this day.
France fought ferociously in WWI; if they had a Viet Nam Memorial Wall for their WWI casualties, it would be 16 miles long. They were bled white. In WWII, they were strategically outflanked by a modern, skilled and mechanized German army in their effort to refight WWI.
The French may be obnoxious and unreliable as allies in the post WWII era, but to term the French "cowardly," I believe, is a gross misapplication.
""(Reuters) - Ukrainian police have seized 42 kilograms of gold and $4.8 million in cash during a search of the apartments of Ukraine's former Energy Minister Eduard Stavytsky, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on Saturday.""
<< <i>Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
France may not account for much now in terms of stomach for war, but that applies to all of Europe, a place afflicted by armed conflict as a matter of cultural inclination until the process thoroughly traumatized the continent in the two World Wars.
As for France itself, it was the premier martial nation of Europe for centuries. Napoleon's armies were without peer, and account for many of our military terms, organization and titles to this day.
France fought ferociously in WWI; if they had a Viet Nam Memorial Wall for their WWI casualties, it would be 16 miles long. They were bled white. In WWII, they were strategically outflanked by a modern, skilled and mechanized German army in their effort to refight WWI.
The French may be obnoxious and unreliable as allies in the post WWII era, but to term the French "cowardly," I believe, is a gross misapplication. >>
You are correct I shouldnt have said "Historically speaking" I should have been more specific and said "France has been a cowardly nation for about 100 years"
<< <i>I am no peacenik, but we have no business sending troops into Ukraine. We have enough problems and now they are downsizing the military to pre-WWII levels.... Cheers, RickO >>
I am going to state categorically that I know people keep gold in their portfolio in Ukraine - but the one's I know fly off to Switzerland to deposit it. Which is why the smart people want Swiss gold ie Pamp Suisse bars. The energy minister must have been some complete dumb@$$ to keep the gold and cash in his home.
Let me state something about banking in Ukraine. Security in banks is not discreet with nothing more than seemingly unarmed security peeking at you from some remote windowless office - rather they are right in the lobby when cash comes and goes - and well armed with AK-47s with respectably large ammo clips.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
All trade between the EU and Russia may cease eventually. U.S. companies and foreign investment pulling out of Russia? Since this happened in the spring, gas supplies may be not as crucial from Russia, thus giving the EU more time to get gas supplies from other sources. Russia is already kicked out of the G8. Could they be kicked out of the G20 or the UN?
<< <i>All trade between the EU and Russia may cease eventually. U.S. companies and foreign investment pulling out of Russia? Since this happened in the spring, gas supplies may be not as crucial from Russia, thus giving the EU more time to get gas supplies from other sources. Russia is already kicked out of the G8. Could they be kicked out of the G20 or the UN? >>
I follow some Russian social networks and news sites. The commentary is fascinating, it very much reverberates what was going on in late 2002 and early 2003 when a particular nation was pretty much going it alone vs. the rest of the world in pursuit of alleged munitions that turned out to not exist. Lots of chest beating is going on, howls for finishing off the job - other dumb comments like Europe is going to get it this time. In other words nothing changes, just the place and the time. Right now Russia is massing 60K soldiers on the border with Ukraine and there are lots of anti-Ukrainian postings showing up.
The Russians know that Europe is prostrate without their gas. Germany is demonstrating more by doing nothing at all. Poland is repeating previous calls for more US military bases in Poland. I saw somewhere that someone commented maybe they could rely on Germany for military support - yeah right. There are still Poles alive that remember Germany's last foray into Polish territory.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
This is one of the most interesting threads. As it concerns gold, it seems that when push comes to shove, nobody's going to let you use your gold as a safety valve for your family unless you already have numerous connections with the government(s).
It looks more like us vs. them every day.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I am no peacenik, but we have no business sending troops into Ukraine. We have enough problems and now they are downsizing the military to pre-WWII levels.... Cheers, RickO >>
Agreed! >>
Yeah, we have our boys spread pretty thin policing nations who hate us, already. And we don't do ourselves any favors , as neighbors, when we try to dictate "democracy" without establishing it and proving HOW capitalism really works. Trickle down so everyone can be a HAVE and not a HAVE NOT for some DICTATING REGIME. I don't care what name we put on it. As long as we keep THE PEOPLE dumbed down, the rulers and leaders (governments of, by and for the people) are at peace. It's when the people are given knowledge and freedom, that it is quickly taken away.
We are armed in the U.S. Imagine if THE PEOPLE were armed in Europe. Would there be more crime or more peace ? Arms … we raise them, we sell them, we load them, we break them.
This thread takes me off of the whole idea of gold and more about "governance". That's a difficult ball to roll around here.
<< <i>This is one of the most interesting threads. As it concerns gold, it seems that when push comes to shove, nobody's going to let you use your gold as a safety valve for your family unless you already have numerous connections with the government(s).
It looks more like us vs. them every day. >>
Some fools are clueless that is for sure. Several of my friends in the old country have lost everything a time or two when governments and their monetary systems collapsed ie, the fall of the USSR, then the gradual erosion of the Ukrainian karbovnets currency that existed from 1992-1996. Believe me, they don't put their money in the local bank or under their mattress. Shopping trips to Geneva and Zurich have double meanings. One of my relatives is still drawing annuity payments for back salary from the early 1990s. Most everybody including some of my family, had privatisation cheques that subsequently became worthless - and some almost worthless, ie like now 3 hryven in a state run bank account.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
I am a lot less concerned about what Obama thinks, ie calling Russia a regional power(a ridiculous soundbite that he chit and giggled about no doubt), and more concerned with what Angela Merkel thinks and acts on. The economic ball is in her court. This is a European problem, a European security issue.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i> and more concerned with what Angela Merkel thinks and acts on. The economic ball is in her court. This is a European problem, a European security issue. >>
Rather than the cold War, this will be the digital economic war. Germany and the UK could survive economic hardship, the rest or Europe would continue on its 5 year path of deep dive.
This morning I went to the PO to mail a card over to a relative in Ukraine. The postal clerk had the nerve to ask me if the place still existed. Should have belted out the first stanza of the Ukrainian national anthem "Ще не вмерла Україна" - which means "Ukraine has not perished yet"
One thing I am noticing is that in the east things are starting to calm down with the pro-Russia protests there, where before they were having 20-30k people show up, now they are lucky if they can get 1000-2000 to show up. Some of it is no doubt apathy, but then Russia actually massing troops on the border and the threat of a shooting war has a way of subduing people's passions for Russian rule. Maybe if the coup government in Kyiv can make some concessions and recognise Russian as a language on par with Ukrainian, which it in reality is demographically - and guarantee the right to use Russian then protest will completely fizzle out.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>This morning I went to the PO to mail a card over to a relative in Ukraine. The postal clerk had the nerve to ask me if the place still existed. >>
Surprised that you found a postal clerk that even heard of The Ukraine.
Keep in mind, this is just "the news". Without substantiating all the facts, I must offer a disclaimer in noting that I'm just reporting in my pajamas from abroad.
Let the looting from Russia begin. The question is what has Russia seized any other gold or museum treasures from Crimea. Remember, Crimea voted for this, so I guess they are ok with it.
Was planning when we were returning to Ukraine next month to visit Crimea, primarily Yalta but also Kherson(because of the ancient ruins and the coins I collect from there) Trip was tabled back in January.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i>Read the other day that Putin has increased the price of natural gas by 35% to the Ukrainians.
He is salivating until he can pounce on the remainder of the region.
Meanwhile our Commander is busy pushing the ACA on Ellen. >>
erm, he's been in Europe all week discussing the issue and nuke security with European leaders, and as noted above kicked Russia out of the G8. That's what you wanted him to be doing, yes?
Comments
Surprised that the "Tear down this Wall" guy was still alive.
<< <i>Mikhail Gorbachev supports the annexation.
Surprised that the "Tear down this Wall" guy was still alive. >>
He is hated in Russia.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mikhail Gorbachev supports the annexation.
Surprised that the "Tear down this Wall" guy was still alive. >>
He is hated in Russia. >>
Yup...hated so much all the way to the bank. He made his fortune after the fall of the USSR. I wonder where he stashes his loot.
<< <i>
Yup...hated so much all the way to the bank. He made his fortune after the fall of the USSR. I wonder where he stashes his loot. >>
He made his loot doing stuff like speaking tours and advertisments for businesses like Pizza Hut - he keeps a low profile in Russia because many blame him and not the Communist party for the demise of the USSR.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Yup...hated so much all the way to the bank. He made his fortune after the fall of the USSR. I wonder where he stashes his loot. >>
He made his loot doing stuff like speaking tours and advertisments for businesses like Pizza Hut - he keeps a low profile in Russia because many blame him and not the Communist party for the demise of the USSR. >>
In addition...He won the Nobel Peace price in 1990..that's a cool 1 Million $. Main sources of income is from paid lectures across the world and book royalties. I'm sure the 1997/1998 Pizza Hut commercial did bring in some major additional change in the tune of another 1 Million. So where does he keep his change?
The irony of Gorbachev offering opinions on current events is that it is all for western consumption - he is irrelevant in the former USSR and I only scarcely see reference to him in Russian language media I read.
<< <i>If peace breaks out in the Ukraine after the vote, then what for gold? >>
We already have a "what then." Gold is back to the $1320-$1350 trading range it was in when the Ukraine events started to heat up in February. After a 55 trading day / 3 month rally it was time to put the brakes on any ways.
It's probably correcting the 3 month rise right now. If the Ukraine didn't heat up gold probably would have stopped going up at $1350 to $1375. As it was, it overheated a bit and dragged gold higher for a few more weeks. Gold
has so far only corrected 33% of the Dec-March rise. So if it goes a fair amount lower (-38%/-50%) than $1320 it won't be because of the Ukraine.
It is one of those places that is one of the rather creepier places I have ever been - no doubt being there illegally without a visa sparked my fears - but it is a real throwback to living in the old Soviet Union - hammers and sickles still on their coins, communists everywhere. I only went through there because as one of the interesting things the breakup of the USSR did was that places that used to be just another region of the country became their own countries and during the USSR roads crossed over regional, republic boundaries without a thought that someday an international boundary would be there. So occasionally when travelling from one place in Odessa Oblast in Ukraine to another you have to more or less sneak across what is now an international border and pray you are not caught.
I haven't done it, but occasionally in eastern Ukraine you have drives where you have to venture through a little bit of Russian territory.
I tend to doubt that Russia is going to do much to absorb Pridnestriya - even though they do have 1,000 soldiers there - there really is nothing of realistic value to the Russian economy - sure as hell is not a tourist hotspot, no wine growing like Crimea and Moldova proper either. Russia is only going to spout words to tweek Ukrainians some more - because it is on the other side of the country.
<< <i>I think short term things are going to settle down with Ukraine, but now Pridnestriya is talking about being absorbed by Russia. >>
Thank you for your insights, SaorAlba. Tough to gauge what Putins end game is, but clearly the US and Western Europe have provided zero punitive incentives for him to stop now.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
NATO is meaningless. If the US were attacked by a power such as Russia or China you can bet your bottom that Europe is going to turn tail and run. I'm not so sure that NATO would have been meaningful even if longtime members like Turkey were attacked. You think the average French or German citizen gives a rat's bum about Turkey? They don't even believe Turkey is part of Europe, even with a part of Turkey in Europe. Turkey and Greece were only admitted to NATO because of American insistence on their membership.
I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO.
<< <i>I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO. >>
I would rather go to war with Britain at my side, than Mexico.
<< <i>It is like 1938 all over again. Europe and the US are going to bend over and take it like a dog instead of firmly standing up to an act of aggression. The US government is clearly implicated in the overthrow of Yanukovych - but that is as far as the US will go. Putin saw an opportunity and took it. He will do it again, think Kazakhstan with a large Russian population and not to mention the Gorod Zvezda rocket launching facility, Latvia and Estonia with a large Russian minority and a land bridge to the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad.
NATO is meaningless. If the US were attacked by a power such as Russia or China you can bet your bottom that Europe is going to turn tail and run. I'm not so sure that NATO would have been meaningful even if longtime members like Turkey were attacked. You think the average French or German citizen gives a rat's bum about Turkey? They don't even believe Turkey is part of Europe, even with a part of Turkey in Europe. Turkey and Greece were only admitted to NATO because of American insistence on their membership.
I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO. >>
I agree in part of what your saying. Ofcourse the EU wouldnt want to get involved if China and Russia attacked the United States but that is completely not going to happen. Cold War or no cold war the term MADD exists to this day, The United States has enough Nuclear Weapons to assure the destruction of Russia AND China and they know this so an attack would be meaningless even if they both teamed up on us, ofcourse the United States knows Russia can destroy us as well hence we wouldnt engage them militarily without being shot at first. Britain is the only real friend we have in my opinion, Germany and France have no interest in defending anyone except themselves but need the assurance of the United States defending them against Russian aggression. Turkey is a key US ally do to its strategic landmark in the middle east nothing more nothing less.
Canada and Mexico are both weak in military terms and wouldnt offer much in regards to a NATO led military campain such as Iraq and afhganistan type wars where UK and France/Germany assisted more than they did.
What I fear is Russia going after all these states that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think then we would be in high gear of a catastrophic war.
<< <i>
<< <i>I really believe the USA and Canada and Mexico need to form their own N. American alliance and the former two need to doff NATO. >>
I would rather go to war with Britain at my side, than Mexico. >>
I agree that Britain is a special case - they have a way of going their way vs. Europe already. Some nations like Italy and France are fair weather friends - they haven't had a good history of reliable alliances in the past couple of hundred years. Britain has a much better history - they have an active alliance with Portugal that dates to some treaty in the 14th century.
Right at this moment Russia has amassed 20k soldiers closely to the Ukrainian border - they say these are pre-planned wargames, but.. they have clearly stated that if they feel their interests in E. Ukraine are threatened they will move into E. Ukraine. People there in the east are becoming very concerned. Even my more pro-Russian friends are getting antsy because of the real threat of a military conflict breaking out - particularly in one case where a friend has a military age son. Russia is playing for time, and seeing the weak kneed response they got from the EU and the USA over Crimea being annexed to Russia, they may well figure that the EU and USA will do nothing more than offer ridiculous and toothless threats if the USSR, whoops I mean Russia goes and moves their military forces into eastern Ukraine.
<< <i>[
I agree in part of what your saying. Ofcourse the EU wouldnt want to get involved if China and Russia attacked the United States but that is completely not going to happen. Cold War or no cold war the term MADD exists to this day, The United States has enough Nuclear Weapons to assure the destruction of Russia AND China and they know this so an attack would be meaningless even if they both teamed up on us, ofcourse the United States knows Russia can destroy us as well hence we wouldnt engage them militarily without being shot at first. Britain is the only real friend we have in my opinion, Germany and France have no interest in defending anyone except themselves but need the assurance of the United States defending them against Russian aggression. Turkey is a key US ally do to its strategic landmark in the middle east nothing more nothing less.
Canada and Mexico are both weak in military terms and wouldnt offer much in regards to a NATO led military campain such as Iraq and afhganistan type wars where UK and France/Germany assisted more than they did.
What I fear is Russia going after all these states that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think then we would be in high gear of a catastrophic war. >>
MADD only works if the Russian hackers haven't taken down all grids in the US nuclear arsenal. I agree that Germany wants to defend itself, but I am not so sure France wants to even do that much for itself - they have a long history(WWI, WWII) of sitting back and letting other countries do most their fighting. France only uses it's military to limited degrees when they are an overwhelming force vs. some spear throwing natives in Africa or the South Pacific. I'm not so sure France could manage a real military conflict even vs some tiny state like Monaco.
<< <i>MADD only works if the Russian hackers haven't taken down all grids in the US nuclear arsenal. >>
MADD works because of our stealthy Trident submarine fleet.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>
<< <i>[
I agree in part of what your saying. Ofcourse the EU wouldnt want to get involved if China and Russia attacked the United States but that is completely not going to happen. Cold War or no cold war the term MADD exists to this day, The United States has enough Nuclear Weapons to assure the destruction of Russia AND China and they know this so an attack would be meaningless even if they both teamed up on us, ofcourse the United States knows Russia can destroy us as well hence we wouldnt engage them militarily without being shot at first. Britain is the only real friend we have in my opinion, Germany and France have no interest in defending anyone except themselves but need the assurance of the United States defending them against Russian aggression. Turkey is a key US ally do to its strategic landmark in the middle east nothing more nothing less.
Canada and Mexico are both weak in military terms and wouldnt offer much in regards to a NATO led military campain such as Iraq and afhganistan type wars where UK and France/Germany assisted more than they did.
What I fear is Russia going after all these states that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think then we would be in high gear of a catastrophic war. >>
MADD only works if the Russian hackers haven't taken down all grids in the US nuclear arsenal. I agree that Germany wants to defend itself, but I am not so sure France wants to even do that much for itself - they have a long history(WWI, WWII) of sitting back and letting other countries do most their fighting. France only uses it's military to limited degrees when they are an overwhelming force vs. some spear throwing natives in Africa or the South Pacific. I'm not so sure France could manage a real military conflict even vs some tiny state like Monaco. >>
That is absurd to even think Russian hackers or anyone could disarm us, not to mention our Missiles are not all home based in the NorthWest. Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well so believe me MAD plays the trump card ( I hope )
Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking.
45 million Muslims live in Europe (not counting Turkey). That population is bested by only 8 other countries and more than Iraq and Afghanistan.
The "average" citizen doesnt care, but 45 million would.
Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well
Viva la US $.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
That is absurd to even think Russian hackers or anyone could disarm us, not to mention our Missiles are not all home based in the NorthWest. Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well so believe me MAD plays the trump card ( I hope )
Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
I hope you are right, but the facts state something else - the first thing the Russians did in the Georgian war in 2008 was brought down all their websites, financial, communications systems with DoS - denial of service attacks. You don't have to drop a real bomb to do a huge amount of damage. Even in situations where there was no real "military" clash, but where a government did something unpopular - like removing a Soviet era statue of a Russian soldier in Tallinn Estonia - the DoS attacks are conjectured to have originated in Russia.
Are you aware that the whole Target Stores credit card hacking programme originated with a 17 year old Russian student - allegedly. I think there is some gray matter going on there with blame - ie more official involvement in the Russian Federation.
<< <i>
<< <i>
That is absurd to even think Russian hackers or anyone could disarm us, not to mention our Missiles are not all home based in the NorthWest. Like Derry said our Submarines are well armed and our naval and Air forces as well so believe me MAD plays the trump card ( I hope )
Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
I hope you are right, but the facts state something else - the first thing the Russians did in the Georgian war in 2008 was brought down all their websites, financial, communications systems with DoS - denial of service attacks. You don't have to drop a real bomb to do a huge amount of damage. Even in situations where there was no real "military" clash, but where a government did something unpopular - like removing a Soviet era statue of a Russian soldier in Tallinn Estonia - the DoS attacks are conjectured to have originated in Russia.
Are you aware that the whole Target Stores credit card hacking programme originated with a 17 year old Russian student - allegedly. I think there is some gray matter going on there with blame - ie more official involvement in the Russian Federation. >>
A couple of things to consider though
#1 Georgia is a third world country compared to the United States and Russia
#2 I promise you the Target Chains security measures are not in the same universe as the ones that protect our national defense systems
I do agree that a war will more than likely be of the cyber type aimed at finances ect, but I refuse to believe that the Russians are capable of doing anything that we are not capable of doing nor that we are not prepared for.
I truly believe that the United States has a deep secret and that secret is we are overly scared of threats and have things in place for SHTF scenarios and we are prepared, there are things going on every second that dont hit the media and probably dont even get brought to the attention of the president. I may be wrong but that is my feelings.
<< <i>Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
France may not account for much now in terms of stomach for war, but that applies to all of Europe, a place afflicted by armed conflict as a matter of cultural inclination until the process thoroughly traumatized the continent in the two World Wars.
As for France itself, it was the premier martial nation of Europe for centuries. Napoleon's armies were without peer, and account for many of our military terms, organization and titles to this day.
France fought ferociously in WWI; if they had a Viet Nam Memorial Wall for their WWI casualties, it would be 16 miles long. They were bled white. In WWII, they were strategically outflanked by a modern, skilled and mechanized German army in their effort to refight WWI.
The French may be obnoxious and unreliable as allies in the post WWII era, but to term the French "cowardly," I believe, is a gross misapplication.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Greatly in excess of his official salary.
These gonifs must think that they are in DC.
<< <i>42 Kilogrammes of Gold Found in Yanukovych Aides Home
Greatly in excess of his official salary. >>
Drop in the bucket - 33 tons went to the US
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>
<< <i>Agreed that France is a cowardly nation historically speaking. >>
France may not account for much now in terms of stomach for war, but that applies to all of Europe, a place afflicted by armed conflict as a matter of cultural inclination until the process thoroughly traumatized the continent in the two World Wars.
As for France itself, it was the premier martial nation of Europe for centuries. Napoleon's armies were without peer, and account for many of our military terms, organization and titles to this day.
France fought ferociously in WWI; if they had a Viet Nam Memorial Wall for their WWI casualties, it would be 16 miles long. They were bled white. In WWII, they were strategically outflanked by a modern, skilled and mechanized German army in their effort to refight WWI.
The French may be obnoxious and unreliable as allies in the post WWII era, but to term the French "cowardly," I believe, is a gross misapplication. >>
You are correct I shouldnt have said "Historically speaking" I should have been more specific and said "France has been a cowardly nation for about 100 years"
<< <i>
<< <i>42 Kilogrammes of Gold Found in Yanukovych Aides Home
Greatly in excess of his official salary. >>
Drop in the bucket - 33 tons went to the US >>
<< <i>I am no peacenik, but we have no business sending troops into Ukraine. We have enough problems and now they are downsizing the military to pre-WWII levels.... Cheers, RickO >>
Agreed!
Let me state something about banking in Ukraine. Security in banks is not discreet with nothing more than seemingly unarmed security peeking at you from some remote windowless office - rather they are right in the lobby when cash comes and goes - and well armed with AK-47s with respectably large ammo clips.
Box of 20
<< <i>All trade between the EU and Russia may cease eventually. U.S. companies and foreign investment pulling out of Russia? Since this happened in the spring, gas supplies may be not as crucial from Russia, thus giving the EU more time to get gas supplies from other sources. Russia is already kicked out of the G8. Could they be kicked out of the G20 or the UN? >>
I follow some Russian social networks and news sites. The commentary is fascinating, it very much reverberates what was going on in late 2002 and early 2003 when a particular nation was pretty much going it alone vs. the rest of the world in pursuit of alleged munitions that turned out to not exist. Lots of chest beating is going on, howls for finishing off the job - other dumb comments like Europe is going to get it this time. In other words nothing changes, just the place and the time. Right now Russia is massing 60K soldiers on the border with Ukraine and there are lots of anti-Ukrainian postings showing up.
The Russians know that Europe is prostrate without their gas. Germany is demonstrating more by doing nothing at all. Poland is repeating previous calls for more US military bases in Poland. I saw somewhere that someone commented maybe they could rely on Germany for military support - yeah right. There are still Poles alive that remember Germany's last foray into Polish territory.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
It looks more like us vs. them every day.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am no peacenik, but we have no business sending troops into Ukraine. We have enough problems and now they are downsizing the military to pre-WWII levels.... Cheers, RickO >>
Agreed! >>
Yeah, we have our boys spread pretty thin policing nations who hate us, already. And we don't do ourselves any favors , as neighbors, when we try to dictate "democracy" without establishing it and proving HOW capitalism really works. Trickle down so everyone can be a HAVE and not a HAVE NOT for some DICTATING REGIME. I don't care what name we put on it. As long as we keep THE PEOPLE dumbed down, the rulers and leaders (governments of, by and for the people) are at peace. It's when the people are given knowledge and freedom, that it is quickly taken away.
We are armed in the U.S. Imagine if THE PEOPLE were armed in Europe. Would there be more crime or more peace ? Arms … we raise them, we sell them, we load them, we break them.
This thread takes me off of the whole idea of gold and more about "governance". That's a difficult ball to roll around here.
<< <i>This is one of the most interesting threads. As it concerns gold, it seems that when push comes to shove, nobody's going to let you use your gold as a safety valve for your family unless you already have numerous connections with the government(s).
It looks more like us vs. them every day. >>
Some fools are clueless that is for sure. Several of my friends in the old country have lost everything a time or two when governments and their monetary systems collapsed ie, the fall of the USSR, then the gradual erosion of the Ukrainian karbovnets currency that existed from 1992-1996. Believe me, they don't put their money in the local bank or under their mattress. Shopping trips to Geneva and Zurich have double meanings. One of my relatives is still drawing annuity payments for back salary from the early 1990s. Most everybody including some of my family, had privatisation cheques that subsequently became worthless - and some almost worthless, ie like now 3 hryven in a state run bank account.
He is salivating until he can pounce on the remainder of the region.
Meanwhile our Commander is busy pushing the ACA on Ellen.
<< <i> and more concerned with what Angela Merkel thinks and acts on. The economic ball is in her court. This is a European problem, a European security issue. >>
Rather than the cold War, this will be the digital economic war. Germany and the UK could survive economic hardship, the rest or Europe would continue on its 5 year path of deep dive.
Globalization is tyrant, folks.
One thing I am noticing is that in the east things are starting to calm down with the pro-Russia protests there, where before they were having 20-30k people show up, now they are lucky if they can get 1000-2000 to show up. Some of it is no doubt apathy, but then Russia actually massing troops on the border and the threat of a shooting war has a way of subduing people's passions for Russian rule. Maybe if the coup government in Kyiv can make some concessions and recognise Russian as a language on par with Ukrainian, which it in reality is demographically - and guarantee the right to use Russian then protest will completely fizzle out.
<< <i>This morning I went to the PO to mail a card over to a relative in Ukraine. The postal clerk had the nerve to ask me if the place still existed. >>
Surprised that you found a postal clerk that even heard of The Ukraine.
Just saying.
Not just a TAKEOVER in Crimea, for "security" purposes, but a lesson on how to "DICTATE" the metals market for a few weeks. (confiscation)
THE NEWS
Keep in mind, this is just "the news". Without substantiating all the facts, I must offer a disclaimer in noting that I'm just reporting in my pajamas from abroad.
Box of 20
<< <i>Read the other day that Putin has increased the price of natural gas by 35% to the Ukrainians.
He is salivating until he can pounce on the remainder of the region.
Meanwhile our Commander is busy pushing the ACA on Ellen. >>
erm, he's been in Europe all week discussing the issue and nuke security with European leaders, and as noted above kicked Russia out of the G8. That's what you wanted him to be doing, yes?
<< <i>"This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility," Obama told Medvedev." 03.26.12 >>
Puppet to puppet. A crazy thought comes to mind, replace the "l" in the subject of the sentence, and oh, you get the picture.
<< <i>
<< <i>"This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility," Obama told Medvedev." 03.26.12 >>
Puppet to puppet. A crazy thought comes to mind, replace the "l" in the subject of the sentence, and oh, you get the picture. >>
pray tell, who is the Putin of the USA, then?
<< <i>
<< <i>"This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility," Obama told Medvedev." 03.26.12 >>
Puppet to puppet. A crazy thought comes to mind, replace the "l" in the subject of the sentence, and oh, you get the picture. >>
SA-Thank you for your insight and updates.