<< <i>Or they should have a good data backup plan. We backup all of our data daily in addition to running a RAID system for critical daily operations. Still, it would only require a few keystrokes (or set it to automatically update) to update the internet "report" (I am sure it is not a database) nightly. It seems to me what they were telling me is someone manually does in and changes each number on the website report.
It sounded really goofy to me and wasn't worth pursuing with the frontline person who answered the phone. >>
even if the web pages are based off a database report, they may be doing it on a periodic basis. Thus, it's not live.
But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights.
<< <i>Or they should have a good data backup plan. We backup all of our data daily in addition to running a RAID system for critical daily operations. Still, it would only require a few keystrokes (or set it to automatically update) to update the internet "report" (I am sure it is not a database) nightly. It seems to me what they were telling me is someone manually does in and changes each number on the website report.
It sounded really goofy to me and wasn't worth pursuing with the frontline person who answered the phone. >>
Yes, I would think that someone at PCGS knows how to create a report and publishes it to the web periodically. Doing it by hand would be an absolute nightmare.
They might not do it daily because they want to leave some mystery as to there thruput and what they're grading each day. More likely they don't do it daily because the report is resource intensive.
What I don't like is the different pop's you get between coinfacts and cert verification. Very annoying!
Wow nice find Paladin, if watched closely the Bay still holds some great values out there.
I am just not so sure anymore about the long term value of the 2011's outside of bullion. I mean the prices drop with every new price adjustment on the PCGS price guide and the 2010's are following closely behind. I bought 5 of the 2010 sets. I sent three of the sets to PCGS for grading and luckily hit on a Yellowstone MS69DM, which I sold on the Bay for 2 grand. So with grading fees, ebay and paypal fees I paid about $3,700 for 24 coins so I am still very happy with the outcome but it was a lot of work.
Now that I have all 5 of the 2010 P versions I am done with the ATB's and will start to focus my money on the upcoming 25th Anniversary ASE set release.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I've been away from these for awhile. I hadn't realized that they had fallen so far. On this particular sale, the seller lost money even before eBay and PayPal fees due to acquisition costs, grading fees & postage costs. Certainly doesn't bode well for the future of this series.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Now that I have all 5 of the 2010 P versions I am done with the ATB's and will start to focus my money on the upcoming 25th Anniversary ASE set release. >>
That's the Ticket!
This will be the 2011 Flip Fun we all will be having soon ;> !
The 25th anniversary set is coming out as a set, and in the year of the anniversary. Hmm. If the Mint would do this with the ATB's, maybe there would be some excitement, at least more than this trickling out. My 2010 Mt Hood P coin has finally shipped, will get it tomorrow - it's August 2011 - yawn.
These APs are pushing through large batches of coins for grading which I think is going to keep premiums down on even higher graded ones. I paid a premium for a couple of Olys right before PCGS reported a slug of them after weeks of little change. (thanks PCGS). I will not do that again.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
My daughter also quit collecting the ATB series after her 2010 dated coins crashed in value due (in part) to the "big boys" submitting their massive loads for grading and pops jumping HUNDREDS in a day in the finest known grades. And, that was just the "tip of the iceberg". It is a real shame for her ... she really loved the coins. But, the "thrill is gone" (as is a lot of her money). She is completely turned off to the coins due to the "politics" of the coins. I assume many collectors just like her are as well. I know she will not be coming back to the coins anytime soon. But, she has a great lessoned learned on what can happen if you are a collector ... be it a classic coin collector or a modern coin collector. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>My daughter also quit collecting the ATB series after her 2010 dated coins crashed in value due (in part) to the "big boys" submitting their massive loads for grading and pops jumping HUNDREDS in a day in the finest known grades. And, that was just the "tip of the iceberg". It is a real shame for her ... she really loved the coins. But, the "thrill is gone" (as is a lot of her money). She is completely turned off to the coins due to the "politics" of the coins. I assume many collectors just like her are as well. I know she will not be coming back to the coins anytime soon. But, she has a great lessoned learned on what can happen if you are a collector ... be it a classic coin collector or a modern coin collector. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
I too learned a valuable lesson. It is a shame and I just hope over time the interest picks up a little.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights. >>
What gets me is you can go to the Pop Report and look up the 2011W AGE. It is not even listed. Yet, if you go to the price guide where it is listed and click on the link that takes you to "Coin Fact" the population is listed. So, they are keeping their Pay EXTRA service up-dated but won't keep their paid service up-dated. Hum, you buy a membership to have access to the Pop. Reports but you need to pay extra to actually get the real Pop Reports. Come on PCGS, get your act together!
<< <i>But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights. >>
What gets me is you can go to the Pop Report and look up the 2011W AGE. It is not even listed. Yet, if you go to the price guide where it is listed and click on the link that takes you to "Coin Fact" the population is listed. So, they are keeping their Pay EXTRA service up-dated but won't keep their paid service up-dated. Hum, you buy a membership to have access to the Pop. Reports but you need to pay extra to actually get the real Pop Reports. Come on PCGS, get your act together! >>
You can get the numbers by putting the coin number in the box and looking it up individually. I don't know why it should be that way though.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I bought the PCGS MS 69 DMPLs Gettysburg, Glacier and Vicksburg all at around $440. Way too much. I will come back later to get the Olympic and Chickasaw but not at those prices anymore. I will try to collect the entire series in 69 DMPL, but no more P Pucks for me. I still like the series.
Well I was just on the PCGS priceguide and it looks like the prices have fallen again. What was the crown jewel, the Yellowstone DMPL 69 is down to $1,300.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>My daughter also quit collecting the ATB series after her 2010 dated coins crashed in value due (in part) to the "big boys" submitting their massive loads for grading and pops jumping HUNDREDS in a day in the finest known grades. And, that was just the "tip of the iceberg". It is a real shame for her ... she really loved the coins. But, the "thrill is gone" (as is a lot of her money). She is completely turned off to the coins due to the "politics" of the coins. I assume many collectors just like her are as well. I know she will not be coming back to the coins anytime soon. But, she has a great lessoned learned on what can happen if you are a collector ... be it a classic coin collector or a modern coin collector. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
I too learned a valuable lesson. It is a shame and I just hope over time the interest picks up a little. >>
Lesson learned here too.... I sold as quickly as I got em. Only have a small handful of coins left and a pocketful of $
Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
Buy the bullion version at the lowest margins above melt possible (some are selling at APMEX for under $2 above spot per oz) and you won't go wrong. I like the bullion version and will continue to buy them.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>These APs are pushing through large batches of coins for grading which I think is going to keep premiums down on even higher graded ones. I paid a premium for a couple of Olys right before PCGS reported a slug of them after weeks of little change. (thanks PCGS). I will not do that again. >>
Coinsponge, I feel your pain...I did the same. Oh well, I can sit on them for awhile. I'd say that was my first real "mistake" with these ATBs. Lesson learned.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
I'm cold on these for now. I did leave some money on the table as I held on to them after getting them on the cheap from AMARK instead of going for the quick flip. Lesson learned but I like the coins. These probably will grade high if I was so inclined. Unfortunately I also got an "A-bomb" from APMEX. The silver increase has caught up with them so nothing lost there except my interest in doing any business with APMEX again. Lesson learned there also .
For what it's worth, I have a Chickasaw PL I purchased and I swear it is a DMPL, not sure what is going on there. MCM lowered prices on Olympic and Chickasaw DMPL 69s to 399 each or both for 777. Apmex still well over 500+ for these.
Well, if it is true the AP's had to buy all the mint offered (100,000+). I am sure you will see these for a long time. It looks like the 2010 were the only one to grab with their 33,000 mintage. The only issue I can see is the flood may kill the series unless they drop the price down to where it stirs interest in them. Then, the 2010 may be really winners!
Drop the price? I think you are confusing the mint P version with the bullion version. I have seen the bullion version selling for a couple bucks per ounce over spot. When I buy silver to stack I buy ATB bullion. Love em.
<< <i>Drop the price? I think you are confusing the mint P version with the bullion version. I have seen the bullion version selling for a couple bucks per ounce over spot. When I buy silver to stack I buy ATB bullion. Love em. >>
The graded versions (DMPL 69s) Grasshopper. Not the junk.
I have bought a bunch of the "junk" B-pucks a couple bucks over spot to stack and I see why they were never graded.
At 17,500 sold these are the true low mintage ...so far.
Remember, they must sell 2011s ..in 2011 or they melt them down.
If sales remain weak on this issue into December, it would not hurt to stack a few extra. >>
Who is "they"?
I believe someone earlier in this thread indicated the AP's are obligated to buy all the ATB coins from the Mint. It is part of their contract being an AP. So, I would safely assume the AP's will not melt them down.
Anyone know what the premium over spot the AP's have to pay the Mint for the B-Pucks? I believe for the ASE, they pay $2.50 over spot for each coin. If it is the same, that means they pay $12.50 over spot for each ATB coin.
At 17,500 sold these are the true low mintage ...so far.
Remember, they must sell 2011s ..in 2011 or they melt them down.
If sales remain weak on this issue into December, it would not hurt to stack a few extra. >>
Who is "they"?
I believe someone earlier in this thread indicated the AP's are obligated to buy all the ATB coins from the Mint. It is part of their contract being an AP. So, I would safely assume the AP's will not melt them down.
Anyone know what the premium over spot the AP's have to pay the Mint for the B-Pucks? I believe for the ASE, they pay $2.50 over spot for each coin. If it is the same, that means they pay $12.50 over spot for each ATB coin. >>
I certainly do not know what the AP are required to do but it does not make sense intuitively that they should be required to buy all of them. I wouldn't do business that way.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
"Cumulative sales totals for each of the 2011 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins appears below. Release Date Coins Gettysburg April 25, 2011 126,700 Glacier April 25, 2011 126,700 Olympic May 23, 2011 81,200 Vicksburg June 20, 2011 28,800 Chickasaw July 18, 2011 17,500 Total 380,900
For each of the three designs that still remain available for sale, the US Mint has indicated an initial mintage quantity of 126,700 coins. If any unsold quantities remain at the end of the year, it seems likely that these would be melted. The authorizing legislation for the program only allows the five ounce silver bullion coins to be sold during the year that the corresponding circulating quarter dollar is released.
By contrast, the one ounce American Silver Eagle bullion coins continue to sell at a record breaking pace. During the month of August, total sales were 3,679,500."
Obviously, the AP's are under no obligation to buy even a minimum number of these. I'd say that this series is heading in the direction of the FSes. Look for lots of future issues with mintages considerably lower than the 2010's.
Sorry - the link's good now.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Drop the price? I think you are confusing the mint P version with the bullion version. I have seen the bullion version selling for a couple bucks per ounce over spot. When I buy silver to stack I buy ATB bullion. Love em. >>
Bullion is right, on the PCGS priceguide and it looks like the prices have fallen again.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
"The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are sold in bulk quantities to business firms approved by the United States Mint which have met the qualifying criteria discussed in Section V below. Approved firms can purchase these coins in the following quantities:
- A minimum of 10,000 ounces (2,000 coins) of silver. Purchases above the minimum must be in 500-ounce (100-coin) increments, the standard packaged quantity."
"The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are sold in bulk quantities to business firms approved by the United States Mint which have met the qualifying criteria discussed in Section V below. Approved firms can purchase these coins in the following quantities:
- A minimum of 10,000 ounces (2,000 coins) of silver. Purchases above the minimum must be in 500-ounce (100-coin) increments, the standard packaged quantity." ......................... . >>
In the above, the operative word is can. If an AP chooses not to purchase, they don't have to. So if only 2 or 3 AP's are buying, these mintages can be downright miniscule.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>MCM has a 20 count lot of PCGS DMPL MS69s if you are interested. Make me a bit nervous if they are blowing out huge lots of these guys. >>
Don't be nervous. Prices are always based on two things demand, and supply, in that order. The demand for the Olympic and Chickasaw ATB's in 69DMPL had been steady but not fantastic and our supply is ample, therefore our prices are the lowest (that I am aware of) out there. That's the way we do things. As our supply dwindles or if demand increases we will raise the price, on the other hand if someone else decides to grade a boatload and there is a new supply our prices could go lower. No rocket science here, just basic laws of supply and demand.
Thanks for the economics lesson, John. Too bad the Mint can't run its operation the same way - like a business. Would it really be so terrible if the Mint sold some of these when sales are slow to the AP's? How about the last week in December, just before they go off sale. The Mint could have its own garage sale. Certainly would be better than melting. I'm not saying reduce the price. Just put in the contract language that would enable them to sell direct to the public during the last week of the year if the AP's haven't purchased a cumulative "X" number of units. Seems simple enough.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>MCM has a 20 count lot of PCGS DMPL MS69s if you are interested. Make me a bit nervous if they are blowing out huge lots of these guys. >>
Don't be nervous. Prices are always based on two things demand, and supply, in that order. The demand for the Olympic and Chickasaw ATB's in 69DMPL had been steady but not fantastic and our supply is ample, therefore our prices are the lowest (that I am aware of) out there. That's the way we do things. As our supply dwindles or if demand increases we will raise the price, on the other hand if someone else decides to grade a boatload and there is a new supply our prices could go lower. No rocket science here, just basic laws of supply and demand.
John >>
With the demand so low when will these bottom out?
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>Thanks for the economics lesson, John. Too bad the Mint can't run its operation the same way - like a business. Would it really be so terrible if the Mint sold some of these when sales are slow to the AP's? How about the last week in December, just before they go off sale. The Mint could have its own garage sale. Certainly would be better than melting. I'm not saying reduce the price. Just put in the contract language that would enable them to sell direct to the public during the last week of the year if the AP's haven't purchased a cumulative "X" number of units. Seems simple enough. >>
If the APs aren't purchasing then it would indicate that demand isn't there. Frankly it is poor business [whether you are the U.S. Mint or someone else] to compete with or undercut your distributors/dealers.
If they APs aren't purchasing then it would indicate that demand isn't there. Frankly it is poor business [whether you are the U.S. Mint or someone else] to compete with or undercut your distributors/dealers.
The Mint should have figured out that if they "looked the other way" while their APs started charging 80% premiums for bullion coins at the very beginning of the program, instead of the normal bullion markups that they were obligated by contract to comply with - that demand would evaporate.
And it did.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
<< <i>Or they should have a good data backup plan. We backup all of our data daily in addition to running a RAID system for critical daily operations. Still, it would only require a few keystrokes (or set it to automatically update) to update the internet "report" (I am sure it is not a database) nightly. It seems to me what they were telling me is someone manually does in and changes each number on the website report.
It sounded really goofy to me and wasn't worth pursuing with the frontline person who answered the phone. >>
even if the web pages are based off a database report, they may be doing it on a periodic basis. Thus, it's not live.
But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights.
<< <i>But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights. >>
I with you 100% there. I can se it now. A little sign by the door that reads, "Before turning off lights, push button to update Pop. Report."
With silver trying to make a run, this is shocking:
Getty 69DMPL
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>With silver trying to make a run, this is shocking:
Getty 69DMPL >>
MCM is selling them for only about $15 more...
<< <i>
<< <i>With silver trying to make a run, this is shocking:
Getty 69DMPL >>
MCM is selling them for only about $15 more... >>
Yup, but you have to consider that the ebay seller is gonna take a hit for approx $40, fees and free insured shipping.
<< <i>Or they should have a good data backup plan. We backup all of our data daily in addition to running a RAID system for critical daily operations. Still, it would only require a few keystrokes (or set it to automatically update) to update the internet "report" (I am sure it is not a database) nightly. It seems to me what they were telling me is someone manually does in and changes each number on the website report.
It sounded really goofy to me and wasn't worth pursuing with the frontline person who answered the phone. >>
Yes, I would think that someone at PCGS knows how to create a report and publishes it to the web periodically. Doing it by hand would be an absolute nightmare.
They might not do it daily because they want to leave some mystery as to there thruput and what they're grading each day. More likely they don't do it daily because the report is resource intensive.
What I don't like is the different pop's you get between coinfacts and cert verification. Very annoying!
<< <i>With silver trying to make a run, this is shocking:
Getty 69DMPL >>
Wow nice find Paladin, if watched closely the Bay still holds some great values out there.
I am just not so sure anymore about the long term value of the 2011's outside of bullion. I mean the prices drop with every new price adjustment on the PCGS price guide and the 2010's are following closely behind. I bought 5 of the 2010 sets. I sent three of the sets to PCGS for grading and luckily hit on a Yellowstone MS69DM, which I sold on the Bay for 2 grand. So with grading fees, ebay and paypal fees I paid about $3,700 for 24 coins so I am still very happy with the outcome but it was a lot of work.
Now that I have all 5 of the 2010 P versions I am done with the ATB's and will start to focus my money on the upcoming 25th Anniversary ASE set release.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I've been away from these for awhile. I hadn't realized that they had fallen so far. On this particular sale, the seller lost money even before eBay and PayPal fees due to acquisition costs, grading fees & postage costs. Certainly doesn't bode well for the future of this series.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>Now that I have all 5 of the 2010 P versions I am done with the ATB's and will start to focus my money on the upcoming 25th Anniversary ASE set release. >>
That's the Ticket!
This will be the 2011 Flip Fun we all will be having soon ;> !
Wondercoin
<< <i>My daughter also quit collecting the ATB series after her 2010 dated coins crashed in value due (in part) to the "big boys" submitting their massive loads for grading and pops jumping HUNDREDS in a day in the finest known grades. And, that was just the "tip of the iceberg". It is a real shame for her ... she really loved the coins. But, the "thrill is gone" (as is a lot of her money). She is completely turned off to the coins due to the "politics" of the coins. I assume many collectors just like her are as well. I know she will not be coming back to the coins anytime soon. But, she has a great lessoned learned on what can happen if you are a collector ... be it a classic coin collector or a modern coin collector. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
I too learned a valuable lesson. It is a shame and I just hope over time the interest picks up a little.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights. >>
What gets me is you can go to the Pop Report and look up the 2011W AGE. It is not even listed. Yet, if you go to the price guide where it is listed and click on the link that takes you to "Coin Fact" the population is listed. So, they are keeping their Pay EXTRA service up-dated but won't keep their paid service up-dated. Hum, you buy a membership to have access to the Pop. Reports but you need to pay extra to actually get the real Pop Reports. Come on PCGS, get your act together!
<< <i>
<< <i>But, yes, I wish they'd at least update it every night before they turn out the lights. >>
What gets me is you can go to the Pop Report and look up the 2011W AGE. It is not even listed. Yet, if you go to the price guide where it is listed and click on the link that takes you to "Coin Fact" the population is listed. So, they are keeping their Pay EXTRA service up-dated but won't keep their paid service up-dated. Hum, you buy a membership to have access to the Pop. Reports but you need to pay extra to actually get the real Pop Reports. Come on PCGS, get your act together! >>
You can get the numbers by putting the coin number in the box and looking it up individually. I don't know why it should be that way though.
Box of 20
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>
<< <i>My daughter also quit collecting the ATB series after her 2010 dated coins crashed in value due (in part) to the "big boys" submitting their massive loads for grading and pops jumping HUNDREDS in a day in the finest known grades. And, that was just the "tip of the iceberg". It is a real shame for her ... she really loved the coins. But, the "thrill is gone" (as is a lot of her money). She is completely turned off to the coins due to the "politics" of the coins. I assume many collectors just like her are as well. I know she will not be coming back to the coins anytime soon. But, she has a great lessoned learned on what can happen if you are a collector ... be it a classic coin collector or a modern coin collector. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
I too learned a valuable lesson. It is a shame and I just hope over time the interest picks up a little. >>
Lesson learned here too.... I sold as quickly as I got em. Only have a small handful of coins left and a pocketful of $
<< <i>These APs are pushing through large batches of coins for grading which I think is going to keep premiums down on even higher graded ones. I paid a premium for a couple of Olys right before PCGS reported a slug of them after weeks of little change. (thanks PCGS). I will not do that again. >>
Coinsponge, I feel your pain...I did the same. Oh well, I can sit on them for awhile. I'd say that was my first real "mistake" with these ATBs. Lesson learned.
Jim
they came back PL.
I had 2 mechanical errors in the past 2 months.
I'm thinking "Mechanical Error -- wrong coin number. they didn't use the DMPL coin number."
I begged.
I pleaded.
I asked them to remeasure one.
The manager said ok.
It's slated to be shipped today.
Grades unchanged.
As I posted in another thread, how can PCGS get tight on PL/DMPL designations when it is a measurable quality?
If it measures out correctly, it is.
if it doesn't, it isn't.
The only way they can get tighter is to change the measurement.
It's 8" for DMPL, right?
Or has it increased to 10"?????
<< <i>Drop the price? I think you are confusing the mint P version with the bullion version. I have seen the bullion version selling for a couple bucks per ounce over spot. When I buy silver to stack I buy ATB bullion. Love em. >>
The graded versions (DMPL 69s) Grasshopper. Not the junk.
I have bought a bunch of the "junk" B-pucks a couple bucks over spot to stack and I see why they were never graded.
Don't forget with silver at $43 now we own these for less than that so how do we lose unless we buy some of these P mint at their stupid prices.
At 17,500 sold these are the true low mintage ...so far.
Remember, they must sell 2011s ..in 2011 or they melt them down.
If sales remain weak on this issue into December, it would not hurt to stack a few extra.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>I am watching Chickasaw.
At 17,500 sold these are the true low mintage ...so far.
Remember, they must sell 2011s ..in 2011 or they melt them down.
If sales remain weak on this issue into December, it would not hurt to stack a few extra. >>
Who is "they"?
I believe someone earlier in this thread indicated the AP's are obligated to buy all the ATB coins from the Mint. It is part of their contract being an AP. So, I would safely assume the AP's will not melt them down.
Anyone know what the premium over spot the AP's have to pay the Mint for the B-Pucks? I believe for the ASE, they pay $2.50 over spot for each coin. If it is the same, that means they pay $12.50 over spot for each ATB coin.
APs pay $9.75 per puck over spot.
17500 is the amount the MINT has sold to APs.
Of course the APs wont melt what they have bought.
But 17500 is the float. I thik that some AP will make a large buy near the end of the year if the Chick stays low.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>
<< <i>I am watching Chickasaw.
At 17,500 sold these are the true low mintage ...so far.
Remember, they must sell 2011s ..in 2011 or they melt them down.
If sales remain weak on this issue into December, it would not hurt to stack a few extra. >>
Who is "they"?
I believe someone earlier in this thread indicated the AP's are obligated to buy all the ATB coins from the Mint. It is part of their contract being an AP. So, I would safely assume the AP's will not melt them down.
Anyone know what the premium over spot the AP's have to pay the Mint for the B-Pucks? I believe for the ASE, they pay $2.50 over spot for each coin. If it is the same, that means they pay $12.50 over spot for each ATB coin. >>
I certainly do not know what the AP are required to do but it does not make sense intuitively that they should be required to buy all of them. I wouldn't do business that way.
"Cumulative sales totals for each of the 2011 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins appears below.
Release Date Coins
Gettysburg April 25, 2011 126,700
Glacier April 25, 2011 126,700
Olympic May 23, 2011 81,200
Vicksburg June 20, 2011 28,800
Chickasaw July 18, 2011 17,500
Total 380,900
For each of the three designs that still remain available for sale, the US Mint has indicated an initial mintage quantity of 126,700 coins. If any unsold quantities remain at the end of the year, it seems likely that these would be melted. The authorizing legislation for the program only allows the five ounce silver bullion coins to be sold during the year that the corresponding circulating quarter dollar is released.
By contrast, the one ounce American Silver Eagle bullion coins continue to sell at a record breaking pace. During the month of August, total sales were 3,679,500."
Read the whole thing HERE.
Obviously, the AP's are under no obligation to buy even a minimum number of these. I'd say that this series is heading in the direction of the FSes. Look for lots of future issues with mintages considerably lower than the 2010's.
Sorry - the link's good now.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Does anyone really know if the AP's have to take delivery of all 126,700 coins, per their contract?
<< <i>You link goes no where.
Does anyone really know if the AP's have to take delivery of all 126,700 coins, per their contract? >>
I don't know what you mean. The APs buy in minimum lots of 2000 coins. They are under no obligation to buy any.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>Drop the price? I think you are confusing the mint P version with the bullion version. I have seen the bullion version selling for a couple bucks per ounce over spot. When I buy silver to stack I buy ATB bullion. Love em. >>
Bullion is right, on the PCGS priceguide and it looks like the prices have fallen again.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>You link goes no where...........
Sorry. Here's the ATB Sales Link
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>They are under no obligation to buy any. >>
And you know this how? Put a link where your keystroke is!
"The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are sold in bulk quantities to business firms approved by the United States Mint which have met the qualifying criteria discussed in Section V below. Approved firms can purchase these coins in the following quantities:
- A minimum of 10,000 ounces (2,000 coins) of silver. Purchases above the minimum must be in 500-ounce (100-coin) increments, the standard packaged quantity."
Purchase Requirements for AP's
So, it could be a limited mintage is they truly do melt them.
<< <i>Found it:
"The America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins are sold in bulk quantities to business firms approved by the United States Mint which have met the qualifying criteria discussed in Section V below. Approved firms can purchase these coins in the following quantities:
- A minimum of 10,000 ounces (2,000 coins) of silver. Purchases above the minimum must be in 500-ounce (100-coin) increments, the standard packaged quantity."
......................... . >>
In the above, the operative word is can. If an AP chooses not to purchase, they don't have to. So if only 2 or 3 AP's are buying, these mintages can be downright miniscule.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>I am watching Chickasaw.
At 17,500 sold these are the true low mintage ...so far.
Remember, they must sell 2011s ..in 2011 or they melt them down.
If sales remain weak on this issue into December, it would not hurt to stack a few extra. >>
Even with only 17,500 sold. If the series is dead as seems to be, it really won't matter.
MCM has a 20 count lot of PCGS DMPL MS69s if you are interested. Make me a bit nervous if they are blowing out huge lots of these guys.
<< <i>MCM has a 20 count lot of PCGS DMPL MS69s if you are interested. Make me a bit nervous if they are blowing out huge lots of these guys. >>
Don't be nervous. Prices are always based on two things demand, and supply, in that order. The demand for the Olympic and Chickasaw ATB's in 69DMPL had been steady but not fantastic and our supply is ample, therefore our prices are the lowest (that I am aware of) out there. That's the way we do things. As our supply dwindles or if demand increases we will raise the price, on the other hand if someone else decides to grade a boatload and there is a new supply our prices could go lower. No rocket science here, just basic laws of supply and demand.
John
Thanks for the economics lesson, John. Too bad the Mint can't run its operation the same way - like a business. Would it really be so terrible if the Mint sold some of these when sales are slow to the AP's? How about the last week in December, just before they go off sale. The Mint could have its own garage sale. Certainly would be better than melting. I'm not saying reduce the price. Just put in the contract language that would enable them to sell direct to the public during the last week of the year if the AP's haven't purchased a cumulative "X" number of units. Seems simple enough.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>
<< <i>MCM has a 20 count lot of PCGS DMPL MS69s if you are interested. Make me a bit nervous if they are blowing out huge lots of these guys. >>
Don't be nervous. Prices are always based on two things demand, and supply, in that order. The demand for the Olympic and Chickasaw ATB's in 69DMPL had been steady but not fantastic and our supply is ample, therefore our prices are the lowest (that I am aware of) out there. That's the way we do things. As our supply dwindles or if demand increases we will raise the price, on the other hand if someone else decides to grade a boatload and there is a new supply our prices could go lower. No rocket science here, just basic laws of supply and demand.
John >>
With the demand so low when will these bottom out?
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>Thanks for the economics lesson, John. Too bad the Mint can't run its operation the same way - like a business. Would it really be so terrible if the Mint sold some of these when sales are slow to the AP's? How about the last week in December, just before they go off sale. The Mint could have its own garage sale. Certainly would be better than melting. I'm not saying reduce the price. Just put in the contract language that would enable them to sell direct to the public during the last week of the year if the AP's haven't purchased a cumulative "X" number of units. Seems simple enough. >>
If the APs aren't purchasing then it would indicate that demand isn't there. Frankly it is poor business [whether you are the U.S. Mint or someone else] to compete with or undercut your distributors/dealers.
The Mint should have figured out that if they "looked the other way" while their APs started charging 80% premiums for bullion coins at the very beginning of the program, instead of the normal bullion markups that they were obligated by contract to comply with - that demand would evaporate.
And it did.
I knew it would happen.
MCM 2011 set for cheap