The shot of Belechick after the loss was priceless. He’s like damn why didn’t I retire when Brady left?
Cool what it’s doing to his winning percentage.
@Darin said:
The shot of Belechick after the loss was priceless. He’s like damn why didn’t I retire when Brady left?
Cool what it’s doing to his winning percentage.
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
@Darin said:
Congratulations to Craig on the loss🥳
Thank you very much Darin. I was late getting to the game today. watched it recorded. It was a little tight at the end, but Mac came through for us!!!! I am looking forward to April!
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
Alright Patriots faithful (and Darin), do we officially have a QB controversy?
BB has officially shown his cards. He cant stand Mac. why else would he pull him when down one score in a 2-minute drill situation? A healthy pull no less.
BB clearly has no confidence in Mac.
The only confidence I have in him is that he will continue to lose us games on our drive to lose out the rest of the season.
Craig at least the running game was very good. After watching Mac today maybe tanking is the best way to go.😱
And today made me wonder if Brady was still their QB what would the record be. Because it would be a lot better than 2-8.
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
Belicheck ruined him last year
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@Darin said:
Craig at least the running game was very good. After watching Mac today maybe tanking is the best way to go.😱
And today made me wonder if Brady was still their QB what would the record be. Because it would be a lot better than 2-8.
yup, tank away. I have been saying it since they lost judon.
and yes, they would be a better team with 46 year old Brady.
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
I think the travel is way overrated for these european games. these guys are flying in luxury private jets. its only about a 7 hour flight from logan to munich. once your there, its just like any other away game. stay in a hotel room for a few days and play the game. its not like they are flying to east asia economy.
tommy played many years without great WR's. You can bet he would be tearing teams apart with the TE's NE has right now. Mac just doesnt have it.
I am beginning to think you may have a large mac collection... you seem to be making lots of excuses for him.
I’m wondering if basebal actually saw that interception Mac threw and how bad it was. A receiver broke wide open in the end zone and Mac under threw it 10 yards.
And basebal just asked Craig what Mac is supposed to do.
Well for one thing complete an easy TD pass so you don’t get benched for the last drive of the game.
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
I think the travel is way overrated for these european games. these guys are flying in luxury private jets. its only about a 7 hour flight from logan to munich. once your there, its just like any other away game. stay in a hotel room for a few days and play the game. its not like they are flying to east asia economy.
tommy played many years without great WR's. You can bet he would be tearing teams apart with the TE's NE has right now. Mac just doesnt have it.
I am beginning to think you may have a large mac collection... you seem to be making lots of excuses for him.
Its not necessarily luxury but even just the flight impacts the recovery period and sleep period for the body. The games are started at 9/9:30 am eastern time which means theyre waking up at like 5am at the lastest if they even slept. Players dont like these games.
Brady had weapons. Moss, Gronk, Welker, etc. He had a line, he had TEs, he had RBs.
He was without question better than Mac is, but to try and compare the weapons and Oline it just not even close.
Go look back when people were on me for saying Mac wont work there months ago. He wont work, but its not his fault and yes I do try and be fair to players
Mac Jones is a terrible NFL quarterback and his days as a starter are numbered
every time I watch him in action I vow never to do it again, but it's like a train wreck and I just have to see it again. dude doesn't just miss easy throws, he misses them by a good 5-10 yards with regularity
his qbr was 25 today and he's ranked near the bottom for the season. he has no business doing anything other than holding a clipboard, and I'm not even sure he's qualified to do that
@galaxy27 said:
Mac Jones is a terrible NFL quarterback and his days as a starter are numbered
every time I watch him in action I vow never to do it again, but it's like a train wreck and I just have to see it again. dude doesn't just miss easy throws, he misses them by a good 5-10 yards with regularity
his qbr was 25 today and he's ranked near the bottom for the season. he has no business doing anything other than holding a clipboard, and I'm not even sure he's qualified to do that
but wait, Basebal21 keeps telling me that Mac is a quality NFL quarterback...
who do I believe? My own eyes or Basebal21. I am so confused...
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
I think the travel is way overrated for these european games. these guys are flying in luxury private jets. its only about a 7 hour flight from logan to munich. once your there, its just like any other away game. stay in a hotel room for a few days and play the game. its not like they are flying to east asia economy.
tommy played many years without great WR's. You can bet he would be tearing teams apart with the TE's NE has right now. Mac just doesnt have it.
I am beginning to think you may have a large mac collection... you seem to be making lots of excuses for him.
Its not necessarily luxury but even just the flight impacts the recovery period and sleep period for the body. The games are started at 9/9:30 am eastern time which means theyre waking up at like 5am at the lastest if they even slept. Players dont like these games.
Brady had weapons. Moss, Gronk, Welker, etc. He had a line, he had TEs, he had RBs.
He was without question better than Mac is, but to try and compare the weapons and Oline it just not even close.
Go look back when people were on me for saying Mac wont work there months ago. He wont work, but its not his fault and yes I do try and be fair to players
yes, some years Tommy had weapons. He had 2 whole years with Moss. many other years he did not have weapons. I am not going back through the years to recite his lack of talent of many years. you can do that yourself. One thing i do know is that you have not watched the patriots for very long.
Ever hear of Jabar Gaffney? How is that for talent?
@Darin said:
I’m wondering if basebal actually saw that interception Mac threw and how bad it was. A receiver broke wide open in the end zone and Mac under threw it 10 yards.
And basebal just asked Craig what Mac is supposed to do.
Well for one thing complete an easy TD pass so you don’t get benched for the last drive of the game.
there is absolutely no way that guy is actually watching the games. no way at all. If he is, he is seeing different things than 90% of everyone else.
@BillJones said:
Does anyone think that BB will be the Patriot’s coach in 2025? I hope not. He’s washed up.
Jones should gone too. He’s not an NFL quality quarterback.
Next year will be a tough a tough rebuilding year, but at least the Patriots will be rebuilding, not going down the drain.
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
I think the travel is way overrated for these european games. these guys are flying in luxury private jets. its only about a 7 hour flight from logan to munich. once your there, its just like any other away game. stay in a hotel room for a few days and play the game. its not like they are flying to east asia economy.
tommy played many years without great WR's. You can bet he would be tearing teams apart with the TE's NE has right now. Mac just doesnt have it.
I am beginning to think you may have a large mac collection... you seem to be making lots of excuses for him.
Its not necessarily luxury but even just the flight impacts the recovery period and sleep period for the body. The games are started at 9/9:30 am eastern time which means theyre waking up at like 5am at the lastest if they even slept. Players dont like these games.
Brady had weapons. Moss, Gronk, Welker, etc. He had a line, he had TEs, he had RBs.
He was without question better than Mac is, but to try and compare the weapons and Oline it just not even close.
Go look back when people were on me for saying Mac wont work there months ago. He wont work, but its not his fault and yes I do try and be fair to players
yes, some years Tommy had weapons. He had 2 whole years with Moss. many other years he did not have weapons. I am not going back through the years to recite his lack of talent of many years. you can do that yourself. One thing i do know is that you have not watched the patriots for very long.
Ever hear of Jabar Gaffney? How is that for talent?
An okay QB with no weapons means failure. What QB do you think would be successful with the current Patriots offense?
The point is that placing all the blame on Mac isnt fair to him. Thats an offensive roster currently that just simply isnt good enough and QBs will fail in
I watched NE-Wash a couple of weeks ago and there was one play in particular that really stood out to me.
in the first quarter the Patriots had the ball in Washington territory, 4th and 3 iirc. they went for it. a Pats receiver had broken free on a crosser and Mac -- who was not under duress -- sailed one that Wembanyama couldn't have caught. if he had hit him in stride he might have banged his head on the goal post.
but here's the really bizarre thing. after that horrendous miss the camera first went to Mac, who was trotting off the field like he was on a slow jog in the park. no hands on helmet, nothing. then before they cut to commercial they panned to Belichick who was completely motionless and expressionless, just staring straight ahead lol. and on top of that I didn't hear any reaction from the fans.
my thought was, everyone is just so used to this trash play from Jones that they're completely devoid of emotion at this point
@galaxy27 said:
I watched NE-Wash a couple of weeks ago and there was one play in particular that really stood out to me.
in the first quarter the Patriots had the ball in Washington territory, 4th and 3 iirc. they went for it. a Pats receiver had broken free on a crosser and Mac -- who was not under duress -- sailed one that Wembanyama couldn't have caught. if he had hit him in stride he might have banged his head on the goal post.
but here's the really bizarre thing. after that horrendous miss the camera first went to Mac, who was trotting off the field like he was on a slow jog in the park. no hands on helmet, nothing. then before they cut to commercial they panned to Belichick who was completely motionless and expressionless, just staring straight ahead lol. and on top of that I didn't hear any reaction from the fans.
my thought was, everyone is just so used to this trash play from Jones that they're completely devoid of emotion at this point
that is just another terrible aspect to Mac. He is devoid of leadership skills/poise. Teammates/fans pick up on that type of body language.
Quite a few guys on a patriots-focused forum that I follow are convinced Mac never starts for NE again. pulling the starter in a winnable game in the 4th quarter in a 2 minute drill situation could be the final straw.
and to do it just before the bye week
and then for BB to say that no decisions have been made almost sounds like the coffin has been sealed. when he pulled Mac last month, it was in blowouts and in the post game presser, BB said Mac would be starting the next week. not so today.
I think the biggest game of the season will be nov. 26th against the giants. It is an absolute must-lose game. it could give us the tiebreaker over ny in the draft. I hope they start Zeke at QB against the giants.
pulling mac was just punishment for the INT . pretty stupid to not have a backup QB
zappe is as damaged as mac , he played ok for a few games last year and then they treated him like garbage during the off season.
Foxboro is run like a government project now. All sorts of beta bureaucrats infighting shuffling deck chairs while rome burns!
im so upset i have mixed 3+ metaphors together!
@craig44 said:
I think the biggest game of the season will be nov. 26th against the giants. It is an absolute must-lose game. it could give us the tiebreaker over ny in the draft. I hope they start Zeke at QB against the giants.
You are forgetting “the Carolina Kittens.” They have one win under their belt and in the lead for the first draft pick. The Kitties could pick up a win or two since they are in the weakest division in the league, but they’re no guarantees.
When Brady left, I thought that BB would rebuild the team. I was wrong. He still plays his nasty game of treating players like trash with no quality left over. Kraft might think that the fans will still come if he puts a 3 and 14 team on the field for another season, but he’s wrong. Games like yesterday are real snoozers. Sleeping through a dull Patriots game at home is cheaper and more comfortable in your easy chair at home than at the stadium.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@craig44 said:
I think the biggest game of the season will be nov. 26th against the giants. It is an absolute must-lose game. it could give us the tiebreaker over ny in the draft. I hope they start Zeke at QB against the giants.
You are forgetting “the Carolina Kittens.” They have one win under their belt and in the lead for the first draft pick. The Kitties could pick up a win or two since they are in the weakest division in the league, but they’re no guarantees.
When Brady left, I thought that BB would rebuild the team. I was wrong. He still plays his nasty game of treating players like trash with no quality left over. Kraft might think that the fans will still come if he puts a 3 and 14 team on the field for another season, but he’s wrong. Games like yesterday are real snoozers. Sleeping through a dull Patriots game at home is cheaper and more comfortable in your easy chair at home than at the stadium.
I dont think the Patriots will get the 1st pick, but I would like as high as possible. If they can jump over the G-Men it would be great. The sad thing for the "kittens" is that they cant even use their first round pick. it belongs to the Bears. It is still mathematically possible that Chicago could have both the 1st and 2nd picks of next springs draft!
Looks like cornerback Jack Jones was made the scapegoat for their loss in Germany. I wonder if he actually made it back into the US before getting released.
That XMas gift would be much nicer if he's able to beat Houston & Chicago before then. 😎
The talk up here today is maybe its time to give Will Grier a shot. With the team heading into the bye it would give them two more weeks to possibly get Grier some first unit reps but this all depends on BB. Knowing Bill, he's likely to just go with Mac again in week 12 like that Colts game never happened.
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
i couldnt agree more with the author about Mac. In fact, I feel like I have been writing the same words about him being backup quality for quite a while now.
if you'd like some reading fodder, here's some in-depth analysis of the QBs coming out in next year's draft
make sure you read the first paragraph. if your team is in the market for a new signal caller, you do not want to be winning meaningless games from here on out
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
If Bill IS still around then this would probably be his wet dream...we own the 1st overall pick and he can trade it too whoever is at #2 so that they get Caleb Williams. Belichick gets his extra picks that he can jump around the draft with and we still get our QB in Maye. 😉
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
If Bill IS still around then this would probably be his wet dream...we own the 1st overall pick and he can trade it too whoever is at #2 so that they get Caleb Williams. Belichick gets his extra picks that he can jump around the draft with and we still get our QB in Maye. 😉
...
In the news today, even down here, so I am sure itll be up there a lot, is the idea that we will trade Belichick after the season. I'm sure this will eventually coincide with stories that we are going to trade for Vrabel this off-season.
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
If Bill IS still around then this would probably be his wet dream...we own the 1st overall pick and he can trade it too whoever is at #2 so that they get Caleb Williams. Belichick gets his extra picks that he can jump around the draft with and we still get our QB in Maye. 😉
...
In the news today, even down here, so I am sure itll be up there a lot, is the idea that we will trade Belichick after the season. I'm sure this will eventually coincide with stories that we are going to trade for Vrabel this off-season.
Bill Belichick would never agree to getting traded lol. That will happen right after you & I both win the lottery.
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
If Bill IS still around then this would probably be his wet dream...we own the 1st overall pick and he can trade it too whoever is at #2 so that they get Caleb Williams. Belichick gets his extra picks that he can jump around the draft with and we still get our QB in Maye. 😉
...
In the news today, even down here, so I am sure itll be up there a lot, is the idea that we will trade Belichick after the season. I'm sure this will eventually coincide with stories that we are going to trade for Vrabel this off-season.
Bill Belichick would never agree to getting traded lol. That will happen right after you & I both win the lottery.
...
If he wants to coach again after this season, and if the Pats plan on letting him go, it will definitely be conversation fodder.
@galaxy27 said:
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
If Bill IS still around then this would probably be his wet dream...we own the 1st overall pick and he can trade it too whoever is at #2 so that they get Caleb Williams. Belichick gets his extra picks that he can jump around the draft with and we still get our QB in Maye. 😉
...
In the news today, even down here, so I am sure itll be up there a lot, is the idea that we will trade Belichick after the season. I'm sure this will eventually coincide with stories that we are going to trade for Vrabel this off-season.
Bill Belichick would never agree to getting traded lol. That will happen right after you & I both win the lottery.
...
If he wants to coach again after this season, and if the Pats plan on letting him go, it will definitely be conversation fodder.
I don't think that Kraft would do him like that. they have too much success together for this to be treated like any other situation. For BB to actually get traded,especially without his consent, their relationship will have had to hit rock bottom for that to happen.
That being said,if it means more draft picks then I'm all for it. 😎
Comments
After that pick Mac threw Billy Boy probably figured even Betty White pre snickers bar could have done better, hence the change to the Zapper.
The shot of Belechick after the loss was priceless. He’s like damn why didn’t I retire when Brady left?
Cool what it’s doing to his winning percentage.
Bill you made your bed now tuck yourself in and sleep in it
He is doing a heck of a job busting that up lol
Jones is an NFL quality QB just not an elite one. Even Mahomes is struggling this year by his standards and he has better weapons. You simply cannot succeed in the NFL without at least a solid line if you can run or a good line if youre a pure pocket passer and you have to actually have WRs.
That said Jones does need to go to another team to have any shot of saving his career as a starter.
For Bill flip a coin. One days hes getting secretly extended as the highest paid coach ever, the next rumors of hes going to get fired. I would have thought this year would be his last one but only Kraft knows the answer.
Thank you very much Darin. I was late getting to the game today. watched it recorded. It was a little tight at the end, but Mac came through for us!!!! I am looking forward to April!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You are definitely not watching the games. Or you do not know QB play. Mac is not a quality QB. He will not be one. What he will be is Bryan Hoyer 2.0
He will make a lot of money holding a clip board (tablet) for a lot of years.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
yes, it was a terrible pick. It shows you what BB really thinks of Mac, to embarrass him this way at the end of the game.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Alright Patriots faithful (and Darin), do we officially have a QB controversy?
BB has officially shown his cards. He cant stand Mac. why else would he pull him when down one score in a 2-minute drill situation? A healthy pull no less.
BB clearly has no confidence in Mac.
The only confidence I have in him is that he will continue to lose us games on our drive to lose out the rest of the season.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Craig at least the running game was very good. After watching Mac today maybe tanking is the best way to go.😱
And today made me wonder if Brady was still their QB what would the record be. Because it would be a lot better than 2-8.
What exactly is he supposed to do? His line is shaky at best. the best WR on their roster Bill wont let play, the best WR they start would be the 3rd WR at best on multiple college teams. If Mac was on the 49ers and Purdy was on the Pats Purdy would be out of the league and Mac would be doing the same if not better.
Ive said he should have been average, never said he was elite and that it was never going to work with what was around him. He was was set up to fail. He could have been okay or good if he was lucky enough to get drafted somewhere else. You cannot succeed in the NFL as a QB without weapons
No matter who it was or what team it was I also wouldnt really worry about anything that happened in Germany. With the travel and the insanely early start time thats just a wild card for what happens
Belicheck ruined him last year
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
yup, tank away. I have been saying it since they lost judon.
and yes, they would be a better team with 46 year old Brady.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think the travel is way overrated for these european games. these guys are flying in luxury private jets. its only about a 7 hour flight from logan to munich. once your there, its just like any other away game. stay in a hotel room for a few days and play the game. its not like they are flying to east asia economy.
tommy played many years without great WR's. You can bet he would be tearing teams apart with the TE's NE has right now. Mac just doesnt have it.
I am beginning to think you may have a large mac collection... you seem to be making lots of excuses for him.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
everyone on the roster and all the coaches sucks .
and the owner sucks too
if i didn't live 20 miles from the stadium i would wish for a meteor impact
I’m wondering if basebal actually saw that interception Mac threw and how bad it was. A receiver broke wide open in the end zone and Mac under threw it 10 yards.
And basebal just asked Craig what Mac is supposed to do.
Well for one thing complete an easy TD pass so you don’t get benched for the last drive of the game.
Its not necessarily luxury but even just the flight impacts the recovery period and sleep period for the body. The games are started at 9/9:30 am eastern time which means theyre waking up at like 5am at the lastest if they even slept. Players dont like these games.
Brady had weapons. Moss, Gronk, Welker, etc. He had a line, he had TEs, he had RBs.
He was without question better than Mac is, but to try and compare the weapons and Oline it just not even close.
Go look back when people were on me for saying Mac wont work there months ago. He wont work, but its not his fault and yes I do try and be fair to players
Mac Jones is a terrible NFL quarterback and his days as a starter are numbered
every time I watch him in action I vow never to do it again, but it's like a train wreck and I just have to see it again. dude doesn't just miss easy throws, he misses them by a good 5-10 yards with regularity
his qbr was 25 today and he's ranked near the bottom for the season. he has no business doing anything other than holding a clipboard, and I'm not even sure he's qualified to do that
but wait, Basebal21 keeps telling me that Mac is a quality NFL quarterback...
who do I believe? My own eyes or Basebal21. I am so confused...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
yes, some years Tommy had weapons. He had 2 whole years with Moss. many other years he did not have weapons. I am not going back through the years to recite his lack of talent of many years. you can do that yourself. One thing i do know is that you have not watched the patriots for very long.
Ever hear of Jabar Gaffney? How is that for talent?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
there is absolutely no way that guy is actually watching the games. no way at all. If he is, he is seeing different things than 90% of everyone else.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
An okay QB with no weapons means failure. What QB do you think would be successful with the current Patriots offense?
The point is that placing all the blame on Mac isnt fair to him. Thats an offensive roster currently that just simply isnt good enough and QBs will fail in
I watched NE-Wash a couple of weeks ago and there was one play in particular that really stood out to me.
in the first quarter the Patriots had the ball in Washington territory, 4th and 3 iirc. they went for it. a Pats receiver had broken free on a crosser and Mac -- who was not under duress -- sailed one that Wembanyama couldn't have caught. if he had hit him in stride he might have banged his head on the goal post.
but here's the really bizarre thing. after that horrendous miss the camera first went to Mac, who was trotting off the field like he was on a slow jog in the park. no hands on helmet, nothing. then before they cut to commercial they panned to Belichick who was completely motionless and expressionless, just staring straight ahead lol. and on top of that I didn't hear any reaction from the fans.
my thought was, everyone is just so used to this trash play from Jones that they're completely devoid of emotion at this point
that is just another terrible aspect to Mac. He is devoid of leadership skills/poise. Teammates/fans pick up on that type of body language.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Quite a few guys on a patriots-focused forum that I follow are convinced Mac never starts for NE again. pulling the starter in a winnable game in the 4th quarter in a 2 minute drill situation could be the final straw.
and to do it just before the bye week
and then for BB to say that no decisions have been made almost sounds like the coffin has been sealed. when he pulled Mac last month, it was in blowouts and in the post game presser, BB said Mac would be starting the next week. not so today.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think the biggest game of the season will be nov. 26th against the giants. It is an absolute must-lose game. it could give us the tiebreaker over ny in the draft. I hope they start Zeke at QB against the giants.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
pulling mac was just punishment for the INT . pretty stupid to not have a backup QB
zappe is as damaged as mac , he played ok for a few games last year and then they treated him like garbage during the off season.
Foxboro is run like a government project now. All sorts of beta bureaucrats infighting shuffling deck chairs while rome burns!
im so upset i have mixed 3+ metaphors together!
You are forgetting “the Carolina Kittens.” They have one win under their belt and in the lead for the first draft pick. The Kitties could pick up a win or two since they are in the weakest division in the league, but they’re no guarantees.
When Brady left, I thought that BB would rebuild the team. I was wrong. He still plays his nasty game of treating players like trash with no quality left over. Kraft might think that the fans will still come if he puts a 3 and 14 team on the field for another season, but he’s wrong. Games like yesterday are real snoozers. Sleeping through a dull Patriots game at home is cheaper and more comfortable in your easy chair at home than at the stadium.
I dont think the Patriots will get the 1st pick, but I would like as high as possible. If they can jump over the G-Men it would be great. The sad thing for the "kittens" is that they cant even use their first round pick. it belongs to the Bears. It is still mathematically possible that Chicago could have both the 1st and 2nd picks of next springs draft!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Right now we're sitting at #3 thankfully due to the Bears & Cards both winning yesterday.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
that is what we like to hear!!!! Kyler did a great job for us yesterday
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Looks like cornerback Jack Jones was made the scapegoat for their loss in Germany. I wonder if he actually made it back into the US before getting released.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
i sure hope you guys buy Kyler Murray a Christmas present
make sure you read the part about Mac Jones lol
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/kyler-murray-s-cardinals-return-might-forever-change-the-future-of-the-giants-bears-and-patriots/ar-AA1jSb33
That XMas gift would be much nicer if he's able to beat Houston & Chicago before then. 😎
The talk up here today is maybe its time to give Will Grier a shot. With the team heading into the bye it would give them two more weeks to possibly get Grier some first unit reps but this all depends on BB. Knowing Bill, he's likely to just go with Mac again in week 12 like that Colts game never happened.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
it's pretty fascinating, all of it. prior to the season and throughout the first half, the talk around the Cardinals was tanking it all the way #1 pick, then dumping Murray and drafting Caleb Williams. well, it's all fun and games until you insert the guy you want out and he starts winning you games to take you out of the running for the guy you want to dump him for. now after yesterday it's like, well pop tarts he's the reason we just won. maybe he gives us the best chance to win and we should re-evaluate our stance? it's great theater.
Arizona has some winnable games in coming weeks -- they play the Texans, Rams, Bears, and Steelers. i don't expect them to beat Houston next weekend, but this is the NFL we're talking about here. n-e-thing can happen. when the dust settles i think they'll win themselves out of a top 3 pick, which would be great for New England.
i couldnt agree more with the author about Mac. In fact, I feel like I have been writing the same words about him being backup quality for quite a while now.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
if you'd like some reading fodder, here's some in-depth analysis of the QBs coming out in next year's draft
make sure you read the first paragraph. if your team is in the market for a new signal caller, you do not want to be winning meaningless games from here on out
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/positions/QB/1/2024
The Cards definitely have a conundrum on their hands in regards to trying to win with Murray or hope fto lose enough for Williams.
Didn't they just sign Murray to a top of the market type contract? Even if they get the chance to draft Caleb Williams they'd still be stuck in a tough spot if they give up on Kyler. They may have a hard time trading him with all of that money owed and releasing him would create some huge dead cap hits. Hopefully the Cards turn it around with him back now.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
you could have written this article
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096933-kyler-murrays-cardinals-contract-deemed-not-tradeable-by-nfl-execs-amid-rumors
New England needs to lose out to have any chance at top 2. Maybe even 3.
Theyre really only stuck with Murry for one more year. 2024 would be like an 80 mil cap hit if they cut him. 2025 his cap hit is 45.6 mil and 33.2 mil if they cut him. Not great but manageable., 2026 and 2027 his dead cap hits would only be 20.2 mil and then 7.2 mil.
His extension was a really weird move but they could still draft a QB and just sit them for a year if not they could just trade the pick to someone that does want a QB. As long as the Cards keep one of the elite picks at the very top and dont rip off a bunch of wins I would expect a QB to be drafted in that slot one way or another
If Arizona lands the 1st overall pick and draft Caleb Williams his cap hit in year one would be about 7M compared to Murray's 51M. This is cap hit we're talking not dead money (cap hit means your on team/ dead cap means off)
I used Bryce Young's salary structure as 2023 1st overall pick for Caleb's comparison.
That 58M combined for Caleb/Kyler is how much both players would cost the Cardinals if they're both on the roster for 2024. Certainly manageable but compare that to some of the other highest QB salaries & their backups combined, its not likely.
KC - Mahomes 37M/Gabbert 1M
Tenn - Tannehil 26M/Levis 1.7M
Detroit - Goff 31M/ Bridgewater 2.6M
Even the teams with the highest paid backup QBs don't come close to that 58M mentioned above.
Pittsburgh - Trubisky 8M, their starter Pickett costs just 3.1M
Washington - Brissett 8M,their starter Howell costs just 960K
The 2023 salary cap is 224M and is expected to go up in 2024 will the Cards be willing to pay roughly 1/4 of their total salary for two QBs coming off a season where they,in this situation, were the worst team in football? 🤷♂️
The other two scenarios are:
Trade Murray,problem solved. Then the Cards are in a much better cap situation where his new team likely reworks his contract like the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers which allowed the Packers to suffer just 40M of dead money on their 2024 cap.
Release Murray but then Arizona is looking at that 81M in dead money for 2024,then 33M in 2025 and so on. This would be their worst case scenario and it would probably make more sense to hold onto him until the dead money is much lower but then you open yourself up to a potential QB controversy. If Caleb Williams comes in and shows that he's the better QB then the Cards have a very tough decision to make.
Thinking about this situation had me going back to 2017 when NE had Brady coming off the 28-3 comeback vs Atlanta and with Garoppolo heading into free agency at the end of the season,this was the major sports topic in this area at the time.
IIRC Brady was on a very team friendly deal where his cap hit for 2018 would have been in the 17-20M and many fans wanted the Pats to hold onto Jimmy by giving him the franchise tag for 2018 which was around 21M. Again IIRC, their salaries combined for 2018 would have cost NE roughly 35-40M for that season which would have been roughly just under 1/4th of NE's total salary cap had they kept the two.
A QB controversy ensued and Kraft put his foot down and stuck with Tom,deservedly so, but the team moved on from a QB who looked tailor made for the system at a time when they probably could have made the money work while keeping Brady as starter.
My point being its easy for us to just say the Cards will just pay for both but its not always that simple.
This will all be moot anyways because Mac Jones is going to lead the Pats to that 1st overall pick and the Caleb Williams promise land 😉
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
.....
I am not up in New England, so please keep me updated, but I actually would expect NE fans to be more likely to want the number 2 pick. I'm talking about a "pray for Maye" campaign.
As far as Williams vs Maye and who would be the better pick? i have no clue. I just want to be on the safe side and land that 1st overall pick lol.
I haven't dug into any material up here about which QB should they go with if given the chance. Lately, its been more about,do we have to choose between Mac & Zappe to finish out the season? 🤷♂️
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
With the 1st pick, the expectation will be to take Williams. Unless Belichick is still around, and then any kind of hi-jinks could ensue.
I'm just putting it out there now, I expect to see a contingent of NE fans hoping for the 2 and latching onto pray for Maye merchandise and slogans.
If Bill IS still around then this would probably be his wet dream...we own the 1st overall pick and he can trade it too whoever is at #2 so that they get Caleb Williams. Belichick gets his extra picks that he can jump around the draft with and we still get our QB in Maye. 😉
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
In the news today, even down here, so I am sure itll be up there a lot, is the idea that we will trade Belichick after the season. I'm sure this will eventually coincide with stories that we are going to trade for Vrabel this off-season.
Bill Belichick would never agree to getting traded lol. That will happen right after you & I both win the lottery.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
If he wants to coach again after this season, and if the Pats plan on letting him go, it will definitely be conversation fodder.
I don't think that Kraft would do him like that. they have too much success together for this to be treated like any other situation. For BB to actually get traded,especially without his consent, their relationship will have had to hit rock bottom for that to happen.
That being said,if it means more draft picks then I'm all for it. 😎
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486