@Darin said:
I’m just giving Craig a little BS.
But seriously, what if a team did tank on purpose and got the coveted draft pick and player they really wanted. And then that player turned into a complete bust in the NFL?
And their second choice who they would have gotten if they hadn’t tanked turned into a superstar.
My opinion…. Play hard and let the chips fall where they may.
I agree, there is ZERO guarantee that a high draft pick let alone a top QB will work out
Aside from injuries there are a lot of positions that are pretty predictable. QBs have a hit or miss rate at all levels mostly because of the situations they get put in. O Line and WRs have an extremely high success rate unless it was just a flat out bad pick
If the front office isn't deadset on a certain QB with their 1st round pick then I have no problem with drafting an elite Left Tackle that will shore up that position for hopefully the next 8-10 years. Then go grab a QB with their 2nd rounder,maybe even trade up if needed.
WR on the other hand has really been BB's achilles heal in the draft since coming to NE. While he's found a few that developed into big game standouts like Deion Branch,Julian Edelman & David Givens, there have been so many that have turned into busts .
N'Keal Harry,Chad Jackson,Aaron Dobson,Bethel Johnson,Brandon Tate,Taylor Price,Josh Boyce,Malcolm Mitchell (the jury is still out on Tyquan Thornton but its not looking good.)
All taken in the 1st to 4th rounds and while some of the blame could be put on Brady,his circle of trust was a real thing for most of the 2010s and he had a short lease with young wrs, none of those wrs ever really made an impact in NE or just developed any type of conisistency.
BB has also never drafted what many would consider to be a standout #1 WR. Branch & Edelman eventually became that guy in their own way as slot wideouts but to come out of the draft with someone that gives you a 80/1000/10 season right from the start,that would be like finding a Unicorn in NE lol. Pure fantasy.
I know Bill has a bad record with WRs, but given that they should have a top 5 or 6 pick I would be impressed if he messed up a WR in that slot even if the Bears took 2 WRs ahead of them. Theres multiple guys that can be legit number 1s in this draft and theres a range of style for it too. Theres more than one big boy thats 6'4 and can just dominate DBs for balls in the air and theres some 6 footers that run elite routes and catch everything. Different teams obviously have different needs and with the OTs, Edge rushers etc some of these WRs will get pushed down the draft which would be a good thing for a team looking to steal one of them in the next round. At least one if not 2 or 3 should go int the 1st round though.
There has been an interesting development on the QB side too. Ewers for Texas is going to miss a few weeks with an AC joint sprain which is the second time in two years. Thered obviously be some risk there but depending how he heals he could be a guy you could get later on that should have went early. Someone might just go ahead an take him early anyways or he could return to school if he thinks hed slide to far.
I do still think if they are going to move on from Mac they should just use that first pick on a QB where they should still have one of the best on the board even if they arent going to start him that first year. Then use those 2nd and 3rd rounders to grab a WR and/or a RB that will have probably fallen with how devalued they are now.
Realistically they will likely have a high draft pick next year too. I dont hate the idea of taking a OT and they certainly are very valuable. but teams probably are looking at 2 more years before the next highly touted group of QBs comes out. A lot of the biggest names that arent starting are freshman and some of them will for sure fail. Right now theres a lot more questions about the 2025 QBs than there are the lineman that are already playing. Of course this all just depends on if they are going to stick with Mac or move on, if they stick with him take the OT and a WR if not take the QB and go from there
he doesn't miss on WR drafts in a vacuum . there are studs taken 4 rounds later he passed up multiple rounds to take long snappers punters etc.
its willful negligence
The TV schedule is disappointing today. Usually my local station runs the Miami game, but this time they chose Jacksonville and the Dallas - Rams game.
If the Patriots are going to make anything of their season, today is the day. If they beat Miami, they have a chance to move up. If not, well, it's time to pile up the losses to get a better draft pick.
Miami as always be tough for the Patriots, even when they were good, especially the game in Miami. I'm expecting them to revert to form, but maybe they will fool me. Was the Buffalo game BB's last gasp?
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Just as I thought. Boring. Maybe the network will cut to something decent.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
....
I'm seeing us at 4.
ETA and after today I think we will be lower probably.
There are too many bad teams, and we don't want to be screwed by the sos tie breaker. To have any chance of staying top 4 or 5 at least, we might need to lose out...lol
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
....
I'm seeing us at 4.
ETA and after today I think we will be lower probably.
There are too many bad teams, and we don't want to be screwed by the sos tie breaker. To have any chance of staying top 4 or 5 at least, we might need to lose out...lol
I'm just using ESPN's overall bottom of the league standings where they're 3rd but tied with NYG at 2-6. No matter what there's going to be some type of tie brekers,that can't be helped when there's likely to be many teams in the 1-2-3 wins range.
WAS/NYG/DEN/LAC/IND all fall in that grouping and are still on the schedule to play out.
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
the pats have been tanking since brady left. Convince me it is not deliberate!
unless maybe bill got all 5 covid boosters and had half a dozen strokes
dum dee dum dum , ooh cam newton is our guy , hey lets draft a long snapper , matt and joe will lead the offense!
exhibits a-z
The prosecution rests !!!!!!
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
Brown is very likely a CTE case with how that has been turning out and goes far past what happens during games.
Not trying on plays where the ball isnt going to be thrown to you is different than actively tanking knowing that a single pick can can make your team championship caliber like you see in the NBA. Simply taking a bad shot doesnt mean they are tanking but tanking is a real thing in the NBA which is why they had to do the lottery and it still hasnt really stopped it. Theres a couple guys that matter and teams will start sitting them and they will lose interest for a better pick. The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
MLB is an enigma too where you will see everyone traded away but even with the first pick it wont make a major difference and probably wont even see the player for a couple years.
NFL who ever gets put on the field is going to try to not only not get hurt but to keep their job. Its the sport where you see teams that should be trying to lose win a game or two that drops their draft pick like the Texans last year. I definitely agree that tanking is on the front offices not the players, but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team. You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
Brown is very likely a CTE case with how that has been turning out and goes far past what happens during games.
Not trying on plays where the ball isnt going to be thrown to you is different than actively tanking knowing that a single pick can can make your team championship caliber like you see in the NBA. Simply taking a bad shot doesnt mean they are tanking but tanking is a real thing in the NBA which is why they had to do the lottery and it still hasnt really stopped it. Theres a couple guys that matter and teams will start sitting them and they will lose interest for a better pick. The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
MLB is an enigma too where you will see everyone traded away but even with the first pick it wont make a major difference and probably wont even see the player for a couple years.
NFL who ever gets put on the field is going to try to not only not get hurt but to keep their job. Its the sport where you see teams that should be trying to lose win a game or two that drops their draft pick like the Texans last year. I definitely agree that tanking is on the front offices not the players, but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team. You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
i agree with most of what you said there, my explanation was about how NBA teams go about tanking. My issue was more with your previous comment saying The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying, thats just not true at all.
NBA players aren't any different than the other sports,they all play hard. Maybe not full on for the entire game but that could also be said just the same about the NFL & MLB. There comes a certain moment during most plays where a pro player sees that he's entirely out of the play and does nothing. Watch any skyview of any NFL play and there's always someone that sticks out because it looks like he put in zero effort on the play.
When your HC/GM removes most of the talent on your team,you're stuck playing with players that rarely get to play. Most of the time they're young players in their 1st or 2nd season who are far from being developed and then a starting five gets thrown out there that has had really no oncourt continuity together. Bad shots,indecisiveness & turnovers may occur,thats not considered not trying hard,its just a group of players that tend to not get much practice time playing together.
I disagree that 1 single draft pick guarantees anything especially right away. before Wemby, Lebron was considered the highest touted/can't miss prospect coming out of the draft and it took 3 seasons before his Cavs made the playoffs. Cleveland made the Finals in year 4 but were swept. You need to add high end talent to that high draft pick or your not winning anything. Lebron eventually moved to Miami because the Cavs didn't do that.
Again,Its the organization that tanks not the players.
but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team.
I forgot this part, you're making my point there. When a team only has 1or2 legit players and the team decides to tank,that player(s) either ends up getting traded,bought out or in certain cases,end up on IR for the remainder of the season. We're talking about a bad team to begin with but remove two of their best players from a team,they're then going with marginal type players that could be out of the league in a year.
You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
We've seen plenty of NFL teams that reach a point in their season where the playoffs aren't happening and coaching decides to see more of what the younger players can do. At that point its less about winning and more about higher draft picks along with more player development.
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
Brown is very likely a CTE case with how that has been turning out and goes far past what happens during games.
Not trying on plays where the ball isnt going to be thrown to you is different than actively tanking knowing that a single pick can can make your team championship caliber like you see in the NBA. Simply taking a bad shot doesnt mean they are tanking but tanking is a real thing in the NBA which is why they had to do the lottery and it still hasnt really stopped it. Theres a couple guys that matter and teams will start sitting them and they will lose interest for a better pick. The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
MLB is an enigma too where you will see everyone traded away but even with the first pick it wont make a major difference and probably wont even see the player for a couple years.
NFL who ever gets put on the field is going to try to not only not get hurt but to keep their job. Its the sport where you see teams that should be trying to lose win a game or two that drops their draft pick like the Texans last year. I definitely agree that tanking is on the front offices not the players, but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team. You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
i agree with most of what you said there, my explanation was about how NBA teams go about tanking. My issue was more with your previous comment saying The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying, thats just not true at all.
NBA players aren't any different than the other sports,they all play hard. Maybe not full on for the entire game but that could also be said just the same about the NFL & MLB. There comes a certain moment during most plays where a pro player sees that he's entirely out of the play and does nothing. Watch any skyview of any NFL play and there's always someone that sticks out because it looks like he put in zero effort on the play.
When your HC/GM removes most of the talent on your team,you're stuck playing with players that rarely get to play. Most of the time they're young players in their 1st or 2nd season who are far from being developed and then a starting five gets thrown out there that has had really no oncourt continuity together. Bad shots,indecisiveness & turnovers may occur,thats not considered not trying hard,its just a group of players that tend to not get much practice time playing together.
I disagree that 1 single draft pick guarantees anything especially right away. before Wemby, Lebron was considered the highest touted/can't miss prospect coming out of the draft and it took 3 seasons before his Cavs made the playoffs. Cleveland made the Finals in year 4 but were swept. You need to add high end talent to that high draft pick or your not winning anything. Lebron eventually moved to Miami because the Cavs didn't do that.
Again,Its the organization that tanks not the players.
Not to get to far off topic with the NBA talk, but I will just say that in terms of Lebron he basically turned that franchise around single handedly. They were not very good teams he was talking to the playoffs and even to the finals
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
I can't disagree with you, I'm not all that familiar with him.but let's see if the kid can play, this is exactly why if I was going into the draft I'd absolutely tell.my agent I won't play for Belichick
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
Brown is very likely a CTE case with how that has been turning out and goes far past what happens during games.
Not trying on plays where the ball isnt going to be thrown to you is different than actively tanking knowing that a single pick can can make your team championship caliber like you see in the NBA. Simply taking a bad shot doesnt mean they are tanking but tanking is a real thing in the NBA which is why they had to do the lottery and it still hasnt really stopped it. Theres a couple guys that matter and teams will start sitting them and they will lose interest for a better pick. The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
MLB is an enigma too where you will see everyone traded away but even with the first pick it wont make a major difference and probably wont even see the player for a couple years.
NFL who ever gets put on the field is going to try to not only not get hurt but to keep their job. Its the sport where you see teams that should be trying to lose win a game or two that drops their draft pick like the Texans last year. I definitely agree that tanking is on the front offices not the players, but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team. You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
i agree with most of what you said there, my explanation was about how NBA teams go about tanking. My issue was more with your previous comment saying The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying, thats just not true at all.
NBA players aren't any different than the other sports,they all play hard. Maybe not full on for the entire game but that could also be said just the same about the NFL & MLB. There comes a certain moment during most plays where a pro player sees that he's entirely out of the play and does nothing. Watch any skyview of any NFL play and there's always someone that sticks out because it looks like he put in zero effort on the play.
When your HC/GM removes most of the talent on your team,you're stuck playing with players that rarely get to play. Most of the time they're young players in their 1st or 2nd season who are far from being developed and then a starting five gets thrown out there that has had really no oncourt continuity together. Bad shots,indecisiveness & turnovers may occur,thats not considered not trying hard,its just a group of players that tend to not get much practice time playing together.
I disagree that 1 single draft pick guarantees anything especially right away. before Wemby, Lebron was considered the highest touted/can't miss prospect coming out of the draft and it took 3 seasons before his Cavs made the playoffs. Cleveland made the Finals in year 4 but were swept. You need to add high end talent to that high draft pick or your not winning anything. Lebron eventually moved to Miami because the Cavs didn't do that.
Again,Its the organization that tanks not the players.
Not to get to far off topic with the NBA talk, but I will just say that in terms of Lebron he basically turned that franchise around single handedly. They were not very good teams he was talking to the playoffs and even to the finals
My Lebron remark was in regards to this: The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
there are plenty of 1st overall picks that eventually lead their teams to the playoffs but very rarely have they led them to championships.
Just looking at Lebron's draft (2003) till now, there have been just 2 players that were drafted by their original team and won a championship with said team.
Kyrie &
'Lebron,who really is an anomally here because he left Cleveland,won elsewhere then went back to Cleveland to win one. that NEVER happens in the NBA. Once leave your OG team, the majority of times you aren't going back unless you're traded there down the line but even that rarely happens.
Then you have a total of 5 players who won rings after leaving their original team: Lebron,Dwight Howard,Andrew Bogut.Anthony Davis & Andrew Wiggins. Other than Lebron & AD,the rest were nothing more than very good role players at the time.
My point is ,sure, the NBA rosters are much smaller than other sports and you can sometimes find a guy who turns the franchise around but very very rarely does one guy lead to immediate success. Even when you do find someone like that in Lebron, it still takes the team putting numerous pieces around him in order to win. This was the reason why he left Cleveland in the first place.
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
I can't disagree with you, I'm not all that familiar with him.but let's see if the kid can play, this is exactly why if I was going into the draft I'd absolutely tell.my agent I won't play for Belichick
I'm not joking
The weird thing was,Boutte & Douglas both had great training camps to the point that BB held them out of the preseason games. What happened to this kid between then and now?
I just checked the Pats stats and he hasn't played since week 1 and all I can remember from that game was 1(or 2) nice grabs near the sidelines but he didn't get his foot down in time. He's been a ghost ever since.
Sidenote: why aren't they getting TE Pharoah Brown more involved? The guy seems to make one big play a game and has caught every ball thrown his way this season (7 receptions w/ 24.3ypr)
Imo,he'll never be Gronk but give him some more targets to see how he does.
@erikthredd said:
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
Brown is very likely a CTE case with how that has been turning out and goes far past what happens during games.
Not trying on plays where the ball isnt going to be thrown to you is different than actively tanking knowing that a single pick can can make your team championship caliber like you see in the NBA. Simply taking a bad shot doesnt mean they are tanking but tanking is a real thing in the NBA which is why they had to do the lottery and it still hasnt really stopped it. Theres a couple guys that matter and teams will start sitting them and they will lose interest for a better pick. The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
MLB is an enigma too where you will see everyone traded away but even with the first pick it wont make a major difference and probably wont even see the player for a couple years.
NFL who ever gets put on the field is going to try to not only not get hurt but to keep their job. Its the sport where you see teams that should be trying to lose win a game or two that drops their draft pick like the Texans last year. I definitely agree that tanking is on the front offices not the players, but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team. You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
i agree with most of what you said there, my explanation was about how NBA teams go about tanking. My issue was more with your previous comment saying The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying, thats just not true at all.
NBA players aren't any different than the other sports,they all play hard. Maybe not full on for the entire game but that could also be said just the same about the NFL & MLB. There comes a certain moment during most plays where a pro player sees that he's entirely out of the play and does nothing. Watch any skyview of any NFL play and there's always someone that sticks out because it looks like he put in zero effort on the play.
When your HC/GM removes most of the talent on your team,you're stuck playing with players that rarely get to play. Most of the time they're young players in their 1st or 2nd season who are far from being developed and then a starting five gets thrown out there that has had really no oncourt continuity together. Bad shots,indecisiveness & turnovers may occur,thats not considered not trying hard,its just a group of players that tend to not get much practice time playing together.
I disagree that 1 single draft pick guarantees anything especially right away. before Wemby, Lebron was considered the highest touted/can't miss prospect coming out of the draft and it took 3 seasons before his Cavs made the playoffs. Cleveland made the Finals in year 4 but were swept. You need to add high end talent to that high draft pick or your not winning anything. Lebron eventually moved to Miami because the Cavs didn't do that.
Again,Its the organization that tanks not the players.
Not to get to far off topic with the NBA talk, but I will just say that in terms of Lebron he basically turned that franchise around single handedly. They were not very good teams he was talking to the playoffs and even to the finals
My Lebron remark was in regards to this: The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
there are plenty of 1st overall picks that eventually lead their teams to the playoffs but very rarely have they led them to championships.
Just looking at Lebron's draft (2003) till now, there have been just 2 players that were drafted by their original team and won a championship with said team.
Kyrie &
'Lebron,who really is an anomally here because he left Cleveland,won elsewhere then went back to Cleveland to win one. that NEVER happens in the NBA. Once leave your OG team, the majority of times you aren't going back unless you're traded there down the line but even that rarely happens.
Then you have a total of 5 players who won rings after leaving their original team: Lebron,Dwight Howard,Andrew Bogut.Anthony Davis & Andrew Wiggins. Other than Lebron & AD,the rest were nothing more than very good role players at the time.
My point is ,sure, the NBA rosters are much smaller than other sports and you can sometimes find a guy who turns the franchise around but very very rarely does one guy lead to immediate success. Even when you do find someone like that in Lebron, it still takes the team putting numerous pieces around him in order to win. This was the reason why he left Cleveland in the first place.
I agree you definitely need more than one guy for success now with how the players keep making super teams, but its definitely the team sport where 1 guy can have the most impact
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
I can't disagree with you, I'm not all that familiar with him.but let's see if the kid can play, this is exactly why if I was going into the draft I'd absolutely tell.my agent I won't play for Belichick
I'm not joking
I really wouldnt want to either. He can play when he wants to play. It is possible that him and Mac just dont get along which is one of the things that happened at LSU. He was basically the guy his freshman year and then wasnt happy when Daniels came in and they just didnt connect or whatever and than Nambers came in who is a stud and took the role.
Mac and Boutte have played against each other before and Boutte was very good in that game. It definitely seems more like a Bill issue trying to act like a HS coach instead of putting the best option on the field and seeing how it goes. I thought it was going to be a bad fit with his personality and Bill and seems to be even worse than expected where he isnt even playing
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
This is one of BB's trademarks. If you get on his bad side, for whatever reason, you will not play. even in the super bowl. ask malcom butler.
@bronco2078 said:
can we all agree the patriots no longer rate a thread of their own?
Shut this all down or rename it the Tom Brady did all of it appreciation thread.
retire Bill the sidecar would also work
I have always been a players are more important than coaching staff guy, but my needle is definitely swinging further in that direction after the last 4 years. I always thought it was Tommy, now I am pretty sure it was Tommy.
Reports say that BB has made Josh Uche available in trades. Hopefully someone will be willing to pay up for a pass rusher. Haven't seen any other names being mentioned in deals.
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
This is one of BB's trademarks. If you get on his bad side, for whatever reason, you will not play. even in the super bowl. ask malcom butler.
Thats what makes no sense. Why draft a guy that two top coaches in college couldnt change if you arent prepared to put up with him. Its just a wasted pick to take someone you know isnt going to act like a high school player scared of the coach that then will get benched for it
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
This is one of BB's trademarks. If you get on his bad side, for whatever reason, you will not play. even in the super bowl. ask malcom butler.
Thats what makes no sense. Why draft a guy that two top coaches in college couldnt change if you arent prepared to put up with him. Its just a wasted pick to take someone you know isnt going to act like a high school player scared of the coach that then will get benched for it
Bill walks about sniffing his own farts all day. he thinks he can change them , he also thinks those rings were all his doing
@bronco2078 said:
can we all agree the patriots no longer rate a thread of their own?
Shut this all down or rename it the Tom Brady did all of it appreciation thread.
retire Bill the sidecar would also work
The Patriots are back to the losing team they were before Brady. They will never get better as long as Belichick is the coach and draft picker. He’s washed up and should realize it before he embarrasses himself further. Maybe finishing last in the division will convince him.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
This is one of BB's trademarks. If you get on his bad side, for whatever reason, you will not play. even in the super bowl. ask malcom butler.
Thats what makes no sense. Why draft a guy that two top coaches in college couldnt change if you arent prepared to put up with him. Its just a wasted pick to take someone you know isnt going to act like a high school player scared of the coach that then will get benched for it
I agree. it is maddening. I have seen so many times, a player make a fumble then out the rest of the game. I always felt it was worse to make a player play scared of making a mistake.
His hubris likely cost us a super bowl with the benching of Malcom Butler. We couldnt stop anything in that SB. the defense was like a sieve. It is highly doubtful the Patriots give up 41 points if they have their number 1 corner and the rest of the secondary doesnt have to shift assignments after finding out the day of the super bowl.
@erikthredd said:
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
This is one of BB's trademarks. If you get on his bad side, for whatever reason, you will not play. even in the super bowl. ask malcom butler.
Thats what makes no sense. Why draft a guy that two top coaches in college couldnt change if you arent prepared to put up with him. Its just a wasted pick to take someone you know isnt going to act like a high school player scared of the coach that then will get benched for it
I agree. it is maddening. I have seen so many times, a player make a fumble then out the rest of the game. I always felt it was worse to make a player play scared of making a mistake.
His hubris likely cost us a super bowl with the benching of Malcom Butler. We couldnt stop anything in that SB. the defense was like a sieve. It is highly doubtful the Patriots give up 41 points if they have their number 1 corner and the rest of the secondary doesnt have to shift assignments after finding out the day of the super bowl.
Making a player scared to make a mistake is without question the worse thing you can do to a player. Many players have been ruined by that at all levels. Instead of trying to make plays they start to try and not mess up which is not what got them to that point of their career in the first place. Its one thing to get upset about a dumb penalty like an egregiously late hit and mistakes like that, but every single player in the history of every sport has made psychical mistakes. Its just part of the game.
Even with something like fumbles, fair enough if a guy has a fumbling problem, but one shouldnt put you on the bench unless the coach is also willing to give up the head set and bench themselves for making a bad decision/play call.
BB added to his Tom Landry “go out with a poof” legacy today. At this rate he pass Shula’s win record in 2050. He needs to retire and stop embarrassing himself.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
That was bad, especially since Washington traded away half their D line at the deadline.
Side note Washington deserves to lose every game as long as they have that horrible name.
Rumor mill is really swirling today though. Reports from "sources" that if Bill doesnt have a big turnaround this is likely his last year and they will just eat the contract. Others have Washington interested in him if hes gone and supposedly Vrable would be the preferred replacement by far.
Could all just be reporters trying to throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks and I wouldnt hold my breath over any of it
Comments
I know Bill has a bad record with WRs, but given that they should have a top 5 or 6 pick I would be impressed if he messed up a WR in that slot even if the Bears took 2 WRs ahead of them. Theres multiple guys that can be legit number 1s in this draft and theres a range of style for it too. Theres more than one big boy thats 6'4 and can just dominate DBs for balls in the air and theres some 6 footers that run elite routes and catch everything. Different teams obviously have different needs and with the OTs, Edge rushers etc some of these WRs will get pushed down the draft which would be a good thing for a team looking to steal one of them in the next round. At least one if not 2 or 3 should go int the 1st round though.
There has been an interesting development on the QB side too. Ewers for Texas is going to miss a few weeks with an AC joint sprain which is the second time in two years. Thered obviously be some risk there but depending how he heals he could be a guy you could get later on that should have went early. Someone might just go ahead an take him early anyways or he could return to school if he thinks hed slide to far.
I do still think if they are going to move on from Mac they should just use that first pick on a QB where they should still have one of the best on the board even if they arent going to start him that first year. Then use those 2nd and 3rd rounders to grab a WR and/or a RB that will have probably fallen with how devalued they are now.
Realistically they will likely have a high draft pick next year too. I dont hate the idea of taking a OT and they certainly are very valuable. but teams probably are looking at 2 more years before the next highly touted group of QBs comes out. A lot of the biggest names that arent starting are freshman and some of them will for sure fail. Right now theres a lot more questions about the 2025 QBs than there are the lineman that are already playing. Of course this all just depends on if they are going to stick with Mac or move on, if they stick with him take the OT and a WR if not take the QB and go from there
Missouri 14 OSU 3
trade bill for a 6th round pick
he doesn't miss on WR drafts in a vacuum . there are studs taken 4 rounds later he passed up multiple rounds to take long snappers punters etc.
its willful negligence
The TV schedule is disappointing today. Usually my local station runs the Miami game, but this time they chose Jacksonville and the Dallas - Rams game.
If the Patriots are going to make anything of their season, today is the day. If they beat Miami, they have a chance to move up. If not, well, it's time to pile up the losses to get a better draft pick.
Miami as always be tough for the Patriots, even when they were good, especially the game in Miami. I'm expecting them to revert to form, but maybe they will fool me. Was the Buffalo game BB's last gasp?
Wow, that was a pretty quick score!
Eric
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That drive where the Dolphins went up 14-7 was BS. We can't beat the refs.
That scramble up the middle by tua to pick up the 4th pissed me off. Why leave that lane? And why just let him run? Punish him. PUNISH HIM.
And Hill, don't let that punk just do what he wants. HIT HIM> HIT HIM>
Nice one, Mac! 🤬
Eric
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Great, another Mac int
Dallas 33, Rams 3
Just as I thought. Boring. Maybe the network will cut to something decent.
Nice! Now put it in the endzone already.
Eric
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Trade Mac for a 6th.
Crappy game all around but it was expected
I fell asleep in the 3rd and it looks like I didn't miss much. 🤣🤣
At least we dropped to 3rd in the draft. 👍
Eric
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.....
I am happy that it looks like Belichick still has control of the team and that the team is still playing hard. This is important.
....
I'm seeing us at 4.
ETA and after today I think we will be lower probably.
There are too many bad teams, and we don't want to be screwed by the sos tie breaker. To have any chance of staying top 4 or 5 at least, we might need to lose out...lol
I'm just using ESPN's overall bottom of the league standings where they're 3rd but tied with NYG at 2-6. No matter what there's going to be some type of tie brekers,that can't be helped when there's likely to be many teams in the 1-2-3 wins range.
WAS/NYG/DEN/LAC/IND all fall in that grouping and are still on the schedule to play out.
Eric
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I don't see our guys laying down ever, that's one thing Bill would not tolerate, if he felt a player was not putting an effort in he would be cut.
That I'm certain on
they will be the proudest 2-15 team evah !
Thats not a Bill thing for the NFL though. The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying or take bad shots type thing. NFL careers are short and not trying increases chances of getting hurt. NFL teams cant tank by asking players too, they have to do it by play calls and personal decisions. Who ever gets put on the field is going to try to win
Missouri 14 OSU 3
the pats have been tanking since brady left. Convince me it is not deliberate!
unless maybe bill got all 5 covid boosters and had half a dozen strokes
dum dee dum dum , ooh cam newton is our guy , hey lets draft a long snapper , matt and joe will lead the offense!
exhibits a-z
The prosecution rests !!!!!!
No, I don't think its really an NBA thing at all. For every James Harden or Kyrie Irving there's a Vontae Davis,Antonio Brown or Randy Moss who did the same in their own way. Also there are plenty of players who take bad shots and it has zero to do with tanking. they're just players who tend to take bad shots.
When NBA teams decide to tank, they'll first trade away any expiring contracts on the books regardless of how good the guy is. Then they look to buyout anyone carrying money into the future that they decided won't make much of a contribution during that stretch.
Then when it comes to injuries the team may decide that rather than have a guy rehabbing who might make it back with a month or two left on the schedule,they'll try to convince him to sit out the rest of the year. This usually only works when that player has some security in his contract where he's signed for another year or two.
Usually teams that tank are bad teams whose rosters consist of young players trying to find their footing in the league, mid-level type players who saw their team give a slight overpay to get them to sign (most players would prefer to to play with teams that have a chance at the playoffs.
Players on those tanking teams aren't going out of their way to half-ass it or just shoot bad shots,they're out there giving it their all just like NFL players do.
Its the front offices /coaching staffs that do all that they can to remove the top end talent on their roster in order to play 2nd or 3rd string players, who play at high effort on the court but just aren't talented enough to win anything but the occassional game.
Very rarely in any of the top 4 pro sport leagues do players actually tank (outside of the occassional narcissistic wingnut,)
it always comes down to the coaching staff,front office & ownership making those decisions. The players just play like its any other game.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Brown is very likely a CTE case with how that has been turning out and goes far past what happens during games.
Not trying on plays where the ball isnt going to be thrown to you is different than actively tanking knowing that a single pick can can make your team championship caliber like you see in the NBA. Simply taking a bad shot doesnt mean they are tanking but tanking is a real thing in the NBA which is why they had to do the lottery and it still hasnt really stopped it. Theres a couple guys that matter and teams will start sitting them and they will lose interest for a better pick. The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
MLB is an enigma too where you will see everyone traded away but even with the first pick it wont make a major difference and probably wont even see the player for a couple years.
NFL who ever gets put on the field is going to try to not only not get hurt but to keep their job. Its the sport where you see teams that should be trying to lose win a game or two that drops their draft pick like the Texans last year. I definitely agree that tanking is on the front offices not the players, but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team. You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
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i agree with most of what you said there, my explanation was about how NBA teams go about tanking. My issue was more with your previous comment saying The NBA is really the only one where players would stop trying, thats just not true at all.
NBA players aren't any different than the other sports,they all play hard. Maybe not full on for the entire game but that could also be said just the same about the NFL & MLB. There comes a certain moment during most plays where a pro player sees that he's entirely out of the play and does nothing. Watch any skyview of any NFL play and there's always someone that sticks out because it looks like he put in zero effort on the play.
When your HC/GM removes most of the talent on your team,you're stuck playing with players that rarely get to play. Most of the time they're young players in their 1st or 2nd season who are far from being developed and then a starting five gets thrown out there that has had really no oncourt continuity together. Bad shots,indecisiveness & turnovers may occur,thats not considered not trying hard,its just a group of players that tend to not get much practice time playing together.
I disagree that 1 single draft pick guarantees anything especially right away. before Wemby, Lebron was considered the highest touted/can't miss prospect coming out of the draft and it took 3 seasons before his Cavs made the playoffs. Cleveland made the Finals in year 4 but were swept. You need to add high end talent to that high draft pick or your not winning anything. Lebron eventually moved to Miami because the Cavs didn't do that.
Again,Its the organization that tanks not the players.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
but with the NBA theres only a couple players that really matter on each team.
I forgot this part, you're making my point there. When a team only has 1or2 legit players and the team decides to tank,that player(s) either ends up getting traded,bought out or in certain cases,end up on IR for the remainder of the season. We're talking about a bad team to begin with but remove two of their best players from a team,they're then going with marginal type players that could be out of the league in a year.
You can certainly see in all the sports where a top player might just sit out an injury late in the season for meaningless games though it is less in the NFL with how short career paths are and how many players get replaced every year.
We've seen plenty of NFL teams that reach a point in their season where the playoffs aren't happening and coaching decides to see more of what the younger players can do. At that point its less about winning and more about higher draft picks along with more player development.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Kendrick Bourne has a torn ACL. He's likely played his last game in NE.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
sports radio said all other WR's have less than 500 yards combined !
Oh bill you've done it again
i wonder if someone could give us how many millions of dollars devante parker gets per catch
Not to get to far off topic with the NBA talk, but I will just say that in terms of Lebron he basically turned that franchise around single handedly. They were not very good teams he was talking to the playoffs and even to the finals
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Its true but a little misleading ignoring the TEs whose numbers arent great either.
The weird part is not playing Boutte. I get hes a diva and has an attitude problem which is why LSU benched him and likely told him not to come back, but he is the most talented WR they have. Its one thing to get benched at LSU who has multiple first round WRs on the roster, its another to get benched on a team that really has no WRs and it just doesnt make sense to me. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him which is why he fell so far so if they werent going to play him and put up with him what was the point of drafting him?
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I can't disagree with you, I'm not all that familiar with him.but let's see if the kid can play, this is exactly why if I was going into the draft I'd absolutely tell.my agent I won't play for Belichick
I'm not joking
My Lebron remark was in regards to this:
The NBA is unique in the fact that a single pick can be the difference between a championship or missing the playoffs.
there are plenty of 1st overall picks that eventually lead their teams to the playoffs but very rarely have they led them to championships.
Just looking at Lebron's draft (2003) till now, there have been just 2 players that were drafted by their original team and won a championship with said team.
Kyrie &
'Lebron,who really is an anomally here because he left Cleveland,won elsewhere then went back to Cleveland to win one. that NEVER happens in the NBA. Once leave your OG team, the majority of times you aren't going back unless you're traded there down the line but even that rarely happens.
Then you have a total of 5 players who won rings after leaving their original team: Lebron,Dwight Howard,Andrew Bogut.Anthony Davis & Andrew Wiggins. Other than Lebron & AD,the rest were nothing more than very good role players at the time.
My point is ,sure, the NBA rosters are much smaller than other sports and you can sometimes find a guy who turns the franchise around but very very rarely does one guy lead to immediate success. Even when you do find someone like that in Lebron, it still takes the team putting numerous pieces around him in order to win. This was the reason why he left Cleveland in the first place.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
The weird thing was,Boutte & Douglas both had great training camps to the point that BB held them out of the preseason games. What happened to this kid between then and now?
I just checked the Pats stats and he hasn't played since week 1 and all I can remember from that game was 1(or 2) nice grabs near the sidelines but he didn't get his foot down in time. He's been a ghost ever since.
Sidenote: why aren't they getting TE Pharoah Brown more involved? The guy seems to make one big play a game and has caught every ball thrown his way this season (7 receptions w/ 24.3ypr)
Imo,he'll never be Gronk but give him some more targets to see how he does.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I agree you definitely need more than one guy for success now with how the players keep making super teams, but its definitely the team sport where 1 guy can have the most impact
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I really wouldnt want to either. He can play when he wants to play. It is possible that him and Mac just dont get along which is one of the things that happened at LSU. He was basically the guy his freshman year and then wasnt happy when Daniels came in and they just didnt connect or whatever and than Nambers came in who is a stud and took the role.
Mac and Boutte have played against each other before and Boutte was very good in that game. It definitely seems more like a Bill issue trying to act like a HS coach instead of putting the best option on the field and seeing how it goes. I thought it was going to be a bad fit with his personality and Bill and seems to be even worse than expected where he isnt even playing
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can we all agree the patriots no longer rate a thread of their own?
Shut this all down or rename it the Tom Brady did all of it appreciation thread.
retire Bill the sidecar would also work
This is one of BB's trademarks. If you get on his bad side, for whatever reason, you will not play. even in the super bowl. ask malcom butler.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I have always been a players are more important than coaching staff guy, but my needle is definitely swinging further in that direction after the last 4 years. I always thought it was Tommy, now I am pretty sure it was Tommy.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Reports say that BB has made Josh Uche available in trades. Hopefully someone will be willing to pay up for a pass rusher. Haven't seen any other names being mentioned in deals.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Thats what makes no sense. Why draft a guy that two top coaches in college couldnt change if you arent prepared to put up with him. Its just a wasted pick to take someone you know isnt going to act like a high school player scared of the coach that then will get benched for it
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Bill walks about sniffing his own farts all day. he thinks he can change them , he also thinks those rings were all his doing
The Patriots are back to the losing team they were before Brady. They will never get better as long as Belichick is the coach and draft picker. He’s washed up and should realize it before he embarrasses himself further. Maybe finishing last in the division will convince him.
I agree. it is maddening. I have seen so many times, a player make a fumble then out the rest of the game. I always felt it was worse to make a player play scared of making a mistake.
His hubris likely cost us a super bowl with the benching of Malcom Butler. We couldnt stop anything in that SB. the defense was like a sieve. It is highly doubtful the Patriots give up 41 points if they have their number 1 corner and the rest of the secondary doesnt have to shift assignments after finding out the day of the super bowl.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Making a player scared to make a mistake is without question the worse thing you can do to a player. Many players have been ruined by that at all levels. Instead of trying to make plays they start to try and not mess up which is not what got them to that point of their career in the first place. Its one thing to get upset about a dumb penalty like an egregiously late hit and mistakes like that, but every single player in the history of every sport has made psychical mistakes. Its just part of the game.
Even with something like fumbles, fair enough if a guy has a fumbling problem, but one shouldnt put you on the bench unless the coach is also willing to give up the head set and bench themselves for making a bad decision/play call.
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For the hundredth time I will say it again, if I was a player coming out of college I'd tell my agent I will not play for Belichick
I think I will second that remark!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
we are so bad this thread falls to page 3
They should beat Washington today?
Right?
This seems like one of those weeks where BB has everyone on point and its business as usual. I wouldn't be suprised if this is a win today.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Stevenson hit the aterburners on that run.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
BB added to his Tom Landry “go out with a poof” legacy today. At this rate he pass Shula’s win record in 2050. He needs to retire and stop embarrassing himself.
That was bad, especially since Washington traded away half their D line at the deadline.
Side note Washington deserves to lose every game as long as they have that horrible name.
Rumor mill is really swirling today though. Reports from "sources" that if Bill doesnt have a big turnaround this is likely his last year and they will just eat the contract. Others have Washington interested in him if hes gone and supposedly Vrable would be the preferred replacement by far.
Could all just be reporters trying to throw stuff at the wall and see if it sticks and I wouldnt hold my breath over any of it
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