@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
BB is like Tom Landry in his last season. The game has left him behind.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things. I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
And either way, we just got Jeff Van Gundy...#18 confirmed.
Yessir!
people in case you didn't know weed is legal in mass
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
so we all need to suffer another 5 years
seems easier just to fire bill so he can see a therapist
The Patriots fans got spoiled. I wish it was me bemoaning the demise of a Bills team that dominated for 20 years. You all forgot what it’s like to go through decades of mediocre teams, mediocre drafts and 8-9 records only or get the 15th draft pick. Tom Brady was a once in a generation fix to all the other ills. Congratulations but I wish it was me.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Look, like I've said a lot, after 28-3, it's all gravy...
this is my feeling exactly.
do I want them to win every game? of course. But the way I see it, I watched an entire lifetime of playoff/SB wins in a 19 year period. there are many fans who may never get to see their team win just one. I watched the Pats when they were terrible and I will continue to watch now that they are terrible again.
I am very content to pull up youtube and watch one of the 6 victories. over and over. I fully appreciate how fortunate we were during the Brady run.
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
And either way, we just got Jeff Van Gundy...#18 confirmed.
Yessir!
people in case you didn't know weed is legal in mass
Don't drink or get high and thats funny coming from you. I wasn't going to out you on this but what the hell,😉
You were the guy that said just a few weeks before the Patriots beat the Rams 13-3 in the SB that you were sick and tired of both Brady & Belichick and wanted them both gone.
You, the same game that has bemoaning the loss of Tom Brady since 2020 lol. 🤣😂🤣
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
i think BB is gone after this season. i can't imagine Kraft allowing him to start from scratch at age 71 with a prized prospect from the college ranks. there are some gunslingers coming out who can really play, and the Patriots are going to have a chance to get one of them. if ever there was a time for them to start fresh in multiple respects, it'll be right after week 18.
@galaxy27 said:
i think BB is gone after this season. i can't imagine Kraft allowing him to start from scratch at age 71 with a prized prospect from the college ranks. there are some gunslingers coming out who can really play, and the Patriots are going to have a chance to get one of them. if ever there was a time for them to start fresh in multiple respects, it'll be right after week 18.
I tend to agree with ya at this point. I can envision where sometime after the season, Kraft calls Belichick into his office, and says something to Bill like we've had a great run, the best, but it's time for a change, and could you please resign and make it easy on both of us. Kraft would likely honor the full value of any contract that Belichick has with him.
Belechick seems like the kind of guy who if the pats fired him would just show up for work anyway and pretend it didn’t happen and he would have to be escorted out of team facilities by security guards.
I prefer he keeps coaching, the losses are only chipping away at the winning percentage.
Since 2020 he’s 26-30 in the regular season with Andy Reid at 45-11.
Some serious gains being made
@Darin said:
Belechick seems like the kind of guy who if the pats fired him would just show up for work anyway and pretend it didn’t happen and he would have to be escorted out of team facilities by security guards.
I prefer he keeps coaching, the losses are only chipping away at the winning percentage.
Since 2020 he’s 26-30 in the regular season with Andy Reid at 45-11.
Some serious gains being made
#LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
And either way, we just got Jeff Van Gundy...#18 confirmed.
Yessir!
people in case you didn't know weed is legal in mass
Don't drink or get high and thats funny coming from you. I wasn't going to out you on this but what the hell,😉
You were the guy that said just a few weeks before the Patriots beat the Rams 13-3 in the SB that you were sick and tired of both Brady & Belichick and wanted them both gone.
You, the same game that has bemoaning the loss of Tom Brady since 2020 lol. 🤣😂🤣
i was sick of brady?
must be the legal weed
I simply reject any calls to let bill draft anyone . We dont need any more long snappers
no more grocery buying is what I would have said in September
but he is a dead man walking so its no longer an issue
Kraft would have let him hang on to beat the meaningless shula record but at this rate that would take another decade
the world will end before that anyway so what are we doing
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
the team has wasted more money on bad contracts under bill than 5 years of his present salary , fire him and pay him to sit home and its a wash
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
And either way, we just got Jeff Van Gundy...#18 confirmed.
Yessir!
people in case you didn't know weed is legal in mass
Don't drink or get high and thats funny coming from you. I wasn't going to out you on this but what the hell,😉
You were the guy that said just a few weeks before the Patriots beat the Rams 13-3 in the SB that you were sick and tired of both Brady & Belichick and wanted them both gone.
You, the same game that has bemoaning the loss of Tom Brady since 2020 lol. 🤣😂🤣
i was sick of brady?
must be the legal weed
It sounds like someone was high but it wasn't me. 😉👍
I simply reject any calls to let bill draft anyone . We dont need any more long snappers
no more grocery buying is what I would have said in September
but he is a dead man walking so its no longer an issue
Kraft would have let him hang on to beat the meaningless shula record but at this rate that would take another decade
the world will end before that anyway so what are we doing
I could just see a scenario where Kraft gives Belichick one last chance and Bill moves on from Mac. In that scenario Bill remembers that he needs about 2 good seasons of wins to pass Shula so he'll actually make an effort to add impactful players through the draft/free agency.
All I'm saying is don't be surprised if BB is still standing when the smoke clears.
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
No we're not spoiled at all,we stick with out teams thru thick & thin and we're no different than any other fanbase celebrating when our team wins a champipnship. Saying we're spoiled is just some bitter fanbase's hate towards us like we have any control over any of this. their mad at us because the team we root for delivered numerous times while some team like the Buffalo Bills hasn't,ever.
As for Bill,you couldn't be more off the mark than that comment you made. Very few Pats fns think that Bill can do no wrong. feel free to tune into local STR or literally any comment section on a Pats related content. Belichick has very few fan supporters left and I;m not one of them.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
This is kind of semantics,if Bill steps down or gets fired,it will be in agreement with Kraft and he's likely not going to lose any money. If it came down to Bill being replaced,Kraft would probably pay him the remainder of his contract just for services rendered,(the winning years.)
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
I don't think that Kraft straight out tells Bill,don't spend my money, but BB's way of building a roster has come with minimal spending going back to the beginning so it doesn't really need to be said,at this point its probably expected.
I do agree about there being many players who wouldn't want to play for Belichick, we've heard this from numerous players throughout the years. Also I do think that that mentality has hurt many players over the years as well. Say what you willabout Belichick's coaching style & demeanor towards his players but many of them have ended up being put in positions to succeed, have helped the team win (less so recently) and then got paid in free agency. Just look at jC Jackson in recent years, he went undrafted then led the NFL with the most INTs over a 4yr stretch,then received the highest contract in his free agency class. Not every NFL player can handle playing for a coach like BB but for many that did over the past 20+ years,they had a great chance of team success while also getting paid once they leave.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
At this point I'd just like Mac to be able to get a fresh start with some other team and I hope he gets a chance to prove everyone wrong. He hasn't helped himself with some of his actions/comments over the past year but he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just ended up between our media and the team's HC, not a position you want to be in especially in area.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round. My only worry with hearing how good this class is expected to be,especially that group expected to go in the 1st/2nd rounds is they said the same about that 2021 QB class with Lawrence,Wilson,Lance,Fields & Jones.
Lawrence is really the only one from that group that could be living up to the hype. I know that the play from Wilson & Fields
has improved lately but thats likely a short term thing. Then you have Mac and we know how that has gone,then Lance whose career is currently in limbo right now. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
I'm hoping that we just lose as much as possible and gain the highest picks possible regardless of whether BB is making those picks in 2024. This team needs to fully hit rock bottom and go from there. Whether Belichick will be there in the end remains to be seen but I've just tried making the point that don't be surprised to see him return in 2024.
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round.
I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
i know im butting into this convo, but i wanted to chime in.
there are no guarantees when it comes to players entering the NFL from the college ranks; there never are. the only way there would be is if every team hired a descendant of Nostradamus to be GM. in that case, Tom Brady wouldn't have been passed up half a million times. clearly, no one knew how his game would translate to the NFL. but he's an outlier of the goatiest kind.
i've watched more college football this season than i probably have in the past 15-20 years, thus I've been able to see a lot of QBs in action. believe you me, there is going to be a race to the bottom the second half of the NFL season. not because there's a 100% chance of TB reincarnated awaiting the team with the first pick, but because the probability of selecting a player who can turn things around is higher than most years.
the worst thing that any of these crappy teams can do from here on out is win meaningless games. great, you finished 3-14 as opposed to 1-16. congrats. no one who isn't on drugs cares about that. know what people care about? not being 1-16 or 3-14 ever again and challenging for a Lombardi instead.
if a team wants to bank on locating such a player to turn the tide further down the line in the 1st or, even less likely, in later rounds, that's just not the course of action i would want my team to take. let's get very real for a moment -- would you really trust Belichick to be the type of GM to pull that type of rabbit out of a hat at this juncture?
watch the Patriots play, be completely honest with yourself and ask the rhetorical question, "what exactly has he done post-Brady?" no one expected him to replicate the SB run, but dude there are NO signs of life a handful of years removed. that team is on life support and that's why so many people are clamoring for change. even his past players are saying he has got to go. i heard such words exiting Tedy Bruschi's mouth just a couple of days ago.
i know it sucks severing ties with a coach who helped bring so much success to a franchise, but nothing lasts forever and change will always be imminent at some point. even Stevie Wonder knows that time is now for New England.
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round.
I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
i know im butting into this convo, but i wanted to chime in.
there are no guarantees when it comes to players entering the NFL from the college ranks; there never are. the only way there would be is if every team hired a descendant of Nostradamus to be GM. in that case, Tom Brady wouldn't have been passed up half a million times. clearly, no one knew how his game would translate to the NFL. but he's an outlier of the goatiest kind.
i've watched more college football this season than i probably have in the past 15-20 years, thus I've been able to see a lot of QBs in action. believe you me, there is going to be a race to the bottom the second half of the NFL season. not because there's a 100% chance of TB reincarnated awaiting the team with the first pick, but because the probability of selecting a player who can turn things around is higher than most years.
the worst thing that any of these crappy teams can do from here on out is win meaningless games. great, you finished 3-14 as opposed to 1-16. congrats. no one who isn't on drugs cares about that. know what people care about? not being 1-16 or 3-14 ever again and challenging for a Lombardi instead.
if a team wants to bank on locating such a player to turn the tide further down the line in the 1st or, even less likely, in later rounds, that's just not the course of action i would want my team to take. let's get very real for a moment -- would you really trust Belichick to be the type of GM to pull that type of rabbit out of a hat at this juncture?
watch the Patriots play, be completely honest with yourself and ask the rhetorical question, "what exactly has he done post-Brady?" no one expected him to replicate the SB run, but dude there are NO signs of life a handful of years removed. that team is on life support and that's why so many people are clamoring for change. even his past players are saying he has got to go. i heard such words exiting Tedy Bruschi's mouth just a couple of days ago.
i know it sucks severing ties with a coach who helped bring so much success to a franchise, but nothing lasts forever and change will always be imminent at some point. even Stevie Wonder knows that time is now for New England.
Feel free to jump into the convo whenever you want,when it comes to talk about these soon to be NFL QBs you obviously know more about these college QBs than I do when I admittedly don't watch college footbal at all.
As far as the Belichick GM talk goes,I've made it very clear for years now on my opinion as BB as a GM, I would have replaced him years ago. Don't confuse my previous comments in the past day or two saying that I could see a scenario where BB not only stays but he's also drafting a replacement for Mac.
I say that not as something that I want to see happen,I'm just saying don't underestimate the Bill Belichick-Bob Kraft relationship. Their relationship goes back over 25yrs even before he was given this current job. He's the highest paid HC and you'd need a top secret clearance just to findout how long his current contract is lol.
We look at Belichick's recent years since Brady left and assume his situation is similar to any other head coach when its not. He's got 6 SBs rings over a 20 season stretch that has built up a lot of credit with Bob Kraft. We've all known for years now that once Brady left then the team would take a siginificant step back in the won/loss column and they have.
We all maybe looking at their record without Tom going 7-9, 10-7,8-9 and currently 1-5 as this major failure but for all we know Kraft could be looking at that same 4yr strech as:
1. 7-9 in first year without Brady so throw that out one out. They all saw this one coming.
2. 10-7 with rookie Mac was totally unexpected and likely thought the team was ahead of schedule post Brady.
3. 8-9 in a season with zero experienced offensive coordinators. With everything that went wrong IIRC they were elimanated from playoff contention in week 18.
4. 1-5 and looking to be a horrible season record wise.
All I'm saying is we don't know how Bob Kraft currently feels about Bill Belichick's job security and the media and all of us fans can endlessly go back & forth on this topic ad nauseam but its Kraft making that decision to move on. just don't underestimate their relationship,thats all.
@erikthredd for sure, it's tough. i'm quite certain it's a decision that will keep Kraft up at night. if he's not up already at the spa.
bottom line: when your team starts looking like the Chicago Bears out there, it should give you pause. and right now i can't tell much of a difference between your team and mine.
@galaxy27 said: @erikthredd for sure, it's tough. i'm quite certain it's a decision that will keep Kraft up at night. if he's not up already at the spa.
bottom line: when your team starts looking like the Chicago Bears out there, it should give you pause. and right now i can't tell much of a difference between your team and mine.
Yup. I'm all for that tank & rebuild but like Little Toe said recently, watch them mess around and win a few (to the point BB saves his job. 🤣)
@galaxy27 said: @erikthredd for sure, it's tough. i'm quite certain it's a decision that will keep Kraft up at night. if he's not up already at the spa.
bottom line: when your team starts looking like the Chicago Bears out there, it should give you pause. and right now i can't tell much of a difference between your team and mine.
Yup. I'm all for that tank & rebuild but like Little ToeBig Toe said recently, watch them mess around and win a few (to the point BB saves his job. 🤣)
At least the NBA season starts in about a week. 😉
.........
Let me break this down for you guys.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
Don Shula referred to Belichick as "Beli-cheat" on more than one occasion That is the real reason why, even though it's petty, and hanging around for a record will possibly diminish his reputation, and getting the wins record will mean also getting the losses record, and Andy Reid will probably pass him anyway, Belichick is going to get the HC wins record come hell or high water.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
No we're not spoiled at all,we stick with out teams thru thick & thin and we're no different than any other fanbase celebrating when our team wins a champipnship. Saying we're spoiled is just some bitter fanbase's hate towards us like we have any control over any of this. their mad at us because the team we root for delivered numerous times while some team like the Buffalo Bills hasn't,ever.
As for Bill,you couldn't be more off the mark than that comment you made. Very few Pats fns think that Bill can do no wrong. feel free to tune into local STR or literally any comment section on a Pats related content. Belichick has very few fan supporters left and I;m not one of them.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
This is kind of semantics,if Bill steps down or gets fired,it will be in agreement with Kraft and he's likely not going to lose any money. If it came down to Bill being replaced,Kraft would probably pay him the remainder of his contract just for services rendered,(the winning years.)
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
I don't think that Kraft straight out tells Bill,don't spend my money, but BB's way of building a roster has come with minimal spending going back to the beginning so it doesn't really need to be said,at this point its probably expected.
I do agree about there being many players who wouldn't want to play for Belichick, we've heard this from numerous players throughout the years. Also I do think that that mentality has hurt many players over the years as well. Say what you willabout Belichick's coaching style & demeanor towards his players but many of them have ended up being put in positions to succeed, have helped the team win (less so recently) and then got paid in free agency. Just look at jC Jackson in recent years, he went undrafted then led the NFL with the most INTs over a 4yr stretch,then received the highest contract in his free agency class. Not every NFL player can handle playing for a coach like BB but for many that did over the past 20+ years,they had a great chance of team success while also getting paid once they leave.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
At this point I'd just like Mac to be able to get a fresh start with some other team and I hope he gets a chance to prove everyone wrong. He hasn't helped himself with some of his actions/comments over the past year but he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just ended up between our media and the team's HC, not a position you want to be in especially in area.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round. My only worry with hearing how good this class is expected to be,especially that group expected to go in the 1st/2nd rounds is they said the same about that 2021 QB class with Lawrence,Wilson,Lance,Fields & Jones.
Lawrence is really the only one from that group that could be living up to the hype. I know that the play from Wilson & Fields
has improved lately but thats likely a short term thing. Then you have Mac and we know how that has gone,then Lance whose career is currently in limbo right now. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
I'm hoping that we just lose as much as possible and gain the highest picks possible regardless of whether BB is making those picks in 2024. This team needs to fully hit rock bottom and go from there. Whether Belichick will be there in the end remains to be seen but I've just tried making the point that don't be surprised to see him return in 2024.
Saying a fan base is spoiled isnt a bad thing, in fact every fan base would love to be. The Boston fan base though is without question spoiled. All 4 of the major sports teams have won titles, some multiple, some in the last 10 years, no other fan base can say that. Whatever major sport a Boston fan was a fan of or whatever combo of major sports theyve seen at least one title and multiple if they were a fan of more than one sport. Sticking with a team regardless would be not being a bandwagon fan which is fine if people are and every fan base has them
I would disagree with the notion that Bill spending minimally to build a roster is from Kraft. I think its more likely that it worked for a while even though there have been big weapons during the run like Moss and Gronk that Bill just stated to believe he is just that much smarter than everyone and wasnt spending or being cute with things. Its not unusual for a coach to do that if they win for a long time. He just seems to have taken it to another level of thinking I can just plug in anyone and it will work instead of working around the players strengths like the Texans have done with Stroud.
I can understand players not wanting to play for a coach like that that has more of the old school college style of youre here and do what I say. From college to the NFL the sport has changed a lot the last few years. If you get drafted you dont really have a choice and dont really have many options if you are undrafted. Once you are a free agent you do have a choice though and we have started to see state tax rates impacting some decisions in all of the pro sports. Harper was close to signing with the Giants in baseball if they would bump his salary to cover the extra taxes but they werent willing. If a team is a juggernaut players dont necessarily take the most which gives a team an advantage, but that quickly disappears when they arent anymore. With NIL in college now a lot of the top players are entering the NFL as millionaires already too and wont necessarily respond well to being treated poorly.
I would like to see Mac get a chance somewhere else as well or at least have a nice career as a backup somewhere else. Hes not the best, but hes not this bad either.
As for the draft it will be a very interesting one. Assuming everyone stays healthy there could be anywhere from 4-8 first round QBs. Theres 3 I believe are locks for the first round and up to 8 that are first round talents. There is one I think will fail anywhere they go. The Bears having the two first round picks from the Carolina trade last year will be interesting. They will almost certainly have at least one if not two top 5 picks and maybe even two top 3. If they move on from fields they probably take a QB and an elite WR, if not they probably trade one of the picks to someone that wants a QB. The Broncos also have growing sentiment that they may draft a QB.
Theres a bunch of elite WRs and eventhough he just had the Tua ankle surgery there is one of the best TEs we have seen in a while in this draft. If the Pats can stay in the top 3 to 4 picks they will have some decisions to make. They could go QB and there are some that could have a chance with whats there if they get a WR with the second pick, they could take an elite WR to give Mac help, or take Bowers at TE which would be high for a TE but could easily be the next Gronk or Kelcie.
This is a very good draft coming up for teams that need offense. Obviously some players will fail whether its the team they go too or otherwise.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
No, I don't think so. Belichick needs every win he can get to try and be the winningest head coach.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
I am beginning to think it is more than just a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
I am beginning to think it is more than just a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
I said this the second half of his rookie season and I almost got run off the forum.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
I am beginning to think it is more than just a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
I said this the second half of his rookie season and I almost got run off the forum.
you sir, were correct in your assessment of Mr. Jones abilities. probably the first of us to see it.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUTis it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
I keep saying this but no one wants to take it serious. I've heard what would be the logic behind that? quite a few times, my comeback would what would be the logic behind repeatedly passing on offensive players when you know your offense has been this bad?
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
I am beginning to think it is more than just a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
Many say Bill Callahan blew the Super Bowl for the Raiders because he hated Al Davis.
He changed his entire game plan three days before the game.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
I am beginning to think it is more than jus t a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
I said this the second half of his rookie season and I almost got run off the forum.
Mac was no-where near this bad during his rookie season. McDaniels had him firing on all cylinders until Jones hit the wall late in the season. The guy finished 2nd in OROY voting that season and was a far cry from these past 3 weeks. That kid led the team on a 2 month winning streak,looked like he had actual confidence in himself with a bright future.
Since then Belichick had made decision after decision that made Mac's future look less brighter each time. I'd put this team's failure ratio at around 80% BB/20% Mac.
Throwing to WRs that can't get open.
Using an Oline core that mostly fails in their pass protection,sometimes very badly.
The RBs production has been decent when the OLine decides to show up.
I'm not saying that Mac is blameless over this past year and a half but Belichick has done the least amount possible when it comes to developing Mac Jones as a starting Quarterback.
I was listening to a daily Patriots talk show yesterday and on of the hosts brought up a good point about this situation between Bill & Mac, Belichick has slowly been ruining this guy's career before it ever really started. I hope that they move on from Mac by this offseason for obvious reasons and he gets a chance to start over anywhere else than here.
Its bad enough that he was never going to live up to being the guy that replaced Brady (Cam doesn't count) but add in Bill's lack of offensive updgrades since the 2022 offseason and Mac will be lucky to find a role as a backup somewhere this offseason.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
I am beginning to think it is more than just a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
Many say Bill Callahan blew the Super Bowl for the Raiders because he hated Al Davis.
He changed his entire game plan three days before the game.
was that the one in the early 2000's when Rice was on the team? I know there was some controversy about that one.
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
No we're not spoiled at all,we stick with out teams thru thick & thin and we're no different than any other fanbase celebrating when our team wins a champipnship. Saying we're spoiled is just some bitter fanbase's hate towards us like we have any control over any of this. their mad at us because the team we root for delivered numerous times while some team like the Buffalo Bills hasn't,ever.
As for Bill,you couldn't be more off the mark than that comment you made. Very few Pats fns think that Bill can do no wrong. feel free to tune into local STR or literally any comment section on a Pats related content. Belichick has very few fan supporters left and I;m not one of them.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
This is kind of semantics,if Bill steps down or gets fired,it will be in agreement with Kraft and he's likely not going to lose any money. If it came down to Bill being replaced,Kraft would probably pay him the remainder of his contract just for services rendered,(the winning years.)
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
I don't think that Kraft straight out tells Bill,don't spend my money, but BB's way of building a roster has come with minimal spending going back to the beginning so it doesn't really need to be said,at this point its probably expected.
I do agree about there being many players who wouldn't want to play for Belichick, we've heard this from numerous players throughout the years. Also I do think that that mentality has hurt many players over the years as well. Say what you willabout Belichick's coaching style & demeanor towards his players but many of them have ended up being put in positions to succeed, have helped the team win (less so recently) and then got paid in free agency. Just look at jC Jackson in recent years, he went undrafted then led the NFL with the most INTs over a 4yr stretch,then received the highest contract in his free agency class. Not every NFL player can handle playing for a coach like BB but for many that did over the past 20+ years,they had a great chance of team success while also getting paid once they leave.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
At this point I'd just like Mac to be able to get a fresh start with some other team and I hope he gets a chance to prove everyone wrong. He hasn't helped himself with some of his actions/comments over the past year but he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just ended up between our media and the team's HC, not a position you want to be in especially in area.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round. My only worry with hearing how good this class is expected to be,especially that group expected to go in the 1st/2nd rounds is they said the same about that 2021 QB class with Lawrence,Wilson,Lance,Fields & Jones.
Lawrence is really the only one from that group that could be living up to the hype. I know that the play from Wilson & Fields
has improved lately but thats likely a short term thing. Then you have Mac and we know how that has gone,then Lance whose career is currently in limbo right now. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
I'm hoping that we just lose as much as possible and gain the highest picks possible regardless of whether BB is making those picks in 2024. This team needs to fully hit rock bottom and go from there. Whether Belichick will be there in the end remains to be seen but I've just tried making the point that don't be surprised to see him return in 2024.
Saying a fan base is spoiled isnt a bad thing, in fact every fan base would love to be. The Boston fan base though is without question spoiled. All 4 of the major sports teams have won titles, some multiple, some in the last 10 years, no other fan base can say that. Whatever major sport a Boston fan was a fan of or whatever combo of major sports theyve seen at least one title and multiple if they were a fan of more than one sport. Sticking with a team regardless would be not being a bandwagon fan which is fine if people are and every fan base has them
I would disagree with the notion that Bill spending minimally to build a roster is from Kraft. I think its more likely that it worked for a while even though there have been big weapons during the run like Moss and Gronk that Bill just stated to believe he is just that much smarter than everyone and wasnt spending or being cute with things. Its not unusual for a coach to do that if they win for a long time. He just seems to have taken it to another level of thinking I can just plug in anyone and it will work instead of working around the players strengths like the Texans have done with Stroud.
I can understand players not wanting to play for a coach like that that has more of the old school college style of youre here and do what I say. From college to the NFL the sport has changed a lot the last few years. If you get drafted you dont really have a choice and dont really have many options if you are undrafted. Once you are a free agent you do have a choice though and we have started to see state tax rates impacting some decisions in all of the pro sports. Harper was close to signing with the Giants in baseball if they would bump his salary to cover the extra taxes but they werent willing. If a team is a juggernaut players dont necessarily take the most which gives a team an advantage, but that quickly disappears when they arent anymore. With NIL in college now a lot of the top players are entering the NFL as millionaires already too and wont necessarily respond well to being treated poorly.
I would like to see Mac get a chance somewhere else as well or at least have a nice career as a backup somewhere else. Hes not the best, but hes not this bad either.
As for the draft it will be a very interesting one. Assuming everyone stays healthy there could be anywhere from 4-8 first round QBs. Theres 3 I believe are locks for the first round and up to 8 that are first round talents. There is one I think will fail anywhere they go. The Bears having the two first round picks from the Carolina trade last year will be interesting. They will almost certainly have at least one if not two top 5 picks and maybe even two top 3. If they move on from fields they probably take a QB and an elite WR, if not they probably trade one of the picks to someone that wants a QB. The Broncos also have growing sentiment that they may draft a QB.
Theres a bunch of elite WRs and eventhough he just had the Tua ankle surgery there is one of the best TEs we have seen in a while in this draft. If the Pats can stay in the top 3 to 4 picks they will have some decisions to make. They could go QB and there are some that could have a chance with whats there if they get a WR with the second pick, they could take an elite WR to give Mac help, or take Bowers at TE which would be high for a TE but could easily be the next Gronk or Kelcie.
This is a very good draft coming up for teams that need offense. Obviously some players will fail whether its the team they go too or otherwise.
Obviously it depends on where their picks lands but I'd be ok with not going QB with that 1st pick as long as they have one that is gettable with their second rounder even if it means moving up a few spots. I'm hoping to see a QB,WR & LT within their top 3 picksas long as the QB goes with one of the their top 2 picks. While I'd love to see a TE that could give them Gronk like production I think those other three positions of need are to great to pass on.
Ultimately best case scenario IMO ,other than landing the 1st overall pick, would be to see NE land the 2nd or 3rd pick and have one of the teams in that 3-7 range wanting to trade up for a certain QB. It would give the Pats (hopefully) new GM enough high picks to rebuild their offense in a hurry. Take the best fit at QB with that other top 7ish pick then start building up an offense around him.
if there is a new GM coming in he won't have too many decisions about their defense other than adding depth and should they extend Uche & Dugger. Where they're expected to have around 100M in cap space they could easily re-sign those two and have major space leftover.
As a fan of the team building phase through the draft/free agency its going to be intersting to see how it all plays out. The only real question is will it involve Belichick or not and only time will tell with that.
There's been alot of talk lately about the trade deadline and which players should the Pats make available. After thinking about it I'd make everyone available other than theses players.
Defense: Gonzalez,Dugger,Uche,Barmore,White are keepers and Ja'whaun Bentley and Marcus/Jack Jones are all maybes. As far as Judon goes i'd listen to offers but his injury hurts his value even though he does have one more year on his contract.
Offense: Stevenson,Onwenu,Douglas & Boutte. Everyone else can go.
Special Teams: Matt Slater, just to see how much bronco will rant about him. 😎
Seriously though,other than roughly 10-13 players I'm all for moving off literally anyone else. The team is likely going to be crap again next year but if they start their rebuild with this trade deadline, at least by this time next season there will be some hope when looking at their immediate future.
One of the local STR nitwits actually had a decent suggestion as far as a Belichik replacement in Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh's current starting QB JJ McCarthy is also expected to go somewhere in the first,maybe early second.
I think if Kraft went that route he'd still have to find a new GM too.
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
..
A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
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I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
No we're not spoiled at all,we stick with out teams thru thick & thin and we're no different than any other fanbase celebrating when our team wins a champipnship. Saying we're spoiled is just some bitter fanbase's hate towards us like we have any control over any of this. their mad at us because the team we root for delivered numerous times while some team like the Buffalo Bills hasn't,ever.
As for Bill,you couldn't be more off the mark than that comment you made. Very few Pats fns think that Bill can do no wrong. feel free to tune into local STR or literally any comment section on a Pats related content. Belichick has very few fan supporters left and I;m not one of them.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
This is kind of semantics,if Bill steps down or gets fired,it will be in agreement with Kraft and he's likely not going to lose any money. If it came down to Bill being replaced,Kraft would probably pay him the remainder of his contract just for services rendered,(the winning years.)
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
I don't think that Kraft straight out tells Bill,don't spend my money, but BB's way of building a roster has come with minimal spending going back to the beginning so it doesn't really need to be said,at this point its probably expected.
I do agree about there being many players who wouldn't want to play for Belichick, we've heard this from numerous players throughout the years. Also I do think that that mentality has hurt many players over the years as well. Say what you willabout Belichick's coaching style & demeanor towards his players but many of them have ended up being put in positions to succeed, have helped the team win (less so recently) and then got paid in free agency. Just look at jC Jackson in recent years, he went undrafted then led the NFL with the most INTs over a 4yr stretch,then received the highest contract in his free agency class. Not every NFL player can handle playing for a coach like BB but for many that did over the past 20+ years,they had a great chance of team success while also getting paid once they leave.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
At this point I'd just like Mac to be able to get a fresh start with some other team and I hope he gets a chance to prove everyone wrong. He hasn't helped himself with some of his actions/comments over the past year but he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just ended up between our media and the team's HC, not a position you want to be in especially in area.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round. My only worry with hearing how good this class is expected to be,especially that group expected to go in the 1st/2nd rounds is they said the same about that 2021 QB class with Lawrence,Wilson,Lance,Fields & Jones.
Lawrence is really the only one from that group that could be living up to the hype. I know that the play from Wilson & Fields
has improved lately but thats likely a short term thing. Then you have Mac and we know how that has gone,then Lance whose career is currently in limbo right now. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
I'm hoping that we just lose as much as possible and gain the highest picks possible regardless of whether BB is making those picks in 2024. This team needs to fully hit rock bottom and go from there. Whether Belichick will be there in the end remains to be seen but I've just tried making the point that don't be surprised to see him return in 2024.
Saying a fan base is spoiled isnt a bad thing, in fact every fan base would love to be. The Boston fan base though is without question spoiled. All 4 of the major sports teams have won titles, some multiple, some in the last 10 years, no other fan base can say that. Whatever major sport a Boston fan was a fan of or whatever combo of major sports theyve seen at least one title and multiple if they were a fan of more than one sport. Sticking with a team regardless would be not being a bandwagon fan which is fine if people are and every fan base has them
I would disagree with the notion that Bill spending minimally to build a roster is from Kraft. I think its more likely that it worked for a while even though there have been big weapons during the run like Moss and Gronk that Bill just stated to believe he is just that much smarter than everyone and wasnt spending or being cute with things. Its not unusual for a coach to do that if they win for a long time. He just seems to have taken it to another level of thinking I can just plug in anyone and it will work instead of working around the players strengths like the Texans have done with Stroud.
I can understand players not wanting to play for a coach like that that has more of the old school college style of youre here and do what I say. From college to the NFL the sport has changed a lot the last few years. If you get drafted you dont really have a choice and dont really have many options if you are undrafted. Once you are a free agent you do have a choice though and we have started to see state tax rates impacting some decisions in all of the pro sports. Harper was close to signing with the Giants in baseball if they would bump his salary to cover the extra taxes but they werent willing. If a team is a juggernaut players dont necessarily take the most which gives a team an advantage, but that quickly disappears when they arent anymore. With NIL in college now a lot of the top players are entering the NFL as millionaires already too and wont necessarily respond well to being treated poorly.
I would like to see Mac get a chance somewhere else as well or at least have a nice career as a backup somewhere else. Hes not the best, but hes not this bad either.
As for the draft it will be a very interesting one. Assuming everyone stays healthy there could be anywhere from 4-8 first round QBs. Theres 3 I believe are locks for the first round and up to 8 that are first round talents. There is one I think will fail anywhere they go. The Bears having the two first round picks from the Carolina trade last year will be interesting. They will almost certainly have at least one if not two top 5 picks and maybe even two top 3. If they move on from fields they probably take a QB and an elite WR, if not they probably trade one of the picks to someone that wants a QB. The Broncos also have growing sentiment that they may draft a QB.
Theres a bunch of elite WRs and eventhough he just had the Tua ankle surgery there is one of the best TEs we have seen in a while in this draft. If the Pats can stay in the top 3 to 4 picks they will have some decisions to make. They could go QB and there are some that could have a chance with whats there if they get a WR with the second pick, they could take an elite WR to give Mac help, or take Bowers at TE which would be high for a TE but could easily be the next Gronk or Kelcie.
This is a very good draft coming up for teams that need offense. Obviously some players will fail whether its the team they go too or otherwise.
Obviously it depends on where their picks lands but I'd be ok with not going QB with that 1st pick as long as they have one that is gettable with their second rounder even if it means moving up a few spots. I'm hoping to see a QB,WR & LT within their top 3 picksas long as the QB goes with one of the their top 2 picks. While I'd love to see a TE that could give them Gronk like production I think those other three positions of need are to great to pass on.
Ultimately best case scenario IMO ,other than landing the 1st overall pick, would be to see NE land the 2nd or 3rd pick and have one of the teams in that 3-7 range wanting to trade up for a certain QB. It would give the Pats (hopefully) new GM enough high picks to rebuild their offense in a hurry. Take the best fit at QB with that other top 7ish pick then start building up an offense around him.
if there is a new GM coming in he won't have too many decisions about their defense other than adding depth and should they extend Uche & Dugger. Where they're expected to have around 100M in cap space they could easily re-sign those two and have major space leftover.
As a fan of the team building phase through the draft/free agency its going to be intersting to see how it all plays out. The only real question is will it involve Belichick or not and only time will tell with that.
This will certainly be a very interesting draft. They need enough that if they have that 3rd or 4th pick trading down is probably the smartest move. This is one of those rare drafts where you could basically fill up the first round with QBs and WRs if you really wanted to which obviously wont happen. I think its more likely to be able to get a steal at WR at the top of the second than it would be a QB, but only so many teams need a QB and only so many are willing to use a first round pick on one if its not only of the elite ones.
Theres 3-4 tackles that could be first rounders so depending who a team likes best and knowing that at least two if not 3 QBs should be drafted in the top 5 there is some wiggle room for a team to move down if they wanted and still get one.
With the Bears having the 1 and 2 pick currently as long as that holds its really pretty hard to figure out what the best course would be. The Bears basically control the draft with their ability to impact it either by who they take or trading down on 1 or both of the picks for more picks knowing that two guys arent going to make them a playoff team
@thisistheshow said:
we most likely lose next 2. that'll be 1-7.
Good, more losses the better lol. Right now we're in line for a top 4 pick, at 1-7 we're creeping into that top 3. 😉👍
At that point, I still think we will mess around and win a few 👎👎
Thats ok, 3-14 was good enoiugh for the #1 pick in recent years so a few more wins should land us around picks 2-4.
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A top 5 pick, at a minimum, would do wonders for off season talk.
Give BB the chance to draft top 5 in every round while moving on from Mac and he'll likely turn this team around pretty quick.
As long as Mac Jones is around i expect BB to do the bare minimum to put pieces around him.
Not if he drafts anything like he did last year This is a roster that he has drafted. Hes making the decisions
What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail?
Between Kraft making the pic,not Belichick, to take Mac at 15 in the 2021 draft and then Mac stirring up drama behind the scenes last year, Bill's ego won't allow him to go out of his way to develop Mac Jones or put pieces around him that could help him succeed. That has been clear as day to people following this team since Mac got drafted.
it's Bill's logic, Bill's ego and it would be that same ego that would eventually rid his hands of Mac Jones and then use every resource possible to rebuild this team asap. I have no doubt that Belichick will improve in his draft selections once he's not trying to placate the powner and a QB who obviously isn't that good.
You can ask What would be the logic to continue to set up a QB to fail? and my reply would be what was the logic behind BB not drafting a starting caliber OLineman in the 1st round when a Left Tackle was clearly needed?
in all of the years that Brady was here except for maybe that last season here, belichick went out of hi way spending high draft picks on putting pieces around Tom.
2001: Matt Light 2nd round
2002 Daniel Graham 1st/ Deion branch 2nd
2003 Bethel Johnson 2nd
2004 Ben Watson 1st
2005 Logan Mankins 1st
2006 Laurence Maroney 1st/ Chad Jackson 2nd
2007 no picks that really helped but he did go get WRS Randy Moss,Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth
2009 Sebastain Vollmer
2010 Gronk 2nd
2011 Nate Solder 1st/Shane Vereen 2nd
by then BB had his nucleus to put around Brady with plenty of good Olinemen being coached by Dante Scarnecchia and his main passing targets in Edelman & Gronk.
Just look at BB's offensive draft picks in the past 3 drafts. In Mac's 2nd season BB kind of tried even though many b!tched about the names taken but after all of the drama from Bill's failed OC experiment and Mac's reaction to that by going outside of the organization,Bill Belichick was PO'd. His starting QB needed a starting Left Tackle and #1 WR and he got neither.
🤷♂️Its Belichick's ego and if he's still around by draft time and Mac isn't,I fully expect Bill's draft decisions will be made with the intent to actually improve the team.
I disagree a bit about Mac since Kraft didnt force him to keep Brady and wanted them to work out their issues.
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
I do agree that ego could lead Belichick to doing such things I just dont think theres a logic to it in terms of a coach doing that. Mac clearly needed help and just got none in the last draft.
Wouldnt you say though that if a coaches ego is dictating a draft maybe its time for someone else to take over and hire a GM or move on to some one new?
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things.
You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
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I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
No we're not spoiled at all,we stick with out teams thru thick & thin and we're no different than any other fanbase celebrating when our team wins a champipnship. Saying we're spoiled is just some bitter fanbase's hate towards us like we have any control over any of this. their mad at us because the team we root for delivered numerous times while some team like the Buffalo Bills hasn't,ever.
As for Bill,you couldn't be more off the mark than that comment you made. Very few Pats fns think that Bill can do no wrong. feel free to tune into local STR or literally any comment section on a Pats related content. Belichick has very few fan supporters left and I;m not one of them.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
This is kind of semantics,if Bill steps down or gets fired,it will be in agreement with Kraft and he's likely not going to lose any money. If it came down to Bill being replaced,Kraft would probably pay him the remainder of his contract just for services rendered,(the winning years.)
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
I don't think that Kraft straight out tells Bill,don't spend my money, but BB's way of building a roster has come with minimal spending going back to the beginning so it doesn't really need to be said,at this point its probably expected.
I do agree about there being many players who wouldn't want to play for Belichick, we've heard this from numerous players throughout the years. Also I do think that that mentality has hurt many players over the years as well. Say what you willabout Belichick's coaching style & demeanor towards his players but many of them have ended up being put in positions to succeed, have helped the team win (less so recently) and then got paid in free agency. Just look at jC Jackson in recent years, he went undrafted then led the NFL with the most INTs over a 4yr stretch,then received the highest contract in his free agency class. Not every NFL player can handle playing for a coach like BB but for many that did over the past 20+ years,they had a great chance of team success while also getting paid once they leave.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
At this point I'd just like Mac to be able to get a fresh start with some other team and I hope he gets a chance to prove everyone wrong. He hasn't helped himself with some of his actions/comments over the past year but he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just ended up between our media and the team's HC, not a position you want to be in especially in area.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round. My only worry with hearing how good this class is expected to be,especially that group expected to go in the 1st/2nd rounds is they said the same about that 2021 QB class with Lawrence,Wilson,Lance,Fields & Jones.
Lawrence is really the only one from that group that could be living up to the hype. I know that the play from Wilson & Fields
has improved lately but thats likely a short term thing. Then you have Mac and we know how that has gone,then Lance whose career is currently in limbo right now. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
I'm hoping that we just lose as much as possible and gain the highest picks possible regardless of whether BB is making those picks in 2024. This team needs to fully hit rock bottom and go from there. Whether Belichick will be there in the end remains to be seen but I've just tried making the point that don't be surprised to see him return in 2024.
Saying a fan base is spoiled isnt a bad thing, in fact every fan base would love to be. The Boston fan base though is without question spoiled. All 4 of the major sports teams have won titles, some multiple, some in the last 10 years, no other fan base can say that. Whatever major sport a Boston fan was a fan of or whatever combo of major sports theyve seen at least one title and multiple if they were a fan of more than one sport. Sticking with a team regardless would be not being a bandwagon fan which is fine if people are and every fan base has them
I would disagree with the notion that Bill spending minimally to build a roster is from Kraft. I think its more likely that it worked for a while even though there have been big weapons during the run like Moss and Gronk that Bill just stated to believe he is just that much smarter than everyone and wasnt spending or being cute with things. Its not unusual for a coach to do that if they win for a long time. He just seems to have taken it to another level of thinking I can just plug in anyone and it will work instead of working around the players strengths like the Texans have done with Stroud.
I can understand players not wanting to play for a coach like that that has more of the old school college style of youre here and do what I say. From college to the NFL the sport has changed a lot the last few years. If you get drafted you dont really have a choice and dont really have many options if you are undrafted. Once you are a free agent you do have a choice though and we have started to see state tax rates impacting some decisions in all of the pro sports. Harper was close to signing with the Giants in baseball if they would bump his salary to cover the extra taxes but they werent willing. If a team is a juggernaut players dont necessarily take the most which gives a team an advantage, but that quickly disappears when they arent anymore. With NIL in college now a lot of the top players are entering the NFL as millionaires already too and wont necessarily respond well to being treated poorly.
I would like to see Mac get a chance somewhere else as well or at least have a nice career as a backup somewhere else. Hes not the best, but hes not this bad either.
As for the draft it will be a very interesting one. Assuming everyone stays healthy there could be anywhere from 4-8 first round QBs. Theres 3 I believe are locks for the first round and up to 8 that are first round talents. There is one I think will fail anywhere they go. The Bears having the two first round picks from the Carolina trade last year will be interesting. They will almost certainly have at least one if not two top 5 picks and maybe even two top 3. If they move on from fields they probably take a QB and an elite WR, if not they probably trade one of the picks to someone that wants a QB. The Broncos also have growing sentiment that they may draft a QB.
Theres a bunch of elite WRs and eventhough he just had the Tua ankle surgery there is one of the best TEs we have seen in a while in this draft. If the Pats can stay in the top 3 to 4 picks they will have some decisions to make. They could go QB and there are some that could have a chance with whats there if they get a WR with the second pick, they could take an elite WR to give Mac help, or take Bowers at TE which would be high for a TE but could easily be the next Gronk or Kelcie.
This is a very good draft coming up for teams that need offense. Obviously some players will fail whether its the team they go too or otherwise.
Obviously it depends on where their picks lands but I'd be ok with not going QB with that 1st pick as long as they have one that is gettable with their second rounder even if it means moving up a few spots. I'm hoping to see a QB,WR & LT within their top 3 picksas long as the QB goes with one of the their top 2 picks. While I'd love to see a TE that could give them Gronk like production I think those other three positions of need are to great to pass on.
Ultimately best case scenario IMO ,other than landing the 1st overall pick, would be to see NE land the 2nd or 3rd pick and have one of the teams in that 3-7 range wanting to trade up for a certain QB. It would give the Pats (hopefully) new GM enough high picks to rebuild their offense in a hurry. Take the best fit at QB with that other top 7ish pick then start building up an offense around him.
if there is a new GM coming in he won't have too many decisions about their defense other than adding depth and should they extend Uche & Dugger. Where they're expected to have around 100M in cap space they could easily re-sign those two and have major space leftover.
As a fan of the team building phase through the draft/free agency its going to be intersting to see how it all plays out. The only real question is will it involve Belichick or not and only time will tell with that.
This will certainly be a very interesting draft. They need enough that if they have that 3rd or 4th pick trading down is probably the smartest move. This is one of those rare drafts where you could basically fill up the first round with QBs and WRs if you really wanted to which obviously wont happen. I think its more likely to be able to get a steal at WR at the top of the second than it would be a QB, but only so many teams need a QB and only so many are willing to use a first round pick on one if its not only of the elite ones.
Theres 3-4 tackles that could be first rounders so depending who a team likes best and knowing that at least two if not 3 QBs should be drafted in the top 5 there is some wiggle room for a team to move down if they wanted and still get one.
With the Bears having the 1 and 2 pick currently as long as that holds its really pretty hard to figure out what the best course would be. The Bears basically control the draft with their ability to impact it either by who they take or trading down on 1 or both of the picks for more picks knowing that two guys arent going to make them a playoff team
Assuming NE just win roughly 2-3 more games this season, this really could be a franchise altering offseason for this team. Between likely finishing with a top 5 pick,the expected 90-100+M in salary cap space while also factoring in the type of draft pick returns they could possibly get at the trade deadline leaves them with lots of options.
I'd literally do all of these trades with the exception of Onwenu,just so they could start rebuilding their Oline with at least one decent building block. I honestly think sending Mac to McDaniels & the Raiders would be the best move forward for his career. https://archive.ph/QWzZH
It really all comes down to Belichick & Kraft. BB is going to keep trying to win games no matter who is on the field and he'd be reluctant to probably move off some of those soon to be FAs. Hopefully Kraft decides a fresh start is needed.
Comments
By the end Brady just wanted out and I think it would have been too late for Kraft to change anyone's mind. You gotta remember it got real ugly over those last 2-3 years,even though they won a SB against the Rams, with all of the Alex Guerrero hoopla. it might not have been big news elsewhere but it definitely was here. There were even Pats fans,including one here lol,who straight out just wanted both BB & Brady gone.
If your reference about Mac & Kraft has to do with that being Kraft's,not Bill's, draft choice,that is well known around here. It came out just a day or two after that draft. There was also reference to the time they traded Jimmy G and also that Mac pick being Kraft's choice as the only two times that Kraft publicly put his foot down in the team's roster decisions.
That last part has been a huge topic up here in recent weeks,if & when will Kraft fire Belichick. many have pointed out that Bill is the perfect fall guy for Kraft and Bob rarely takes any heat for this team's failures.
We'll see how it all ends,be it this summer or one in the near future. Count me in the group that thinks Belichick's job security is less on the chopping block than many think.
Eric
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BB is like Tom Landry in his last season. The game has left him behind.
It very likely could have been to late for Kraft to do anything, but he also didnt really step in and try and do anything either. Brady and Belichick had their issues for sure, but Kraft has generally been a hands off owner letting Bill have basically full control.
I dont think Kraft needs any sort of fall guy given that he was a good owner wanting to win and generally stayed out of things. I dont think Bill will get fired during the season but some sort of mutual parting of ways in the offseason is certainly on the table. I wouldnt be surprised either if someone else was in charge of the draft next year.
I would be surprised though if Bill wasnt fired next year if they do the same thing again. Whether Bill has drafted on ego or just doesnt realize what his teams needs in a draft anymore both are things that can and should get coaches fired regardless of past success. Itd be one thing if there was a bad GM, but hes had that role for years and the blame for the roster has to be on him
people in case you didn't know weed is legal in mass
so we all need to suffer another 5 years
seems easier just to fire bill so he can see a therapist
It really is.
The Seahawks win helps as well
The Patriots fans got spoiled. I wish it was me bemoaning the demise of a Bills team that dominated for 20 years. You all forgot what it’s like to go through decades of mediocre teams, mediocre drafts and 8-9 records only or get the 15th draft pick. Tom Brady was a once in a generation fix to all the other ills. Congratulations but I wish it was me.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
this is my feeling exactly.
do I want them to win every game? of course. But the way I see it, I watched an entire lifetime of playoff/SB wins in a 19 year period. there are many fans who may never get to see their team win just one. I watched the Pats when they were terrible and I will continue to watch now that they are terrible again.
I am very content to pull up youtube and watch one of the 6 victories. over and over. I fully appreciate how fortunate we were during the Brady run.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I am not comfortable with BB the Gm. actually, I havent been comfortable with him as GM for a very long time.
instead of DK Metcalf, we ended up with N'Keal Henry. ugh. just one example.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Don't drink or get high and thats funny coming from you. I wasn't going to out you on this but what the hell,😉
You were the guy that said just a few weeks before the Patriots beat the Rams 13-3 in the SB that you were sick and tired of both Brady & Belichick and wanted them both gone.
You, the same game that has bemoaning the loss of Tom Brady since 2020 lol. 🤣😂🤣
Eric
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You haven't spent much time listening to the NE/Boston sports media,they're like vultures up here lol. Kraft's name has rarely ever come up,good or bad (other than the time he tried getting a Happy Ending during a police sting) He always had Brady & Belichick ahead of him.
Once Tom left and this team has failed to win, its been open season on Belichick and more recently Kraft. The guy did just spend a quarterof a billion dollars just so his team's fans could watch replay on the largest outdoor TV screen yet the team has been nickel & diming free agents for years, including their own. Trust me when I say there's plenty of finger pointing that should be going his way yet its BB that bears the brunt of it.
>
I agree,If he does get fired it likely is during the offseason but I think he'd step down instead of having Kraft fire him. Again, its Bill ego we're talking about here and he's built up alot of good will with Kraft over the years.
Thats the million dollar question up here in NE over the past few weeks. what would it take for Kraft to fire Belichick? I mean it really can't get much worse than this other than they could be 0-6 instead of 1-5. We'll have to wait and see how it goes this offseason.
My worst nightmare would be seeing BB step down as HC (with Mayo taking over) but staying on as GM. Actually it could get worse if Belichick gave the HC'ing job to his son while he stayed on as GM lol. Either way,like I said in a previous comment,I'm not to sure that Kraft has reached that point that he wants a fresh start with BB gone so we'll see.
Coaching/GM withstanding,the team will be in a decent spot to start a rebuild. They should ultimately land somewhere in the 1-6 range in the draft,they have a ton of cap space and really just three free agents worth re-signing longterm in Dugger,Onwenu & Uche (although he did just leave yesterday's game with a foot injury.)
Whatever happens I do think its time to move on from Mac Jones. Move the kid for whatever and let him get a fresh start on a team where he's not pitted between the NE media and a HC on an ego trip. Josh McDaniels got a decent season out of Mac and he maybe a taker for him.
Eric
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mistakes-historic-patriots-futility-and-a-smashed-tablet-bill-belichick-is-coaching-his-anti-masterpiece-041701766.html
Mistakes, historic Patriots futility and a smashed tablet: Bill Belichick is coaching his anti-masterpiece
i think BB is gone after this season. i can't imagine Kraft allowing him to start from scratch at age 71 with a prized prospect from the college ranks. there are some gunslingers coming out who can really play, and the Patriots are going to have a chance to get one of them. if ever there was a time for them to start fresh in multiple respects, it'll be right after week 18.
I tend to agree with ya at this point. I can envision where sometime after the season, Kraft calls Belichick into his office, and says something to Bill like we've had a great run, the best, but it's time for a change, and could you please resign and make it easy on both of us. Kraft would likely honor the full value of any contract that Belichick has with him.
I think Belichick will oblige. We shall see.
Belechick seems like the kind of guy who if the pats fired him would just show up for work anyway and pretend it didn’t happen and he would have to be escorted out of team facilities by security guards.
I prefer he keeps coaching, the losses are only chipping away at the winning percentage.
Since 2020 he’s 26-30 in the regular season with Andy Reid at 45-11.
Some serious gains being made
Or you could use Deebo Samuel or AJ Brown 🤷
Sports medias job is to be vultures for ratings. The Kraft massage parlor though will never not be funny. A multi billionaire that could get basically any women with ease from his wealth getting caught at a sketchy strip mall massage parlor makes me laugh everytime I think about it.
Boston is an especially bad place to struggle with how spoiled the fan base is. Most fans would love one championship for any team, but Boston has had multiple for all 4 teams in the last 20 years. Boston schools have even had numerous college hockey titles in the last 10 years. Its gone from will there be a parade, to how many parades do we have this year and its starting to come back to earth a bit. That will make it easy to get people fired up especially when theres still many that think Bill can do no wrong, but some more losing will change that soon.
Bill definitely has an ego but without a side deal if hes fired they still owe him money. If he retires or quits without some sort of side deal he lets them off the hook for his contract. I do agree he has a huge ego, and I dont think it will allow him to realize hes best as a DC at this point, but walking away from that contract would be crazy. I fully expect him to force them to fire him or agree to pay him anyways if he leaves.
Whenever they do move on from he has to go from every role. If they somehow let him stay as the GM they just deserve to lose at that point. Knowing how franchises work and the fact the NFL owners dont pay players since they get paid out of the 48% of league revenue they get I have a very hard time believing the Kraft somehow handcuffed Bills decisions. I could believe maybe there was a player that was said no to, but its hard to believe that Bill wasnt making the decisions whether it came to drafting or free agents. I also think theres just a lot of players that dont want to play for him without being significantly overpaid to do so.
They should move on from Mac for sure. Its clear with the lack of weapons, shaky line, and everyone just hating him that he wont be successful there. Let him go somewhere and give him a chance to find a better situation. I do however hope that if the Pats are like this next year and they did move on that Bill will have an incredibly short leash. Not even for the sake of the team, but I just hate seeing all these teams ruin young QBs with bad situations.
This upcoming draft is loaded with QBs including a lot of mobile ones that can work with inferior lines if they have to like Daniels, and Maye who can run at will and are good at it. Caleb Williams isnt as fast but mobile as well. One of those three should be there. Ewers while deserving of a high pick is basically Mac Jones where he can move a bit but is more of a pocket passer. If they draft him Bill should be fired on the spot.
If they finish in the 1-6 range for picks one of the top ones should be there for them and hopefully the draft is tailored around giving that guy a chance to be successful. Bears will be a bit of a wild card in the draft. The Bears currently have the 1st and 2nd over all pick and Carolina has no weapons to think they will get any better and move down. One of those could get traded for someone looking for a QB as well
Really good points of discussion in this thread.
Very good stuff fellas 🍻
i was sick of brady?
must be the legal weed
I simply reject any calls to let bill draft anyone . We dont need any more long snappers
no more grocery buying is what I would have said in September
but he is a dead man walking so its no longer an issue
Kraft would have let him hang on to beat the meaningless shula record but at this rate that would take another decade
the world will end before that anyway so what are we doing
the team has wasted more money on bad contracts under bill than 5 years of his present salary , fire him and pay him to sit home and its a wash
-> @bronco2078 said:
It sounds like someone was high but it wasn't me. 😉👍
I could just see a scenario where Kraft gives Belichick one last chance and Bill moves on from Mac. In that scenario Bill remembers that he needs about 2 good seasons of wins to pass Shula so he'll actually make an effort to add impactful players through the draft/free agency.
All I'm saying is don't be surprised if BB is still standing when the smoke clears.
Eric
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No we're not spoiled at all,we stick with out teams thru thick & thin and we're no different than any other fanbase celebrating when our team wins a champipnship. Saying we're spoiled is just some bitter fanbase's hate towards us like we have any control over any of this. their mad at us because the team we root for delivered numerous times while some team like the Buffalo Bills hasn't,ever.
As for Bill,you couldn't be more off the mark than that comment you made. Very few Pats fns think that Bill can do no wrong. feel free to tune into local STR or literally any comment section on a Pats related content. Belichick has very few fan supporters left and I;m not one of them.
This is kind of semantics,if Bill steps down or gets fired,it will be in agreement with Kraft and he's likely not going to lose any money. If it came down to Bill being replaced,Kraft would probably pay him the remainder of his contract just for services rendered,(the winning years.)
I don't think that Kraft straight out tells Bill,don't spend my money, but BB's way of building a roster has come with minimal spending going back to the beginning so it doesn't really need to be said,at this point its probably expected.
I do agree about there being many players who wouldn't want to play for Belichick, we've heard this from numerous players throughout the years. Also I do think that that mentality has hurt many players over the years as well. Say what you willabout Belichick's coaching style & demeanor towards his players but many of them have ended up being put in positions to succeed, have helped the team win (less so recently) and then got paid in free agency. Just look at jC Jackson in recent years, he went undrafted then led the NFL with the most INTs over a 4yr stretch,then received the highest contract in his free agency class. Not every NFL player can handle playing for a coach like BB but for many that did over the past 20+ years,they had a great chance of team success while also getting paid once they leave.
At this point I'd just like Mac to be able to get a fresh start with some other team and I hope he gets a chance to prove everyone wrong. He hasn't helped himself with some of his actions/comments over the past year but he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just ended up between our media and the team's HC, not a position you want to be in especially in area.
Last time that you mentioned the stacked QB class I did a little research into how good this group is and read that there's an expected 6 QBs that are likely to go in the 1st round then 2 more that could go high 2nd round. My only worry with hearing how good this class is expected to be,especially that group expected to go in the 1st/2nd rounds is they said the same about that 2021 QB class with Lawrence,Wilson,Lance,Fields & Jones.
Lawrence is really the only one from that group that could be living up to the hype. I know that the play from Wilson & Fields
has improved lately but thats likely a short term thing. Then you have Mac and we know how that has gone,then Lance whose career is currently in limbo right now. I'm just saying that there's no guarantee with any of these QBs going into this next draft.
I'm hoping that we just lose as much as possible and gain the highest picks possible regardless of whether BB is making those picks in 2024. This team needs to fully hit rock bottom and go from there. Whether Belichick will be there in the end remains to be seen but I've just tried making the point that don't be surprised to see him return in 2024.
Eric
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i've been consistent on bill all along and i was off a year with Tom
I have no regrets
Thanks for reminding me how annoying all the TB12 garbage was though
turned out the masturbating was happening at a strip mall though not at foxboro
i know im butting into this convo, but i wanted to chime in.
there are no guarantees when it comes to players entering the NFL from the college ranks; there never are. the only way there would be is if every team hired a descendant of Nostradamus to be GM. in that case, Tom Brady wouldn't have been passed up half a million times. clearly, no one knew how his game would translate to the NFL. but he's an outlier of the goatiest kind.
i've watched more college football this season than i probably have in the past 15-20 years, thus I've been able to see a lot of QBs in action. believe you me, there is going to be a race to the bottom the second half of the NFL season. not because there's a 100% chance of TB reincarnated awaiting the team with the first pick, but because the probability of selecting a player who can turn things around is higher than most years.
the worst thing that any of these crappy teams can do from here on out is win meaningless games. great, you finished 3-14 as opposed to 1-16. congrats. no one who isn't on drugs cares about that. know what people care about? not being 1-16 or 3-14 ever again and challenging for a Lombardi instead.
if a team wants to bank on locating such a player to turn the tide further down the line in the 1st or, even less likely, in later rounds, that's just not the course of action i would want my team to take. let's get very real for a moment -- would you really trust Belichick to be the type of GM to pull that type of rabbit out of a hat at this juncture?
watch the Patriots play, be completely honest with yourself and ask the rhetorical question, "what exactly has he done post-Brady?" no one expected him to replicate the SB run, but dude there are NO signs of life a handful of years removed. that team is on life support and that's why so many people are clamoring for change. even his past players are saying he has got to go. i heard such words exiting Tedy Bruschi's mouth just a couple of days ago.
i know it sucks severing ties with a coach who helped bring so much success to a franchise, but nothing lasts forever and change will always be imminent at some point. even Stevie Wonder knows that time is now for New England.
Feel free to jump into the convo whenever you want,when it comes to talk about these soon to be NFL QBs you obviously know more about these college QBs than I do when I admittedly don't watch college footbal at all.
As far as the Belichick GM talk goes,I've made it very clear for years now on my opinion as BB as a GM, I would have replaced him years ago. Don't confuse my previous comments in the past day or two saying that I could see a scenario where BB not only stays but he's also drafting a replacement for Mac.
I say that not as something that I want to see happen,I'm just saying don't underestimate the Bill Belichick-Bob Kraft relationship. Their relationship goes back over 25yrs even before he was given this current job. He's the highest paid HC and you'd need a top secret clearance just to findout how long his current contract is lol.
We look at Belichick's recent years since Brady left and assume his situation is similar to any other head coach when its not. He's got 6 SBs rings over a 20 season stretch that has built up a lot of credit with Bob Kraft. We've all known for years now that once Brady left then the team would take a siginificant step back in the won/loss column and they have.
We all maybe looking at their record without Tom going 7-9, 10-7,8-9 and currently 1-5 as this major failure but for all we know Kraft could be looking at that same 4yr strech as:
1. 7-9 in first year without Brady so throw that out one out. They all saw this one coming.
2. 10-7 with rookie Mac was totally unexpected and likely thought the team was ahead of schedule post Brady.
3. 8-9 in a season with zero experienced offensive coordinators. With everything that went wrong IIRC they were elimanated from playoff contention in week 18.
4. 1-5 and looking to be a horrible season record wise.
All I'm saying is we don't know how Bob Kraft currently feels about Bill Belichick's job security and the media and all of us fans can endlessly go back & forth on this topic ad nauseam but its Kraft making that decision to move on. just don't underestimate their relationship,thats all.
Eric
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@erikthredd for sure, it's tough. i'm quite certain it's a decision that will keep Kraft up at night. if he's not up already at the spa.
bottom line: when your team starts looking like the Chicago Bears out there, it should give you pause. and right now i can't tell much of a difference between your team and mine.
Yup. I'm all for that tank & rebuild but like Little Toe said recently, watch them mess around and win a few (to the point BB saves his job. 🤣)
At least the NBA season starts in about a week. 😉
Eric
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.........
Let me break this down for you guys.
Belichick is not getting fired or stepping down (unless he writes it on a napkin) at any point this season or upcoming off-season.
Don Shula referred to Belichick as "Beli-cheat" on more than one occasion That is the real reason why, even though it's petty, and hanging around for a record will possibly diminish his reputation, and getting the wins record will mean also getting the losses record, and Andy Reid will probably pass him anyway, Belichick is going to get the HC wins record come hell or high water.
are you ok with that?
.....
I am, but there are caveats which could set off my sports anger.
Everyone and their cousin knows that Belichick shuns Mac. If we go into another season with Mac as our QB and Belichick a our coach, I will not be happy. I want to see Belichick step up and put his support behind a QB that he likes and picks this off-season. I want to give Belichick one more chance in that way.
Saying a fan base is spoiled isnt a bad thing, in fact every fan base would love to be. The Boston fan base though is without question spoiled. All 4 of the major sports teams have won titles, some multiple, some in the last 10 years, no other fan base can say that. Whatever major sport a Boston fan was a fan of or whatever combo of major sports theyve seen at least one title and multiple if they were a fan of more than one sport. Sticking with a team regardless would be not being a bandwagon fan which is fine if people are and every fan base has them
I would disagree with the notion that Bill spending minimally to build a roster is from Kraft. I think its more likely that it worked for a while even though there have been big weapons during the run like Moss and Gronk that Bill just stated to believe he is just that much smarter than everyone and wasnt spending or being cute with things. Its not unusual for a coach to do that if they win for a long time. He just seems to have taken it to another level of thinking I can just plug in anyone and it will work instead of working around the players strengths like the Texans have done with Stroud.
I can understand players not wanting to play for a coach like that that has more of the old school college style of youre here and do what I say. From college to the NFL the sport has changed a lot the last few years. If you get drafted you dont really have a choice and dont really have many options if you are undrafted. Once you are a free agent you do have a choice though and we have started to see state tax rates impacting some decisions in all of the pro sports. Harper was close to signing with the Giants in baseball if they would bump his salary to cover the extra taxes but they werent willing. If a team is a juggernaut players dont necessarily take the most which gives a team an advantage, but that quickly disappears when they arent anymore. With NIL in college now a lot of the top players are entering the NFL as millionaires already too and wont necessarily respond well to being treated poorly.
I would like to see Mac get a chance somewhere else as well or at least have a nice career as a backup somewhere else. Hes not the best, but hes not this bad either.
As for the draft it will be a very interesting one. Assuming everyone stays healthy there could be anywhere from 4-8 first round QBs. Theres 3 I believe are locks for the first round and up to 8 that are first round talents. There is one I think will fail anywhere they go. The Bears having the two first round picks from the Carolina trade last year will be interesting. They will almost certainly have at least one if not two top 5 picks and maybe even two top 3. If they move on from fields they probably take a QB and an elite WR, if not they probably trade one of the picks to someone that wants a QB. The Broncos also have growing sentiment that they may draft a QB.
Theres a bunch of elite WRs and eventhough he just had the Tua ankle surgery there is one of the best TEs we have seen in a while in this draft. If the Pats can stay in the top 3 to 4 picks they will have some decisions to make. They could go QB and there are some that could have a chance with whats there if they get a WR with the second pick, they could take an elite WR to give Mac help, or take Bowers at TE which would be high for a TE but could easily be the next Gronk or Kelcie.
This is a very good draft coming up for teams that need offense. Obviously some players will fail whether its the team they go too or otherwise.
I might get run out of this thread on a rail by you guys for saying this BUT is it possible that Belichick has been setting Mac up for failure?
Brady's last season it was kind of evident to me that the relationship was coming to an end and Bill sorta didn't do Brady any favors and he was gone next season to Tampa
No, I don't think so. Belichick needs every win he can get to try and be the winningest head coach.
ive been wondering if this is the patriots tanking or just bill being passive/aggressive
He obviously hates Mac jones but last week for some reason he doesnt have a backup QB ?
Malik can't do anything but trick plays so if mac really stunk what were we going to do exactly?
discarded brian hoyer looked better than jones
the raiders are doing better with former pats that bill didnt want than we are with the garbage he did want
what a fraud this clown is he will never catch shula
I am beginning to think it is more than just a possibility. The vitriol seems to be real from BB towards Mac. I still dont think he is anything more than Brian Hoyer 2.0 basically a career clipboard holder.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I said this the second half of his rookie season and I almost got run off the forum.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
you sir, were correct in your assessment of Mr. Jones abilities. probably the first of us to see it.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Bill went from beinga guy > @perkdog said:
I keep saying this but no one wants to take it serious. I've heard what would be the logic behind that? quite a few times, my comeback would what would be the logic behind repeatedly passing on offensive players when you know your offense has been this bad?
Eric
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Many say Bill Callahan blew the Super Bowl for the Raiders because he hated Al Davis.
He changed his entire game plan three days before the game.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Mac was no-where near this bad during his rookie season. McDaniels had him firing on all cylinders until Jones hit the wall late in the season. The guy finished 2nd in OROY voting that season and was a far cry from these past 3 weeks. That kid led the team on a 2 month winning streak,looked like he had actual confidence in himself with a bright future.
Since then Belichick had made decision after decision that made Mac's future look less brighter each time. I'd put this team's failure ratio at around 80% BB/20% Mac.
Throwing to WRs that can't get open.
Using an Oline core that mostly fails in their pass protection,sometimes very badly.
The RBs production has been decent when the OLine decides to show up.
I'm not saying that Mac is blameless over this past year and a half but Belichick has done the least amount possible when it comes to developing Mac Jones as a starting Quarterback.
I was listening to a daily Patriots talk show yesterday and on of the hosts brought up a good point about this situation between Bill & Mac, Belichick has slowly been ruining this guy's career before it ever really started. I hope that they move on from Mac by this offseason for obvious reasons and he gets a chance to start over anywhere else than here.
Its bad enough that he was never going to live up to being the guy that replaced Brady (Cam doesn't count) but add in Bill's lack of offensive updgrades since the 2022 offseason and Mac will be lucky to find a role as a backup somewhere this offseason.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
was that the one in the early 2000's when Rice was on the team? I know there was some controversy about that one.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
As the late great Oakland Raiders owner use to say...
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Obviously it depends on where their picks lands but I'd be ok with not going QB with that 1st pick as long as they have one that is gettable with their second rounder even if it means moving up a few spots. I'm hoping to see a QB,WR & LT within their top 3 picksas long as the QB goes with one of the their top 2 picks. While I'd love to see a TE that could give them Gronk like production I think those other three positions of need are to great to pass on.
Ultimately best case scenario IMO ,other than landing the 1st overall pick, would be to see NE land the 2nd or 3rd pick and have one of the teams in that 3-7 range wanting to trade up for a certain QB. It would give the Pats (hopefully) new GM enough high picks to rebuild their offense in a hurry. Take the best fit at QB with that other top 7ish pick then start building up an offense around him.
if there is a new GM coming in he won't have too many decisions about their defense other than adding depth and should they extend Uche & Dugger. Where they're expected to have around 100M in cap space they could easily re-sign those two and have major space leftover.
As a fan of the team building phase through the draft/free agency its going to be intersting to see how it all plays out. The only real question is will it involve Belichick or not and only time will tell with that.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
There's been alot of talk lately about the trade deadline and which players should the Pats make available. After thinking about it I'd make everyone available other than theses players.
Defense: Gonzalez,Dugger,Uche,Barmore,White are keepers and Ja'whaun Bentley and Marcus/Jack Jones are all maybes. As far as Judon goes i'd listen to offers but his injury hurts his value even though he does have one more year on his contract.
Offense: Stevenson,Onwenu,Douglas & Boutte. Everyone else can go.
Special Teams: Matt Slater, just to see how much bronco will rant about him. 😎
Seriously though,other than roughly 10-13 players I'm all for moving off literally anyone else. The team is likely going to be crap again next year but if they start their rebuild with this trade deadline, at least by this time next season there will be some hope when looking at their immediate future.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
One of the local STR nitwits actually had a decent suggestion as far as a Belichik replacement in Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh's current starting QB JJ McCarthy is also expected to go somewhere in the first,maybe early second.
I think if Kraft went that route he'd still have to find a new GM too.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
This will certainly be a very interesting draft. They need enough that if they have that 3rd or 4th pick trading down is probably the smartest move. This is one of those rare drafts where you could basically fill up the first round with QBs and WRs if you really wanted to which obviously wont happen. I think its more likely to be able to get a steal at WR at the top of the second than it would be a QB, but only so many teams need a QB and only so many are willing to use a first round pick on one if its not only of the elite ones.
Theres 3-4 tackles that could be first rounders so depending who a team likes best and knowing that at least two if not 3 QBs should be drafted in the top 5 there is some wiggle room for a team to move down if they wanted and still get one.
With the Bears having the 1 and 2 pick currently as long as that holds its really pretty hard to figure out what the best course would be. The Bears basically control the draft with their ability to impact it either by who they take or trading down on 1 or both of the picks for more picks knowing that two guys arent going to make them a playoff team
Assuming NE just win roughly 2-3 more games this season, this really could be a franchise altering offseason for this team. Between likely finishing with a top 5 pick,the expected 90-100+M in salary cap space while also factoring in the type of draft pick returns they could possibly get at the trade deadline leaves them with lots of options.
I'd literally do all of these trades with the exception of Onwenu,just so they could start rebuilding their Oline with at least one decent building block. I honestly think sending Mac to McDaniels & the Raiders would be the best move forward for his career.
https://archive.ph/QWzZH
It really all comes down to Belichick & Kraft. BB is going to keep trying to win games no matter who is on the field and he'd be reluctant to probably move off some of those soon to be FAs. Hopefully Kraft decides a fresh start is needed.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Bill has to go , he can not be allowed to draft ever again