New England Patriots 2023 Discussion Thread

erikthredd

With the NFL 2023 free agency having kicked off this week here are some recent reported moves:
Additions:
WR JuJu Smith-Schuster
TE Mike Gesicki
RB James Robinson
OT Riley Reiff
OL Calvin Anderson
LB Chris Board

Returning:
CB Jonathan Jones
S Jabril Peppers
LB Mack Wilson
ILB Raekwon McMillan
WR/ST Matt SLater
LS Joe Cardona
DT CArl Davis
DT Daniel Ekuale
OL JamesFerentz
OT Conor McDermott

Tendered:
CB Myles Bryant
OT Yody Cajuste

Lost:
WR Jakobi Meyers
S Devin Mccourty
TE Jonnu SMith
QB Brian Hoyer
P Jake Bailey
CB Jalen Mills

Still Unsigned:
RT Marcus Cannon
OT Isaiah Wynn
CB Joejuan Williams
S Cody Davis
WR Nelson Agholor
RB Damien Harris
P Michael Palardy

Patscap currently has their available cap space listed at roughly 17.2M (3/17)
https://mobile.twitter.com/patscap

perkdog

Jonnu Smith definitely underwhelmed.

Any news on Myers?

erikthredd

Just this from Patspulpit: https://www.patspulpit.com/2023/3/12/23636894/nfl-free-agency-tracker-patriots-rumors-news-signings-analysis-2023
March 6: Patriots, WR Jakobi Meyers have not made much progress in contract talks.

Its tough to figure this one out, it could either be BB letting Myers go find what he's worth first or it could Bill just ghosting Meyers on the way out like he's done plenty of times before.
I've read that Meyers is considered one of/the top WR on the market and likely looking at at around 12-14M/yr.

Other Pats news:
Jake Bailey got cut
received 4th & 6th round comp picks from NFL. JC Jackson should have been worth a 3rd not that 4th until he crapped out. 😠

perkdog

Well I hope Myers can be retained, him and Mac looked like they were on the sane page more than anyone else really, the market for free agent WR's is light so even though Myers didn't have big numbers he might be the best guy out there

erikthredd

@perkdog said:
Well I hope Myers can be retained, him and Mac looked like they were on the sane page more than anyone else really, the market for free agent WR's is light so even though Myers didn't have big numbers he might be the best guy out there

Not to mention that he's also been our most reliable WR for a few years now. We've thought our WR core has been pretty bad lately and that was with Meyers, I'd hate to see what this group would look like without him.That is unless Bill decides to go double dip in the draft but even then his history of drafting WR has probably been worst of all positions.

craig44

I wont miss Smith at all. glad they cut him and made some space. it seemed last season that Myers was either injured or not playing at 100%. I would hesitate to offer him 12-14MM

erikthredd

@craig44 said:
I wont miss Smith at all. glad they cut him and made some space. it seemed last season that Myers was either injured or not playing at 100%. I would hesitate to offer him 12-14MM

Jonnu was due to make 10M/12M over the next two seasons so if they moved that money to Meyers it wouldn't really hurt them. That's also roughly what they paid Nelson Agholor over the past two seasons and we see how bad he was here, any half decent WR in free agency won't be cheap if they go to replace Meyers.

erikthredd

One other thought about BoB becoming the OC again, he was also the OC when NE drafted Gronk & Hernandez and the Pats had that two headed monster at TE before we found out Aaron was a literal monster. I'd love to see them draft another elite TE to pair with Hunter Henry.

thisistheshow

I scoffed at the report about trading him for a 7th round pick. That's such a give up. Why not a conditional 6th, or some such nonsense?

erikthredd

I bet Bill was just happy to get him off the books. Freed up 3+M this year and no longer has his high salary on for next year too.

thisistheshow

@erikthredd said:
I bet Bill was just happy to get him off the books. Freed up 3+M this year and no longer has his high salary on for next year too.

I knew you would be along with the voice of objectivity sanity ...😂 I'm just saying that a 7th round pick is almost nothing...I often wonder, when I see such a deal, if more effort could have been made, or perhaps more foresight utilized?

Edited because 🤷

erikthredd

@thisistheshow said:

@erikthredd said:
I bet Bill was just happy to get him off the books. Freed up 3+M this year and no longer has his high salary on for next year too.

I knew you would be along with the voice of objectivity sanity ...😂 I'm just saying that a 7th round pick is almost nothing...I often wonder, when I see such a deal, if more effort could have been made, or perhaps more foresight utilized?

Edited because 🤷

I've been slowly losing some of that sanity watching some of these recent Celtics games lately. Had the #1 seed for months,lost it to Milwaukee and barely staying ahead of Philly at #3. 😠

thisistheshow

I watched last nights game. The whole thing. One of my first complete games all year. I'm right there with you.

It was an entertaining game in that it was competitive throughout (meaning not a blowout) and Houston obviously played above expectations. It was disappointing because of the Boston execution, though Brown cane to play and that was great to see. The lowlight for me was the Boston play in general, but also that Tatum non-dunk...going to the hole hard, uncontested, and ending up blocked by the rim. Lol.

erikthredd

@thisistheshow said:
I watched last nights game. The whole thing. One of my first complete games all year. I'm right there with you.

It was an entertaining game in that it was competitive throughout (meaning not a blowout) and Houston obviously played above expectations. It was disappointing because of the Boston execution, though Brown cane to play and that was great to see. The lowlight for me was the Boston play in general, but also that Tatum non-dunk...going to the hole hard, uncontested, and ending up blocked by the rim. Lol.

forget the dunk,how about just finishing the layup with the game on the line. Just get the win and the rest is just window dressing.

erikthredd

Jakobi Meyers to the Raiders on a 3yr/33M w/21M guaranteed. Our Pats offense will look great with Jimmy,Meyers & McD this fall in Vegas. 🤣

Now we need a #1 and a #2 WR.

perkdog

@erikthredd said:
Jakobi Meyers to the Raiders on a 3yr/33M w/21M guaranteed. Our Pats offense will look great with Jimmy,Meyers & McD this fall in Vegas. 🤣

Now we need a #1 and a #2 WR.

Uhkk so we are fixing to be worse this upcoming season than last year.

Great 🙄

Forget Jones progressing any time soon

erikthredd

@erikthredd said:
Jakobi Meyers to the Raiders on a 3yr/33M w/21M guaranteed. Our Pats offense will look great with Jimmy,Meyers & McD this fall in Vegas. 🤣

>
Add WR Philip Dorsett after LV signs him.

erikthredd

Now don't everyone get their hopes up. I know that Denver has a bunch of WRs available on the trade market but this is probably just Bob Kraft picking up his weekly weed supply. 😎

https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1635727851474526208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1635727851474526208%7Ctwgr%5E77da4c5421da8a99931f2805e9c1ec981ae0bf87%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsbnation.coral.coralproject.net%2Fapi%2Foembed%3Ftype%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fmobile.twitter.com2FSavageSports_2Fstatus2F1635727851474526208siteID%3Dab7a8f8e-184d-40a5-a0ce-bed4ed06d00cframeID%3Dframe-id-6e4ad1f2-52b8-4d5a-a491-445783cda629-5a58c380-c2b1-11ed-b277-d9520a549386

thisistheshow

Did Meyers want to remain a Patriot?

perkdog

@thisistheshow said:
Did Meyers want to remain a Patriot?

I think he wanted to I test the market and Ofcourse Hoodie under valuing his players said go for it

galaxy27

@erikthredd said:

Now don't everyone get their hopes up. I know that Denver has a bunch of WRs available on the trade market but this is probably just Bob Kraft picking up his weekly weed supply. 😎

https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1635727851474526208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1635727851474526208%7Ctwgr%5E77da4c5421da8a99931f2805e9c1ec981ae0bf87%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsbnation.coral.coralproject.net%2Fapi%2Foembed%3Ftype%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fmobile.twitter.com2FSavageSports_2Fstatus2F1635727851474526208siteID%3Dab7a8f8e-184d-40a5-a0ce-bed4ed06d00cframeID%3Dframe-id-6e4ad1f2-52b8-4d5a-a491-445783cda629-5a58c380-c2b1-11ed-b277-d9520a549386

i logged in just to laugh at this

ok logging back out

thisistheshow

@galaxy27 said:

@erikthredd said:

Now don't everyone get their hopes up. I know that Denver has a bunch of WRs available on the trade market but this is probably just Bob Kraft picking up his weekly weed supply. 😎

https://twitter.com/SavageSports_/status/1635727851474526208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1635727851474526208%7Ctwgr%5E77da4c5421da8a99931f2805e9c1ec981ae0bf87%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsbnation.coral.coralproject.net%2Fapi%2Foembed%3Ftype%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fmobile.twitter.com2FSavageSports_2Fstatus2F1635727851474526208siteID%3Dab7a8f8e-184d-40a5-a0ce-bed4ed06d00cframeID%3Dframe-id-6e4ad1f2-52b8-4d5a-a491-445783cda629-5a58c380-c2b1-11ed-b277-d9520a549386

i logged in just to laugh at this

ok logging back out

..
In all seriousness, when you get that itch to log in just to give a guy his LOL, you know that's a good one. Well done @erikthredd 😂

erikthredd

Some minor Pats moves:
signed Broncos OT Calvin Anderson
Re-signed DT Carl Davis and S jabril Peppers
Tendered CB Myles Bryant

perkdog

5-12.

I'm already thinking this 😩

erikthredd

I think its way to early to predict a w/l record before free agency and the draft have actually happened and most likely a third of their final roster hasn't even been signed yet.

Signing BoB as OC will have a much larger impact IMO than losing Jakobi Meyers.

perkdog

@erikthredd said:
I think its way to early to predict a w/l record before free agency and the draft have actually happened and most likely a third of their final roster hasn't even been signed yet.

Signing BoB as OC will have a much larger impact IMO than losing Jakobi Meyers.

Ofcourse it is but in the moment I'm honestly pissed off, hopefully they can prove me wrong.

And look, not so much you but to whoever else might skim through this to laugh at us Pats fans, I'm not being a crybaby about them not fighting for the division at all its just that I want them to at least look like they are trying to put together a solid team.

So they let Meyers who was our best WR to.a team that is paying him 11 million a year? We couldn't do better than that?

I read that Darren Waller was traded for a 3rd round pick? We couldn't have sniffed that out and done better maybe?

IDK I'm just getting frustrated at what seems to be a serious lack of effort to put together a competitive team here

thisistheshow

@perkdog said:

@erikthredd said:
I think its way to early to predict a w/l record before free agency and the draft have actually happened and most likely a third of their final roster hasn't even been signed yet.

Signing BoB as OC will have a much larger impact IMO than losing Jakobi Meyers.

Ofcourse it is but in the moment I'm honestly pissed off, hopefully they can prove me wrong.

And look, not so much you but to whoever else might skim through this to laugh at us Pats fans, I'm not being a crybaby about them not fighting for the division at all its just that I want them to at least look like they are trying to put together a solid team.

So they let Meyers who was our best WR to.a team that is paying him 11 million a year? We couldn't do better than that?

I read that Darren Waller was traded for a 3rd round pick? We couldn't have sniffed that out and done better maybe?

IDK I'm just getting frustrated at what seems to be a serious lack of effort to put together a competitive team here

...
I have a sneaking suspicion that the decline of our franchise is comparable to the death of a lightbulb... planned obsolescence

erikthredd

@perkdog said:

@erikthredd said:
I think its way to early to predict a w/l record before free agency and the draft have actually happened and most likely a third of their final roster hasn't even been signed yet.

Signing BoB as OC will have a much larger impact IMO than losing Jakobi Meyers.

Ofcourse it is but in the moment I'm honestly pissed off, hopefully they can prove me wrong.

And look, not so much you but to whoever else might skim through this to laugh at us Pats fans, I'm not being a crybaby about them not fighting for the division at all its just that I want them to at least look like they are trying to put together a solid team.

Again,its way too early to even say that they aren't. I think re-signing most of our defensive free agents in McMillan,Jones,Peppers,Davis & most likely Myles Bryant while so far only losing Mccourty to retirement has been huge. Our defense was great last season and the only FAs left are Mack Wilson(who I hope to see back,) and DBs Cody Davis & Joejuan Williams,who aren't nothing special.

So they let Meyers who was our best WR to.a team that is paying him 11 million a year? We couldn't do better than that?

Maybe BB just had a cap on what he thought Meyers was worth. Let's be honest here,Meyers was really a #3WR in the role as a #1WR.
His stats as an undrafted WR after four seasons are inspiring but when you consider them in that #1 wideout role over the past three years in reality they aren't all that great.
Again,we're looking at an unfinished product before free agency and the draft have officially begun.

I read that Darren Waller was traded for a 3rd round pick? We couldn't have sniffed that out and done better maybe?

I was joking above with the Pats jet sitting in Denver but thats a good sign that someone from the team is there and the Broncos supposedly have a bunch of WRs for sale. We also just received extra 4th & 6th round comp picks so I'd say there's probably a better chance of Bill trading for a Meyers type-replacement than signing one. FAs cost guaranteed money in signing bonuses.

IDK I'm just getting frustrated at what seems to be a serious lack of effort to put together a competitive team here

IMO,our biggest hole was without a doubt at OC and that alone has been a huge upgrade. BB has already made sure our defense returns most of its continuity with Mccourty's replacement the main issue on that side of the ball.

That leaves us with the 5th most salary cap space at the moment and 11 draft picks to mostly wokr on upgrading the offense. We don't need and really can't afford All-Pro type of talent at the skills position but we have plenty of assets to put together a solid group around Mac.

erikthredd

Perk,you have to remember technically we're only 34 hours into the unofficial free agency period and players can offically start to sign tomorrow at 4PM, Meaning there could be other moves that the team just hasn't made public yet.

thisistheshow

@erikthredd said:

@perkdog said:

@erikthredd said:
I think its way to early to predict a w/l record before free agency and the draft have actually happened and most likely a third of their final roster hasn't even been signed yet.

Signing BoB as OC will have a much larger impact IMO than losing Jakobi Meyers.

Ofcourse it is but in the moment I'm honestly pissed off, hopefully they can prove me wrong.

And look, not so much you but to whoever else might skim through this to laugh at us Pats fans, I'm not being a crybaby about them not fighting for the division at all its just that I want them to at least look like they are trying to put together a solid team.

Again,its way too early to even say that they aren't. I think re-signing most of our defensive free agents in McMillan,Jones,Peppers,Davis & most likely Myles Bryant while so far only losing Mccourty to retirement has been huge. Our defense was great last season and the only FAs left are Mack Wilson(who I hope to see back,) and DBs Cody Davis & Joejuan Williams,who aren't nothing special.

So they let Meyers who was our best WR to.a team that is paying him 11 million a year? We couldn't do better than that?

Maybe BB just had a cap on what he thought Meyers was worth. Let's be honest here,Meyers was really a #3WR in the role as a #1WR.
His stats as an undrafted WR after four seasons are inspiring but when you consider them in that #1 wideout role over the past three years in reality they aren't all that great.
Again,we're looking at an unfinished product before free agency and the draft have officially begun.

I read that Darren Waller was traded for a 3rd round pick? We couldn't have sniffed that out and done better maybe?

I was joking above with the Pats jet sitting in Denver but thats a good sign that someone from the team is there and the Broncos supposedly have a bunch of WRs for sale. We also just received extra 4th & 6th round comp picks so I'd say there's probably a better chance of Bill trading for a Meyers type-replacement than signing one. FAs cost guaranteed money in signing bonuses.

IDK I'm just getting frustrated at what seems to be a serious lack of effort to put together a competitive team here

IMO,our biggest hole was without a doubt at OC and that alone has been a huge upgrade. BB has already made sure our defense returns most of its continuity with Mccourty's replacement the main issue on that side of the ball.

That leaves us with the 5th most salary cap space at the moment and 11 draft picks to mostly wokr on upgrading the offense. We don't need and really can't afford All-Pro type of talent at the skills position but we have plenty of assets to put together a solid group around Mac.

.....
Question Why will @erikthredd henceforth be known as negative two plus three ?

Answer because he is the positive one

erikthredd

These are our remaining free agents.
Nelson Agholor
Myles Bryant
Yodny Cajuste
Joe Cardona
Cody Davis
Damien Harris
Joejuan Williams
Mack Wilson Sr.
Isaiah Wynn

Myles Bryant got tendered so NE has the ability to match any team trying to sign him at his 2.6M.
After that the only players I'd like to see back are Harris,Wilson and maybe Agholor but nowhere near the 22M he got for 2 seasons here.

erikthredd

This is only a guess but after looking at Darren Waller's contract situation, due to make roughly 62M over the next 4yrs,maybe BB didn't want to take on that much salary after having just paid Hunter Henry & Jonnu Smith 101M since 2021 for basically crap production.
Where the offense is currently at this offseason it seems like a perfect time for a BB double dip at both WR & TE in the draft. I hope to at least see some order of LT,WR,TE with their first three picks.

thisistheshow

I understand that Meyers was not necessarily a prototypical x receiver that we needed to hang on to at all costs, but there is a precedent in the NFL where teams make sure that their QBs are taken care of in terms of having their important targets stay on the roster. 🤷 Does anyone understand where I am going with this? I think that the Pats not re-signing Meyers actually reflects on their opinion of Mac, and by that I mean that the Pats don't give a pop-tart about whether or not Mac has any consistency...

thisistheshow

I'm upset (sports upset) by the Meyers thing. It encapsulates a lot.

perkdog

@erikthredd said:
Perk,you have to remember technically we're only 34 hours into the unofficial free agency period and players can offically start to sign tomorrow at 4PM, Meaning there could be other moves that the team just hasn't made public yet.

I know, I'm impatient and wear my emotions on my sleeve as I'm sure you guys have noticed over the years, I will chill out and see what happens

perkdog

Another thing is I'm not really sure many players, especially WR's want anything to do with the new Patriot Way anymore.

thisistheshow

@perkdog said:
Another thing is I'm not really sure many players, especially WR's want anything to do with the new Patriot Way anymore.

The Patriot way went ⬇️ (I'm pointing to Tampa).

erikthredd

Signed vet OT Riley Reiff to a 1yr/5M deal.

erikthredd

Boom!
https://www.patriots.com/news/report-patriots-make-splash-by-signing-free-agent-wr-juju-smith-schuster

signed for 3yrs/33M. His upside is much higher than Jakobi Meyers. NE had 28M in cap space this morning,I wonder how much ofa dent this signing took from it.

erikthredd

Would any of you then still go out and trade for Broncos WR Jerry Jeudy who has history at Alabama with Mac? Reported cost would be our first round pick at 14. I would then I'd still go draft a LT & TE with our next two picks.

perkdog

@erikthredd said:
Would any of you then still go out and trade for Broncos WR Jerry Jeudy who has history at Alabama with Mac? Reported cost would be our first round pick at 14. I would then I'd still go draft a LT & TE with our next two picks.

I'm eating my words, Ju Ju is a definite upgrade over Myers!

And I'm a big fan of Jeudy so yep I'd do the first round pick and go after the Tackle and TE for sure

erikthredd

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1636047689933635615?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Didn't Hopkins and BoB have some history back with the Texans?

erikthredd

@perkdog said:

@erikthredd said:
Would any of you then still go out and trade for Broncos WR Jerry Jeudy who has history at Alabama with Mac? Reported cost would be our first round pick at 14. I would then I'd still go draft a LT & TE with our next two picks.

I'm eating my words, Ju Ju is a definite upgrade over Myers!

And I'm a big fan of Jeudy so yep I'd do the first round pick and go after the Tackle and TE for sure

Unfortunately that's my grand plan not Bill's lol so who knows if they're even thinking along those lines. JuJu's signing just happened so we'll have to wait and see if BB is still interested in adding another WR. I'm guessing it would be either trade or draft at this point.

craig44

I would rather have schuster than meyers. I always felt like Jakoby was a constant injury concern.

perkdog

@erikthredd said:

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1636047689933635615?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Didn't Hopkins and BoB have some history back with the Texans?

Obrien gave Hopkins away due to some disagreement, and set the Texans franchise back pretty good over it.

I don't know the specifics

erikthredd

Signed former Jags/Jets RB James Robinson 2yr/8M deal. This might mean that Damien Harris is gone.
Also there's a report out that NE has also signed Fins TE Mike Gesicki too. Numbers being finalized. Waiting to see if this one is true or not.

perkdog

@erikthredd said:
Signed former Jags/Jets RB James Robinson 2yr/8M deal. This might mean that Damien Harris is gone.
Also there's a report out that NE has also signed Fins TE Mike Gesicki too. Numbers being finalized. Waiting to see if this one is true or not.

I'd prefer Harris over Robinson

Gesicki I like, I think Dalton Schultz is out there, I wouldn't mind them looking at him

thisistheshow

I might be in the minority here, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm in the camp that thinks keeping Meyers would have been better than getting Schuster. I'd say that 80% of my opinion rets solely on the prior connection between Meyers and Jones.

erikthredd

@perkdog said:

@erikthredd said:
Signed former Jags/Jets RB James Robinson 2yr/8M deal. This might mean that Damien Harris is gone.
Also there's a report out that NE has also signed Fins TE Mike Gesicki too. Numbers being finalized. Waiting to see if this one is true or not.

I'd prefer Harris over Robinson

Gesicki I like, I think Dalton Schultz is out there, I wouldn't mind them looking at him

I don't remember much about Robinson other than he was the 4th undrafted RB to gain 1K yards his rookie year,his injury the following year then getting dealt to the Jets last season.
From everything that I've read though he sounds like an entirely different kind of RB than Harris, more like Rex Bukrhead/James White and a much better fit in that 3rd down back role than Harris has shown.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Harris back as well if the money is cheap enough.

I may be wrong on Gesicki. There were reports all over twitter that Gesicki started following Mac & the Pats who did the same and there was some guy on CBS saying it was a done deal,just figuring the money next. But who knows?

erikthredd

@thisistheshow said:
I might be in the minority here, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm in the camp that thinks keeping Meyers would have been better than getting Schuster. I'd say that 80% of my opinion rets solely on the prior connection between Meyers and Jones.

My only issue with Meyers is it seemed like he had maxed out how good he'd be here. He was decent at moving the chains but he's was not a good fit to be our #1 WR. He could be a solid slot WR but not at the level of a Welker/Edelman, imo. I think Juju might fit that role better.

The other thing that sticks out to me about Meyers is he's complaining after the fact that NE went with JuJu yet Meyers is the one that signed elsewhere the day before.
if they were that close and he wanted to stay here then he could have waited a little bit longer to sign. The money would have likely still been there when he's been considered one of the top WRs available in this free agency and plenty of other teams still need one or more.

erikthredd

IDK,i must have got it wrong yesterday. Juju signed a 3yr/25.5M deal not the same 3yr/33M that Meyers signed. That's a big difference because now NE might add another player with that difference. This could end up being JuJu & Robinson instead of Meyers or maybe another WE or TE.

https://twitter.com/patscap/status/1636312128142417923?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1636312128142417923%7Ctwgr%5E7c483d52341647cd403427b03b1bd742be7a10fa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsbnation.coral.coralproject.net%2Fapi%2Foembed%3Ftype%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fmobile.twitter.com2Fpatscap2Fstatus2F1636312128142417923siteID%3Dab7a8f8e-184d-40a5-a0ce-bed4ed06d00cframeID%3Dframe-id-27d5d1c0-c6e1-48d1-88e8-320bd3efdc95-89592230-c3f4-11ed-9f2f-e5fb05015b29