It's pretty telling that Dalvin Cook is still out there, Zeke hasn't shown much to warrant too many teams lined up for his services.
As for the Pats? Eh, I wouldn't be overly thrilled but it wouldn't hurt to have him as a part time back sharing the load, providing they don't pay too much for him.
I still would be surprised to see Zeke play again, only because it seemed like there had been zero interest. 😂 Also, last year it looked like he was in shape and focussed but had lost so much.
I saw a comment on Reddit about him and I am sharing a screenshot. This pretty much sums it up. Lol.
@thisistheshow said:
I still would be surprised to see Zeke play again, only because it seemed like there had been zero interest. 😂 Also, last year it looked like he was in shape and focussed but had lost so much.
I saw a comment on Reddit about him and I am sharing a screenshot. This pretty much sums it up. Lol.
Tell ya what when Zeke was involved in the passing game a few years back he was great, lots of people forget he was more than just a bruising runner and blocker, he caught a lot of balls out of the backfield
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
They will definitely need to add another RB for sure, Dalvin Cook would be awesome but I don't think that is realistic
He won two SB rings while playing a major role in earning the first one.
Plus he earned roughly 11M in salary playing in the NFL.
Not bad for a pretty short NFL career
@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
They will definitely need to add another RB for sure, Darvin Cook would be awesome but I don't think that is realistic
Its really just going to come down to how much of a paycut is Cook willing to take in 2023? He was due to have a 10M base salary before the Vikings released him and he's been sitting in free agency since early June,he's obviously not getting the offers that he'd be happy with.
IIRC the Pats have roughly 14-16M in cap space, I'd offer a 1yr deal somewhere in the 5-6M range with some incentives to maybe go as high as 7-8M. Maybe make it a 2yr deal with the majority of money up front.
I just read that he visited the Jets over the weekend,i don't know their cap situation but I do know that Arod voluntarily reworked his contract and freeing up 35M in cap space over the next few seasons so the Jets may have room to sign Cook. Its bad enough for East teams having to face an elite QB like Rodgers but if Cook gets signed too that would be huge.
@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
They will definitely need to add another RB for sure, Darvin Cook would be awesome but I don't think that is realistic
Its really just going to come down to how much of a paycut is Cook willing to take in 2023? He was due to have a 10M base salary before the Vikings released him and he's been sitting in free agency since early June,he's obviously not getting the offers that he'd be happy with.
IIRC the Pats have roughly 14-16M in cap space, I'd offer a 1yr deal somewhere in the 5-6M range with some incentives to maybe go as high as 7-8M. Maybe make it a 2yr deal with the majority of money up front.
I just read that he visited the Jets over the weekend,i don't know their cap situation but I do know that Arod voluntarily reworked his contract and freeing up 35M in cap space over the next few seasons so the Jets may have room to sign Cook. Its bad enough for East teams having to face an elite QB like Rodgers but if Cook gets signed too that would be huge.
The RB market is not as lucrative for these big name free agents, something will give where they either take what teams are offering or just sit out but I highly doubt they will get what they think they deserve
@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
They will definitely need to add another RB for sure, Darvin Cook would be awesome but I don't think that is realistic
Its really just going to come down to how much of a paycut is Cook willing to take in 2023? He was due to have a 10M base salary before the Vikings released him and he's been sitting in free agency since early June,he's obviously not getting the offers that he'd be happy with.
IIRC the Pats have roughly 14-16M in cap space, I'd offer a 1yr deal somewhere in the 5-6M range with some incentives to maybe go as high as 7-8M. Maybe make it a 2yr deal with the majority of money up front.
I just read that he visited the Jets over the weekend,i don't know their cap situation but I do know that Arod voluntarily reworked his contract and freeing up 35M in cap space over the next few seasons so the Jets may have room to sign Cook. Its bad enough for East teams having to face an elite QB like Rodgers but if Cook gets signed too that would be huge.
The RB market is not as lucrative for these big name free agents, something will give where they either take what teams are offering or just sit out but I highly doubt they will get what they think they deserve
I agree. Usually when players,from all positions,get in a situation like this where they're expecting more money than is being offered, the player usually signs a one year deal for a decent salary. Basically giving the player a chance to build up his value but with Cook its already skewed because the guy is coming off of his 4th straight 1K+ rushing season. He's only 27 too so its not like teams could use the _once a RB reaches 30- thing against him.
I really like the idea of having a two headed monster at RB attack for our offense especially until Mac can gain some comfortability with BoB calling the plays. Between that,already having a small core of just 4 RBs on the roster and actually having the cap space to make a solid offer for him,there's so many reasons why this is actually a good idea to sign Cook. BUT like always,it comes down to Bill and whether or not he decides to open his velcro Patriots wallet or not.
The team has enough cap space to add possibly 2-3 players that could help make an impact this season yet he'll probably hold onto it for some odd reason. I swear the more the media talks about how cheap he can be with his spending, the tighter he gets holding that pursestring lol.
They're expected to have roughly 80M in cap space next offseason and there's already talk that Bill may let some of the better players in Judon,Dugger,Uche & Onwenu walk because he won't want to payout what it will cost to keep them.
@erikthredd said:
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
They will definitely need to add another RB for sure, Darvin Cook would be awesome but I don't think that is realistic
Its really just going to come down to how much of a paycut is Cook willing to take in 2023? He was due to have a 10M base salary before the Vikings released him and he's been sitting in free agency since early June,he's obviously not getting the offers that he'd be happy with.
IIRC the Pats have roughly 14-16M in cap space, I'd offer a 1yr deal somewhere in the 5-6M range with some incentives to maybe go as high as 7-8M. Maybe make it a 2yr deal with the majority of money up front.
I just read that he visited the Jets over the weekend,i don't know their cap situation but I do know that Arod voluntarily reworked his contract and freeing up 35M in cap space over the next few seasons so the Jets may have room to sign Cook. Its bad enough for East teams having to face an elite QB like Rodgers but if Cook gets signed too that would be huge.
The RB market is not as lucrative for these big name free agents, something will give where they either take what teams are offering or just sit out but I highly doubt they will get what they think they deserve
I agree. Usually when players,from all positions,get in a situation like this where they're expecting more money than is being offered, the player usually signs a one year deal for a decent salary. Basically giving the player a chance to build up his value but with Cook its already skewed because the guy is coming off of his 4th straight 1K+ rushing season. He's only 27 too so its not like teams could use the _once a RB reaches 30- thing against him.
I really like the idea of having a two headed monster at RB attack for our offense especially until Mac can gain some comfortability with BoB calling the plays. Between that,already having a small core of just 4 RBs on the roster and actually having the cap space to make a solid offer for him,there's so many reasons why this is actually a good idea to sign Cook. BUT like always,it comes down to Bill and whether or not he decides to open his velcro Patriots wallet or not.
The team has enough cap space to add possibly 2-3 players that could help make an impact this season yet he'll probably hold onto it for some odd reason. I swear the more the media talks about how cheap he can be with his spending, the tighter he gets holding that pursestring lol.
They're expected to have roughly 80M in cap space next offseason and there's already talk that Bill may let some of the better players in Judon,Dugger,Uche & Onwenu walk because he won't want to payout what it will cost to keep them.
If he dismantles whatever talent we have on this team with all.that cap.space I will be furious
I don't know anything about him other than his user name,Thyrick,is almost as good as Erikthredd. 😎
I like Erikthred better lol
Back in the late 90's, Erikthredd was the only variation i could get out of roughly 10 different ways of spelling ErictheRed@aol.com. I haven't used that email in over 20 years but I kept the ID all of this time.
Seeing Belichick add that rookie WR,i can just imagine one of the guys that cover the team asking Bill over the next week or two about not adding a #1 WR and BB's comeback will be he brought in 5 new WRs this offseason even though 4 are rookies.
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
His stats really were basically identical though. Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
67.6 to 65.2 completion percentage isnt significant
223.6 to 214.1 yards a game isnt significant, thats one pass a game
INT rate was 2.5% both years
QBR hated him because it tries to account for other defenses and also the lack of TDs really hurt him there, plus the extra sacks.
He was 17th in passes attempted which is low and 16th in completion percentage.
There was no drop off, he just got less passing attempts. I'm not saying he doesnt deserve another chance this year, he does. Hes not someone I would root against, but if some OC can turn him into a great QB they should be the highest paid on the staff. Even at Alabama where he had 3 first round WRs and a first round RB, Devonta Smith his WR won the Heisman over him because he would basically just throw the ball to him every play.
I just dont see him being anything more than average at best as a starter
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time. The QB doesnt play every position on offense defense and special teams
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so. Id be interested to hear how Trent Dilfer is was key to winning the SB just to name one if apparently win percentage is a QB stat not a team stat
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time.
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time.
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
If you would like to discuss a sport instead of posting inaccuracies about what I actually did say then let me know. I'm interested in intelligent sports discussions not false things being posted about me
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time.
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
If you would like to discuss a sport instead of posting inaccuracies about what I actually did say then let me know. I'm interested in intelligent sports discussions not false things being posted about me
No problem. I'd prefer to have a discussion about Mac's two seasons in NE with someone,you know,who actually did watch his games played and isn't basing their opinion off of some stat page.
I'm also interested in intelligent sports discussions as well, not someone's myopic views towards a certain team's HC/GM & his draft pick history (which were stated in this very thread) or what constitutes the current QB having a down year in his second season compared to his first.
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time.
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
If you would like to discuss a sport instead of posting inaccuracies about what I actually did say then let me know. I'm interested in intelligent sports discussions not false things being posted about me
No problem. I'd prefer to have a discussion about Mac's two seasons in NE with someone,you know,who actually did watch his games played and isn't basing their opinion off of some stat page.
I'm also interested in intelligent sports discussions as well, not someone's myopic views towards a certain team's HC/GM & his draft pick history (which were stated in this very thread) or what constitutes the current QB having a down year in his second season compared to his first.
Why did you misrepresent what I had previously said then?
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time.
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
If you would like to discuss a sport instead of posting inaccuracies about what I actually did say then let me know. I'm interested in intelligent sports discussions not false things being posted about me
No problem. I'd prefer to have a discussion about Mac's two seasons in NE with someone,you know,who actually did watch his games played and isn't basing their opinion off of some stat page.
I'm also interested in intelligent sports discussions as well, not someone's myopic views towards a certain team's HC/GM & his draft pick history (which were stated in this very thread) or what constitutes the current QB having a down year in his second season compared to his first.
Why did you misrepresent what I had previously said then?
Cmon man,I didn't misrepresent anything you said previously. Feel free to go back in this thread to see your exact comments. You came in pretty much crapping all over Belichick's draft picks from this past draft saying that,i don't remember the exact quote but basically telling us the majority of those picks will be bad players because they were drafted higher than expected. Which is pretty much ludicrous without seeing how they fit within the team and you know,actually play. Time would tell on whether this particular draft class can play or not regardless of their draft pick #.
I then went on to show you which players that Belichick drafted through out the years that were considered actual reaches or if they became legit contributors. You basicaly poo-poo'd my argument telling me it pretty much didn't matter who they picked because Tom Brady isn't around anymore to carry the team while adding something about his cuteness. 🤷♂️
After that,your argument was everything was due to Tom Brady's greatness with a couple Bellicheats thrown in for good measure. AT that point I'd had enough and I'm honestly there again.
Look,I can debate about anything and my ego isn't so large where i feel the need to be right all of the time. From my interactions with you and what I've read in other basbeall threads that I don't comment in,you seem to be the opposite of that and frankly from what I've heard,you have a reputation for being a know it all among some of that baseball group here. Debates with you tend to keep going in circles. I tend to leave those fairly quick.
This whole back & forth started because you replied to a comment I made saying Mac's stats were identical,which they weren't but lets leave that aside. Their offense was putrid last season,thats from the TWO OCs down to the 11 players on the field. For those of us that watched every offensive snap of every game,we know what we were watching and if you weren't watching their games weekly,you didn't know. Its that simple. It was night & day from year 1 to year 2.
Year 1 he played better than expected and had a stretch of 7 straight wins, that alone topped his entire win total for year 2. He went from playing confident with a coach who knew how to get the best out of him, to that guy taking a job elsewhere in the offseason and instead of Belichick replacing McD with an actual OC w/experience Bill basically asked for a show of hands asking who wants to be the new OC?
What made it worse he couldn't even boil it down to one guy alone but instead had 2 guys with no experience lol take over that role. It all played out like we all expected and for Mac he went from a pretty good high after season 1 to WTF is going in this locker room in year 2? Which meant a lack of confidence in him from Bill,which led to a lack of confidence in himself,which led to an injury,then coming back to get benched after 1 bad throw.
You said NFL QBs only get 3 seasons max to prove themselves and he pretty much did that in year one,but its like Belichick went out of his way in year 2 to make things so much harder for the kid when none of it was needed. He could have hired a real OC,he could signed or traded for better offensive weapons or improved the Oline. Heck he could have just made the switch to Zappe permanent but instead he was trying to play both sides of the fence and pulled Mac after making his first mistake in his first game back in over a month.
All I was originally trying to say is there's more going on than just the stats and you had to follow the team on a regular basis
to see what I'm talking about. I want to see what the kid is made of and how he comes back from a season like that.
After that injury against Baltimore that sidelined him then watching Zappe have pretty good success right away,to then coming back to start against CHiago only to get benched after throwing a pick, Mac had to be at his absolute lowest point of the season mentally but to his credit he came back and helped lead the team to three straight wins. Then their schedule got tougher around the same time the offensive playcalling from Laurel & Hardy hit rock bottom and here we are.
@erikthredd said:
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time.
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
If you would like to discuss a sport instead of posting inaccuracies about what I actually did say then let me know. I'm interested in intelligent sports discussions not false things being posted about me
No problem. I'd prefer to have a discussion about Mac's two seasons in NE with someone,you know,who actually did watch his games played and isn't basing their opinion off of some stat page.
I'm also interested in intelligent sports discussions as well, not someone's myopic views towards a certain team's HC/GM & his draft pick history (which were stated in this very thread) or what constitutes the current QB having a down year in his second season compared to his first.
Why did you misrepresent what I had previously said then?
Cmon man,I didn't misrepresent anything you said previously. Feel free to go back in this thread to see your exact comments. You came in pretty much crapping all over Belichick's draft picks from this past draft saying that,i don't remember the exact quote but basically telling us the majority of those picks will be bad players because they were drafted higher than expected. Which is pretty much ludicrous without seeing how they fit within the team and you know,actually play. Time would tell on whether this particular draft class can play or not regardless of their draft pick #.
I then went on to show you which players that Belichick drafted through out the years that were considered actual reaches or if they became legit contributors. You basicaly poo-poo'd my argument telling me it pretty much didn't matter who they picked because Tom Brady isn't around anymore to carry the team while adding something about his cuteness. 🤷♂️
After that,your argument was everything was due to Tom Brady's greatness with a couple Bellicheats thrown in for good measure. AT that point I'd had enough and I'm honestly there again.
Look,I can debate about anything and my ego isn't so large where i feel the need to be right all of the time. From my interactions with you and what I've read in other basbeall threads that I don't comment in,you seem to be the opposite of that and frankly from what I've heard,you have a reputation for being a know it all among some of that baseball group here. Debates with you tend to keep going in circles. I tend to leave those fairly quick.
This whole back & forth started because you replied to a comment I made saying Mac's stats were identical,which they weren't but lets leave that aside. Their offense was putrid last season,thats from the TWO OCs down to the 11 players on the field. For those of us that watched every offensive snap of every game,we know what we were watching and if you weren't watching their games weekly,you didn't know. Its that simple. It was night & day from year 1 to year 2.
Year 1 he played better than expected and had a stretch of 7 straight wins, that alone topped his entire win total for year 2. He went from playing confident with a coach who knew how to get the best out of him, to that guy taking a job elsewhere in the offseason and instead of Belichick replacing McD with an actual OC w/experience Bill basically asked for a show of hands asking who wants to be the new OC?
What made it worse he couldn't even boil it down to one guy alone but instead had 2 guys with no experience lol take over that role. It all played out like we all expected and for Mac he went from a pretty good high after season 1 to WTF is going in this locker room in year 2? Which meant a lack of confidence in him from Bill,which led to a lack of confidence in himself,which led to an injury,then coming back to get benched after 1 bad throw.
You said NFL QBs only get 3 seasons max to prove themselves and he pretty much did that in year one,but its like Belichick went out of his way in year 2 to make things so much harder for the kid when none of it was needed. He could have hired a real OC,he could signed or traded for better offensive weapons or improved the Oline. Heck he could have just made the switch to Zappe permanent but instead he was trying to play both sides of the fence and pulled Mac after making his first mistake in his first game back in over a month.
All I was originally trying to say is there's more going on than just the stats and you had to follow the team on a regular basis
to see what I'm talking about. I want to see what the kid is made of and how he comes back from a season like that.
After that injury against Baltimore that sidelined him then watching Zappe have pretty good success right away,to then coming back to start against CHiago only to get benched after throwing a pick, Mac had to be at his absolute lowest point of the season mentally but to his credit he came back and helped lead the team to three straight wins. Then their schedule got tougher around the same time the offensive playcalling from Laurel & Hardy hit rock bottom and here we are.
Theres a major difference between saying Brady was more important than Belicheck and not liking their draft picks than what you had said I said.
And Yes there is truth that when you have the best QB ever you have a margin of error and dont have to concentrate as much on drafting offensive weapons because he will elevate whatever you give him,
Saying I think they made a bunch of bad picks doesnt mean I said that Brady is the only reason anyone on the team is good. I didnt like their draft for a number of reasons none of them had anything to do with Brady. They really didnt do anything to help out Jones who needs help. They took a kicker in the 3rd round that would have probably gone undrated or 6 or 7th round at best for starters. There were a ton of offensive weapons on the board for the first three rounds and they didnt take any of them.
I actually forgot that the preseason was shortened. Is there any concerns in how shortened preseason are handled. But this i mean that it used to be the norm for starters to play weeks 2 and 3, with some variation of course.
I'm not sure but I just watched a Pats podcast show last night that talked about tonight's game compared to the 1st preseason game from a year ago and how Mac didn't play then and probably not tonight either. Zappe & Hoyer played in that previous game and tonight we 'll probably see Zappe & Malik Cunningham.
EDIT: Mike Reiss is reporting that no starters are playing tonight
There were also reports coming out of Foxboro that the offense is adding plays to their playbook specifically for Cunningham too,not stuff that they would run with Mac or Bailey so hopefully we get to see what some of that looks like.
I've been reading that rookie WRs Demario Douglas & Kayshon Boutte have both been playing well in recent weeks and we finally get a chance to see them live.
Also seeing a report that BB brought back DE Trey Flowers on the cheap. I'm cool with adding another situational passrusher to this group who's had success playing in this defense.
@thisistheshow said:
I thought that the intention with Cunningham was to use him like Welker. You're hearing that there will be designed plays for him?
Yes,I should have typed that too. He is going to be used as a WR but the Quick Slants show was reporting that they were running plays with Cunningham lined up at QB too. Stuff that they wouldn't run with Mac or Zappe art QB. I don't know if we actually see them tonight but I hope we get to see a few, at least.
I was only able to turn on the game with about 8 minutes left. Happened to be right when we wee receiving the punt before that long TD drive by Cunningham.
What did I miss? Anything stand out, especially in a bad way.
I went online and I see our fans clamoring for MC to QB2.
I had the game on but the volume down for most of the game and apparently I missed that Cunningham TD. I saw the drive up to that play though and would like to see more of him next week.
There weren't any real standouts outside of individual plays unless you want to count Cunningham.
@erikthredd said:
I had the game on but the volume down for most of the game and apparently I missed that Cunningham TD. I saw the drive up to that play though and would like to see more of him next week.
There weren't any real standouts outside of individual plays unless you want to count Cunningham.
.......
Should we be concerned with the Oline? I know it wasn't starters out there, but still...
@erikthredd said:
I had the game on but the volume down for most of the game and apparently I missed that Cunningham TD. I saw the drive up to that play though and would like to see more of him next week.
There weren't any real standouts outside of individual plays unless you want to count Cunningham.
.......
Should we be concerned with the Oline? I know it wasn't starters out there, but still...
I honestly didn't catch enough of the Oline play to call it one way or the other but without the starters it would be tough to judge their play fairly.
Keion White looked solid just rushing the QB from a 3pt stance,don't know if he got an actual sack but he did come close a few times.
Christain Gonzalez did punch a ball out after his WR caught it but IIRC it bounced out of bounds so the Texans had the ball fro there.
Jalen Mills picked off a Stroud pass on the first drive.
Tyquan Thornton went up for a 2 handed grab that went for 27yds on their 1st drive. I menioned earlier that he's been taking a lot of heat for not making plays in camp,hopefully this jumpstarts his play.
DL/DE Daniel Ekuale had an early sack on Stroud that was a loss of 15yds.
Cunningham on one series went 3/4 passing the ball for 19yds while also rushing f times for 34 yrds including a rushing TD. Surprisingly I didn't see him lineup at WR at all, tonight.
Rookie punter Bryce Baringer punted 4 times for 200yds w/ two inside the 20 and 1 touchback.
I wasn't familiar with many of the players on both sides of the ball and after a game like this,just be happy that there weren't any notable injuries and both units should look better by next week with some if not all of their starters playing.
@Basebal21 said:
You got half your wish. Elliot signed today with the Pats for 1 year 6 mil. Cook signed with the Jets for 1 year 8.6 mil
Hopefully Bill is bringing Zeke in to be their #2 back behind Stevenson. I'd have preferred Cook but beggars can't be choosers here when there were only 4 RBs on their roster before this signing.
That Jets offense is going to look entirely different than we're used to seeing in recent years now that Arod & Cook are behind center.
Just saw this mentioned elsewhere: According to Pro Football Focus, Elliott had a success rate as a pass protector of 97.8 percent in 2022. He gave up two pressures — both of them hurries — on 46 blocking attempts. His effectiveness ranked fourth among the league’s qualifying running backs.
They've been looking for someone to replace not only James White's production as a 3rd down back but also his pass protection as well. Until we see how this current rendition of the OLine holds up, just his pass blocking will be sorely needed.
With this signing the team should still have around 9-11M in cap space plus all of next years picks to possibly sign or trade for another impact player on either side of the ball. Knowing BB though,he'll probably wait it out to see who becomes available when teams make their final cuts.
Comments
It's pretty telling that Dalvin Cook is still out there, Zeke hasn't shown much to warrant too many teams lined up for his services.
As for the Pats? Eh, I wouldn't be overly thrilled but it wouldn't hurt to have him as a part time back sharing the load, providing they don't pay too much for him.
I still would be surprised to see Zeke play again, only because it seemed like there had been zero interest. 😂 Also, last year it looked like he was in shape and focussed but had lost so much.
I saw a comment on Reddit about him and I am sharing a screenshot. This pretty much sums it up. Lol.
Tell ya what when Zeke was involved in the passing game a few years back he was great, lots of people forget he was more than just a bruising runner and blocker, he caught a lot of balls out of the backfield
Its going to be interesting to see who becomes their 3rd down back. After James White retired, JJ Taylor looked like he might get a chance but he only played in one game lasy season.
Stevenson finished with 69 receptions on top of his workload at RB but right now the team only has 4 RBs on their roster (Stevenson/Strong/Harris/Taylor), 5 if you count WR Ty Montgomery, and if Rhamondre gets hurt thats a HUGE hole in their offense.
At this point you could say that BB needs to find another RB just to help balance out that position.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
White will be tough to replace, he was such a great team player
28-3 and White came up pretty big!
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38097363/rams-sony-michel-retires-5-seasons-2-super-bowl-titles
They will definitely need to add another RB for sure, Dalvin Cook would be awesome but I don't think that is realistic
He won two SB rings while playing a major role in earning the first one.
Plus he earned roughly 11M in salary playing in the NFL.
Not bad for a pretty short NFL career
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Its really just going to come down to how much of a paycut is Cook willing to take in 2023? He was due to have a 10M base salary before the Vikings released him and he's been sitting in free agency since early June,he's obviously not getting the offers that he'd be happy with.
IIRC the Pats have roughly 14-16M in cap space, I'd offer a 1yr deal somewhere in the 5-6M range with some incentives to maybe go as high as 7-8M. Maybe make it a 2yr deal with the majority of money up front.
I just read that he visited the Jets over the weekend,i don't know their cap situation but I do know that Arod voluntarily reworked his contract and freeing up 35M in cap space over the next few seasons so the Jets may have room to sign Cook. Its bad enough for East teams having to face an elite QB like Rodgers but if Cook gets signed too that would be huge.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
The RB market is not as lucrative for these big name free agents, something will give where they either take what teams are offering or just sit out but I highly doubt they will get what they think they deserve
I agree. Usually when players,from all positions,get in a situation like this where they're expecting more money than is being offered, the player usually signs a one year deal for a decent salary. Basically giving the player a chance to build up his value but with Cook its already skewed because the guy is coming off of his 4th straight 1K+ rushing season. He's only 27 too so its not like teams could use the _once a RB reaches 30- thing against him.
I really like the idea of having a two headed monster at RB attack for our offense especially until Mac can gain some comfortability with BoB calling the plays. Between that,already having a small core of just 4 RBs on the roster and actually having the cap space to make a solid offer for him,there's so many reasons why this is actually a good idea to sign Cook. BUT like always,it comes down to Bill and whether or not he decides to open his velcro Patriots wallet or not.
The team has enough cap space to add possibly 2-3 players that could help make an impact this season yet he'll probably hold onto it for some odd reason. I swear the more the media talks about how cheap he can be with his spending, the tighter he gets holding that pursestring lol.
They're expected to have roughly 80M in cap space next offseason and there's already talk that Bill may let some of the better players in Judon,Dugger,Uche & Onwenu walk because he won't want to payout what it will cost to keep them.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
If he dismantles whatever talent we have on this team with all.that cap.space I will be furious
I like our RB room, but it isn't exactly deep. But I don't want to pay Cook, at least not anything like what he probably wants.
But at this point it kind of feels like we are stuck. We need to add depth.
Looks like Belichick made his big post free agency splash on offense by claiming WR Thyrick Pitts from the Bears.
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/patriots-claim-wr-thyrick-pitts-off-waivers-bears-jalen-hurd-placed-on-reserve-retired-list-nfl/
I don't know anything about him other than his user name,Thyrick,is almost as good as Erikthredd. 😎
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I like Erikthred better lol
Back in the late 90's, Erikthredd was the only variation i could get out of roughly 10 different ways of spelling ErictheRed@aol.com. I haven't used that email in over 20 years but I kept the ID all of this time.
Seeing Belichick add that rookie WR,i can just imagine one of the guys that cover the team asking Bill over the next week or two about not adding a #1 WR and BB's comeback will be he brought in 5 new WRs this offseason even though 4 are rookies.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
My positivity is returning a bit. More than a bit. Expectations are tempered, but a winning season is back on the menu. 👍👍💪💪🏈
I'm calling it a 6-11 Season
We are going to be playing in arguably the toughest division in the league, I'm not expecting Jones to get much better.
That's my initial opinion, subject to change
i've got us going 11-6 this season but don't ask me to go pick out which games are wins on the schedule because I may have to raise my win total.
Competent playcalling should leave Mac playing like he did in year one and if one of the new WRs plays better than expected their offense could open up even more.
I really do hope that Bill decides to sign one of the better RBs available(hopefully Cook) so this team could hang their hat on ground & pound until Mac shows he's better than how he played in year two.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
His year 1 and year 2 are essentially identical, the only difference is he had like 80 more attempts in year one which would account for yards and TDs being down and he got sacked more. His yards a game, completion percentage, interception percentage, average yards per catch are basically the same in both years.
You obviously didn't watch every game from both seasons. Just reading someone's career stats from their profile page doesn't come close to telling the full story on how Mac played in his two seasons here.
Year 1, the playcalling was significantly better under Josh McDaniels where to start the year they were a little more conservative with Mac throwing the ball but that changed as the their two month winning streak went on and he was allowed much more freedom on offense. During that winning streak Mac was 1st in the NFL in comp% and top 3 in Rating. Admittedly though, by the end of the season you could tell he hit a wall finishing the last month with a 1-3 record and had a turnover in each game.
Year 2,started out alot like the previous year while former DC Matt Patricia & former S/T coach Joe Judge,who both failed miserably as head coaches , tried getting their footing calling the offensive plays but got significantly worse as the season went along. Mac got hurt in game 3,came back for game 7 and was yanked after one quarter. He went on to win the next 3 starts and as they got deeper into the season anyone paying attention could see that Patricia/Judge decision making running the offense was getting stagnant at best. Whether it was just one guy calling the plays or both,they were both out of their league in that position.
Run/Run/Screen with the occasional pass downfield was their go-to on most possessions over that 2nd half of the season. Teams knew that they had zero creativity with their play calling and just needed to overload for the run and watch for anything thrown within 10-12yards.
Where McDaniels called plays to Mac's strengths over his first year,it mostly seemed like Mac needed to play lights out for a majority of year 2 just to make up for Patricia & Judge's shortcomings as dual OC's. Thats not something you want to ask of a 10yr vet at QB let alone someone in just his 2nd season.
So,yeah,reading back his per game/total stat averages from years 1&2 definitely don't tell the full story here.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
You said it yourself though, first year he had a better OC and a better situation yet ended up with basically the same results. I get that was his rookie year, but you really only get 3 years max in the NFL to prove yourself and sometimes not even that long as a QB. Theres a very good chance this is just what he is without elite weapons all over the place around him.
You are right stats dont tell the whole story, but in the end the stats are going to determine the wins and losses and how teams view a player in the NFL. Theres numerous QBs that havent succeeded because of their situation. Theres a very deep QB draft coming this year and I wouldnt be surprised if he was replaced next year. He can have a very nice career as a backup or get a chance somewhere else if they cut him.
They desperately needed a better OC and to get some weapons on offense, but short of magical fairy dust I dont see any OC combination thats going to turn him into a top 15 NFL QB
You previously mentioned that his stats were essentially identical from year 1 to year 2 and that wasn't the case at all.
His winning percentage in year 1 was .588% compared to .428 in year 2.
His Completion percentage went down from 67.6% (11th in NFL) % to 65.2% (18th in NFL)
His QBR went from 56.9 (16th in the NFL) to 36.1 (28th in the NFL)
His Passer Rating went from 92.5 (19th in NFL) to 84.8% (26th in NFL)
Most of his per game averages went down in year 2 as well...YPG, Y/A, TD%,
Look,I'm just saying that the circumstances around him weren't the same from 1 year to year 2 and that second year was so bad from a playcalling/Oline protection/offensive passing targets standpoint i need more time to see if he can be an abiove average starting QB for the Patriots.
When he had an actual experienced NFL OC calling those plays for him he played like a top 15-16 QB in the NFL and outperformed all of those higher rated QBs from his draft class.
When he had Jay and SIlent Bob over here playing as Playcallers it was just adding insult to his injury.
Right now I'm not saying I expect him to be elite or even that he deserves a second contract from the Patriots,I'm just saying that with how everything that could go wrong last season did. I want to see what the kid is made of and can he bounce back from a pretty down year?
I do admit that all of this is probably moot though because with Kraft making the decision to draft Mac, Belichick is probably right now devising 10 different ways to make his job as starting QB a living hell. Rumor has it that Bill locked Ernie Adams in the Foxboro stadium basement and won't let him out until he he finds a foolproof plan to get rid of Mac Jones where he won't take the blame.
Ernie hasn't seen the light of day since Mac got drafted. 😎
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
His stats really were basically identical though. Winning percentage is a team stat not a QB stat.
67.6 to 65.2 completion percentage isnt significant
223.6 to 214.1 yards a game isnt significant, thats one pass a game
INT rate was 2.5% both years
QBR hated him because it tries to account for other defenses and also the lack of TDs really hurt him there, plus the extra sacks.
He was 17th in passes attempted which is low and 16th in completion percentage.
There was no drop off, he just got less passing attempts. I'm not saying he doesnt deserve another chance this year, he does. Hes not someone I would root against, but if some OC can turn him into a great QB they should be the highest paid on the staff. Even at Alabama where he had 3 first round WRs and a first round RB, Devonta Smith his WR won the Heisman over him because he would basically just throw the ball to him every play.
I just dont see him being anything more than average at best as a starter
Winning percentage is a team stat coming from the same guy that tried saying that Brady deserved all of the credit for NE's success since 2000. Thank you for reminding me how pointless it is debating sports with you.
Have a good day! 😉👍
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
At no point did I ever say Brady deserved all the credit. I said that he was more important to the success than Belicheck was. Never have I said that you can put a QB on any team and they can win. He is also a huge outlier being the best QB of all time. The QB doesnt play every position on offense defense and special teams
If you want to use that as an excuse to get out of the fact Mac has had two identical seasons by all means do so. Id be interested to hear how Trent Dilfer is was key to winning the SB just to name one if apparently win percentage is a QB stat not a team stat
Homie,you were full of crap then and full of crap now. You were the same guy that told me to wipe out anything that included Brady,meaning he made every draft pick better,offense or defense, in all of his years in NE.
Some DB makes a great play to win a huge game,thats because of Brady's greatness even though his ass was planted on the bench and wasn't even watching the play. 🤣
You were the same guy that told me that all of these Belichick draft picks in recent years pretty much don't matter because Brady is no longer around. Using that thought process then whats the point of having an NFL draft when just one team will win the SB?
Just an FYI in any future NFL interactions between you & I, I absolutely include winning games,winning percentage and playoff success when factoring what makes a a QB good,great or just straight out sucks. I'll take the W over seeing some guy throw for 300 & 3TDs in a loss.
I'm not saying Mac is that guy or even will come close to being that guy,either way, I'm just looking forward to seeing how he bounces back from a down year. If they finish 6-11 and he plays like crap then I have no problem seeing the team find a better replacement.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
If you would like to discuss a sport instead of posting inaccuracies about what I actually did say then let me know. I'm interested in intelligent sports discussions not false things being posted about me
No problem. I'd prefer to have a discussion about Mac's two seasons in NE with someone,you know,who actually did watch his games played and isn't basing their opinion off of some stat page.
I'm also interested in intelligent sports discussions as well, not someone's myopic views towards a certain team's HC/GM & his draft pick history (which were stated in this very thread) or what constitutes the current QB having a down year in his second season compared to his first.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Why did you misrepresent what I had previously said then?
Cmon man,I didn't misrepresent anything you said previously. Feel free to go back in this thread to see your exact comments. You came in pretty much crapping all over Belichick's draft picks from this past draft saying that,i don't remember the exact quote but basically telling us the majority of those picks will be bad players because they were drafted higher than expected. Which is pretty much ludicrous without seeing how they fit within the team and you know,actually play. Time would tell on whether this particular draft class can play or not regardless of their draft pick #.
I then went on to show you which players that Belichick drafted through out the years that were considered actual reaches or if they became legit contributors. You basicaly poo-poo'd my argument telling me it pretty much didn't matter who they picked because Tom Brady isn't around anymore to carry the team while adding something about his cuteness. 🤷♂️
After that,your argument was everything was due to Tom Brady's greatness with a couple Bellicheats thrown in for good measure. AT that point I'd had enough and I'm honestly there again.
Look,I can debate about anything and my ego isn't so large where i feel the need to be right all of the time. From my interactions with you and what I've read in other basbeall threads that I don't comment in,you seem to be the opposite of that and frankly from what I've heard,you have a reputation for being a know it all among some of that baseball group here. Debates with you tend to keep going in circles. I tend to leave those fairly quick.
This whole back & forth started because you replied to a comment I made saying Mac's stats were identical,which they weren't but lets leave that aside. Their offense was putrid last season,thats from the TWO OCs down to the 11 players on the field. For those of us that watched every offensive snap of every game,we know what we were watching and if you weren't watching their games weekly,you didn't know. Its that simple. It was night & day from year 1 to year 2.
Year 1 he played better than expected and had a stretch of 7 straight wins, that alone topped his entire win total for year 2. He went from playing confident with a coach who knew how to get the best out of him, to that guy taking a job elsewhere in the offseason and instead of Belichick replacing McD with an actual OC w/experience Bill basically asked for a show of hands asking who wants to be the new OC?
What made it worse he couldn't even boil it down to one guy alone but instead had 2 guys with no experience lol take over that role. It all played out like we all expected and for Mac he went from a pretty good high after season 1 to WTF is going in this locker room in year 2? Which meant a lack of confidence in him from Bill,which led to a lack of confidence in himself,which led to an injury,then coming back to get benched after 1 bad throw.
You said NFL QBs only get 3 seasons max to prove themselves and he pretty much did that in year one,but its like Belichick went out of his way in year 2 to make things so much harder for the kid when none of it was needed. He could have hired a real OC,he could signed or traded for better offensive weapons or improved the Oline. Heck he could have just made the switch to Zappe permanent but instead he was trying to play both sides of the fence and pulled Mac after making his first mistake in his first game back in over a month.
All I was originally trying to say is there's more going on than just the stats and you had to follow the team on a regular basis
to see what I'm talking about. I want to see what the kid is made of and how he comes back from a season like that.
After that injury against Baltimore that sidelined him then watching Zappe have pretty good success right away,to then coming back to start against CHiago only to get benched after throwing a pick, Mac had to be at his absolute lowest point of the season mentally but to his credit he came back and helped lead the team to three straight wins. Then their schedule got tougher around the same time the offensive playcalling from Laurel & Hardy hit rock bottom and here we are.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Theres a major difference between saying Brady was more important than Belicheck and not liking their draft picks than what you had said I said.
And Yes there is truth that when you have the best QB ever you have a margin of error and dont have to concentrate as much on drafting offensive weapons because he will elevate whatever you give him,
Saying I think they made a bunch of bad picks doesnt mean I said that Brady is the only reason anyone on the team is good. I didnt like their draft for a number of reasons none of them had anything to do with Brady. They really didnt do anything to help out Jones who needs help. They took a kicker in the 3rd round that would have probably gone undrated or 6 or 7th round at best for starters. There were a ton of offensive weapons on the board for the first three rounds and they didnt take any of them.
We finally get a Pats game tonight. 😎👍
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I actually forgot that the preseason was shortened. Is there any concerns in how shortened preseason are handled. But this i mean that it used to be the norm for starters to play weeks 2 and 3, with some variation of course.
I'm not sure but I just watched a Pats podcast show last night that talked about tonight's game compared to the 1st preseason game from a year ago and how Mac didn't play then and probably not tonight either. Zappe & Hoyer played in that previous game and tonight we 'll probably see Zappe & Malik Cunningham.
EDIT: Mike Reiss is reporting that no starters are playing tonight
There were also reports coming out of Foxboro that the offense is adding plays to their playbook specifically for Cunningham too,not stuff that they would run with Mac or Bailey so hopefully we get to see what some of that looks like.
I've been reading that rookie WRs Demario Douglas & Kayshon Boutte have both been playing well in recent weeks and we finally get a chance to see them live.
Also seeing a report that BB brought back DE Trey Flowers on the cheap. I'm cool with adding another situational passrusher to this group who's had success playing in this defense.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I thought that the intention with Cunningham was to use him like Welker. You're hearing that there will be designed plays for him?
Yes,I should have typed that too. He is going to be used as a WR but the Quick Slants show was reporting that they were running plays with Cunningham lined up at QB too. Stuff that they wouldn't run with Mac or Zappe art QB. I don't know if we actually see them tonight but I hope we get to see a few, at least.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I'm getting excited for the Pats even if my expectations are pretty low, you gotta love August when the NFL camps open up more
It's almost Zappe hour.
I was only able to turn on the game with about 8 minutes left. Happened to be right when we wee receiving the punt before that long TD drive by Cunningham.
What did I miss? Anything stand out, especially in a bad way.
I went online and I see our fans clamoring for MC to QB2.
I had the game on but the volume down for most of the game and apparently I missed that Cunningham TD. I saw the drive up to that play though and would like to see more of him next week.
There weren't any real standouts outside of individual plays unless you want to count Cunningham.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
.......
Should we be concerned with the Oline? I know it wasn't starters out there, but still...
I honestly didn't catch enough of the Oline play to call it one way or the other but without the starters it would be tough to judge their play fairly.
Keion White looked solid just rushing the QB from a 3pt stance,don't know if he got an actual sack but he did come close a few times.
Christain Gonzalez did punch a ball out after his WR caught it but IIRC it bounced out of bounds so the Texans had the ball fro there.
Jalen Mills picked off a Stroud pass on the first drive.
Tyquan Thornton went up for a 2 handed grab that went for 27yds on their 1st drive. I menioned earlier that he's been taking a lot of heat for not making plays in camp,hopefully this jumpstarts his play.
DL/DE Daniel Ekuale had an early sack on Stroud that was a loss of 15yds.
Cunningham on one series went 3/4 passing the ball for 19yds while also rushing f times for 34 yrds including a rushing TD. Surprisingly I didn't see him lineup at WR at all, tonight.
Rookie punter Bryce Baringer punted 4 times for 200yds w/ two inside the 20 and 1 touchback.
I wasn't familiar with many of the players on both sides of the ball and after a game like this,just be happy that there weren't any notable injuries and both units should look better by next week with some if not all of their starters playing.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Cunningham's incompletion would be that very good throw into the endzone, which was dropped. I liked hat I saw. I know, I know, I know...
https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/dallas-cowboys-ezekiel-elliott-dalvin-cook-secret-sign-new-england-patriots-rumor
Just sign both of them to come play in NE and then watch the Pats run game steamroll thru defenses all season. 😉
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
You got half your wish. Elliot signed today with the Pats for 1 year 6 mil. Cook signed with the Jets for 1 year 8.6 mil
I would have preferred Cook but it wouldn't have made much of a difference
Jets will probably win the division now
Hopefully Bill is bringing Zeke in to be their #2 back behind Stevenson. I'd have preferred Cook but beggars can't be choosers here when there were only 4 RBs on their roster before this signing.
That Jets offense is going to look entirely different than we're used to seeing in recent years now that Arod & Cook are behind center.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Just saw this mentioned elsewhere: According to Pro Football Focus, Elliott had a success rate as a pass protector of 97.8 percent in 2022. He gave up two pressures — both of them hurries — on 46 blocking attempts. His effectiveness ranked fourth among the league’s qualifying running backs.
They've been looking for someone to replace not only James White's production as a 3rd down back but also his pass protection as well. Until we see how this current rendition of the OLine holds up, just his pass blocking will be sorely needed.
With this signing the team should still have around 9-11M in cap space plus all of next years picks to possibly sign or trade for another impact player on either side of the ball. Knowing BB though,he'll probably wait it out to see who becomes available when teams make their final cuts.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486