My local TV stations have spared me the opportunity to watch the Patriot weekly embarrassments, but I did note that we “got passed” the New York Giants this week. Someone posted that the Giants game would be a major obstacle to getting the #1 draft pick. Of course the Carolina Panthers have got to find a win or two to make that happen.
And if BB is doing the picking, you know darn well he’ll mess it up.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
This bad against the Giants? They should offer Robert Kraft a refund on their salary.
Bring back Cam Newton!
Steve Grogan is 70 years old, but he might do better.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
This bad against the Giants? They should offer Robert Kraft a refund on their salary.
Bills the one that should be offering a refund on his salary. Their WR core is terrible, theres multiple colleges with massively better WR rooms which just should not happen. Not to mention their best WR isnt even being dressed for games
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
He will draft a fullback and a punt return specialist
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
He will draft a fullback and a punt return specialist
you are forgetting the gunners. we need more gunners on ST's!
Someday Matthew Slater is going to retire and we need to be ready
Check this out. Zappe had 9 completions yesterday. in those 9 completions, he threw for a total of -4 air yards. His receivers accounted for 58 yards after the catch.
Mac had 12 completions yesterday. they accounted for -7 air yards. His receivers had 96 yards after the catch.
we have the most miserable QB room in football this year. both QB's are incapable of throwing the ball down the field successfully.
I cant tell who I want playing next week vs. the Chargers. Who will give us the best chance of losing? they are both just so bad...
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius, and receiving accolades about his coaching abilities. That's quite unusual for this to happen on a team that wasn't winning championships.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
😂
I just learned on this forum that New York and Cleveland are the same place.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
😂
I just learned on this forum that New York and Cleveland are the same place.
Love you guys ❤️❤️❤️❤️
oh boy. he went directly from the Giants to the Browns. He was considered a defensive genius with NY. It follows that he was still as knowledgeable about defensive game plans the year directly following his hof level game plan vs. the bills.
Bill was still the same Bill in 1991 as he was in 1990. follow?
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
😂
I just learned on this forum that New York and Cleveland are the same place.
Love you guys ❤️❤️❤️❤️
oh boy. he went directly from the Giants to the Browns. He was considered a defensive genius with NY. It follows that he was still as knowledgeable about defensive game plans the year directly following his hof level game plan vs. the bills.
Bill was still the same Bill in 1991 as he was in 1990. follow?
Being DC in NY and HC in Cleveland are two different things.
Stevek said he was called a genius HC in Cleveland.
Someone can be a great defensive coach and a horrible head coach.
Follow ?
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
😂
I just learned on this forum that New York and Cleveland are the same place.
Love you guys ❤️❤️❤️❤️
oh boy. he went directly from the Giants to the Browns. He was considered a defensive genius with NY. It follows that he was still as knowledgeable about defensive game plans the year directly following his hof level game plan vs. the bills.
Bill was still the same Bill in 1991 as he was in 1990. follow?
Being DC in NY and HC in Cleveland are two different things.
Stevek said he was called a genius HC in Cleveland.
Someone can be a great defensive coach and a horrible head coach.
Follow ?
"Stevek said he was hailed as a genius while HC in Cleveland."
i said it because it is well known fact. It's not a debatable point.
If you disagree with or don't like this fact, that's fine.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years.
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius,
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
😂
I just learned on this forum that New York and Cleveland are the same place.
Love you guys ❤️❤️❤️❤️
oh boy. he went directly from the Giants to the Browns. He was considered a defensive genius with NY. It follows that he was still as knowledgeable about defensive game plans the year directly following his hof level game plan vs. the bills.
Bill was still the same Bill in 1991 as he was in 1990. follow?
Being DC in NY and HC in Cleveland are two different things.
Stevek said he was called a genius HC in Cleveland.
Someone can be a great defensive coach and a horrible head coach.
Follow ?
"Stevek said he was hailed as a genius while HC in Cleveland."
i said it because it is well known fact. It's not a debatable point.
If you disagree with or don't like this fact, that's fine.
He was a very below average coach with a losing record in Cleveland.
That’s a fact. He was horrible as a HC in Cleveland, but you said he was known as a genius there.
Please show the proof to back up your ridiculous statement.
😂
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
Then if your cat could have coached Moss and he would have been an elite WR, what happened in 2006? Why wasnt he elite then? I will answer. He was a team cancer/malcontent. Same deal with Dillon. why was he so terrible in 2003? did he forget how to see a hole? did he forget how to run? did he slow down only to remember how in 2004 and have his best season?
These guys were brought into a very rigid, tightly controlled situation with the understanding that if they crossed certain boundaries they would be released. The whole coaching staff had control over the situation. they had formed a locker room with strong player/leaders who also would not put up with malcontent garbage.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
Then if your cat could have coached Moss and he would have been an elite WR, what happened in 2006? Why wasnt he elite then? I will answer. He was a team cancer/malcontent. Same deal with Dillon. why was he so terrible in 2003? did he forget how to see a hole? did he forget how to run? did he slow down only to remember how in 2004 and have his best season?
These guys were brought into a very rigid, tightly controlled situation with the understanding that if they crossed certain boundaries they would be released. The whole coaching staff had control over the situation. they had formed a locker room with strong player/leaders who also would not put up with malcontent garbage.
What happened in 2006 was he missed a couple games, had absolute garbage QBs, and wasnt getting thrown the ball enough. Walter and Brooks combined for 24 interceptions and 7 TDs and less than 3k yards. Good luck putting up numbers with those two. Are we just going to ignore that Moss had over 10k yards before that and being a top 5 WR for 8 years already?
Dillion was hurt in 2003
I really dont know what to say if youre going to credit Bill for Moss who was already one of the best WRs of ALL TIME and Dillion who was an elite RB at the end of his career coming off an injury.
Why cant Bill "coach up" his terrible Oline/Rbs/Wrs/TEs that he has now?
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
Then if your cat could have coached Moss and he would have been an elite WR, what happened in 2006? Why wasnt he elite then? I will answer. He was a team cancer/malcontent. Same deal with Dillon. why was he so terrible in 2003? did he forget how to see a hole? did he forget how to run? did he slow down only to remember how in 2004 and have his best season?
These guys were brought into a very rigid, tightly controlled situation with the understanding that if they crossed certain boundaries they would be released. The whole coaching staff had control over the situation. they had formed a locker room with strong player/leaders who also would not put up with malcontent garbage.
What happened in 2006 was he missed a couple games, had absolute garbage QBs, and wasnt getting thrown the ball enough. Walter and Brooks combined for 24 interceptions and 7 TDs and less than 3k yards. Good luck putting up numbers with those too. Are we just going to ignore that Moss had over 10k yards before that and being a top 5 WR for 8 years already?
Dillion was hurt in 2003
I really dont know what to say if youre going to credit Bill for Moss who was already one of the best WRs of ALL TIME and Dillion who was an elite RB at the end of his career coming off an injury.
Why cant Bill "coach up" his terrible Oline/Rbs/Wrs/TEs that he has now?
you dont know what you dont know.
here are some quotes from the 2003 bengals:
From Willie Anderson, RT: "They definitely can't bring him back, because he would destroy us next year," Anderson said. "The cancer would take affect."
"I'm taking it personally, That means you don't want to play with me, and you don't want to play with (center) Rich Braham and you don't want to play with the guys that played hurt for you for a lot of years and a lot of yards," Anderson said. "Basically, he was the guy we were playing our tail off for. We didn't have a lot to play for in a lot of those years, but the one thing we could take pride in is that we could help the running back go to the Pro Bowl. That was something we shot for. He knows that we were looking to give him the big games. It hurts me to see him laughing over there. If you want out of here that bad, adios."
"At the beginning of the season, he had a coach (Lewis) that loved him. Loved him," Anderson said. "There were years we had no passing game, and we didn't have a defense and we didn't have the luxury of a lead where we could sit and pound it with him.
"This year we had that," Anderson said. "But he was hurt. I don't know why he's mad. I don't know why he's mad at Mike Brown, (running backs coach) Jim Anderson, the players. If he had been healthy, that would have been him in there. But Rudi had to step in. Nobody hurt you, bro. You got hurt."
Dillon got his feelings hurt that the backup RB was successful during his injury and became a malcontent and clubhouse cancer after he returned from injury.
you really need to learn the context of this stuff.
@Basebal21 here are some more quotes about Corey Dillons fantastic relationship with his team and being the model teammate/leader there:
Some of the “past” incidents Dillon is referring to resided in a public statement claiming he’d “rather flip burgers” than play for the Bengals, as well as his indignant tossing of his jersey into a crowd in 2003, including a vague reference of it being his last game as a Bengal. It seems as if Dillon realizes those weren’t the best ways to express himself at the time, but did explain that it all stemmed from frustration.
"Though he was still under contract with the team in 2003, his heart wasn’t in it. “I am a grown man, I can admit when I’m wrong,” Dillon continued. “I did some stuff that was not cool, OK? Not cool at all. But, hey, at the end of the day I got the end result that I wanted. That was to play on a stage and actually winning a Super Bowl."
he was a great player and a terrible teammate in Cincinnati. Somehow that changed in NE...
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
Then if your cat could have coached Moss and he would have been an elite WR, what happened in 2006? Why wasnt he elite then? I will answer. He was a team cancer/malcontent. Same deal with Dillon. why was he so terrible in 2003? did he forget how to see a hole? did he forget how to run? did he slow down only to remember how in 2004 and have his best season?
These guys were brought into a very rigid, tightly controlled situation with the understanding that if they crossed certain boundaries they would be released. The whole coaching staff had control over the situation. they had formed a locker room with strong player/leaders who also would not put up with malcontent garbage.
What happened in 2006 was he missed a couple games, had absolute garbage QBs, and wasnt getting thrown the ball enough. Walter and Brooks combined for 24 interceptions and 7 TDs and less than 3k yards. Good luck putting up numbers with those too. Are we just going to ignore that Moss had over 10k yards before that and being a top 5 WR for 8 years already?
Dillion was hurt in 2003
I really dont know what to say if youre going to credit Bill for Moss who was already one of the best WRs of ALL TIME and Dillion who was an elite RB at the end of his career coming off an injury.
Why cant Bill "coach up" his terrible Oline/Rbs/Wrs/TEs that he has now?
you dont know what you dont know.
here are some quotes from the 2003 bengals:
From Willie Anderson, RT: "They definitely can't bring him back, because he would destroy us next year," Anderson said. "The cancer would take affect."
"I'm taking it personally, That means you don't want to play with me, and you don't want to play with (center) Rich Braham and you don't want to play with the guys that played hurt for you for a lot of years and a lot of yards," Anderson said. "Basically, he was the guy we were playing our tail off for. We didn't have a lot to play for in a lot of those years, but the one thing we could take pride in is that we could help the running back go to the Pro Bowl. That was something we shot for. He knows that we were looking to give him the big games. It hurts me to see him laughing over there. If you want out of here that bad, adios."
"At the beginning of the season, he had a coach (Lewis) that loved him. Loved him," Anderson said. "There were years we had no passing game, and we didn't have a defense and we didn't have the luxury of a lead where we could sit and pound it with him.
"This year we had that," Anderson said. "But he was hurt. I don't know why he's mad. I don't know why he's mad at Mike Brown, (running backs coach) Jim Anderson, the players. If he had been healthy, that would have been him in there. But Rudi had to step in. Nobody hurt you, bro. You got hurt."
Dillon got his feelings hurt that the backup RB was successful during his injury and became a malcontent and clubhouse cancer after he returned from injury.
you really need to learn the context of this stuff.
Have you ever played sports? Do you think its something knew that some teammates might not get along or that people will lash out in comments out of frustration when a player leaves knowing that will make them more popular for doing so?
Dillion had one good year with the Pats was injured his second year and retired after the third.
Not only was Brady there but again, if Bill somehow "coached these players up" when one was already a HOFer and the other was very good at the end of his career, why cant he coach anyone up on offense now
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
Then if your cat could have coached Moss and he would have been an elite WR, what happened in 2006? Why wasnt he elite then? I will answer. He was a team cancer/malcontent. Same deal with Dillon. why was he so terrible in 2003? did he forget how to see a hole? did he forget how to run? did he slow down only to remember how in 2004 and have his best season?
These guys were brought into a very rigid, tightly controlled situation with the understanding that if they crossed certain boundaries they would be released. The whole coaching staff had control over the situation. they had formed a locker room with strong player/leaders who also would not put up with malcontent garbage.
What happened in 2006 was he missed a couple games, had absolute garbage QBs, and wasnt getting thrown the ball enough. Walter and Brooks combined for 24 interceptions and 7 TDs and less than 3k yards. Good luck putting up numbers with those too. Are we just going to ignore that Moss had over 10k yards before that and being a top 5 WR for 8 years already?
Dillion was hurt in 2003
I really dont know what to say if youre going to credit Bill for Moss who was already one of the best WRs of ALL TIME and Dillion who was an elite RB at the end of his career coming off an injury.
Why cant Bill "coach up" his terrible Oline/Rbs/Wrs/TEs that he has now?
you dont know what you dont know.
here are some quotes from the 2003 bengals:
From Willie Anderson, RT: "They definitely can't bring him back, because he would destroy us next year," Anderson said. "The cancer would take affect."
"I'm taking it personally, That means you don't want to play with me, and you don't want to play with (center) Rich Braham and you don't want to play with the guys that played hurt for you for a lot of years and a lot of yards," Anderson said. "Basically, he was the guy we were playing our tail off for. We didn't have a lot to play for in a lot of those years, but the one thing we could take pride in is that we could help the running back go to the Pro Bowl. That was something we shot for. He knows that we were looking to give him the big games. It hurts me to see him laughing over there. If you want out of here that bad, adios."
"At the beginning of the season, he had a coach (Lewis) that loved him. Loved him," Anderson said. "There were years we had no passing game, and we didn't have a defense and we didn't have the luxury of a lead where we could sit and pound it with him.
"This year we had that," Anderson said. "But he was hurt. I don't know why he's mad. I don't know why he's mad at Mike Brown, (running backs coach) Jim Anderson, the players. If he had been healthy, that would have been him in there. But Rudi had to step in. Nobody hurt you, bro. You got hurt."
Dillon got his feelings hurt that the backup RB was successful during his injury and became a malcontent and clubhouse cancer after he returned from injury.
you really need to learn the context of this stuff.
Have you ever played sports? Do you think its something knew that some teammates might not get along or that people will lash out in comments out of frustration when a player leaves knowing that will make them more popular for doing so?
Dillion had one good year with the Pats was injured his second year and retired after the third.
Not only was Brady there but again, if Bill somehow "coached these players up" when one was already a HOFer and the other was very good at the end of his career, why cant he coach anyone up on offense now
Of course I played sports. most of us here did. not really pertinent to this discussion.
Of course, teammates do not always get along. the point here is that BB created an environment of coaches and players here in NE that would not allow players to become cancers in the clubhouse like they did on other teams. EVERYTHING was controlled. Had you been old enough to watch the games/postgames back then you would have seen for yourself how controlled even the player's post-game pressers were. everyone was in lockstep and toed the line. Or you were cut. That is why malcontents like Moss and Dillon were able to be integrated into the NE system when they were so toxic elsewhere.
@stevek said:
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
He will draft a fullback and a punt return specialist
you are forgetting the gunners. we need more gunners on ST's!
Someday Matthew Slater is going to retire and we need to be ready
@perkdog said:
You know Tom Brady is smiling over this utter disaster New England has become lol
How about Bill getting the boot this offseason and we end up with Brady as GM, Mayo as HC & McDaniels as OC?
Tom & josh get to go find us a new QB while rebuilding the offense while Mayo convinces our defensive free agents to re-sign here.
Comments
My local TV stations have spared me the opportunity to watch the Patriot weekly embarrassments, but I did note that we “got passed” the New York Giants this week. Someone posted that the Giants game would be a major obstacle to getting the #1 draft pick. Of course the Carolina Panthers have got to find a win or two to make that happen.
And if BB is doing the picking, you know darn well he’ll mess it up.
this was a HUGE loss for us!!! now we will own the tie breaker over the giants.
Kicker really came through for us at the end.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I was doing the same. while i was cheering, I was thinking how strange this all felt.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Patriots QB's - Good grief.
This bad against the Giants? They should offer Robert Kraft a refund on their salary.
Bill Belichick just announced that if the Patriots get the first pick in the draft, it will be a cheerleader.
Bring back Cam Newton!
Steve Grogan is 70 years old, but he might do better.
Tom Brady's daughter may be available.
as long as she is a cheerleader from Rutgers!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Bills the one that should be offering a refund on his salary. Their WR core is terrible, theres multiple colleges with massively better WR rooms which just should not happen. Not to mention their best WR isnt even being dressed for games
"that has an old over-the-hill head coach (Bill Belichick) who has morphed into a modern day version of an old over-the-hill Tom Landry."
The above is pasted from my opening post in the Eagles thread.
It wasn't any secret that Belichick's coaching skills had degraded. But I didn't think it was nearly this bad.
I'm not sure his coaching has really changed and the game very well may have just passed him at this point. Hes always been terrible with how he treats players its just when you win thats called instilling discipline or people dont care. Obviously that narrative changes when youre losing. To many years of him drafting have caught up with them now that they dont have Brady to bail them out (which they lucked into).
Yea but ya gotta remember Gronk, Edelman, and others he coached up over the years. Randy Moss was a pretty good free agent signing.
There's not much room for error when coaching at the top level. Missing something while analyzing game film, improper game planning, etc, IE a wide assortment of possible mistakes that likely he wouldn't have made when he was younger and more cognizant.
The coming "problem" is he might blow the high draft pick that the Patriots will be getting in the upcoming draft. I think Kraft stays with Belichick at least until the next season. But if Belichick's draft picks are losers, i think Kraft would have to bid farewell to him.
Moss didnt take any particular skill as a coach, just a check book.
Youre giving Bill to much credit saying he coached those gusy up. Gronk was very highly touted coming out of college and was the second TE picked in the draft. He should have been first but Cincinnati did Cincy things and took Gresham from Oklahoma. He really didnt do much with Welker or Eldeman either. Edelman had Brady as his QB his whole career and Welker spent the majority of his career with him as well. Welker wasnt a superstar but he was good in Miami before coming to NE, he was already developed when he got there.
Honestly if he manages to blow a top 5 pick this year I'd be impressed. This is a very offensive draft where even if the top QBs are all gone theres multiple WRs, Bowers, 3-4 tackles etc that would all be worthy of being taken that high. Unless he just intentionally tries to do something super cute you could just throw at a dart board of names and not mess it up. Theres still going to be some first round caliber offensive players in the second round this year
He will draft a fullback and a punt return specialist
Were these guys long snappers ?
Please share with us the data that shows improvement on the Cleveland wide receivers comparable to those guys.
Guaranteed to show Brady was the only reason for improvement.
you are forgetting the gunners. we need more gunners on ST's!
Someday Matthew Slater is going to retire and we need to be ready
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Check this out. Zappe had 9 completions yesterday. in those 9 completions, he threw for a total of -4 air yards. His receivers accounted for 58 yards after the catch.
Mac had 12 completions yesterday. they accounted for -7 air yards. His receivers had 96 yards after the catch.
we have the most miserable QB room in football this year. both QB's are incapable of throwing the ball down the field successfully.
I cant tell who I want playing next week vs. the Chargers. Who will give us the best chance of losing? they are both just so bad...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
you must not have been watching football back then. Moss absolutely had to be coached/mentored. He was a basket case who literally gave up on the Raiders. He was a clubhouse cancer before he came to NE.
Edelman was a college QB. I would say he took some coaching to become a great NFL slot receiver. Welker was an established NFL receiver, though not close to what he would become in NE.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm not going back and analyzing Belichick's time with Cleveland. I didn't follow it back then at all.
However I do know that even with Cleveland, Belichick was being called a genius, and receiving accolades about his coaching abilities. That's quite unusual for this to happen on a team that wasn't winning championships.
Moss did not have to be mentored. Hes a HOF WR that was elite when he signed with them. He was a diva like most WRs are and anyone thats ever watched a game knew all you had to do was throw the ball in the air and let him go get it. Hes ones of the greatest WRs of all time that signed with them as a 30 year old.who had been in the league for a decade. He already had 5 years with over 1300 yards, 7 years with over 1000 yards and lead the league in TD receptions 3 times before signing with the Pats.
Edelman had some moments but calling him great is a stretch. He was a very bad QB at Kent State that basically just ran the ball in a conference that is known for high powered offenses
Alex Smith. Geez.
Please show proof of someone calling BB a genius during his Cleveland years.
Do you realize that in one sentence you said you didn’t follow Cleveland and in the next sentence you said you did. 😂
Again, you are only reading stat sheets. you apparently dont know any backstory at all.
Moss quit on his team. He 100% needed mentoring. 100%.
You dont remember, because you dont watch games, but it was the same deal when BB signed Corey Dillon. He was a team cancer who became a great player again under BB.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
He was absolutely considered a defensive genius/guru during his years as a DC in New York. His gameplan to stop the Bills K-Gun offense in SB 25 is in the HOF in Canton.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Are you awake yet from celebrating the holiday?
Grab another cup of coffee, 😉
Are you seriously trying to argue that Randy Moss became a great player under Bill and hadnt been for a decade already or that the same wasnt true for Corey Dillion?
😂
I just learned on this forum that New York and Cleveland are the same place.
Love you guys ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Please answer the question 😂
you are not listening. That is not at all what i was saying. Both players had become uncoachable and locker room cancers. they were both considered risky signings/trades. the local sports talk up here in NE was at best split about moss/dillon when they were first acquired. there was fear they would be malcontents and destroy the locker room.
BB absolutely shut all of that down and they both were very productive with NE
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
oh boy. he went directly from the Giants to the Browns. He was considered a defensive genius with NY. It follows that he was still as knowledgeable about defensive game plans the year directly following his hof level game plan vs. the bills.
Bill was still the same Bill in 1991 as he was in 1990. follow?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Being DC in NY and HC in Cleveland are two different things.
Stevek said he was called a genius HC in Cleveland.
Someone can be a great defensive coach and a horrible head coach.
Follow ?
Dillion signed at the end of his career and had one top year which is normal for RBs. Moss was already one of the greatest WRs of all time. Radio and media can say whatever they want it doesnt make any of it true. My cat could have coached Moss and he would have still been elite as long as the ball was thrown to him. Moss was angry that Oakland was a dumpster fire and didnt have a QB his final year. Dillion was injured his final year in Cnicy and wanted the ball more too. Elite players especially skill players want the ball.
Careful now... this is a trap game for you... Chargers always gonna be Chargers.
"Stevek said he was hailed as a genius while HC in Cleveland."
i said it because it is well known fact. It's not a debatable point.
If you disagree with or don't like this fact, that's fine.
He was a very below average coach with a losing record in Cleveland.
That’s a fact. He was horrible as a HC in Cleveland, but you said he was known as a genius there.
Please show the proof to back up your ridiculous statement.
😂
Then if your cat could have coached Moss and he would have been an elite WR, what happened in 2006? Why wasnt he elite then? I will answer. He was a team cancer/malcontent. Same deal with Dillon. why was he so terrible in 2003? did he forget how to see a hole? did he forget how to run? did he slow down only to remember how in 2004 and have his best season?
These guys were brought into a very rigid, tightly controlled situation with the understanding that if they crossed certain boundaries they would be released. The whole coaching staff had control over the situation. they had formed a locker room with strong player/leaders who also would not put up with malcontent garbage.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
dont say that now, dont make my draft day anxiety rise here!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
What happened in 2006 was he missed a couple games, had absolute garbage QBs, and wasnt getting thrown the ball enough. Walter and Brooks combined for 24 interceptions and 7 TDs and less than 3k yards. Good luck putting up numbers with those two. Are we just going to ignore that Moss had over 10k yards before that and being a top 5 WR for 8 years already?
Dillion was hurt in 2003
I really dont know what to say if youre going to credit Bill for Moss who was already one of the best WRs of ALL TIME and Dillion who was an elite RB at the end of his career coming off an injury.
Why cant Bill "coach up" his terrible Oline/Rbs/Wrs/TEs that he has now?
Still waiting to hear why anyone would call a sub .500 coach who got fired a genius. 😂
you dont know what you dont know.
here are some quotes from the 2003 bengals:
From Willie Anderson, RT: "They definitely can't bring him back, because he would destroy us next year," Anderson said. "The cancer would take affect."
"I'm taking it personally, That means you don't want to play with me, and you don't want to play with (center) Rich Braham and you don't want to play with the guys that played hurt for you for a lot of years and a lot of yards," Anderson said. "Basically, he was the guy we were playing our tail off for. We didn't have a lot to play for in a lot of those years, but the one thing we could take pride in is that we could help the running back go to the Pro Bowl. That was something we shot for. He knows that we were looking to give him the big games. It hurts me to see him laughing over there. If you want out of here that bad, adios."
"At the beginning of the season, he had a coach (Lewis) that loved him. Loved him," Anderson said. "There were years we had no passing game, and we didn't have a defense and we didn't have the luxury of a lead where we could sit and pound it with him.
"This year we had that," Anderson said. "But he was hurt. I don't know why he's mad. I don't know why he's mad at Mike Brown, (running backs coach) Jim Anderson, the players. If he had been healthy, that would have been him in there. But Rudi had to step in. Nobody hurt you, bro. You got hurt."
Dillon got his feelings hurt that the backup RB was successful during his injury and became a malcontent and clubhouse cancer after he returned from injury.
you really need to learn the context of this stuff.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
@Basebal21 here are some more quotes about Corey Dillons fantastic relationship with his team and being the model teammate/leader there:
Some of the “past” incidents Dillon is referring to resided in a public statement claiming he’d “rather flip burgers” than play for the Bengals, as well as his indignant tossing of his jersey into a crowd in 2003, including a vague reference of it being his last game as a Bengal. It seems as if Dillon realizes those weren’t the best ways to express himself at the time, but did explain that it all stemmed from frustration.
"Though he was still under contract with the team in 2003, his heart wasn’t in it. “I am a grown man, I can admit when I’m wrong,” Dillon continued. “I did some stuff that was not cool, OK? Not cool at all. But, hey, at the end of the day I got the end result that I wanted. That was to play on a stage and actually winning a Super Bowl."
he was a great player and a terrible teammate in Cincinnati. Somehow that changed in NE...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Have you ever played sports? Do you think its something knew that some teammates might not get along or that people will lash out in comments out of frustration when a player leaves knowing that will make them more popular for doing so?
Dillion had one good year with the Pats was injured his second year and retired after the third.
Not only was Brady there but again, if Bill somehow "coached these players up" when one was already a HOFer and the other was very good at the end of his career, why cant he coach anyone up on offense now
Of course I played sports. most of us here did. not really pertinent to this discussion.
Of course, teammates do not always get along. the point here is that BB created an environment of coaches and players here in NE that would not allow players to become cancers in the clubhouse like they did on other teams. EVERYTHING was controlled. Had you been old enough to watch the games/postgames back then you would have seen for yourself how controlled even the player's post-game pressers were. everyone was in lockstep and toed the line. Or you were cut. That is why malcontents like Moss and Dillon were able to be integrated into the NE system when they were so toxic elsewhere.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Dammit,we dropped to #3 since the Cardinals lost their game. 🤬
https://www.tankathon.com/nfl
Here's hoping the Bears win tonight!
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
There is a lot more to the story than that.
But I'm not going to regurgitate ancient history.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You know Tom Brady is smiling over this utter disaster New England has become lol
How about Bill getting the boot this offseason and we end up with Brady as GM, Mayo as HC & McDaniels as OC?
Tom & josh get to go find us a new QB while rebuilding the offense while Mayo convinces our defensive free agents to re-sign here.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
It will be interesting to see if Brady is around more when Belichick is gone.