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New England Patriots 2023 Discussion Thread

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  • DarinDarin Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    So with the Niners blowing out the Eagles is basebal21 thinking it would be a much bigger blowout if only Mac Jones was the SF QB?
    And yes this is a serious question 🤭

    Why would it be a bigger blowout as opposed to someone that could do the same?

    Thats not a serious question at all

    I thought you said Mac was better than Purdy?

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2023 7:32PM

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    So with the Niners blowing out the Eagles is basebal21 thinking it would be a much bigger blowout if only Mac Jones was the SF QB?
    And yes this is a serious question 🤭

    Why would it be a bigger blowout as opposed to someone that could do the same?

    Thats not a serious question at all

    I thought you said Mac was better than Purdy?

    Skill wise yes, theres a ton of variables that go into a single game

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    They get more and more laughable on offense every week

    It's too bad because the D had a great game, granted it was against the Chargers who are a joke but still

    First team in NFL history to allow 10 or fewer points in 3 straight games - and lose them all.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2023 3:36AM

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    So with the Niners blowing out the Eagles is basebal21 thinking it would be a much bigger blowout if only Mac Jones was the SF QB?
    And yes this is a serious question 🤭

    Why would it be a bigger blowout as opposed to someone that could do the same?

    Thats not a serious question at all

    I thought you said Mac was better than Purdy?

    Skill wise yes, theres a ton of variables that go into a single game

    You think Mac is better that Purdy?

    Tough to say since Purdy is set up to win and Mac is set up for failure

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    So with the Niners blowing out the Eagles is basebal21 thinking it would be a much bigger blowout if only Mac Jones was the SF QB?
    And yes this is a serious question 🤭

    Why would it be a bigger blowout as opposed to someone that could do the same?

    Thats not a serious question at all

    I thought you said Mac was better than Purdy?

    Skill wise yes, theres a ton of variables that go into a single game

    i dont know how you can say that when you dont watch the games. Purdy has better speed. better arm talent, better processing speed.

    at this point, i think you are the only person in the country who doesnt think so.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    For Big Bill Belichick, touchdowns are becoming rarer than wins.

    The big question is will the management let Belichick waste the first draft pick?

    Yes, when you only allow 6 points in a game, you certainly should win it. Perhaps Belichick as a future as someone's defensive coach. His offense strategy is from the 19th century.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    @BillJones said:
    For Big Bill Belichick, touchdowns are becoming rarer than wins.

    The big question is will the management let Belichick waste the first draft pick?

    Yes, when you only allow 6 points in a game, you certainly should win it. Perhaps Belichick as a future as someone's defensive coach. His offense strategy is from the 19th century.

    I have always considered BB's strengths as a coach/HC to be on the defensive end and perhaps more importantly as an organizational mind to run the team as a whole ( I dont mean as a GM with drafting). He was always very detail-oriented and was very good at hiring great offensive minds to run that side of the ball.

    Pepper Johnson was a coach for BB early on with the Patriots. He wrote a book about the 01 SB team that gave a great look inside the team and how BB ran it. He was good at hiring, overall/big picture items and delegating to his coaches. He ran a VERY tight ship and put in unbelievable hours. As he has age, I can see how that level of time and concentration would waver some. As a younger man, I dont know of a Coach I would rather have, regardless of how he is doing now.

    that is not to say I think he was more important than players or Brady because i dont believe any coach is.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kyler & Co. gave you guys another pre-Christmas present

    you moved up to #2

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2023 6:42PM

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    So with the Niners blowing out the Eagles is basebal21 thinking it would be a much bigger blowout if only Mac Jones was the SF QB?
    And yes this is a serious question 🤭

    Why would it be a bigger blowout as opposed to someone that could do the same?

    Thats not a serious question at all

    I thought you said Mac was better than Purdy?

    Skill wise yes, theres a ton of variables that go into a single game

    You think Mac is better that Purdy?

    Tough to say since Purdy is set up to win and Mac is set up for failure

    Skill for skill I do think he is. Everything with Mac measures better than Purdy and Purdy was not very good in college. If you put them both in the exact same position Mac would at least match him and very likely surpass him. Purdy would for sure be failing if he was starting for NE right now too

    Purdy will for sure have the better career with the positions they are in. The talent on this 49ers offense is just insane

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog , that was an interesting read. I dont know the whole truth, but it sure wouldnt surprise me if that were true. If it is true, I certainly dont think BOB should be fired.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All right boys, who is pumped for the game tonight!!! Ok, I get it. Maybe a little too much enthusiasm there.

    I am picking Pitt. in a 2-0 beatdown of the Pats. I think T.J. will get a safety to score the points for Pittsburg.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 9,108 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All signs/pickers point to the under, which is 30. So I went the other way,over. Hope for 4 TDs and a FG.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    All right boys, who is pumped for the game tonight!!! Ok, I get it. Maybe a little too much enthusiasm there.

    I am picking Pitt. in a 2-0 beatdown of the Pats. I think T.J. will get a safety to score the points for Pittsburg.

    I can only imagine how bad the ratings will be tonight lol

    Since it's on Prime I hope some how they actually lose money airing it

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    All right boys, who is pumped for the game tonight!!! Ok, I get it. Maybe a little too much enthusiasm there.

    I am picking Pitt. in a 2-0 beatdown of the Pats. I think T.J. will get a safety to score the points for Pittsburg.

    I'm picking the Patriots.

    But then again, I picked the sun not to come up today. 🤔

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i fell asleep and missed the win.
    i saw the first 3 quarters , offense looked better, Zappe didn't play scared seemed to be the difference. Mac Jones played like that once before he self destructed. Fingers crossed they don't ruin this guy

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Patriots “lost” another one last night. Oh well, draft picks are overrated anyway. Pittsburgh must be really in the dumps to let the Patriots score that many points, less it was pick sixes.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what a joke. so short-sighted. that was a bad "loss"

    crazy that Zappe looked better than Mac has all season. like, a LOT better.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Patriots did everything they could in the second half to lose that game, but the Steelers just wouldn't let them.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:
    Patriots did everything they could in the second half to lose that game, but the Steelers just wouldn't let them.

    The Steelers going for that low percentage pass on 4th down was ridiculous.

    They didn't do much to try to win at the end of the game either

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i don't think last night's meaningless win will be too damaging. it dropped the Pats into a tie with Arizona and as it stands right now, i don't think the Cardinals are going to move away from Murray with their first pick. he would be too difficult to trade with that contract, plus he has made them competitive since returning. thus i envision them taking Marvin Harrison to give him the best possible play toy, if he comes out. but i certainly wouldn't recommend winning many more games if i was New England. there are a bunch of crap teams on their heels in the draft order that are chomping at the bit to get a new highly-touted signal caller.

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe the Patriots could trade the rights to Bill Belichick for a first round pick. Don’t laugh. The Jets hired Rich Kotite after a dismal season in Philadelphia. He didn’t disappoint them. He had an equally dismal season for the Jets. At least Belichick has a great track record (While he had Brady at quarterback.)

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @stevek said:
    Patriots did everything they could in the second half to lose that game, but the Steelers just wouldn't let them.

    The Steelers going for that low percentage pass on 4th down was ridiculous.

    They didn't do much to try to win at the end of the game either

    Gee, you guys must be real fans. I thought you had to pay to see Thursday night games. The Patriots-Stealers purchase didn’t look like a good investment on the surface. ;)

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    Maybe the Patriots could trade the rights to Bill Belichick for a first round pick. Don’t laugh. The Jets hired Rich Kotite after a dismal season in Philadelphia. He didn’t disappoint them. He had an equally dismal season for the Jets. At least Belichick has a great track record (While he had Brady at quarterback.)

    Perhaps the allure of Kotite sparring with Muhammad Ali, enticed the Jets to hire him. 😆

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    @perkdog said:

    @stevek said:
    Patriots did everything they could in the second half to lose that game, but the Steelers just wouldn't let them.

    The Steelers going for that low percentage pass on 4th down was ridiculous.

    They didn't do much to try to win at the end of the game either

    Gee, you guys must be real fans. I thought you had to pay to see Thursday night games. The Patriots-Stealers purchase didn’t look like a good investment on the surface. ;)

    My Girl has Prime so I put it on deep in the 4th quarter

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    i don't think last night's meaningless win will be too damaging. it dropped the Pats into a tie with Arizona and as it stands right now, i don't think the Cardinals are going to move away from Murray with their first pick. he would be too difficult to trade with that contract, plus he has made them competitive since returning. thus i envision them taking Marvin Harrison to give him the best possible play toy, if he comes out. but i certainly wouldn't recommend winning many more games if i was New England. there are a bunch of crap teams on their heels in the draft order that are chomping at the bit to get a new highly-touted signal caller.

    It may or may not. The Cards can trade down a couple spots and still end up with a stud WR. They dont have to stay that high if they arent interested in a QB. Harrison has the big name but there are other WRs that are just as good as him in the draft like Nabers, and theres also Bowers too that will probably fall much further than he should because hes a TE

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    It may or may not. The Cards can trade down a couple spots and still end up with a stud WR. They dont have to stay that high if they arent interested in a QB. Harrison has the big name but there are other WRs that are just as good as him in the draft like Nabers, and theres also Bowers too that will probably fall much further than he should because hes a TE

    i haven't seen Nabers play, but he better be exceptional if he's "just as good" as Harrison, who is the most polished WR i've seen in quite sometime. he's going to be a handful on the next level.

    i have seen Bowers, however, and he plays like a TE/WR hybrid. he's also going to be very difficult to contain in the NFL.

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2023 5:12PM

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    It may or may not. The Cards can trade down a couple spots and still end up with a stud WR. They dont have to stay that high if they arent interested in a QB. Harrison has the big name but there are other WRs that are just as good as him in the draft like Nabers, and theres also Bowers too that will probably fall much further than he should because hes a TE

    i haven't seen Nabers play, but he better be exceptional if he's "just as good" as Harrison, who is the most polished WR i've seen in quite sometime. he's going to be a handful on the next level.

    i have seen Bowers, however, and he plays like a TE/WR hybrid. he's also going to be very difficult to contain in the NFL.

    Nabers is a little shorter but hes right there with him. He lead the league in yards, their catch averages were basically the same with 18.1 yards a catch for Harrison and 18 for Nabers etc. Hes the #2 ranked WR for the draft and a first round talent. Harrison is also very good for sure, it would make more sense though for a 2nd overall pick team to move down a couple spots if they arent going to take a QB and could get a Nabers or Bowers and extra picks which would be worth far more than just Harrison. What Carolina gave up to the Bears last year was just crazy and the Bears still had a top 10 pick with the trade

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    It may or may not. The Cards can trade down a couple spots and still end up with a stud WR. They dont have to stay that high if they arent interested in a QB. Harrison has the big name but there are other WRs that are just as good as him in the draft like Nabers, and theres also Bowers too that will probably fall much further than he should because hes a TE

    i haven't seen Nabers play, but he better be exceptional if he's "just as good" as Harrison, who is the most polished WR i've seen in quite sometime. he's going to be a handful on the next level.

    i have seen Bowers, however, and he plays like a TE/WR hybrid. he's also going to be very difficult to contain in the NFL.

    Most hated show from my childhood flashback.

    Gomer pyle . Sarge should have chopped him up into pieces on episode 1

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Patriots eliminated from playoff contention at earliest point since 2000 season

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oh man, i assumed that happened weeks ago

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh my goodness. I had penciled in the KC game as a loss. now i am worried the Patriots might find a way to pull this game out and win 7-3 or something. ughhh

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2023 7:26AM

    @craig44 said:
    Oh my goodness. I had penciled in the KC game as a loss. now i am worried the Patriots might find a way to pull this game out and win 7-3 or something. ughhh

    They could beat them, the Chiefs are spiraling out if control, BUT we kinda thought that about the Bills and they could turn it around

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope they start back foot jones. he could find a way to lose to KC

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Talk starting connecting Jayden Daniels as possibly their preferred QB in the draft

    Also growing talk that the Bears are looking to trade down from 1 if they finish with that pick

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:
    Talk starting connecting Jayden Daniels as possibly their preferred QB in the draft

    Also growing talk that the Bears are looking to trade down from 1 if they finish with that pick

    He had some exceptional passing stats in college. has height. a little skinny, but he could put on some weight.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @Basebal21 said:
    Talk starting connecting Jayden Daniels as possibly their preferred QB in the draft

    Also growing talk that the Bears are looking to trade down from 1 if they finish with that pick

    He had some exceptional passing stats in college. has height. a little skinny, but he could put on some weight.

    Exceptional rushing stats too. 10 TDs, almost 1200 yards and lead the nation with 8.4 yards per carry.

    While LSU is throwing some money at them, itll be surprising if Daniels and Nabers stick around for their bowl game. Realistically every first round player should opt out if they arent in a playoff game, but its understandable if they want one last college game experience

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have heard the same on talk radio yesterday. who knows how true. It seems likely they part ways after the season.

    I hope they get some young draft guru in the building to get the most out of this terrible season.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Its only a small sample size of 4 total starts (2 in 2022 & 2 in 2023) but Zappe is 3-1 as a starter and he seems to play much better when he goes into the game knowing that's his role. He has a 67% completion percentage and a 103 rating as starter while those numbers drop significantly as the backup. (quick math has both under 50%)

    i don't expect him to be any type of longterm answer at QB but If he continues to play at a similar rate as starter I'd be ok with passing on a 1st round QB and possibly drafting Marvin Harrison Jr or the Tight End Brock Bowers.

    Just adding an elite playmaker and a legit Left Tackle with their first two picks would be a huge improvement for their offense and,who knows, maybe the next HC & Gm finds a QB that they like in the later rounds who could spend a year developing behind Zappe.
    I just want to see some talent brought in and it really doesn't even need to be an instant fix, just show the fanbase that they're putting the team on the right track and give us some hope that there will be a turnaround in the near future.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you to Pat Mahomes and the Chiefs. it was a little too close for comfort in the first half, but you came through.

    How Toney is still a member of your team, I have no idea.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With the Panthers win today, the Patriots are still in competition for winning the first draft choice Super Bowl.

    Whoever said that it wasn't fun to pile on? 😉

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2023 3:28PM

    It just goes to show that when you're losing lots of football games no one cares about the details BUT when you're winning multiple Super Bowls,if one thing seems off you get labeled as a cheater.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39168591/belichick-says-kicking-balls-chiefs-patriots-underinflated

    Had Brady still been playing for the Patriots on this past sunday's game we'd currently have the NFL, the FBI, Arlen Specter's ghost and the Scooby Doo gang all trying to get to the bottom on why NE's balls were deflated. As it is, its just a minor headline made public 5 days after the game had ended. 😎

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2023 3:41PM

    @erikthredd said:
    It just goes to show that when you're losing lots of football games no one cares about the details BUT when you're winning multiple Super Bowls,if one thing seems off you get labeled as a cheater.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39168591/belichick-says-kicking-balls-chiefs-patriots-underinflated

    Had Brady still been playing for the Patriots on this past sunday's game we'd currently have the NFL, the FBI, Arlen Specter's ghost and the Scooby Doo gang all trying to get to the bottom on why NE's balls were deflated. As it is, its just a minor headline made public 5 days after the game had ended. 😎

    Saw that and laughed that nobody cares all of a sudden

    "It happens" lol

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just noticed Mac Jones updated his resume on Linkedin. Kind of pathetic if ya ask me.

    "Soon to be ex-NFL quarterback will work for food. No job too small. Rake leaves, clean gutters, wash laundry, scrub bathroom floors, even be a ball-boy for a pee wee football team. Anything, please!"

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    stupid patriots. why didnt they start back foot jones. they had the 2nd pick all wrapped up.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If Bailey Zappe shows something in the final games, do the Patriots then not draft a QB, perhaps instead draft say a stud LT, and hope Zappe continues to develop next season, hopefully cutting down on the interceptions, etc?

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    stupid patriots. why didnt they start back foot jones. they had the 2nd pick all wrapped up.

    Would any Patriots fan from a decade ago believe that we would have rooting to losses to get a better draft pick? :o

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:
    If Bailey Zappe shows something in the final games, do the Patriots then not draft a QB, perhaps instead draft say a stud LT, and hope Zappe continues to develop next season, hopefully cutting down on the interceptions, etc?

    It would be a crazy move to think Zappe is the answer for the future. Theres 4 stud tackles in this draft. Theres only so Given the amount of QB, WR, and Edge rusher talent in this draft there is a chance that one of them will be available at the top of the second round. Theres only so many first round picks and theres also Bowers and Koolaide who someone will take somewhere in the first round

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @stevek said:
    If Bailey Zappe shows something in the final games, do the Patriots then not draft a QB, perhaps instead draft say a stud LT, and hope Zappe continues to develop next season, hopefully cutting down on the interceptions, etc?

    It would be a crazy move to think Zappe is the answer for the future. Theres 4 stud tackles in this draft. Theres only so Given the amount of QB, WR, and Edge rusher talent in this draft there is a chance that one of them will be available at the top of the second round. Theres only so many first round picks and theres also Bowers and Koolaide who someone will take somewhere in the first round

    I usually only begin closely analyzing the NFL draft a week or so before it happens, and always enjoy watching it, at least the first round.

    i don't even really follow college football all that closely except for when Penn State plays. Perhaps some now currently anticipated lower round QB draft pick, lights it up in a Bowl game, and suddenly draws attention to possibly becoming a first round pick, perhaps even a high first round pick?

    If Zappe performs mediocre in the final two games, it's probably a lock for the Patriots to choose a QB first. But if Zappe performs well, then it certainly complicates things for them. Your analysis may turn out to be right regardless of how Zappe performs. We shall see.

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