@ReggieCleveland said:
If you can't stake your reputation on material that is even possibly altered, and you were in Steve's office an hour after getting the boxes, and Steve told you they were tampered with, why did you list them for sale on eBay and even sell some of them?
Arthur
@gaspipe26 said:
An hour after I landed I was in Steve’s store, not an hour after I picked them up.
@gaspipe26 said:
Since my name was mentioned I figured I say something on the subject. I bought several items and I was not close to being the highest buyer. I boarded a plane with what I won immediately for Chicago and was in Steve's office an hour later. These boxes looked like they came out of cases. The 1976 Baseball look immaculate. Anyone who would see these would think so, right now if you saw them you would think so. Ive had conversations with several other buyers and they think so. Steve has reservations and he pointed them out. He also said he was not certain all the packs were resealed but he could not certify the boxes.
I was in the building where all the items were stored, it is massive, there were empty cases that these boxes came out of on the floor. If everything was jobbed, then it took years to do. Unfortunately myself and a few other buyers who I will not mention by name, if they care to respond they can do so, cannot stake our reputations on possibly altered material. I will only speak for myself but a few of us have reached agreement to return what we bought with the Auction House.
That being said, Ive also had some people tell me the stuff is good. I cant say as now Im confused. Im waiting on one box to arrive today from a very nice gentleman in NY who bought it and it all goes back, even the sets I won.
Hmm, if so, then why are the sets you are supposed to be sending back still posted on eBay?
@gemint - possible solution. Main thing is get it outta the "unopened" farse. It would be interesting to know if there are any quality cards & Rookies contained within or just commons in junky condition etc.
@UFFDAH said: @gemint - possible solution. Main thing is get it outta the "unopened" farse. It would be interesting to know if there are any quality cards & Rookies contained within or just commons in junky condition etc.
from watching stuff on ig, it's usually decent looking commons w the occasional oc star or rookie that follow zero collation.
I never like to see the pitchforks out; not everyone makes ALL perfect decisions under pressure.
Raise your hand if you do.
Also, ever notice how ethical everyone is on the internet? It’s funny because the ‘high road’ is really crowded online but in the real world you’ll never hit traffic; not even once.
(I’m not the high road poster boy; from around 16-27 I was the exact opposite. Don’t tug on Superman’s cape, don’t spit into the wind, don’t pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger and don’t mess around with Tim. Fact. I was often nasty and mean. Probably a surprise to some readers).
There’s not one poster on this website that I’ve met in person. So, while I don’t know @gaspipe and have no dog in the fight, I could see myself panicking over a large purchase, selling some day of as a hedge and sending the rest. I’d hope not but it could happen if the check was big enough. I’m human.
The difference between fraud and a mistake largely comes down to intent. MAYBE it’s a long con. But maybe the guy had a little too much money in it, was overextended and panicked for a weekend before coming to his senses. It sounds like he’s trying to do the right things now and I’m guessing it came from the advice of a few friends rather than exclusively from getting flamed a thread on these forums.
I’ve followed things along the way so I concede that things most certainly could have been handled better earlier but they always could by everyone in all walks of life.
But I also know people can earn second chances and mobs are for revenge, not justice.
That’s all I got.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@galaxy27 said:
the fact that this dude is still inhaling the air around here is rather remarkable i'd say
one would think that setting up shop across the street and attempting to fleece members to the tune of five figures would be grounds for being punted into the mesosphere
Yes
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Don't ya think at this point that piling on is "just" piling on?
seriously?
we are just warning and conversing about the things we do know. similar to an iceberg, there's usually a lot more under the surface that isn't even seen. attempting to tailback and roadblock for this guy? as @galaxy27 hinted at earlier, how this guy isnt even banned by now is a seriously better question, imo. especially considering he was attempting to schlep the stuff here.
guy deserves every bit of pile that's thrown on him. and honestly, i think the group, as a whole, has been fairly civilized about it knowing the hardcore group of unopened collectors we have here and the numerous amounts of group breaks that have occurred.
perhaps just think if the pile on didn't occur what would still be transpiring? taking it easy on someone that commits fraud only perpetuates it.
I'm not much for piling on in general but I'll make an exception in this case
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'll keep this open for now. I think the dialogue here has probably saved some people from making purchases they would learn to regret. I'm also guessing there will be more to come out of this situation. But if it becomes useless piling on, I'll close it up.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
@AFLfan said:
I'll keep this open for now. I think the dialogue here has probably saved some people from making purchases they would learn to regret. I'm also guessing there will be more to come out of this situation. But if it becomes useless piling on, I'll close it up.
Yes, let's keep this toned down from this point forward please as this needs to stay front and center on the forums. Also, more may come from this and we may need to know the info. Was everyone denied access to the lots before bidding or just guys like Steve??
Yes, we need to protect this thread, at least the posts not attacking specific people. The valuable information is Steve's feedback on the failed authenticity of this product and other comments related to the tape type and location. This junk may be floating around in the market for some time and some potential buyers may not be on this forum very frequently.
Since I’m being vilified, here is the sequence of events that happened as they happened. I’m not going to mention the 3 other buyers because I wouldn’t want them to get the same treatment I’m getting here.
Did all of us think we scored? Yes we did, are all of us either longtime sellers and or collectors, yes we are.
After I flew up to Chicago which was the 8th day after the auction ended and Steve canned the 9 boxes, which he told me was a professional reseal job, and a real good one, he said I’m going to have a friend of his call me as his friend bought over $250000 of the stuff. That person called me a hour or two later and was overnighting some of what he picked up to Steve. 2 days later this person and Steve said his were no good too. That’s when I removed my listings. Between my visit and the other boxes arriving at Steve’s I contacted the Auctioneer and he said angrily that BBCE was undermining his auction and the stuff was good. I explained or tried to that with out BBCE approving, and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, the stuff was no good and I was not saying he knew about it. He’s an auctioneer not a card guy. He said he would “look into it and get back to me” The next day no call back, and when the next batch proved worst than mine. I called the State Police Troop 4 in Delaware and lodged a complaint. They said, that it may be a Civil matter as the auction acceptance is “As-Is Where-As.
Speaking back and forth, with the 2nd buyer and Steve, Steve said if I needed a witness he would gladly help. The other buyer then contacted the State Police as well and the Troopers paid a visit to the auction house. A few hours later, the auctioneer called us and said he would refund us on Friday. We met up outside the auction house and he went first and I second, returned the stuff and received our refund.
On the drive back I was contacted by someone who wanted to discuss the items as he saw the listings I had previously and had a picture of his phone number in the message from EBay. I called him and we spoke for almost an hour. He bought $480000 of the stuff. I told him the story and he thanked me as he had not paid yet hearing all the stories on the boxes.
That evening he called me and said his friend would like to speak to me as he had bought $100000 of the stuff, had paid and had it in his possession. This person is in CA . I said sure and he gave him my number. Minutes later, he called and we spoke for 30 minutes or so and he was frantic. I told him the auctioneer was taking the stuff back and to call immediately. He also said he thinks some of what he had was good, I said BBCE said it was a pro reseal job. He said he opened some 71 Basketball packs and a West and Maravich were great and he wanted to keep it but the auctioneer wanted everything back. My suggestion was, send it back and get your money.
He agreed.
Last night he texted me and said he couldn’t return until the following week as the auctioneer was going to be out of town. He asked for the State Police info which I gave him as he’s worried he won’t be able to return. I told him to use my complaint as reference.
If the 2nd buyer and myself didn’t get this stuff to Steve so fast it could of been weeks before this came out and my measly purchase compared to the other 3 may not of been able to return or not to pay at all. I hope #4 gets his money back . He’s going to keep in touch.
The whole thing is a bad experience, and not only was I fooled but the $250000 and $480000 buyers who previewed the stuff and are long time buyers were. It was that good a job in some instances. So if you didn’t see it in person , don’t pass judgement, you may have been fooled too. Between me and the other 3 buyers your taking about almost $900000 which was most of the unopened. All the OPC Hockey and Philadelphia football were part of the $480000 that never was paid for. I think 90% or more of the older boxes and non-sport are back with the auctioneer with the exception of #4 and he’s sending back next week. I hope he gets refunded as well. As for the auction house? I don’t know but can tell everyone this. This auction was only the first half of it. He was going to have a second this winter. I doubt that will happen but there may be a ton a real good looking reseals hitting the market. So that’s the story in a nutshell. No one was trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes or were trying to be nefarious. Was I worried, yeah was #2 damn straight, #3 was going to be if he had paid before #2 and I got our stuff to Steve. He was going to take money out of retirement accounts to pay for it. #4 still is, I hope he gets reimbursed
5/3 was the day I went to BBCE and called the auctioneer, 5/5 #2’s stuff arrived and was no good. I called the State Police , #2 called either that day or the next day. I contacted the buyer of the 1970 Super box I sold and he overnighted it back to me. It arrived back on 5/7 in the morning around 11 am and I Priority Mailed his refund before going to the auction house. 5/6 auctioneer called me and #2 and set up appointments to return items after State Police visit. 5/7 met with #2 at auction house and returned items. Spoke with #3 an hour later and #4 a few hours after that. It wasn’t ignorance it was still not sure until #2’s stuff failed. No offers were accepted after 5/3 although a person did buy 2 boxes and that was cancelled I believe on 5/5 evening or early 5/6. There was 1 buyer who wanted to inspect the boxes in person before I left for Chicago but we couldn’t connect that weekend (5/1-5/2) before I left. I was hoping if #2’s was good, Steve would take another look at mine. I wasn’t sure and the crazy thing is both I and #2 as well as #4 are still not 100% sure. Some items like the 73 box, Steve and I opened 2 packs in the store. You could tell some cards were worn and there was a OC #1 card in pack one and an OC Rose in the other. The 1976 Boxes were pristine, the packs looked perfect, Steve’s explanation was although the flaps were sealed ., the underpinning (for lack of a better word) flaps were loose. The roller marks matched up, no smear on the top flap, then he showed the bottom flap had a heat smear. I don’t know if he knew that until we opened the packs or not.
2 spent most of 5/6 driving around collecting the items he sold . He doesn’t sell on EBay I think.
If the stuff was good, I probably would of sold the lot to Steve.
The fact that you were sending out messages like this one on the afternoon of 5/5 tells me all I need to know about you.
The part in red shows that you were not willing to share the information you got from Steve with an unsuspecting buyer. The part in green is just a disgusting lie because you had already tried to "do that myself and get more" but Steve Hart rejected your stuff. Lastly, the part in blue shows you're a crook (or ignorant) since you absolutely know that Steve Hart is PSA's pack authenticator.
Once the returns are settled, what will the consignor and auction house do? Who knows, but they are not going to garbage. In terms of next steps, be on the look out for the resealed items to hit ebay, LCS, shows, and etc. I suspect the resealed items will hit the mid-atlantic area hard in the near future. It would not surprise me to see these items at the Philly and Chantilly Show.
@Stone193 said:
I don't like anything that's happened in connection with the consignor, AH or eBay vendor.
Having said that?
Anything thats needs/has to be said has been articulated.
Don't ya think at this point that piling on is "just" piling on?
Hiya everyone,
I just want to clarify what I meant by this.
In "no" way was I wanting the discussion to be squelched as such.
I've been here for almost 20 yrs and these kinds of threads sometimes get out of hand in many different ways.
I do think there's still discussion to be had in keeping with "fair play."
The eBay email Nick posted needs to be explained or it stands on it's own - very damning IMO.
Other questions come to mind - what's going to happen to all this bad stuff? Who was the consignor? Will this stuff just find it's way into the hobby - after all - Steve said this was "pro" stuff - and I believe that.
Here's the packs from the eBay sale:
Those look really good to me.
Finally, if anyone thought I was wanting the discussion about this product to be stopped? I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Those packs look selected for the pic for a reason. Wrappers don’t even line up with each other. Would have been nice to provide pics of all 36 packs from the box. But even though with doubt he only shows 5 packs. Boxes sound pretty obviously fake. Just choose to show little detail.
@handyman said:
Those packs look selected for the pic for a reason. Wrappers don’t even line up with each other. Would have been nice to provide pics of all 36 packs from the box. But even though with doubt he only shows 5 packs. Boxes sound pretty obviously fake. Just choose to show little detail.
I have no expertise with unopened packs.
I didn't show the packs in defense of them but rather to highlight the fact that Steve said this was a really good job at faking the stuff and if this hoard is not confiscated, it will most likely still wind up in the hands of unsuspecting collectors.
@Stone193 said:
I don't like anything that's happened in connection with the consignor, AH or eBay vendor.
Having said that?
Anything thats needs/has to be said has been articulated.
Don't ya think at this point that piling on is "just" piling on?
Hiya everyone,
I just want to clarify what I meant by this.
In "no" way was I wanting the discussion to be squelched as such.
I've been here for almost 20 yrs and these kinds of threads sometimes get out of hand in many different ways.
I do think there's still discussion to be had in keeping with "fair play."
The eBay email Nick posted needs to be explained or it stands on it's own - very damning IMO.
Other questions come to mind - what's going to happen to all this bad stuff? Who was the consignor? Will this stuff just find it's way into the hobby - after all - Steve said this was "pro" stuff - and I believe that.
Here's the packs from the eBay sale:
>
Those look really good to me.
Finally, if anyone thought I was wanting the discussion about this product to be stopped? I apologize for the misunderstanding.
stone,
i'm not trying to be confrontational. i respect everyone's right to their own opinion as such. i'm just trying to figure out what you deemed to be considered "piling on"? was it the gifs, was it posting the ebay messages, the fun bags questions that op has still avoided, the cracking jokes of jokes trying to keep it fairly light in the midst of a serious issue or what?
i firmly believe i gave the guy the benefit of the doubt, kept an open mind and tried to view it from every possible angle. well that was until the ebay message that was posted and aligning the dates. to me that was the dagger. other, more experienced guys versed in unopened, pretty much called this from the beginning. it really was of no interest to me to go thru any of the pics of the auction and such. but looking back, it's obvious they did bc this is their arena. the guy still went thru it and posted in the bst section. i didn't see the on-site offering, but seems some would say gas pipe was even flaunting his score w "presale" offerings.
anyways, i was just a lil confused knowing that had this been n54 or blowout, that this guy would have been ripped to shreds. i'm my personal opinion and respecting yours, i don't think it's been a pile on by any means. have some serious questions been reposted? sure. but not to beat a dead horse. rather, gaspipe has responded throughout and is a craftsman at avoiding these very simple but extremely important topics. ie, fun bags and sets he said was returning but still listed to ebay. to me, that's not piling on, that's not letting the fish off the hook.
again, nothing but respect towards you and your tenure here. just trying to wrap my head around it is all.
@Stone193 said:
I don't like anything that's happened in connection with the consignor, AH or eBay vendor.
Having said that?
Anything thats needs/has to be said has been articulated.
Don't ya think at this point that piling on is "just" piling on?
Hiya everyone,
I just want to clarify what I meant by this.
In "no" way was I wanting the discussion to be squelched as such.
I've been here for almost 20 yrs and these kinds of threads sometimes get out of hand in many different ways.
I do think there's still discussion to be had in keeping with "fair play."
The eBay email Nick posted needs to be explained or it stands on it's own - very damning IMO.
Other questions come to mind - what's going to happen to all this bad stuff? Who was the consignor? Will this stuff just find it's way into the hobby - after all - Steve said this was "pro" stuff - and I believe that.
Here's the packs from the eBay sale:
>
Those look really good to me.
Finally, if anyone thought I was wanting the discussion about this product to be stopped? I apologize for the misunderstanding.
stone,
i'm not trying to be confrontational. i respect everyone's right to their own opinion as such. i'm just trying to figure out what you deemed to be considered "piling on"? was it the gifs, was it posting the ebay messages, the fun bags questions that op has still avoided, the cracking jokes of jokes trying to keep it fairly light in the midst of a serious issue or what?
i firmly believe i gave the guy the benefit of the doubt, kept an open mind and tried to view it from every possible angle. well that was until the ebay message that was posted and aligning the dates. to me that was the dagger. other, more experienced guys versed in unopened, pretty much called this from the beginning. it really was of no interest to me to go thru any of the pics of the auction and such. but looking back, it's obvious they did bc this is their arena. the guy still went thru it and posted in the bst section. i didn't see the on-site offering, but seems some would say gas pipe was even flaunting his score w "presale" offerings.
anyways, i was just a lil confused knowing that had this been n54 or blowout, that this guy would have been ripped to shreds. i'm my personal opinion and respecting yours, i don't think it's been a pile on by any means. have some serious questions been reposted? sure. but not to beat a dead horse. rather, gaspipe has responded throughout and is a craftsman at avoiding these very simple but extremely important topics. ie, fun bags and sets he said was returning but still listed to ebay. to me, that's not piling on, that's not letting the fish off the hook.
again, nothing but respect towards you and your tenure here. just trying to wrap my head around it is all.
Thank you for the deference.
And I have been here for a while and these types of threads occur from time to time.
posted by Tim aka 1951WheatiesPremium: Despite a funny .gif earlier, I want to add this:
I never like to see the pitchforks out; not everyone makes ALL perfect decisions under pressure.
Raise your hand if you do.
I'm in agreement of with Tim on this one - I believe getting to the bottom of this has great value but doing it with respect is also a good thing.
I have great respect for our forum and its members.
no one on this board is infallible. i think we can all come to a consensus on that. it's one thing to make less-than-perfect decisions in life, but when you -- in your heart of hearts -- try to wash your hands of a considerable financial endeavor gone wrong and make the cowardly decision to pass that hardship along to unsuspecting individual(s), that's when it gets very serious. and that's why my pitchfork is out. this guy was willing to swallow his integrity whole and was perfectly content with potentially turning someone else's world upside down -- just so long as it wasn't his. i can't even begin to tell you how angry that makes me. and i'll be honest, anyone posting in this thread who is remotely defending this guy makes me even angrier.
again, the timeline. again, the eBay message. Francart, thank you. if it wasn't for you, the truth would still be bubbling underneath the surface.
and to address the comment made by 51wheaties and quoted by stone up above, i misstep just as often as every other red-blooded human being, but i will take to my grave that i've batted a thousand in life when it comes to not screwing people out of money.
Perhaps this thread should be brought to Net54 so they are aware as well. Stone , you talk about respect which I agree however do you not recognize the disrespect that has been shown to the members here with the lies, silence, and excuses? This board is full of people with experience, expertise ,talent,intelligence and good character. No one is perfect and without faults. Gaspipe doesn’t need to be defended. He is definitely not the victim here. He chose to make an investment that could of potentially reaped a great profit. But he didn’t do his homework on the investment and he was fortunate to get refunded on his investment. Investments are risky and you certainly shouldn’t try and pass the buck on others if you make a poor choice.
He could of warned others on here like some of our other members did and continue to do. But he chose not to.
Stone , you talk about respect which I agree however do you not recognize the disrespect that has been shown to the members here with the lies, silence, and excuses?
Absolutely.
In terms of respect? I'm speaking in more general terms and IMO two wrongs don't make a right
When I quoted Tim, I was referring to his reference of the "pitchforks."
I don't condone anything that gaspipe has done.
While we indict him for his transgressions, I just believe that it doesn't have to turn into a "side-show" of gifs and name calling until he's had his chance to rebut.
If anyone disagrees with me? I can sure live with it.
I have said that gaspipe has something to answer to with respect to that eBay email - that's the most damning evidence IMO.
edit:
Gaspipe doesn’t need to be defended.
Not sure if this was directed at me?
In "no way" am I defending him.
The eBay email is prima facia IMO. He'll have a tough time defending with the timeline he's presented from my recollection.
I am simply reminding people that some threads are too important to lose and people should be given a chance to speak for themselves and explain their actions; believe it or not most people don’t like to speak in front of a crowd (IRL or online), and a hostile one even less so. Add in the admission that they’ve been duped and it’s tough sledding.
I don’t collect unopened and if I did I’d go with the opinion of a guy like @grote15 or @jmoran19 or several other guys with good reps and good knowledge as well as BBCE. I’ve had people ask me privately and publicly for Mantle opinions and info - most are happy to help genuine people.
I like when we’re civil to each other and I wanted to add sand in response to pouring gas earlier.
I’d have deleted the prior post but I’m still just too pleased with the joke to do so.
Hey, I’m human too. 😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Seems to me that any longtime member here would want seek the opinion of Tim or others here about something like this.
For example, I have asked Tim about packs I wanted to sell(51 Topps Red back) and about sending in a cello to PSA for grading. In fact, one that I purchased from him he predicted the grade I would receive (78 Topps Cello w/ Jack Morris RC on top, PSA 8). He was 100% right.
I have read this entire thread. Gaspipe certainly has some more explaining to do IMO. I am not sure there is anything he can post at this point to regain his standing. The thing that I would hate to see is that some great members here getting upset with each other over some shenanigans that gaspipe is responsible for. Members on this forum have shared some incredible amount of knowledge. I would hate to see gaspipe be the reason for some great members leaving this forum, be it on their on volition or getting banned . If anyone needs to pay the price it is gaspipe for his actions.
@JBrules said:
I have read this entire thread. Gaspipe certainly has some more explaining to do IMO. I am not sure there is anything he can post at this point to regain his standing. The thing that I would hate to see is that some great members here getting upset with each other over some shenanigans that gaspipe is responsible for. Members on this forum have shared some incredible amount of knowledge. I would hate to see gaspipe be the reason for some great members leaving this forum, be it on their on volition or getting banned . If anyone needs to pay the price it is gaspipe for his actions.
Well said JB about our members. In regards to Gaspipe explaining anything at this point....I really don't want to hear any excuses. He could easily come up with the kids been in the hospital for 18 days, father passed away, hurricane left him homeless for 3 weeks and Quarantined with COVID and try to divide many on this board due to sympathy. The EBAY message is all I can see. That's it. It's even dated and time stamped. Nothing else matters whatsoever. People are not who we think they are. It's sad; but many times very true. How about the auction house.....are they completely on the up and up. They obviously knew the packs were crap as to not allow Steve access. The AH is not a saint in this whole thing either. They sound crooked.
The 5/5 eBay message is after gaspipe found out the boxes were bad from Steve but before the auction house had agreed to refund his money. Sadly, trying to cheat another person when you know the box failed authentication reveals true character. Unfortunately in life, you really can't judge a person's character until "real money to them" decisions are on the line. That is when people reveal who they are. Gaspipe failed pretty miserably. Doesn't mean he is scum of the earth, just means when things were looking terrible for him, he was willing to defraud someone else. It is very similar to not knowing who your real friends are until you hit rock bottom and see who stuck with you. Hopefully, he learns from this experience and emerges a better person. Unfortunately, most people end up justifying their actions in their own minds rather than taking a look in the mirror and changing for the better.
@fergie23 said:
The 5/5 eBay message is after gaspipe found out the boxes were bad from Steve but before the auction house had agreed to refund his money. Sadly, trying to cheat another person when you know the box failed authentication reveals true character. Unfortunately in life, you really can't judge a person's character until "real money to them" decisions are on the line. That is when people reveal who they are. Gaspipe failed pretty miserably. Doesn't mean he is scum of the earth, just means when things were looking terrible for him, he was willing to defraud someone else. It is very similar to not knowing who your real friends are until you hit rock bottom and see who stuck with you. Hopefully, he learns from this experience and emerges a better person. Unfortunately, most people end up justifying their actions in their own minds rather than taking a look in the mirror and changing for the better.
Robb
well said Fergie, well said. I've kept quiet, because I have no idea what to say, but you did it for me.
All I here over and over on these boards is "DO NOT BUY ANY UNOPENED UNLESS VERIFIED BY BBCE". DO NOT. DO NOT. Now a known member , not only buys unopened , but turns around and tries to sell it? And knowing it could be or has been searched? Shame on you.
At this point, we can say the following with confidence:
1.) Gaspipe intended to deceive while selling these products on eBay (see: eBay private message and his own given timeline)
2.) Gaspipe has been given an abundance of time to address the still lingering and rather direct questions that are still out there and so it can be inferred he has no intention of being transparent or honest about those. Waiting for a response or continuously asking the same questions seems like unneeded traffic. I believe we have enough to make a definitive decision about Gaspipe's character and actions.
3.) Post counts and/or member duration do not equate to character. We've had long-standing members run elaborate scams on our members here.
4.) An effort should probably be made to accumulate as many scans/images of all of these products and house them here in this thread as they will almost certainly resurface in the future.
A good, succinct summary, Arthur. Thank you for that.
At this point the same issues have been pretty well addressed. Let's try to reserve further posts for new/relevant information and skip further rehashing of issues already addressed.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
Please leave GASPIPE alone. If it wasn't for him rushing his items to be authenticated this mess would have been MUCH WORSE than it already is. I was a buyer of this auction and if it wasn't for Gaspipe I would have never been able to get my refund. I'm thankful for him and this hobby needs more GOOD guys. Gaspipe explained himself and now we need to focus on these items being opened or destroyed and spreading awareness on these items. This was a professional job and had been planned for many years. I don't get duped often but these items passed my tests as well. Everyone be good, be well and God Bless.
@SCS_1 said:
Please leave GASPIPE alone. If it wasn't for him rushing his items to be authenticated this mess would have been MUCH WORSE than it already is. I was a buyer of this auction and if it wasn't for Gaspipe I would have never been able to get my refund. I'm thankful for him and this hobby needs more GOOD guys. Gaspipe explained himself and now we need to focus on these items being opened or destroyed and spreading awareness on these items. This was a professional job and had been planned for many years. I don't get duped often but these items passed my tests as well. Everyone be good, be well and God Bless.
did you read the thread? if so, then enough said.
perhaps stop to consider that by informing you, that he was also helping himself bc he'd know there would be more pressure to the auction house to accept his returns.
him letting you know, helps himself and in no way wipes the slate clean for what he pulled after he DID know they were bogus. he let you know so you would threaten police interaction, cause stink with and apply more pressure to auction house to ensure a quick and speedy refund to him. you weren't so much as helped as you were used.
@SCS_1 said:
Please leave GASPIPE alone. If it wasn't for him rushing his items to be authenticated this mess would have been MUCH WORSE than it already is. I was a buyer of this auction and if it wasn't for Gaspipe I would have never been able to get my refund. I'm thankful for him and this hobby needs more GOOD guys. Gaspipe explained himself and now we need to focus on these items being opened or destroyed and spreading awareness on these items. This was a professional job and had been planned for many years. I don't get duped often but these items passed my tests as well. Everyone be good, be well and God Bless.
one final question for you to ponder...
after he did inform you, did you still leave any ebay offerings listed, follow thru with any existing sales or send messages attempting to sway a potential buyer into following thru w a purchase?
Comments
Oh. Well that changes everything.
Arthur
Hmm, if so, then why are the sets you are supposed to be sending back still posted on eBay?
@gemint - possible solution. Main thing is get it outta the "unopened" farse. It would be interesting to know if there are any quality cards & Rookies contained within or just commons in junky condition etc.
from watching stuff on ig, it's usually decent looking commons w the occasional oc star or rookie that follow zero collation.
Trust is built in drops and lost in buckets. Gaspipe's reputation is finished around here.
Despite a funny .gif earlier, I want to add this:
I never like to see the pitchforks out; not everyone makes ALL perfect decisions under pressure.
Raise your hand if you do.
Also, ever notice how ethical everyone is on the internet? It’s funny because the ‘high road’ is really crowded online but in the real world you’ll never hit traffic; not even once.
(I’m not the high road poster boy; from around 16-27 I was the exact opposite. Don’t tug on Superman’s cape, don’t spit into the wind, don’t pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger and don’t mess around with Tim. Fact. I was often nasty and mean. Probably a surprise to some readers).
There’s not one poster on this website that I’ve met in person. So, while I don’t know @gaspipe and have no dog in the fight, I could see myself panicking over a large purchase, selling some day of as a hedge and sending the rest. I’d hope not but it could happen if the check was big enough. I’m human.
The difference between fraud and a mistake largely comes down to intent. MAYBE it’s a long con. But maybe the guy had a little too much money in it, was overextended and panicked for a weekend before coming to his senses. It sounds like he’s trying to do the right things now and I’m guessing it came from the advice of a few friends rather than exclusively from getting flamed a thread on these forums.
I’ve followed things along the way so I concede that things most certainly could have been handled better earlier but they always could by everyone in all walks of life.
But I also know people can earn second chances and mobs are for revenge, not justice.
That’s all I got.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Yes
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What the 50 mile drive back must have felt like
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
^ great movie.
I don't like anything that's happened in connection with the consignor, AH or eBay vendor.
Having said that?
Anything thats needs/has to be said has been articulated.
Don't ya think at this point that piling on is "just" piling on?
seriously?
we are just warning and conversing about the things we do know. similar to an iceberg, there's usually a lot more under the surface that isn't even seen. attempting to tailback and roadblock for this guy? as @galaxy27 hinted at earlier, how this guy isnt even banned by now is a seriously better question, imo. especially considering he was attempting to schlep the stuff here.
guy deserves every bit of pile that's thrown on him. and honestly, i think the group, as a whole, has been fairly civilized about it knowing the hardcore group of unopened collectors we have here and the numerous amounts of group breaks that have occurred.
perhaps just think if the pile on didn't occur what would still be transpiring? taking it easy on someone that commits fraud only perpetuates it.
I'm not much for piling on in general but I'll make an exception in this case
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'll keep this open for now. I think the dialogue here has probably saved some people from making purchases they would learn to regret. I'm also guessing there will be more to come out of this situation. But if it becomes useless piling on, I'll close it up.
Yes, let's keep this toned down from this point forward please as this needs to stay front and center on the forums. Also, more may come from this and we may need to know the info. Was everyone denied access to the lots before bidding or just guys like Steve??
Yes, we need to protect this thread, at least the posts not attacking specific people. The valuable information is Steve's feedback on the failed authenticity of this product and other comments related to the tape type and location. This junk may be floating around in the market for some time and some potential buyers may not be on this forum very frequently.
Since I’m being vilified, here is the sequence of events that happened as they happened. I’m not going to mention the 3 other buyers because I wouldn’t want them to get the same treatment I’m getting here.
Did all of us think we scored? Yes we did, are all of us either longtime sellers and or collectors, yes we are.
After I flew up to Chicago which was the 8th day after the auction ended and Steve canned the 9 boxes, which he told me was a professional reseal job, and a real good one, he said I’m going to have a friend of his call me as his friend bought over $250000 of the stuff. That person called me a hour or two later and was overnighting some of what he picked up to Steve. 2 days later this person and Steve said his were no good too. That’s when I removed my listings. Between my visit and the other boxes arriving at Steve’s I contacted the Auctioneer and he said angrily that BBCE was undermining his auction and the stuff was good. I explained or tried to that with out BBCE approving, and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, the stuff was no good and I was not saying he knew about it. He’s an auctioneer not a card guy. He said he would “look into it and get back to me” The next day no call back, and when the next batch proved worst than mine. I called the State Police Troop 4 in Delaware and lodged a complaint. They said, that it may be a Civil matter as the auction acceptance is “As-Is Where-As.
Speaking back and forth, with the 2nd buyer and Steve, Steve said if I needed a witness he would gladly help. The other buyer then contacted the State Police as well and the Troopers paid a visit to the auction house. A few hours later, the auctioneer called us and said he would refund us on Friday. We met up outside the auction house and he went first and I second, returned the stuff and received our refund.
On the drive back I was contacted by someone who wanted to discuss the items as he saw the listings I had previously and had a picture of his phone number in the message from EBay. I called him and we spoke for almost an hour. He bought $480000 of the stuff. I told him the story and he thanked me as he had not paid yet hearing all the stories on the boxes.
That evening he called me and said his friend would like to speak to me as he had bought $100000 of the stuff, had paid and had it in his possession. This person is in CA . I said sure and he gave him my number. Minutes later, he called and we spoke for 30 minutes or so and he was frantic. I told him the auctioneer was taking the stuff back and to call immediately. He also said he thinks some of what he had was good, I said BBCE said it was a pro reseal job. He said he opened some 71 Basketball packs and a West and Maravich were great and he wanted to keep it but the auctioneer wanted everything back. My suggestion was, send it back and get your money.
He agreed.
Last night he texted me and said he couldn’t return until the following week as the auctioneer was going to be out of town. He asked for the State Police info which I gave him as he’s worried he won’t be able to return. I told him to use my complaint as reference.
If the 2nd buyer and myself didn’t get this stuff to Steve so fast it could of been weeks before this came out and my measly purchase compared to the other 3 may not of been able to return or not to pay at all. I hope #4 gets his money back . He’s going to keep in touch.
The whole thing is a bad experience, and not only was I fooled but the $250000 and $480000 buyers who previewed the stuff and are long time buyers were. It was that good a job in some instances. So if you didn’t see it in person , don’t pass judgement, you may have been fooled too. Between me and the other 3 buyers your taking about almost $900000 which was most of the unopened. All the OPC Hockey and Philadelphia football were part of the $480000 that never was paid for. I think 90% or more of the older boxes and non-sport are back with the auctioneer with the exception of #4 and he’s sending back next week. I hope he gets refunded as well. As for the auction house? I don’t know but can tell everyone this. This auction was only the first half of it. He was going to have a second this winter. I doubt that will happen but there may be a ton a real good looking reseals hitting the market. So that’s the story in a nutshell. No one was trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes or were trying to be nefarious. Was I worried, yeah was #2 damn straight, #3 was going to be if he had paid before #2 and I got our stuff to Steve. He was going to take money out of retirement accounts to pay for it. #4 still is, I hope he gets reimbursed
Deleted by author (15 yard penalty for piling on
)
ETA - gaspipe must have seen my request for dates before I edited... thanks for providing the additional info
Jim
5/3 was the day I went to BBCE and called the auctioneer, 5/5 #2’s stuff arrived and was no good. I called the State Police , #2 called either that day or the next day. I contacted the buyer of the 1970 Super box I sold and he overnighted it back to me. It arrived back on 5/7 in the morning around 11 am and I Priority Mailed his refund before going to the auction house. 5/6 auctioneer called me and #2 and set up appointments to return items after State Police visit. 5/7 met with #2 at auction house and returned items. Spoke with #3 an hour later and #4 a few hours after that. It wasn’t ignorance it was still not sure until #2’s stuff failed. No offers were accepted after 5/3 although a person did buy 2 boxes and that was cancelled I believe on 5/5 evening or early 5/6. There was 1 buyer who wanted to inspect the boxes in person before I left for Chicago but we couldn’t connect that weekend (5/1-5/2) before I left. I was hoping if #2’s was good, Steve would take another look at mine. I wasn’t sure and the crazy thing is both I and #2 as well as #4 are still not 100% sure. Some items like the 73 box, Steve and I opened 2 packs in the store. You could tell some cards were worn and there was a OC #1 card in pack one and an OC Rose in the other. The 1976 Boxes were pristine, the packs looked perfect, Steve’s explanation was although the flaps were sealed ., the underpinning (for lack of a better word) flaps were loose. The roller marks matched up, no smear on the top flap, then he showed the bottom flap had a heat smear. I don’t know if he knew that until we opened the packs or not.
2 spent most of 5/6 driving around collecting the items he sold . He doesn’t sell on EBay I think.
If the stuff was good, I probably would of sold the lot to Steve.
The fact that you were sending out messages like this one on the afternoon of 5/5 tells me all I need to know about you.
The part in red shows that you were not willing to share the information you got from Steve with an unsuspecting buyer. The part in green is just a disgusting lie because you had already tried to "do that myself and get more" but Steve Hart rejected your stuff. Lastly, the part in blue shows you're a crook (or ignorant) since you absolutely know that Steve Hart is PSA's pack authenticator.
Fun bag?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184803951053?hash=item2b072c81cd:g:YMAAAOSwpnZgjKUz&nma=true&si=hoIIhwE4ZTtNuMe3w4RXYFjTec8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Once the returns are settled, what will the consignor and auction house do? Who knows, but they are not going to garbage. In terms of next steps, be on the look out for the resealed items to hit ebay, LCS, shows, and etc. I suspect the resealed items will hit the mid-atlantic area hard in the near future. It would not surprise me to see these items at the Philly and Chantilly Show.
The pack resealing couldn't have been that professional referring back to my April 27 post in this thread.
Hiya everyone,
I just want to clarify what I meant by this.
In "no" way was I wanting the discussion to be squelched as such.
I've been here for almost 20 yrs and these kinds of threads sometimes get out of hand in many different ways.
I do think there's still discussion to be had in keeping with "fair play."
The eBay email Nick posted needs to be explained or it stands on it's own - very damning IMO.
Other questions come to mind - what's going to happen to all this bad stuff? Who was the consignor? Will this stuff just find it's way into the hobby - after all - Steve said this was "pro" stuff - and I believe that.
Here's the packs from the eBay sale:
Those look really good to me.
Finally, if anyone thought I was wanting the discussion about this product to be stopped? I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Those packs look selected for the pic for a reason. Wrappers don’t even line up with each other. Would have been nice to provide pics of all 36 packs from the box. But even though with doubt he only shows 5 packs. Boxes sound pretty obviously fake. Just choose to show little detail.
I have no expertise with unopened packs.
I didn't show the packs in defense of them but rather to highlight the fact that Steve said this was a really good job at faking the stuff and if this hoard is not confiscated, it will most likely still wind up in the hands of unsuspecting collectors.
Life is too short, I am no expert, and I am too poor to take chances on anything which has not been authenticated by Steve and PSA.
Have the guy who opened some 1971 Bball packs post the results of to of the packs and I’ll tell ya if they seemed legit or not
John
Current obsession, all things Topps 1969 - 1972
This.
John has memorized the collation for every sportscard set produced from 1910 to present day. He is the collation whisperer.
Arthur
>
stone,
i'm not trying to be confrontational. i respect everyone's right to their own opinion as such. i'm just trying to figure out what you deemed to be considered "piling on"? was it the gifs, was it posting the ebay messages, the fun bags questions that op has still avoided, the cracking jokes of jokes trying to keep it fairly light in the midst of a serious issue or what?
i firmly believe i gave the guy the benefit of the doubt, kept an open mind and tried to view it from every possible angle. well that was until the ebay message that was posted and aligning the dates. to me that was the dagger. other, more experienced guys versed in unopened, pretty much called this from the beginning. it really was of no interest to me to go thru any of the pics of the auction and such. but looking back, it's obvious they did bc this is their arena. the guy still went thru it and posted in the bst section. i didn't see the on-site offering, but seems some would say gas pipe was even flaunting his score w "presale" offerings.
anyways, i was just a lil confused knowing that had this been n54 or blowout, that this guy would have been ripped to shreds. i'm my personal opinion and respecting yours, i don't think it's been a pile on by any means. have some serious questions been reposted? sure. but not to beat a dead horse. rather, gaspipe has responded throughout and is a craftsman at avoiding these very simple but extremely important topics. ie, fun bags and sets he said was returning but still listed to ebay. to me, that's not piling on, that's not letting the fish off the hook.
again, nothing but respect towards you and your tenure here. just trying to wrap my head around it is all.
Thank you for the deference.
And I have been here for a while and these types of threads occur from time to time.
I'm in agreement of with Tim on this one - I believe getting to the bottom of this has great value but doing it with respect is also a good thing.
I have great respect for our forum and its members.
no one on this board is infallible. i think we can all come to a consensus on that. it's one thing to make less-than-perfect decisions in life, but when you -- in your heart of hearts -- try to wash your hands of a considerable financial endeavor gone wrong and make the cowardly decision to pass that hardship along to unsuspecting individual(s), that's when it gets very serious. and that's why my pitchfork is out. this guy was willing to swallow his integrity whole and was perfectly content with potentially turning someone else's world upside down -- just so long as it wasn't his. i can't even begin to tell you how angry that makes me. and i'll be honest, anyone posting in this thread who is remotely defending this guy makes me even angrier.
again, the timeline. again, the eBay message. Francart, thank you. if it wasn't for you, the truth would still be bubbling underneath the surface.
and to address the comment made by 51wheaties and quoted by stone up above, i misstep just as often as every other red-blooded human being, but i will take to my grave that i've batted a thousand in life when it comes to not screwing people out of money.
i have both hands up.
Perhaps this thread should be brought to Net54 so they are aware as well. Stone , you talk about respect which I agree however do you not recognize the disrespect that has been shown to the members here with the lies, silence, and excuses? This board is full of people with experience, expertise ,talent,intelligence and good character. No one is perfect and without faults. Gaspipe doesn’t need to be defended. He is definitely not the victim here. He chose to make an investment that could of potentially reaped a great profit. But he didn’t do his homework on the investment and he was fortunate to get refunded on his investment. Investments are risky and you certainly shouldn’t try and pass the buck on others if you make a poor choice.
He could of warned others on here like some of our other members did and continue to do. But he chose not to.
To destroy or not to destroy?
Absolutely.
In terms of respect? I'm speaking in more general terms and IMO two wrongs don't make a right
When I quoted Tim, I was referring to his reference of the "pitchforks."
I don't condone anything that gaspipe has done.
While we indict him for his transgressions, I just believe that it doesn't have to turn into a "side-show" of gifs and name calling until he's had his chance to rebut.
If anyone disagrees with me? I can sure live with it.
I have said that gaspipe has something to answer to with respect to that eBay email - that's the most damning evidence IMO.
edit:
Not sure if this was directed at me?
In "no way" am I defending him.
The eBay email is prima facia IMO. He'll have a tough time defending with the timeline he's presented from my recollection.
@galaxy27
@blurryface
I am not defending anyone or their actions.
I am simply reminding people that some threads are too important to lose and people should be given a chance to speak for themselves and explain their actions; believe it or not most people don’t like to speak in front of a crowd (IRL or online), and a hostile one even less so. Add in the admission that they’ve been duped and it’s tough sledding.
I don’t collect unopened and if I did I’d go with the opinion of a guy like @grote15 or @jmoran19 or several other guys with good reps and good knowledge as well as BBCE. I’ve had people ask me privately and publicly for Mantle opinions and info - most are happy to help genuine people.
I like when we’re civil to each other and I wanted to add sand in response to pouring gas earlier.
I’d have deleted the prior post but I’m still just too pleased with the joke to do so.
Hey, I’m human too. 😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Seems to me that any longtime member here would want seek the opinion of Tim or others here about something like this.
For example, I have asked Tim about packs I wanted to sell(51 Topps Red back) and about sending in a cello to PSA for grading. In fact, one that I purchased from him he predicted the grade I would receive (78 Topps Cello w/ Jack Morris RC on top, PSA 8). He was 100% right.
Tough to defend Bob's actions for sure.
I have read this entire thread. Gaspipe certainly has some more explaining to do IMO. I am not sure there is anything he can post at this point to regain his standing. The thing that I would hate to see is that some great members here getting upset with each other over some shenanigans that gaspipe is responsible for. Members on this forum have shared some incredible amount of knowledge. I would hate to see gaspipe be the reason for some great members leaving this forum, be it on their on volition or getting banned . If anyone needs to pay the price it is gaspipe for his actions.
Well said JB about our members. In regards to Gaspipe explaining anything at this point....I really don't want to hear any excuses. He could easily come up with the kids been in the hospital for 18 days, father passed away, hurricane left him homeless for 3 weeks and Quarantined with COVID and try to divide many on this board due to sympathy. The EBAY message is all I can see. That's it. It's even dated and time stamped. Nothing else matters whatsoever. People are not who we think they are. It's sad; but many times very true. How about the auction house.....are they completely on the up and up. They obviously knew the packs were crap as to not allow Steve access. The AH is not a saint in this whole thing either. They sound crooked.
The 5/5 eBay message is after gaspipe found out the boxes were bad from Steve but before the auction house had agreed to refund his money. Sadly, trying to cheat another person when you know the box failed authentication reveals true character. Unfortunately in life, you really can't judge a person's character until "real money to them" decisions are on the line. That is when people reveal who they are. Gaspipe failed pretty miserably. Doesn't mean he is scum of the earth, just means when things were looking terrible for him, he was willing to defraud someone else. It is very similar to not knowing who your real friends are until you hit rock bottom and see who stuck with you. Hopefully, he learns from this experience and emerges a better person. Unfortunately, most people end up justifying their actions in their own minds rather than taking a look in the mirror and changing for the better.
Robb
well said Fergie, well said. I've kept quiet, because I have no idea what to say, but you did it for me.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
All I here over and over on these boards is "DO NOT BUY ANY UNOPENED UNLESS VERIFIED BY BBCE". DO NOT. DO NOT. Now a known member , not only buys unopened , but turns around and tries to sell it? And knowing it could be or has been searched? Shame on you.
Having re read the thread, the timeline is a little clearer to me now.
I will defer to the opinions and comments of the more veteran members here who deal with unopened specifically as it’s not my arena.
Good luck in the hunt.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I think we've gotten off course here.
At this point, we can say the following with confidence:
1.) Gaspipe intended to deceive while selling these products on eBay (see: eBay private message and his own given timeline)
2.) Gaspipe has been given an abundance of time to address the still lingering and rather direct questions that are still out there and so it can be inferred he has no intention of being transparent or honest about those. Waiting for a response or continuously asking the same questions seems like unneeded traffic. I believe we have enough to make a definitive decision about Gaspipe's character and actions.
3.) Post counts and/or member duration do not equate to character. We've had long-standing members run elaborate scams on our members here.
4.) An effort should probably be made to accumulate as many scans/images of all of these products and house them here in this thread as they will almost certainly resurface in the future.
Arthur
A good, succinct summary, Arthur. Thank you for that.
At this point the same issues have been pretty well addressed. Let's try to reserve further posts for new/relevant information and skip further rehashing of issues already addressed.
Please leave GASPIPE alone. If it wasn't for him rushing his items to be authenticated this mess would have been MUCH WORSE than it already is. I was a buyer of this auction and if it wasn't for Gaspipe I would have never been able to get my refund. I'm thankful for him and this hobby needs more GOOD guys. Gaspipe explained himself and now we need to focus on these items being opened or destroyed and spreading awareness on these items. This was a professional job and had been planned for many years. I don't get duped often but these items passed my tests as well. Everyone be good, be well and God Bless.
This thread should be a new Netflix series.
Or the two 'new people' who show up out of nowhere to chime in could just have their own show to chronicle their journey to this thread.
It's the most interesting thread I've read here so far.
did you read the thread? if so, then enough said.
perhaps stop to consider that by informing you, that he was also helping himself bc he'd know there would be more pressure to the auction house to accept his returns.
him letting you know, helps himself and in no way wipes the slate clean for what he pulled after he DID know they were bogus. he let you know so you would threaten police interaction, cause stink with and apply more pressure to auction house to ensure a quick and speedy refund to him. you weren't so much as helped as you were used.
one final question for you to ponder...
after he did inform you, did you still leave any ebay offerings listed, follow thru with any existing sales or send messages attempting to sway a potential buyer into following thru w a purchase?
a simple "yes" or "no" answer will suffice. 😉