@brad31 said:
Most companies incorporate in Delaware. Auction house may or may not be part of the problem - but I don’t think incorporating in Delaware matters.
Thanks for the info. I was actually getting ready to start my own company, I will now look into Delaware.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Cakes, I incorporated my IT consulting company in Delaware, super easy to do. I used Harvard Business Services (delawareinc.com) when I registered in 2008. You will still need to register in the state your business is headquartered in and most likely the county as well. I learned the hard way that that, at least in Virginia, the county wants its pound of flesh as well.
All my companies have been incorporated in Delaware as well.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
delaware currently has nearly 2 million businesses incorporated there vs only 1 million actual residents. as with taxes and the game of golf, use the rules to your advantage. there are many specifically written for you to take full advantage and/or to specifically avoid penalties. no one is certainly going to make you use them accordingly.
@fergie23 said:
Cakes, I incorporated my IT consulting company in Delaware, super easy to do. I used Harvard Business Services (delawareinc.com) when I registered in 2008. You will still need to register in the state your business is headquartered in and most likely the county as well. I learned the hard way that that, at least in Virginia, the county wants its pound of flesh as well.
Robb
Fergie, I am in Northern VA. I might need to to ask a few more questions down the road if you don't mind.
Much appreciated!
BC
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I wanted to respond to this thread so I joined this website to give a little more perspective on everything that I know about the Delaware auction.
Two weeks ago I went to the BBCE to pick up some 1982 and 1983 Wax Boxes that I had authenticated by Steve Hart. While I was in the store, Steve came out from the back and we talked for about 20 to 25 minutes. I picked his brain about the industry and how things were going from both a collector's perspective and his perspective as a dealer and authenticator. As we talked, Steve mentioned to me the Unopened Wax auction that took place in Delaware and asked if I had heard about it. After telling him no, he proceeded to tell me everything that had happened and gave his thoughts on the cards.
I can verify that almost everything stated here about the auction and Steve's thoughts are 100 percent absolutely true. Steve told me every box that had come in his store that he'd inspected were faked. He called them "garbage" multiple times. Steve said the fakers did a much better job than some had in the past, but there were still some tell signs once he got them under his lamp in the back. He said some of them looked remarkably well, almost perfect, but in the end they were all fakes. He did say a couple were so good that others might think differently but that he simply could not put his name on something he had any single question or concern about. Again, he called them garbage multiple times.
Steve shared with me some of the issues the packs had, and it's exactly what was mentioned in this thread earlier. It had something to do with the lines underneath and inside the packs not matching up properly. He said the fakers were the best he'd ever seen, too. Something else he said multiple times was that the auction house would not let him attend to inspect anything nor was an autograph authenticator that he knew allowed to look at the items for sale. Both were barred from attending, and that threw up major red flags for him.
In all, he told me he had checked 28 boxes from the auction and all 28 were fakes, garbage, crap. Steve was sincere in his thoughts and I could tell he wanted this information out there for the public and collectors like you and I to know. He doesn't want these things getting circulated into the hobby and he doesn't want collectors getting ripped off either. I have no reservation that he wouldn't mind me telling this story or attributing some of these remarks to him. Steve struck me as a very stand-up, straight forward guy that wants what's best for the hobby and that was his main and only interest.
If anyone has any questions, they can follow up here and I'll try to answer them or they can PM me and I'll respond back there. I just wanted to share that this entire thread with regards is 100 percent accurate.
I'm going to attach a couple of pictures of my cards that Steve authenticated just so you know I'm telling the truth. I had these boxes submitted in March and Steve had then done around May 20 or so. I picked them up two weeks ago.
@Mickey71 said:
1. Garbage/fakers did a much better job than some had in the past.
2. Garbage/some of them looked remarkably well, almost perfect.
3. Garbage/ a couple were so good that others might think differently.
4. Garbage/ the fakers were the best he'd ever seen, too.
Honestly.....to me the strangest ways to describe the packs and boxes. In the end they were garbage; but just seems like weird phrasing.
I'm taking it to mean that in totality it was clear this was a big scam job, BUT if only one or two of the "almost perfect" boxes were subbed outside of the auction context to BBCE, or another reputable authenticator like GAI, then they might mistakenly pass muster.
Kiss me once, shame on you. Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I think his point was probably that some were good enough to fool people who are decent at spotting fakes but not at expert level. Some of the packs were so bad that I had questions just looking at the poor quality and limited photos in the auctions. However, I can fully accept that some probably looked very good without a close up and detailed authentication.
It would be important to make this known so people aren't fooled into thinking that some of the packs/boxes might be good. They all should be ripped open and sold on the basis of the individual contents.
A lot of people are blind when money is concerned. Been reading the thread with interest but not chiming in as it seems the whole story still hasn't come out properly.
I was emailed that auction by someone with the funds to buy anything he wanted- and he was asking for my advice and willing to pay me ?? I said okay. So I did a basic business entity breakdown and search. I emailed my friend back so quickly I almost broke my fingers. Earned me $500 in free grading from that very rich friend just for telling him STAY AWAY He was going to spend an amount I don't care to get into on the boxes. The reward I got was for saving him countless hours of headache for doing nothing but listening .
Anyone in unopened- my personal fire alarm was at 5 Alarms
Christopher Hooper - if that was his real name- incorporated that business last year and renewed it again this year.
If this helps folks- see below. Those in unopened for years- bet you'd have freaked yourself just on the LAST name alone as it brings up some very, very sore spots for a lot of hobbyists to this day
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the moral of the story is when an unopened cache of this magnitude surfaces in the year 2021 with the delaware punch auction house, it's doing so for one of two reasons: 1) the consignor/auctioneer is an unscrupulous POS making a concerted effort to fly under the radar, or 2) the consignor has been taking a Rip Van Winkle-esque nap under a rock for like a decade and has no earthly idea where to turn to unload his/her stockpile in order to max out
since we can safely rule out the latter, that only leaves the former. so the next time someone allows dollar signs to zero out conventional wisdom, think long and hard about the road that gaspipe has traveled on.................no thank you very much
Christopher was born on 02.25.87. Christopher's age is 34. You may know Christopher by the names of Chris Hooper, Chris L Hooper, Chris E Hooper. Christopher is a resident of Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6731. We found one company that listed this address in its corporate registration documents — Roger L Hooper. Lisa A Hooper, Roger L Hooper, and three other persons spent some time in this place. (717) XXX-XXXX is Christopher's phone number. Lisa A Hooper, Roger L Hooper, Stephanie A Hooper, Christina L Mcfarland, Roger L Hooper were identified as possible owners of the phone number (717) XXX-XXX
@backbidder said:
Christopher was born on 02.25.87. Christopher's age is 34. You may know Christopher by the names of Chris Hooper, Chris L Hooper, Chris E Hooper. Christopher is a resident of Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6731. We found one company that listed this address in its corporate registration documents — Roger L Hooper. Lisa A Hooper, Roger L Hooper, and three other persons spent some time in this place. (717) XXX-XXXX is Christopher's phone number. Lisa A Hooper, Roger L Hooper, Stephanie A Hooper, Christina L Mcfarland, Roger L Hooper were identified as possible owners of the phone number (717) XXX-XXXX. .
I have made a couple of edits here. I am ok with identifying this individual and giving some general location info just so people can make informed future decisions, but I am going to draw the line at personal phone numbers, addresses and other points of contact.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
Wow - wondering if people really got their money back after this bombshell. We are lucky to have sources of information like this and some of the other message boards. Really disgusting what people do to take advantage of collectors in this hobby.
@gemint said:
I think his point was probably that some were good enough to fool people who are decent at spotting fakes but not at expert level. Some of the packs were so bad that I had questions just looking at the poor quality and limited photos in the auctions. However, I can fully accept that some probably looked very good without a close up and detailed authentication.
It would be important to make this known so people aren't fooled into thinking that some of the packs/boxes might be good. They all should be ripped open and sold on the basis of the individual contents.
Very interesting with the connection of the father /son combo. But I am surprised that it took this board so long to make the connection. With all the experts and private investigators on here, I would have figured this would have popped up earlier. Very interesting and well done to those who made the connection and links.
@Mickey71 said:
1. Garbage/fakers did a much better job than some had in the past.
2. Garbage/some of them looked remarkably well, almost perfect.
3. Garbage/ a couple were so good that others might think differently.
4. Garbage/ the fakers were the best he'd ever seen, too.
Honestly.....to me the strangest ways to describe the packs and boxes. In the end they were garbage; but just seems like weird phrasing.
Well, if you bought a new Porsche only to discover that it didn’t have an engine under the hood, you’d probably call it garbage. I think it’s just the passion of one of the leaders of the hobby who knows how devastating it would be to the hobby if counterfeiters ever were able to fool the experts to the point where the integrity of the grading process was compromised.
Also not sure if it’s been mentioned before but the entire auction and the results are nowhere to be found on his website.
Can anyone more knowledgeable give me an idea of the difference in what they could get just selling the stuff they have and being upfront about it vs what they tried to do here?
@Mcvillagehtx said:
Can anyone more knowledgeable give me an idea of the difference in what they could get just selling the stuff they have and being upfront about it vs what they tried to do here?
why would one even ponder this? even if they did fully describe thats its completely fake or “for display purposes only” does not mean the people who bought it for pennies on the dollar wouldnt attempt to sell it for years or decades down the road as legit.
hopefully it all gets seized and given to youth sports programs. similar to what they did w the operation bullpen bats, balls, gear.
Hopefully this has been forwarded to the authorities. This is someone who is a repeat offender committing 7 figure interstate fraud. If that doesn't result in years of imprisonment, I don't know what warrants it. They certainly cannot play dumb about the authenticity of what they were hawking.
@Mcvillagehtx said:
Can anyone more knowledgeable give me an idea of the difference in what they could get just selling the stuff they have and being upfront about it vs what they tried to do here?
why would one even ponder this? even if they did fully describe thats its completely fake or “for display purposes only” does not mean the people who bought it for pennies on the dollar wouldnt attempt to sell it for years or decades down the road as legit.
hopefully it all gets seized and given to youth sports programs. similar to what they did w the operation bullpen bats, balls, gear.
They are not counterfeit cards. Not counterfeit wrappers. Not counterfeit boxes.
I'm talking about just selling empty boxes, empty wrappers and hundreds of thousands of vintage cards.
@Mcvillagehtx said:
Can anyone more knowledgeable give me an idea of the difference in what they could get just selling the stuff they have and being upfront about it vs what they tried to do here?
why would one even ponder this? even if they did fully describe thats its completely fake or “for display purposes only” does not mean the people who bought it for pennies on the dollar wouldnt attempt to sell it for years or decades down the road as legit.
hopefully it all gets seized and given to youth sports programs. similar to what they did w the operation bullpen bats, balls, gear.
They are not counterfeit cards. Not counterfeit wrappers. Not counterfeit boxes.
I'm talking about just selling empty boxes, empty wrappers and hundreds of thousands of vintage cards.
You didn't make this distinction in your original post. If the boxes or packs are still sealed, it would be a really bad move and possibly illegal. I'm not sure how the fraud laws work but you wouldn't be able to sell stolen goods as long as you disclose they are stolen so I don't know why you would be able to sell fraudulent goods as long as you disclose they are fraudulent.
If you ripped all the packs open and want to sell the cards and empty box and empty wrappers, this should be legally fine. It's pretty frowned upon by a large contingency in the hobby since it's basically a DIY build a fake box kit but people sell wrappers and empty boxes and lots of cards individually all the time. Selling the wrappers (in a full box lot) is a little wishy-washy but no one is going to toss you off the message board tower.
It all boils down to what you feel comfortable doing. I would continue to pursue restitution through legal means and just try to get my purchase price refunded.
@Mcvillagehtx said:
Can anyone more knowledgeable give me an idea of the difference in what they could get just selling the stuff they have and being upfront about it vs what they tried to do here?
why would one even ponder this? even if they did fully describe thats its completely fake or “for display purposes only” does not mean the people who bought it for pennies on the dollar wouldnt attempt to sell it for years or decades down the road as legit.
hopefully it all gets seized and given to youth sports programs. similar to what they did w the operation bullpen bats, balls, gear.
They are not counterfeit cards. Not counterfeit wrappers. Not counterfeit boxes.
I'm talking about just selling empty boxes, empty wrappers and hundreds of thousands of vintage cards.
You didn't make this distinction in your original post. If the boxes or packs are still sealed, it would be a really bad move and possibly illegal. I'm not sure how the fraud laws work but you wouldn't be able to sell stolen goods as long as you disclose they are stolen so I don't know why you would be able to sell fraudulent goods as long as you disclose they are fraudulent.
If you ripped all the packs open and want to sell the cards and empty box and empty wrappers, this should be legally fine. It's pretty frowned upon by a large contingency in the hobby since it's basically a DIY build a fake box kit but people sell wrappers and empty boxes and lots of cards individually all the time. Selling the wrappers (in a full box lot) is a little wishy-washy but no one is going to toss you off the message board tower.
It all boils down to what you feel comfortable doing. I would continue to pursue restitution through legal means and just try to get my purchase price refunded.
Arthur
I don't want to, nor have the money, to do any of the above.
I was just trying to have a thought experiment about what if he had just listed it all legitimately as what they are. Cards, wrappers and boxes.
The auction house will not get in trouble. They will play dumb. I'm thinking as long as they refund they will be okay. I honestly think FEDS don't care about this type of stuff. They simply don't have the knowledge or manpower to send a million agents in investigate huckleberry hounds auction house. I mean there is supposedly an investigation against a Oregon consignor and there is actual proof that all of us have viewed....it appears nothing has come of that.
@Mickey71 said:
The auction house will not get in trouble. They will play dumb. I'm thinking as long as they refund they will be okay. I honestly think FEDS don't care about this type of stuff. They simply don't have the knowledge or manpower to send a million agents in investigate huckleberry hounds auction house. I mean there is supposedly an investigation against a Oregon consignor and there is actual proof that all of us have viewed....it appears nothing has come of that.
Couldn’t agree more. Not even a quorum on this board that will no longer do business with them.
Problem here is that the owner/operator of the AH is the same person/family that created all this fake garbage and tried to sell it. I'd bet that AH isn't going to be staying in business using the same name/location much longer... hopefully they give up on this route of fraud altogether.
@Mickey71 said:
1. Garbage/fakers did a much better job than some had in the past.
2. Garbage/some of them looked remarkably well, almost perfect.
3. Garbage/ a couple were so good that others might think differently.
4. Garbage/ the fakers were the best he'd ever seen, too.
Honestly.....to me the strangest ways to describe the packs and boxes. In the end they were garbage; but just seems like weird phrasing.
I would agree. To me "garbage" implies that the fakes were really obvious and sloppily done, not "some of them looked remarkably well", etc.
I took it as garbage as in they were resealed/manipulated regardless of how well or poor. That's the way he was expressing himself.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
I took it as garbage as in they were resealed/manipulated regardless of how well or poor. That's the way he was expressing himself.
m
Correct
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@Mickey71 said:
The auction house will not get in trouble. They will play dumb. I'm thinking as long as they refund they will be okay. I honestly think FEDS don't care about this type of stuff. They simply don't have the knowledge or manpower to send a million agents in investigate huckleberry hounds auction house. I mean there is supposedly an investigation against a Oregon consignor and there is actual proof that all of us have viewed....it appears nothing has come of that.
I'm not sure that I agree with this. If they didn't know it was all bad why they refuse to let BBCE see or bid on anything? Didn't someone mention that they also refused to let an autograph expert bid?
@Mickey71 said:
The auction house will not get in trouble. They will play dumb. I'm thinking as long as they refund they will be okay. I honestly think FEDS don't care about this type of stuff. They simply don't have the knowledge or manpower to send a million agents in investigate huckleberry hounds auction house. I mean there is supposedly an investigation against a Oregon consignor and there is actual proof that all of us have viewed....it appears nothing has come of that.
I'm not sure that I agree with this. If they didn't know it was all bad why they refuse to let BBCE see or bid on anything? Didn't someone mention that they also refused to let an autograph expert bid?
The fact that an individual with the last name of Hooper is the registered business owner of this auction house (see above post) is all anyone really needs to know.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Yes, once Hooper was identified as the owner, that said it all. They were arrested previously for selling resealed GARBAGE and they got caught doing it again only this time on a huge scale. They should be doing hard time after this stunt.
@gemint said:
Yes, once Hooper was identified as the owner, that said it all. They were arrested previously for selling resealed GARBAGE and they got caught doing it again only this time on a huge scale. They should be doing hard time after this stunt.
Yes, I agree with what should happen. I just do not think it will happen.
Comments
Most companies incorporate in Delaware. Auction house may or may not be part of the problem - but I don’t think incorporating in Delaware matters.
What a read.
Thanks for the info. I was actually getting ready to start my own company, I will now look into Delaware.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Cakes, I incorporated my IT consulting company in Delaware, super easy to do. I used Harvard Business Services (delawareinc.com) when I registered in 2008. You will still need to register in the state your business is headquartered in and most likely the county as well. I learned the hard way that that, at least in Virginia, the county wants its pound of flesh as well.
Robb
All my companies have been incorporated in Delaware as well.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I don’t have a company but it sounds like Delaware is the spot
delaware currently has nearly 2 million businesses incorporated there vs only 1 million actual residents. as with taxes and the game of golf, use the rules to your advantage. there are many specifically written for you to take full advantage and/or to specifically avoid penalties. no one is certainly going to make you use them accordingly.
Fergie, I am in Northern VA. I might need to to ask a few more questions down the road if you don't mind.
Much appreciated!
BC
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I wanted to respond to this thread so I joined this website to give a little more perspective on everything that I know about the Delaware auction.
Two weeks ago I went to the BBCE to pick up some 1982 and 1983 Wax Boxes that I had authenticated by Steve Hart. While I was in the store, Steve came out from the back and we talked for about 20 to 25 minutes. I picked his brain about the industry and how things were going from both a collector's perspective and his perspective as a dealer and authenticator. As we talked, Steve mentioned to me the Unopened Wax auction that took place in Delaware and asked if I had heard about it. After telling him no, he proceeded to tell me everything that had happened and gave his thoughts on the cards.
I can verify that almost everything stated here about the auction and Steve's thoughts are 100 percent absolutely true. Steve told me every box that had come in his store that he'd inspected were faked. He called them "garbage" multiple times. Steve said the fakers did a much better job than some had in the past, but there were still some tell signs once he got them under his lamp in the back. He said some of them looked remarkably well, almost perfect, but in the end they were all fakes. He did say a couple were so good that others might think differently but that he simply could not put his name on something he had any single question or concern about. Again, he called them garbage multiple times.
Steve shared with me some of the issues the packs had, and it's exactly what was mentioned in this thread earlier. It had something to do with the lines underneath and inside the packs not matching up properly. He said the fakers were the best he'd ever seen, too. Something else he said multiple times was that the auction house would not let him attend to inspect anything nor was an autograph authenticator that he knew allowed to look at the items for sale. Both were barred from attending, and that threw up major red flags for him.
In all, he told me he had checked 28 boxes from the auction and all 28 were fakes, garbage, crap. Steve was sincere in his thoughts and I could tell he wanted this information out there for the public and collectors like you and I to know. He doesn't want these things getting circulated into the hobby and he doesn't want collectors getting ripped off either. I have no reservation that he wouldn't mind me telling this story or attributing some of these remarks to him. Steve struck me as a very stand-up, straight forward guy that wants what's best for the hobby and that was his main and only interest.
If anyone has any questions, they can follow up here and I'll try to answer them or they can PM me and I'll respond back there. I just wanted to share that this entire thread with regards is 100 percent accurate.
I'm going to attach a couple of pictures of my cards that Steve authenticated just so you know I'm telling the truth. I had these boxes submitted in March and Steve had then done around May 20 or so. I picked them up two weeks ago.
Honestly.....to me the strangest ways to describe the packs and boxes. In the end they were garbage; but just seems like weird phrasing.
Bbce should VIN the material it authenticates. Would be very useful.
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
I'm taking it to mean that in totality it was clear this was a big scam job, BUT if only one or two of the "almost perfect" boxes were subbed outside of the auction context to BBCE, or another reputable authenticator like GAI, then they might mistakenly pass muster.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I think his point was probably that some were good enough to fool people who are decent at spotting fakes but not at expert level. Some of the packs were so bad that I had questions just looking at the poor quality and limited photos in the auctions. However, I can fully accept that some probably looked very good without a close up and detailed authentication.
It would be important to make this known so people aren't fooled into thinking that some of the packs/boxes might be good. They all should be ripped open and sold on the basis of the individual contents.
A lot of people are blind when money is concerned. Been reading the thread with interest but not chiming in as it seems the whole story still hasn't come out properly.
I was emailed that auction by someone with the funds to buy anything he wanted- and he was asking for my advice and willing to pay me ?? I said okay. So I did a basic business entity breakdown and search. I emailed my friend back so quickly I almost broke my fingers. Earned me $500 in free grading from that very rich friend just for telling him STAY AWAY He was going to spend an amount I don't care to get into on the boxes. The reward I got was for saving him countless hours of headache for doing nothing but listening .
Anyone in unopened- my personal fire alarm was at 5 Alarms
Christopher Hooper - if that was his real name- incorporated that business last year and renewed it again this year.
If this helps folks- see below. Those in unopened for years- bet you'd have freaked yourself just on the LAST name alone as it brings up some very, very sore spots for a lot of hobbyists to this day
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Roger f'ing Hooper... thanks for this info @jeffv96masters !
the moral of the story is when an unopened cache of this magnitude surfaces in the year 2021 with the delaware punch auction house, it's doing so for one of two reasons: 1) the consignor/auctioneer is an unscrupulous POS making a concerted effort to fly under the radar, or 2) the consignor has been taking a Rip Van Winkle-esque nap under a rock for like a decade and has no earthly idea where to turn to unload his/her stockpile in order to max out
since we can safely rule out the latter, that only leaves the former. so the next time someone allows dollar signs to zero out conventional wisdom, think long and hard about the road that gaspipe has traveled on.................no thank you very much
woulda thought the previous trial, jail time, $150k in fines and restitution woulda taught him a lesson.
im wondering if christopher is one of his sons? i know he taught and used them to peddle some of his fake stuff years back...
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/dealers-son-has-day-in-court/
Christopher was born on 02.25.87. Christopher's age is 34. You may know Christopher by the names of Chris Hooper, Chris L Hooper, Chris E Hooper. Christopher is a resident of Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6731. We found one company that listed this address in its corporate registration documents — Roger L Hooper. Lisa A Hooper, Roger L Hooper, and three other persons spent some time in this place. (717) XXX-XXXX is Christopher's phone number. Lisa A Hooper, Roger L Hooper, Stephanie A Hooper, Christina L Mcfarland, Roger L Hooper were identified as possible owners of the phone number (717) XXX-XXX
https://clustrmaps.com/person/Hooper-anc4al
boom goes the dynamite. but extremely sad. a father teaching his son this crap.
I have made a couple of edits here. I am ok with identifying this individual and giving some general location info just so people can make informed future decisions, but I am going to draw the line at personal phone numbers, addresses and other points of contact.
Wow - wondering if people really got their money back after this bombshell. We are lucky to have sources of information like this and some of the other message boards. Really disgusting what people do to take advantage of collectors in this hobby.
Yes
Very interesting with the connection of the father /son combo. But I am surprised that it took this board so long to make the connection. With all the experts and private investigators on here, I would have figured this would have popped up earlier. Very interesting and well done to those who made the connection and links.
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Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Well, if you bought a new Porsche only to discover that it didn’t have an engine under the hood, you’d probably call it garbage. I think it’s just the passion of one of the leaders of the hobby who knows how devastating it would be to the hobby if counterfeiters ever were able to fool the experts to the point where the integrity of the grading process was compromised.
Also not sure if it’s been mentioned before but the entire auction and the results are nowhere to be found on his website.
Disgraceful.
Yup, but images can still be found.
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2000-452.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2000-453.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2000-454.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/1000-808.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/1000-359.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/1000-297.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/seashorehwyaac.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/1000-299.jpg
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
Can anyone more knowledgeable give me an idea of the difference in what they could get just selling the stuff they have and being upfront about it vs what they tried to do here?
why would one even ponder this? even if they did fully describe thats its completely fake or “for display purposes only” does not mean the people who bought it for pennies on the dollar wouldnt attempt to sell it for years or decades down the road as legit.
hopefully it all gets seized and given to youth sports programs. similar to what they did w the operation bullpen bats, balls, gear.
Hopefully this has been forwarded to the authorities. This is someone who is a repeat offender committing 7 figure interstate fraud. If that doesn't result in years of imprisonment, I don't know what warrants it. They certainly cannot play dumb about the authenticity of what they were hawking.
Avoided criminal charges back in 2009. Apparently he didn't learn his lesson. I hope the judge throws the book at him this time.
They are not counterfeit cards. Not counterfeit wrappers. Not counterfeit boxes.
I'm talking about just selling empty boxes, empty wrappers and hundreds of thousands of vintage cards.
You didn't make this distinction in your original post. If the boxes or packs are still sealed, it would be a really bad move and possibly illegal. I'm not sure how the fraud laws work but you wouldn't be able to sell stolen goods as long as you disclose they are stolen so I don't know why you would be able to sell fraudulent goods as long as you disclose they are fraudulent.
If you ripped all the packs open and want to sell the cards and empty box and empty wrappers, this should be legally fine. It's pretty frowned upon by a large contingency in the hobby since it's basically a DIY build a fake box kit but people sell wrappers and empty boxes and lots of cards individually all the time. Selling the wrappers (in a full box lot) is a little wishy-washy but no one is going to toss you off the message board tower.
It all boils down to what you feel comfortable doing. I would continue to pursue restitution through legal means and just try to get my purchase price refunded.
Arthur
I don't want to, nor have the money, to do any of the above.
I was just trying to have a thought experiment about what if he had just listed it all legitimately as what they are. Cards, wrappers and boxes.
The auction house will not get in trouble. They will play dumb. I'm thinking as long as they refund they will be okay. I honestly think FEDS don't care about this type of stuff. They simply don't have the knowledge or manpower to send a million agents in investigate huckleberry hounds auction house. I mean there is supposedly an investigation against a Oregon consignor and there is actual proof that all of us have viewed....it appears nothing has come of that.
Couldn’t agree more. Not even a quorum on this board that will no longer do business with them.
Problem here is that the owner/operator of the AH is the same person/family that created all this fake garbage and tried to sell it. I'd bet that AH isn't going to be staying in business using the same name/location much longer... hopefully they give up on this route of fraud altogether.
I would agree. To me "garbage" implies that the fakes were really obvious and sloppily done, not "some of them looked remarkably well", etc.
I took it as garbage as in they were resealed/manipulated regardless of how well or poor. That's the way he was expressing himself.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Correct
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
thsnk you r> @Justacommeman said:
yea, but this garbage looked gooooood! 😉
(so its still garbage though, right?)
I'm not sure that I agree with this. If they didn't know it was all bad why they refuse to let BBCE see or bid on anything? Didn't someone mention that they also refused to let an autograph expert bid?
The fact that an individual with the last name of Hooper is the registered business owner of this auction house (see above post) is all anyone really needs to know.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Yes, once Hooper was identified as the owner, that said it all. They were arrested previously for selling resealed GARBAGE and they got caught doing it again only this time on a huge scale. They should be doing hard time after this stunt.
Yes, I agree with what should happen. I just do not think it will happen.