New Safety Deposit Box regulations?
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
My mother has a SDB at a Chase branch with one of my siblings as co-signers. Last week they got a letter outlining a number of changes to the lease agreement, including this:
"Contents of the box: You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."
Another change is that signatures will no longer be accepted to access the box. The next time they go in they have to bring two forms of ID and they will be issued a four-digit pin number that will be used to access the box then and in the future.
Is this just Chase, or is it some new federal requirement?
"Contents of the box: You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."
Another change is that signatures will no longer be accepted to access the box. The next time they go in they have to bring two forms of ID and they will be issued a four-digit pin number that will be used to access the box then and in the future.
Is this just Chase, or is it some new federal requirement?
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<< <i>My mother has a SDB at a Chase branch with one of my siblings as co-signers. Last week they got a letter outlining a number of changes to the lease agreement, including this:
"Contents of the box: You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."
Another change is that signatures will no longer be accepted to access the box. The next time they go in they have to bring two forms of ID and they will be issued a four-digit pin number that will be used to access the box then and in the future.
Is this just Chase, or is it some new federal requirement? >>
No more key? I wouldn't trust a lock with only a four digit pin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>They won't allow bullion or cash? Wasn't that the reason for safe deposit boxes in the first place? You have to ask yourself, "what's the agenda this time around?" >>
I'm guessing it's some kind of restriction aimed at money launderers and drug dealers. It's hard to collect taxes from the "underground economy" which is mostly based on cash transactions.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Should not affect bullion. As I read it they do not want people hoarding just plain cash.
How they will know, I have no idea.
<< <i>
<< <i>They won't allow bullion or cash? Wasn't that the reason for safe deposit boxes in the first place? You have to ask yourself, "what's the agenda this time around?" >>
I'm guessing it's some kind of restriction aimed at money launderers and drug dealers. It's hard to collect taxes from the "underground economy" which is mostly based on cash transactions. >>
<< <i>I don't think they are getting rid of the keys. For one thing they would have to physically change the boxes. I assume that the PIN will be used to access the box rather than a signature, but how the PIN will be entered I have no idea.
Should not affect bullion. As I read it they do not want people hoarding just plain cash.
How they will know, I have no idea. >>
Security camera/s?
And then, there's the tax thing as usual.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Maybe they figure that since deposits will be paying low or no interest, the only way to drive money into the economy is to make it riskier to keep it stashed away and "out of the system".
And then, there's the tax thing as usual. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>My mother has a SDB at a Chase branch with one of my siblings as co-signers. Last week they got a letter outlining a number of changes to the lease agreement, including this:
"Contents of the box: You agree not to store any cash or coins other than those found to have a collectible value."
Another change is that signatures will no longer be accepted to access the box. The next time they go in they have to bring two forms of ID and they will be issued a four-digit pin number that will be used to access the box then and in the future.
Is this just Chase, or is it some new federal requirement? >>
No more key? I wouldn't trust a lock with only a four digit pin. >>
You probably have to enter it with a keyboard. Register on their intraweb site.
<< <i>
<< <i>They won't allow bullion or cash? Wasn't that the reason for safe deposit boxes in the first place? You have to ask yourself, "what's the agenda this time around?" >>
I'm guessing it's some kind of restriction aimed at money launderers and drug dealers. It's hard to collect taxes from the "underground economy" which is mostly based on cash transactions. >>
They will probably be on the lookout for cash withdrawals from your regular checking or savings accounts if you have direct deposit of wages.
See the June 18, 2007 post "Bank Safe Deposit Box won't allow coins to be stored"
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=592184
The bank in the post is now owned by Chase.
The PIN numbers are new and for signing in, the box is still accessed with the traditional key.
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My SDBs all require a 1) Key, 2) Photo ID, and 3) signature each time you wish to access the box.
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If it's in "hiding" because it's a "cash position", well there's your answer. You bet the FED and IRS want accounting of the cash. It was made for commerce for the most part. The TREASURES are treasured and the government isn't going after peoples' "treasures". The U.S. Treasury has mandates for the nations' money.
I think banks are regulated by government with checks and balances as much as "WE THE PEOPLE" are kept in checks with balances.
If you don't understand me, don't fret. I just pay attention to being obedient in our system. Works for me. I work for it. Slaves to society. Put the Big Boy Pants on, kids.
Pay your taxes. Save for a rainy day. A penny saved is a penny earned. A penny invested is a dollar earned. A penny hoarded is a penny just the same.
I believe banks are obligated to report cash being held in a SDB, if they are aware of it. And Chase's demand that customers not stash their cash sounds mostly like a warning to their customers not to let any bank employees see the contents.
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"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>In the event of a disaster, they will not honor claims for cash.... so it is 'uninsured' storage, should you choose to keep cash. Plus, the above, no profit in cash stored in SDB's... Cheers, RickO >>
Insurance for safe deposit boxes is already a murky area. This is the bank's way of stating that
they have no liability. I seem to recall that Chase differentiates between "collectible coins" and "bullion coins."
<< <i>Thanks for the heads-up !!! :-) >>
Agreed!
Just another reason not to trust the banks, in my opinion!
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<< <i>Since there's no practical way to enforce the rule, there's no reason to expect actual compliance, so something else must be going on.
I believe banks are obligated to report cash being held in a SDB, if they are aware of it. And Chase's demand that customers not stash their cash sounds mostly like a warning to their customers not to let any bank employees see the contents. >>
AHA!
That may explain the new procedure my credit union has implemented.
EVERYTHING in my box is in PCGS blue boxes. NOTHING is visibly identifiable.
Even the bullion.
BUT....this year they are INSISTING that I take the box into the "little room."
It's a hassle as it is so heavy and ONE of their employees once DROPPED the box and one of the blue boxes scattered 1 oz golds all over the vault.
That's a "CLOSE THE VAULT" situation.
I objected to their new policy as it takes me appx. 4 seconds to stash or grab a blue box and drop the lid.
But now I can see where COMPLETE secrecy is gonna be to MY benefit.
Damn government. If ....they....didn't mismanage the monetary policies, we wouldn't even have to think about dealing with the "accomodation."
(I do tell the employee who lets me into the box to stand outside the lil room as I will be BACK OUT in 7 seconds or less.
In the movies during the getaway they go get their passport and cash from the SDB.
You can get your cash from your account during the same hours the bank is open.
If there is a disaster, you won't be able to get cash from the bank or have access to your safe deposit box.
Unless your cash comes from underground financial transactions I don't see any reason to store it in a SDB.
From Money Metals Market Update via email today.
Cash Is No Longer "King"… It's a Criminal Suspect
Cash was king. These days, it is more of a headache than it is royalty.
When it comes to larger purchases, the advantages once conferred by carrying a wad of green stuff in your wallet are all but gone. Justice Department officials in the U.S. (and officials elsewhere) are ratcheting up their decades-long war on cash. To hear them tell it, cash is mostly useful for terrorists and low-down criminals. Your use of any significant amount of cash can now make you guilty in the eyes of the law until you prove the transaction was legitimate.
Maybe you can persuade your bank teller. Attempt to withdraw or deposit a few thousand dollars in cash, and you’ll likely get the chance. Expect questioning about the purpose of the cash. If you answer with “it isn’t any of your business” or something equally unsatisfactory, then you will be inviting her to file a Suspicious Activity Report. Banks and a select group of other businesses filed more than 1.6 million of them in 2013.
Or, the teller might decide to call the authorities right away. The head of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division, Leslie Caldwell, would certainly like to see banks drop a dime on customers more often. While speaking at the ACAMS Anti-Money Laundering and Financial Crime Conference on March 16th, she said:
“The vast majority of financial institutions file Suspicious Activity Reports when they suspect that an account is connected to nefarious activity. But, in appropriate cases, we encourage those institutions to consider whether to take more action: specifically, to alert law enforcement authorities about the problem, who may be able to seize the funds, initiate an investigation, or take other proactive steps.“
Caldwell’s statement hints at what is really an escalation of a decades-old policy of enlisting banks to rat out customers.
It started with the Bank Secrecy Act in 1970. The law required banks to report transactions of more than $10,000. If you have been into a bank trying to withdraw a few thousand in cash, you may have sensed banks aren’t encouraging that kind of activity. You likely encountered days of delay while the bank ordered cash and got funny looks and probing questions from tellers.
While the treatment you get from your bank may be awkward, there may be worse coming from the police. Authorities who find significant quantities of cash in your possession may assume the worst about you and seize your cash. Civil asset forfeiture is on the rise and no one with a badge has to convict you of a crime to take your belongings. Victims tend to be assumed guilty until proven innocent.
There was a time when offering cash put you in a strong bargaining position. Sellers appreciated having good funds and avoiding the fees associated with taking a payment by credit card.
Today, buyers and sellers using cash face increasing hassles, scrutiny, and risks. Add that to the perpetual inflation assaulting the purchasing power of whatever cash you hold -- and cash is anything but king.
<< <i>Why would you want to store cash in a SDB?
In the movies during the getaway they go get their passport and cash from the SDB.
You can get your cash from your account during the same hours the bank is open.
If there is a disaster, you won't be able to get cash from the bank or have access to your safe deposit box.
Unless your cash comes from underground financial transactions I don't see any reason to store it in a SDB. >>
I agree with you, with the exception of foreign currency.
Don't like the PIN replacing the signature, however.
<< <i>They won't allow bullion or cash? Wasn't that the reason for safe deposit boxes in the first place? You have to ask yourself, "what's the agenda this time around?" >>
They don't want anything stashed that they don't know about or can't go after. One more step towards their ultimate goal.. I guess they will have to go to a cashless system like they are already planning.
<< <i>there are no state or federal regulations concerning what can be stored in a safe deposit box. It is a contractual matter between the box renter and the institution that is renting out the box. Store what you wish, until something changes you are the only one that sees what goes in or out of the box. >>
+1
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The other major bank has a hand print scanner and the box number to be entered. That opens the inner glass vault door. You access your box with your key. The other slot for the banks key is plugged. This eliminates the need for a bank person to assist you. Asking at this bank about anything not allowed in the box, was told it's your box you can put in what you want.
Got quoins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Since there's no practical way to enforce the rule, there's no reason to expect actual compliance, so something else must be going on.
I believe banks are obligated to report cash being held in a SDB, if they are aware of it. And Chase's demand that customers not stash their cash sounds mostly like a warning to their customers not to let any bank employees see the contents. >>
Under the provisions of The Patriot Act, any financial institution providing service to an individual who is found in violation of clauses of the Patriot Act, is deemed EQUALLY CULPABLE to those violations. Even simple transactions, such as cash deposits of relatively minor amounts (i.e. $1,000) are reported by commercial banks AND credit unions to the IRS (which now falls under the Federal umbrella of the DHS), lest they be accused of aiding an individual in any form of money laundering.
In effect, financial institutions have been conscripted as agents of the government - like it or not it is the new world order.
Wilkum to Amerika, comrades.
OTOH, one can store any dang thing they want in their SDB, but if it violates the terms and provisions of the contract with the financial institution and that is discovered, one can fully expect civil action from the institution, above and beyond whatever Big Brother decides to heap on in criminal charges. Land of the free and home of the brave !
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Back to your regularly scheduled reading.
<< <i>
<< <i>Since there's no practical way to enforce the rule, there's no reason to expect actual compliance, so something else must be going on.
I believe banks are obligated to report cash being held in a SDB, if they are aware of it. And Chase's demand that customers not stash their cash sounds mostly like a warning to their customers not to let any bank employees see the contents. >>
Under the provisions of The Patriot Act, any financial institution providing service to an individual who is found in violation of clauses of the Patriot Act, is deemed EQUALLY CULPABLE to those violations. Even simple transactions, such as cash deposits of relatively minor amounts (i.e. $1,000) are reported by commercial banks AND credit unions to the IRS (which now falls under the Federal umbrella of the DHS), lest they be accused of aiding an individual in any form of money laundering.
In effect, financial institutions have been conscripted as agents of the government - like it or not it is the new world order.
Wilkum to Amerika, comrades.
OTOH, one can store any dang thing they want in their SDB, but if it violates the terms and provisions of the contract with the financial institution and that is discovered, one can fully expect civil action from the institution, above and beyond whatever Big Brother decides to heap on in criminal charges. Land of the free and home of the brave ! >>
I thought cash deposits of $5K or less are only recorded, but not reported.
A drawback to storing cash in a SDB is the possibility of access being frozen by court order.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>AHA!
>>
Why on earth are you storing "hot dogs" in your SDB??
The name is LEE!
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Many ways to think about this. The Reserve destroys millions of dollars a day. How do they know which bills they are destroying. Bills are numbered for a reason. When someone orders money from the bank the bills are logged into a system and sent out into the economy. These bills eventually return to the bank and sent to the Reserve to be destroyed, again these numbers are scanned and then destroyed. They know exactly how many bills and what denominations are missing in the economy. They just don't know where they are. New Bills can not be printed unless they have one to destroy....So there must be some really old bills out there unaccounted for and I am pretty sure most will not be in SDB's. Foreign banks, bills should be accounted for. I would have to say it is Laundering which they are searching for, if some Laundered money were to return into the economy it could be traced through individual banks. >>
How about the billions in cash that leave the country? Most of those aren't coming back.
<< <i>
<< <i>Many ways to think about this. The Reserve destroys millions of dollars a day. How do they know which bills they are destroying. Bills are numbered for a reason. When someone orders money from the bank the bills are logged into a system and sent out into the economy. These bills eventually return to the bank and sent to the Reserve to be destroyed, again these numbers are scanned and then destroyed. They know exactly how many bills and what denominations are missing in the economy. They just don't know where they are. New Bills can not be printed unless they have one to destroy....So there must be some really old bills out there unaccounted for and I am pretty sure most will not be in SDB's. Foreign banks, bills should be accounted for. I would have to say it is Laundering which they are searching for, if some Laundered money were to return into the economy it could be traced through individual banks. >>
How about the billions in cash that leave the country? Most of those aren't coming back. >>
What makes you think that the dollar remains hidden overseas? They do come back ... exchanged for than country's currency in hand with the Fed.
<< <i>There was a story on Yahoo awhile back about how $40 billion in cash [$100 bills] was flown to Baghdad for rebuilding after the war. A goodly part of it was never accounted for. It was quite the task to move it from the airport to the Bank of Baghdad which was downtown. How about all of the cash that the drug lords have? >>
The drug lord money is accounted for , the banks are laundering all of that quite openly.
<< <i>Drug money from what I have seen discovered on the News, has been buried underground in tunnels on skids. They sure will not be returned until found. $$$ taken from here by travelers probably will be kept foreign for exchanges of other currencies....To me it seems kind of fruitless, but maybe you never know maybe they will find some leads. I can see how a new money system could be of benefit to National Security and our money supply as a whole. >>
Cashless. Coming to a theater near you..
<< <i>
<< <i>Drug money from what I have seen discovered on the News, has been buried underground in tunnels on skids. They sure will not be returned until found. $$$ taken from here by travelers probably will be kept foreign for exchanges of other currencies....To me it seems kind of fruitless, but maybe you never know maybe they will find some leads. I can see how a new money system could be of benefit to National Security and our money supply as a whole. >>
Cashless. Coming to a theater near you..
Not likely either in mine or your lifetime. I've heard that now for over 30 years, and I agree that payments via a written check are a thing of the past. On the other hand, electronic, debit or credit card transactions are up considerably, but nothing will ever remove the good old $ from circulation.
Check-less society coming to a theater near you