<< <i>Still waiting on the postman.... should get here today or Monday....yeah, lottery odds are comparable, but fun to anticipate... Cheers, RickO >>
Same here, I spotted it on eBay nearly three weeks ago, waited for the auction to end, then for the seller to ship, now according to the USPS it's been sitting on a truck out of New Jersey for three days. If it doesn't show up Monday the suspense may kill me.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Hey Sean....I hope somebody finds one with a clip on it........
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I'd be surprised if you find more quickly - means it's not that rare. Some rare VAMs are known to take years before a second specimen is found. >>
I can shed a little light on some Mercury Dime Varieties in general...
There is a 1941 DDO FS-101 that has 4 examples known after a decade plus of searching, only one of which is in Mint State. It of course happens to be the toned MS65 example that I Cherrypicked raw for $45 and sold at auction for $1,750. Then there is a 1939-D/D FS-501 that only only has 5 examples attributed ATS...and I of course Cherrypicked that Top Pop (tied) in MS65FB in a SEGS 64FB holder, had it attributed and just auctioned it for $2,500 or something like that. And many others I have had success with in Cherrypicking the Top Pop and selling.
My point is there are MANY Mercury Dime Varieties that people have been searching for for over a decade and only a few are known....and these are later dates. For 1919, there are a lot fewer examples to search through (especially in higher grade due to wear and melting for a common date) which will create a challenge but this one has attracted a lot more attention so that will help. Maybe they will balance each other out and in a decade we might have a few to really evaluate.
As for the 1941 DDO, I feel it is rather significant, although not as significant as the 1919. Here are a couple of pics of mine that I sold.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The first step Mr. Gibbs gives to this being a success is "A lot of 'em are gonna have to be found" !!! So I am sending lucky vibes to everyone who is actively searching!
FYI - I update the first post with links as I find them on this story. If you find any others, send me a PM, I'll add them.
My best attempt at cherrypicking one is sitting in my mailbox at home right now, as soon as I can open it up and get a look I will post what I have.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Is there a smiley where it is holding it's breath? Lol >>
LOL, I read your post ATS, I hear you.
Then he tries to clarify his statement with the 1942/1 and 1942/1-D. Okay fine, I see what he is doing here, he should have originally said MAJOR REDBOOK varieties that bring a LOT of MONEY. But even the REDBOOK mentions a few that have large and small mintmarks and then there is the 1945 micro s.
I just read someone say there have been no errors on quarters since the Wisconsin Extra Leaf - when there have been over 100 Doubled Dies alone, let alone other "Errors" - I guess it all depends what you collect, and what you know and what you read as to what you consider an error.
You should write that book for sure - or at least put out an eBook.
Thanks. Lol, I did slam the CoinWorld video link a bit ATS. That's like me coming forward to post a video on a certain Indian Head Cent Variety! Ugh! I am an okay generalist and a very good Mercury Dime Variety specialist. I have no freaking place talking about Indian Head Cents and their varieties. That world belongs to Rick Snow and maybe just a few other people that have read everything Rick Snow has written and then collected/dealt in them seriously. Stuff like that video just screams...I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE...to those that actually do have a clue and then because he has a platform, he dumbs down the general coin collector base. The number of errors in many other variety books are just too many to count.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Can anyone WAG on the value of the 2 specimens found? Yeah, maybe a little too early, I know. Maybe the holders of the coins can give us a range on some offers they undoubtedly have received.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Can anyone WAG on the value of the 2 specimens found? Yeah, maybe a little too early, I know. Maybe the holders of the coins can give us a range on some offers they undoubtedly have received. >>
Absolutely PURE speculation as there are only 2 known right now.
Mine is a F-12 or maybe Fine details with some damage on the reverse (It made it to ANACS today, we'll see) #2 is a cleaned XF that is coming back from conservation right now, so not sure how that will be valued.
If ~250 or so of these Mercs get found, I do not believe values will hold even to the 16/16
But if only 50 or 100 or so of these are found, I don't see why values would be too far off of the 16/16
But... right now, with only a few known, and the "Newness" factor, I can tell you my offers are right near 16/16 pricing 8-) Maybe a little extra for being the "Discovery" coin, but I won't get specific.
<< <i>Absolutely PURE speculation as there are only 2 known right now. >>
And what if this population remains? Would they not then be in the price range of the 1958 DDO Lincoln?
You can hope! >>
What are there - 3 of those around?
Like the video I linked above, and what everyone keeps saying - you need "Some" population to make this collectable - especially in circulated grades.
Dentuck said it's looking good for a Redbook entry in the future, but not sure if only 2 stay found if it will make it. Not sure how circulated examples would fare not being in Redbook or registries, etc. Think the key here will still be some population at least.
---- My local coin shop went out of business. I bought his inventory and supplies and just brought home the last of 3 complete carloads. With any luck, one of those boxes labeled '58 BU Lincolns will yield #4 8-)
<< <i>Can anyone WAG on the value of the 2 specimens found? Yeah, maybe a little too early, I know. Maybe the holders of the coins can give us a range on some offers they undoubtedly have received. >>
My 10 cents on the matter:
I know the top pop Merc Variety markets best but am certainly more than qualified to comment on the circulated examples as well.
We need problem free examples. If the EF can be properly taken care of then....re-tone by sitting out over the course of 6 months to a year then it can be a market acceptable problem free example. Since I only know what I have read here and since photos of the coin have not been published, I am guessing it could be a while for those to surface.
Demand needs to be created for the variety. I think that has been established already but we still need THE CONTROLLING POWERS THAT BE to do the freaking right thing. This variety is quite significant and deserves to be in the Redbook, no questions asked, even if these two would end up being the only ones found for 10 years. They need to do the right thing! Same goes for the Cherrypickers' Guide. Even with the tons of errors published by the CPG, they are the tail that wags the dog of the PCGS Registry. These groups need to step up and DO THE RIGHT THING. If they fail to do so, they are doing more harm to the numismatic community. It would be sad for that to happen.
As for other varieties in the series. I have been around for only 3-4 examples to be known and attributed. Was there demand for them with that population level? You BET your arse! The 1941 DDO FS-101 sat for a number of years with one and then two AU58s as the top pop. Value was talked about among the specialists in the $2k range give or take. Fcloud(Tony) on these forums had the first AU58. When he was selling his set, he was largly selling things on his own instead of contributing to the profits of auction houses. Some competitive registry folks like myself were not willing to lay out a ton of cash on a Top Pop AU58 while risking one day that an entire roll would be found in Mint State. No one likes to spend a ton of money on a circulated example only to have a lot of higher grade examples to be found. I think people have been looking for the 1941 DDO for close to 10 years. I cherrypicked the 5th(I think...would have to double check later) known example at Winter FUN 2014. It was raw in a 2x2. PCGS graded and attributed it MS65. This is the only mint state example known and top pop by 7 points. Sadly this is not a Redbook variety but I could see the case made that it should be. I decided to sell it and find out what the market, at the time, would truly bear. I sold it via Great Collections and started the bidding at $1! It closed at $1,750+ juice. Had this coin been in the Redbook, I believe it would have had broader appeal and brought more money. I had really hoped for $3k+ but the DEMAND was a little low. If you look at the link in my signature line, you can click to see what most of my Top Pop and high grade varieties just sold for a couple of weeks ago. The market/demand is stronger now than it was a year ago when I sold a few other top pop Merc Varieties.
If you want to talk about a variety OLDER than 1941, you can look to the 1929-S DDO. There was quite a bid of demand for the coin I sold in MS65FB as it sold for a good bit over $2K when the base value of the coin is $550. This coin's doubling pales in comparison to the 1941 or of course the 1919 of course. If you compare the base value of a 1919 in MS65FB, the value is at least somewhat close to the 29-S in the same grade....BUT HOLY cow the 1919 is so much more significant! If anyone finds a MS65FB example of the 1919, people will come out of the woodwork for that thing, taking the bidding very high....
But when it comes to the two known examples, there is a small amount of demand but MANY will hold out for a better example, even if it takes years, myself included....just as I did with the 1941. If the EF can make it into a problem free holder then an early high estimate of value if no other examples are found might be in the $2k range. As for the discovery coin, if someone wanted it really bad, I would place the value in the $500-1,000 range.
We need more problem free examples for sure! Getting the coin into the Redbook, CPG, PCGS Registry, NGC Registry etc then more and more people will search, helping to form a proper market. Coins should be listed in these different publications or registries based on their merits, not the number of examples known.
Lots of long-winded reading and background for sure but without this type of information, best guesstimate information can't be derived in order to come close in answering this question. Sure, a person could just toss out a couple of numbers but when those figures are based on NOTHING GOOD, those estimates become nothing good. We cannot allow ourselves to compare this to the 1916/1916 buffalo since as it has been mentioned, there are ~250 known, the doubling is more significant and more appealing on the date! Let's not go nuts creating comparisons where comparisons are not warranted. The only thing we can use in the comparison is the type of doubling and that they are only three years apart. The comparisons really stop right there.
My best guesses as to value are just that but at least they are INFORMED and EDUCATED GUESSES. I could be wrong. Lol. I hope this background at least helps bring some facts to the forefront rather than have another generalist step forward.
1. We need the thing put in the right books! 2. We need problem free examples found! 3. It would be nice if a finder was brave enough to sell at auction starting at $1! 4. Bottom Line, we will know in a few years. There is no substitute for time and finding out how rare these might be. Patience!
If I owned one of the examples, I would NOT sell now! Wait until DEMAND can be increased and the market can be fully established.
I hope that helps someone, anyone.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i> I bought his inventory and supplies and just brought home the last of 3 complete carloads. With any luck, one of those boxes labeled '58 BU Lincolns will yield #4 8-) >>
Sorry, you're only allowed one find-of-a-lifetime per lifetime - hence the phrase.
Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
First of all you can not compare varieties from one series to a variety of another series. The 1919 can not be compared to the 1916 DDO Nickel.
Second I know from experience on the 1941 DDO not to pay big money on a circ. I made the mistake of doing that and ended up paying less for a AU58 than the VF35 and sold the VF35 for a loss on Great Collections.
I will not......I repeat....... WILL NOT make this mistake again! There are still only 4 1941 DDO's and my PCGS35 went for a little over $250!
<< <i>First of all you can not compare varieties from one series to a variety of another series. The 1919 can not be compared to the 1916 DDO Nickel.
Second I know from experience on the 1941 DDO not to pay big money on a circ. I made the mistake of doing that and ended up paying less for a AU58 than the VF35 and sold the VF35 for a loss on Great Collections.
I will not......I repeat....... WILL NOT make this mistake again! There are still only 4 1941 DDO's and my PCGS35 went for a little over $250! >>
I'll look for a better one for you
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
<< <i>First of all you can not compare varieties from one series to a variety of another series. The 1919 can not be compared to the 1916 DDO Nickel.
Second I know from experience on the 1941 DDO not to pay big money on a circ. I made the mistake of doing that and ended up paying less for a AU58 than the VF35 and sold the VF35 for a loss on Great Collections.
I will not......I repeat....... WILL NOT make this mistake again! There are still only 4 1941 DDO's and my PCGS35 went for a little over $250! >>
Yup, you and Keyman make great points. I am willing to bet the offers thrown at me will be the highest I will ever see, but it isn't really about the $$ right now.
I really have no idea where these things will settle down, way too many variables, and truthfully, I've never been in the middle of something like this, so I'm just along for the ride. I've sent the coin to everyone who wanted it, gave as much info and pictures as I could, and the media is doing their part now, it's kind of out of my hands other than update the posts when I can with any new info I find.
I do know it has a FS #, and Bill Fivaz has said it will be in the next CPG
I do know Ken Bresett and QDB were on the e-mail trail the experts had going on, and Dentuck has said it looks good for a future Redbook inclusion. This coming edition was already set by the time this discovery came out, so too late for this year.
NGC already will certify this coin (As will ANACS, who has my discovery piece right now).
I put links in the 1st post to all the various articles and sites dealing with the dime.
So... $500 or $5000, nobody knows. I doubt there will be a reliable price guide for years to come as keyman said.
Right now I'm just excited to help bring something to light that is rekindling some folks' collecting spirit.
Sometimes clearer heads prevail when food is consumed, one is not distracted by watching their kids practice gymnastics and everything is quiet. As far as my earlier estimates go, I could be very wrong and here is why....but at least the background info is still solid.
When this is listed as a MAJOR REDBOOK VARIETY the demand will skyrocket beyond just that of the Complete Mercury Dime Variety Set collectors. In theory, ALL collectors of Mercury Dimes with Major Varieties will of course need it. There are certainly a lot of people that collect that set, Registry of NOT! Then there are those that don't collect the series but just plain collect cool rare coins.
So, as for the value RIGHT NOW, my estimates could easily be off by 10x or more. As for the value that gets established when almost all of the 1919 coins are looked through...maybe in 10 years when the market for the coin is firmly established....who knows?
If we look at the 1829 Curl Base 2 where there are 30+ examples known I think. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Lol. Many of the examples known have problems but the Top Pop I think is VF35, or at least it was...and that is a MID-5-FIGURE coin.
I will be very interested to look back on this thread/early conversations about this coin in about 10 years! Bottom line, time will tell.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds >>
Sorry to hear. At least you tried. Keep looking...
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds >>
I would have thrown a bid at it-looked like it might be the real deal to me. But then-sometimes we see what we want to see-I've done that more than a few times.
<< <i>Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds >>
I would have thrown a bid at it-looked like it might be the real deal to me. But then-sometimes we see what we want to see-I've done that more than a few times. >>
Here is the auction link, I can't post just the picture from this computer. In the enlarged image the last T in TRUST looked doubled to me, as well as to a couple of others I showed it to. In the hand there is a deep nick on the letter that makes the upright leg look split in two.
For less than four bucks it was absolutely worth seeing in the hand. The hardest part of cherrypicking on eBayis figuring out how to the pick up points for a given variety will look, especially in lower grades or less than optimal images. Let the hunt for Coin #3 continue.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I can see what you potentially saw. But, if you cross your eyes and vigorously shake your head you can see the motto clearly and see there is no doubling.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
I received seven 1919 dimes in the mail yesterday.... bought en masse by my grand daughter who had no clue what I was looking for (she does not know coins at all) from a shop where she lives.... purchased them several days after the OP... Unfortunately, none were the DDO... Was exciting to look though... and the anticipation of finding one was there...oh well, was worth it anyway... Cheers, RickO
Special thanks to Christian (cmerlo1), Paul DeFelice, and ANACS for getting this done for me so fast. I really appreciate you reaching out to me for this.
The dime was on this week's cover of Coin World, among other places - hopefully that will be the nudge to get collectors checking their own coins and hit the shows this weekend to find more.
<< <i>I liked it more when they'd call stuff like this a "Discovery Piece" rather than "First Reported" - I think it just has a better ring to it.
Wasn't this the first example discovered? >>
I know what it is, that's what's important. It wouldn't take much for someone way down the road to look at it and the press on the discovery to show what it really is though - I'm happy.
Maybe cmerlo1 can explain the different terms ANACS uses in situations like this, or if it's a change from "Discovery Coin" or "Discovery PC" I've seen on other slabs.
<< <i>I liked it more when they'd call stuff like this a "Discovery Piece" rather than "First Reported" - I think it just has a better ring to it.
Wasn't this the first example discovered? >>
I know what it is, that's what's important. It wouldn't take much for someone way down the road to look at it and the press on the discovery to show what it really is though - I'm happy.
Maybe cmerlo1 can explain the different terms ANACS uses in situations like this, or if it's a change from "Discovery Coin" or "Discovery PC" I've seen on other slabs. >>
I'm not sure why they called it that, but will ask. I have a VAM discovery ANACS graded, and it says 'Discovery Specimen'.
Edited to add: to me 'discovery specimen' and 'first reported' are one in the same.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
<< <i>Special thanks to Christian (cmerlo1), Paul DeFelice, and ANACS for getting this done for me so fast. I really appreciate you reaching out to me for this.
The dime was on this week's cover of Coin World, among other places - hopefully that will be the nudge to get collectors checking their own coins and hit the shows this weekend to find more.
>>
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Cool. Is Anacs the only one who will designate it that way? >>
Yes, as far as I know. I called PCGS a couple of weeks ago because I have new RPD for an 1897 dime....asked if they would label it a Discovery Coin with proper documentation and they said NO.
Not sure why PCGS doesn't want this business but...whatever....so the business goes to ANACS.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Very nice.... I too would prefer the 'Discovery Piece' term... but we all know it was anyway....congratulations once again. My search continues... Cheers, RickO
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I will have two "good show" opportunities this summer and then a couple in the fall. Besides that it will have to be the luck of spotting one in an auction or eBay(which I hardly ever check).
Good luck to everyone else in the meantime.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Guess nobody found one this weekend either. >>
My local monthly bourse was today. I looked through roughly 20 mixed rolls, 50 dime folders, 10 boxes, every single coin in a case and nothing. I bought a $25 face bag of mercs I still need to look through from the bullion dealer, but will probably be mostly 30s/40s.
Other than forum members ajaan and vbowling299 who were also there, nobody I asked had heard of it yet. The few folks who get coin world said they had not read this week's yet.
I may be mistaken, but does the coin in question exhibit a bit of a rotated reverse? Maybe falls within allowable range where it is not a RR. Or just seems a RR to me because of the way coin is displayed. Due to scheduling I had to pass on 2 auctions where Mercs. were offered up and one local coin show. Maybe next month. I wonder if the unsearched bags/rolls sale hype will start now advertising you may find this error within, all the while the rolls were already searched for this variety/error?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Comments
<< <i>Still waiting on the postman.... should get here today or Monday....yeah, lottery odds are comparable, but fun to anticipate...
Same here, I spotted it on eBay nearly three weeks ago, waited for the auction to end, then for the seller to ship, now according to the USPS it's been sitting on a truck out of New Jersey for three days. If it doesn't show up Monday the suspense may kill me.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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<< <i>I'd be surprised if you find more quickly - means it's not that rare. Some rare VAMs are known to take years before a second specimen is found. >>
I can shed a little light on some Mercury Dime Varieties in general...
There is a 1941 DDO FS-101 that has 4 examples known after a decade plus of searching, only one of which is in Mint State. It of course happens to be the toned MS65 example that I Cherrypicked raw for $45 and sold at auction for $1,750.
My point is there are MANY Mercury Dime Varieties that people have been searching for for over a decade and only a few are known....and these are later dates. For 1919, there are a lot fewer examples to search through (especially in higher grade due to wear and melting for a common date) which will create a challenge but this one has attracted a lot more attention so that will help. Maybe they will balance each other out and in a decade we might have a few to really evaluate.
As for the 1941 DDO, I feel it is rather significant, although not as significant as the 1919. Here are a couple of pics of mine that I sold.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>ARGH!! Everytime I see this 1941 DDO I remember how I just missed that coin by going down the wrong isle (by 1) after lunch at FUN!!!!! >>
We will remember Winter FUN 2014 FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Anyone? Class? Bueller? >>
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
http://www.coinworld.com/videos/2015/march/monday-morning-brief-mar-9-2015.html
The first step Mr. Gibbs gives to this being a success is "A lot of 'em are gonna have to be found" !!!
So I am sending lucky vibes to everyone who is actively searching!
FYI - I update the first post with links as I find them on this story. If you find any others, send me a PM, I'll add them.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Anyone? Class? Bueller? >>
My best attempt at cherrypicking one is sitting in my mailbox at home right now, as soon as I can open it up and get a look I will post what I have.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Is there a smiley where it is holding it's breath? Lol >>
LOL, I read your post ATS, I hear you.
Then he tries to clarify his statement with the 1942/1 and 1942/1-D. Okay fine, I see what he is doing here, he should have originally said MAJOR REDBOOK varieties that bring a LOT of MONEY. But even the REDBOOK mentions a few that have large and small mintmarks and then there is the 1945 micro s.
I just read someone say there have been no errors on quarters since the Wisconsin Extra Leaf - when there have been over 100 Doubled Dies alone, let alone other "Errors" - I guess it all depends what you collect, and what you know and what you read as to what you consider an error.
You should write that book for sure - or at least put out an eBook.
Variety Vista's Mercury Dime eBook is pretty complete though:
http://varietyvista.com/Mercury%20Dime%20Files/index.htm
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Can anyone WAG on the value of the 2 specimens found? Yeah, maybe a little too early, I know. Maybe the holders of the coins can give us a range on some offers they undoubtedly have received. >>
Absolutely PURE speculation as there are only 2 known right now.
Mine is a F-12 or maybe Fine details with some damage on the reverse (It made it to ANACS today, we'll see)
#2 is a cleaned XF that is coming back from conservation right now, so not sure how that will be valued.
This DDO has been compared quite a bit to the 1916/16 DDO Buffalo (with only ~250 certified), which you can find some rough values here:
http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/prices/bufnkl/pricesgd.shtml
If ~250 or so of these Mercs get found, I do not believe values will hold even to the 16/16
But if only 50 or 100 or so of these are found, I don't see why values would be too far off of the 16/16
But... right now, with only a few known, and the "Newness" factor, I can tell you my offers are right near 16/16 pricing 8-) Maybe a little extra for being the "Discovery" coin, but I won't get specific.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Absolutely PURE speculation as there are only 2 known right now. >>
And what if this population remains? Would they not then be in the price range of the 1958 DDO Lincoln?
You can hope!
<< <i>
<< <i>Absolutely PURE speculation as there are only 2 known right now. >>
And what if this population remains? Would they not then be in the price range of the 1958 DDO Lincoln?
You can hope!
What are there - 3 of those around?
Like the video I linked above, and what everyone keeps saying - you need "Some" population to make this collectable - especially in circulated grades.
Dentuck said it's looking good for a Redbook entry in the future, but not sure if only 2 stay found if it will make it. Not sure how circulated examples would fare not being in Redbook or registries, etc. Think the key here will still be some population at least.
----
My local coin shop went out of business. I bought his inventory and supplies and just brought home the last of 3 complete carloads. With any luck, one of those boxes labeled '58 BU Lincolns will yield #4 8-)
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Can anyone WAG on the value of the 2 specimens found? Yeah, maybe a little too early, I know. Maybe the holders of the coins can give us a range on some offers they undoubtedly have received. >>
My 10 cents on the matter:
I know the top pop Merc Variety markets best but am certainly more than qualified to comment on the circulated examples as well.
We need problem free examples.
If the EF can be properly taken care of then....re-tone by sitting out over the course of 6 months to a year then it can be a market acceptable problem free example. Since I only know what I have read here and since photos of the coin have not been published, I am guessing it could be a while for those to surface.
Demand needs to be created for the variety. I think that has been established already but we still need THE CONTROLLING POWERS THAT BE to do the freaking right thing. This variety is quite significant and deserves to be in the Redbook, no questions asked, even if these two would end up being the only ones found for 10 years. They need to do the right thing! Same goes for the Cherrypickers' Guide. Even with the tons of errors published by the CPG, they are the tail that wags the dog of the PCGS Registry. These groups need to step up and DO THE RIGHT THING. If they fail to do so, they are doing more harm to the numismatic community. It would be sad for that to happen.
As for other varieties in the series. I have been around for only 3-4 examples to be known and attributed. Was there demand for them with that population level? You BET your arse! The 1941 DDO FS-101 sat for a number of years with one and then two AU58s as the top pop. Value was talked about among the specialists in the $2k range give or take. Fcloud(Tony) on these forums had the first AU58. When he was selling his set, he was largly selling things on his own instead of contributing to the profits of auction houses. Some competitive registry folks like myself were not willing to lay out a ton of cash on a Top Pop AU58 while risking one day that an entire roll would be found in Mint State. No one likes to spend a ton of money on a circulated example only to have a lot of higher grade examples to be found. I think people have been looking for the 1941 DDO for close to 10 years. I cherrypicked the 5th(I think...would have to double check later) known example at Winter FUN 2014. It was raw in a 2x2. PCGS graded and attributed it MS65. This is the only mint state example known and top pop by 7 points. Sadly this is not a Redbook variety but I could see the case made that it should be. I decided to sell it and find out what the market, at the time, would truly bear. I sold it via Great Collections and started the bidding at $1! It closed at $1,750+ juice. Had this coin been in the Redbook, I believe it would have had broader appeal and brought more money. I had really hoped for $3k+ but the DEMAND was a little low. If you look at the link in my signature line, you can click to see what most of my Top Pop and high grade varieties just sold for a couple of weeks ago. The market/demand is stronger now than it was a year ago when I sold a few other top pop Merc Varieties.
If you want to talk about a variety OLDER than 1941, you can look to the 1929-S DDO. There was quite a bid of demand for the coin I sold in MS65FB as it sold for a good bit over $2K when the base value of the coin is $550. This coin's doubling pales in comparison to the 1941 or of course the 1919 of course. If you compare the base value of a 1919 in MS65FB, the value is at least somewhat close to the 29-S in the same grade....BUT HOLY cow the 1919 is so much more significant! If anyone finds a MS65FB example of the 1919, people will come out of the woodwork for that thing, taking the bidding very high....
But when it comes to the two known examples, there is a small amount of demand but MANY will hold out for a better example, even if it takes years, myself included....just as I did with the 1941. If the EF can make it into a problem free holder then an early high estimate of value if no other examples are found might be in the $2k range. As for the discovery coin, if someone wanted it really bad, I would place the value in the $500-1,000 range.
We need more problem free examples for sure! Getting the coin into the Redbook, CPG, PCGS Registry, NGC Registry etc then more and more people will search, helping to form a proper market. Coins should be listed in these different publications or registries based on their merits, not the number of examples known.
Lots of long-winded reading and background for sure but without this type of information, best guesstimate information can't be derived in order to come close in answering this question. Sure, a person could just toss out a couple of numbers but when those figures are based on NOTHING GOOD, those estimates become nothing good. We cannot allow ourselves to compare this to the 1916/1916 buffalo since as it has been mentioned, there are ~250 known, the doubling is more significant and more appealing on the date! Let's not go nuts creating comparisons where comparisons are not warranted. The only thing we can use in the comparison is the type of doubling and that they are only three years apart. The comparisons really stop right there.
My best guesses as to value are just that but at least they are INFORMED and EDUCATED GUESSES. I could be wrong. Lol. I hope this background at least helps bring some facts to the forefront rather than have another generalist step forward.
1. We need the thing put in the right books!
2. We need problem free examples found!
3. It would be nice if a finder was brave enough to sell at auction starting at $1!
4. Bottom Line, we will know in a few years. There is no substitute for time and finding out how rare these might be. Patience!
If I owned one of the examples, I would NOT sell now! Wait until DEMAND can be increased and the market can be fully established.
I hope that helps someone, anyone.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i> I bought his inventory and supplies and just brought home the last of 3 complete carloads. With any luck, one of those boxes labeled '58 BU Lincolns will yield #4 8-) >>
Sorry, you're only allowed one find-of-a-lifetime per lifetime - hence the phrase.
Second I know from experience on the 1941 DDO not to pay big money on a circ. I made the mistake of doing that and ended up paying less for a AU58 than the VF35 and sold the VF35 for a loss on Great Collections.
I will not......I repeat....... WILL NOT make this mistake again! There are still only 4 1941 DDO's and my PCGS35 went for a little over $250!
<< <i>First of all you can not compare varieties from one series to a variety of another series. The 1919 can not be compared to the 1916 DDO Nickel.
Second I know from experience on the 1941 DDO not to pay big money on a circ. I made the mistake of doing that and ended up paying less for a AU58 than the VF35 and sold the VF35 for a loss on Great Collections.
I will not......I repeat....... WILL NOT make this mistake again! There are still only 4 1941 DDO's and my PCGS35 went for a little over $250!
I'll look for a better one for you
<< <i>First of all you can not compare varieties from one series to a variety of another series. The 1919 can not be compared to the 1916 DDO Nickel.
Second I know from experience on the 1941 DDO not to pay big money on a circ. I made the mistake of doing that and ended up paying less for a AU58 than the VF35 and sold the VF35 for a loss on Great Collections.
I will not......I repeat....... WILL NOT make this mistake again! There are still only 4 1941 DDO's and my PCGS35 went for a little over $250!
Yup, you and Keyman make great points. I am willing to bet the offers thrown at me will be the highest I will ever see, but it isn't really about the $$ right now.
I really have no idea where these things will settle down, way too many variables, and truthfully, I've never been in the middle of something like this, so I'm just along for the ride. I've sent the coin to everyone who wanted it, gave as much info and pictures as I could, and the media is doing their part now, it's kind of out of my hands other than update the posts when I can with any new info I find.
I do know it has a FS #, and Bill Fivaz has said it will be in the next CPG
I do know Ken Bresett and QDB were on the e-mail trail the experts had going on, and Dentuck has said it looks good for a future Redbook inclusion. This coming edition was already set by the time this discovery came out, so too late for this year.
NGC already will certify this coin (As will ANACS, who has my discovery piece right now).
I put links in the 1st post to all the various articles and sites dealing with the dime.
So... $500 or $5000, nobody knows. I doubt there will be a reliable price guide for years to come as keyman said.
Right now I'm just excited to help bring something to light that is rekindling some folks' collecting spirit.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
As far as my earlier estimates go, I could be very wrong and here is why....but at least the background info is still solid.
When this is listed as a MAJOR REDBOOK VARIETY the demand will skyrocket beyond just that of the Complete Mercury Dime Variety Set collectors. In theory, ALL collectors of Mercury Dimes with Major Varieties will of course need it. There are certainly a lot of people that collect that set, Registry of NOT! Then there are those that don't collect the series but just plain collect cool rare coins.
So, as for the value RIGHT NOW, my estimates could easily be off by 10x or more. As for the value that gets established when almost all of the 1919 coins are looked through...maybe in 10 years when the market for the coin is firmly established....who knows?
If we look at the 1829 Curl Base 2 where there are 30+ examples known I think. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Lol. Many of the examples known have problems but the Top Pop I think is VF35, or at least it was...and that is a MID-5-FIGURE coin.
I will be very interested to look back on this thread/early conversations about this coin in about 10 years!
Bottom line, time will tell.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds >>
Sorry to hear. At least you tried. Keep looking...
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds >>
I would have thrown a bid at it-looked like it might be the real deal to me. But then-sometimes we see what we want to see-I've done that more than a few times.
Been there........done that.......a BUNCH of times!
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<< <i>
<< <i>Well my coin was a bust, I'll link to the auction tomorrow so you guys can see what I was looking at. Basically I thought I saw a doubled second T in TRUST but it was actually a deep incuse mark next to the motto.
Sean Reynolds >>
I would have thrown a bid at it-looked like it might be the real deal to me. But then-sometimes we see what we want to see-I've done that more than a few times. >>
Here is the auction link, I can't post just the picture from this computer. In the enlarged image the last T in TRUST looked doubled to me, as well as to a couple of others I showed it to. In the hand there is a deep nick on the letter that makes the upright leg look split in two.
For less than four bucks it was absolutely worth seeing in the hand. The hardest part of cherrypicking on eBayis figuring out how to the pick up points for a given variety will look, especially in lower grades or less than optimal images. Let the hunt for Coin #3 continue.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
The dime was on this week's cover of Coin World, among other places - hopefully that will be the nudge to get collectors checking their own coins and hit the shows this weekend to find more.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I'm still waiting for my "big find"........as pretty much all other collectors are.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Wasn't this the first example discovered?
<< <i>I liked it more when they'd call stuff like this a "Discovery Piece" rather than "First Reported" - I think it just has a better ring to it.
Wasn't this the first example discovered? >>
I know what it is, that's what's important. It wouldn't take much for someone way down the road to look at it and the press on the discovery to show what it really is though - I'm happy.
Maybe cmerlo1 can explain the different terms ANACS uses in situations like this, or if it's a change from "Discovery Coin" or "Discovery PC" I've seen on other slabs.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>
<< <i>I liked it more when they'd call stuff like this a "Discovery Piece" rather than "First Reported" - I think it just has a better ring to it.
Wasn't this the first example discovered? >>
I know what it is, that's what's important. It wouldn't take much for someone way down the road to look at it and the press on the discovery to show what it really is though - I'm happy.
Maybe cmerlo1 can explain the different terms ANACS uses in situations like this, or if it's a change from "Discovery Coin" or "Discovery PC" I've seen on other slabs. >>
I'm not sure why they called it that, but will ask. I have a VAM discovery ANACS graded, and it says 'Discovery Specimen'.
Edited to add: to me 'discovery specimen' and 'first reported' are one in the same.
Cool. Is Anacs the only one who will designate it that way?
<< <i>Special thanks to Christian (cmerlo1), Paul DeFelice, and ANACS for getting this done for me so fast. I really appreciate you reaching out to me for this.
The dime was on this week's cover of Coin World, among other places - hopefully that will be the nudge to get collectors checking their own coins and hit the shows this weekend to find more.
<< <i>Cool. Is Anacs the only one who will designate it that way? >>
Yes, as far as I know. I called PCGS a couple of weeks ago because I have new RPD for an 1897 dime....asked if they would label it a Discovery Coin with proper documentation and they said NO.
Not sure why PCGS doesn't want this business but...whatever....so the business goes to ANACS.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>I liked it more when they'd call stuff like this a "Discovery Piece" rather than "First Reported" - I think it just has a better ring to it.
Wasn't this the first example discovered? >>
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Good luck to everyone else in the meantime.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Guess nobody found one this weekend either. >>
My local monthly bourse was today. I looked through roughly 20 mixed rolls, 50 dime folders, 10 boxes, every single coin in a case and nothing. I bought a $25 face bag of mercs I still need to look through from the bullion dealer, but will probably be mostly 30s/40s.
Other than forum members ajaan and vbowling299 who were also there, nobody I asked had heard of it yet. The few folks who get coin world said they had not read this week's yet.
Very elusive dime so far for sure.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
So cool! Congrats!
That's a 300 in the game of coins.