Awesome story! A hearty congrats and also, You Suck! Almost 100 years under the radar until now. Very, very cool.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Congrats Jeff!!! That's in part what makes the hobby so much fun. They're still out there to be found.
Good luck sleeping tonight. >>
LOL, thank you and everyone else - probably get as much sleep as the last 2 nights (slim - none).
I had a vision of all the local coin shows this weekend.... Let's face it, our forum membership is a small drop in the bucket of small show attendees - but... for the hundreds or maybe thousand of members who have read this, or know about it right now, every dealer with the books/boxes/bins/bowls of Mercury Dimes are going to get slammed at the beginning of the show. I suspect by noon the dealers will start asking WTH is going on, I haven't shown these many Mercs in the last 10 years combined. Probably by afternoon the dealers will put their Mercs behind the table until they get a chance to look.
Once the coin world articles hit and such, I can see the frenzy getting even bigger. Should be fun to watch.
Jeff this is so cool That you found this coin and it is getting a formal number, amazing. Congratulations and keep up the good work sir you do us all proud! You also are very deserving of the you suck award.
Hey when was the last time a forum member found a doubled die or error coin, previously undiscovered, of this age or older?
Congrats, Jeff! And aren't you glad you had the patience not to use any acetone on it - that coin looks so cool in its original grunge -- telling the whole story of its long road from strike to circulation to capture to discovery. Congrats to Scott, too!
Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change
<< <i>Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change >>
I'll defer to the experts on the "How" part - the only guess in the thread was class III doubling.
I personally thought it was a class VIII (In fact, the image in John Wexler's wesite for VIII matches the 'N' almost exactly) http://doubleddie.com/203990.html
<< <i>Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change >>
Back then hubbing took multiple squeezes, with the die being annealed between impressions. The die blank was a shallow cone, so that the hub began forming a design at the center of the die with the design spreading outwards until the die became too work hardened to change anymore.
Based upon a similar doubled die on a 1916 nickel, it is presumed that the first impression faded out a millimeter or two in from the edge of the design. Draw an arc concentric with the rim through the motto and you will see that the missing parts of the motto are all the same distance from the rim. The areas above that arc were hubbed during the first impression, and doubled by the second impression when the die shop worker failed to align the re-annealed die properly.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I started peeking through some 1919 Mercs and did see this. Not the same as the OP's variety, but to me it looks like IGWT has extra thickness in several spots (O, D, U, S). Too bad the pic isn't better, although I suspect this is not a DDO:
Buffnut......could you please send me a copy of that picture to the email address in my profile so that I can blow it up?
Do you have any other shots? Would particularly like to see the periods in IN GOD WE TRUST.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Notice how not all the letters in the motto show the same widening effect more or less to the South? Could be a second doubled die finished from a partially hubbed die that only showed parts of the motto after the first hubbing, but in this case the die and the hub were only slightly offset up and down, so you get the widening where the first partial impression was overlapped by the second impression.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Sure looks like a DDO to me buffnut maybe later die-state? Not sure it's the same one, but that would be crazy to have two substantial undiscovered ddo's found within a few days after nearly a hundred years. >>
Well, I think we have more than a few people looking at the motto on 1919 dimes right now.......
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Second specimen still in transit to Fivaz. No news.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change >>
I'll defer to the experts on the "How" part - the only guess in the thread was class III doubling.
I personally thought it was a class VIII (In fact, the image in John Wexler's wesite for VIII matches the 'N' almost exactly) http://doubleddie.com/203990.html >>
It probably IS a Class VIII but that just indicates it was a tilted hub-i.e. not parallel with the die face. Hub doubling can occur with a Class VIII by itself but the actual mis-hubbing appears to me to be a Class IV-offset hub doubling-i.e. secondary hubbing doubled in one direction relative to the primary hubbing across the die. The spread on the subject coin is too strong to be just a simple Class VIII. This would make the variety a Class IV+VIII. My opinion only-let's see what those who can actually examine the coin say. If James Wiles gets a look at it he will correctly attribute it in the CONECA files.
Buffnut-that one looks like a Class VI to me-extra thickness in the lettering. Another new d die for the 1919 dime? I've always wondered why there is such a paucity of nice doubled dies (other than the 1942 overdates) in the Mercury dime series. Same thing can be said for the Standing liberty 25c-with the exception of the 18/17-S of course.
A third specimen has been reported by a different dealer on my old dealer-to-dealer network. Also high grade. He is sending me pictures on Monday.
TD
P.S.: I expect there to be some serious cherrypicking at the shows this weekend! Let us know what you find!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It should be interesting to see how may are found now that the first one surfaced. The earliest variety for the series was the 1928-Large S, (1929-S DDO if you don't think the Large S qualifies). I think we may have one that is going to be tough to find. Time will tell on that.
Congrats! There sure will be a lot of 1919 Dimes searched out moving forward.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>A third specimen has been reported by a different dealer on my old dealer-to-dealer network. Also high grade. He is sending me pictures on Monday.
TD
P.S.: I expect there to be some serious cherrypicking at the shows this weekend! Let us know what you find! >>
My monthly bourse was canceled an hour or so ago due to the weather. I had high hopes of cherrypicking another before the word really got out. I suspect by next month's show, with the articles you are writing surely to be online as well as in print, opportunity will have drastically been reduced.
Anyone want to guess what the population will be like in a week, month, year, etc?
I told the Capt I suspected a dozen by the end of the weekend, maybe 100 a week after the Coin World articles, but beyond that, I'm at a loss as to speculation.
Ooh trust me, he just hit 91% of all dimes in his registry set, the thought of going down to 90 when this one gets added I'm sure does not make him happy - we've had a few PMs already 8-)
I don't have any immediate plans of letting go of this discovery piece, which is tentatively graded F-12
There have been 2 more reported at higher grade, one in the XF/AU range, and the 3rd I didn't read the grade.
The coin is still with Bill Fivaz, going to James Wiles, then John Wexler, then ANACS. It has a tentative CPG FS#, and will likely get the CONECA designation soon as well. The NGC variety guru is in on the e-mails going back and forth, as are many others, and I suspect it's inevitable that it hits the registry sets. The coin should be in the next CPG vol2. Not sure if/when it will be in other publications, probably depends on how many are found.
Capt Henway has a press release pretty much ready to go out, just a matter of seeing the other specimens, and nailing down a few more details I believe, but he'd have to chime in on that side of things.
With the holiday slowing down mail, probably won't hear much more until next week - I'm dying to see pics of the higher graded examples, and am real curious what an MS example of this variety looks like (especially without the crud buildup mine has).
<< <i>A third specimen has been reported by a different dealer on my old dealer-to-dealer network. Also high grade. He is sending me pictures on Monday.
TD
P.S.: I expect there to be some serious cherrypicking at the shows this weekend! Let us know what you find! >>
My monthly bourse was canceled an hour or so ago due to the weather. I had high hopes of cherrypicking another before the word really got out. I suspect by next month's show, with the articles you are writing surely to be online as well as in print, opportunity will have drastically been reduced.
Anyone want to guess what the population will be like in a week, month, year, etc?
I told the Capt I suspected a dozen by the end of the weekend, maybe 100 a week after the Coin World articles, but beyond that, I'm at a loss as to speculation. >>
I suspect that your population estimates are rather high, but I am willing to be proven wrong.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Wow, just read through the whole thread for the first time, giant congratulations StrikeOutXXX, what a cool discovery, as someone else said, it's great when a forum member makes a find
Astounding that it took 96 years (or 80ish) for someone to notice this variety, that's pretty darned dramatic.. and now, several people will "cherrypick" them out of their own collections
I hope someone finds another that matches this 1919. I think I saw what is being listed at the third one found today at the local show, he was supposed to send pictures to Tom tomorrow, Definitely NOT A match. So, so far only the one coin verified, hopefully the second coin will be a match. I have looked at over 200 1919 merc dimes in the past week and can't imagine that this has kept hiding for this long with as popular as merc dimes are. Really hoping to see more of these pop up.
Comments
huge congrats too
YOU SUCK
Now it's time to go dig those rolls of Mercs out of the safe and go through them.
Wayne
www.waynedriskillminiatures.com
Good luck sleeping tonight.
Congratulations again and you do indeed SUCK on this one!!!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>
Edited to add: "Awared?"
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Congrats Jeff!!! That's in part what makes the hobby so much fun. They're still out there to be found.
Good luck sleeping tonight.
LOL, thank you and everyone else - probably get as much sleep as the last 2 nights (slim - none).
I had a vision of all the local coin shows this weekend.... Let's face it, our forum membership is a small drop in the bucket of small show attendees - but... for the hundreds or maybe thousand of members who have read this, or know about it right now, every dealer with the books/boxes/bins/bowls of Mercury Dimes are going to get slammed at the beginning of the show. I suspect by noon the dealers will start asking WTH is going on, I haven't shown these many Mercs in the last 10 years combined. Probably by afternoon the dealers will put their Mercs behind the table until they get a chance to look.
Once the coin world articles hit and such, I can see the frenzy getting even bigger. Should be fun to watch.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
It blows me away that it took 96 years!
Just imagine all of the people in the past who handled that coin and the other ones like it!!
Way to go on the discovery!
Hey when was the last time a forum member found a doubled die or error coin, previously undiscovered, of this age or older?
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
<< <i>Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change >>
I'll defer to the experts on the "How" part - the only guess in the thread was class III doubling.
I personally thought it was a class VIII (In fact, the image in John Wexler's wesite for VIII matches the 'N' almost exactly) http://doubleddie.com/203990.html
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change >>
Back then hubbing took multiple squeezes, with the die being annealed between impressions. The die blank was a shallow cone, so that the hub began forming a design at the center of the die with the design spreading outwards until the die became too work hardened to change anymore.
Based upon a similar doubled die on a 1916 nickel, it is presumed that the first impression faded out a millimeter or two in from the edge of the design. Draw an arc concentric with the rim through the motto and you will see that the missing parts of the motto are all the same distance from the rim. The areas above that arc were hubbed during the first impression, and doubled by the second impression when the die shop worker failed to align the re-annealed die properly.
TD
<< <i>This is so neat!!! Blow it up, frame it and hang it on your wall.
What a clever little picture, cool. Isn't his buddy who set it aside as an Oddity technically the "discover"
<< <i>
<< <i>This is so neat!!! Blow it up, frame it and hang it on your wall.
What a clever little picture, cool. Isn't his buddy who set it aside as an Oddity technically the "discover" >>
Same way that the Native American Indians Discovered America and Columbus had nothing to do with it.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Now, off to check my Mercs....
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
I started peeking through some 1919 Mercs and did see this. Not the same as the OP's variety, but to me it looks like IGWT has extra thickness in several spots (O, D, U, S). Too bad the pic isn't better, although I suspect this is not a DDO:
Do you have any other shots? Would particularly like to see the periods in IN GOD WE TRUST.
TD
TD
<< <i>Sure looks like a DDO to me buffnut maybe later die-state? Not sure it's the same one, but that would be crazy to have two substantial undiscovered ddo's found within a few days after nearly a hundred years. >>
Well, I think we have more than a few people looking at the motto on 1919 dimes right now.......
<< <i>Buffnut......could you please send me a copy of that picture to the email address in my profile so that I can blow it up?
Do you have any other shots? Would particularly like to see the periods in IN GOD WE TRUST.
TD >>
Email sent
<< <i>
<< <i>Congrats. But how is it possible for part of the motto to be doubled and not the first part? I guess my understanding of how DD's are formed needs to change >>
I'll defer to the experts on the "How" part - the only guess in the thread was class III doubling.
I personally thought it was a class VIII (In fact, the image in John Wexler's wesite for VIII matches the 'N' almost exactly) http://doubleddie.com/203990.html >>
It probably IS a Class VIII but that just indicates it was a tilted hub-i.e. not parallel with the die face. Hub doubling can occur with a Class VIII by itself but the actual mis-hubbing appears to me to be a Class IV-offset hub doubling-i.e. secondary hubbing doubled in one direction relative to the primary hubbing across the die. The spread on the subject coin is too strong to be just a simple Class VIII. This would make the variety a Class IV+VIII. My opinion only-let's see what those who can actually examine the coin say. If James Wiles gets a look at it he will correctly attribute it in the CONECA files.
TD
P.S.: I expect there to be some serious cherrypicking at the shows this weekend! Let us know what you find!
Congrats! There sure will be a lot of 1919 Dimes searched out moving forward.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>A third specimen has been reported by a different dealer on my old dealer-to-dealer network. Also high grade. He is sending me pictures on Monday.
TD
P.S.: I expect there to be some serious cherrypicking at the shows this weekend! Let us know what you find! >>
My monthly bourse was canceled an hour or so ago due to the weather. I had high hopes of cherrypicking another before the word really got out. I suspect by next month's show, with the articles you are writing surely to be online as well as in print, opportunity will have drastically been reduced.
Anyone want to guess what the population will be like in a week, month, year, etc?
I told the Capt I suspected a dozen by the end of the weekend, maybe 100 a week after the Coin World articles, but beyond that, I'm at a loss as to speculation.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>Dimeman hasn't chimed in yet!!! >>
Ooh trust me, he just hit 91% of all dimes in his registry set, the thought of going down to 90 when this one gets added I'm sure does not make him happy - we've had a few PMs already 8-)
I don't have any immediate plans of letting go of this discovery piece, which is tentatively graded F-12
There have been 2 more reported at higher grade, one in the XF/AU range, and the 3rd I didn't read the grade.
The coin is still with Bill Fivaz, going to James Wiles, then John Wexler, then ANACS. It has a tentative CPG FS#, and will likely get the CONECA designation soon as well. The NGC variety guru is in on the e-mails going back and forth, as are many others, and I suspect it's inevitable that it hits the registry sets. The coin should be in the next CPG vol2. Not sure if/when it will be in other publications, probably depends on how many are found.
Capt Henway has a press release pretty much ready to go out, just a matter of seeing the other specimens, and nailing down a few more details I believe, but he'd have to chime in on that side of things.
With the holiday slowing down mail, probably won't hear much more until next week - I'm dying to see pics of the higher graded examples, and am real curious what an MS example of this variety looks like (especially without the crud buildup mine has).
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
<< <i>
<< <i>A third specimen has been reported by a different dealer on my old dealer-to-dealer network. Also high grade. He is sending me pictures on Monday.
TD
P.S.: I expect there to be some serious cherrypicking at the shows this weekend! Let us know what you find! >>
My monthly bourse was canceled an hour or so ago due to the weather. I had high hopes of cherrypicking another before the word really got out. I suspect by next month's show, with the articles you are writing surely to be online as well as in print, opportunity will have drastically been reduced.
Anyone want to guess what the population will be like in a week, month, year, etc?
I told the Capt I suspected a dozen by the end of the weekend, maybe 100 a week after the Coin World articles, but beyond that, I'm at a loss as to speculation. >>
I suspect that your population estimates are rather high, but I am willing to be proven wrong.
TD
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
<< <i>So, did anybody cherrypick one today? >>
I went out and tried but no luck. Only looked at two 1919 dimes-that's all the places had in stock. I'll be back out next week, snowfall allowing.
<< <i>So, did anybody cherrypick one today? >>
None to look at at the show I was at today.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Astounding that it took 96 years (or 80ish) for someone to notice this variety, that's pretty darned dramatic.. and now, several people will "cherrypick" them out of their own collections
it happens!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I have been here all along. I tried to buy the coin from 300strike, but he is keeping it for a while at least.
I have done some searching on Ebay. I looked at my 1919 hoping to cherrypick myself.....but no.
I have no problem with it getting added to the set.....that's what it is all about. I have a bunch of Merc varieties I want to add.
So, so far only the one coin verified, hopefully the second coin will be a match.
I have looked at over 200 1919 merc dimes in the past week and can't imagine that this has kept hiding for this long with as popular as merc dimes are.
Really hoping to see more of these pop up.