Mike - Congrats on the newps, really like the light color on the half.
Scott - Really enjoyed your post on your collecting history. You should submit it to the Barber Coin Collector's Society for publishing in their quarterly journal. I bet most of the BCCS members don't see this forum, and would really enjoy it as well. Also, great job on completing your half set, with a very attractive, original toughie. In my opinion you definitely made the right choice on this 04-S, as opposed to the 53's we discussed earlier. You certainly have a collection to be proud of.
Thanks to all for the positive comments on the 09-O quarter. For today, another newp from Baltimore, an NGC-58. Hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving.
------------ Vern
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Scott, very nice 04-s. I've never thrown that date under the bus. It is renown for several reasons and survivors in XF is one of them. My "35" awaits a future submission and it is one of my favorites.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
Happy Thanksgiving to all and thanks for the great images and wonderful information. For those of us who do not get get here often it's always enjoyable to "back read" pages and pages of the thread.
Anyone happen to be tracking the 09-O Quarter NGC 50 on Heritage (Lot 3572) ? I think it looks pretty washed out and dead looking? Any other opinions on it?
<< <i>Anyone happen to be tracking the 09-O Quarter NGC 50 on Heritage (Lot 3572) ? I think it looks pretty washed out and dead looking? Any other opinions on it? >>
It's nice. Maybe the pix are off but 45+ is a tough climb, perfect or otherwise. Bragging rights anyway for the guy that chases it down. $1650.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
<< <i>Anyone happen to be tracking the 09-O Quarter NGC 50 on Heritage (Lot 3572) ? I think it looks pretty washed out and dead looking? Any other opinions on it? >>
Scott,
I agree with Vern, probably multiple cleanings and now retoning a sick color over dead surfaces. That coin should never have been certified as a problem free coin. It's part of a large group of problem barber quarters in NGC holders currently on auction, most of which are in details grade problem holders.
I agree with the other comments, and I would really like to have a higher grade 09-O in my set other than the current 12, but that coin has been dipped to death.
Joe - Another stellar pickup for your dime collection. Congrats. Like your 97 quarter as well, wish it had an 'S' on the back (as I'm sure you do as well).
Another newp from Baltimore, a raw 1900-S, any opinions on grade?
------------ Vern
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Interesting to see that AU53 04-s half on JJT. Last 53 I saw was at Santa Clara in '08 at the Northern Nevada table. They were asking $5500. What a jump in 5 years. Do love JJ's 01-s half in 55 tho! Blazer.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
<< <i>Interesting to see that AU53 04-s half on JJT. Last 53 I saw was at Santa Clara in '08 at the Northern Nevada table. They were asking $5500. What a jump in 5 years. Do love JJ's 01-s half in 55 tho! Blazer. >>
I pondered that coin in Baltimore...bit too dippy for me. (the 01-s)
Liz had me excited on the 04-S...hadn't seen it in hand...was ready to mortgage something....I agree with the grade assigned...PCGS wants way more luster pop for a 58 than this coin has...not saying it isn't a wonderful coin!
The 04-S Laibstain is selling was offered to me in September for $7500 from the seller who sold the coin to Harry... After seeing the Heritage AU53 close at $5k + the juice, I let the offer go .. I thought $7500 was borderline high. I think the current tage of $9500 is quite high and $13,500 is ... well .. Insert adjective of escallating action of your choice HERE
Mike,While I don't think Liz's 53 is worth quite what she was asking...the anomaly is if ya want a nice coin ya pay the price...if ya want an inferior coin ya pay the numbers you suggest!
Good discussion, all. Heck, I thought the 04S was max'd out a couple of years ago, when apparently it was just warming up! But, all series seem to have certain 'special' dates that are popular and have a lot of cachet, with a price tag to match, whether it's warranted or not. The 09-SVDB is an extreme example of this. But that's where the students of the series have the advantage; they know what the legitimate tough coins are, and pick them up at (relative) bargain prices while they can.
Here is my take on the 04-S and why the big swings in price. More than any other date in the barber half series,there are more 04-s' in holders that shouldn't be and more seem to be a push for the grade. Wish I knew how to search Bowers,I believe there was a 50 that sold last year for around 9K and later a 53 that brought close to 12...I heard about that transaction through the Barber Vine and can not confirm it. That 04-S Heritage just sold appeared to be a dog to me. No way would I have bid on that coin at anywhere near AU money!
I've loved the 1904-S date since ever I bought the first David Lawrence book on Barber Halves. In 1991 it was numbero uno in terms of the fewest graded in unc. and even now is in the top 4 or 5. I have to think that his book was the source of understanding the rarity of the coin in mint state condition. This has spilled over to high circulated grades, and the everyman collections, and people putting together VF, EF and AU sets, trying to find nice examples. As what happens in other situations, supply and demand drive the prices up and people pay the increase and this continues upward, at least for a while. It also pulls uncertified examples out to get slabbed and that increases the population. This is seen to extremes with the 01-S quarter which tends to have higher populations than the 01-P quarter; people don't bother certifying circ 1901-P halves as they tend not to be counterfeited or valued very high because they are common, but the pop reports make the 01-S look more common.
Someone above pointed out that the PCGS pop reports for 04-O is much less than for 04-S in AU53 (and likely in other high circ grades). It may be that the 04-O is less common, but even though a great coin, an 04-O in original EF and AU does not get the respect and price the 04-S gets. There is still that stigma to the 04-S that seemingly won't go away. I think the smart play is to find the other dates like the 04-O, 01-O, etc that are better buys in the higher grades based on experience and pop reports.
Despite high prices on any 04-S half that is nice in F or better, there seems to be enough demand to keep the prices up where they are. I personally don't see that changing soon.
I have enroute to me what I think is the keydate to an everyman set of barber halves! Anyone wanna take a gander without looking at my registry set as to what I think the key date is?
<< <i>I have enroute to me what I think is the keydate to an everyman set of barber halves! Anyone wanna take a gander without looking at my registry set as to what I think the key date is? >>
I'll guess 05-o.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
<< <i>I have enroute to me what I think is the keydate to an everyman set of barber halves! Anyone wanna take a gander without looking at my registry set as to what I think the key date is? >>
I'll guess 05-o. >>
In the scheme of the overall grades of an everyman set...I would say this is a top contender.
I should have said in a top everyman set! Would that change your answer?
Vern has a knack of finding Barber Quarters with that very look .. I agree solid mid AU 55 - In my conversations with Darrell, I agree .. Could be the 97-O or the 05-O .. I know the person who bought the NGC AU58 Half from the recent Heritage Auction (hammered at $2100 I think) .. Plans to cross to PCGS and double his money.
Mike, call me late to the party .. I just spent some time looking through the Elbesaar Quarter collection (retired) .. I won't even comment as the English language has insufficient adjectives so no comment
Justin - You're a smart guy .. You're comments are not only welcomed, but I look forward to them .. Please share
My view on the 04-S: While I don't see the 04-S as over rated, it probably is a little inflated. Until recently, I hadn't seen an example for sale above VF30 in a long time. Suddenly the market gets hit with a couple XF and AU coins all in the past couple months. If I were selling one, I would try and time it so that one hadn't come for sale recently .. Give some time for the guns to reload their ammo. In fact, any time I have planned on selling a desirable date and grade coin, I prefer to do it when one hadn't come for sale in some time. A few months back I listed a 1910-S XF40 for sale on eBay.. Maybe R-2 if not R-1 .. But one hadn't been auctioned anywhere in months .. It only takes 2 to make an auction and the hammer price was $465. And the coin had so-so eye appeal.
Dr. Shireman hit it perfectly in my opinion. High value coins are much more apt to be certified (and sent for regrade as a couple points = $$$) thus the pops of 01-S Quarters (and 04-S Halves) far outshines the "common" dates. Certainly, it is in anyone's best interest to locate the "tier 2" semi-keys and hopefully expect a nice return at some future point.
No ones telling me what they think the best topgrade everyman date is.....think an AU! I've heard rumors there is or are complete AU58 sets out there. If you needed to put 10 AU sets of Barber Halves together....which date would be the toughest? Look at the POP's They are inaccurate in my opinion!
I sent Justin 2 sets of pic's from different eyes and cameras. I told him to start the guess the grade which will reveal the date when he felt best! I hope we can stir up the Barber Mega thread!
I don't recall you saying "top grade" (meaning AU58/58+) .. I thought you just were referring to the toughest coin to find in upper circulated grades in general
if it's the top grade, I imagine the 97-S pop 2 would be .. Simple enough to check AU58 pops I suppose (and then try and diagnose how many actually exist)
<< <i>I don't recall you saying "top grade" (meaning AU58/58+) .. I thought you just were referring to the toughest coin to find in upper circulated grades in general
if it's the top grade, I imagine the 97-S pop 2 would be .. Simple enough to check AU58 pops I suppose (and then try and diagnose how many actually exist) >>
I mean in the overall scheme of AU's! Maybe I should've just said AU!
I think I am not qualified to answer that and I say that because my pursuits of 2-3 years is a small sample size .. The coins in and of themselves are quite scarce .. So it is possible to see a run of certain coins from 2010-2012 that may not have existed for a decade previous. For instance I have seen a lot of 1895-O and 1910-P in AU recently .. Generally both are considered somewhat scarce .. Conversely, common coins like 1898 and 1908-D I haven't seen many at all in AU the past couple years. It took me a very long time to find a 1905-P and 1903-O in AU but both were very much worth the wait.
All that being said, I still say it is a tie between the 1897-O and 1905-O as being the scarcest coins to find in AU in general.
Here's something else I just thought of, relative to the 04-S half. If an AU 53 is offered at $13,500, and an AU58 brought $17K or more, the example in PCGS MS 65 that US coins has (I see it on eBay) for $46K becomes really interesting. Granted, the difference in absolute dollars is nothing to sneeze at, but having a GEM 04-S in PCGS for only a bit more than triple AU 53 money, now that's something to think about!
The top 04-S halves:
1-3: PCGS MS 67's, Duckor, Price, Shireman 4. PCGS 66, Eliasberg/Friend. 5-7. PCGS 65, 3 coins, including the one on offer from US Coins.
I have no ownership or interest in the coin on offer from US Coins. I just brought it up as an interesting illustration.
Agreed Dr. Pete, and even looking at what a 97-O in 58 brought in the not to distant past compared to what a decent MS example would cost can be a bit mind boggling.
Very astute observation Dr., but that's assuming someone will pay $13.5 for the 53. None the less, the AU58 that DID realize $17.5 a couple years ago is less than triple the price of one of the rarest coins abailable in gem in the entire set. Based on what recently happened with the 97-S AU58, we are either on the verge of a new economy with circulated coinage or we are in the midst of another economic bubble
So, I guess I'm not aware of the "Everyman set" parameters. Would have only been talking about the 05-o in Everyman grades like 30-45. Had AU been the call, I would have deemed the 01-o to be king, followed by that ridiculously scarce 97-o. Or vis-versa as someone pointed out. Nice coin. Indeed.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
Looks very much like the Heritage NGC 58 .. Have to say it is all of a 55, maybe 58. Luster usually the key (although I have seen some recent 58's I think are 50/53)
<< <i>Looks very much like the Heritage NGC 58 .. Have to say it is all of a 55, maybe 58. Luster usually the key (although I have seen some recent 58's I think are 50/53) >>
Scott,I just went and looked. It is definately the Heritage coin. That has changed my approach...I had stopped looking at NGC Coins in AU! Someone made a chunk off me but I am OK as I feel it is worth it in the long haul.....off course that is if it looks like the 2nd set of Pics.
Lots of interesting thoughts on the value of 04-S's. The sale of Mike's AU58 in August 2011, certainly raised the bar. I don't begrudge any dealer asking whatever they want for a coin, after all, one doesn't have to buy it, and supply and demand will eventually win out.
Darrell - Congrats on the 97-O. I can't guess, since I already know what PCGS called it. Our boy in Raleigh keeps his hands in barber halves.
LVGT - good look on the 93. Very nice coin.
------------ Vern
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Comments
Congrats on your barber half set completion and thanks for sharing your collecting biography. Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Doug
Scott - Really enjoyed your post on your collecting history. You should submit it to the Barber Coin Collector's Society for publishing in their quarterly journal. I bet most of the BCCS members don't see this forum, and would really enjoy it as well. Also, great job on completing your half set, with a very attractive, original toughie. In my opinion you definitely made the right choice on this 04-S, as opposed to the 53's we discussed earlier. You certainly have a collection to be proud of.
Thanks to all for the positive comments on the 09-O quarter. For today, another newp from Baltimore, an NGC-58. Hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving.
------------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
My "35" awaits a future submission and it is one of my favorites.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Have the best weekend with families and friends!
________________
Craig
Indeed, this is a great thread to back read pages and pages
Happy Thanksgiving to all the good folks who post in this thread
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Anyone happen to be tracking the 09-O Quarter NGC 50 on Heritage (Lot 3572) ? I think it looks pretty washed out and dead looking? Any other opinions on it? >>
It's nice. Maybe the pix are off but 45+ is a tough climb, perfect or otherwise.
Bragging rights anyway for the guy that chases it down.
$1650.
------------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
<< <i>Anyone happen to be tracking the 09-O Quarter NGC 50 on Heritage (Lot 3572) ? I think it looks pretty washed out and dead looking? Any other opinions on it? >>
Scott,
I agree with Vern, probably multiple cleanings and now retoning a sick color over dead surfaces. That coin should never have been certified as a problem free coin.
It's part of a large group of problem barber quarters in NGC holders currently on auction, most of which are in details grade problem holders.
Doug
other than the current 12, but that coin has been dipped to death.
My newest dime addition 04-S in PCGS 58
This coin has great color and luster PCGS 53
Edited because I can't preview my images
Another newp from Baltimore, a raw 1900-S, any opinions on grade?
------------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
I'd say a very solid 55. Nice coin!
Doug
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Do love JJ's 01-s half in 55 tho! Blazer.
<< <i>Interesting to see that AU53 04-s half on JJT. Last 53 I saw was at Santa Clara in '08 at the Northern Nevada table. They were asking $5500. What a jump in 5 years.
Do love JJ's 01-s half in 55 tho! Blazer. >>
I pondered that coin in Baltimore...bit too dippy for me. (the 01-s)
Liz had me excited on the 04-S...hadn't seen it in hand...was ready to mortgage something....I agree with the grade assigned...PCGS wants way more luster pop for a 58 than this coin has...not saying it isn't a wonderful coin!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
The 04-o is a pop 0 coin in 53.
Just saying.
Heck, I thought the 04S was max'd out a couple of years ago, when apparently it was just warming up!
But, all series seem to have certain 'special' dates that are popular and have a lot of cachet, with a price tag to match,
whether it's warranted or not. The 09-SVDB is an extreme example of this.
But that's where the students of the series have the advantage; they know what the legitimate tough coins are, and
pick them up at (relative) bargain prices while they can.
Someone above pointed out that the PCGS pop reports for 04-O is much less than for 04-S in AU53 (and likely in other high circ grades). It may be that the 04-O is less common, but even though a great coin, an 04-O in original EF and AU does not get the respect and price the 04-S gets. There is still that stigma to the 04-S that seemingly won't go away. I think the smart play is to find the other dates like the 04-O, 01-O, etc that are better buys in the higher grades based on experience and pop reports.
Despite high prices on any 04-S half that is nice in F or better, there seems to be enough demand to keep the prices up where they are. I personally don't see that changing soon.
<< <i>I have enroute to me what I think is the keydate to an everyman set of barber halves! Anyone wanna take a gander without looking at my registry set as to what I think the key date is?
I'll guess 05-o.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have enroute to me what I think is the keydate to an everyman set of barber halves! Anyone wanna take a gander without looking at my registry set as to what I think the key date is?
I'll guess 05-o. >>
In the scheme of the overall grades of an everyman set...I would say this is a top contender.
I should have said in a top everyman set! Would that change your answer?
As far as the 04-S and the pricing in AU...way out of my league. But I do have my opinions why the price is so much for that particular coin.
Darrell, just conversing with you at Baltimore I would guess 97-O. Although a 96-O wouldn't surprise me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Mike, call me late to the party .. I just spent some time looking through the Elbesaar Quarter collection (retired) .. I won't even comment as the English language has insufficient adjectives so no comment
Justin - You're a smart guy .. You're comments are not only welcomed, but I look forward to them .. Please share
My view on the 04-S: While I don't see the 04-S as over rated, it probably is a little inflated. Until recently, I hadn't seen an example for sale above VF30 in a long time. Suddenly the market gets hit with a couple XF and AU coins all in the past couple months. If I were selling one, I would try and time it so that one hadn't come for sale recently .. Give some time for the guns to reload their ammo. In fact, any time I have planned on selling a desirable date and grade coin, I prefer to do it when one hadn't come for sale in some time. A few months back I listed a 1910-S XF40 for sale on eBay.. Maybe R-2 if not R-1 .. But one hadn't been auctioned anywhere in months .. It only takes 2 to make an auction and the hammer price was $465. And the coin had so-so eye appeal.
Dr. Shireman hit it perfectly in my opinion. High value coins are much more apt to be certified (and sent for regrade as a couple points = $$$) thus the pops of 01-S Quarters (and 04-S Halves) far outshines the "common" dates. Certainly, it is in anyone's best interest to locate the "tier 2" semi-keys and hopefully expect a nice return at some future point.
I sent Justin 2 sets of pic's from different eyes and cameras. I told him to start the guess the grade which will reveal the date when he felt best! I hope we can stir up the Barber Mega thread!
if it's the top grade, I imagine the 97-S pop 2 would be .. Simple enough to check AU58 pops I suppose (and then try and diagnose how many actually exist)
<< <i>I don't recall you saying "top grade" (meaning AU58/58+) .. I thought you just were referring to the toughest coin to find in upper circulated grades in general
if it's the top grade, I imagine the 97-S pop 2 would be .. Simple enough to check AU58 pops I suppose (and then try and diagnose how many actually exist) >>
I mean in the overall scheme of AU's! Maybe I should've just said AU!
I think I am not qualified to answer that and I say that because my pursuits of 2-3 years is a small sample size .. The coins in and of themselves are quite scarce .. So it is possible to see a run of certain coins from 2010-2012 that may not have existed for a decade previous. For instance I have seen a lot of 1895-O and 1910-P in AU recently .. Generally both are considered somewhat scarce .. Conversely, common coins like 1898 and 1908-D I haven't seen many at all in AU the past couple years. It took me a very long time to find a 1905-P and 1903-O in AU but both were very much worth the wait.
All that being said, I still say it is a tie between the 1897-O and 1905-O as being the scarcest coins to find in AU in general.
The top 04-S halves:
1-3: PCGS MS 67's, Duckor, Price, Shireman
4. PCGS 66, Eliasberg/Friend.
5-7. PCGS 65, 3 coins, including the one on offer from US Coins.
I have no ownership or interest in the coin on offer from US Coins. I just brought it up as an interesting illustration.
Had AU been the call, I would have deemed the 01-o to be king, followed by that ridiculously scarce 97-o. Or vis-versa as someone pointed out.
Nice coin.
Indeed.
<< <i>Looks very much like the Heritage NGC 58 .. Have to say it is all of a 55, maybe 58. Luster usually the key (although I have seen some recent 58's I think are 50/53) >>
Scott,I just went and looked. It is definately the Heritage coin. That has changed my approach...I had stopped looking at NGC Coins in AU! Someone made a chunk off me but I am OK as I feel it is worth it in the long haul.....off course that is if it looks like the 2nd set of Pics.
Darrell - Congrats on the 97-O. I can't guess, since I already know what PCGS called it. Our boy in Raleigh keeps his hands in barber halves.
LVGT - good look on the 93. Very nice coin.
------------
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
I'll guess AU55 on the 97-O.
Doug
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases