What's new in the wonderful world of Lp2 doubled die collecting? Anything new come into your possession? I've come across a few winning coins/mint boxes lately but they sure are a challenge to find. Now I know how gold miners feel when
a certain vein is starting to show signs of being mined out.
P.S. Has anyone gotten a response from our host or NGC regarding labeling the errors now that they have the CPG numbers to refer to?
<< <i>I have not had any success in dealing with PCGS or NGC.
We need more members to pester them about it. >>
Isn't there a policy with PCGS and NGC that they woud automatically begin grading and labeling error coins once they are recognized in the CPG? Are there any exceptions with any other coin that's in the CPG but not recognized officially by them?
Why would they need us to cajole them or inundate them with multiple requests? It's really their loss, business wise, in my opinion.
There is no reason to "pester" them until the book comes out. They will ignore you and all these coins till they see it in print!! They won't exactly be the next big thing so to speak!! Just a small blip on the variety radar. Once the board members have their high grade ones attributed these will languish and be forgotten. The market will only absorb a couple dozen of each variety before it will saturate and stagnate. Look at all the current CPG Lincoln variety auction results in Coinfacts. The top pops do well while the next grades down barely sell for the fees it costs to have them attributed and graded. These are common varieties, far from rare!! Thousands of each exist in high grade. I doubt any of these will grade higher than 65 or 66 on a good day. I own numerous ANACS MS67's and they ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE to PCGS 67 material!! If someone is going to make a 67 I'd believe it's one of the hoarders from this thread! I wish you "believers" luck when you have yours graded. With less than 10 graded PCGS 67 from this year a CPG Attributed PCGS 67 would be a nice payday. I have about 15 I will submit myself. But I don't see them accepting them till November or December at the earliest!!
So, and forgive me for not knowing the answer since I've never sent anything in for grading to anyone, you're saying that it's cheaper to send these in for economy grading plus shipping, return shipping, and handling and then go through the same
process for re-slabbing with the designated error label than just sending them in one time and having the proper attribution attached to it? Seems like shipping and handling twice plus grading and re-slabbing fees would cost more and not be worth it.
Am I wrong?
I've purchased a couple of unattributed NGC MS66 Wddr 002 (doubled thumbs) and tried to flip them on Ebay for about $25....which is way below what an Anacs fully attributed label MS66 goes for...guess what....no takers after re-listing several times!!
I had great pics, have 100% positive feedback etc. etc. etc...Pitboss and others can attest to getting great prices on attributed Anacs' slabs. PCGS and NGC need to get going on these. It just makes good business sense to me.
I think the people who think these will have a short run with collectors and only the 67's will sustain any value through the years because there's such a "glut" of them are the ones who have never searched bank boxes to find out how truly rare some of
these errors are. Many bank boxes, and Lp2 boxes for that matter, are void of anything significant. That means thousands of dollars and uncounted hours of searching through boxes to find the best of the best errors that rank highly and are featured
<< <i>So, and forgive me for not knowing the answer since I've never sent anything in for grading to anyone, you're saying that it's cheaper to send these in for economy grading plus shipping, return shipping, and handling and then go through the same
process for re-slabbing with the designated error label than just sending them in one time and having the proper attribution attached to it? Seems like shipping and handling twice plus grading and re-slabbing fees would cost more and not be worth it.
Am I wrong?
I've purchased a couple of unattributed NGC MS66 Wddr 002 (doubled thumbs) and tried to flip them on Ebay for about $25....which is way below what an Anacs fully attributed label MS66 goes for...guess what....no takers after re-listing several times!!
I had great pics, have 100% positive feedback etc. etc. etc...Pitboss and others can attest to getting great prices on attributed Anacs' slabs. PCGS and NGC need to get going on these. It just makes good business sense to me.
I think the people who think these will have a short run with collectors and only the 67's will sustain any value through the years because there's such a "glut" of them are the ones who have never searched bank boxes to find out how truly rare some of
these errors are. Many bank boxes, and Lp2 boxes for that matter, are void of anything significant. That means thousands of dollars and uncounted hours of searching through boxes to find the best of the best errors that rank highly and are featured
and given specific error numbers in the CPG. >>
I don't think Tommy is saying it's cheaper, only smarter because of the supposed bias mentioned toward variety grading. I btw don't believe it but it is an interesting idea. If you did submit twice you'd have the original Modern fee per coin plus handling and the second time if resubmitted for variety attribution you'd have the attribution fee of $18 plus $12 reholder fee plus p/h/i. This idea would save you time in getting the coins to market as submitting your already graded PCGS coins would be a lot faster as no grading time is involved.
None of these varieties are rare or even scarce. They have been hoarded for over 5 years now!! I bet several people following this thread have over a 100++ of each CPG varieties in their hoard!! I'd love to know how many some of you guys have stashed away!! Hopefully you had fun finding them! That's what the variety hobby is all about, the thrill of the hunt.
<< <i>None of these varieties are rare or even scarce. >>
Let me repeat
<< <i>I think the people who think these will have a short run with collectors and only the 67's will sustain any value through the years because there's such a "glut" of them are the ones who have never searched bank boxes to find out how truly rare some
of these errors are. Many bank boxes, and Lp2 boxes for that matter, are void of anything significant. That means thousands of dollars and uncounted hours of searching through boxes to find the best of the best errors that rank highly and are featured
and given specific error numbers in the CPG. >>
Some of the best errors were only found in bank boxes...few and far between...errors like the 006 final die stages, 016, 025, 043, 050, 051, 052. and 095's . I wouldn't doubt some have hoarded a 100+ of some but certainly not all. These varieties
just aren't found in mass quantities. Some may have luck but these are tough finds in my years of experience in searching. Even the 006 in the Lp2 boxes only yield about 5-6 per roll and are found only in the 4/23 boxes. That's pretty rare in my book.
Well, enough from me I'm sure others have things to say on the subject. I will wait until PCGS and NGC wake up to grading and attributing these before submitting. Later doubled die-hards!
Most people think of the 09 errors as the ones found in the LP2 boxes and this is not where the good ones come from.
Mint boxes contain the WDDR's 006,014,016,025,043,050,051 which are great errors and numerous minor errors which I did not even keep.
The mint boxes were distributed to businesses for a couple of months before the errors in the LP2 boxes were even found.
These circulated coins are out there in bulk and look terrible as they do not wear well so the amount of uncirculated coins are relatively low.
Most forum members only have the ones from LP2 boxes as it take many hours of hard work, and a lot of money, to look through a full box of 2500 pennies.
I know as I have looked through hundreds of these boxes.
Keep in mind that there are thousands of penny collectors out there and there are plenty of these errors to be found in circulation today.
The CPG is finally coming out and we shall see what happens come October.
I haven't really followed this issue much and please do excuse me if this has been answered numerous times, I have a proof set with an error on the formative cent that is similar to the ones discussed in this thread. Is this going to be in the CPG and is it very rare?
Hi Jim, Good to hear from you again. It will not be in the CPG that I know of but is listed in Wexler's. It is a very nice error to own though as I also have one of those graded PR69. There is only so much space available in the CPG for these errors so they did not all get in there.
Getting back to the error ( WDDR-001/ S Proof) You do know that the Proof sets can easily crack open and closed up again? What's to say someone would just place an error inside then close up again?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Just picked up four Lp2 mint boxes at my local brick and mortar shop. No, not 4/23's...but a decent date...4/16 8:25 am 9774....who can tell me what I'll find inside? This is a test...only a test for all of you doubled die-hards..
<< <i>Sorry for the triple post. I tried to get in and it kept saying error. >>
That's ok Pitboss. You were right all three times...haha. They have the Wddr-013 stage D (massive die crack error). I opened one box and found 3 inside. From my experience you would normally only find 2 per box..so I got a bonus.
I also bought a bank box recently on the cheap. Still going through it. It's yielding mostly a marginal "best of" error, the Wddr-071 and other minor and less desirable errors (chucking those) but I have found a small quantity of 050's (about one every two
rolls opened). Surprisingly the last roll I opened yielded an 052 and an 006 stage D reverse and stage C obverse. Just the small die cracks on each side (not the holy grail) but still an interesting and exciting find. That's the first time I've ever found
an 006 in the wild! I'm still searching so I'll update if any more surprises come up.
How does THIS happen? Not in the CPG and yet graded with the variety labelled by NGC? After all of these years waiting for the 2009 Formative errors to be recognized by the major grading companies and the reasons we had to wait...no problem...send
in your Homestead quarters and we'll designate the ddr's right now. I suspect that the insiders own a bunch of these and got NGC to circumvent their policies. Has anyone seen if PCGS has done the same? ARGGHH!
That didn't bother you Pitboss? Are these errors more significant than the Formative errors? There are 100+ of the Homestead errors also..what's the difference? Why do these get recognized by the TPG's? Ok, I'm off my soapbox.
It all depends who wants to get them attributed and mostly who does not. The 09 errors came on the heals of the stupid Minnesota dots and dashes was the major problem. A lot of the 09 errors are much more important than either of those other two by far.
How does THIS happen? Not in the CPG and yet graded with the variety labelled by NGC? After all of these years waiting for the 2009 Formative errors to be recognized by the major grading companies and the reasons we had to wait...no problem...send
in your Homestead quarters and we'll designate the ddr's right now. I suspect that the insiders own a bunch of these and got NGC to circumvent their policies. Has anyone seen if PCGS has done the same? ARGGHH! >>
The difference is "not a bunch of insiders", there is no conspiracy. Right off the bat Ken Potter said the 2015-P-Homestead-ATB-Quarter-WDDR-004-Pump Handle-Reflection reminded him of the significant 2009 Duke Ellington keyboard doubling. The Pump Handle error jumps out at you. It is bold and strong. I have MS67 skeleton fingers and can barely see them with a 10X loupe. So you can start there with differences.
btw the Duke Ellington error is a 2009 attributed coin, so Pitboss your argument of 2009 errors being overlooked is incorrect.
Pump handle is a better error than skeleton finger, as evidenced by NGC not attributing the skeleton finger, and immediately attributing the Pump Handle and the Ellington error.
I am not saying the pump handle is not a good error because it is but the skeleton ringer is larger on the smaller coin than the pump handle is on the larger coin. Do you feel it is better because of the size of the coin? I don't!
Hammer... You do know that you will not get anyone on this thread to agree with your assessment of the Formative errors. Yes, we have had to patiently wait and lobby for recognition by the major TPG's for many years but
the reward is on the horizon. I do believe that PCGS and NGC will ultimately label the errors once the CPG comes out later this month. Once that happens, a new wave of interest and a more broad collector base will form. Of course, time will tell as
with any coin or attribution but I remain steadfast in my belief in them. To your point earlier about the Homestead 004 error being easier to see than the 006 skeleton finger...probably because it's on a quarter and not a penny. I like the Homestead 004
error so don't get me wrong. I just don't think there's much in that large group of identified errors that is interesting. At least in the Formative group there's more than just candlesticks in the window, a multitude of other window pane varieties, or cuds that
add snow on a roof or look like a leaking bucket.
In any event I hope you're holding on to whatever 2009 Formative errors you have because even the non-believers will benefit ultimately. Hold on to your 001, 002, 006, 016, 025, 043, 050, 051, 052, and 062's ... it's gonna be a fun ride for those of faith.
Fellas, I know I took my life in my hands coming in here. I know I won't be invited to anymore 'believer' picnics.
I love the skeleton finger. I bought boxes of unsearched bank boxes. I bought 4-18 and 4-23 mint boxes like crazy. I own the skeleton and other slabbed FY's. I'm not married to them like Onedollar and Pitboss.
A nicer modern error came along that immediately got attributed (like the Ellington did). I prefer it.
Comments
a certain vein is starting to show signs of being mined out.
P.S. Has anyone gotten a response from our host or NGC regarding labeling the errors now that they have the CPG numbers to refer to?
I have not had any success in dealing with PCGS or NGC.
We need more members to pester them about it.
<< <i>I have not had any success in dealing with PCGS or NGC.
We need more members to pester them about it. >>
Isn't there a policy with PCGS and NGC that they woud automatically begin grading and labeling error coins once they are recognized in the CPG? Are there any exceptions with any other coin that's in the CPG but not recognized officially by them?
Why would they need us to cajole them or inundate them with multiple requests? It's really their loss, business wise, in my opinion.
Am I right Papi?
Why PAY 18 bucks for each coin to get the Variety? Send them in NOW and pay for just economy grading.
Than if any of them are MS 67 you send those back in for reholder and Variety when they start to Put the Variety on the Label and save a fortune.
Plus any one that comes back a 65 or 66 can still be sold on ebay with a Good picture of that Variety again after the Book comes out.
They are much tougher on Varieties than a regular coin so odds are in your favor to submit Without Variety First.
Get these Graded before the Guide comes out and you will be ready to go....
JMO Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
process for re-slabbing with the designated error label than just sending them in one time and having the proper attribution attached to it? Seems like shipping and handling twice plus grading and re-slabbing fees would cost more and not be worth it.
Am I wrong?
I've purchased a couple of unattributed NGC MS66 Wddr 002 (doubled thumbs) and tried to flip them on Ebay for about $25....which is way below what an Anacs fully attributed label MS66 goes for...guess what....no takers after re-listing several times!!
I had great pics, have 100% positive feedback etc. etc. etc...Pitboss and others can attest to getting great prices on attributed Anacs' slabs. PCGS and NGC need to get going on these. It just makes good business sense to me.
I think the people who think these will have a short run with collectors and only the 67's will sustain any value through the years because there's such a "glut" of them are the ones who have never searched bank boxes to find out how truly rare some of
these errors are. Many bank boxes, and Lp2 boxes for that matter, are void of anything significant. That means thousands of dollars and uncounted hours of searching through boxes to find the best of the best errors that rank highly and are featured
and given specific error numbers in the CPG.
<< <i>So, and forgive me for not knowing the answer since I've never sent anything in for grading to anyone, you're saying that it's cheaper to send these in for economy grading plus shipping, return shipping, and handling and then go through the same
process for re-slabbing with the designated error label than just sending them in one time and having the proper attribution attached to it? Seems like shipping and handling twice plus grading and re-slabbing fees would cost more and not be worth it.
Am I wrong?
I've purchased a couple of unattributed NGC MS66 Wddr 002 (doubled thumbs) and tried to flip them on Ebay for about $25....which is way below what an Anacs fully attributed label MS66 goes for...guess what....no takers after re-listing several times!!
I had great pics, have 100% positive feedback etc. etc. etc...Pitboss and others can attest to getting great prices on attributed Anacs' slabs. PCGS and NGC need to get going on these. It just makes good business sense to me.
I think the people who think these will have a short run with collectors and only the 67's will sustain any value through the years because there's such a "glut" of them are the ones who have never searched bank boxes to find out how truly rare some of
these errors are. Many bank boxes, and Lp2 boxes for that matter, are void of anything significant. That means thousands of dollars and uncounted hours of searching through boxes to find the best of the best errors that rank highly and are featured
and given specific error numbers in the CPG. >>
I don't think Tommy is saying it's cheaper, only smarter because of the supposed bias mentioned toward variety grading. I btw don't believe it but it is an interesting idea. If you did submit twice you'd have the original Modern fee per coin plus handling and the second time if resubmitted for variety attribution you'd have the attribution fee of $18 plus $12 reholder fee plus p/h/i. This idea would save you time in getting the coins to market as submitting your already graded PCGS coins would be a lot faster as no grading time is involved.
None of these varieties are rare or even scarce. They have been hoarded for over 5 years now!! I bet several people following this thread have over a 100++ of each CPG varieties in their hoard!! I'd love to know how many some of you guys have stashed away!! Hopefully you had fun finding them! That's what the variety hobby is all about, the thrill of the hunt.
<< <i>None of these varieties are rare or even scarce. >>
Let me repeat
<< <i>I think the people who think these will have a short run with collectors and only the 67's will sustain any value through the years because there's such a "glut" of them are the ones who have never searched bank boxes to find out how truly rare some
of these errors are. Many bank boxes, and Lp2 boxes for that matter, are void of anything significant. That means thousands of dollars and uncounted hours of searching through boxes to find the best of the best errors that rank highly and are featured
and given specific error numbers in the CPG. >>
Some of the best errors were only found in bank boxes...few and far between...errors like the 006 final die stages, 016, 025, 043, 050, 051, 052. and 095's . I wouldn't doubt some have hoarded a 100+ of some but certainly not all. These varieties
just aren't found in mass quantities. Some may have luck but these are tough finds in my years of experience in searching. Even the 006 in the Lp2 boxes only yield about 5-6 per roll and are found only in the 4/23 boxes. That's pretty rare in my book.
Well, enough from me I'm sure others have things to say on the subject. I will wait until PCGS and NGC wake up to grading and attributing these before submitting. Later doubled die-hards!
Mint boxes contain the WDDR's 006,014,016,025,043,050,051 which are great errors and numerous minor errors which I did not even keep.
The mint boxes were distributed to businesses for a couple of months before the errors in the LP2 boxes were even found.
These circulated coins are out there in bulk and look terrible as they do not wear well so the amount of uncirculated coins are relatively low.
Most forum members only have the ones from LP2 boxes as it take many hours of hard work, and a lot of money, to look through a full box of 2500 pennies.
I know as I have looked through hundreds of these boxes.
Keep in mind that there are thousands of penny collectors out there and there are plenty of these errors to be found in circulation today.
The CPG is finally coming out and we shall see what happens come October.
I just re-listed 30 listings that I took down before and every single one of them had double digit views on them within 15 minutes.
Perfect time for the CPG to come out as labor day will be over with and interest in coins will pick up.
Jim
Good to hear from you again. It will not be in the CPG that I know of but is listed in Wexler's. It is a very nice error to own though as I also have one of those graded PR69. There is only so much space available in the CPG for these errors so they did not all get in there.
Jim
Jim
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line."Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line."Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.You still have to have an "S" mintmark on the coin.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I have 20 proof sets and found 2 of the WDDR001's out of the 20 sets.
I just looked on ebay to see what was available and did not see anything interesting though.
:ThumbsUp
<< <i>massive die cracks >>
Sorry for the triple post. I tried to get in and it kept saying error.
<< <i>Sorry for the triple post. I tried to get in and it kept saying error. >>
That's ok Pitboss. You were right all three times...haha. They have the Wddr-013 stage D (massive die crack error). I opened one box and found 3 inside. From my experience you would normally only find 2 per box..so I got a bonus.
I also bought a bank box recently on the cheap. Still going through it. It's yielding mostly a marginal "best of" error, the Wddr-071 and other minor and less desirable errors (chucking those) but I have found a small quantity of 050's (about one every two
rolls opened). Surprisingly the last roll I opened yielded an 052 and an 006 stage D reverse and stage C obverse. Just the small die cracks on each side (not the holy grail) but still an interesting and exciting find. That's the first time I've ever found
an 006 in the wild! I'm still searching so I'll update if any more surprises come up.
good job
good job
These errors are still out there!
Are you ready?
I know onedollar is as he is constantly rebuilding his inventory from his devastating loss from the break in that took most of his coins.
These coins are still out there in the wild guys.
How does THIS happen? Not in the CPG and yet graded with the variety labelled by NGC? After all of these years waiting for the 2009 Formative errors to be recognized by the major grading companies and the reasons we had to wait...no problem...send
in your Homestead quarters and we'll designate the ddr's right now. I suspect that the insiders own a bunch of these and got NGC to circumvent their policies. Has anyone seen if PCGS has done the same? ARGGHH!
<< <i>this
How does THIS happen? Not in the CPG and yet graded with the variety labelled by NGC? After all of these years waiting for the 2009 Formative errors to be recognized by the major grading companies and the reasons we had to wait...no problem...send
in your Homestead quarters and we'll designate the ddr's right now. I suspect that the insiders own a bunch of these and got NGC to circumvent their policies. Has anyone seen if PCGS has done the same? ARGGHH! >>
The difference is "not a bunch of insiders", there is no conspiracy. Right off the bat Ken Potter said the 2015-P-Homestead-ATB-Quarter-WDDR-004-Pump Handle-Reflection reminded him of the significant 2009 Duke Ellington keyboard doubling. The Pump Handle error jumps out at you. It is bold and strong. I have MS67 skeleton fingers and can barely see them with a 10X loupe. So you can start there with differences.
btw the Duke Ellington error is a 2009 attributed coin, so Pitboss your argument of 2009 errors being overlooked is incorrect.
Pump handle is a better error than skeleton finger, as evidenced by NGC not attributing the skeleton finger, and immediately attributing the Pump Handle and the Ellington error.
<< <i>You think the pump handle is more significant than the skeleton finger? You have to be kidding me! >>
Not just me. The buyers on Ebay and the real experts Ken Potter and NGC think the Pump Handle is far superior to the skeleton finger.
You guys have been whining for 6 years it's a conspiracy. LOL! You say, Just wait it will be attributed by PCGS or NGC. LOL.
It's been SIX YEARS. Wake up and smell the coffee it isn't happening.
The Pump Handle is the winner. No contest!
the reward is on the horizon. I do believe that PCGS and NGC will ultimately label the errors once the CPG comes out later this month. Once that happens, a new wave of interest and a more broad collector base will form. Of course, time will tell as
with any coin or attribution but I remain steadfast in my belief in them. To your point earlier about the Homestead 004 error being easier to see than the 006 skeleton finger...probably because it's on a quarter and not a penny. I like the Homestead 004
error so don't get me wrong. I just don't think there's much in that large group of identified errors that is interesting. At least in the Formative group there's more than just candlesticks in the window, a multitude of other window pane varieties, or cuds that
add snow on a roof or look like a leaking bucket.
In any event I hope you're holding on to whatever 2009 Formative errors you have because even the non-believers will benefit ultimately. Hold on to your 001, 002, 006, 016, 025, 043, 050, 051, 052, and 062's ... it's gonna be a fun ride for those of faith.
Carry on doubled die-hards!
I love the skeleton finger. I bought boxes of unsearched bank boxes. I bought 4-18 and 4-23 mint boxes like crazy. I own the skeleton and other slabbed FY's. I'm not married to them like Onedollar and Pitboss.
A nicer modern error came along that immediately got attributed (like the Ellington did). I prefer it.