2009 lincoln formative / Lp2 mint boxes / proof sets / doubled die errors

Onedollarnohollar

Just curious. If there is so little interest (seemingly) in the 2009p Lincoln formative series doubled dies, why are there so few "key date" Lp2 mint boxes for sale anymore? I surf Ebay ( and local sources) regularly

looking for those "special" dated boxes and find virtually "none" anymore. You can buy lots of dates still, but the "key dates" (and those of us who collected these know the dates intimately) are not to be found.

So, is there actually a growing underground collector base that is hoarding for the future in anticipation of increasing values? I haven't seen the most recent publication of the Red Book so I don't know if the

doubled dies are listed and given their due. The most recent Cherry Picker Guide that I have does not cover them at all (ends with the year 2000). So it's a mystery to me where the boxes have all gone. I know

I'm asking the right people this question.

joeykoins

I hope your correct. Then maybe, these will fire up once again! I think the newest edition of The cherrypicker's guide has the 2009 "Formative years" pictured and priced?

InternetJunky

I believe most have been picked over when the craze was at it's peak. I still have my sealed shipping box of 5, but I have no intentions of selling it. Must be others out there like me. I believe joeykoins is correct and the lastest Cherrypickers does list these if I remember correctly.

ricko

Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO

1tommy

<< <i>Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO >>

There are many of us on here just waiting, time is a coin collectors best friend. Next guide that comes out is suppose to have these in there, and there are a few members ready with graded examples from across the street. I think our host missed out and that some of these should have been listed awhile ago, I love the high and low leaf wisconsin, and some of these lincolns to me are even cooler. Patience and its not like any of us have alot of money invested IN these....................Enjoy tom

Swampboy

Onedollarnhollar don't take this the wrong way but would you mind sharing your intimate knowledge of dates.

1tommy

<< <i>Onedollarnhollar don't take this the wrong way but would you mind sharing your intimate knowledge of dates. >>

If you search formative years I think there is more threads but this one was the one I found as a newbie...............dates and times on boxes time flys Enjoy tom

Papi

Unfortunately they are not yet listed in the Cherrypickers Guide. The guide that included the Lincoln Cents was last updated in 2007; at that time it only listed mintages to the year 2000. So, in 2007 it was 7 years behind, now it's 12 years behind.

I understand Ken Potter has taken over as co-author of the CPG, and a new volume is in the works.

In the meantime, Ken Potter has published his 3rd Edition of "Strike It Rich With Pocket Change"; in there he has listed the major 2009 FY varieties with their CPG numbers.

I saw an MS68 on Ebay sell for $499, but the majority of graded sell for under $50 and raw coins under $20.

So, if you are amongst those that feel that a $10-$20 penny sale isn't worth your time, then they'll never be of interest.

My son is thrilled at the prospect of selling 1c for $10, to him that's like buried treasure, and I'm thrilled to spend time with him and watch the anticpation and excitement build as we search for these varities. We have FUN!!

Good box dates still appear on Ebay, but they're few and far between.

joeykoins

Good info. papi . I'm glad Ken Potter has some sayso now! He's an avid lover of the Lincoln cent, if anyone will promote the "Abe" Ken, probably has the best influence on getting these rolling once again. I refuse to give up on these! I know many of you feel the same. Go Ken,GO !!!

Akbeez

The good lp2 boxes really dried up. I keep a watch for them and only found one in the last few months.

The Lincoln Cent Resource site has these listed in a top 10 list now, I recently discovered. See this Site

I've seen steady interest in these.

pf70collector

Still have about 20 of the prime date boxes I haven't opened up. Most bought at the Mint, but I was also purchasing on ebay 2 years ago when there was a generous crop of these. Good luck.

Akbeez

Heard these were listed in Potters book "strike it rich with pocket change". Can anyone confirm this?

pitboss

I opened up all of my prime date boxes and don't even remember what the dates and times were anymore but I am locked and loaded just in

case these coins do take off.

Papi

<< <i>I hope your correct. Then maybe, these will fire up once again! I think the newest edition of The cherrypicker's guide has the 2009 "Formative years" pictured and priced? >>



What book are you looking at?

joeykoins

I've heard the most recent Cherrypicker's Guide will have the 2009 series in it? Haven't seen but heard through the grapevine. You know, the new C.P.G.your talking about,with Ken Potter involved.

pitboss

Having talked to the right people at Whitman, I have been told that they will be working on vol one of the 6th edition of the cherry pickers

guidebook this year and should publish it next year.

The formative years errors will be in it or at least the best ones.

joeykoins

YEAH!!!

Papi

<< <i>Having talked to the right people at Whitman, I have been told that they will be working on vol one of the 6th edition of the cherry pickers

guidebook this year and should publish it next year.

The formative years errors will be in it or at least the best ones. >>



Really? I'll believe it when I see it.

The last one published in 2007 only included Lincolns to 2000; six years behind.

I guess if they publish in 2013 to include 2009 varieties, they'll only be 3 yrs behind, since you can't count the publishing year.

They should just publish a digital version, much less work.

pitboss

This is true but they are a publishing company.

Publishing companies have their own way of doing things.

I know because I worked in the printing business for quite a few years and saw how slow they were to accept changes.

There are still a lot of people who like the printed word as opposed to a digital printout.

Papi

<< <i>Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO >>



I know I'm going to get slammed for the comparison, but the 1955 DDO wasn't even valued in the hundreds of dollars until 10 years after it's discovery.

1972 was only valued at $300 in MS66 in 1995, now it's $1100.

The point being; this is the normal progression of a newly discovered variety. Personally, hanging onto a penny for 10 years is not going to cause me any pain or unhappiness.

So, for those of you needing instant wealth, then your interest has disappeared.

Raufus

never mind

crypto79

<< <i>

<< <i>Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO >>



I know I'm going to get slammed for the comparison, but the 1955 DDO wasn't even valued in the hundreds of dollars until 10 years after it's discovery.

1972 was only valued at $300 in MS66 in 1995, now it's $1100.

The point being; this is the normal progression of a newly discovered variety. Personally, hanging onto a penny for 10 years is not going to cause me any pain or unhappiness.

So, for those of you needing instant wealth, then your interest has disappeared. >>



I hope you are just use those as examples (be it incorrectly so) and you are not trying to infer or imply that the 2009 cents are anywhere comparable to any of the coins listed. At best they are a curiosity at worst they are irrelevant/non-viable from an investment perspective.

pitboss

<< <i>

<< <i>Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO >>



I know I'm going to get slammed for the comparison, but the 1955 DDO wasn't even valued in the hundreds of dollars until 10 years after it's discovery.

1972 was only valued at $300 in MS66 in 1995, now it's $1100.

The point being; this is the normal progression of a newly discovered variety. Personally, hanging onto a penny for 10 years is not going to cause me any pain or unhappiness.

So, for those of you needing instant wealth, then your interest has disappeared. >>




My grandchildren can have them.

I am tired of trying to give them away and will just hold them at this point.

I just wish my grandfather had left me some coins but he passed away in 1902.

Just think what he could have left me.

Constantine

I know there are a 100+ varieties but Skeleton Finger is still the winner. The only one that looks like this and it is the most dramatic. It has the DDR too and also the die crack progession/stages. It is in more limited quantities than people realize. There will always be those not interested or who will gloss over the 2009 FY DDRs because of all the varieties, but for those interested there are a handful of gems out there for a design that will never be repeated.

Papi

<< <i>I know there are a 100+ varieties but Skeleton Finger is still the winner. The only one that looks like this and it is the most dramatic. It has the DDR too and also the die crack progession/stages. It is in more limited quantities than people realize. There will always be those not interested or who will gloss over the 2009 FY DDRs because of all the varieties, but for those interested there are a handful of gems out there for a design that will never be repeated.

>>





The continued focus on the 100+ varieties baffles me; as if there's some requirement to obtain every one.

Maybe the fault is with the attributers, listing things too small to see. But customers pay money to have their discoveries recognized, no matter how small.

I suppose that if it were a perfectly formed finger, rather than a boney looking digit, there would be much more interest.

We can discuss this to death; skeletal like. Time will tell, and the major ones will be included in price guides.

Investments in these should be limited to only the highest grades. Just my opinion

Onedollarnohollar

I too will hold onto these for the years that it takes for collector recognition and valuation. The search is still fun and with very little investment they're the perfect collectible for me. I'm looking forward to the

Ken Potter influenced publication of the CPG and hopefully the RedBook will follow suit in acknowledging the "ten best" varieties. I agree that the "skeleton finger" is THE KEY of all of them due to the fact it is

#1 DRAMATIC and #2 RARE - found in only one date LP2 mint issued box within approximately a four hour window Time will tell.

joeykoins

<< <i>I too will hold onto these for the years that it takes for collector recognition and valuation. The search is still fun and with very little investment they're the perfect collectible for me. I'm looking forward to the

Ken Potter influenced publication of the CPG and hopefully the RedBook will follow suit in acknowledging the "ten best" varieties. I agree that the "skeleton finger" is THE KEY of all of them due to the fact it is

#1 DRAMATIC and #2 RARE - found in only one date LP2 mint issued box within approximately a four hour window Time will tell. >>

The 'Key' words that you used are " ...very little investment..." You are so right,well worth the little amount of money spent.

Papi

They're already listed on Lincoln Cent Web Sites

Lincoln Resource "Top Ten"

In their opinion these are the most collectible. I would add another 5 or 6 to the list.

These are the money coins, not the flyspecks that others seem to be preoccupied with; simply because they've been attributed.

The attributor himself, Wexler, only lists 1/3 of them as being "The Best"; thereby telling you they're all not noteworthy. So, the 100+ varieties, that you poo-pooers are crying over, are now only 30; of which only 10-15 will be listed in reference books.

There are 168 RPMs for the 1960d Lincoln, the best ones carry the best prices. It's a niche market that you may choose to collect all of them or you search and trade the best; same with 2009s.

joeykoins

Yeah papi, good info. once again. I have a ton of #8's.

pitboss

I have lots of the 1's,2's, and 3's but none of the other 7 so I guess I have to start looking for some of them.

Onedollarnohollar

some of the "die crack" varieties are also interesting and worth collecting imho. I've kept several of the wddr 013 but there are others like "smoking abe" (I have a couple) that are something to search for.

joeykoins

Yeah, I have a plenty of dem' die-cracks also. Some at 3:00 ,some at 6:00,some at 9:00. I even have a few of "wire" near the boot. Man, I hope these catch the interest.Esp. valuewise!

pitboss

Just keep in mind that forum members have most of these coins so they are not widely known about.

joeykoins

Good point. We have them,so how could they get noticed? We need to set them free. Yeah right.

Papi

<< <i>I agree that the "skeleton finger" is THE KEY of all of them due to the fact it is

#1 DRAMATIC and #2 RARE - found in only one date LP2 mint issued box within approximately a four hour window Time will tell. >>



That is not entirely correct.

The late stage varieties of the Skeleton, with the large cracks on the Obverse & Reverse were found in bank boxes.

So, if rarity equals value; the WDDR-006 with the huge reverse crack is VERY rare. Shortly after the crack occurred the reverse was replaced with another die; stage H.

pitboss

Can you post one of those with the skeleton finger and large die crack?

Akbeez

Interesting. Were any of the large die cracks/skeleton found in LP2 boxes?

Papi

None of the many LP2 boxes I've opened contained any Skeletons with die cracks; not a single one.

CoinCrazyPA

<< <i>None of the many LP2 boxes I've opened contained any Skeletons with die cracks; not a single one. >>



I agree, I opened around thirty boxes and not one with the die crack.

pitboss

I opened a bunch and never found one.

Has anybody here seen one?

Papi

I have them. I just don't have the ability to post the picture.

The crack is similar to the major crack below; except it runs through the "A" and is not as thick

Crack

Constantine

<< <i>None of the many LP2 boxes I've opened contained any Skeletons with die cracks; not a single one. >>



Same here. The LP2 boxes don't have the Skeleton Finger with the die crack. I bought a few that have a die crack that were found in bank rolls. The die failed quickly though and it is cool to see the progression of the crack. I wish I had pictures.

pitboss

Does anyone have one they can sell me so I can see it. PM me with the price you want.

Onedollarnohollar

I have found a few of the skeletons in the lp2 boxes with what would be an early stage die crack on the obverse. I will try to take a pic and post here later. If anyone has a pic of the last stage die crack for comparison purposes that would be great. Mine have a hairline die crack from the rim into the jacket about 1/4" long starting at about 7 o'clock. I haven't seen pics of the progression from early to late stages
but think it would be interesting to see what actually has been shown thus far.

Akbeez

I'm with Pitboss, would like a die crack specimen for comparison. I never noticed any with die cracks, but didn't really look either (LP2s).

PM me if have anyone has one to sell or trade for a few others.

Papi

I asked an Ebay seller; he said he just sold his last ones for $75 each

jessewvu

<< <i>I opened a bunch and never found one.

Has anybody here seen one? >>



I have found a die crack, top above Lincoln's head, out of an LP2 box. No other variety on the coin though, other than a large crack.

I also have been keeping records of each box I open, what was inside, and overall quality. I can say that of all the dates, the errors are VERY specific to dates/times/and lot number printed on the box. I can actually estimate what will be in the box before I open it and am right 99% of the time. If I need a specific coin, I just go to that box that has the highest average of the variety, open it up, and get the coin(s) I need. I'm glad I've been keeping records since 2009, it's paid off.

pitboss

I sure wish I had kept those kind of records as I opened hundreds of boxes but can not remember any of the times and dates.

Zrider

I also have been keeping records of each box I open, what was inside, and overall quality. I can say that of all the dates, the errors are VERY specific to dates/times/and lot number printed on the box. I can actually estimate what will be in the box before I open it and am right 99% of the time. If I need a specific coin, I just go to that box that has the highest average of the variety, open it up, and get the coin(s) I need. I'm glad I've been keeping records since 2009, it's paid off.

I have two boxes LP2 9974 time 09:15 date 04/13/09 Maybe you could tell me whats in them.

Zrider

OP what boxes are you looking for?

Onedollarnohollar

My favorite dates are 4/15, 16, 17, 23, and 29 and then only certain time parameters and batch numbers. I'm sure all that have collected these and catalogued each opened box and their specifics would

generally agree with these dates. The available supply for these has dropped dramatically but may still be found. Other dates have yielded interesting varieties, die cracks, and die clashes so they are fun to search

out as well, but from my experience at least the major (or "best of") errors have been found in these dates. Now, there are significant finds in rolls that aren't found in the LP2 boxes but I haven't done any roll

searching so far but may start doing so. You can research on other threads what others have discovered (that's how I began my searches) . There's one particular thread titled something like "2009 formative

errors found" that is the most comprehensive look at these. If anyone else has found significant errors in other dates other than what I've listed please share your discoveries. Good hunting to you all!