Believe me when I tell you, these coins are starting to sell very well and you cant find any more to buy to replace what you have sold because they do not come up for sale much anymore.
I have increased all my prices dramatically in the last few weeks and am still selling to my loyal customers.
Maybe its time to stop selling them at all until the CPG comes out.
Thanks to Pitboss Kenny is on his way. We are pleased to purchase the ones we need. Our goal is to have one of every major and minor variety for LP1, LP2, LP3, and LP4 for the presentations. Has anyone gone through the trouble of creating a list of all the varieties for all 4 coins (Id number and short description of the variety)? We did print out all 300 of Wexler's pages but would like to have a simple list too.
Again, we are not asking for you to be generous and send coins. I am very happy to pay for the ones we need. Let me know which ones you are willing to sell (through a PM) and I will pay you by paypal. I will then update the list - again varieties for all 4 designs.
American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page
<< <i>What holes (varieties) need to be filled in his variety quest? I'm impressed with his organizational skills in creating an album with samples and pictures for display and discussion. Those
coin clubs are going to learn something and he's going to gain invaluable experience in both collecting specific coins and addressing these groups with his findings and opinions.
Maybe you can take some pics of what he's presenting and share them with us on this thread. I personally would enjoy that. A doubled thumbs up to both of you! >>
Most definitely in regards to pictures of his presentation once Kenny is done. Kenny has done some simple show and tell talks at the clubs but I want him to get more comfortable speaking to large groups. Since he has been collecting for 6 years, he fund of knowledge is impressive (proud daddy talking here) on almost all US coins. He is able to hold his own with even with the long time members in the clubs.
He participates in another coin forum group and I would like for him to participate in the Collectors Universe forums. We sent in a request over the weekend but have not heard back. It has been years since I joined CU so I do not remember how long it takes to hear back regarding acceptance. He is great with his digital microscope and I know he would enjoy sharing posts and pictures with collectors here at CU.
Also, thanks for the kind words several of you have shared. I appreciate it and it makes my son feel like a seasoned collector when other collectors acknowledge him.
American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page
<< <i>Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO >>
I know I'm going to get slammed for the comparison, but the 1955 DDO wasn't even valued in the hundreds of dollars until 10 years after it's discovery.
1972 was only valued at $300 in MS66 in 1995, now it's $1100.
The point being; this is the normal progression of a newly discovered variety. Personally, hanging onto a penny for 10 years is not going to cause me any pain or unhappiness.
So, for those of you needing instant wealth, then your interest has disappeared. >>
15th edition redbook (1962) $95 in Unc. >>
Collectors need to get over the fact that double dies with todays minting process do not look the same as they did in 1955 nor do cars or anything else.
The WDDR 006 will be a very rare coin 10 years from now and with the millions of Lincoln coin collectors looking for them the price will rise as is already started taking place.
Three months ago you could find them for $7 to $10, now they are approaching $30 as word starts to spread.
The WDDR 001 and 002 are not as rare as the 006 but the coat tails will drag them along for the ride.
Trying to find any of these coins now in their LP 2 boxes has become a very hard task as they do not come up for sale very often anymore.;
Good luck to you that have not put aside your share of this treasure while you could at reasonable prices.
I'm about to publicly display my ignorance on these varieties, but that's nothing new...
Papi pointed this out earlier in this thread about some very interesting die marriages of some of the early and best varieties. They are buried deep somewhere in this thread, and helped me understand how these varieties were connected -- but I'll admit I can't quite remember HOW? I seem to have CRS more and more these days. [PM me if you don't know the acronym]
This needs to be documented and perhaps Ken and Kenny can help do that. Can someone please refresh my memory of the specifics?
One of my fav's that are not on the list is the wddr-013(b) "Massive die crack" that was only found in a very narrow timeframe. I'd be happy to donate one.
The other real "waycool" factoid is the progression of die breaks in the "skeleton" wddr-006 variety. Wexler has how many -- a through h? No photos exist of all of these that I know of.
Helps me out ya'll fo'mative geeks, watz dis' hap'nin, yo?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
The ones I really like are the late stage ones that first show the obverse die crack and then graduate into the reverse die crack. That is when the 006 reverse die finally broke. They then replaced the reverse die but did not change the obverse die creating the combination of the same die crack and the WDDO 002 on the obverse and a new die on the reverse until that obverse die broke which ended the saga of the 006.
See?? This is what we need documented in a great FY variety resource.
Ken/Kenny: Your quest to present ALL 2009 Lincoln varieties is admirable -- but personally, the best by no comparison is the Formative varieties. No others compare. I suggest you focus your attention here and not get diluted with the other in the 09 series. Believe us, this in itself is a big undertaking in itself.
Frankly, I don't care about the minutia of the other Lincoln presidential series since they are really so minor that they are a "yawn" to most of the collectors. Pitboss calls these "dots and dashes" varieties that will go into nothingness in infamy. I agree with him [he is the guru here]. Additionally, the minor varieties in the Formatives are "ho-humm" to most of us too. I congrat you on your intent, but don't focus too much effort on something that will never come to anything. A speck on a log cabin end is not a big whoop. An obvious extra finger on Abe is --- WOW.
Yo, AK
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
It's now the "13C" reverse doubled die with the massive die crack. There is also a 13D (die chip on the top left of the E in ONE added) This is one of my favorites and a very tough one to
find.
So many challenging die stages to analyze and confirm through your loupe on these. Sometimes it gets dizzying but I enjoy the search. Hats off to the researchers that blazed the trail and
identified all of these die markers to follow. That is what I call "concentrated focus".
Thanks OneDoll -- here's an example of what I mean, copied from Wexlers's website in regards to the "massive die crack" variety:
2009 1¢ FY WDDR-013
Description: A partial extra finger can be seen just above the normal index finger at the knuckle.
Die Markers: Obverse Stage A: A die scratch runs from the upper left W of WE to the rim. A pre-die crack depression runs NW through the eyebrow. Obverse Stage B: A die crack runs from SSW to NNE through the hair on the upper back of the head while another runs from SW to NE through the hair on the upper back of the head. A die crack runs from south to north through the hair at the top of the head projecting into the field SW of the W in WE. A die crack branches from this die crack near the top of the head and runs ENE. A die crack runs NW from the eyebrow into the forehead with a branch curving SW along the back of the eye and another branch running NNW just above the eyebrow. A small die chip can be found just above the eyebrow on the die crack running NNW. A pre-die crack depression runs from NNW to SSE through the upper front of the forehead. A die crack runs from ENE to WSW through the bowtie and then curves south into the vest. A die crack runs from NNE to SSW through the beard and then curves SSE. Obverse Stage C: Same as Stage B. Obverse Stage A pre-die crack depression runs above the designer’s initials. Reverse Stage A: A die gouge (dot) can be found on the right inside of the C in CENT. A die cracks run down the lower center of the right boot. A pre-die crack depression runs across the lower left boot. Reverse Stage B: A small die gouge can be found below and between the T and E of UNITED. A light die crack connects the bottoms of the E and D in UNITED. A small die chip can be found on the top left E of ONE. A light die crack runs down the vertical bar of the E in STATES into the field above the E. A die crack runs across the head of the mallet. A die chip can now be found near the center of the pre-die chip depression on the lower left boot. Pre-die crack depressions can be found on the left shoulder. A die crack runs across the left arm below the elbow. Reverse Stage C: A massive die crack runs south from the rim down the E of STATES and ends to the left of Lincoln’s nose. The die crack through the mallet head extends SW to the rim. Reverse Stage A die chip can be found on the top left corner of the E in ONE. A pre-die chip depression can be found on the center right side of the N of CENT.Text
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
The lay person-collector has trouble with this as I. Get it?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Haha PB....you don't need to see anything but the dates and times on the lp2 boxes or identify bank boxes that are worth having. You've amassed an incredible collection and have
generously shared information with everyone here that has followed this detailed conversation. Your contributions in word and gifts to newbies are your "die marker" on this thread.
<< <i>The lay person-collector has trouble with this as I. Get it? >>
I get it...but Akbeez you are far from a lay person in this series. You are a long time collector (and Ebay seller) of these varieties. I have to believe you've studied the various stages if
for no other reason than to gain an edge for promotional purposes. I think Wexler's site could be improved by photos of the various stages along with the descriptions...especially the
die break stages that would illustrate how dramatic they can be. That said...Wexler's site is the best to date that we have for our research. I've cross referenced many times using his site.
Here's a pic of my Wddr-013 "D" .... dear Mr. Wexler, would this be so hard to do on your site?
You give me too much credit OneDoll. I have focused only on a certain group of varieties and admit ignorance on the latter varieties. You and others really carry the expertise on these. Papi too has been a great resource if I could recommend someone to help with the basics of Formative Varieties 101.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
There is a library full of information on this thread alone and some wonderful illustrations in pictures also. Pitboss, Papi, and many others have contributed invaluable insights, knowledge,
and passion about the subject of these varieties through the years. Full recognition by the major TPG's is inevitable because of Whitman Publishing's support and acknowledgement in the Pro
Red Book and the much anticipated CPG that will come out next year. (as I understand it) Of course the fact that the variety experts such as Wexler, Coneca, etc., having compiled
detailed information that legitimizes the fact that they are true doubled dies, goes a long way in keeping the conversation going.
They all got burned out on certifying those dots and dashes they called extra trees which were a lot like most of the 09 DD. There was nothing like some of the great ones like the 001,002 and 006.
Went to my local B & M yesterday...still laughs at me when I ask if he's gotten any lp2 boxes or 2009 proof sets in. Calls them my "damn stupid pennies".
I was lucky last week to pick up three lp2 boxes that I knew would contain the Wddr-013 "stage D" reverse (large die crack variety). I also discovered that the obverse of these have
a small die crack from the top of Lincoln's head to the rim above. Very small but obvious and consistent on every sample I've looked at. That translates to a "stage D" obverse according
to Wexler's description. I've opened up two of the boxes so far and found a total of seven of the extreme errors and lesser stage 13's, some 12's, and catfish abe's with a die cud on the
edge of the book (which I'd never seen before). Well, happy hunting all! P.S. I hope Papi is ok, haven't heard from him for awhile.....
Just found a box of LP2 in my box of misfit items. Time and date stamp on the side is 02/26/09 with a time of 08:12. Anything good to be found in this box?
Excellent BST board members who complete their deals: WONDERCOIN, DABIGKAHUNA, GEMSTATECOINS, FIVECENTS, SILVEREAGLES92, NEWMISMATIST, GTOster, SCHMITZ7,
Your LP2 box date sounds like a LP1 box -- are you sure of the date? LP2 boxes came out in April 2009. We will be happy to answer your LP2 box questions.
Cheers!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>Just found a box of LP2 in my box of misfit items. Time and date stamp on the side is 02/26/09 with a time of 08:12. Anything good to be found in this box? >>
No errors but the unopened box is worth north of $40.
OK, that date is not a good date for errors. Not to say it could not, but it does not have a history of varieties so far.
Cheers, AK
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Good Morning Coin Collectors. I just received an email as a daily Coin Update that featured among other subjects a comprehensive article about the 5th Edition of the Professional Redbook. The article states as we all know, that the book addresses various interesting topics "including" the 2009 Formative Years Doubled Die cent errors. Its nice to see the book bring that info. into the book's "Highlights". Everyone have a great day !! Mark.
This may have been discussed before but what is the consensus about major dealers promoting these?
My guess is the majority of the major dealers do not have large quantities of these on hand for such a promotion and it seems buying on the secondary market now is beginning to dry up.
This may be evident since most of the mint LP2 boxes are not generally cheap anymore.
These errors may be abundant but seem to be in the hands of only a few collectors. Without major dealer promotions, do you think these will take off?
I personally have my own private hoard but seriously doubt they will appreciate much in my lifetime.
This is only my IMHO. You have some very thoughtful people here on the Forum that have truly helped many coin collectors pursue collecting, gathering and maybe even sell a few of the interesting Lincoln FY error coins. Since the early days, Ebay has been the platform to buy/sell these coins. That is true especially today. The supply of easy error coin buys has run its course and a few astute "Believers" have accumulated most of the available coins. If these potential sellers keep the prices somewhat constant and let the coins continue to be obtainable for the average coin collector's budget, then the coin's popularity and collectability will spread. Sometime in the collecting future, one or more marketing sellers (TV, Full page ads in a quality Coin Magazine) will simply buy out one or more of these error accumulations. Then prices will soar based on today's prices and the more desirable WDDR's will eventually settle back down to today's price level or lower. A slow, gradual increase in popularity and asking price will be beneficial among our true collectors and the $$ minded ones will cash out and never look back. Have a great day !! Mark.
<< <i>CORRECTION: I was looking at the wrong box. It is an LP2 with a date of 04/14/09 and a time stamp of 12:32 >>
The good dates you refer to are as follows for those of you that are just getting started.
4/16 for the WDDR 013 (large die crack) which is not a major error but a nice one 4/17,4/27,4/28/4/29, 4/30 for the WDDR 001 and WDDR 002 4/23 for the WDDR 006
Those are the only dates that contain major errors. The other major errors came in bank boxes not LP2 boxes.
<< <i>4/16 for the WDDR 013 (large die crack) which is not a major error but a nice one 4/17,4/27,4/28/4/29, 4/30 for the WDDR 001 and WDDR 002 4/23 for the WDDR 006 >>
Good information from Pitboss. I would direct you to earlier pages in this thread that also give times that are important for each date. As an example, you will only find 013C's/D's
inside of 4/15 late afternoon timed boxes and early morning timed 4/16's from my experience. The other dates that Pitboss mentioned have their specific time frames as well.
Good luck and a doubled thumbs up to the "old" and the "new" believers!
<< <i>Are the bank boxes dated also? Is it a crap shoot with the bank boxes?
All my errors are from the LP2 mint boxes. >>
You will have a hard time finding any bank boxes with the errors at this late a date. i found one box about 2 months ago with the fatal die crack of the WDDR 006 but that was pure luck as these boxes have all been looked at by now or there may be a few still out there but being held at this point. The LP2 boxes come up once in a while but not many have in the past few months. There are still solid rolls of the good error coins showing up from bank boxes now and again and that is your best opportunity to pick up the bank box errors as it can get expensive buying those at todays prices and finding nothing. I know about that as I have bought hundreds of bank boxes. When you figure you will only get maybe 100 errors in a bank box that you have paid in excess of $100 for (if you were to get lucky enough to find and only had to buy 1 box) you could have bought a whole roll of errors for not much more money. Buy only the 7 to 12 key coins not all the dots and dashes.
Yes, bank boxes are a crap shoot these days. Mostly cherrypicked and re-rolled from my experience. Unless you have deep pockets and just love the search (be prepared for some
disappointment. My last two bank boxes had to be returned to the seller. The first because his packing was so bad that several rolls split wide open inside the torn bank box. The second
because the seller sent me "D" mint rolls (box was marked "P") and I think they were hoping I didn't notice or care...had to file a SNAD with Ebay to force the seller to accept the return.
So, make sure you are willing to deal with bad situations and sellers. Pitboss is right on when he says to buy the important errors (50 coin offerings on Ebay) and forget the rest.
Thanks Pitboss and Onedollarnohollar. I never bought the bank boxes but in 09 I did buy a lot to the prime dated LP2 mint boxes when they were abundant for cheap money. Guess you have to know the ebay sellers who are honest for the bank boxes.
No, what you had to know was the region of the country that got which boxes when. It does not matter now as there are not any good boxes available. The LP2 boxes you could tell by the dates and time but some of the bank boxes had specific numbers on them which told us they were likely to hold errors. I got into a whole batch of about 100+ boxes that held the 032 and 025 errors and they all had the same number on them. The same goes for the boxes that had the fatal die crack 006 error. I knew when that box came up on ebay what it held so immediately bought it within seconds of the listing starting. There were very few of these boxes out there.
I just bought an LP2 box TODAY on eBay -- first in a couple months. It is a 4/29 box, time 10:33, code 9774. I will say that this is a marginal date
based on my findings. This may take a week to arrive. Someone may have better intel than I for this time.
When it arrives, I will open the roll and see what bounty it contains. What-ever forumoid that can get the closest to the number of
wddr-001 and 002's can win a pair out of this roll. If there are none, I will donate one or two of mine to fulfill the reward if their prediction
is correct. The first person to predict the correct or closest amount will take the prize.
Only one vote from each member is allowed. This competition is only for forumoids who have positively contributed to this forum prior to this
competition's date. If a non-contributor wins, they will receive a wddr-002, but the next closest forumoid will take the double prize.
AND -- all answers are to be posted publically -- NOT PM's. (sorry PB)
Sponsor reserves the right to make any final decisions in any contestable situations.
MAY THE GAMES BEGIN! Tick-Tock...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
By the way, my son is more than halfway complete with his LP 2 variety hunting. My guess is that we purchased many of them from some of you on ebay.
Ken
American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page
Is person a forum member here? An incredible array of ddr/ddo's.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Yeah... I know the prime players here are like "yo dude, I already have an s-load of these so what the...?" If a winner is a banker of these,
you may donate to another member or a young numismatist of choice. Open to suggestions.
AK
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Is person a forum member here? An incredible array of ddr/ddo's. >>
Thanks AK for posting this. My son and I just placed bids on all of the WDDR LP2s he is missing.
Ken
American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page
Comments
I have increased all my prices dramatically in the last few weeks and am still selling to my loyal customers.
Maybe its time to stop selling them at all until the CPG comes out.
Again, we are not asking for you to be generous and send coins. I am very happy to pay for the ones we need. Let me know which ones you are willing to sell (through a PM) and I will pay you by paypal. I will then update the list - again varieties for all 4 designs.
Kenny's list so far.
001
002
003
004
005
006
007
008
009
010
012
013
015
022
023
024
025
028
030
032
043
046
050
058
060
063
067
071
085
086
Thanks so much!
Ken
Instagram - numismatistkenny
My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.
ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative
2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year
Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.
<< <i>What holes (varieties) need to be filled in his variety quest? I'm impressed with his organizational skills in creating an album with samples and pictures for display and discussion. Those
coin clubs are going to learn something and he's going to gain invaluable experience in both collecting specific coins and addressing these groups with his findings and opinions.
Maybe you can take some pics of what he's presenting and share them with us on this thread. I personally would enjoy that. A doubled thumbs up to both of you!
Most definitely in regards to pictures of his presentation once Kenny is done. Kenny has done some simple show and tell talks at the clubs but I want him to get more comfortable speaking to large groups. Since he has been collecting for 6 years, he fund of knowledge is impressive (proud daddy talking here) on almost all US coins. He is able to hold his own with even with the long time members in the clubs.
He participates in another coin forum group and I would like for him to participate in the Collectors Universe forums. We sent in a request over the weekend but have not heard back. It has been years since I joined CU so I do not remember how long it takes to hear back regarding acceptance. He is great with his digital microscope and I know he would enjoy sharing posts and pictures with collectors here at CU.
Also, thanks for the kind words several of you have shared. I appreciate it and it makes my son feel like a seasoned collector when other collectors acknowledge him.
Instagram - numismatistkenny
My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.
ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative
2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year
Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Interest has virtually disappeared.... and values are not likely to increase, actually, just the opposite. Cheers, RickO >>
I know I'm going to get slammed for the comparison, but the 1955 DDO wasn't even valued in the hundreds of dollars until 10 years after it's discovery.
1972 was only valued at $300 in MS66 in 1995, now it's $1100.
The point being; this is the normal progression of a newly discovered variety. Personally, hanging onto a penny for 10 years is not going to cause me any pain or unhappiness.
So, for those of you needing instant wealth, then your interest has disappeared. >>
15th edition redbook (1962) $95 in Unc. >>
Collectors need to get over the fact that double dies with todays minting process do not look the same as they did in 1955 nor do cars or anything else.
The WDDR 006 will be a very rare coin 10 years from now and with the millions of Lincoln coin collectors looking for them the price will rise as is already started taking place.
Three months ago you could find them for $7 to $10, now they are approaching $30 as word starts to spread.
The WDDR 001 and 002 are not as rare as the 006 but the coat tails will drag them along for the ride.
Trying to find any of these coins now in their LP 2 boxes has become a very hard task as they do not come up for sale very often anymore.;
Good luck to you that have not put aside your share of this treasure while you could at reasonable prices.
Papi pointed this out earlier in this thread about some very interesting die marriages of some of the early and best varieties. They are buried deep somewhere in this thread, and helped me understand how these varieties were connected -- but I'll admit I can't quite remember HOW? I seem to have CRS more and more these days. [PM me if you don't know the acronym]
This needs to be documented and perhaps Ken and Kenny can help do that. Can someone please refresh my memory of the specifics?
One of my fav's that are not on the list is the wddr-013(b) "Massive die crack" that was only found in a very narrow timeframe. I'd be happy to donate one.
The other real "waycool" factoid is the progression of die breaks in the "skeleton" wddr-006 variety. Wexler has how many -- a through h? No photos exist of all of these that I know of.
Helps me out ya'll fo'mative geeks, watz dis' hap'nin, yo?
See?? This is what we need documented in a great FY variety resource.
Ken/Kenny: Your quest to present ALL 2009 Lincoln varieties is admirable -- but personally, the best by no comparison is the Formative varieties. No others compare. I suggest you focus your attention here and not get diluted with the other in the 09 series. Believe us, this in itself is a big undertaking in itself.
Frankly, I don't care about the minutia of the other Lincoln presidential series since they are really so minor that they are a "yawn" to most of the collectors. Pitboss calls these "dots and dashes" varieties that will go into nothingness in infamy. I agree with him [he is the guru here]. Additionally, the minor varieties in the Formatives are "ho-humm" to most of us too. I congrat you on your intent, but don't focus too much effort on something that will never come to anything. A speck on a log cabin end is not a big whoop. An obvious extra finger on Abe is --- WOW.
Yo, AK
<< <i>wddr-013(b) "Massive die crack" >>
It's now the "13C" reverse doubled die with the massive die crack. There is also a 13D (die chip on the top left of the E in ONE added) This is one of my favorites and a very tough one to
find.
So many challenging die stages to analyze and confirm through your loupe on these. Sometimes it gets dizzying but I enjoy the search. Hats off to the researchers that blazed the trail and
identified all of these die markers to follow. That is what I call "concentrated focus".
2009 1¢ FY WDDR-013
Description: A partial extra finger can be seen just above the normal index finger at the knuckle.
Die Markers: Obverse Stage A: A die scratch runs from the upper left W of WE to the rim. A pre-die crack depression runs NW through the eyebrow. Obverse Stage B: A die crack runs from SSW to NNE through the hair on the upper back of the head while another runs from SW to NE through the hair on the upper back of the head. A die crack runs from south to north through the hair at the top of the head projecting into the field SW of the W in WE. A die crack branches from this die crack near the top of the head and runs ENE. A die crack runs NW from the eyebrow into the forehead with a branch curving SW along the back of the eye and another branch running NNW just above the eyebrow. A small die chip can be found just above the eyebrow on the die crack running NNW. A pre-die crack depression runs from NNW to SSE through the upper front of the forehead. A die crack runs from ENE to WSW through the bowtie and then curves south into the vest. A die crack runs from NNE to SSW through the beard and then curves SSE. Obverse Stage C: Same as Stage B. Obverse Stage
generously shared information with everyone here that has followed this detailed conversation. Your contributions in word and gifts to newbies are your "die marker" on this thread.
A doubled thumbs up to you my friend!
<< <i>The lay person-collector has trouble with this as I. Get it? >>
I get it...but Akbeez you are far from a lay person in this series. You are a long time collector (and Ebay seller) of these varieties. I have to believe you've studied the various stages if
for no other reason than to gain an edge for promotional purposes. I think Wexler's site could be improved by photos of the various stages along with the descriptions...especially the
die break stages that would illustrate how dramatic they can be. That said...Wexler's site is the best to date that we have for our research. I've cross referenced many times using his site.
Here's a pic of my Wddr-013 "D" .... dear Mr. Wexler, would this be so hard to do on your site?
and passion about the subject of these varieties through the years. Full recognition by the major TPG's is inevitable because of Whitman Publishing's support and acknowledgement in the Pro
Red Book and the much anticipated CPG that will come out next year. (as I understand it) Of course the fact that the variety experts such as Wexler, Coneca, etc., having compiled
detailed information that legitimizes the fact that they are true doubled dies, goes a long way in keeping the conversation going.
<< <i>
High quality photos cost money. >>
I bet the original photos ARE higher quality but that they just used the same ones they used for print. Probably just photographed the book pages.
Besides that, the profit margin on digital is near 100% after you recover your hourly pay for research and writing.
So, once upon a time.....
I wonder why PCGS went away from grading and labeling doubled die cents.
Just thought this was an interesting listing because of the old green label.
This is what dreams are made of (to paraphrase from "The Maltese Falcon")
Does this time fall within the sweet spot for the 006"s?
Are you going to buy it?
Should be 6 to 12 WDDR 006's in it.
I was lucky last week to pick up three lp2 boxes that I knew would contain the Wddr-013 "stage D" reverse (large die crack variety). I also discovered that the obverse of these have
a small die crack from the top of Lincoln's head to the rim above. Very small but obvious and consistent on every sample I've looked at. That translates to a "stage D" obverse according
to Wexler's description. I've opened up two of the boxes so far and found a total of seven of the extreme errors and lesser stage 13's, some 12's, and catfish abe's with a die cud on the
edge of the book (which I'd never seen before). Well, happy hunting all! P.S. I hope Papi is ok, haven't heard from him for awhile.....
Your LP2 box date sounds like a LP1 box -- are you sure of the date? LP2 boxes came out in April 2009. We will be happy to answer your LP2 box questions.
Cheers!
<< <i>Just found a box of LP2 in my box of misfit items. Time and date stamp on the side is 02/26/09 with a time of 08:12. Anything good to be found in this box? >>
No errors but the unopened box is worth north of $40.
Cheers, AK
My guess is the majority of the major dealers do not have large quantities of these on hand for such a promotion and it seems buying on the secondary market now is beginning to dry up.
This may be evident since most of the mint LP2 boxes are not generally cheap anymore.
These errors may be abundant but seem to be in the hands of only a few collectors. Without major dealer promotions, do you think these will take off?
I personally have my own private hoard but seriously doubt they will appreciate much in my lifetime.
Box of 20
<< <i>CORRECTION: I was looking at the wrong box. It is an LP2 with a date of 04/14/09 and a time stamp of 12:32 >>
The good dates you refer to are as follows for those of you that are just getting started.
4/16 for the WDDR 013 (large die crack) which is not a major error but a nice one
4/17,4/27,4/28/4/29, 4/30 for the WDDR 001 and WDDR 002
4/23 for the WDDR 006
Those are the only dates that contain major errors. The other major errors came in bank boxes not LP2 boxes.
All my errors are from the LP2 mint boxes.
Box of 20
<< <i>4/16 for the WDDR 013 (large die crack) which is not a major error but a nice one
4/17,4/27,4/28/4/29, 4/30 for the WDDR 001 and WDDR 002
4/23 for the WDDR 006
>>
Good information from Pitboss. I would direct you to earlier pages in this thread that also give times that are important for each date. As an example, you will only find 013C's/D's
inside of 4/15 late afternoon timed boxes and early morning timed 4/16's from my experience. The other dates that Pitboss mentioned have their specific time frames as well.
Good luck and a doubled thumbs up to the "old" and the "new" believers!
<< <i>Are the bank boxes dated also? Is it a crap shoot with the bank boxes?
All my errors are from the LP2 mint boxes. >>
You will have a hard time finding any bank boxes with the errors at this late a date. i found one box about 2 months ago with the fatal die crack of the WDDR 006 but that was pure luck as these boxes have all been looked at by now or there may be a few still out there but being held at this point. The LP2 boxes come up once in a while but not many have in the past few months. There are still solid rolls of the good error coins showing up from bank boxes now and again and that is your best opportunity to pick up the bank box errors as it can get expensive buying those at todays prices and finding nothing. I know about that as I have bought hundreds of bank boxes. When you figure you will only get maybe 100 errors in a bank box that you have paid in excess of $100 for (if you were to get lucky enough to find and only had to buy 1 box) you could have bought a whole roll of errors for not much more money. Buy only the 7 to 12 key coins not all the dots and dashes.
disappointment. My last two bank boxes had to be returned to the seller. The first because his packing was so bad that several rolls split wide open inside the torn bank box. The second
because the seller sent me "D" mint rolls (box was marked "P") and I think they were hoping I didn't notice or care...had to file a SNAD with Ebay to force the seller to accept the return.
So, make sure you are willing to deal with bad situations and sellers. Pitboss is right on when he says to buy the important errors (50 coin offerings on Ebay) and forget the rest.
What really amazes me is how sudden the good boxes containing both LP2 and bank boxes stopped showing up on ebay.
It seemed to happen overnight.
POOf they were gone!
I knew it had to happen sooner or later as there were just so many of them available.
Box of 20
I just bought an LP2 box TODAY on eBay -- first in a couple months. It is a 4/29 box, time 10:33, code 9774. I will say that this is a marginal date
based on my findings. This may take a week to arrive. Someone may have better intel than I for this time.
When it arrives, I will open the roll and see what bounty it contains. What-ever forumoid that can get the closest to the number of
wddr-001 and 002's can win a pair out of this roll. If there are none, I will donate one or two of mine to fulfill the reward if their prediction
is correct. The first person to predict the correct or closest amount will take the prize.
Only one vote from each member is allowed. This competition is only for forumoids who have positively contributed to this forum prior to this
competition's date. If a non-contributor wins, they will receive a wddr-002, but the next closest forumoid will take the double prize.
AND -- all answers are to be posted publically -- NOT PM's. (sorry PB)
Sponsor reserves the right to make any final decisions in any contestable situations.
MAY THE GAMES BEGIN! Tick-Tock...
13 001
10 002
12-001's
15-002's
5-003's
9-004's
This is the best catch I've gotten out of a 4/29 box @ 10:33 am with a sort #9883
The worst?
6-005's only out of at 4/29 box @ 10:07 am with a sort #9774
Here's hoping you get something great!
0 - 001s
0 - 002s
07 002
By the way, my son is more than halfway complete with his LP 2 variety hunting. My guess is that we purchased many of them from some of you on ebay.
Ken
Instagram - numismatistkenny
My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.
ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative
2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year
Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.
Is person a forum member here? An incredible array of ddr/ddo's.
you may donate to another member or a young numismatist of choice. Open to suggestions.
AK
<< <i>Wow, who is this eBayer: mfcoinman8z2e
Is person a forum member here? An incredible array of ddr/ddo's. >>
Thanks AK for posting this. My son and I just placed bids on all of the WDDR LP2s he is missing.
Ken
Instagram - numismatistkenny
My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.
ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative
2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year
Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.
listing # 371030638722