Add to that the Penn State Board of Trustees...even though Paterno was fired, the Board speaker at the news conference clearly stated that the facts are not out yet about Joe Paterno, and he didn't accuse Paterno of doing anything wrong. I've already stated this before, if the facts come out against Paterno, then i would change my viewpoint...but there have been no facts or evidence presented yet in regards to any wrongdoing by Paterno.
Once again, the facts are that the coach and the administration allowed a child molester to ruin at least 9 innocent childrens lives. That is the bottom line no matter how you want to spin this unfortunate situation.
BTW: at the Board news conference it was crystal clear that the decision regarding Paterno was about the money, not about anything Joe Paterno did wrong.
If it turns out he did do something illegal, then i will change my viewpoint, unlike too many haters on here who have already thrown him under the bus.
BTW: at the Board news conference it was crystal clear that the decision regarding Paterno was about the money, not about anything Joe Paterno did wrong.
If that is true then the PSU administration and board is even more pathetic than I or most people thought.
PS, I am not sure I would believe ANYONE in that leadership...considering they are implicit in letting a child predator do his thing at will, while they walked around with their cowardly tails between their legs...so that their almighty overrated football program wouldn't be tarnished! Now the egg is on them.
I'd like to summarize stevek's contribution to every thread:
"blah blah blah blah liberal conspiracy blah blah blah blah blah blah the ills of gambling blah blah blah blah blah phillies are the best team in baseball blah blah blah blah."
Please read every thread where he 'argues' and tell me this isn't true.
However, you can't live by a creedo of ethics, clean living, doing things right, etc. and turn a blind eye to what was directly reported to you as the head coach and the acknowledged leader of the university.
<< <i>Add to that the Penn State Board of Trustees...even though Paterno was fired, the Board speaker at the news conference clearly stated that the facts are not out yet about Joe Paterno, and he didn't accuse Paterno of doing anything wrong. I've already stated this before, if the facts come out against Paterno, then i would change my viewpoint...but there have been no facts or evidence presented yet in regards to any wrongdoing by Paterno.
Once again, the facts are that the coach and the administration allowed a child molester to ruin at least 9 innocent childrens lives. That is the bottom line no matter how you want to spin this unfortunate situation.
Robert >>
I've already clearly, crystal clearly, stated that I agree with all the charges filed based on the evidence, and that if they are found guilty in a court of law, they should receive the maximum sentence possible.
The only spin about Paterno so far have been by the haters. but I guess perhaps it seems you want to ignore what the Board speaker stated at the news conference? I'm sure the board speaker knows more than you do about the case.
I never gave Paterno a second, or even first thought before any of this.
Seems everyone in the country, except you and the people who covered up the child molester that they allowed to rape children in their backyard, see the wrong that was done by Paterno and all the leadership involved.
So of course i would not believe anything any of them say...including their board.
detroitfan...I PM'd you about your concern back on August 26th. I'm not PM'ing you again.
You want my opinion on the topic you keep following me around about? Then start a thread on abortion. Then you can "apologize profusely" to me like you said you would on August 26th in your PM.
Sheesh, you guys, come on. I'm not trying to be an azz here. I just have incredibly strong feelings about the subject matter of this scandal.
If you knew me personally, you'd like me. I guarantee it.
I'm sure the board speaker knows more than you do about the case.
What I know is that the former head football coach and "leader" of the university failed to report to the police an account of what a child molester did on the premises of his football/sports facilities.
The former coach also acknowledges he wishes he had done more.
What else do we need to know? The facts are there for all to see.
Why does it have to be illegal? Paterno has held himself to a higher moral standard for over 50 years and been lauded for it. Yet now it is not about the higher moral standard but whether or not his actions were illegal? You really think that is the bar Paterno should be judged by?
While we don't have all facts it appears that McQueary witnessed a small child being raped by an adult and left without attempting to stop the rape or help the child. The next day he reported some portion of what he saw to Paterno. Since McQueary has not been charged with a crime what he did satisfied his legal requirements. Do you judge McQueary by the same legal standard you want to judge Paterno by? Or would you hold McQueary to a different standard?
Of course those of us that think Paterno should have done more are "haters". We are probably all liberals brainwashed by the media as well. LOL. Or maybe we just expected more from Paterno.
I don't really post much anymore; two restaurants and a kid will do that to a person. That doesn't stop you from being any less of a recorded message though. Congrats on all your accomplishments in life.
<< <i>Why does it have to be illegal? Paterno has held himself to a higher moral standard for over 50 years and been lauded for it. Yet now it is not about the higher moral standard but whether or not his actions were illegal? You really think that is the bar Paterno should be judged by?
While we don't have all facts it appears that McQueary witnessed a small child being raped by an adult and left without attempting to stop the rape or help the child. The next day he reported some portion of what he saw to Paterno. Since McQueary has not been charged with a crime what he did satisfied his legal requirements. Do you judge McQueary by the same legal standard you want to judge Paterno by? Or would you hold McQueary to a different standard?
Of course those of us that think Paterno should have done more are "haters". We are probably all liberals brainwashed by the media as well. LOL. Or maybe we just expected more from Paterno.
Robb >>
Robb - I always thought under the law we are supposed to judge everybody equally? In no way, shape or form would Joe Paterno hold himself to a higher moral standard under the law than anyone else.
I'm no lawyer and certainly don't wish to be one, but in courts of law a person's reputation and past history is considered before a sentence is handed out...and while of course this forum isn't a courtroom, I feel strongly that it is very unfair to throw a guy like Joe Paterno under the bus based on accusations which have not been proven.
How embarrassing for yourself to let a stupid sports bias get in the way of good judgement. Your sports idol Paterno espoused "Honor,"(and he even used 'honor' as a selling point to get people to come to his program), and yet he exhibited none of it in this entire scandal, all the while a child predator continued for 12 more years of raping children in Paterno's backyard.
Mark Madden, the writer who broke this Sandusky story back in April 2011, now reports that a new bombshell will come out soon confirming that Sandusky and The Second Mile "Pimped out young boys to rich donors"....
<< <i>I don't really post much anymore; two restaurants and a kid will do that to a person. That doesn't stop you from being any less of a recorded message though. Congrats on all your accomplishments in life. >>
Thanks Lee, even though I know you probably didn't mean it. LOL
Congrats to you on your family, as well as continued success with the two restaurants, in which everyone I've seen who posts about it, raves about the great food, drink and service. I think that shows that even in this tough business climate, when ya work hard and run a business the right way, you can still be successful.
Steve, This isn't about the law. It has been well documented thus far that Paterno did nothing illegal. This is about doing the right thing for a helpless 10 year old boy. Joe Paterno has always held himself and his players to a higher moral standard. He built his entire reputation on it, heck one of his nicknames is "Saint" Joe. To suddenly decide that in this case when the safety and well being of defenseless children were at risk the higher moral standards he held himself, his players and his institution to don't apply is interesting. The presumption of innocence doesn't mean the accused is actually innocent. The preponderance of evidence and victims tells the story quite clearly. The eyewitness account by one of his grad assistants and ex-starting quarterback should have been enough for Paterno to do more than pass the buck up the chain.
<< <i>Steve, This isn't about the law. It has been well documented thus far that Paterno did nothing illegal. This is about doing the right thing for a helpless 10 year old boy. Joe Paterno has always held himself and his players to a higher moral standard. He built his entire reputation on it, heck one of his nicknames is "Saint" Joe. To suddenly decide that in this case when the safety and well being of defenseless children were at risk the higher moral standards he held himself, his players and his institution to don't apply is interesting. The presumption of innocence doesn't mean the accused is actually innocent. The preponderance of evidence and victims tells the story quite clearly. The eyewitness account by one of his grad assistants and ex-starting quarterback should have been enough for Paterno to do more than pass the buck up the chain.
Robb >>
Robb - Your point is valid, and Paterno himself stated words to that effect, but I think it's quite obvious he was pressured into saying it. If Joe was placed on a polygraph machine, I think he would answer that he would do everything he did exactly the same way again, based on the information which was available at the time.
Again briefly...Joe reported it to the university administrator which he had to presume was basically the same as reporting it to the police...Joe had to presume the university administrator would call the police...and that the situation would be taken care of and addressed by them and the police. State law enforcement is not pursuing Joe Paterno and the Board speaker stated (paraphrase) that there was no wrongdoing by Joe Paterno from the information presented thus far...and my viewpoint is based on that, not from any haters or anyone else who sees it differently.
Joe reported it to the university administrator which he had to presume was basically the same as reporting it to the police...Joe had to presume the university administrator would call the police...and that the situation would be taken care of and addressed by them and the police. State law enforcement is not pursuing Joe Paterno and the Board speaker stated (paraphrase) that there was no wrongdoing by Joe Paterno from
While it is true, for the moment, that law enforcement is not pursuing Mr. Paterno, it is laughable to state the the recognized leader of the university, Mr. Paterno, "presumed" someone else would report this to the police.
It is naive to thing Mr. Paterno did not know all the details and facts and did not participate in the cover up, which is what this is.
Most of us outside the PSU "family" get this. I'm sorry to see this happen to anyone, but it has and Mr. Paterno and the rest need to start now to do whatever they can to help the victims, not themselves or the university.
Hard to believe that they have named a coach who has been on staff since 1979 as the new head coach, interim or not. It's clear to most that the administration still doesn't get it. Robert
Have to admit I don't understand the issue here. Is the whole staff now responsible for actions none of them knew anything about? Or are you just blindly assuming that they are part of some conspiracy? I am all for taking actions against those that were aware of what happened. But to lump the entire coaching staff in that category? I am not sure how that is right or justified.
Was listening to Mike Barkan, Philadelphia sports talk radio.
Two things.......
#1 A Boston reporter is stating that Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors. We'll see where that goes.
#2 Barkin did use the holocaust to describe how Joe Paterno is like the Nazi soldiers. Barkan is Jewish, and he said the Nazi soldiers always claimed, "But if I didn't follow orders, I would die". Barkan said Jopa needed to do something more morally, like the Nazi soldiers should have done.
So stevek is not the only one bringing in the holocaust. And those of you who are putting him down because of it should call Barkan and tell him that he is stooping to a new level.
<< <i>Joe reported it to the university administrator which he had to presume was basically the same as reporting it to the police...Joe had to presume the university administrator would call the police...and that the situation would be taken care of and addressed by them and the police. State law enforcement is not pursuing Joe Paterno and the Board speaker stated (paraphrase) that there was no wrongdoing by Joe Paterno from
While it is true, for the moment, that law enforcement is not pursuing Mr. Paterno, it is laughable to state the the recognized leader of the university, Mr. Paterno, "presumed" someone else would report this to the police.
It is naive to thing Mr. Paterno did not know all the details and facts and did not participate in the cover up, which is what this is.
Most of us outside the PSU "family" get this. I'm sorry to see this happen to anyone, but it has and Mr. Paterno and the rest need to start now to do whatever they can to help the victims, not themselves or the university.
Robert >>
Oh yea, like the public hasn't been wrong before about other cases and circumstances throughout history. If it was the old west in the 19th century, I certainly wouldn't want to be innocent, and accused of stealing a horse with you on the posse holding a rope looking for a tree with a strong branch.
Naive in this regard is being quick to pass judgement on an esteemed citizen...not even accused of doing anything illegal and not under investigation...that is naive...and dangerous.
<< <i> Naive in this regard is being quick to pass judgement on an esteemed citizen...not even accused of doing anything illegal and not under investigation...that is naive...and dangerous. >>
The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.
However, he was morally obligated to see to it that more was done with the case. This is where he admittedly failed.
He will serve no time in prison because of this. He will not hang from a tree. He is a free man who made a very bad error in judgement.
So stevek is not the only one bringing in the holocaust. And those of you who are putting him down because of it should call Barkan and tell him that he is stooping to a new level.
That analogy, if it's being used to mitigate or minimize the effects of being sexually abused (which is not the same as the analogy being used above) is ludicrous and in the words of SteveK, it's not even debatable. To stretch and use such an analogy to make a point is really rather gratuitous, and using hyperbole to convolute the matter at hand.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
[The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.[
While that may be correct in the letter of the law (and that remains to be seen), his actions were morally reprehensible and hypocritical for a man who esposed and expected such high moral behavior from the young men he coached.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> While that may be correct in the letter of the law (and that remains to be seen), his actions were morally reprehensible and hypocritical for a man who esposed and expected such high moral behavior from the young men he coached. >>
Would Joe Paterno teach his kids to report wrongdoings to the proper authorities ?
Did Joe Paterno report wrongdoings to the proper authorities ?
I love to listen to these people that say Joe Paterno is God in Penn State. Last time I checked, the President and Board of Trustees have full authority over the college football coach. Last time I checked, the local police departments handle everything that deals with breaking the law.
I didn't know that not only was Jopa the head football coach, but he was the president of the university, and the entire police force around happy valley.
<< <i> Naive in this regard is being quick to pass judgement on an esteemed citizen...not even accused of doing anything illegal and not under investigation...that is naive...and dangerous. >>
The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.
However, he was morally obligated to see to it that more was done with the case. This is where he admittedly failed.
He will serve no time in prison because of this. He will not hang from a tree. He is a free man who made a very bad error in judgement. >>
Paterno did call the police...thru his university administrator. If your house is on fire and you ask your neighbor to call the fire department, you have to presume he is going to do it. How could Paterno fathom that the university administrator would not call the police? It was the university administrator's job and responsibility to call the police and see this thru, not Joe Paterno's.
The moral judgement is your opinion and right now the flaming public's opinion, especially from those who do not like Joe Paterno.
Oh well...anyway...it's spilled milk...nothing can be done about it at this point except to prosecute the guilty, and help the kids recover,
In this case, the "authorities" would be the police not just the AD, especially when he realized absolutely nothing was being done about it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
How naive is it to blindly follow a so called icon?
Robert >>
Now you're being silly...it wasn't Paterno who was in the shower with the kid...if he was, I'd be first in line to bash the living yell out of him...so please stop with the silly remarks.
<< <i>In this case, the "authorities" would be the police not just the AD, especially when he realized absolutely nothing was being done about it. >>
Here's something I really don't understand, and need someone to explain it to me.
How did Jopa "realize" that nothing was being done about it ?? Seriously. I'm clueless. Did someone report it to him that this guy got off scott free ? Is there other evidence ?
Now you're being silly...it wasn't Paterno who was in the shower with the kid...if he was, I'd be first in line to bash the living yell out of him...so please stop with the silly remarks
Not a silly remark. Just stating a fact as I have done in my posts on this thread.
This is why I don't get involved in many of these threads.
You and I will have to agree to disagree.
I hope the healing process will begin now for the victims and the gulity get what they deserve. Thanks.
Paterno did call the police...thru his university administrator. If your house is on fire and you ask your neighbor to call the fire department, you have to presume he is going to do it. How could Paterno fathom that the university administrator would not call the police? It was the university administrator's job and responsibility to call the police and see this thru, not Joe Paterno's.
When you don't see the fire trucks don't you start wondering if maybe you should call the fire department yourself? Or at least check up on it to see if they are on their way? Not sure what the point of even discussing it with you is since you seem to be incapable of even considering that Paterno had a moral responsibility to do more. At this point agree that prosecution and helping the victims is the next order of business.
I imagine when Paterno speaks and says he only knew the vaguest details of what occurred we will get to debate whether he should have asked for more details or if plausible deny ability was the right route to take. I hope that the administrators above him concocted the plan to make the situation go away and then lied to Paterno if/when he asked any follow up questions. I also really hope that he knew nothing about the 1998 investigation and findings. Time will eventually reveal all the details.
Thanks Lee, even though I know you probably didn't mean it. LOL
Congrats to you on your family, as well as continued success with the two restaurants, in which everyone I've seen who posts about it, raves about the great food, drink and service. I think that shows that even in this tough business climate, when ya work hard and run a business the right way, you can still be successful.
You don't get bonus points for taking the high road when you get called out for the countless stupid things you say on these boards.
Also, it seems you have deluded yourself into thinking there is mutual respect between yourself and the people you argue with. I know for a fact that myself, Robb (fergie23), Guy (Boopotts) and many others here have little to no respect for you, and I would venture to say that at least 90-95% of the rest of this board that is familiar with your incessant rambling and preaching think just as little of you not only as a CU member, but as a person. You're certainly entitled to post here, but for the life of me I can't understand why somebody would spend so much time in a place where they are almost universally disliked.
<< <i>In this case, the "authorities" would be the police not just the AD, especially when he realized absolutely nothing was being done about it. >>
Tim - I doubt if you've ever been in college living a major college campus based on some of your remarks, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I would have to imagine, especially with football players, that Paterno constantly, and I mean constantly, was barraged with allegations or complaints about his players, either justified, or unjustified from women just wanting attention...that if he followed up with each complaint, he would never get any work done.
Can't you undestand this basic concept about the situation? You and too many others act as though Joe's life was a vacuum with just this one incident to concern himself with. Over the years I can only easily imagine he has had hundreds or more complaints, problems like this particularly as I mentioned earlier in a post that it was very well known, that some underage high school girls, used to attend the campus campus parties all the time, and let me tell you, and fortunately it didn't involve any of my fraternity brothers or friends, i heard many a story about underage and even adult age women being abused and treatly badly, etc, etc, etc, some accusations of rape...and on top of that the illegal drugs, drinking, gambling, etc, etc, etc that goes on at every college campus. What Paterno had on his plate in regards to this must have been overwhelming, which is precisely why Penn State hires and employs others to perform this type of work. Paterno for the umpteenth time, promptly told the university administrator about the incident, and that was that. Paterno did nothing wrong legally, and in my opinion nothing wrong morally based on his job at Penn State. He was a football coach, a FOOTBALL COACH Tim,, not a guidance couselor, not a school psychiatrist, and it wasn't his responsibility legally or I feel morally to pursue this matter - others dropped the ball on this and are rightly being prosecuted...while Paterno got fired for fumbling when he didn't even fumble.
You seem to be taking a holier than thou attitude as if Joe should have spent so much time and effort over this particular case - THAT WASN'T HIS JOB TO DO THAT, and I guess you're never going to get it. To be honest, it sure appears to me at this point that Joe was railroaded, and I stand by that comment unless the facts turn out otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong, but again...I'm looking at the facts and the evidence ,and not the hearsay and rumor that you seem to be using to form your opinion, and too many others are doing it the exact same way...and that in my view is being naive!
But don't worry about it, i'll still bash your Mets as much as I would have normally whether we agree on this issue or not.
Comments
Once again, the facts are that the coach and the administration allowed a child molester to ruin at least 9 innocent childrens lives. That is the bottom line no matter how you want to spin this unfortunate situation.
Robert
If it turns out he did do something illegal, then i will change my viewpoint, unlike too many haters on here who have already thrown him under the bus.
If that is true then the PSU administration and board is even more pathetic than I or most people thought.
Robert
"blah blah blah blah liberal conspiracy blah blah blah blah blah blah the ills of gambling blah blah blah blah blah phillies are the best team in baseball blah blah blah blah."
Please read every thread where he 'argues' and tell me this isn't true.
However, you can't live by a creedo of ethics, clean living, doing things right, etc. and turn a blind eye to what was directly reported to you as the head coach and the acknowledged leader of the university.
Robert
<< <i>Add to that the Penn State Board of Trustees...even though Paterno was fired, the Board speaker at the news conference clearly stated that the facts are not out yet about Joe Paterno, and he didn't accuse Paterno of doing anything wrong. I've already stated this before, if the facts come out against Paterno, then i would change my viewpoint...but there have been no facts or evidence presented yet in regards to any wrongdoing by Paterno.
Once again, the facts are that the coach and the administration allowed a child molester to ruin at least 9 innocent childrens lives. That is the bottom line no matter how you want to spin this unfortunate situation.
Robert >>
I've already clearly, crystal clearly, stated that I agree with all the charges filed based on the evidence, and that if they are found guilty in a court of law, they should receive the maximum sentence possible.
The only spin about Paterno so far have been by the haters. but I guess perhaps it seems you want to ignore what the Board speaker stated at the news conference? I'm sure the board speaker knows more than you do about the case.
Seems everyone in the country, except you and the people who covered up the child molester that they allowed to rape children in their backyard, see the wrong that was done by Paterno and all the leadership involved.
So of course i would not believe anything any of them say...including their board.
You want my opinion on the topic you keep following me around about? Then start a thread on abortion. Then you can "apologize profusely" to me like you said you would on August 26th in your PM.
Sheesh, you guys, come on. I'm not trying to be an azz here. I just have incredibly strong feelings about the subject matter of this scandal.
If you knew me personally, you'd like me. I guarantee it.
What I know is that the former head football coach and "leader" of the university failed to report to the police an account of what a child molester did on the premises of his football/sports facilities.
The former coach also acknowledges he wishes he had done more.
What else do we need to know? The facts are there for all to see.
Robert
While we don't have all facts it appears that McQueary witnessed a small child being raped by an adult and left without attempting to stop the rape or help the child. The next day he reported some portion of what he saw to Paterno. Since McQueary has not been charged with a crime what he did satisfied his legal requirements. Do you judge McQueary by the same legal standard you want to judge Paterno by? Or would you hold McQueary to a different standard?
Of course those of us that think Paterno should have done more are "haters". We are probably all liberals brainwashed by the media as well. LOL. Or maybe we just expected more from Paterno.
Robb
There seems to be quite enough entertainment here already.
I'm laughing my a$$ off.
<< <i>Why does it have to be illegal? Paterno has held himself to a higher moral standard for over 50 years and been lauded for it. Yet now it is not about the higher moral standard but whether or not his actions were illegal? You really think that is the bar Paterno should be judged by?
While we don't have all facts it appears that McQueary witnessed a small child being raped by an adult and left without attempting to stop the rape or help the child. The next day he reported some portion of what he saw to Paterno. Since McQueary has not been charged with a crime what he did satisfied his legal requirements. Do you judge McQueary by the same legal standard you want to judge Paterno by? Or would you hold McQueary to a different standard?
Of course those of us that think Paterno should have done more are "haters". We are probably all liberals brainwashed by the media as well. LOL. Or maybe we just expected more from Paterno.
Robb >>
Robb - I always thought under the law we are supposed to judge everybody equally? In no way, shape or form would Joe Paterno hold himself to a higher moral standard under the law than anyone else.
I'm no lawyer and certainly don't wish to be one, but in courts of law a person's reputation and past history is considered before a sentence is handed out...and while of course this forum isn't a courtroom, I feel strongly that it is very unfair to throw a guy like Joe Paterno under the bus based on accusations which have not been proven.
How embarrassing for yourself to let a stupid sports bias get in the way of good judgement. Your sports idol Paterno espoused "Honor,"(and he even used 'honor' as a selling point to get people to come to his program), and yet he exhibited none of it in this entire scandal, all the while a child predator continued for 12 more years of raping children in Paterno's backyard.
Shame on you.
FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS
<< <i>I don't really post much anymore; two restaurants and a kid will do that to a person. That doesn't stop you from being any less of a recorded message though. Congrats on all your accomplishments in life. >>
Thanks Lee, even though I know you probably didn't mean it. LOL
Congrats to you on your family, as well as continued success with the two restaurants, in which everyone I've seen who posts about it, raves about the great food, drink and service. I think that shows that even in this tough business climate, when ya work hard and run a business the right way, you can still be successful.
This isn't about the law. It has been well documented thus far that Paterno did nothing illegal. This is about doing the right thing for a helpless 10 year old boy.
Joe Paterno has always held himself and his players to a higher moral standard. He built his entire reputation on it, heck one of his nicknames is "Saint" Joe. To suddenly decide that in this case when the safety and well being of defenseless children were at risk the higher moral standards he held himself, his players and his institution to don't apply is interesting.
The presumption of innocence doesn't mean the accused is actually innocent. The preponderance of evidence and victims tells the story quite clearly. The eyewitness account by one of his grad assistants and ex-starting quarterback should have been enough for Paterno to do more than pass the buck up the chain.
Robb
Will be interesting to see what questions are asked.
Robert
<< <i>If this rumor is true...it's going to rock ALL of college football, not just Penn State. >>
WHAT RUMOR?
Robert
It's clear to most that the administration still doesn't get it.
Robert
<< <i>Hard to believe that they have named a coach who has been on staff since 1979 as the new head coach, interim or not.
It's clear to most that the administration still doesn't get it.
Robert >>
i agree with that
<< <i>Steve,
This isn't about the law. It has been well documented thus far that Paterno did nothing illegal. This is about doing the right thing for a helpless 10 year old boy.
Joe Paterno has always held himself and his players to a higher moral standard. He built his entire reputation on it, heck one of his nicknames is "Saint" Joe. To suddenly decide that in this case when the safety and well being of defenseless children were at risk the higher moral standards he held himself, his players and his institution to don't apply is interesting.
The presumption of innocence doesn't mean the accused is actually innocent. The preponderance of evidence and victims tells the story quite clearly. The eyewitness account by one of his grad assistants and ex-starting quarterback should have been enough for Paterno to do more than pass the buck up the chain.
Robb >>
Robb - Your point is valid, and Paterno himself stated words to that effect, but I think it's quite obvious he was pressured into saying it. If Joe was placed on a polygraph machine, I think he would answer that he would do everything he did exactly the same way again, based on the information which was available at the time.
Again briefly...Joe reported it to the university administrator which he had to presume was basically the same as reporting it to the police...Joe had to presume the university administrator would call the police...and that the situation would be taken care of and addressed by them and the police. State law enforcement is not pursuing Joe Paterno and the Board speaker stated (paraphrase) that there was no wrongdoing by Joe Paterno from the information presented thus far...and my viewpoint is based on that, not from any haters or anyone else who sees it differently.
While it is true, for the moment, that law enforcement is not pursuing Mr. Paterno, it is laughable to state the the recognized leader of the university, Mr. Paterno, "presumed" someone else would report this to the police.
It is naive to thing Mr. Paterno did not know all the details and facts and did not participate in the cover up, which is what this is.
Most of us outside the PSU "family" get this. I'm sorry to see this happen to anyone, but it has and Mr. Paterno and the rest need to start now to do whatever they can to help the victims, not themselves or the university.
Robert
Have to admit I don't understand the issue here. Is the whole staff now responsible for actions none of them knew anything about? Or are you just blindly assuming that they are part of some conspiracy? I am all for taking actions against those that were aware of what happened. But to lump the entire coaching staff in that category? I am not sure how that is right or justified.
Robb
Two things.......
#1 A Boston reporter is stating that Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors. We'll see where that goes.
#2 Barkin did use the holocaust to describe how Joe Paterno is like the Nazi soldiers. Barkan is Jewish, and he said
the Nazi soldiers always claimed, "But if I didn't follow orders, I would die". Barkan said Jopa needed to do something more
morally, like the Nazi soldiers should have done.
So stevek is not the only one bringing in the holocaust. And those of you who are putting him down because of it should
call Barkan and tell him that he is stooping to a new level.
<< <i>Joe reported it to the university administrator which he had to presume was basically the same as reporting it to the police...Joe had to presume the university administrator would call the police...and that the situation would be taken care of and addressed by them and the police. State law enforcement is not pursuing Joe Paterno and the Board speaker stated (paraphrase) that there was no wrongdoing by Joe Paterno from
While it is true, for the moment, that law enforcement is not pursuing Mr. Paterno, it is laughable to state the the recognized leader of the university, Mr. Paterno, "presumed" someone else would report this to the police.
It is naive to thing Mr. Paterno did not know all the details and facts and did not participate in the cover up, which is what this is.
Most of us outside the PSU "family" get this. I'm sorry to see this happen to anyone, but it has and Mr. Paterno and the rest need to start now to do whatever they can to help the victims, not themselves or the university.
Robert >>
Oh yea, like the public hasn't been wrong before about other cases and circumstances throughout history. If it was the old west in the 19th century, I certainly wouldn't want to be innocent, and accused of stealing a horse with you on the posse holding a rope looking for a tree with a strong branch.
Naive in this regard is being quick to pass judgement on an esteemed citizen...not even accused of doing anything illegal and not under investigation...that is naive...and dangerous.
<< <i>
Naive in this regard is being quick to pass judgement on an esteemed citizen...not even accused of doing anything illegal and not under investigation...that is naive...and dangerous. >>
The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went
to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.
However, he was morally obligated to see to it that more was done with the case. This is where he admittedly failed.
He will serve no time in prison because of this. He will not hang from a tree. He is a free man who made a very bad
error in judgement.
How naive is it to blindly follow a so called icon?
Robert
call Barkan and tell him that he is stooping to a new level.
That analogy, if it's being used to mitigate or minimize the effects of being sexually abused (which is not the same as the analogy being used above) is ludicrous and in the words of SteveK, it's not even debatable. To stretch and use such an analogy to make a point is really rather gratuitous, and using hyperbole to convolute the matter at hand.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.[
While that may be correct in the letter of the law (and that remains to be seen), his actions were morally reprehensible and hypocritical for a man who esposed and expected such high moral behavior from the young men he coached.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
While that may be correct in the letter of the law (and that remains to be seen), his actions were morally reprehensible and hypocritical for a man who esposed and expected such high moral behavior from the young men he coached. >>
Would Joe Paterno teach his kids to report wrongdoings to the proper authorities ?
Did Joe Paterno report wrongdoings to the proper authorities ?
I love to listen to these people that say Joe Paterno is God in Penn State. Last time I checked, the President and Board of Trustees
have full authority over the college football coach. Last time I checked, the local police departments handle everything that
deals with breaking the law.
I didn't know that not only was Jopa the head football coach, but he was the president of the university, and the
entire police force around happy valley.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Naive in this regard is being quick to pass judgement on an esteemed citizen...not even accused of doing anything illegal and not under investigation...that is naive...and dangerous. >>
The facts are clear that Jopa knew from McQuery that Sandusky was doing inappropriate acts in the shower. He went
to the president about it. Jopa did what was legally required of him. He will be innocent in a court of law.
However, he was morally obligated to see to it that more was done with the case. This is where he admittedly failed.
He will serve no time in prison because of this. He will not hang from a tree. He is a free man who made a very bad
error in judgement. >>
Paterno did call the police...thru his university administrator. If your house is on fire and you ask your neighbor to call the fire department, you have to presume he is going to do it. How could Paterno fathom that the university administrator would not call the police? It was the university administrator's job and responsibility to call the police and see this thru, not Joe Paterno's.
The moral judgement is your opinion and right now the flaming public's opinion, especially from those who do not like Joe Paterno.
Oh well...anyway...it's spilled milk...nothing can be done about it at this point except to prosecute the guilty, and help the kids recover,
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>You can't have it both ways.
How naive is it to blindly follow a so called icon?
Robert >>
Now you're being silly...it wasn't Paterno who was in the shower with the kid...if he was, I'd be first in line to bash the living yell out of him...so please stop with the silly remarks.
<< <i>In this case, the "authorities" would be the police not just the AD, especially when he realized absolutely nothing was being done about it. >>
Here's something I really don't understand, and need someone to explain it to me.
How did Jopa "realize" that nothing was being done about it ?? Seriously. I'm clueless. Did someone
report it to him that this guy got off scott free ? Is there other evidence ?
Not a silly remark. Just stating a fact as I have done in my posts on this thread.
This is why I don't get involved in many of these threads.
You and I will have to agree to disagree.
I hope the healing process will begin now for the victims and the gulity get what they deserve. Thanks.
Robert
When you don't see the fire trucks don't you start wondering if maybe you should call the fire department yourself? Or at least check up on it to see if they are on their way? Not sure what the point of even discussing it with you is since you seem to be incapable of even considering that Paterno had a moral responsibility to do more. At this point agree that prosecution and helping the victims is the next order of business.
I imagine when Paterno speaks and says he only knew the vaguest details of what occurred we will get to debate whether he should have asked for more details or if plausible deny ability was the right route to take. I hope that the administrators above him concocted the plan to make the situation go away and then lied to Paterno if/when he asked any follow up questions. I also really hope that he knew nothing about the 1998 investigation and findings. Time will eventually reveal all the details.
Robb
Congrats to you on your family, as well as continued success with the two restaurants, in which everyone I've seen who posts about it, raves about the great food, drink and service. I think that shows that even in this tough business climate, when ya work hard and run a business the right way, you can still be successful.
You don't get bonus points for taking the high road when you get called out for the countless stupid things you say on these boards.
Also, it seems you have deluded yourself into thinking there is mutual respect between yourself and the people you argue with. I know for a fact that myself, Robb (fergie23), Guy (Boopotts) and many others here have little to no respect for you, and I would venture to say that at least 90-95% of the rest of this board that is familiar with your incessant rambling and preaching think just as little of you not only as a CU member, but as a person. You're certainly entitled to post here, but for the life of me I can't understand why somebody would spend so much time in a place where they are almost universally disliked.
<< <i>In this case, the "authorities" would be the police not just the AD, especially when he realized absolutely nothing was being done about it. >>
Tim - I doubt if you've ever been in college living a major college campus based on some of your remarks, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I would have to imagine, especially with football players, that Paterno constantly, and I mean constantly, was barraged with allegations or complaints about his players, either justified, or unjustified from women just wanting attention...that if he followed up with each complaint, he would never get any work done.
Can't you undestand this basic concept about the situation? You and too many others act as though Joe's life was a vacuum with just this one incident to concern himself with. Over the years I can only easily imagine he has had hundreds or more complaints, problems like this particularly as I mentioned earlier in a post that it was very well known, that some underage high school girls, used to attend the campus campus parties all the time, and let me tell you, and fortunately it didn't involve any of my fraternity brothers or friends, i heard many a story about underage and even adult age women being abused and treatly badly, etc, etc, etc, some accusations of rape...and on top of that the illegal drugs, drinking, gambling, etc, etc, etc that goes on at every college campus. What Paterno had on his plate in regards to this must have been overwhelming, which is precisely why Penn State hires and employs others to perform this type of work. Paterno for the umpteenth time, promptly told the university administrator about the incident, and that was that. Paterno did nothing wrong legally, and in my opinion nothing wrong morally based on his job at Penn State. He was a football coach, a FOOTBALL COACH Tim,, not a guidance couselor, not a school psychiatrist, and it wasn't his responsibility legally or I feel morally to pursue this matter - others dropped the ball on this and are rightly being prosecuted...while Paterno got fired for fumbling when he didn't even fumble.
You seem to be taking a holier than thou attitude as if Joe should have spent so much time and effort over this particular case - THAT WASN'T HIS JOB TO DO THAT, and I guess you're never going to get it. To be honest, it sure appears to me at this point that Joe was railroaded, and I stand by that comment unless the facts turn out otherwise. Maybe I'm wrong, but again...I'm looking at the facts and the evidence ,and not the hearsay and rumor that you seem to be using to form your opinion, and too many others are doing it the exact same way...and that in my view is being naive!
But don't worry about it, i'll still bash your Mets as much as I would have normally whether we agree on this issue or not.