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Penn State Scandal
KeepItWarm
Posts: 579 ✭
in Sports Talk
Put that hook-nosed piece of trash in jail with the rest of them for not notifying the police.
Old ass man should die in a jail cell.
Toss Mike McQueary in the same cell while you're at it.
EDIT: Changed the title of the thread.
Old ass man should die in a jail cell.
Toss Mike McQueary in the same cell while you're at it.
EDIT: Changed the title of the thread.
South of Heaven...North of Canada
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Comments
<< <i>I do not see how Grahm Spanier and Joe Paterno survive this. There is no way a blue chip recruit would come to Penn State with either of them still there. >>
There's no way, no possibility, that Joe Paterno would have chosen anything regarding hurting a student or player like this, in order to win more football games. He didn't do that 40 years ago and certainly isn't going to ever do that. Paterno has nothing to have to "survive" here. Case closed.
BTW: There are strong rumors that Paterno may retire after this season anyway, and this incident will have nothing to do with his decision about that one way or the other.
I believe it is time for him to step aside.
This scandal has zero to do with this, too. I will never question the character of that great man. It really pains me to see him up there in the press box.
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me.
<< <i>There's no way, no possibility, that Joe Paterno would have chosen anything regarding hurting a student or player like this, in order to win more football games. He didn't do that 40 years ago and certainly isn't going to ever do that. Paterno has nothing to have to "survive" here. >>
I agree with your first sentence here. However, when nothing was done by anyone else to notify the police or social services, by doing nothing further Paterno was (perhaps unintentionally) complicit in the cover-up. His legacy may remain largely intact if he resigns. Grahm Spanier, however, is s dead duck.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police.
JoePa's image is destroyed forever.
<< <i>Embattled former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky continued to be a presence around the Penn State football program up to his arrest Saturday on child molestation charges, including working out multiple times in the team’s weight room just last week, according to multiple sources within the football program. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Embattled former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky continued to be a presence around the Penn State football program up to his arrest Saturday on child molestation charges, including working out multiple times in the team’s weight room just last week, according to multiple sources within the football program. >>
>>
Yikes. I don't care how many wins you have or don't have, allowing someone to have access to your team and your facilities after you know they raped a underage boy...no excuses. He's gotta go. And Penn state fans pretending this won't somehow tarnish his legacy is pure fantasy. Of course it will, how could it not?
<< <i>State Penn are puzzies if Paterno isn't fired today. >>
Yea, and I should have known this was coming as well based on the thread title.
The haters on here who won't give Joe Paterno the benefit of the doubt, and I don't even see where there is any doubt. Paterno properly reported it and that's that...he's not a policeman, he's not in charge of campus police, and he's not in charge of the weight room, and as stated the alleged coach was not even a coach when Paterno was informed of the incident.
I worked out in that weight room numerous times, basically almost every other day for two years when I was up there as a junior and senior. I can't speak for it now, but back then it was totally unsupervised, and anyone could really walk off the street and use it...but that would have been difficult due to parking restrictions and where it was located.
This incident will not in any way, shape or form tarnish the tremendous legacy of Joe Paterno...but the haters, those jealous of Joe and what he stands for, may of course try to do that...and that reflects very sadly on them.
Daniel Shanken/Associated Press
Linda Kelly, the Pennsylvania attorney general, made a plea for other potential victims in the sexual abuse investigation to step forward.
By PETE THAMEL
Published: November 7, 2011
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — The Pennsylvania attorney general, Linda Kelly, said in a news conference Monday that Joe Paterno, Penn State’s legendary football coach, was not considered a target in the sexual abuse investigation that has resulted in the arrest of a former assistant coach and two prominent university officials.
Kelly, who made a plea for other potential victims to come forward, summarized the prosecutors’ case against Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State defensive coordinator who faces a 40-count indictment for allegedly sexually abusing eight young boys. Through his lawyer, Sandusky has maintained his innocence.
She added that the roles played by Penn State administrators Tim Curley, the athletic director, and Gary Schultz, the vice president of business and finance who oversaw the university police, were “equally significant.” Curley and Schultz, who both stepped down late Sunday, were arraigned Monday in Harrisburg, Pa., for charges that include providing false testimony to a grand jury and failing to report suspected child abuse.
Kelly chided them for not coming forth with the information about an alleged incident with Sandusky in the Penn State locker room showers in 2002.
“Those officials and administrators to whom it was reported did not report that incident to law enforcement or to any child protective agency,” she said. “Their inaction, likely, allowed a child predator to continue to victimize children for many, many years.”
Curley and Schultz have denied any wrongdoing.
Kelly said Paterno had cooperated with investigators and fulfilled his legal obligation to pass the information to a superior when, in 2002, a graduate assistant told him about an incident involving Sandusky that he had witnessed in the locker room showers.
According to prosecutors, the first serious chance Penn State had to halt the abuse came in 1998, when Sandusky was still an assistant for Paterno. A mother of an 11-year-old boy Sandusky had befriended at his charity reported to the Penn State campus police that her son had been touched and held by Sandusky in a shower inside the campus’s football facility.
Prosecutors said a “lengthy” investigation — one that grew to include allegations about a second young child being similarly touched by Sandusky in a shower — was carried out by the campus police. But the report offers few details about the nature of that investigation: who was interviewed, whether Paterno or other university officials were apprised of it.
When asked whether Paterno or the university president, Graham B. Spanier, was aware in 1998 of the investigation, Kelly said, “All I can say was that investigation was handled by Penn State University’s police department.”
Paterno’s son Scott said in a telephone interview Sunday that Paterno had not been aware of the 1998 investigation.
Frank Noonan, the former chief of criminal investigations at the attorney general’s office and current commissioner of the state police, said the methods that Sandusky allegedly used were “very common” in these types of investigations. He said it was known as “grooming” victims, and said that the tactic involves someone identifying a child, becoming a mentor, giving the victim gifts and establishing trust.
He added that what was unusual about this investigation is that even after Sandusky “made admissions about inappropriate contact in the shower room” in 1998 to the Penn State police: “Nothing happened. Nothing stopped.”
He said that janitors witnessed a sex act in 2000 and still “nothing changed, nothing stopped” as the janitors did not report it because they feared for their jobs. And finally in 2002 when another sex act was witnessed by a Penn State graduate assistant coach, who reported it to Paterno, the police still were not contacted.
“That’s very unusual,” Noonan said. “I don’t think I’ve ever been associated with a case where that type of eye witness identification of sex acts taking place where the police weren’t called. I don’t think I’ve ever seen something like that before.”
Noonan added that the focus of the case should not be Penn State or football, but rather how Sandusky was not stopped from using the university to help groom young victims, according to the prosecutors’ report.
“This is not a case about football,” Noonan said. “This is not a case about universities. This is a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them and a culture that did nothing to stop it or prevent it from happening to others.”
Curley is taking an administrative leave to defend himself against perjury charges, and Schultz will retire. Their decisions came during an executive session Sunday night involving Spanier and members of the university’s board of trustees.
The possibility of the resignations of Coach Joe Paterno and Spanier was reportedly not discussed at the meeting.
Mark Sherburne, the senior associate athletic director, will serve as interim athletic director.
“The board, along with the entire Penn State family, is shocked and saddened by the allegations involving former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky,” Steve Garban, the chairman of the board of trustees, said in a statement. “Under no circumstances does the university tolerate behavior that would put children at risk, and we are deeply troubled.”
The move was accompanied by the announcement that the university would appoint a task force to appoint external legal counsel to conduct an independent review of the university’s policies and procedures related to the protection of children, and to publicize the findings.
<< <i>I got $50.00 that says this guy puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger before its all over with. >>
I'll take that bet, but you need to pick a date at which we'll settle up.
<< <i>
<< <i>I got $50.00 that says this guy puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger before its all over with. >>
I'll take that bet, but you need to pick a date at which we'll settle up. >>
Difficult to determine. The way our legal system is, this could take years.
I just dont see someone like him going to jail, or going away quietly.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
I agree, i think Joe Pa could of done alot more. I think he is/was very good friends with him and didnt want to rat him out.
This will be Joe Pa's last year, no doubt about it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
I agree, i think Joe Pa could of done alot more. I think he is/was very good friends with him and didnt want to rat him out.
This will be Joe Pa's last year, no doubt about it. >>
Should be his last game. If not, there are going to be some nasty signs made by Nebraska fans (and there will be at least 8,000 of them at the game).
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
I agree, i think Joe Pa could of done alot more. I think he is/was very good friends with him and didnt want to rat him out.
This will be Joe Pa's last year, no doubt about it. >>
Should be his last game. If not, there are going to be some nasty signs made by Nebraska fans (and there will be at least 8,000 of them at the game). >>
He should have resigned Sunday night. Sadly I fear he will try to get through the season intact. His legacy, not so much..........MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
The move was accompanied by the announcement that the university would appoint a task force to appoint external legal counsel to conduct an independent review of the university’s policies and procedures related to the protection of children, and to publicize the findings. >>
A task force to appoint external counsel to conduct a review to be publicized???? OMG what an incredibly fast job of tossing dust in the air until no one can see.
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<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
Paterno did nothing to apologize for - I guess you didn't read the posted story from the Associated Press?
<< <i>
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
Paterno did nothing to apologize for - I guess you didn't read the posted story from the Associated Press? >>
Steve, im new here on the boards and i respect you alot and enjoy reading your posts but your dead wrong on this. When it was brought to Paterno he should of got on the phone with the police at that instant, not gone to A.D. or whom ever he went to. This is alot bigger than someone selling memorabilia or getting free tatoos. This is child abuse.
<< <i>Look on the bright side. Al least Penn State does not participate in that despicable practice of oversigning recruits. >>
Penn State Football Tied For Best Graduation Success Rate Among BCS/AP Top 25 Teams
Penn State Tied With Stanford for No. 10 Among All FBS Teams; Nittany Lions Second Among Big Ten Teams
Nate Stupar
Nov. 2, 2011
UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa., November 3, 2011 -- The Penn State football team is tied with Stanford for the top Graduation Success Rate (GSR) among teams ranked in the Oct. 30 Bowl Championship Series and AP Top 25 rankings, according to data recently released by the NCAA.
Penn State football student-athletes that enrolled in the University from 2001-04 earned a superlative Graduation Success Rate of 87 percent, tied with Stanford for No. 10 overall among the nation's 120 Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) institutions. Penn State's 87 percent GSR was significantly higher than the 67 percent FBS average and was second to Northwestern (94) among Big Ten Conference institutions, according to the NCAA.
Penn State football (8-1, 5-0) student-athletes that enrolled in the University from 2001-04 earned a strong four-year federal graduation rate of 80 percent, also No. 2 to Northwestern (86) among Big Ten squads. The Nittany Lions' 80 percent graduation figure was 24 points above the 56 percent FBS average, according to the NCAA.
In the NCAA's 2009 graduation data, Coach Joe Paterno's Nittany Lions earned the highest GSR and federal graduation rate among teams ranked in the final Associated Press Top 25 poll two years ago.
The GSR is the NCAA's more inclusive calculation of student-athlete academic success. The NCAA rate is more accurate than the federally mandated methodology because it includes incoming transfers and students enrolling in the spring semester who receive athletic aid and graduate, and deletes from the calculation student-athletes who leave an institution and were academically eligible to compete.
Top Football Graduation Success Rates Among FBS Institutions (2011 NCAA data)
1. 97 - Notre Dame
2. 94 - Northwestern
3. 93 - Boston College, Duke and Rice
6. 91 - U.S. Naval Academy
7. 89 - Rutgers
8. 88 - U.S. Military Academy, Miami (Fla.)
10. 87 - Penn State and Stanford
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
Paterno did nothing to apologize for - I guess you didn't read the posted story from the Associated Press? >>
Steve, im new here on the boards and i respect you alot and enjoy reading your posts but your dead wrong on this. When it was brought to Paterno he should of got on the phone with the police at that instant, not gone to A.D. or whom ever he went to. This is alot bigger than someone selling memorabilia or getting free tatoos. This is child abuse. >>
Child abuse in my viewpoint is repugnant and despicable, and if anything, the laws regarding child abuse aren't tough enough. I am a conservative and dislike big government and higher taxes immensely. However, in order to keep these child predators locked up in jail for a longer time, I wouldn't mind one bit if it involved building more prisons and raising my taxes.
Whatever happened here, it would be very hard to believe that Joe Paterno would try to cover this up, or not properly report it, knowing how much Paterno cares about kids. If the alleged criminal punk was still on his coaching staff, I think Paterno would have reacted differently, but since the alleged criminal punk wasn't, then what could Paterno do? He reported it to the university administrators and then it was up to them to take the necessary action.
I'm not sure what more can be said about this as far as Paterno is concerned, especially with the Attorney General not doing anything towards Paterno. If other evidence or facts are presented, then I would have to review all that accordingly as well as possibly changing my opinion on this. But in any event, I don't believe we should be convicting on an internet forum or anywhere a distinguished gentleman such as Joe Paterno who enjoys an impeccable lifetime reputation for helping and supporting kids.
I see your point about Paterno should have notified the police, and I voiced my opinion as to why he probably chose not to do that...but I say let's wait to hear more of Joe's side of the story, although he has already commented on it, and his attorney may tell him not to comment further.
I agree with this...
this is his program (or at least it was)
he is the top dog (or was)
no excuse for this mess under his nose...
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Child abuse in my viewpoint is repugnant and despicable, and if anything, the laws regarding child abuse aren't tough enough. I am a conservative and dislike big government and higher taxes immensely. However, in order to keep these child predators locked up in jail for a longer time, I wouldn't mind one bit if it involved building more prisons and raising my taxes.
>>
are we twins seperated at birth?
--- I read somewhere that he, the accused was on campus just last week spending time with students.
Mon Nov 7, 2011 6:00pm EST
(Reuters) - News that a former assistant to celebrated Penn State University head football coach Joe Paterno has been charged with sexually abusing eight boys has rattled students, fans and alumni across the United States.
Former Assistant Coach Jerry Sandusky has been charged with repeated sexual assault of children over more than a decade. The scandal threatens to tarnish Paterno's reputation.
Here are some key facts about Joe Paterno and Penn State football:
WINNING
Brooklyn-born Paterno, 84, has recorded 409 career victories since taking the reins as Nittany Lions' head coach in 1966, making him the leader in career wins among major college coaches.
Paterno's own playing career was with Ivy League Brown University from 1946 to 1949. He then joined Penn State as an assistant coach in 1950.
He has led Penn State to two National Championship victories, in 1982 and 1986, and seven undefeated regular seasons. Penn State has three Big Ten Conference Championships (one sole in 1994, and co-champs in 2005 and 2008). Paterno is also the all-time leader among college coaches with 24 post-season wins in 37 bowl game appearances.
Paterno is the only coach whose teams have won the Rose, Sugar, Cotton and Orange bowls -- the four traditional New Year's Day bowl games.
PLAYERS
Under Paterno's watch as head coach, the team has counted 78 first-team All-American student athletes. Among those recognized were ten linebackers coached by Sandusky. All of those linebackers were drafted by National Football League teams.
Paterno has seen more than 350 former players sign NFL contracts with 32 of them drafted in the first round.
REPUTATION
Penn State football has never been charged with a major National Collegiate Athletics Association (NCAA) rules infraction. Paterno has long been viewed by many as the leader of a pristine program and a father figure to the athletes.
"Paterno is seen as running one of the cleanest programs in the country that has represented over the period of his tenure the intersection of academics, athletics and strong social behavior," said Dan Lebowitz, executive director of the Sport in Society program at Northeastern University in Boston.
SOURCES: Penn State University athletic website, Penn State University compliance and student-athlete services, Sports Reference LLC, NCAA website.
(Reporting by Lauren Keiper; Editing by Ros Krasny and Greg McCune)
Jerry Sandusky
Sport(s) Football
Biographical details
Born January 26, 1944(1944-01-26)
Place of birth Washington, Pennsylvania
Playing career
1963–1965 Penn State
Position(s) Defensive end
Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1966
1967
1968
1969
1970–1976
1977–1999 Penn State (graduate assistant)
Juniata (assistant)
Boston University (assistant)
Penn State (defensive line)
Penn State (linebackers)
Penn State (defensive coordinator)
Gerald Arthur "Jerry" Sandusky (born January 26, 1944)[1] is a retired American football coach. He served as an assistant coach for his entire career, mostly at Pennsylvania State University under Joe Paterno, and was one of the most notable major college football coaches to never have held a head coaching position. He was honored with Assistant Coach of the Year awards in 1986 and 1999.[2] In November 2011, Sandusky was arrested for 40 counts related to allegations of sexual abuse of young boys over a 15 year period.[3]
Sandusky played for Paterno at Penn State, starting at defensive end from 1963 to 1965. After graduating, Sandusky served as a graduate assistant under Paterno at Penn State in 1966, and then held assistant coaching positions at Juniata College (1967) and Boston University (1968). He returned to Penn State in 1969 and remained there as an assistant coach until his retirement at the end of the 1999 season. Sandusky served as defensive line coach in 1969, became linebacker coach in 1970, and was promoted to defensive coordinator in 1977, holding that position until his retirement. In his years as a linebacker coach and defensive coordinator he coached many outstanding defensive squads, and Penn State gained a reputation for outstanding linebacker play, producing 10 first-team All-Americans at that position, and acquiring the nickname "Linebacker U".
Sandusky spurned opportunities for head coaching positions, including one with the University of Maryland in 1991,[4] in the hope of succeeding Paterno as head coach at Penn State. But Paterno outlasted Sandusky, and is active as of the 2011 season at the age of 84.
His final game coaching at Penn State was a notable game for Sandusky. Penn State faced Texas A&M in the 1999 Alamo Bowl in San Antonio, Texas. Inspired to honor Sandusky, the defense produced an outstanding effort and the Nittany Lions shut out Texas A&M, 24-0, the only bowl game shutout victory for Penn State under Paterno. Sandusky was recognized in ways usually reserved for the head coach. He was doused with a water bucket and carried to the center of the field on the shoulders of his players.[5]
Since retirement, Sandusky has hosted many summer football camps and remains involved in The Second Mile, a children's charity he founded in State College, Pennsylvania in 1977.[6] His son, Jon Sandusky, serves as Director of Player Personnel for the Cleveland Browns.[7][8] Another son, E.J., is an assistant football coach at West Chester University.
Sandusky is married and has six adopted children.[9]
Sandusky wrote an autobiography titled "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story", which was published in 2001.[10] The book includes a quote from ex-Eagles head coach Dick Vermeil about Sandusky: "He could very well be the Will Rogers of the coaching profession."[11]
[edit] Sexual assault chargesMain article: Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal
On November 4, 2011; Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly indicted Sandusky on 40 counts of sex crimes against young boys, following a three-year investigation into allegations that he had inappropriate contact with a 15-year-old boy over the course of four years, beginning when the boy was ten years old. The boy's parents reported the incident to police in 2009.[12] A grand jury identified eight boys singled out for sexual advances or sexual assaults by Sandusky from 1994 through 2009. [13] At least 20 of the incidents allegedly took place while Sandusky was still employed at Penn State.[14]
On November 5, 2011 Sandusky was arrested and charged with seven counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse; eight counts of corruption of minors, eight counts of endangering the welfare of a child, seven counts of indecent assault and other offenses.[15] Penn State athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president for finance and business Gary Schultz (who oversaw the Penn State police department) were charged with perjury and failure to report suspected child abuse by Sandusky. [16][17]
According to the indictment, in 2002 assistant coach Mike McQueary, then a Penn State graduate assistant [18], walked in on Sandusky having anal intercourse with a ten-year-old boy. The next day, he reported the incident to Paterno, who informed Curley. Ultimately, the only action Curley and Schultz took was to order Sandusky not to bring any children from Second Mile to the football building, an action that was approved by school president Graham Spanier. The indictment accused Curley and Schultz of not only failing to tell the police, but falsely telling the grand jury that the graduate assistant never informed them of sexual activity.[19]
Sandusky is currently free on $100,000 bail pending trial. He could face life in prison if convicted of the charges.[20]
On November 6, Penn State banned Sandusky from campus.[21]
i heard it was 40 counts not 20
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<< <i>all a matter of time before Sandusky does what he needs to do... >>
put a bullet in his own head?
<< <i>Somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child. I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you’re a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us. >>
~Pennsylvania state police commissioner Frank Noonan
It's so disappointing. But I get so mad when I think about it, that I'm past disappointment. Paterno should have done more. Joe, your life-long buddy is a suspected child rapist! It's OK to rat him out.
<< <i>
<< <i>Somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child. I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you’re a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us. >>
~Pennsylvania state police commissioner Frank Noonan
It's so disappointing. But I get so mad when I think about it, that I'm past disappointment. Paterno should have done more. Joe, your life-long buddy is a suspected child rapist! It's OK to rat him out. >>
I find it odd that he supposedly ONLY reported it to the AD. If the guy was an EX coach, why would he report up the chain of command like that? The guy doesn't work for the AD anymore, right?
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Sick.
So I suppose no one in the Athletic Department knew nothing about these allegations? Not buying it. No way. Sandusky resigned in 1999. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
"Look on the bright side. Al least Penn State does not participate in that despicable practice of oversigning recruits"
Another useless and pointless post from Markj111. Jealousy and bitterness of SEC teams noted. Now pipe down til baseball season.
Here's an SI story that goes into great detail. In part it reads, " What would you do?
A young man tells you he just witnessed an older man molesting a boy in a shower. The boy appeared to be 10 years old.
What would you do?
There are a hundred other aspects to this Penn State story -- the legend and many good deeds of Joe Paterno, his tense relationship with his nominal "superiors," his longtime friendship with alleged child molester Jerry Sandusky, and the game of telephone that unfolded in State College after the incident. But don't let that obscure the real issue here, the only one that matters. There was an eyewitness to an unspeakable crime. Penn State knew it. And Penn State didn't do nearly enough about it.
The legal case is still unfolding. But Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly said on Monday that the inaction of Penn State athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president Gary Schultz "likely allowed a child predator to continue to victimize children for many, many years."
Kelly also said there is a difference between legal guilt and moral guilt.
We don't yet know who is legally guilty. But several prominent employees at the state university are morally guilty. And one of them is Joe Paterno.
Read the rest.
If Joe truly did know about this alleged punk criminal before, and didn't report it, then I would have to come down hard on Paterno. I'm not going to come down hard on him at all for reporting the incident to the university administrators, and not initially directly to the police and here's a further explanation why, in my opinion. Again, I was there for two years, in a fraternity, and what I saw and witnessed during those two years could fill a book and I'm never going to discuss any of that publicly. And this was just little ol' me, one student out of many thousands of students just basically minding my own business. The only "trouble" I ever got in was needing the school doctor to give me some tetracycline because a girl I dated a few times gave me something to remember her by - LOL.
I'm not ignoring the possibility with Joe perhaps he should have reported it directly to the police, but just explaining it, that I have to believe that he must be overwhelmed almost every day with "problems" and "situations" regarding his football players who by their nature, certainly are prone to get into all kinds of trouble. We once had a co-party with the football fraternity at our fraternity house, and frankly it was easy to see that even though we were no angels, they were definitely in a different class of "rambunctious" than we were, especially with the women they attract being the football players. I can only imagine the "stories" about his players that Joe gets on his desk every Monday morning - LOL.
One thing that happens all the time on college campuses is underage high school girls coming to the parties, pretending to be students, and looking for love...and we were all aware of that and we would be very careful. It wasn't hard to ask a few questions when getting to know the girls when meeting them at a party to figure out that they were not students. But when you're very drunk and feeling a bit horny, then an aggressive underage high school girl can probably get almost any college guy she wants.
I don't think I need to futher elaborate about that, then on top of that you've got the illegal drug use, underage drinking, illegal gambling, fights, occasional suicides, etc, etc, etc, all combined when many thousands of young people are placed together in an environment whereby there is much tuition expense involved and pressure to succeed in passing tests and getting a degree...and a number of students get in some sort of trouble from time to time. So...Joe has a choice of spending almost all of his time talking to the police, or giving these incidents to the university administrators, and trusting them to handle it. So I have to imagine that when Joe heard about this, his first inclination was to simply pass the info to the university administrators, and I still say that was the proper course, the right course, and again probably the expected course with school procedure.
Yes, this is different than a kid getting busted for pot or whatever...but again...it was from a coach who was no longer on his staff, and it was probably one of a hundred allegations that Joe hears about all the time. Joe is not there to play detective, and he did report it properly to the university administrators, and you don't see me defending them - these administrators absolutely dropped the ball on this matter and deserve whatever legal punishment they get, as they are paid and it is their job to properly and especially under the law take care of matters such as this.
If after the reading this, the Paterno haters still wish to hate, well then there's nothing I can do about it. But at this point, considering the evidence and the facts, i believe the haters are barking up the wrong tree when it comes to bashing Joe Paterno.
<< <i>SteveK I really hope you're right on this. It'd be a shame to see such a great career end like this. And I absolutely agree with your policy of waiting to hear all the facts before making a decision, after all we do live in a nation where you're innocent until proven guilty. So like you (and the rest of the world) I'll be watching to see how this unfolds. I am however reminded of an old saying, something about "Where there's smoke...". We'll see. >>
And to add...Joe is a conservative and a strict disciplinarian...and he's got a famous temper especially with refs - LOL, and its obvious he loves and cares for kids as most all of us do. I'd have to believe that while coaching in his staff, if Paterno knew what this alleged criminal punk was doing, not only would Paterno immediately take action with informing the proper channels, that he might even slap Sandusky upside his head in some manner...just my opinion.
I don't really wanna knock too hard anyone's opinion here about what they feel Joe should have done with reporting the incident directly to the police, but I do knock, considering Joe's reputation, integrity, and personality, not giving him the benefit of the doubt...that's all...and we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.
BTW: I saw Sandusky on TV being briefly interviewed by a reporter...franklly, he had a smug attitude and it really hissed me off. Give him a fair trial and if he's found guilty, I hope he rots in prison.
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<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
Paterno did nothing to apologize for - I guess you didn't read the posted story from the Associated Press? >>
You didn't answer the question. If your son was raped by Sandusky in the PSU showers, and you found out that JoePa had reported news of sexual abuse that was committed against your son up to the AD but had done nothing more, would you have him over to your house for Christmas dinner?
Or, let me ask you this: If you catch news that one of your long-time employees has engaged in sexually inappropriate behavior with young boys, do you simply tell your boss and let the matter drop? Do you not follow up with a call to the police? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice here. Just tell us: If you, 'stevek', is in JoePa's shoes, do you handle this the same way that he did?
Paterno is a good man. I don't' think anyone would argue that. But he handled this situation very, very badly.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
Paterno did nothing to apologize for - I guess you didn't read the posted story from the Associated Press? >>
You didn't answer the question. If your son was raped by Sandusky in the PSU showers, and you found out that JoePa had reported news of sexual abuse that was committed against your son up to the AD but had done nothing more, would you have him over to your house for Christmas dinner? >>
Yes, I would consider it an honor and a privilege to have Joe Paterno over at my house for dinner anytime. I've already clearly stated that Paterno in my viewpoint did the right thing and reported the incident properly.
I guess if it happened to your son, you wouldn't have Paterno over for dinner...but you being a flaming liberal, you probably wouldn't have Paterno over to your house for dinner under any circumstances - LOL.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Enough apologizing for JoePa. If this was YOUR son/grandson, would you feel that Paterno has done enough? Would you be willing to sit down with JoePa at TGIFriday's, share a beer and talk about how wonderful PSU's football team is this year? >>
Paterno did nothing to apologize for - I guess you didn't read the posted story from the Associated Press? >>
You didn't answer the question. If your son was raped by Sandusky in the PSU showers, and you found out that JoePa had reported news of sexual abuse that was committed against your son up to the AD but had done nothing more, would you have him over to your house for Christmas dinner?
Or, let me ask you this: If you catch news that one of your long-time employees has engaged in sexually inappropriate behavior with young boys, do you simply tell your boss and let the matter drop? Do you not follow up with a call to the police? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice here. Just tell us: If you, 'stevek', is in JoePa's shoes, do you handle this the same way that he did?
Paterno is a good man. I don't' think anyone would argue that. But he handled this situation very, very badly. >>
You edited your post while I was replying.
I think I already addressed your second paragraph in my other posts...it would depend on the university procedure for reporting such matters. In a small company, yes, I'd go right to the police...in a large company or a university setting, there are likely procedures to reporting incidents that are not of a "quick emergency" situation such as a fire or burglary in progress.
Based on the evidence and facts as they currently stand, yes, I would proceed as Joe Paterno did.
Wonder if the NCAA will investigate if the children were bought dinner before they were ******
<< <i>Pedo State!
Wonder if the NCAA will investigate if the children were bought dinner before they were ****** >>
Why not read the below article before casting any more stones towards one school:
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Out of Bounds: Sexual abuse by coaches violation of athletes, their trust
By Keener A. Tippin II
Your young daughter has a basketball "jones." She absolutely loves the game.
She eats, drinks and sleeps it. She spends hours at a time outside in your driveway dribbling the "rock" and shooting hoops. When she's not playing, she gobbles up anything she can find to read about the sport. No frilly dresses for her, just the replica jersey of her favorite WNBA, NBA or college basketball player. She pleads for you to sign her up to play for a team but you drag your feet.
A coach for a local competitive team sees her playing basketball in the schoolyard during recess and invites her to join his team. You're overjoyed. She doesn't have many friends and her self-esteem isn't the greatest in the world. This will give her a chance to build her confidence, participate in a sport she loves plus perhaps make new friends.
Still, you have reservations.
The coach seems nice enough. Boyish looks. Charming. Says the right things. Appears to have a good knowledge of the game. His teams have done quite well in local, state and national competitions. The list of players who have played for him and gone on to play on the high school team and to receive college scholarships is quite impressive. But what do you really know about him?
You feel compelled to do your homework into the coach's background. And with good reason, too.
Your future All-American's coach may have something other than playbook Xs and Os on his mind. An estimated 15,000 convicted sexual offenders currently coach kids in out-of-school sports, according to Southeastern Security Consultants, a Marietta, Ga.-based company that specializes in background screenings for youth-league coaches.
Need proof?
* Last August a jury in California found a soccer-league commissioner guilty of molesting four boys.
* In October 2002, a soccer coach in New York was convicted of improperly touching an 11-year-old boy and showing him pornographic movies.
* In 1999 a high school football coach in Texas pleaded guilty to charges of sexual assault for a series of sexual encounters with a 16-year-old female student.
* A study by the Houston Chronicle identified 64 Texas high school and middle school coaches who lost their jobs through termination, resignation or reassignment as a result of alleged sexual misconduct involving students or other minors between December 1996 and February 2001.
* A 1998 Education Week search of newspaper archives and computer databases found 244 cases in a six-month period involving allegations ranging from unwanted touching to sexual relationships.
According to Robert Shoop, a Kansas State University expert who has studied sexual harassment and abuse in schools, this abuse isn't just limited to coaches. Band directors, music teachers or anybody who has access to your child in a private environment outside of the school setting could also be a predator as well. Unfortunately, the inordinate amount of time spent practicing for these extracurricular activities gives these abusers much greater access to your child than that by regular teachers.
"If you are in a science classroom and you just see the child for one hour a day, you have less frequent opportunity than if you are the coach and you see the kid everyday for three hours and go on trips and sometimes stay overnight out of town with the child," said Shoop, a professor of educational administration and an educational law expert.
But that's not to say your kids are any safer in school classrooms. Reported incidents of teacher-student sex cases are becoming more and more common. Shoop said that these cases are probably the tip of the iceberg in regards to the number of cases; however, no national studies exist to discuss how prevalent a problem it truly is. Yet, he said the scandal is comparable in magnitude to (but has been overshadowed by) the incidents of alleged abuse committed by priests in the Catholic Church.
"In the last five years, there have been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases of children or adults who are reporting things that happened when they were a child," Shoop said. "There were almost no reports of those events during the time that children actually were abused."
"The same thing's happening in schools -- there's a proliferation of reporting right now," he continued. "You can hardly go a day without reading in some community some child is now bringing a case against a teacher for sexual exploitation."
Shoop said there is some belief that reports of abuse are becoming more frequent because of the publicity and the likelihood that they will be believed.
According to Shoop, this sexual exploitation or inappropriate relationship between a coach and athlete can include sexual harassment which comes in the form of either quid pro quo, which means the teacher actually propositions the student and has sexual intercourse, to what's called hostile environment which includes inappropriate touching, sexual comments, sexual language or showing the student sexual materials. Sexual molestation typically means having sexual intercourse with a child and the "child" is defined in each state by specific age.
Shoop said often a power paradigm is involved, with the coach having some sort of authority over the student or athlete, creating an internal conflict within the student and making it difficult to resist that kind of power. Often, fear is also a method used.
"In many of the cases, teachers or coaches have been arrested and it's determined that they have been having sexual intercourse with children for 15 or 20 years and nobody ever reported it before until one child finally comes forward," Shoop said. "Once that child reports it, very frequently a whole series of other people come forward saying 'yeah, he did that to me too and I was afraid,' or 'he did that to me too and he told me if I told anyone he would hurt me or hurt my family' or so on."
Shoop said although the vast majority of abuse cases occur between male teachers or coaches and female student athletes, female teacher to male student and same sex abuse from student to teacher can occur as well. He said female teacher to male student abuse occurs probably 5 percent of the time or less, but receives a lot of publicity disproportionate to the percentage. He cites the highly publicized case of Mary Kay Letourneau and her 13-year-old lover or that of Tanya Hadden, a 33-year-old California high school teacher who went to Las Vegas with a 15-year-old male student.
"Those two cases received national news coverage for weeks where the case of the male having sex with the female student often receives one news story in a local paper and then isn't picked up on a national wire," Shoop said. "But the molestation of female teacher to male student is somewhat different than that of a male teacher typically to a female student."
Shoop said this "double standard" is also apparent in sentencing of offenders as well. He said a male arrested for having sex with a female student is typically sentenced between 10 and 20 years in prison; a female arrested for having sex with a male student often receives probation or significantly less jail time.
"The difference still seems that society has a double standard in that a woman is to be protected from sexual activity but a man is supposed to want, desire and benefit from sexual activity," Shoop said.
According to Shoop, 20 or 30 years ago, if a female teacher was having sex with a male teenage student, chances are the father would visit the teacher and encourage her to put an end to the trysts; others would congratulate the youth's sexual conquest with an older woman. Shoop said still today, society in general doesn’t understand the harm that occurs to a child -- both male and female -- abused by a person in power.
"Even now, there's a recent case where a judge basically said that there wasn't really any harm done," Shoop said. "I think the idea of a man raping a woman is pretty well agreed upon as an egregious event. But a woman raping a boy for some people it's hard to imagine that that actually could occur. And the difficulty is, is because people don't understand that power paradigm and how the teacher has so much power over the child in these molestation cases they almost never occur with physical violence or somebody dragging a person into a room and raping them. It frequently occurs where the relationship develops over a period of months through a cultivating and grooming process so that by the time intercourse actually occurs the child believes that it's in their best interest and doesn't really understand that they are being abused."
Shoop said it is dangerous to stereotype predators because any teacher can be a predator; not one mold fits all. However, one general criteria that most have is they are frequently very popular, charming, gregarious, vivacious people who are often very good teachers and very good coaches.
"That doesn't mean that good coaches molest children," Shoop cautions, "but it means if you are a popular teacher, you are above suspicion and you can get away with a lot of behavior because people just assume you are a good guy or a good woman. Plus, children look up to you and respect you and defer to you and it's very traditional."
While there are no general characteristics among perpetrators, there is a common thread among their victims: Low self-esteem. Victims are often not the star quarterback from the football team or the basketball team's star center, but instead students who lack self-confidence are more vulnerable to flattery and a teacher's positive interaction.
"There is some data that says the perpetrator does not pick a child who rejects their first contact," Shoop said. "In other words the first contact that the teacher makes with that child is usually less overt by putting a hand on them or talking to them in an inappropriate way. If that kid says, 'hey back off' or 'don't do that' or just walks away that teacher will find another victim. But if that child doesn't resist and doesn't stand up for himself, the teacher will escalate that behavior.
"Children who are assertive, who know appropriate behavior and know that no one has the right to touch them or to have a sexual relationship with them, are much more likely to defend themselves," Shoop continued. "Children who lack self confidence are more vulnerable to flattery and a teacher's positive interaction."
Shoop is regularly consulted on issues pertaining to educational law, risk management and sexual harassment prevention. He is the author or co-author of 14 books including "Sexual Exploitation in Schools: How to Spot it and Stop it" and more than 100 journal articles, monographs and book chapters about legal issues. He has also produced award-winning video programs designed to eliminate sexual harassment in public schools and businesses.
Summer 2003