Students show support for Joe Paterno By Brian Bennett ESPN.com
Students rally in support for Joe Paterno outside his house
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- Stefano DiPietro first heard about the rally on Facebook around 2 p.m. Fellow Penn State students were heading to Joe Paterno's house at dusk to show support for the coach when he returned from practice.
Students demonstrated their support of Joe Paterno outside of his house Tuesday night.
"From there, I just tried to relay it to as many people as possible on text, Facebook, Twitter, whatever," said DiPietro, an 18-year-old freshman. "None of us want to see Joe leave. We all love Joe."
The love was evident as several hundred students crowded around Paterno's house, located just a couple of blocks from campus. Chants of "We are Penn State!" and "Joe Paterno!" filled an otherwise quiet, darkened street.
The 84-year-old coach looked happier than any senior citizen ever to have kids trample his lawn. He exited the passenger side of a white university van to thank the students in his driveway. A few minutes after that, he opened his front window to say a few more words as the crowd surged forward to hear him. And just when everybody was about to disperse some 30 minutes later, a grinning Paterno walked out the front door to address the students one more time.
"I can't tell you how much this means to me," he said. "I've lived for this place. I've lived for people like you guys and girls."
After the rally at Paterno's house, a portion of the crowd went to stand guard by his statue at Beaver Stadium before marching to Old Main, the school's administration building. Students walked onto College Avenue before being moved off the street by police in riot gear, and they reassembled at Old Main as their numbers swelled into the thousands.
Around 11:30, the crowd marched back to Beaver Stadium, where several thousand gathered around the Paterno statue until well after midnight. Other than a few overturned garbage cans by the stadium, the demonstrations appeared to be mostly peaceful.
Support for Paterno among the student body appears to remain high, even as the entire Penn State community struggles to deal with news of the child molestation allegations against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, a scandal that has put the coaching legend's career in jeopardy. Paterno asked the students to say a prayer for the alleged victims, adding that "it's a tough life when people do certain things to you."
But that's about all he had to say concerning the charges surrounding his former assistant or his role in allowing Sandusky to avoid investigation or arrest for so long. According to grand jury documents, Paterno told athletic director Tim Curley about an eyewitness account of Sandusky allegedly raping a boy in a locker room shower in 2002. But as far as we know, Paterno did nothing else to intervene, and he declined to answer any questions Tuesday after his scheduled news conference was scrapped. His son, Scott Paterno, said the coach could speak to reporters or release a statement Wednesday.
The scandal -- which has already led to felony perjury charges for Curley and administrator Gary Schultz and may cost school president Graham Spanier his job -- has rocked this bucolic college town to its core. Yet most students seem willing to forgive Paterno and don't want to see him take the fall.
"Don't get me wrong," sophomore Gabriella Justin said after attending the rally. "It's a tragedy, everything that happened. But we support JoePa. JoePa is a part of Penn State."
Some students seemed blissfully unaware of the controversy on an unseasonably warm, cloudless November day that was perfect for throwing a Frisbee on a campus green or grabbing a waffle cone at the Berkey Creamery. But the sight of reporters, as well as scattered protests, was unmistakable.
Lauren and Michael Acquaviva brought their baby to their protest on the campus. Asher Evans was part of a loud, if small, group of demonstrators who marched through campus asking other students to join them. They remained a quartet, with three members carrying protest signs and the fourth slapping a conga drum as they yelled about the abuses that had taken place.
"We hope to increase awareness and recognition that what happened here is not OK," said Evans, a 33-year-old graduate student.
But Evans' beef lay more with upper administration then Paterno. The same held true for Vanessa Hall, who hoisted a sign outside the HUB that read: "Schultz, Curley and Spanier: You are not PSU!" The 21-year-old senior said she didn't want university money going toward the legal defense of Schultz and Curley and that she thought Spanier had "tarnished the reputation" of Penn State. But she was upset about reports that Paterno could be forced out.
"JoePa deserves our support for all the time, money and effort he put in the school," she said. "I would really hate to see him go with this ending after all he's done for us. Then again, I'm graduating, so I've already had my JoePa."
At Old Main, some protestors sat on the building's steps holding signs. Others watched them from a nearby stone ledge, checking their phones for news.
"It's a lot of shock, a lot of being hurt," sophomore Dillon Smith said. "Truthfully, it's hard to focus with everything going on. Twitter is constantly blowing up with updates here and there, and reporters are interviewing students all over the place."
Smith and his two friends, sophomores Zach Mandell and Brett Larter, planned to stay camped at Old Main to get across their message, which was that the administration's actions did not reflect the entire university. But they did not blame Paterno.
"He deserves a better ending than this," Larter said.
Brett Larter, Dillon Smith and Zach Mandell want the administration held accountable. Michael and Lauren Acquaviva were the rare people interviewed for this story who wanted Paterno held accountable. Lauren grew up in State College and graduated from the school last year, while Michael is a graduate student. The kind of couple who finishes each other's sentences, the Acquavivas brought their 10-month-old son, Matthias, and a protest sign to the Old Main steps.
"If something like this happened to my son and people knew about it but chose not to do anything, I feel they'd be nearly as responsible as the person who did it," Lauren Acquaviva said. "What's Paterno's motto? Victory with honor?"
"There's just no honor here," Michael Acquaviva said.
Paterno is integral to the entire campus. His name is on the library he helped build. The first sight greeting visitors to the Penn State bookstore Tuesday was a display prominently featuring a Paterno biography titled "Pride of the Lions." (Sandusky's book, cringingly titled "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story," is no longer on shelves.) The campus creamery still sells a flavor called Peachy Paterno.
Then there's the ultimate sign of what Paterno created in his 46 years as Nittany Lions head coach: Paternoville. Since 2005, students have formed a tent city outside the Beaver Stadium gates so they could grab a coveted front-row seat for a home football game. By Tuesday afternoon, more than 60 tents were set up in anticipation of Saturday's home finale against Nebraska.
Chad Lear and his buddies arrived Monday evening to snag a spot in the front. He is hoping the game-day atmosphere isn't diminished by the controversy.
"It's the biggest game of the year so far for Penn State, and I think it's unfair to punish the team," the senior said. "I know I'll be yelling the same as I'd normally be. I know others won't be as enthusiastic."
Freshman Susanna Nieroda was holding down the fort in a large tent Tuesday evening, taking a shift while her friends tended to other things. She didn't see any reason why things would change this weekend.
"I don't think it will dampen our spirits," she said. "We like football for a reason."
The reason football is so big at Penn State -- heck, most of the reason Penn State is so big -- traces directly to Paterno. It shouldn't come as a surprise, then, that so many students would remain unwavering in their loyalty in the midst of such a devastating scandal.
"I don't think you can find another school that would do this for their head coach," DiPietro said. "We have a lot of spirit, and we believe in Joe."
Brian Bennett covers the Big Ten and Notre Dame for ESPN.com.
Interesting that the puke left wing liberal media finds a few Penn State alums out there that badmouth Joe Paterno and burn their Penn State diplomas, but unless I missed it, I didn't see one mention of the above strong student support for Joe.
Left wing propaganda spin, biased reporting as always from the "usual suspects" in the left wing media who certainly don't like Joe Paterno and what he has stood for all of his life. The "silent majority" is about to rise up again, and not just with this!
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police. >>
You think that if that 10 year old kid was Joe's grandson he would have stopped with just reporting it to his so called bosses?
I will say it again...if McQueary, Paterno and anyone else with knowledge of the offenses dares show up in that stadium this Saturday...they will (hopefully) get the reception they deserve.
How could any REAL man show up and take part in a stupid football game knowing that he has failed innocent children so badly. A real man would have resigned on Monday morning.
I couldn't do it. Of course, I couldn't go on with my life for 10 years saying "good morning" to a child rapist every day either. Evidently, Paterno and McQueary and all the others can.
<< <i>I will say it again...if McQueary, Paterno and anyone else with knowledge of the offenses dares show up in that stadium this Saturday...they will (hopefully) get the reception they deserve.
How could any REAL man show up and take part in a stupid football game knowing that he has failed innocent children so badly. A real man would have resigned on Monday morning.
I couldn't do it. Of course, I couldn't go on with my life for 10 years saying "good morning" to a child rapist every day either. Evidently, Paterno and McQueary and all the others can. >>
No, but you can mock those that stand up for the rights of unborn innocent children. And, you think it's hilarious.
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police. >>
You think that if that 10 year old kid was Joe's grandson he would have stopped with just reporting it to his so called bosses? >>
yea, yea, yea...but he wasn't his grandson now was he. That's a tired liberal type hypothetical argument for almost any situation involving anything. You could make almost any situation "personal" and people would react differently than if it wasn't personal, which is exactly why our country is going broke thru progressive liberal "good intentions" too much of which our country cannot afford. Flaming liberal Boopotts already sorta brought this up in a more cleverly worded way because he is so highly intelligent...just ask him and he'll tell you that - Boopotts is a liberal elitest in the true sense of the term.
What about you? What about the next time you see some mother verbally abusing her child in a supermarket...are you gonna call the police? What about the next time you see a father smack his child in a shopping mall...are you gonna call the police? How about would you at least report the incident to a security officer? No you probably wouildn't, but Joe Paterno did - he reported the discussed incident to the university administrator who was supposed to be in charge of handling situations such as this. And of course the situation involving Paterno was different than a mother verbally abusing her kid or a father smacking his kid, but child abuse, is still child abuse. So next time you post, please fill us in on all the parents in the supermarkets and malls that you so righteously called the police on, and had them arrested...perhaps you'll become known as the Don Quixote of the CU forum.
And gee, lemme guess, you don't like Joe Paterno, right? What about if Knute Rockne would have done exactly what Joe Paterno did? You wouldn't even be posting in this thread now would you? LOL
<<< No, but you can mock those that stand up for the rights of unborn innocent children. And, you think it's hilarious. >>>
That always struck me as odd that most liberals, especially most of the liberal elite, want to bring all their "good intentions" to society, even when we cannot afford it, and we have to beg China and others to lend us money to do so, while our financial system gets closer and closer to collapsing and that would cause untold pain and suffering to the majority of people's lives and their families...while most liberals couldn't care less about unborn life.
Yea, send Sandusky to jail which we all agree on if he is proven guilty in a court of law...but the guy who kills 20 unborn babies a day in the abortion clinic, he gets paid and goes home to enjoy a nice dinner with his abortion fees that he charged.
I know what I see on tv. So, I probably know about 1% of the situation, which is about the same as the rest of you. I'll tell you all that I am a southern boy, and I've had Joe Paterno shoved down my throat for 40 years as to what a great guy he is and such a great coach, and every time I see an interview with him he just seems like a pompous windbag. But, being from the south, that's probably my spin on it. I see Bobby Bowden as a likeable good-ol-boy, and perhaps folks from the northeast see him as a country bumpkin. I really have no idea. But, as much as I have disliked Penn State and Joe Paterno ever since they beat my LSU Tigers in the Orange Bowl in 1974, I would not fire him now. Why not? Well, last I checked, Penn State is in the United States of America. The legal system we have says "innocent until proven guilty". We don't know the details of what happened. We don't even know if Sandusky did anything. He might be as innocent as all of us. We also don't know what happened when Paterno reported the incident. You may think you know, but you really don't know. If it turns out that Paterno is covering for his buddy or he just was completely negligent, then yes, he should go. But, what if he wasn't? What if he was told that the police were investigating it? What if he was told by his administrators that they were handling it with the police? Joe was in his mid-70's at the time, and wasn't exactly full of energy. He might have felt that younger, better trained experts in that sort of thing would be better for handling that situation than a football coach. All of this is hypothetical, of course. But, I ask you this: If something were to occur at your workplace, wouldn't you expect for a full investigation to be conducted and for justice to be served BEFORE you got fired?
You're not very bright are you? Trying to get us off track from the real issues because you cannot accept the fact that I couldn't care less what you type from your grandmas basement, eh? Get out of your pajamas, put down the juice box and go to work. Or are just now waking up in your tent on Wall Street?
Actually, I'm happy to see you posting here. I had completely forgotten how much I enjoy watching you make an azz of yourself.
Any time you see grown men defending the indefensible, it's a safe bet that sports figures are involved.
Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living.
Joe Paterno's legacy is that he preached to his players do the right thing and he weaseled out of one of the most important conflicts from his own life, allowing lord knows how many children to have their childhoods ruined. Spin it anyway you want, the man is a pure weasel and doing the bare minimum to avoid prosecution doesn't change that.
I don't consider it to be a political issue, but if it were it would be even more foolish to defend his actions considering how Republicans are generally the ones wanting to protect children from "smut." Well Paterno had a chance to protect children having "smut" acted upon them and he looked the other way. Apparently he isn't much of a man or a Republican.
<< <i>Any time you see grown men defending the indefensible, it's a safe bet that sports figures are involved.
Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living.
Joe Paterno's legacy is that he preached to his players do the right thing and he weaseled out of one of the most important conflicts from his own life, allowing lord knows how many children to have their childhoods ruined. Spin it anyway you want, the man is a pure weasel and doing the bare minimum to avoid prosecution doesn't change that.
I don't consider it to be a political issue, but if it were it would be even more foolish to defend his actions considering how Republicans are generally the ones wanting to protect children from "smut." Well Paterno had a chance to protect children having "smut" acted upon them and he looked the other way. Apparently he isn't much of a man or a Republican. >>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
<<<<< Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living. >>>>>
I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but the facts are that Paterno did not witness the incident and the alleged pervert was not in Joe's coaching staff at the time. I may be wrong, and I really don't know about the personal relationship between Paterno and Sandusky, but even though they worked together for a long time, just a hunch that Sandusky was not his close friend. So I can't see any fathomable reason at all why Joe would cover up for this guy and look the other way. Joe quickly told the university administrator about the incident and Joe would have to presume the administrator took care of the problem. You are entitled to your opinion, but come on now...by no definition had Paterno "looked the other way" about this incident as you stated.
<< <i>I agree...I want to apologize for detroitfan....let's get back to it... >>
Dang, you had to go ahead and do that after I promised myself that I would never invite you on our "southern Michigan area board member trip to Gibraltar" someday (along with Boopotts, fiveniner, tabe, RoarIn84, etc). OK, you're back on the list, now we just have to make it happen.
Ironically, I did enter my previous post from my basement in my pajamas (had a 6:30 AM conference call with India and didn't want to wake the kids). But it was my own basement, not my ancestors! And it was Diet Coke, not a juice box.
OK, I'm good, you're good, we're all good. Carry on.
I think this will clear things up as far as Joe's behavior. I'm not as smart as Boopotts or some of you liberals here, so it took me awhile to think of it. I believe in Joe's mind he was technically calling the police when he contacted the university administrator. IE: he had to presume that the university administrator would call the police....so realistically it can be stated in my opinion that Joe did call the police...just because he didn't pick up the phone to do it, doesn't mean he didn't place into action what was required to call the police...see what I'm saying?
So in my viewpoint all the bashing about Joe not calling the police is now mute. Case closed.
So when Jerry Sandusky admitted to showering with young boys in 1998 and "the fix" by Penn State was to tell Jerry he could no longer shower with young boys. That was good enough? He and Paterno just went right along coaching for another year?
Then, in 1999, he flat out retires? A man in his 50's? At the top of his game? Linebacker U? He just retires? And never coaches again? Other schools wanted him! But nope, he just retires to "devote more time to his charity". I call total BS on that. I believe Paterno and Penn State knew Sandusky was a child predator as far back as 1998.
It's just my opinion, but there is nothing out there to cause me to believe otherwise.
<< <i>So when Jerry Sandusky admitted to showering with young boys in 1998 and "the fix" by Penn State was to tell Jerry he could no longer shower with young boys. That was good enough? He and Paterno just went right along coaching for another year?
Then, in 1999, he flat out retires? A man in his 50's? At the top of his game? Linebacker U? He just retires? And never coaches again? Other schools wanted him! But nope, he just retires to "devote more time to his charity". I call total BS on that. I believe Paterno and Penn State knew Sandusky was a child predator as far back as 1998.
It's just my opinion, but there is nothing out there to cause me to believe otherwise. >>
I'm not going to reread the news stories, but Sandusky was questioned by the police around that time, might have been earlier or later. So the police questioned him and released him with no charges being filed - you can go thru the news stories and find it if you want.
Were the police corrupt? That is a question which has to be asked. In any event, I'm not interested one bit is sticking up for anyone else in this matter except for Paterno who I believe to be exemplary. I can't see any fathomable reason that Joe Paterno would keep on his staff, associate with, or cover up for anyone he thought was a child molester in any way, shape or form. It just doesn't make sense, and it doesn't matter what generation Paterno is from or how old he is - that is just plain silly to think that about this particular gentleman.
That being said, if the evidence and facts show and prove otherwise, then I would change my view about Paterno...however I'm not expecting that to happen in the least.
Here is what the sporting press is writing about this matter: Gregg Doyel, CBSSports.com: “This scandal has turned campus into Bizarro World, a place where up is down and wrong is right and Joe Paterno is serenaded by students who were roughly the same age, in 2002, as Sandusky's alleged shower victim. Meanwhile, off campus, people are horrified. It seems to be the dominant opinion elsewhere that Paterno, like the handful of other Penn State officials with knowledge of the alleged assault -- the grad assistant who saw it, the athletics director who was told about it -- concerned themselves only with the minimum legal standards in 2002. The moral minimum would have been to call the police. Nobody did.”
Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports: “If Penn State’s Board of Trustees has, as reported, decided that Joe Paterno’s career as Penn State’s coach will end in this, his 46th season, then the move needs to be made immediately, prior to Saturday’s game against Nebraska. It then needs to be followed by the firing of school president Graham Spanier. The New York Times reported the icon’s tenure will be over ‘perhaps within days or weeks,’ the casualty of a widening sex abuse scandal that has imploded the once tranquil world of Penn State football. There’s no reason to wait. The debate over Paterno’s moral culpability in not informing police in 2002 after a then-graduate assistant told Paterno of ‘something inappropriate involving (former defensive coordinator Jerry) Sandusky’ during an ‘incident in the shower of our locker room facility’ will wage forever.”
Andy Staples, SI.com: “Paterno claims to be a teacher. He always talks about his kids when referring to his players. Someone who truly cared about kids would have done more. He would have pestered (athletic director Tim) Curley for an answer about what happened to the accusation. He would have called the police. He would have confronted Sandusky. Instead of that, Paterno let Sandusky keep coming back. On Monday, Yahoo! reported that Sandusky was spotted in the Penn State football complex as recently as last week. Even if the accusation was false, Paterno had a responsibility to make sure it was thoroughly investigated. He didn't. He stuck by Sandusky instead of worrying about the child.”
Jason Whitlock, FoxSports.com: “We worship corporations and institutions. Our Supreme Court granted them First Amendment rights. The Fourth Estate, the alleged watchdogs of democracy, acts as their mouthpiece. There should be no surprise that protecting Joe Paterno, Penn State, Happy Valley and Linebacker U — profit-generating institutions at the core of big-time college athletics’ amateur myth — appears to have taken precedence over the protection of children. It’s the era we live in. Institutions are valued more than human beings. Safeguarding JoePa, marketing and exploiting his march to victory 409, appears to have been more important than exposing allegations against longtime defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, charged with sexually abusing teenage boys.”
Lisa Olson, FanHouse: “The current players have been unfairly tossed into the vortex of this heinous scandal involving alleged sexual acts committed against young boys by Jerry Sandusky, the once legendary former defensive coordinator, and the ensuing inhuman and immoral response by a line of Penn State officials, including Spanier and Paterno, guru of the moral high ground. The current players are also said to be furious over the swirling storm. Can you blame them? Turns out the sports program most everyone lauded for its squeaky clean image apparently sacrificed the welfare, well-being and souls of children so it could maintain a false charade that yearly brought in millions.”
Howard Bryant, ESPN.com: “Even now, as the heartbreaking details emerge, pages of grand jury testimony are absorbed and parsed, and a seamy picture of alleged child abuse and the subsequent failures to act comes into clear, indefensible focus, the reflex of the Penn State hierarchy involved is one of tone deafness. That focus revolves not around the children who most needed the adults to be grown-ups but around protecting the power: the big, untouchable football program with its legendary coach with the big name and the big reputation, the do-gooder charity with the board of directors with the big names on it. Surrounded by so much bigness, virtually everyone in a position of authority at Penn State has, thus far, seemed to come up very small.”
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Going in a slightly different direction, at least for me: What would possess a grown man (the witness) to see such a thing taking place and not immediately intervene? Calling Daddy instead of separating a grown man from a young boy immediately and THEN reporting it? If I squint just right, I can see how when he finally reported things to officials (JoPa apparently) the next day that they MIGHT take him (and events) a bit less seriously than they should have.
I'm not defending ANYONE if this chain of sordid failures to do the right thing, but the more I look at it the more convinced I am that the greatest failure of all was on McQuery (sic). Well, other than Sandusky of course.
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<< <i>Any time you see grown men defending the indefensible, it's a safe bet that sports figures are involved.
Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living.
Joe Paterno's legacy is that he preached to his players do the right thing and he weaseled out of one of the most important conflicts from his own life, allowing lord knows how many children to have their childhoods ruined. Spin it anyway you want, the man is a pure weasel and doing the bare minimum to avoid prosecution doesn't change that.
I don't consider it to be a political issue, but if it were it would be even more foolish to defend his actions considering how Republicans are generally the ones wanting to protect children from "smut." Well Paterno had a chance to protect children having "smut" acted upon them and he looked the other way. Apparently he isn't much of a man or a Republican. >>
Well said...especially the first sentence. Some of the 'losers' in life need heroes...and when one of their sports heroes isn't as good as they thought, they have no choice but to defend them to the death, because since they have 'linked' themselves to that person, in essence, they are defending themselves.
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police. >>
You think that if that 10 year old kid was Joe's grandson he would have stopped with just reporting it to his so called bosses? >>
yea, yea, yea...but he wasn't his grandson now was he. That's a tired liberal type hypothetical argument for almost any situation involving anything. You could make almost any situation "personal" and people would react differently than if it wasn't personal, which is exactly why our country is going broke thru progressive liberal "good intentions" too much of which our country cannot afford. Flaming liberal Boopotts already sorta brought this up in a more cleverly worded way because he is so highly intelligent...just ask him and he'll tell you that - Boopotts is a liberal elitest in the true sense of the term.
What about you? What about the next time you see some mother verbally abusing her child in a supermarket...are you gonna call the police? What about the next time you see a father smack his child in a shopping mall...are you gonna call the police? How about would you at least report the incident to a security officer? No you probably wouildn't, but Joe Paterno did - he reported the discussed incident to the university administrator who was supposed to be in charge of handling situations such as this. And of course the situation involving Paterno was different than a mother verbally abusing her kid or a father smacking his kid, but child abuse, is still child abuse. So next time you post, please fill us in on all the parents in the supermarkets and malls that you so righteously called the police on, and had them arrested...perhaps you'll become known as the Don Quixote of the CU forum.
And gee, lemme guess, you don't like Joe Paterno, right? What about if Knute Rockne would have done exactly what Joe Paterno did? You wouldn't even be posting in this thread now would you? LOL >>
I'm not following the internal logic:
A) IF we make a situation 'personal' by constructing a hypothetical scenario,
THEN we are inevitably lead to the front gates of a nanny state constructed by those rascally, know-it-all liberals.
Very difficult to see the causal relationship between these two propositions. But, carry on. Getting back on track, it looks like Paterno will coach this weekend, then bow out sometime in the weeks to come. The best line written about this so far comes from Matt Hinton, when he said "At best, Paterno will be allowed to coach the final three games of the regular season, announce his pending retirement himself in December and ride off on his players' shoulders at the end of a Jan. 1 bowl game, all without mentioning the name Jerry Sandusky. But there is no scenario now, and no combination of words, that can stop the most long-awaited denouement in the sport from becoming the most depressing."
I grew up a JoePa fan. My grandmother-- and old-fashioned New Deal socialist who was born in 1911-- absolutely revered Paterno. NOBODY was allowed to speak poorly of him when she was around. When we watched the championship game against Miami there was a consensus in my family that never, in the history of televised athletics, had their ever been a contest that so clearly pitched the White Hats v the Black Hats. To root for Miami in that game would have been tantamount to announcing that you had never quite developed into a mature adult. Even though all the 'Land Grant' games v. MSU it was hard to root against Paterno and all that he stood for. Which means, regardless of what he knew/didn't know about the Sandusky situation, it's an amazingly depressing end to one of the most distinguished careers ever enjoyed by an American celebrity.
<< <i>This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. >>
~Paterno from his retirement statement
So...he admits he should have done more....thereby admitting that he was aware of Sandusky and his actions.
And this dope thinks he gets to call his own shot about when he's leaving? Ha ha He'll be gone before Nebraska if the Trustees have and respect for the children.
A) IF we make a situation 'personal' by constructing a hypothetical scenario,
THEN we are inevitably lead to the front gates of a nanny state constructed by those rascally, know-it-all liberals.
Very difficult to see the causal relationship between these two propositions. >>>>>
Your side with their "throw grandma under the bus" comments almost every time the Republicans try to cut massive overspending by the federal government, I believe is a good example to help you comprehend my point. It doesn't get much more personal than mentioning "grandma" and having her 'thrown under a bus" meaning she would be harmed or killed. Your side that basically preaches socialism, which under the guise of the so-called "good intentions" of socialism, fits the classic definition of a nanny state.
Guy, I think you missed your calling, rather than studying economics, i think you would have made a great trial lawyer.
I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.
I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.
That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.
This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.
My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.
I remember watching Penn State games as a kid in the 80s and loving the team and rooting for them to win. This scandal has forever tarnished my image of Joe Paterno and Penn State. He learned about his friend and ex-coach engaging in inappropriate sexual activities with a child and did the minimum. Yet somehow Stevek defends that? The state police commissioner says Paterno had a lapse in his moral responsibility and this is a witch hunt because Paterno is a conservative? That is such a reach it is not even funny.
Joe Paterno is Penn State thus the focus on him and his lack of action in the face of a horrific accusation. This wasn't some random Penn State custodian or student reporting what he saw, the accuser was his ex-quaterback and a graduate assistant on the team. Paterno stood for doing the right thing in college athletics when so many others do not. But he failed his moral responsibility in this case. This isn't some NCAA transgression where an assistant coach called a recruit too many times. This was a defenseless child being raped, on campus, by a man Joe Paterno knew very well.
You have to wonder about the timing of activities as well. A report of inappropriate sexual contact comes out in 98 and Sandusky, the heir apparent to replace Paterno, steps down completely unexpectedly in 99. The grade assistant reports the assault to Paterno in 2002 and never follows up with police and is added to the Penn State coaching staff in 2003 as an administrative assistant. The Penn State administrators who have a legal obligation to report the suspected assault to the real police fail to do so and simply ban Sandusky from bring young men onto campus. I guess they wanted to make sure that his future rapes occurred off campus.
Stevek you can have all the pride you want in your school and your football team but to fail to feel shame for the actions of ALL the adults in this case is mind numbing. To blame politics for the media coverage and the scandal engulfing Penn State is simply myopic. I guess when you see politics in everything then that means politics must be part of everything.
<< <i>This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. >>
~Paterno from his retirement statement
So...he admits he should have done more....thereby admitting that he was aware of Sandusky and his actions.
And this dope thinks he gets to call his own shot about when he's leaving? Ha ha He'll be gone before Nebraska if the Trustees have and respect for the children.
I predicted he would say that and it was an easy call. It's just plain silly and pathetic to bash Joe for saying that...likely each one of us almost every day, could look back at the previous day and admit we could have "done more" in some aspect.
Now the left wing liberals can pat themselves on the back with a perceived victory, and of course they will continue to try to destroy the life of this great conservative human being who did so much and helped so many at the greatest college in the world, to me. But don't worry about it...November 2012 is coming and then our side will be celebrating.
<< <i>I remember watching Penn State games as a kid in the 80s and loving the team and rooting for them to win. This scandal has forever tarnished my image of Joe Paterno and Penn State. He learned about his friend and ex-coach engaging in inappropriate sexual activities with a child and did the minimum. Yet somehow Stevek defends that? The state police commissioner says Paterno had a lapse in his moral responsibility and this is a witch hunt because Paterno is a conservative? That is such a reach it is not even funny.
Joe Paterno is Penn State thus the focus on him and his lack of action in the face of a horrific accusation. This wasn't some random Penn State custodian or student reporting what he saw, the accuser was his ex-quaterback and a graduate assistant on the team. Paterno stood for doing the right thing in college athletics when so many others do not. But he failed his moral responsibility in this case. This isn't some NCAA transgression where an assistant coach called a recruit too many times. This was a defenseless child being raped, on campus, by a man Joe Paterno knew very well.
You have to wonder about the timing of activities as well. A report of inappropriate sexual contact comes out in 98 and Sandusky, the heir apparent to replace Paterno, steps down completely unexpectedly in 99. The grade assistant reports the assault to Paterno in 2002 and never follows up with police and is added to the Penn State coaching staff in 2003 as an administrative assistant. The Penn State administrators who have a legal obligation to report the suspected assault to the real police fail to do so and simply ban Sandusky from bring young men onto campus. I guess they wanted to make sure that his future rapes occurred off campus.
Stevek you can have all the pride you want in your school and your football team but to fail to feel shame for the actions of ALL the adults in this case is mind numbing. To blame politics for the media coverage and the scandal engulfing Penn State is simply myopic. I guess when you see politics in everything then that means politics must be part of everything.
Robb >>
Robb - I don't respond to trolls, and I'm not accusing you of being a troll...but I'm not going to waste time and respond to your silly and ridiculous spins pertaining to what I stated. I stand by each and every one of my comments and I'll leave it at that.
If there was any doubt as to just how much of a tool stevek was prior to this thread, I think his posts here trying to bring politics into the discussion have pretty much cemented the fact.
Joe Paterno has done so many things to help young people, and looking back, there are probably a lot of areas he wishes he could have done differently.
Unfortunately, in this horrible case, to make it into one of those, "I wish I had done more" instances ...he picked a pretty bad time to have a lapse in conscientious, that it does indeed outweigh so many of the good things he did in other areas.
<< <i>If there was any doubt as to just how much of a tool stevek was prior to this thread, I think his posts here trying to bring politics into the discussion have pretty much cemented the fact. >>
Glad you joined the discussion with your "wisdom", which certifies what a tool you are.
Troll? Please. I am just shocked how you have spun this situation. The liberal media establishment tearing down a staunch conservative. Rather than the failure to act by a man that defined his legacy as the moral high ground. The policy commissioner who knows more about this case than probably anyone involved said everything that needed to be said regarding Paterno and is moral responsibility.
Until this broke I would have said Paterno was the last great coach that did everything right. It is sad that this is how Paterno will be remembered.
<< <i>He should have done more, glad he at least recognizes that. Sorry that his fans never will.
That was his house, and when somebody does something heinous in your house, and you are THE man...YOU make sure it is fixed! >>
I couldn't agree more, though as this thing unfolds the fact that Paterno made a huge mistake is quickly becoming one of the least interesting aspects of this scandal. Paterno botched the job-- just about every thoughtul, intellectually responsible person seems to agree on that. But what's interesting to me- or, at least, what's becoming interesting-- is how this scandal serves as a reminder to all of us of just how dehumanizing institutional life can become. If you stay in an institution long enough, and invest enough emotional and intellectual capital into it, it's well being can become far more important to you than the health and well-being of the innocent and defenseless.
Moreover, this process can happen to just about anybody. I refuse to believe that Paterno, or Curley, or McQueady (sp?), or even Spanier possessed personal moral codes that were substantially less developed than those possessed by the average American. History is rife with examples of men and women who, by almost any fair metric, were 'good people' succumbing to horrific lapses in good judgment, and the trait many of these people shared is that they happened to be integral cogs in an institutional machine. If we just point fingers at the PSU power brokers, bang our drums and bellow about how 'more should have been done' we don't end up learning anything from this mess- which means, in the long run, that the horrible price these children paid will be in vain. The thing to take from this scandal is a reminder of what large institutions can do to individual's ability to make good decisions- and to try to find ways, going forward, to mitigate the effect that an institutional life can and does have on humankind's ability to distinguish right from wrong.
Edit to add: An excellent example of this dynamic in action comes from Paterno's statement today. Once he's done coaching, what is he going to spend the rest of his life doing? Is he going to spend it on efforts to prevent the very kind of sexual abuse that occurred in his locker room? No- he's going to spend it trying to repair the damage DONE TO THE UNVERSITY. Even now, Paterno's primary goal is to repair damage done to the institution- not to repair the damage done to the kids that were abused by Sandusky. And this comes from the lips of Joseph Vincent Paterno, a man who (and I still believe this) is far more morally developed than the average American male. If institutional life can have this kind of effect on him, imagine the effect it can (and does) have on the rest of us.
<< <i>Joe Paterno has done so many things to help young people, and looking back, there are probably a lot of areas he wishes he could have done differently.
Unfortunately, in this horrible case, to make it into one of those, "I wish I had done more" instances ...he picked a pretty bad time to have a lapse in conscientious, that it does indeed outweigh so many of the good things he did in other areas. >>
Everyone can look back on what they could have done differently. You've bashed me, for whatever reason and i really couldn't care less, numerous times for the gambling addiction I wish I never had...but I've been clean for almost ten years now, things are going better than ever for me, and one important lesson I've learned is that is ain't no use looking back with regrets...just a waste of time and life.
Sinatra said in a song, "Regrets I've had a few, but then again too few to mention"...and I think that's a good way to move forward in life. Paterno publicly stated about his "regret", but I have no doubt that he has lost little if not hardly any sleep over his decision to contact the university administrator versus the police, because as I stated in a previous post, it is my viewpoint that in his mind he WAS contacting the police thru the administrator. Unfortunately people can get caught up in a tornado of sorts similar perhaps to innocent civilians who get killed during wartime.
I still say Paterno did nothing wrong, and did everything right...and i guess I'm in the minority on this...but as long as I'm not in the minority on election day 2012, I'll be very happy and hopefully be moving forward in a better business climate with more freedom and liberty for all.
I have no idea how politics plays a role in the media's spin on things, but one thing I know for sure. The media absolutely LOVES to tear down people regardless of their indescretion, especially anyone associated with athletics and especially those people that for some length of time appeared to be model citizens (see Tiger Woods). Because most of their work days are spent reporting the most trivial of stories to us, when a legitimate news story actually breaks, they can't help but give you the most over the top, holier than thou take on what they THINK they know.
I've said it previously, and I'll say it again - there seems to be an overwhelmingly large percentage of people ready to hang Paterno for this, but I promise you that a large percentage of those people would have done just what Joe did, if not less. You will never convince me otherwise.
<< <i>This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. >>
~Paterno from his retirement statement
So...he admits he should have done more....thereby admitting that he was aware of Sandusky and his actions.
And this dope thinks he gets to call his own shot about when he's leaving? Ha ha He'll be gone before Nebraska if the Trustees have and respect for the children.
Agreed. He pays lip service to the victims, and only wants to cover his own ass again, and he has the audacity to tell the university what to do. If the Penn State board wants to preserve any remaining dignity the university has, Paterno and Spanier get fired TODAY.
Boo, your posts in this thread are, in my opinion, doing a fantastic job of pointing out the very human failings that lead up to these sort of systemic failings.
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<< <i>Troll? Please. I am just shocked how you have spun this situation. The liberal media establishment tearing down a staunch conservative. Rather than the failure to act by a man that defined his legacy as the moral high ground. The policy commissioner who knows more about this case than probably anyone involved said everything that needed to be said regarding Paterno and is moral responsibility.
Until this broke I would have said Paterno was the last great coach that did everything right. It is sad that this is how Paterno will be remembered.
Robb >>
With your 853 posts and a member for over four years, I'll clarify it - you are not a troll, and of course you don't need me to state that. but you misconstrued and spun the ideas in my posts. If some troll wants to do that then I couldn't care less simply because they are a troll...but you are not a troll so that's why I wanted to clarify why i wasn't going to respond....if you're following all that - LOL
Boopotts and I often disagree, but one thing I respect him for is he quotes my post and responds to the exact points with his viewpoint, and he usually does that with others as well. He doesn't type out some diatribe post that would take hours or for sure a lot of time for the other poster to defend and clarify their position. That's all I was saying about your mentioning me in your post. You actually brought some valid ideas to the table, and while i might disagree, I respect your viewpoint...whether you like it or not.
In response to the poster that quoted what various writers have to say - where the F does Howard Bryant get off preaching about morality? This is the same guy that was seen in public choking his wife during an argument earlier this year.
I'm sure most of you have heard what the Bible says about casting stones....I think some of these media members need some deep introspection before blasting away....
<< <i>In response to the poster that quoted what various writers have to say - where the F does Howard Bryant get off preaching about morality? This is the same guy that was seen in public choking his wife during an argument earlier this year.
I'm sure most of you have heard what the Bible says about casting stones....I think some of these media members need some deep introspection before blasting away.... >>
I suspect that a Venn diagram showing Bible readers and media members would have a VERY small intersecting area. I don't think politics plays a role in any of this, but I do think that the media delights in knocking down people on pedestals - celebrities, politicians, athletes, and others with high profiles. I also believe that the press goes even more full-bore when doing this to anyone they perceive as hypocritical. This leads to a lot of feeding frenzies where someone who is willing to live a highly moral live in the public eye, or at least espouses living morally, falls victim to normal human weaknesses and shortcomings.
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Comments
By Brian Bennett
ESPN.com
Students rally in support for Joe Paterno outside his house
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- Stefano DiPietro first heard about the rally on Facebook around 2 p.m. Fellow Penn State students were heading to Joe Paterno's house at dusk to show support for the coach when he returned from practice.
Students demonstrated their support of Joe Paterno outside of his house Tuesday night.
"From there, I just tried to relay it to as many people as possible on text, Facebook, Twitter, whatever," said DiPietro, an 18-year-old freshman. "None of us want to see Joe leave. We all love Joe."
The love was evident as several hundred students crowded around Paterno's house, located just a couple of blocks from campus. Chants of "We are Penn State!" and "Joe Paterno!" filled an otherwise quiet, darkened street.
The 84-year-old coach looked happier than any senior citizen ever to have kids trample his lawn. He exited the passenger side of a white university van to thank the students in his driveway. A few minutes after that, he opened his front window to say a few more words as the crowd surged forward to hear him. And just when everybody was about to disperse some 30 minutes later, a grinning Paterno walked out the front door to address the students one more time.
"I can't tell you how much this means to me," he said. "I've lived for this place. I've lived for people like you guys and girls."
After the rally at Paterno's house, a portion of the crowd went to stand guard by his statue at Beaver Stadium before marching to Old Main, the school's administration building. Students walked onto College Avenue before being moved off the street by police in riot gear, and they reassembled at Old Main as their numbers swelled into the thousands.
Around 11:30, the crowd marched back to Beaver Stadium, where several thousand gathered around the Paterno statue until well after midnight. Other than a few overturned garbage cans by the stadium, the demonstrations appeared to be mostly peaceful.
Support for Paterno among the student body appears to remain high, even as the entire Penn State community struggles to deal with news of the child molestation allegations against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, a scandal that has put the coaching legend's career in jeopardy. Paterno asked the students to say a prayer for the alleged victims, adding that "it's a tough life when people do certain things to you."
But that's about all he had to say concerning the charges surrounding his former assistant or his role in allowing Sandusky to avoid investigation or arrest for so long. According to grand jury documents, Paterno told athletic director Tim Curley about an eyewitness account of Sandusky allegedly raping a boy in a locker room shower in 2002. But as far as we know, Paterno did nothing else to intervene, and he declined to answer any questions Tuesday after his scheduled news conference was scrapped. His son, Scott Paterno, said the coach could speak to reporters or release a statement Wednesday.
The scandal -- which has already led to felony perjury charges for Curley and administrator Gary Schultz and may cost school president Graham Spanier his job -- has rocked this bucolic college town to its core. Yet most students seem willing to forgive Paterno and don't want to see him take the fall.
"Don't get me wrong," sophomore Gabriella Justin said after attending the rally. "It's a tragedy, everything that happened. But we support JoePa. JoePa is a part of Penn State."
Some students seemed blissfully unaware of the controversy on an unseasonably warm, cloudless November day that was perfect for throwing a Frisbee on a campus green or grabbing a waffle cone at the Berkey Creamery. But the sight of reporters, as well as scattered protests, was unmistakable.
Lauren and Michael Acquaviva brought their baby to their protest on the campus.
Asher Evans was part of a loud, if small, group of demonstrators who marched through campus asking other students to join them. They remained a quartet, with three members carrying protest signs and the fourth slapping a conga drum as they yelled about the abuses that had taken place.
"We hope to increase awareness and recognition that what happened here is not OK," said Evans, a 33-year-old graduate student.
But Evans' beef lay more with upper administration then Paterno. The same held true for Vanessa Hall, who hoisted a sign outside the HUB that read: "Schultz, Curley and Spanier: You are not PSU!" The 21-year-old senior said she didn't want university money going toward the legal defense of Schultz and Curley and that she thought Spanier had "tarnished the reputation" of Penn State. But she was upset about reports that Paterno could be forced out.
"JoePa deserves our support for all the time, money and effort he put in the school," she said. "I would really hate to see him go with this ending after all he's done for us. Then again, I'm graduating, so I've already had my JoePa."
At Old Main, some protestors sat on the building's steps holding signs. Others watched them from a nearby stone ledge, checking their phones for news.
"It's a lot of shock, a lot of being hurt," sophomore Dillon Smith said. "Truthfully, it's hard to focus with everything going on. Twitter is constantly blowing up with updates here and there, and reporters are interviewing students all over the place."
Smith and his two friends, sophomores Zach Mandell and Brett Larter, planned to stay camped at Old Main to get across their message, which was that the administration's actions did not reflect the entire university. But they did not blame Paterno.
"He deserves a better ending than this," Larter said.
Brett Larter, Dillon Smith and Zach Mandell want the administration held accountable.
Michael and Lauren Acquaviva were the rare people interviewed for this story who wanted Paterno held accountable. Lauren grew up in State College and graduated from the school last year, while Michael is a graduate student. The kind of couple who finishes each other's sentences, the Acquavivas brought their 10-month-old son, Matthias, and a protest sign to the Old Main steps.
"If something like this happened to my son and people knew about it but chose not to do anything, I feel they'd be nearly as responsible as the person who did it," Lauren Acquaviva said. "What's Paterno's motto? Victory with honor?"
"There's just no honor here," Michael Acquaviva said.
Paterno is integral to the entire campus. His name is on the library he helped build. The first sight greeting visitors to the Penn State bookstore Tuesday was a display prominently featuring a Paterno biography titled "Pride of the Lions." (Sandusky's book, cringingly titled "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story," is no longer on shelves.) The campus creamery still sells a flavor called Peachy Paterno.
Then there's the ultimate sign of what Paterno created in his 46 years as Nittany Lions head coach: Paternoville. Since 2005, students have formed a tent city outside the Beaver Stadium gates so they could grab a coveted front-row seat for a home football game. By Tuesday afternoon, more than 60 tents were set up in anticipation of Saturday's home finale against Nebraska.
Chad Lear and his buddies arrived Monday evening to snag a spot in the front. He is hoping the game-day atmosphere isn't diminished by the controversy.
"It's the biggest game of the year so far for Penn State, and I think it's unfair to punish the team," the senior said. "I know I'll be yelling the same as I'd normally be. I know others won't be as enthusiastic."
Freshman Susanna Nieroda was holding down the fort in a large tent Tuesday evening, taking a shift while her friends tended to other things. She didn't see any reason why things would change this weekend.
"I don't think it will dampen our spirits," she said. "We like football for a reason."
The reason football is so big at Penn State -- heck, most of the reason Penn State is so big -- traces directly to Paterno. It shouldn't come as a surprise, then, that so many students would remain unwavering in their loyalty in the midst of such a devastating scandal.
"I don't think you can find another school that would do this for their head coach," DiPietro said. "We have a lot of spirit, and we believe in Joe."
Brian Bennett covers the Big Ten and Notre Dame for ESPN.com.
Follow Brian Bennett on Twitter: @ESPN_BigTen
Left wing propaganda spin, biased reporting as always from the "usual suspects" in the left wing media who certainly don't like Joe Paterno and what he has stood for all of his life. The "silent majority" is about to rise up again, and not just with this!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police. >>
You think that if that 10 year old kid was Joe's grandson he would have stopped with just reporting it to his so called bosses?
How could any REAL man show up and take part in a stupid football game knowing that he has failed innocent children so badly. A real man would have resigned on Monday morning.
I couldn't do it. Of course, I couldn't go on with my life for 10 years saying "good morning" to a child rapist every day either. Evidently, Paterno and McQueary and all the others can.
<< <i>I will say it again...if McQueary, Paterno and anyone else with knowledge of the offenses dares show up in that stadium this Saturday...they will (hopefully) get the reception they deserve.
How could any REAL man show up and take part in a stupid football game knowing that he has failed innocent children so badly. A real man would have resigned on Monday morning.
I couldn't do it. Of course, I couldn't go on with my life for 10 years saying "good morning" to a child rapist every day either. Evidently, Paterno and McQueary and all the others can. >>
No, but you can mock those that stand up for the rights of unborn innocent children. And, you think it's hilarious.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police. >>
You think that if that 10 year old kid was Joe's grandson he would have stopped with just reporting it to his so called bosses? >>
yea, yea, yea...but he wasn't his grandson now was he. That's a tired liberal type hypothetical argument for almost any situation involving anything. You could make almost any situation "personal" and people would react differently than if it wasn't personal, which is exactly why our country is going broke thru progressive liberal "good intentions" too much of which our country cannot afford. Flaming liberal Boopotts already sorta brought this up in a more cleverly worded way because he is so highly intelligent...just ask him and he'll tell you that - Boopotts is a liberal elitest in the true sense of the term.
What about you? What about the next time you see some mother verbally abusing her child in a supermarket...are you gonna call the police? What about the next time you see a father smack his child in a shopping mall...are you gonna call the police? How about would you at least report the incident to a security officer? No you probably wouildn't, but Joe Paterno did - he reported the discussed incident to the university administrator who was supposed to be in charge of handling situations such as this. And of course the situation involving Paterno was different than a mother verbally abusing her kid or a father smacking his kid, but child abuse, is still child abuse. So next time you post, please fill us in on all the parents in the supermarkets and malls that you so righteously called the police on, and had them arrested...perhaps you'll become known as the Don Quixote of the CU forum.
And gee, lemme guess, you don't like Joe Paterno, right? What about if Knute Rockne would have done exactly what Joe Paterno did? You wouldn't even be posting in this thread now would you? LOL
That always struck me as odd that most liberals, especially most of the liberal elite, want to bring all their "good intentions" to society, even when we cannot afford it, and we have to beg China and others to lend us money to do so, while our financial system gets closer and closer to collapsing and that would cause untold pain and suffering to the majority of people's lives and their families...while most liberals couldn't care less about unborn life.
Yea, send Sandusky to jail which we all agree on if he is proven guilty in a court of law...but the guy who kills 20 unborn babies a day in the abortion clinic, he gets paid and goes home to enjoy a nice dinner with his abortion fees that he charged.
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Why not? Well, last I checked, Penn State is in the United States of America. The legal system we have says "innocent until proven guilty". We don't know the details of what happened. We don't even know if Sandusky did anything. He might be as innocent as all of us. We also don't know what happened when Paterno reported the incident. You may think you know, but you really don't know. If it turns out that Paterno is covering for his buddy or he just was completely negligent, then yes, he should go. But, what if he wasn't? What if he was told that the police were investigating it? What if he was told by his administrators that they were handling it with the police? Joe was in his mid-70's at the time, and wasn't exactly full of energy. He might have felt that younger, better trained experts in that sort of thing would be better for handling that situation than a football coach. All of this is hypothetical, of course. But, I ask you this: If something were to occur at your workplace, wouldn't you expect for a full investigation to be conducted and for justice to be served BEFORE you got fired?
<< <i>No, but if you are old and come from a different generation - it is okay to look they other way... >>
Similar to the Catholic Church then.
You're not very bright are you? Trying to get us off track from the real issues because you cannot accept the fact that I couldn't care less what you type from your grandmas basement, eh? Get out of your pajamas, put down the juice box and go to work. Or are just now waking up in your tent on Wall Street?
Actually, I'm happy to see you posting here. I had completely forgotten how much I enjoy watching you make an azz of yourself.
Go clean yourself up...
<< <i>Sorry, I was just catching up and skimming through... so Paterno killed 20 babies and hid them in his driveway? >>
No that was Jimmy Hoffa.
Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living.
Joe Paterno's legacy is that he preached to his players do the right thing and he weaseled out of one of the most important conflicts from his own life, allowing lord knows how many children to have their childhoods ruined. Spin it anyway you want, the man is a pure weasel and doing the bare minimum to avoid prosecution doesn't change that.
I don't consider it to be a political issue, but if it were it would be even more foolish to defend his actions considering how Republicans are generally the ones wanting to protect children from "smut." Well Paterno had a chance to protect children having "smut" acted upon them and he looked the other way. Apparently he isn't much of a man or a Republican.
Now if I can only remember what the topic was...something about bashing the Yankees and the Mets?
<< <i>Any time you see grown men defending the indefensible, it's a safe bet that sports figures are involved.
Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living.
Joe Paterno's legacy is that he preached to his players do the right thing and he weaseled out of one of the most important conflicts from his own life, allowing lord knows how many children to have their childhoods ruined. Spin it anyway you want, the man is a pure weasel and doing the bare minimum to avoid prosecution doesn't change that.
I don't consider it to be a political issue, but if it were it would be even more foolish to defend his actions considering how Republicans are generally the ones wanting to protect children from "smut." Well Paterno had a chance to protect children having "smut" acted upon them and he looked the other way. Apparently he isn't much of a man or a Republican. >>
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<<<<< Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living. >>>>>
I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but the facts are that Paterno did not witness the incident and the alleged pervert was not in Joe's coaching staff at the time. I may be wrong, and I really don't know about the personal relationship between Paterno and Sandusky, but even though they worked together for a long time, just a hunch that Sandusky was not his close friend. So I can't see any fathomable reason at all why Joe would cover up for this guy and look the other way. Joe quickly told the university administrator about the incident and Joe would have to presume the administrator took care of the problem. You are entitled to your opinion, but come on now...by no definition had Paterno "looked the other way" about this incident as you stated.
<< <i>I agree...I want to apologize for detroitfan....let's get back to it... >>
Dang, you had to go ahead and do that after I promised myself that I would never invite you on our "southern Michigan area board member trip to Gibraltar" someday (along with Boopotts, fiveniner, tabe, RoarIn84, etc). OK, you're back on the list, now we just have to make it happen.
Ironically, I did enter my previous post from my basement in my pajamas (had a 6:30 AM conference call with India and didn't want to wake the kids). But it was my own basement, not my ancestors! And it was Diet Coke, not a juice box.
OK, I'm good, you're good, we're all good. Carry on.
<< <i>Right about now, I think Herman Cain is like *whew*. lol >>
Actually, I think it's Jim Tressell that is feeling a bit better about his own life.
So in my viewpoint all the bashing about Joe not calling the police is now mute. Case closed.
Anything else i can help out with in this thread?
I'm confident we would have a nice time.
Then, in 1999, he flat out retires? A man in his 50's? At the top of his game? Linebacker U? He just retires? And never coaches again? Other schools wanted him! But nope, he just retires to "devote more time to his charity". I call total BS on that. I believe Paterno and Penn State knew Sandusky was a child predator as far back as 1998.
It's just my opinion, but there is nothing out there to cause me to believe otherwise.
<< <i>
<< <i>Right about now, I think Herman Cain is like *whew*. lol >>
Actually, I think it's Jim Tressell that is feeling a bit better about his own life. >>
You got that right! lol
<< <i>So when Jerry Sandusky admitted to showering with young boys in 1998 and "the fix" by Penn State was to tell Jerry he could no longer shower with young boys. That was good enough? He and Paterno just went right along coaching for another year?
Then, in 1999, he flat out retires? A man in his 50's? At the top of his game? Linebacker U? He just retires? And never coaches again? Other schools wanted him! But nope, he just retires to "devote more time to his charity". I call total BS on that. I believe Paterno and Penn State knew Sandusky was a child predator as far back as 1998.
It's just my opinion, but there is nothing out there to cause me to believe otherwise. >>
I'm not going to reread the news stories, but Sandusky was questioned by the police around that time, might have been earlier or later. So the police questioned him and released him with no charges being filed - you can go thru the news stories and find it if you want.
Were the police corrupt? That is a question which has to be asked. In any event, I'm not interested one bit is sticking up for anyone else in this matter except for Paterno who I believe to be exemplary. I can't see any fathomable reason that Joe Paterno would keep on his staff, associate with, or cover up for anyone he thought was a child molester in any way, shape or form. It just doesn't make sense, and it doesn't matter what generation Paterno is from or how old he is - that is just plain silly to think that about this particular gentleman.
That being said, if the evidence and facts show and prove otherwise, then I would change my view about Paterno...however I'm not expecting that to happen in the least.
Gregg Doyel, CBSSports.com: “This scandal has turned campus into Bizarro World, a place where up is down and wrong is right and Joe Paterno is serenaded by students who were roughly the same age, in 2002, as Sandusky's alleged shower victim. Meanwhile, off campus, people are horrified. It seems to be the dominant opinion elsewhere that Paterno, like the handful of other Penn State officials with knowledge of the alleged assault -- the grad assistant who saw it, the athletics director who was told about it -- concerned themselves only with the minimum legal standards in 2002. The moral minimum would have been to call the police. Nobody did.”
Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports: “If Penn State’s Board of Trustees has, as reported, decided that Joe Paterno’s career as Penn State’s coach will end in this, his 46th season, then the move needs to be made immediately, prior to Saturday’s game against Nebraska. It then needs to be followed by the firing of school president Graham Spanier. The New York Times reported the icon’s tenure will be over ‘perhaps within days or weeks,’ the casualty of a widening sex abuse scandal that has imploded the once tranquil world of Penn State football. There’s no reason to wait. The debate over Paterno’s moral culpability in not informing police in 2002 after a then-graduate assistant told Paterno of ‘something inappropriate involving (former defensive coordinator Jerry) Sandusky’ during an ‘incident in the shower of our locker room facility’ will wage forever.”
Andy Staples, SI.com: “Paterno claims to be a teacher. He always talks about his kids when referring to his players. Someone who truly cared about kids would have done more. He would have pestered (athletic director Tim) Curley for an answer about what happened to the accusation. He would have called the police. He would have confronted Sandusky. Instead of that, Paterno let Sandusky keep coming back. On Monday, Yahoo! reported that Sandusky was spotted in the Penn State football complex as recently as last week. Even if the accusation was false, Paterno had a responsibility to make sure it was thoroughly investigated. He didn't. He stuck by Sandusky instead of worrying about the child.”
Jason Whitlock, FoxSports.com: “We worship corporations and institutions. Our Supreme Court granted them First Amendment rights. The Fourth Estate, the alleged watchdogs of democracy, acts as their mouthpiece. There should be no surprise that protecting Joe Paterno, Penn State, Happy Valley and Linebacker U — profit-generating institutions at the core of big-time college athletics’ amateur myth — appears to have taken precedence over the protection of children. It’s the era we live in. Institutions are valued more than human beings. Safeguarding JoePa, marketing and exploiting his march to victory 409, appears to have been more important than exposing allegations against longtime defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, charged with sexually abusing teenage boys.”
Lisa Olson, FanHouse: “The current players have been unfairly tossed into the vortex of this heinous scandal involving alleged sexual acts committed against young boys by Jerry Sandusky, the once legendary former defensive coordinator, and the ensuing inhuman and immoral response by a line of Penn State officials, including Spanier and Paterno, guru of the moral high ground. The current players are also said to be furious over the swirling storm. Can you blame them? Turns out the sports program most everyone lauded for its squeaky clean image apparently sacrificed the welfare, well-being and souls of children so it could maintain a false charade that yearly brought in millions.”
Howard Bryant, ESPN.com: “Even now, as the heartbreaking details emerge, pages of grand jury testimony are absorbed and parsed, and a seamy picture of alleged child abuse and the subsequent failures to act comes into clear, indefensible focus, the reflex of the Penn State hierarchy involved is one of tone deafness. That focus revolves not around the children who most needed the adults to be grown-ups but around protecting the power: the big, untouchable football program with its legendary coach with the big name and the big reputation, the do-gooder charity with the board of directors with the big names on it. Surrounded by so much bigness, virtually everyone in a position of authority at Penn State has, thus far, seemed to come up very small.”
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/tipsheet-media-descends-on-not-so-happy-valley/article_3e9ca6b8-0ad8-11e1-b0a5-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1dDo5nsub
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I'm not defending ANYONE if this chain of sordid failures to do the right thing, but the more I look at it the more convinced I am that the greatest failure of all was on McQuery (sic). Well, other than Sandusky of course.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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<< <i>Any time you see grown men defending the indefensible, it's a safe bet that sports figures are involved.
Everybody knows that pedophiles generally prey on kids as long as they're allowed to roam free with their testicles intact. When you find out a man is raping a kid in the shower, you call the law. period. I don't care if it's the POTUS. If someone is slipping the players a few 100's on the sly, maybe then you go to the AD. ***raping kids, that's for the DA. Do anything less, and you're not much of man and I don't care what you do for a living.
Joe Paterno's legacy is that he preached to his players do the right thing and he weaseled out of one of the most important conflicts from his own life, allowing lord knows how many children to have their childhoods ruined. Spin it anyway you want, the man is a pure weasel and doing the bare minimum to avoid prosecution doesn't change that.
I don't consider it to be a political issue, but if it were it would be even more foolish to defend his actions considering how Republicans are generally the ones wanting to protect children from "smut." Well Paterno had a chance to protect children having "smut" acted upon them and he looked the other way. Apparently he isn't much of a man or a Republican. >>
Well said...especially the first sentence. Some of the 'losers' in life need heroes...and when one of their sports heroes isn't as good as they thought, they have no choice but to defend them to the death, because since they have 'linked' themselves to that person, in essence, they are defending themselves.
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<< <i>I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw. >>
-Joe Paterno
A man deserving respect SHOULD have informed his boss (like he did) as well as local authorities. Wouldn't you do it for the childs sake? Let law enforcement decide if the story had merit or not.
He gets zero respect from me. >>
FYI: The alleged coach was no longer a coach at the time when Paterno learned of the incident. As you mentioned, Paterno still reported it to university administrators, which I have to believe is probably the college procedure for something such as this, and then it's up to the university administrators to report it to the proper authorities such as the police. >>
You think that if that 10 year old kid was Joe's grandson he would have stopped with just reporting it to his so called bosses? >>
yea, yea, yea...but he wasn't his grandson now was he. That's a tired liberal type hypothetical argument for almost any situation involving anything. You could make almost any situation "personal" and people would react differently than if it wasn't personal, which is exactly why our country is going broke thru progressive liberal "good intentions" too much of which our country cannot afford. Flaming liberal Boopotts already sorta brought this up in a more cleverly worded way because he is so highly intelligent...just ask him and he'll tell you that - Boopotts is a liberal elitest in the true sense of the term.
What about you? What about the next time you see some mother verbally abusing her child in a supermarket...are you gonna call the police? What about the next time you see a father smack his child in a shopping mall...are you gonna call the police? How about would you at least report the incident to a security officer? No you probably wouildn't, but Joe Paterno did - he reported the discussed incident to the university administrator who was supposed to be in charge of handling situations such as this. And of course the situation involving Paterno was different than a mother verbally abusing her kid or a father smacking his kid, but child abuse, is still child abuse. So next time you post, please fill us in on all the parents in the supermarkets and malls that you so righteously called the police on, and had them arrested...perhaps you'll become known as the Don Quixote of the CU forum.
And gee, lemme guess, you don't like Joe Paterno, right? What about if Knute Rockne would have done exactly what Joe Paterno did? You wouldn't even be posting in this thread now would you? LOL >>
I'm not following the internal logic:
A) IF we make a situation 'personal' by constructing a hypothetical scenario,
Very difficult to see the causal relationship between these two propositions. But, carry on. Getting back on track, it looks like Paterno will coach this weekend, then bow out sometime in the weeks to come. The best line written about this so far comes from Matt Hinton, when he said "At best, Paterno will be allowed to coach the final three games of the regular season, announce his pending retirement himself in December and ride off on his players' shoulders at the end of a Jan. 1 bowl game, all without mentioning the name Jerry Sandusky. But there is no scenario now, and no combination of words, that can stop the most long-awaited denouement in the sport from becoming the most depressing."
I grew up a JoePa fan. My grandmother-- and old-fashioned New Deal socialist who was born in 1911-- absolutely revered Paterno. NOBODY was allowed to speak poorly of him when she was around. When we watched the championship game against Miami there was a consensus in my family that never, in the history of televised athletics, had their ever been a contest that so clearly pitched the White Hats v the Black Hats. To root for Miami in that game would have been tantamount to announcing that you had never quite developed into a mature adult. Even though all the 'Land Grant' games v. MSU it was hard to root against Paterno and all that he stood for. Which means, regardless of what he knew/didn't know about the Sandusky situation, it's an amazingly depressing end to one of the most distinguished careers ever enjoyed by an American celebrity.
<< <i>This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. >>
~Paterno from his retirement statement
So...he admits he should have done more....thereby admitting that he was aware of Sandusky and his actions.
And this dope thinks he gets to call his own shot about when he's leaving? Ha ha He'll be gone before Nebraska if the Trustees have and respect for the children.
Full Statement
A) IF we make a situation 'personal' by constructing a hypothetical scenario,
Very difficult to see the causal relationship between these two propositions. >>>>>
Your side with their "throw grandma under the bus" comments almost every time the Republicans try to cut massive overspending by the federal government, I believe is a good example to help you comprehend my point. It doesn't get much more personal than mentioning "grandma" and having her 'thrown under a bus" meaning she would be harmed or killed. Your side that basically preaches socialism, which under the guise of the so-called "good intentions" of socialism, fits the classic definition of a nanny state.
Guy, I think you missed your calling, rather than studying economics, i think you would have made a great trial lawyer.
That was his house, and when somebody does something heinous in your house, and you are THE man...YOU make sure it is fixed!
I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.
I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.
That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.
This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.
My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.
Joe Paterno is Penn State thus the focus on him and his lack of action in the face of a horrific accusation. This wasn't some random Penn State custodian or student reporting what he saw, the accuser was his ex-quaterback and a graduate assistant on the team. Paterno stood for doing the right thing in college athletics when so many others do not. But he failed his moral responsibility in this case. This isn't some NCAA transgression where an assistant coach called a recruit too many times. This was a defenseless child being raped, on campus, by a man Joe Paterno knew very well.
You have to wonder about the timing of activities as well. A report of inappropriate sexual contact comes out in 98 and Sandusky, the heir apparent to replace Paterno, steps down completely unexpectedly in 99. The grade assistant reports the assault to Paterno in 2002 and never follows up with police and is added to the Penn State coaching staff in 2003 as an administrative assistant. The Penn State administrators who have a legal obligation to report the suspected assault to the real police fail to do so and simply ban Sandusky from bring young men onto campus. I guess they wanted to make sure that his future rapes occurred off campus.
Stevek you can have all the pride you want in your school and your football team but to fail to feel shame for the actions of ALL the adults in this case is mind numbing. To blame politics for the media coverage and the scandal engulfing Penn State is simply myopic. I guess when you see politics in everything then that means politics must be part of everything.
Robb
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<< <i>This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. >>
~Paterno from his retirement statement
So...he admits he should have done more....thereby admitting that he was aware of Sandusky and his actions.
And this dope thinks he gets to call his own shot about when he's leaving? Ha ha He'll be gone before Nebraska if the Trustees have and respect for the children.
Full Statement >>
<<<< he admits he should have done more >>>>
I predicted he would say that and it was an easy call. It's just plain silly and pathetic to bash Joe for saying that...likely each one of us almost every day, could look back at the previous day and admit we could have "done more" in some aspect.
Now the left wing liberals can pat themselves on the back with a perceived victory, and of course they will continue to try to destroy the life of this great conservative human being who did so much and helped so many at the greatest college in the world, to me. But don't worry about it...November 2012 is coming and then our side will be celebrating.
<< <i>I remember watching Penn State games as a kid in the 80s and loving the team and rooting for them to win. This scandal has forever tarnished my image of Joe Paterno and Penn State. He learned about his friend and ex-coach engaging in inappropriate sexual activities with a child and did the minimum. Yet somehow Stevek defends that? The state police commissioner says Paterno had a lapse in his moral responsibility and this is a witch hunt because Paterno is a conservative? That is such a reach it is not even funny.
Joe Paterno is Penn State thus the focus on him and his lack of action in the face of a horrific accusation. This wasn't some random Penn State custodian or student reporting what he saw, the accuser was his ex-quaterback and a graduate assistant on the team. Paterno stood for doing the right thing in college athletics when so many others do not. But he failed his moral responsibility in this case. This isn't some NCAA transgression where an assistant coach called a recruit too many times. This was a defenseless child being raped, on campus, by a man Joe Paterno knew very well.
You have to wonder about the timing of activities as well. A report of inappropriate sexual contact comes out in 98 and Sandusky, the heir apparent to replace Paterno, steps down completely unexpectedly in 99. The grade assistant reports the assault to Paterno in 2002 and never follows up with police and is added to the Penn State coaching staff in 2003 as an administrative assistant. The Penn State administrators who have a legal obligation to report the suspected assault to the real police fail to do so and simply ban Sandusky from bring young men onto campus. I guess they wanted to make sure that his future rapes occurred off campus.
Stevek you can have all the pride you want in your school and your football team but to fail to feel shame for the actions of ALL the adults in this case is mind numbing. To blame politics for the media coverage and the scandal engulfing Penn State is simply myopic. I guess when you see politics in everything then that means politics must be part of everything.
Robb >>
Robb - I don't respond to trolls, and I'm not accusing you of being a troll...but I'm not going to waste time and respond to your silly and ridiculous spins pertaining to what I stated. I stand by each and every one of my comments and I'll leave it at that.
Unfortunately, in this horrible case, to make it into one of those, "I wish I had done more" instances ...he picked a pretty bad time to have a lapse in conscientious, that it does indeed outweigh so many of the good things he did in other areas.
<< <i>If there was any doubt as to just how much of a tool stevek was prior to this thread, I think his posts here trying to bring politics into the discussion have pretty much cemented the fact. >>
Glad you joined the discussion with your "wisdom", which certifies what a tool you are.
Until this broke I would have said Paterno was the last great coach that did everything right. It is sad that this is how Paterno will be remembered.
Robb
<< <i>He should have done more, glad he at least recognizes that. Sorry that his fans never will.
That was his house, and when somebody does something heinous in your house, and you are THE man...YOU make sure it is fixed! >>
I couldn't agree more, though as this thing unfolds the fact that Paterno made a huge mistake is quickly becoming one of the least interesting aspects of this scandal. Paterno botched the job-- just about every thoughtul, intellectually responsible person seems to agree on that. But what's interesting to me- or, at least, what's becoming interesting-- is how this scandal serves as a reminder to all of us of just how dehumanizing institutional life can become. If you stay in an institution long enough, and invest enough emotional and intellectual capital into it, it's well being can become far more important to you than the health and well-being of the innocent and defenseless.
Moreover, this process can happen to just about anybody. I refuse to believe that Paterno, or Curley, or McQueady (sp?), or even Spanier possessed personal moral codes that were substantially less developed than those possessed by the average American. History is rife with examples of men and women who, by almost any fair metric, were 'good people' succumbing to horrific lapses in good judgment, and the trait many of these people shared is that they happened to be integral cogs in an institutional machine. If we just point fingers at the PSU power brokers, bang our drums and bellow about how 'more should have been done' we don't end up learning anything from this mess- which means, in the long run, that the horrible price these children paid will be in vain. The thing to take from this scandal is a reminder of what large institutions can do to individual's ability to make good decisions- and to try to find ways, going forward, to mitigate the effect that an institutional life can and does have on humankind's ability to distinguish right from wrong.
Edit to add: An excellent example of this dynamic in action comes from Paterno's statement today. Once he's done coaching, what is he going to spend the rest of his life doing? Is he going to spend it on efforts to prevent the very kind of sexual abuse that occurred in his locker room? No- he's going to spend it trying to repair the damage DONE TO THE UNVERSITY. Even now, Paterno's primary goal is to repair damage done to the institution- not to repair the damage done to the kids that were abused by Sandusky. And this comes from the lips of Joseph Vincent Paterno, a man who (and I still believe this) is far more morally developed than the average American male. If institutional life can have this kind of effect on him, imagine the effect it can (and does) have on the rest of us.
<< <i>Joe Paterno has done so many things to help young people, and looking back, there are probably a lot of areas he wishes he could have done differently.
Unfortunately, in this horrible case, to make it into one of those, "I wish I had done more" instances ...he picked a pretty bad time to have a lapse in conscientious, that it does indeed outweigh so many of the good things he did in other areas. >>
Everyone can look back on what they could have done differently. You've bashed me, for whatever reason and i really couldn't care less, numerous times for the gambling addiction I wish I never had...but I've been clean for almost ten years now, things are going better than ever for me, and one important lesson I've learned is that is ain't no use looking back with regrets...just a waste of time and life.
Sinatra said in a song, "Regrets I've had a few, but then again too few to mention"...and I think that's a good way to move forward in life. Paterno publicly stated about his "regret", but I have no doubt that he has lost little if not hardly any sleep over his decision to contact the university administrator versus the police, because as I stated in a previous post, it is my viewpoint that in his mind he WAS contacting the police thru the administrator. Unfortunately people can get caught up in a tornado of sorts similar perhaps to innocent civilians who get killed during wartime.
I still say Paterno did nothing wrong, and did everything right...and i guess I'm in the minority on this...but as long as I'm not in the minority on election day 2012, I'll be very happy and hopefully be moving forward in a better business climate with more freedom and liberty for all.
I've said it previously, and I'll say it again - there seems to be an overwhelmingly large percentage of people ready to hang Paterno for this, but I promise you that a large percentage of those people would have done just what Joe did, if not less. You will never convince me otherwise.
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<< <i>This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. >>
~Paterno from his retirement statement
So...he admits he should have done more....thereby admitting that he was aware of Sandusky and his actions.
And this dope thinks he gets to call his own shot about when he's leaving? Ha ha He'll be gone before Nebraska if the Trustees have and respect for the children.
Full Statement >>
Agreed. He pays lip service to the victims, and only wants to cover his own ass again, and he has the audacity to tell the university what to do. If the Penn State board wants to preserve any remaining dignity the university has, Paterno and Spanier get fired TODAY.
<< <i> Too long to copy >>
Boo, your posts in this thread are, in my opinion, doing a fantastic job of pointing out the very human failings that lead up to these sort of systemic failings.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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<< <i>Troll? Please. I am just shocked how you have spun this situation. The liberal media establishment tearing down a staunch conservative. Rather than the failure to act by a man that defined his legacy as the moral high ground. The policy commissioner who knows more about this case than probably anyone involved said everything that needed to be said regarding Paterno and is moral responsibility.
Until this broke I would have said Paterno was the last great coach that did everything right. It is sad that this is how Paterno will be remembered.
Robb >>
With your 853 posts and a member for over four years, I'll clarify it - you are not a troll, and of course you don't need me to state that. but you misconstrued and spun the ideas in my posts. If some troll wants to do that then I couldn't care less simply because they are a troll...but you are not a troll so that's why I wanted to clarify why i wasn't going to respond....if you're following all that - LOL
Boopotts and I often disagree, but one thing I respect him for is he quotes my post and responds to the exact points with his viewpoint, and he usually does that with others as well. He doesn't type out some diatribe post that would take hours or for sure a lot of time for the other poster to defend and clarify their position. That's all I was saying about your mentioning me in your post. You actually brought some valid ideas to the table, and while i might disagree, I respect your viewpoint...whether you like it or not.
I'm sure most of you have heard what the Bible says about casting stones....I think some of these media members need some deep introspection before blasting away....
<< <i>In response to the poster that quoted what various writers have to say - where the F does Howard Bryant get off preaching about morality? This is the same guy that was seen in public choking his wife during an argument earlier this year.
I'm sure most of you have heard what the Bible says about casting stones....I think some of these media members need some deep introspection before blasting away.... >>
I suspect that a Venn diagram showing Bible readers and media members would have a VERY small intersecting area. I don't think politics plays a role in any of this, but I do think that the media delights in knocking down people on pedestals - celebrities, politicians, athletes, and others with high profiles. I also believe that the press goes even more full-bore when doing this to anyone they perceive as hypocritical. This leads to a lot of feeding frenzies where someone who is willing to live a highly moral live in the public eye, or at least espouses living morally, falls victim to normal human weaknesses and shortcomings.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq