<< <i>Assuming some of the bullion coins grade 70. They will be the hardest to get in MS70, IMO. But hey, you'll have 5 chances to get one or more in 70, if you play by the rules and only order the household limit of 5 sets. >>
Yeah, I think you're right, the bullion coin might be the most difficult to achieve / acquire in 70.
History speaks, this upcoming submission session might be like the 2010 ATB bullion, floodgates open, no 70s but lots of DM69s, floodgates close, no more 69s, let alone DM for the bullion coins.
What's the pop for 2011 bullion ASE in 70 grade? I ask because I can't look. Thanks!
The SF bullion ASE'S number 18,680 in MS70 with an astonishing 73% of submissions, while the W's number 12,921 with and even more astonishing 92% success rate for MS70. The proofs are at 5298 with just a 50% success rate for PF70.
I had the same thoughts as you in terms of grading these, as lots of us got really hosed after waiting to grade the ATB'S.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Want more amazing stats? Prior to 2010 (1986-2009) the "70" rate on MS ASE submissions was 5.9%. For 2010/2011 submissions it was 76.6%
You guys got a lot better at cherry-picking! >>
Those are astonishing figures. I wonder, are the coins being produced better, or is this a response to the dark side's traditionally more liberal grading?
<< <i>Want more amazing stats? Prior to 2010 (1986-2009) the "70" rate on MS ASE submissions was 5.9%. For 2010/2011 submissions it was 76.6%
You guys got a lot better at cherry-picking! >>
Those are astonishing figures. I wonder, are the coins being produced better, or is this a response to the dark side's traditionally more liberal grading?
Thanks for the post. >>
The quality of the PCGS 70's have deteriorated, but not quite as bad as the NGC ones. I've had to return several from my source because of spots & nicks, which should have been cought by the graders. "Not all 70's are created equal"
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
OPA I agree with you. I have sent back MS 70s to dealers that did not meet my criteria for a 70. I would never be able to sell it later on. I am talking about $1K, $2K coins
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
So they just forgot to take it down on this page, which is still active?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Buying 5 sets seems like a good flip, but I'm still really confused about whether submitting them (with or without FS) is worth the extra investment.
Does it just boil down to a gamble, with unknown odds? >>
Of course it does. How much do you like to gamble is the question.
Say you get less than a 69 on any of the coins.....likely that you will not break even after the fees. A 69 will likely break even or make a little bit. A 70 will score (depending on the coin or whole set).
Selling unopened will score, imho, somewhere between a 69 and a 70 (usually on the lower side) and you won't have all the fees in the risk side of the house.
I believe the higher MS70 grades being seen on the bullion ASE's has more to do with the way the mint is striking / handling them rather than the way PCGS is grading them, especially since the 2006 burnished dies came on the market.
Exactly why I won't have these graded and just have sealed. My overall 70 scores have not been good lately. Too much cost involved getting these graded. I will get individual boxes sealed. So maybe have some graded in a few years, but not now.
It really is a bummer PCGS got rid of the public Fridays... would have been nice to just drive on over and drop off the sealed box of these if I decided to get these graded. But now it's going to cost a ton in shipping and insurance just to get them to PCGS, especially if you end up with more than 5 sets that you want graded.
Because this is, after all, the 25th Anniversary Set, it would be nice if the Mint placed only the finest examples of its workmanship into the set. Unfortunately, that's probably not going to happen. This is, after all, the U.S. Mint. They've had a busy product year. I can just see them now slamming coins into these sets just to get them out the door & on to the next project.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public.
BST transactions Wondercoin, MCM, levinll, Zrlevin and ajaan. Been buying and selling coins on E-Bay since 2002 as Monk2580
<< <i>If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public. >>
yeah when the post office fails they have an employment pool for that one!
the cost would be like HSN and quality like self slabbing, IMHO.
<< <i>If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public. >>
As far as the bullion version ampex and the others already do this with the blessing of OUR mint. Going to flip one set and hopefully that will pay for the grading of the second but I"m in the same boat with NO 70 out of all my batches so I will send in just one and roll the dice...........Enjoy
I was, honestly, thinking of buying two or three sets, flipping two just to pay for my own and save one set, unopened.
I think for a modest collector, that would be a decent choice. That way I didn't miss out on anything and if I decide to sell later on, the buyer can get the FS designation if they so choose.
My rant for the year. First Strike is the most contrived designation evah (being from the Boston area). Collectors in twenty years (give or take some) will see it for what it is, a money maker for our host. Although PCGS may have done this for the demand of flippers, the designation has nothing to do with when a coin has been minted. My little collection will not be driven by this designation. Earlier in this thread, the observations were made that 70s have been given to coins minted late in the series. I think that PCGS and NGC have become lax in their grading standards during this period. I bought, through auction, an FS 2011 ASE MS70. When it came to me, across the bridge of her neck was a nice crease, similar to those on Morgan dollars. The best it should have been graded is maybe a 67. Although I'm aware of the PCGS guarantee, I was none too pleased with this coin (bullion) when I got it. Thanks for listening (reading).
Since the reverse proof and the "S" mintmark are unique to this set and we can expect a sell-out within 2-3 days tops: Will all 2011 ASE reverse proofs and 2011-S pieces be First Strike eligible?
Since the reverse proof and the "S" mintmark are unique to this set and we can expect a sell-out within 2-3 days tops: Will all 2011 ASE reverse proofs and 2011-S pieces be First Strike eligible? >>
In reality why would the other three be FS eligible at all?? They are regular coins struck after the original versions and just added to the set. Definitely not FS just because they are part of a late issued set
Man, I opened this thread thinking it would actually be about COINS. I guess its really just about the insert on the holder. What silly designation or "perfect" grade could be denoted for a modern coin that goes from plastic mint capsules to plastic pcgs holders without any wear or circulation whatsoever. Some will never even be opened from the mint shipping boxes. Ah, the new collecting mentality. I'm in for 5...
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public. >>
yeah when the post office fails they have an employment pool for that one!
the cost would be like HSN and quality like self slabbing, IMHO.
leave it to PCGS. >>
PCGS should just set up an operation at each of the mint facilities.
I've called one of my contacts at the mint and she confirmed with me that there will be only 100,000 of these sets. As far as she is aware no other number was ever stated.
Because to Err is Human. I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading. Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>I've called one of my contacts at the mint and she confirmed with me that there will be only 100,000 of these sets. As far as she is aware no other number was ever stated. >>
<< <i>My rant for the year. First Strike is the most contrived designation evah (being from the Boston area). Collectors in twenty years (give or take some) will see it for what it is, a money maker for our host. Although PCGS may have done this for the demand of flippers, the designation has nothing to do with when a coin has been minted. My little collection will not be driven by this designation. Earlier in this thread, the observations were made that 70s have been given to coins minted late in the series. I think that PCGS and NGC have become lax in their grading standards during this period. I bought, through auction, an FS 2011 ASE MS70. When it came to me, across the bridge of her neck was a nice crease, similar to those on Morgan dollars. The best it should have been graded is maybe a 67. Although I'm aware of the PCGS guarantee, I was none too pleased with this coin (bullion) when I got it. Thanks for listening (reading). >>
I'm not a believer in FS either, but I get them because so many others are.
I think it is all part of the "who's first" game people have in their heads. One example I give is the serial/VIN on classic cars. Ok, Ok, so if the specifics of a turly rare car yield only a few surviving cars then a low serial/VIN might be desirable, and yes they left the factory sooner.... but the classic cars with lower serial/VIN don't have tighter tolerances. They're not necessarily better made. And they are all grouped by model year anyway, they aren't that far apart in date of manufacture. It's just a number. Yet people pay up for lower serial/VIN. I don't get that either. But it is more of the same. In Delaware, (and another state, too I think) all the license plates are numbers. There is a "1" license plate. It's a status symbol to have low numbered plates in DE (family had first registered car plates in DE). It's almost like being in the social registry.
But you know... as soon as someone jumps on "first one made" then "second one made" looks better than "third one made."
And for FS / ER designation? Well, they do leave earlier than the last ones made.
<< <i>I've called one of my contacts at the mint and she confirmed with me that there will be only 100,000 of these sets. As far as she is aware no other number was ever stated. >>
I still wonder if they will exceed it if orders from the first few days show a higher demand.
"And for FS / ER designation? Well, they do leave earlier than the last ones made."
In most cases that is correct to a point ...but....the bullion coin in this set has been available for 10 months! How can you call this coin "First Strike" or "EARLY Release"???? Same point but not as blatant applies to the proof. First Strike deadline for the PF was August 4th and for the bullion FEBRUARY 4th.....
....and they very well could be close to "the last ones made" for the year..definitely closer than the ones shipped in January or July
I bet there will be no ER across the street on these....
Ok I thought if you submit a set of five all of them will be in a holder that says 25 anniversary on it? So even if those others were released months ago they cannot find there way into the NEW labels right? And if there is a new label for these than you almost have to have the first strike on each one even if we all know it doesn't mean anything because the public is going to want them with the new label. Right? Enjoy
<< <i>I get it now....it's not the COINS that are FS it is the LABELS!! They're the 1st LABELS struck..now it makes perfect sense....I can go with that >>
First Strike means the product must be shipped within the 30 day window. This is a new product. Its the product, not the items in the product that count. At least this is how I read the FS guidelines for this particular item.
Comments
After all, there's only one silver anniversary for American Silver Eagles!
<< <i>Assuming some of the bullion coins grade 70. They will be the hardest to get in MS70, IMO. But hey, you'll have 5 chances to get one or more in 70, if you play by
the rules and only order the household limit of 5 sets. >>
Yeah, I think you're right, the bullion coin might be the most difficult to achieve / acquire in 70.
History speaks, this upcoming submission session might be like the 2010 ATB bullion, floodgates open, no 70s but lots of DM69s, floodgates close, no more 69s, let alone DM for the bullion coins.
What's the pop for 2011 bullion ASE in 70 grade? I ask because I can't look. Thanks!
The SF bullion ASE'S number 18,680 in MS70 with an astonishing 73% of submissions, while the W's number 12,921 with and even more astonishing 92% success rate for MS70. The proofs are at 5298 with just a 50% success rate for PF70.
I had the same thoughts as you in terms of grading these, as lots of us got really hosed after waiting to grade the ATB'S.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
You guys got a lot better at cherry-picking!
<< <i>Want more amazing stats? Prior to 2010 (1986-2009) the "70" rate on MS ASE submissions was 5.9%. For 2010/2011 submissions it was 76.6%
You guys got a lot better at cherry-picking!
Those are astonishing figures. I wonder, are the coins being produced better, or is this a response to the dark side's traditionally more liberal grading?
Thanks for the post.
<< <i>
<< <i>Want more amazing stats? Prior to 2010 (1986-2009) the "70" rate on MS ASE submissions was 5.9%. For 2010/2011 submissions it was 76.6%
You guys got a lot better at cherry-picking!
Those are astonishing figures. I wonder, are the coins being produced better, or is this a response to the dark side's traditionally more liberal grading?
Thanks for the post. >>
The quality of the PCGS 70's have deteriorated, but not quite as bad as the NGC ones. I've had to return several from my source because of spots & nicks, which should have been cought by the graders. "Not all 70's are created equal"
Box of 20
(Fifth item down)
linky
<< <i>Anybody believe this price for the set?
(Fifth item down)
linky >>
I would guess $229.95 to 279.95 but It looks like silver will make to point to the lower side
<< <i>Anybody believe this price for the set?
(Fifth item down)
linky >>
Yup, that was noticed and posted last Friday...but...the original page with the $229 price has been changed to TBD
Upcoming products
They probably haven't removed that other price yet.... (or it IS the price
Does it just boil down to a gamble, with unknown odds?
<< <i>Buying 5 sets seems like a good flip, but I'm still really confused about whether submitting them (with or without FS) is worth the extra investment.
Does it just boil down to a gamble, with unknown odds? >>
Of course it does.
How much do you like to gamble is the question.
Say you get less than a 69 on any of the coins.....likely that you will not break even after the fees.
A 69 will likely break even or make a little bit.
A 70 will score (depending on the coin or whole set).
Selling unopened will score, imho, somewhere between a 69 and a 70 (usually on the lower side) and you won't have all the fees in the risk side of the house.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
striking / handling them rather than the way PCGS is grading them, especially since the 2006 burnished dies
came on the market.
Box of 20
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Because this is, after all, the 25th Anniversary Set, it would be nice if the Mint placed only the finest examples of its workmanship into the set. Unfortunately, that's probably not going to happen. This is, after all, the U.S. Mint. They've had a busy product year. I can just see them now slamming coins into these sets just to get them out the door & on to the next project.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public. >>
yeah when the post office fails they have an employment pool for that one!
the cost would be like HSN and quality like self slabbing, IMHO.
leave it to PCGS.
<< <i>If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public. >>
As far as the bullion version ampex and the others already do this with the blessing of OUR mint. Going to flip one set and hopefully that will pay for the grading of the second but I"m in the same boat with NO 70 out of all my batches so I will send in just one and roll the dice...........Enjoy
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
you will get an MS62 in a MS70 slab........
Box of 20
I think for a modest collector, that would be a decent choice. That way I didn't miss out on anything and if I decide to sell later on, the buyer can get the FS designation if they so choose.
Earlier in this thread, the observations were made that 70s have been given to coins minted late in the series. I think that PCGS and NGC have become lax in their grading standards during this period. I bought, through auction, an FS 2011 ASE MS70. When it came to me, across the bridge of her neck was a nice crease, similar to those on Morgan dollars. The best it should have been graded is maybe a 67. Although I'm aware of the PCGS guarantee, I was none too pleased with this coin (bullion) when I got it.
Thanks for listening (reading).
I am planning on getting 5 sets. Three will be flipped unopened in one lot and I will hold the other two ( I don't need to open them to see what
they look like) for possible grading when I renew my PCGS membership next year.
Since the reverse proof and the "S" mintmark are unique to this set and we can expect a sell-out within 2-3 days tops: Will all 2011 ASE reverse proofs and 2011-S pieces be First Strike eligible?
<< <i>Thought on First Strike.
Since the reverse proof and the "S" mintmark are unique to this set and we can expect a sell-out within 2-3 days tops: Will all 2011 ASE reverse proofs and 2011-S pieces be First Strike eligible?
In reality why would the other three be FS eligible at all?? They are regular coins struck after the original versions and just added to the set. Definitely not FS just because they are part of a late issued set
I guess its really just about the insert on the holder. What silly designation or "perfect" grade could be denoted for a modern coin that goes from plastic mint capsules to plastic pcgs holders without any wear or circulation whatsoever.
Some will never even be opened from the mint shipping boxes.
Ah, the new collecting mentality.
I'm in for 5...
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
we all know it's a label game and nothing more
<< <i>
<< <i>If the US Mint got smart they would create a special division of the mint specializing in the sale of graded coins. They could cherry pick the best coins and sell those directly to the public. >>
yeah when the post office fails they have an employment pool for that one!
the cost would be like HSN and quality like self slabbing, IMHO.
leave it to PCGS. >>
PCGS should just set up an operation at each of the mint facilities.
<< <i>the 06 proof's in the 20th sets were FS eligible
we all know it's a label game and nothing more >>
I agree.....doesn't make any more sense knowing that though....
That bullion coin in the 25th Anniversary set could have been struck a month ago and the FS cutoff date was Feb 4th......dumb, really dumb
<< <i>Mintage close to 2006 level .. from a Eagle Mint distributor >>
Surprise, surprise.
Figures.
That the mintage hasn't been posted by the mint on the web page, your post has credibility.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mintage close to 2006 level .. from a Eagle Mint distributor >>
Surprise, surprise.
Figures.
That the mintage hasn't been posted by the mint on the web page, your post has credibility. >>
I am still going with the 100,000 mintage that was used at the announcement. Anything else is no better than anyone's guess.
Loves me some shiny!
As far as she is aware no other number was ever stated.
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
<< <i>I've called one of my contacts at the mint and she confirmed with me that there will be only 100,000 of these sets.
As far as she is aware no other number was ever stated. >>
Me like mint contacts!
<< <i>My rant for the year. First Strike is the most contrived designation evah (being from the Boston area). Collectors in twenty years (give or take some) will see it for what it is, a money maker for our host. Although PCGS may have done this for the demand of flippers, the designation has nothing to do with when a coin has been minted. My little collection will not be driven by this designation.
Earlier in this thread, the observations were made that 70s have been given to coins minted late in the series. I think that PCGS and NGC have become lax in their grading standards during this period. I bought, through auction, an FS 2011 ASE MS70. When it came to me, across the bridge of her neck was a nice crease, similar to those on Morgan dollars. The best it should have been graded is maybe a 67. Although I'm aware of the PCGS guarantee, I was none too pleased with this coin (bullion) when I got it.
Thanks for listening (reading). >>
I'm not a believer in FS either, but I get them because so many others are.
I think it is all part of the "who's first" game people have in their heads. One example I give is the serial/VIN on classic cars. Ok, Ok, so if the specifics of a turly rare car yield only a few surviving cars then a low serial/VIN might be desirable, and yes they left the factory sooner.... but the classic cars with lower serial/VIN don't have tighter tolerances. They're not necessarily better made. And they are all grouped by model year anyway, they aren't that far apart in date of manufacture. It's just a number. Yet people pay up for lower serial/VIN. I don't get that either. But it is more of the same. In Delaware, (and another state, too I think) all the license plates are numbers. There is a "1" license plate. It's a status symbol to have low numbered plates in DE (family had first registered car plates in DE). It's almost like being in the social registry.
But you know... as soon as someone jumps on "first one made" then "second one made" looks better than "third one made."
And for FS / ER designation? Well, they do leave earlier than the last ones made.
So, the mania continues.....
<< <i>I've called one of my contacts at the mint and she confirmed with me that there will be only 100,000 of these sets.
As far as she is aware no other number was ever stated. >>
I still wonder if they will exceed it if orders from the first few days show a higher demand.
They aren't shipping until Nov.....
<< <i>Isn't the mintage designated in the law that authorizes the minting of them? >>
these are minted under the numismatic authority Congress gave the Mint.
There is no special law for this particular issue.
<< <i>
<< <i>Isn't the mintage designated in the law that authorizes the minting of them? >>
these are minted under the numismatic authority Congress gave the Mint.
There is no special law for this particular issue. >>
Then they should fall under the original public law for SAE's that states they will be minted to meet public demand.
In most cases that is correct to a point ...but....the bullion coin in this set has been available for 10 months! How can you call this coin "First Strike" or "EARLY Release"???? Same point but not as blatant applies to the proof. First Strike deadline for the PF was August 4th and for the bullion FEBRUARY 4th.....
....and they very well could be close to "the last ones made" for the year..definitely closer than the ones shipped in January or July
I bet there will be no ER across the street on these....
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>I get it now....it's not the COINS that are FS it is the LABELS!! They're the 1st LABELS struck..now it makes perfect sense....I can go with that >>
really?
Box of 20