1). Im 22 and know a ton of people my age who collect coins. If nothing else, gold and modern "bullion"...which to a lot of people the 25th sets fall into. 2). Are you talking about 70 sets or single coins? Because 2006 70 sets are going for wayyy more than 500 and either way, their value has consistently gone up since they hit their "bottom". 3). The ASEs are and have been different than most modern coins. I am currently selling a huge part of my dad's modern collection. All his ASEs he at least tripled/quadrupled or more what he spent. Yes, has to do with cost of silver, but ASEs have a different collector's base than most modern coins, and the "investment" in silver makes people interested in these, who otherwise might not be.
Obviously anything is speculation, but it's simple enough to look at the history behind these. Seems like most people just ignore that...to each his own. Personally, I wish I was independently wealthy, I'd buy as many 70 sets as I could right now and wait 6 months or a year or 2. >>
Most of my age are interested in stock market and not coins (I'm 27). As for the sets, I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid, and another ending around $478.00. Just speculation, personally I'm keeping my almost full 70 set in the vault for my kids and my full set of 69s for sale later on to buy the next ASE. I guess the thing I'm missing is I wonder if there really are 100,000 + collectors out there that go after the ASE. I think it might be less than 100k collectors for ASE based on the article I read about a show in Michigan where the collectors were trying to get rid of their sets or trying to buy the full opened set for $400.00.
<< <i>Have any you want to dump? I'll pick em up on the cheap >>
No way lol. Keeping my 2011 25th ASE set for life! =D
If the initial Mercanti labels are a "limited edition" and IF a revision is due, won't this affect the Mercanti market? >>
Label varieties, but
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid >>
Link please. >>
Love to see that one myself.....especially with raw sets going for more. If it was such a great deal, why didn't you jump on it? Would have given you a FULL perfect set to tuck away for the kids.
1). Im 22 and know a ton of people my age who collect coins. If nothing else, gold and modern "bullion"...which to a lot of people the 25th sets fall into. 2). Are you talking about 70 sets or single coins? Because 2006 70 sets are going for wayyy more than 500 and either way, their value has consistently gone up since they hit their "bottom". 3). The ASEs are and have been different than most modern coins. I am currently selling a huge part of my dad's modern collection. All his ASEs he at least tripled/quadrupled or more what he spent. Yes, has to do with cost of silver, but ASEs have a different collector's base than most modern coins, and the "investment" in silver makes people interested in these, who otherwise might not be.
Obviously anything is speculation, but it's simple enough to look at the history behind these. Seems like most people just ignore that...to each his own. Personally, I wish I was independently wealthy, I'd buy as many 70 sets as I could right now and wait 6 months or a year or 2. >>
Most of my age are interested in stock market and not coins (I'm 27). As for the sets, I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid, and another ending around $478.00. Just speculation, personally I'm keeping my almost full 70 set in the vault for my kids and my full set of 69s for sale later on to buy the next ASE. I guess the thing I'm missing is I wonder if there really are 100,000 + collectors out there that go after the ASE. I think it might be less than 100k collectors for ASE based on the article I read about a show in Michigan where the collectors were trying to get rid of their sets or trying to buy the full opened set for $400.00.
<< <i>Have any you want to dump? I'll pick em up on the cheap >>
No way lol. Keeping my 2011 25th ASE set for life! =D >>
You used morgan dollars as an example earlier as something that is very popular...well, there are a lot more than 100k morgans out there. As for the age thing...doesn't really matter. There are a lot of collector's out there, who really cares what their age is and if younger people are in stocks? I play in the stock market, coins, a lot more...so you can't just pinpoint coins, or stocks, or anything to one age group.
And if you saw a 70 set going for 600 Im pretty sure you dreamt it...but if not, like others have said, please show a link. Seems to be some confusion there...
1). Im 22 and know a ton of people my age who collect coins. If nothing else, gold and modern "bullion"...which to a lot of people the 25th sets fall into. 2). Are you talking about 70 sets or single coins? Because 2006 70 sets are going for wayyy more than 500 and either way, their value has consistently gone up since they hit their "bottom". 3). The ASEs are and have been different than most modern coins. I am currently selling a huge part of my dad's modern collection. All his ASEs he at least tripled/quadrupled or more what he spent. Yes, has to do with cost of silver, but ASEs have a different collector's base than most modern coins, and the "investment" in silver makes people interested in these, who otherwise might not be.
Obviously anything is speculation, but it's simple enough to look at the history behind these. Seems like most people just ignore that...to each his own. Personally, I wish I was independently wealthy, I'd buy as many 70 sets as I could right now and wait 6 months or a year or 2. >>
I'm usually one of the young guys at coin shows, but you've got me beat by more than 10 years that's for sure. Your point is well taken though as I'm another collector who started collecting/hoarding ASE's in the last five years. I view these the same way you do and I'm very thankful that I knew about these well before they came out. If you haven't purchased Eric Jordan's awesome book on modern commen's you should immediately buy it and read it cover to cover. That book will change your perspective on stacking and enable you to put away tomorrow's keys for melt price today if you're savvy enough .
<< <i>I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid >>
Link please. >>
Love to see that one myself.....especially with raw sets going for more. If it was such a great deal, why didn't you jump on it? Would have given you a FULL perfect set to tuck away for the kids.
edited to add...unless it was graded by SGS >>
It doean't exist unless it was mistitled. I searched back through the eBay sales for two weeks and nothing even close. Closest one that shows it didn't sell was a 69 set that was pulled but the seller. Blowing smoke!
"If it was such a great deal, why didn't you jump on it?"
I was thinking the same thing. Makes the smoke even more thicker!
I saw the set on eBay I believe like 2 or 3 days ago but it was ending with 0 bids with buy it now at $600.00. Not sure how many days it was put up for but I tried looking for it to see if I saved it in case I wanted to buy it later but I was cleaning up yesterday and deleted the ones that ended =
Can't prove it now though = I didn't think the 2006 was worth as much from what I was seeing:
Currently on eBay full set nongraded $382.50 buy it now
2006 70 ultra $189.00 buy it now 2006 P70DCAM $269.00 buy it now 2006 MS70 $154.00 buy it now
The 3 70s would then be $612.00 if you buy those 3 separately...or am I looking at the wrong 2006 ASE sets?
<< <i>I found this forum searching for information on the 25th Anniversary ASE sets, and decided to join to offer my opinions on a couple issues.
"Set" designation: From what I can gather, there are only two ways to know for a fact that all five coins are from a Mint assembled/delivered Set - either leave it in the sealed Mint packaging, or submit sealed for PCGS "Set" designation. It truly troubles me the the other TPGs allow opened sets to get the "Set" designation, and I believe it will cause much confusion and trouble down the road. It is possible to have many, many, more "Sets" than the Mint actually produced. Send an open set to NGC, or one of the other grading services that allows open boxes for "set" designation, and get the set slabbed as a 25th Ann "Set". Sell the three slabbed non-key "Set" coins, crack out the two keys, add three non-keys from the Millions previously produced, put them all back in the OGP, and resubmit. Repeat and many times as you wish? We may end up with substantially more non-key "Set" coins than were actually produced. And, I sure hope PCGS recognizes this, and refuses to label the non-key coins as "Set" coins, just because it is on one of the other TPG's labels, as these do not have the traceable "pedigree" that PCGS requires and maintains.
Value of the Set: I do think we can look at the 20th Ann ASE set to give us an idea of future value. Right now these are 3X issue price minimum, and had 2.5 times the mintage. Assuming similar rise in Silver bullion price, and "equivalent" economy, I think we're looking at $300 X 3 X 2.5 = $2250 for a set. The PCGS set designation should command a premium over both "open" sets, and other TPG coin "sets", for the reasons stated above (no foolproof pedigree). In addition, the three non-keys with "Set" designation should command a premium over their non-set counterparts, but only if in PCGS slabs, because ALL other TPG "set" designations are questionable on the three non-keys.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide my opinions, and that's all that this is - my opinions.
Bill >>
Sorry but you must be corrected on the set designation issue. The only company out there that will give you a "set" designation wether it is sealed or not is ANACS. Both PCGS and NGC require sealed boxes to give all 5 coins the "set"designation
I think the set he is talking about was an NGC brown label 2006-w ms70, a NGC black label revpf70, and a blue label PCGS pr70 -wiyh a 20th anniversary box-that didn't sell for 799. A 20th anniversary PCGS non first strike 70 set just sold for $2475. These are eBay prices.
The $600 70 set couldn't of been an Anni set. Every MS70 06 Anni I've sold did 600+ with only a short dip in 07 when they were 550-ish. I sold my last one a few months back. The RP70 started at 600 the fell to 450 by 08 and stayed there. I sold my last in sept at 460. The 70UCAM's started at 160, then dipped to 90 in 07 the came back to 160. btw I had 50 sets graded ATS so I had a few 70's to go through.
<< <i>I found this forum searching for information on the 25th Anniversary ASE sets, and decided to join to offer my opinions on a couple issues.
"Set" designation: From what I can gather, there are only two ways to know for a fact that all five coins are from a Mint assembled/delivered Set - either leave it in the sealed Mint packaging, or submit sealed for PCGS "Set" designation. It truly troubles me the the other TPGs allow opened sets to get the "Set" designation, and I believe it will cause much confusion and trouble down the road. It is possible to have many, many, more "Sets" than the Mint actually produced. Send an open set to ANACS, or one of the other grading services that allows open boxes for "set" designation, and get the set slabbed as a 25th Ann "Set". Sell the three slabbed non-key "Set" coins, crack out the two keys, add three non-keys from the Millions previously produced, put them all back in the OGP, and resubmit. Repeat and many times as you wish? We may end up with substantially more non-key "Set" coins than were actually produced. And, I sure hope PCGS recognizes this, and refuses to label the non-key coins as "Set" coins, just because it is on one of the other TPG's labels, as these do not have the traceable "pedigree" that PCGS requires and maintains.
Value of the Set: I do think we can look at the 20th Ann ASE set to give us an idea of future value. Right now these are 3X issue price minimum, and had 2.5 times the mintage. Assuming similar rise in Silver bullion price, and "equivalent" economy, I think we're looking at $300 X 3 X 2.5 = $2250 for a set. The PCGS set designation should command a premium over both "open" sets, and other TPG coin "sets", for the reasons stated above (no foolproof pedigree). In addition, the three non-keys with "Set" designation should command a premium over their non-set counterparts, provided proper pedigree.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide my opinions, and that's all that this is - my opinions.
(Edited to add) Some information above is not correct, thank you to rodzm for correcting. Evidently, only ANACS will allow "set" designation on open boxes, which may contribute to issues noted above.
Bill >>
You forget one other important issue, the 100,000 sets are limited by the "S" coin and the RP coin so there can be no more than 100,000 sets no matter what ANACS does or doesn't do.
<< <i>I saw the set on eBay I believe like 2 or 3 days ago but it was ending with 0 bids with buy it now at $600.00. Not sure how many days it was put up for but I tried looking for it to see if I saved it in case I wanted to buy it later but I was cleaning up yesterday and deleted the ones that ended =
Can't prove it now though = I didn't think the 2006 was worth as much from what I was seeing:
Currently on eBay full set nongraded $382.50 buy it now
2006 70 ultra $189.00 buy it now 2006 P70DCAM $269.00 buy it now 2006 MS70 $154.00 buy it now
The 3 70s would then be $612.00 if you buy those 3 separately...or am I looking at the wrong 2006 ASE sets? >>
I'm not sure what you are looking at, but I'd guess it is this:
That is a 70 set but not PCGS...hence the lowball #. Other than that, I wonder if the coins you've listed are plain Bullion and not coins with the 20th pedigree and or certainly not 70's graded by PCGS.
<< <i>I saw the set on eBay I believe like 2 or 3 days ago but it was ending with 0 bids with buy it now at $600.00. Not sure how many days it was put up for but I tried looking for it to see if I saved it in case I wanted to buy it later but I was cleaning up yesterday and deleted the ones that ended =
Can't prove it now though = I didn't think the 2006 was worth as much from what I was seeing:
Currently on eBay full set nongraded $382.50 buy it now
2006 70 ultra $189.00 buy it now 2006 P70DCAM $269.00 buy it now 2006 MS70 $154.00 buy it now
The 3 70s would then be $612.00 if you buy those 3 separately...or am I looking at the wrong 2006 ASE sets? >>
This is where it helps to know the grading companies, differences in value perceived to each, and what the gist of most of the conversations that you are getting into the middle of are about....
For grading, you are on a PCGS board and you are linking to, and comparing, ICG graded coins. Not apples to apples
For differences in value, PCGS graded moderns, such as the SAEs, particularly in the ultimate grade of 70, far outshine competitors. ICG doesn't even really come into play for knowledgeable collectors in these items. They are fine, maybe, if someone just wants to "protect" the coin, but not for "investment" or "flipping/selling". They are actually akin to raw (so the $600+ is actually amazing...if it can be gotten).
The gist of the conversations in this thread....well, again, you are on a PCGS board. They will largely gravitate towards PCGS graded coins and values. NGC graded coins and values also come up and you still need to be aware of what people are talking about and the different values (and possibly grading and labeling that each has) associated.
I hate the flag labels. Ignoring the values of the different labels or whatever, am I the only one who likes the black and white better? The flag label seems way too cliche and almost fake/cheesy looking. Just curious. I've only heard bad things about the Mercanti labels and I really like them.
I have been watching the post on all the various boards and one of the favorite topics of discussion is the falling prices of the 25th anniversary set. Flippers are concerned because their short term margins are falling and being that I am concerned about non collectors making a killing (NOT) I started looking through the data for real guidance. One of the things I do to get a better picture of what is going on is to take past behavior and tend it out a couple years or so to give me insight into what the collector looking through the US Coin Digest or Red book will see in time. Below is a non final final listing of the mint state silver eagle series with the current sales trends tacked on out to the end of 2014.
What do you see? I see a MASSIVE population of modern silver dollars about to blow past the Morgans surviving total population. I see multimillion mintage common dates right next to coins whose mintages look like rounding errors on the common dates. I see two coins that are holes in the chart. Thats the 2008W with the 07 reverse and and the 2011S. The 2008W is a serious coin buts its easy to say I dont collect die varieties and pass over it in the minds of some collectors but its tough to pass by the 2011s with such logic. Mint marks have a long history of being drastically stronger form of product differentiation than die varies are. There is a very rough formula for pricing a strong series king as long as you don,t have too many so called key dates with similar mintages.
Its PK=Ps(k)(ms/mk)^(a little less than 2) Pk= price of key Ps= price of second key in this case the 2006 w at $65 Ms= mintage of second key in this case 466,000 Mk= mintage of key in this case about 100,000 K= a constant that moves around in this case say about .8 the power term is 1.5 to 2 in this case say 1.8
SO PK= 65x.8x(466000/100000)^1.8= about a grand at the time of series maturity. Now don't put too much faith in this number because it very rough. This year the new second place coin could be the 2011w with a 300,000 mintage and the formula will then give you a mature key price closer to $750 for a run of the mill MS69. But the point is this this coin is incredibly strong in a series whose population looks like it has no end. Obviously this is just one coin in the 25th anniversary set but I think the 2011s will bring more than the raw 5 coin sets are now all by itself over time. And not too much time at that.
If you were not able to order one of the 25th silver sets at $299 from the Mint and you would like one then dont get real worried about spending say $600-$800 on one. Just shop around and find one that looks good. Try to see it in person if you can. Be a little quality conscious. Be patient and dont let this "falling knife" mentality effect you. The knife is already bouncing on the floor.
<< <i>sellers of PCGS 70 FS sets at sub 1300, what are you thinking? feels like the 2009 UHR fire sale of MS70FS coins at 1700 - just as stupid a move. we have to be scraping the bottom. >>
Especially when you look at the prices that some of the singles are bringing. I can understand strong prices for the Rev Proof and S mint coins (some recent S mint prices don't make sense), but the regular proof has been bringing $300 in an FS70 Flag holder. One could almost rationalize buying 70 sets , breaking them up to sell the keys (and maybe the PR) individually and end up keeping the non-keys for free after all expenses.
Just wanted to put a Thank You out to Coinbar and Classof67 and Ahrensdad and the BST. I have now completed a 70 and a 69 set to keep. I suggest anyone looking to trade use the BST very easy to use, and alot less expensive trying to sell and than buy the ones you need. Enjoy tom
I sold the lone 70 I got out of 2 sets. It was the W Proof and I got $329 (minus fees) for it on ebay. I also sold the lone 68 (W bullion) for $60 and proceeded to buy back both coins in 69 to make 2 complete 69 sets. I paid $110 each for the 69's which I felt was a bit high, but I didn't care because I made money doing this anyway. These were FS Flag labels. My conclusion, if you have some lone 70's it might be a good time to dump them as people needing them to complete sets will pay strong money.
Okay just got off the phone with our host, had the question regarding F S Cutoff, Now in another thread someone said they go by the packing label inside the box, but our host told me no they go by the date on the outside, Now one of my buddies boxes came to his post office box so a different label than the over night label from ups, this one had no date on the outside. Now Does anyone have the packing slip you got back with your coins ? I accidently threw mine away but was sure it showed the date of the order and not the day I got them? I am hoping the number on the box from usps will show that it was shipped before the cutoff date. And I was told to write this info down on the form if and when he decided to send them in. But I really would like to know what others packing slips have said . thanks
Seems like a nice arbitrage situation. NGC 70 sets are going for $1200 and 69's around $800. You can buy a sealed box of 5 sets for around $3300. NGC is grading about 70% 70's, so if you assume 3 70 sets and 2 69 sets you are looking at a gross of $5200 minus $500 in grading fees and shipping which leaves you with $4700. Then take 10% in ebay fees and you are left with about $4300 or a $1000 profit, not bad.
<< <i>Seems like a nice arbitrage situation. NGC 70 sets are going for $1200 and 69's around $800. You can buy a sealed box of 5 sets for around $3300. NGC is grading about 70% 70's, so if you assume 3 70 sets and 2 69 sets you are looking at a gross of $5200 minus $500 in grading fees and shipping which leaves you with $4700. Then take 10% in ebay fees and you are left with about $4300 or a $1000 profit, not bad. >>
There are a lot of assumptions in there. I would say that at this point, if you're buying sets to be graded and flipped and not a dealer with a way to distribute these, you need to be willing to hold them till the market firms...as much as a year. If the expectation is to make a quick buck, IMHO you're just as likely to breakeven/lose money as you are to make it as the market declines.
Yes, at some point they might make an arbitrary decision to cut back on 70's and your formula might be in jeopardy...might be a lot of work for a break even. I do agree for a long hold it should be a deal.
<< <i>Yes, at some point they might make an arbitrary decision to cut back on 70's and your formula might be in jeopardy...might be a lot of work for a break even. I do agree for a long hold it should be a deal. >>
Why would they just decide to "cut back"? Seems very unfair and likely to p$ss a bunch of paying customers off. That's not good business at all.
Okay just got off the phone with our host, had the question regarding F S Cutoff, Now in another thread someone said they go by the packing label inside the box, but our host told me no they go by the date on the outside, Now one of my buddies boxes came to his post office box so a different label than the over night label from ups, this one had no date on the outside. Now Does anyone have the packing slip you got back with your coins ? I accidently threw mine away but was sure it showed the date of the order and not the day I got them? I am hoping the number on the box from usps will show that it was shipped before the cutoff date. And I was told to write this info down on the form if and when he decided to send them in. But I really would like to know what others packing slips have said . thanks
I had 5 sent to a P.O. Box. I guess you can go to your account order page and print out the shipping information. It will have the date shipped and delivered on the USPS web site. But it may disappear later on. Best to make a copy of it if you send these to PCGS.
My point is that NGC's ratio of 70's is as high as I've seen them do and the market is showing this by discounting NGC sets, maybe someone there will say wait a minute...let's look a little more closely at this next batch and...wham!!! Not saying it will happen, just that it might.
<< <i>Mint Packing Slip, does not show a date. It does indicate the Carrier: Next Day Air, along with the Tracking #. >>
The box of 1 that I opened was dated 11/30/11 in the upper right corner of the packing slip.
HH
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>My point is that NGC's ratio of 70's is as high as I've seen them do and the market is showing this by discounting NGC sets, maybe someone there will say wait a minute...let's look a little more closely at this next batch and...wham!!! Not saying it will happen, just that it might. >>
Well I suppose that it is possible but would be very bad for business and I'm sure they realize that. Consistency is paramount in grading otherwise you steal from one collector and give to another. NGC coins are generally discounted against PCGS coins across the board, nothing new there. I would think they would keep doing what they are doing due to the fact that they have graded about 3X the coins in this set that PCGS has. Apparently a lot of their customers are happy with the way they grade. I'd personally be surprised if they changed anything.
<< <i>My point is that NGC's ratio of 70's is as high as I've seen them do and the market is showing this by discounting NGC sets, maybe someone there will say wait a minute...let's look a little more closely at this next batch and...wham!!! Not saying it will happen, just that it might. >>
Well I suppose that it is possible but would be very bad for business and I'm sure they realize that. Consistency is paramount in grading otherwise you steal from one collector and give to another. NGC coins are generally discounted against PCGS coins across the board, nothing new there. I would think they would keep doing what they are doing due to the fact that they have graded about 3X the coins in this set that PCGS has. Apparently a lot of their customers are happy with the way they grade. I'd personally be surprised if they changed anything. >>
Comments
<< <i>
Response by number:
1). Im 22 and know a ton of people my age who collect coins. If nothing else, gold and modern "bullion"...which to a lot of people the 25th sets fall into.
2). Are you talking about 70 sets or single coins? Because 2006 70 sets are going for wayyy more than 500 and either way, their value has consistently gone up since they hit their "bottom".
3). The ASEs are and have been different than most modern coins. I am currently selling a huge part of my dad's modern collection. All his ASEs he at least tripled/quadrupled or more what he spent. Yes, has to do with cost of silver, but ASEs have a different collector's base than most modern coins, and the "investment" in silver makes people interested in these, who otherwise might not be.
Obviously anything is speculation, but it's simple enough to look at the history behind these. Seems like most people just ignore that...to each his own. Personally, I wish I was independently wealthy, I'd buy as many 70 sets as I could right now and wait 6 months or a year or 2. >>
Most of my age are interested in stock market and not coins (I'm 27). As for the sets, I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid, and another ending around $478.00. Just speculation, personally I'm keeping my almost full 70 set in the vault for my kids and my full set of 69s for sale later on to buy the next ASE. I guess the thing I'm missing is I wonder if there really are 100,000 + collectors out there that go after the ASE. I think it might be less than 100k collectors for ASE based on the article I read about a show in Michigan where the collectors were trying to get rid of their sets or trying to buy the full opened set for $400.00.
<< <i>Have any you want to dump? I'll pick em up on the cheap >>
No way lol. Keeping my 2011 25th ASE set for life! =D
<< <i>I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid >>
Link please.
Label varieties,
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i> As for the sets, I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid, >>
including you
<< <i>
<< <i>I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid >>
Link please. >>
Love to see that one myself.....especially with raw sets going for more. If it was such a great deal, why didn't you jump on it? Would have given you a FULL perfect set to tuck away for the kids.
edited to add...unless it was graded by SGS
<< <i>
<< <i>
Response by number:
1). Im 22 and know a ton of people my age who collect coins. If nothing else, gold and modern "bullion"...which to a lot of people the 25th sets fall into.
2). Are you talking about 70 sets or single coins? Because 2006 70 sets are going for wayyy more than 500 and either way, their value has consistently gone up since they hit their "bottom".
3). The ASEs are and have been different than most modern coins. I am currently selling a huge part of my dad's modern collection. All his ASEs he at least tripled/quadrupled or more what he spent. Yes, has to do with cost of silver, but ASEs have a different collector's base than most modern coins, and the "investment" in silver makes people interested in these, who otherwise might not be.
Obviously anything is speculation, but it's simple enough to look at the history behind these. Seems like most people just ignore that...to each his own. Personally, I wish I was independently wealthy, I'd buy as many 70 sets as I could right now and wait 6 months or a year or 2. >>
Most of my age are interested in stock market and not coins (I'm 27). As for the sets, I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid, and another ending around $478.00. Just speculation, personally I'm keeping my almost full 70 set in the vault for my kids and my full set of 69s for sale later on to buy the next ASE. I guess the thing I'm missing is I wonder if there really are 100,000 + collectors out there that go after the ASE. I think it might be less than 100k collectors for ASE based on the article I read about a show in Michigan where the collectors were trying to get rid of their sets or trying to buy the full opened set for $400.00.
<< <i>Have any you want to dump? I'll pick em up on the cheap >>
No way lol. Keeping my 2011 25th ASE set for life! =D >>
You used morgan dollars as an example earlier as something that is very popular...well, there are a lot more than 100k morgans out there.
As for the age thing...doesn't really matter. There are a lot of collector's out there, who really cares what their age is and if younger people are in stocks? I play in the stock market, coins, a lot more...so you can't just pinpoint coins, or stocks, or anything to one age group.
And if you saw a 70 set going for 600 Im pretty sure you dreamt it...but if not, like others have said, please show a link. Seems to be some confusion there...
<< <i>
Response by number:
1). Im 22 and know a ton of people my age who collect coins. If nothing else, gold and modern "bullion"...which to a lot of people the 25th sets fall into.
2). Are you talking about 70 sets or single coins? Because 2006 70 sets are going for wayyy more than 500 and either way, their value has consistently gone up since they hit their "bottom".
3). The ASEs are and have been different than most modern coins. I am currently selling a huge part of my dad's modern collection. All his ASEs he at least tripled/quadrupled or more what he spent. Yes, has to do with cost of silver, but ASEs have a different collector's base than most modern coins, and the "investment" in silver makes people interested in these, who otherwise might not be.
Obviously anything is speculation, but it's simple enough to look at the history behind these. Seems like most people just ignore that...to each his own. Personally, I wish I was independently wealthy, I'd buy as many 70 sets as I could right now and wait 6 months or a year or 2. >>
I'm usually one of the young guys at coin shows, but you've got me beat by more than 10 years that's for sure. Your point is well taken though as I'm another collector who started collecting/hoarding ASE's in the last five years. I view these the same way you do and I'm very thankful that I knew about these well before they came out. If you haven't purchased Eric Jordan's awesome book on modern commen's you should immediately buy it and read it cover to cover. That book will change your perspective on stacking and enable you to put away tomorrow's keys for melt price today if you're savvy enough
<< <i>If the initial Mercanti labels are a "limited edition" and IF a revision is due, won't this affect the Mercanti market? >>
Label varieties,
I wonder if ones with a CAC sticker will be more desireable....??
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I saw a full 70 set going for $600.00 buy it now and nobody bit the bid >>
Link please. >>
Love to see that one myself.....especially with raw sets going for more. If it was such a great deal, why didn't you jump on it? Would have given you a FULL perfect set to tuck away for the kids.
edited to add...unless it was graded by SGS >>
It doean't exist unless it was mistitled. I searched back through the eBay sales for two weeks and nothing even close. Closest one that shows it didn't sell was a 69 set that was pulled but the seller. Blowing smoke!
"If it was such a great deal, why didn't you jump on it?"
I was thinking the same thing. Makes the smoke even more thicker!
<< <i>If the initial Mercanti labels are a "limited edition" and IF a revision is due, won't this affect the Mercanti market? >>
Label varieties,
Man, there are too many labels now and throw in the non-set 25th Anniversary labels, Holy labels Batman.
Can't prove it now though = I didn't think the 2006 was worth as much from what I was seeing:
Currently on eBay
full set nongraded $382.50 buy it now
2006 70 ultra $189.00 buy it now
2006 P70DCAM $269.00 buy it now
2006 MS70 $154.00 buy it now
The 3 70s would then be $612.00 if you buy those 3 separately...or am I looking at the wrong 2006 ASE sets?
<< <i>I found this forum searching for information on the 25th Anniversary ASE sets, and decided to join to offer my opinions on a couple issues.
"Set" designation:
From what I can gather, there are only two ways to know for a fact that all five coins are from a Mint assembled/delivered Set - either leave it in the sealed Mint packaging, or submit sealed for PCGS "Set" designation. It truly troubles me the the other TPGs allow opened sets to get the "Set" designation, and I believe it will cause much confusion and trouble down the road. It is possible to have many, many, more "Sets" than the Mint actually produced. Send an open set to NGC, or one of the other grading services that allows open boxes for "set" designation, and get the set slabbed as a 25th Ann "Set". Sell the three slabbed non-key "Set" coins, crack out the two keys, add three non-keys from the Millions previously produced, put them all back in the OGP, and resubmit. Repeat and many times as you wish? We may end up with substantially more non-key "Set" coins than were actually produced. And, I sure hope PCGS recognizes this, and refuses to label the non-key coins as "Set" coins, just because it is on one of the other TPG's labels, as these do not have the traceable "pedigree" that PCGS requires and maintains.
Value of the Set:
I do think we can look at the 20th Ann ASE set to give us an idea of future value. Right now these are 3X issue price minimum, and had 2.5 times the mintage. Assuming similar rise in Silver bullion price, and "equivalent" economy, I think we're looking at $300 X 3 X 2.5 = $2250 for a set. The PCGS set designation should command a premium over both "open" sets, and other TPG coin "sets", for the reasons stated above (no foolproof pedigree). In addition, the three non-keys with "Set" designation should command a premium over their non-set counterparts, but only if in PCGS slabs, because ALL other TPG "set" designations are questionable on the three non-keys.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide my opinions, and that's all that this is - my opinions.
Bill >>
Sorry but you must be corrected on the set designation issue. The only company out there that will give you a "set" designation wether it is sealed or not is ANACS. Both PCGS and NGC require sealed boxes to give all 5 coins the "set"designation
<< <i>I found this forum searching for information on the 25th Anniversary ASE sets, and decided to join to offer my opinions on a couple issues.
"Set" designation:
From what I can gather, there are only two ways to know for a fact that all five coins are from a Mint assembled/delivered Set - either leave it in the sealed Mint packaging, or submit sealed for PCGS "Set" designation. It truly troubles me the the other TPGs allow opened sets to get the "Set" designation, and I believe it will cause much confusion and trouble down the road. It is possible to have many, many, more "Sets" than the Mint actually produced. Send an open set to ANACS, or one of the other grading services that allows open boxes for "set" designation, and get the set slabbed as a 25th Ann "Set". Sell the three slabbed non-key "Set" coins, crack out the two keys, add three non-keys from the Millions previously produced, put them all back in the OGP, and resubmit. Repeat and many times as you wish? We may end up with substantially more non-key "Set" coins than were actually produced. And, I sure hope PCGS recognizes this, and refuses to label the non-key coins as "Set" coins, just because it is on one of the other TPG's labels, as these do not have the traceable "pedigree" that PCGS requires and maintains.
Value of the Set:
I do think we can look at the 20th Ann ASE set to give us an idea of future value. Right now these are 3X issue price minimum, and had 2.5 times the mintage. Assuming similar rise in Silver bullion price, and "equivalent" economy, I think we're looking at $300 X 3 X 2.5 = $2250 for a set. The PCGS set designation should command a premium over both "open" sets, and other TPG coin "sets", for the reasons stated above (no foolproof pedigree). In addition, the three non-keys with "Set" designation should command a premium over their non-set counterparts, provided proper pedigree.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide my opinions, and that's all that this is - my opinions.
(Edited to add) Some information above is not correct, thank you to rodzm for correcting. Evidently, only ANACS will allow "set" designation on open boxes, which may contribute to issues noted above.
Bill >>
You forget one other important issue, the 100,000 sets are limited by the "S" coin and the RP coin so there can be no more than 100,000 sets no matter what ANACS does or doesn't do.
<< <i>He is saying a 2006 20th anniversary 70 set went for $600, NOT a 25th anniversary 70 set. >>
<< <i>I saw the set on eBay I believe like 2 or 3 days ago but it was ending with 0 bids with buy it now at $600.00. Not sure how many days it was put up for but I tried looking for it to see if I saved it in case I wanted to buy it later but I was cleaning up yesterday and deleted the ones that ended =
Can't prove it now though = I didn't think the 2006 was worth as much from what I was seeing:
Currently on eBay
full set nongraded $382.50 buy it now
2006 70 ultra $189.00 buy it now
2006 P70DCAM $269.00 buy it now
2006 MS70 $154.00 buy it now
The 3 70s would then be $612.00 if you buy those 3 separately...or am I looking at the wrong 2006 ASE sets? >>
I'm not sure what you are looking at, but I'd guess it is this:
Link
That is a 70 set but not PCGS...hence the lowball #. Other than that, I wonder if the coins you've listed are plain Bullion and not coins with the 20th pedigree and or certainly not 70's graded by PCGS.
<< <i>I saw the set on eBay I believe like 2 or 3 days ago but it was ending with 0 bids with buy it now at $600.00. Not sure how many days it was put up for but I tried looking for it to see if I saved it in case I wanted to buy it later but I was cleaning up yesterday and deleted the ones that ended =
Can't prove it now though = I didn't think the 2006 was worth as much from what I was seeing:
Currently on eBay
full set nongraded $382.50 buy it now
2006 70 ultra $189.00 buy it now
2006 P70DCAM $269.00 buy it now
2006 MS70 $154.00 buy it now
The 3 70s would then be $612.00 if you buy those 3 separately...or am I looking at the wrong 2006 ASE sets? >>
This is where it helps to know the grading companies, differences in value perceived to each, and what the gist of most of the conversations that you are getting into the middle of are about....
For grading, you are on a PCGS board and you are linking to, and comparing, ICG graded coins. Not apples to apples
For differences in value, PCGS graded moderns, such as the SAEs, particularly in the ultimate grade of 70, far outshine competitors. ICG doesn't even really come into play for knowledgeable collectors in these items. They are fine, maybe, if someone just wants to "protect" the coin, but not for "investment" or "flipping/selling". They are actually akin to raw (so the $600+ is actually amazing...if it can be gotten).
The gist of the conversations in this thread....well, again, you are on a PCGS board. They will largely gravitate towards PCGS graded coins and values. NGC graded coins and values also come up and you still need to be aware of what people are talking about and the different values (and possibly grading and labeling that each has) associated.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I like the tombstone label. And FWIW, all 3 of those coins in that ICG auction were spotted: Link
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
I have been watching the post on all the various boards and one of the favorite topics of discussion is the falling prices of the 25th anniversary set. Flippers are concerned because their short term margins are falling and being that I am concerned about non collectors making a killing (NOT) I started looking through the data for real guidance. One of the things I do to get a better picture of what is going on is to take past behavior and tend it out a couple years or so to give me insight into what the collector looking through the US Coin Digest or Red book will see in time. Below is a non final final listing of the mint state silver eagle series with the current sales trends tacked on out to the end of 2014.
What do you see? I see a MASSIVE population of modern silver dollars about to blow past the Morgans surviving total population. I see multimillion mintage common dates right next to coins whose mintages look like rounding errors on the common dates. I see two coins that are holes in the chart. Thats the 2008W with the 07 reverse and and the 2011S. The 2008W is a serious coin buts its easy to say I dont collect die varieties and pass over it in the minds of some collectors but its tough to pass by the 2011s with such logic. Mint marks have a long history of being drastically stronger form of product differentiation than die varies are. There is a very rough formula for pricing a strong series king as long as you don,t have too many so called key dates with similar mintages.
Its PK=Ps(k)(ms/mk)^(a little less than 2)
Pk= price of key
Ps= price of second key in this case the 2006 w at $65
Ms= mintage of second key in this case 466,000
Mk= mintage of key in this case about 100,000
K= a constant that moves around in this case say about .8
the power term is 1.5 to 2 in this case say 1.8
SO PK= 65x.8x(466000/100000)^1.8= about a grand at the time of series maturity. Now don't put too much faith in this number because it very rough. This year the new second place coin could be the 2011w with a 300,000 mintage and the formula will then give you a mature key price closer to $750 for a run of the mill MS69. But the point is this this coin is incredibly strong in a series whose population looks like it has no end. Obviously this is just one coin in the 25th anniversary set but I think the 2011s will bring more than the raw 5 coin sets are now all by itself over time. And not too much time at that.
If you were not able to order one of the 25th silver sets at $299 from the Mint and you would like one then dont get real worried about spending say $600-$800 on one. Just shop around and find one that looks good. Try to see it in person if you can. Be a little quality conscious. Be patient and dont let this "falling knife" mentality effect you. The knife is already bouncing on the floor.
Mint State Silver Eagles
Year $1
1986..... 5,393,005
1987..... 11,442,335
1988..... 5,004,646
1989..... 5,203,327
1990..... 5,840,110
1991..... 7,191,066
1992..... 5,540,068
1993..... 6,763,762
1994..... 4,227,319
1995..... 4,672,051
1996..... 3,603,386
1997..... 4,295,004
1998..... 4,847,547
1999..... 7,408,640
2000..... 9,239,132
2001..... 9,001,711
2002..... 10,539,026
2003..... 8,495,008
2004..... 8,882,754
2005..... 8,891,025
2006..... 10,676,522
2006W.. 466,573
2007..... 9,028,036
2007W.. 690,891
2008..... 20,583,000
2008W.. 535,000
2008W07.. 47,000*
2009..... 30,459,000
2010..... 34,764,500
2011..... 40,000,000*
2011W... 400,000*
2011S... 99,997*
2012..... 30,000,000*
2012W.. 300,000*
2013..... 30,000,000*
2013W.. 400,000*
2014..... 30,000,000*
2014W.. 400,000*
Estimated Total by 2015....... 375,330,759
PS: The 2011 reverse proof is great too but I am out of time.
we have to be scraping the bottom.
<< <i>sellers of PCGS 70 FS sets at sub 1300, what are you thinking? feels like the 2009 UHR fire sale of MS70FS coins at 1700 - just as stupid a move. we have to be scraping the bottom. >>
Especially when you look at the prices that some of the singles are bringing. I can understand strong prices for the Rev Proof and S mint coins (some recent S mint prices don't make sense), but the regular proof has been bringing $300 in an FS70 Flag holder. One could almost rationalize buying 70 sets , breaking them up to sell the keys (and maybe the PR) individually and end up keeping the non-keys for free after all expenses.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>Who here thinks that a trade of a sealed box of 1 for PCGS MS69 Flag set would be a good thing to do. >>
Seems like an even trade. If you plan to keep them, I'd do it. If you are going to sell in the next 1-2 years, I'd keep the sealed box.
<< <i>Who here thinks that a trade of a sealed box of 1 for PCGS MS69 Flag set would be a good thing to do. >>
Prices are same.
I am a gambler and would send it in.
Roll the dice for a 70 ! ! !
Joe
Time will tell.
<< <i>Having second thoughts about listing these mixed sets on eBay vs splitting the up and selling them as singles.
Time will tell. >>
Ya I think the mixed sets are a crap shoot. But heck you might roll a 7 or 11?
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Correction: There is a date in the right hand corner which matches the tracking shipping date .
<< <i>Mint Packing Slip, does not show a date. It does indicate the Carrier: Next Day Air, along with the Tracking #. >>
I am looking at one (not for the 25th Anniversary Set) that was shipped on 12/8/2011 and I received on 12/9/2011. At the top right corner, it say:
Carton Pack List
Box No. 1 12/08/11
Page 1 of 1
<< <i>Seems like a nice arbitrage situation. NGC 70 sets are going for $1200 and 69's around $800. You can buy a sealed box of 5 sets for around $3300. NGC is grading about 70% 70's, so if you assume 3 70 sets and 2 69 sets you are looking at a gross of $5200 minus $500 in grading fees and shipping which leaves you with $4700. Then take 10% in ebay fees and you are left with about $4300 or a $1000 profit, not bad. >>
There are a lot of assumptions in there. I would say that at this point, if you're buying sets to be graded and flipped and not a dealer with a way to distribute these, you need to be willing to hold them till the market firms...as much as a year. If the expectation is to make a quick buck, IMHO you're just as likely to breakeven/lose money as you are to make it as the market declines.
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
<< <i>Yes, at some point they might make an arbitrary decision to cut back on 70's and your formula might be in jeopardy...might be a lot of work for a break even. I do agree for a long hold it should be a deal. >>
Why would they just decide to "cut back"? Seems very unfair and likely to p$ss a bunch of paying customers off. That's not good business at all.
I had 5 sent to a P.O. Box. I guess you can go to your account order page and print out the shipping information. It will have the date shipped and delivered on the USPS web site. But it may disappear later on. Best to make a copy of it if you send these to PCGS.
Box of 20
<< <i>Mint Packing Slip, does not show a date. It does indicate the Carrier: Next Day Air, along with the Tracking #. >>
The box of 1 that I opened was dated 11/30/11 in the upper right corner of the packing slip.
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>My point is that NGC's ratio of 70's is as high as I've seen them do and the market is showing this by discounting NGC sets, maybe someone there will say wait a minute...let's look a little more closely at this next batch and...wham!!! Not saying it will happen, just that it might. >>
Well I suppose that it is possible but would be very bad for business and I'm sure they realize that. Consistency is paramount in grading otherwise you steal from one collector and give to another. NGC coins are generally discounted against PCGS coins across the board, nothing new there. I would think they would keep doing what they are doing due to the fact that they have graded about 3X the coins in this set that PCGS has. Apparently a lot of their customers are happy with the way they grade. I'd personally be surprised if they changed anything.
<< <i>
<< <i>My point is that NGC's ratio of 70's is as high as I've seen them do and the market is showing this by discounting NGC sets, maybe someone there will say wait a minute...let's look a little more closely at this next batch and...wham!!! Not saying it will happen, just that it might. >>
Well I suppose that it is possible but would be very bad for business and I'm sure they realize that. Consistency is paramount in grading otherwise you steal from one collector and give to another. NGC coins are generally discounted against PCGS coins across the board, nothing new there. I would think they would keep doing what they are doing due to the fact that they have graded about 3X the coins in this set that PCGS has. Apparently a lot of their customers are happy with the way they grade. I'd personally be surprised if they changed anything. >>
I would let CAC be the judge between the two.
-Paul
<< <i>Anyone see this set? Sold for $3500!? Apparently it was a "private" listing....you guys think it's real?
-Paul >>
I wish that I knew personally some of these buyers because I could open up my own coin shop just for them!