WHATEVER... yes, I did read the thread, no I did not find the info when I went to the sites...found grading prices but not first strike prices at the NGC site, yes, I read several times in the thread that with NGC you did not need to send sealed as long as before deadline and I could still get first strike and label-- see site yourself as I already have checked that info hence the comment about the W coin...I already knew with the other you could not. AGAIN I was never rude just putting out feelers for opinions until you decided to be a massive a$$ but that seems to be your MO, so again WHATEVER.
I never disputed the advice and I thought it was good advice I just felt that the person was not recognizing the decision I was weighing but I did value the advice just nto the rudeness after it.
The grading companies brought this about with the 25th anniversary label mania. Now we need a guide book to describe all the special labels for this year.
oh and please do not even slam the flippers because I do believe Boichman still has several boxes that they are holding on to and what about the rest of you who despise the flippers? are you honestly planning on holding forever? Taking them to the grave with you? No more that likely MOST of you will be selling them at some point which means YOU ARE ALSO A FLIPPER just one who takes a little while longer...GIVE ME A BREAK!
Man that is a real shame about that ebay sale. How could that many have not looked at what they were bidding on? I feel bad for the buyer even though they clearly didn't look closely but still sad.
Teri, I think you need to let it go. If you stand in the mud too long, you will sink until you are over your head.
All dealers and alot of collectors (such as me) are flipper at times just to better our collections. But, keep in mind, these dealers and collectors (not usually me ) bring a wealth of other information to these boards, not just slam, bam, thank ya mam.
I recognize and appreciate the wealth of info and I certainly understand they do not need to do so. While I appreciate their time and knowledge very much, I see no value in rude and caustic remarks. Enough said...I will cease and desist...thanks!
<< <i>Teri, I think you need to let it go. If you stand in the mud too long, you will sink until you are over your head.
All dealers and alot of collectors (such as me) are flipper at times just to better our collections. But, keep in mind, these dealers and collectors (not usually me ) bring a wealth of other information to these boards, not just slam, bam, thank ya mam. >>
Exactly and besides Bochi's remarks are quite tame compared to many other posts you will find on the board.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>how is an accurate description, being a crook? sure, the misleading title draws you in, just like WE BUY GOLD. if there are 5-6 bidders are willing to throw money at a listing w/o reading the entire description, they deserve a thinner wallet. it is a 'set', of labels. buy the coin, not the label! >>
Clearly the auction is meant to deceive, however the people bidding have essentially NO knowledge of modern coins. The guy even says in the description that it's a "random" group of coins. Although I personally don't think it's right to try and fish for suckers/idiots like this, it's hard to feel sorry for the high bidder when the guy made it very clear what was in your random lot of coins. Hopefully this doesn't become common-place on eBay .
<< <i>how is an accurate description, being a crook? sure, the misleading title draws you in, just like WE BUY GOLD. if there are 5-6 bidders are willing to throw money at a listing w/o reading the entire description, they deserve a thinner wallet. it is a 'set', of labels. buy the coin, not the label! >>
Clearly the auction is meant to deceive, however the people bidding have essentially NO knowledge of modern coins. The guy even says in the description that it's a "random" group of coins. Although I personally don't think it's right to try and fish for suckers/idiots like this, it's hard to feel sorry for the high bidder when the guy made it very clear what was in your random lot of coins. Hopefully this doesn't become common-place on eBay . >>
What caught my eye was the low price for a set of 70's. I have bought a few PCGS sets and don't plan on buying any NGC but the low price had the bells going off. It took me a bit to figure it out. Then when I did it made me sick to my stomach.
Currently working with nurmaler. Older transactions....circa 2011 BST transactions Gecko109, Segoja, lpinion, Agblox, oldgumballmachineswanted,pragmaticgoat, CharlieC, onlyroosies, timrutnat, ShinyThingsInPM under login lightcycler
Its hard to believe that 20 people bid on this "set" or maybe we should say setup.... His use of the word "set" makes it a misleading listing. I'd protest loudly.
Its hard to believe that 20 people bid on this "set" or maybe we should say setup.... His use of the word "set" makes it a misleading listing. I'd protest loudly.
KP >>
Yes, he has a play on words there. It is a set of coins but not the Anniversary set. His 100% may not remain if he doesn't accept the "set" being returned. Then again, the person who bought it may not even notice. Into the SDB it goes!
<< <i> The United States Mint plans to produce up to 100,000 American Eagle 25th Anniversary Silver Coin Sets >>
Notta. Had this been 10-30K, sure. These mintages mean Coin Vault special! Sure wish they would have made some lower mintage gold and silver set. oh well I guess... --aap >>
From the first page. I wonder what AuAgPt is saying today?
The grading companies brought this about with the 25th anniversary label mania. Now we need a guide book to describe all the special labels for this year. >>
Your right ..you NEED to be educated...seller leaves out Two primary coins...Reverse Proof and "S" minted SAE....you gotta read the print....he does describe the coins ..but you gotta be aware..!!
<< <i>NJCoin.. The terminolgy to which "First Strike" is used today by the TPGs are the time they get your coins from you after the mint delivers them within the 30 day window..It has nothing to do with the official ANA designation of the first few coins from the dies..The terminolgy has been skewed. The TPGs in my opinion mislead somewhat to a point for encapsulation with that term ..First Strike" They do indeed provide a valuable service to genuinly inspect a coin as to a common agreed upon grade and authenticity..BUT these extra labels are ..like I said .. are a diservice.. Larry >>
Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
<< <i>Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark >>
In a logical world, you are absolutely correct regarding the craziness of spending an extra $450 for the FS label. But we don't live (and sell) in a logical world. In my opinion, if you plan on reselling them in the next 10 years you will reap a better harvest with the FS label. As time passes by, though, I believe the premium for FS will go the way of 8-track tapes and Beta-Max...
NJCoin.... mbogoman.. explains it in a most intriguing manner.Most are logical collectors and can judge or grade a coin as to which one will suite his/her needs or pocketbook.The idea of this new collector to collect labels with their coins may or may not stand up to time.I cannot tell.Perhaps the Green beans will prevail.....If you are not familiar with the Green bean label..CAC ...it is another sticker label added to already encapsulted coin.... Larry
<< <i>Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark >>
In a logical world, you are absolutely correct regarding the craziness of spending an extra $450 for the FS label. But we don't live (and sell) in a logical world. In my opinion, if you plan on reselling them in the next 10 years you will reap a better harvest with the FS label. As time passes by, though, I believe the premium for FS will go the way of 8-track tapes and Beta-Max... >>
Thank you for the input. This is exactly what I was looking for! When you say "better harvest" I assume you mean First Strike sets in either 69 or 70 should sell for at least $90 more than non-First Strike 25th Anniversay sets. Otherwise, even if they sell for more, it would make sense to not spend the extra money.
And bear in mind, I am not even questioning the general wisdom or value of the FS label; I am questioning it in the specific instance of this set, where, by PCGS' own definition, every set submitted unopened that was shipped by the Mint by today is eligible, which possibly means every set struck, depending on whether or not the mint is done shipping. In this case, will these labels carry a premium, today, let alone in 10 years, either because people like the way the flags look, because they need the label to conform to the other labels in their collections, or because they mistakenly believe that PCGS graded 25the Anniversary First Strike ASEs are in any way different (other than the label) than non First Strike labelled coins?
For what it's worth, I understand the Mercanti labels are special because they have original signatures and a letter, if people are into that, so I'm not asking whether those might carry a premium going forward, although I understand that is in doubt. It's just that I was under the impression that "First Strike" carried a premium because only a subset of a given issue (those submitted within 30 days of issue) were eligible, whereas that is not the case with these sets since potentially all 100,000 are eligible.
Some of my BIN prices on ebay are even slightly less than that (although my last sale was exactly at that price on ebay 5 minutes ago)! You have to go with the flow.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark >>
In a logical world, you are absolutely correct regarding the craziness of spending an extra $450 for the FS label. But we don't live (and sell) in a logical world. In my opinion, if you plan on reselling them in the next 10 years you will reap a better harvest with the FS label. As time passes by, though, I believe the premium for FS will go the way of 8-track tapes and Beta-Max... >>
Thank you for the input. This is exactly what I was looking for! When you say "better harvest" I assume you mean First Strike sets in either 69 or 70 should sell for at least $90 more than non-First Strike 25th Anniversay sets. Otherwise, even if they sell for more, it would make sense to not spend the extra money.
And bear in mind, I am not even questioning the general wisdom or value of the FS label; I am questioning it in the specific instance of this set, where, by PCGS' own definition, every set submitted unopened that was shipped by the Mint by today is eligible, which possibly means every set struck, depending on whether or not the mint is done shipping. In this case, will these labels carry a premium, today, let alone in 10 years, either because people like the way the flags look, because they need the label to conform to the other labels in their collections, or because they mistakenly believe that PCGS graded 25the Anniversary First Strike ASEs are in any way different (other than the label) than non First Strike labelled coins?
For what it's worth, I understand the Mercanti labels are special because they have original signatures and a letter, if people are into that, so I'm not asking whether those might carry a premium going forward, although I understand that is in doubt. It's just that I was under the impression that "First Strike" carried a premium because only a subset of a given issue (those submitted within 30 days of issue) were eligible, whereas that is not the case with these sets since potentially all 100,000 are eligible. >>
I was falsely under the impression that First Strike was given a premium because it meant the coin had never been previously slabbed (that is, a FS coin cannot be a marginal coin that got upgraded after a regrade). However, my false understanding has been corrected when someone here showed a First Strike that had been regraded and yet inherited its First Strike designation. It's possible that the marketplace may also have that same misunderstanding. Otherwise, I have no idea why First Strike carries a premium. Maybe it maintains its premium because everyone thinks everyone else attaches a premium to it.
<< <i>It would be interesting to hear of any sets shipped tomorrow or thereafter. Anyone list on the waiting list? >>
Sadly, yes, there are still some to ship. I had a F&F that had a debit card with a limit. It took several days to straighten it out and it just went back "in process" and the mint got the money yesterday...however, though I was hoping...it did not ship today.
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
Didn't some of your actually go for less than that on eBay? >>
It's a battle of who can go lower in price during the flood marketing. LOL
Big pockets / smaller margins force the small timers to a sell or hold, sooner or later these sets have to bounce up, once the glut clears, prices will go up.
Actually, if you go to the MCM homepage the current posted price is $1749 for Mercanti signed sets, the link you have provided is for the "black stripe" PCGS set. ($1699)
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Actually, if you go to the MCM homepage the current posted price is $1749 for Mercanti signed sets, the link you have provided is for the "black stipe" PCGS set. ($1699)
John >>
Oh yeah!??? Well who are you to tell us what MCM's prices are!????
<< <i> I was falsely under the impression that First Strike was given a premium because it meant the coin had never been previously slabbed (that is, a FS coin cannot be a marginal coin that got upgraded after a regrade). However, my false understanding has been corrected when someone here showed a First Strike that had been regraded and yet inherited its First Strike designation. It's possible that the marketplace may also have that same misunderstanding. Otherwise, I have no idea why First Strike carries a premium. Maybe it maintains its premium because everyone thinks everyone else attaches a premium to it. >>
This is undoubtedly true, but the rationale is surely that "First Strike" represents a subset of the total due to the limited time it is normally available. Plus, I'm sure the theory is that the first coins struck are of a higher quality than the rest. The rub with these sets is that they were all struck at the same time, and mostly all shipped within the first 30 days. Consequently, they are all eligible for the designation. When an entire population is "special," by definition none of it is.
Hence, the question -- will "First Strike" really carry at least an $18/coin premium in this case. My problem in trying to find an answer to this question is that so few coins are being slabbed without the designation, that I may never get a real answer unless I am brave enough to go without it myself and then see what happens when I try to sell. I was hoping someone knowledgeable would steer me in the right direction and help me avoid a potentially expensive mistake. I am well aware that the path of least resistance is to simply go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing and pay the $450 and hope for the best. It's just that I'm too cheap to throw away $450 if it is unnecessary, at least without it bothering me.
As it is, I was tempted to go the Mercanti route, but dropping $1250 to grade 25 coins seemed a little high, so I held off. That appears to have been a good move, since, based on the current price difference between them and NGC graded sets, it does not look like they will maintain a $100/set premium over regular PCGS First Strikes. (If they do maintain such a premium, then PCGS 70 sets will be priced less than $200 more than NGC 70s, which seems very unlikely. Moreover, if that turns out to be the case, then NGC will have been the way to go, since one could have had an "Early Release" designation for no extra charge and they are more generous with the 70s than PCGS. Again, this seems very unlikely since it makes no sense that the less expensive grading with the higher percentage of top grades would not require a substantial discount to the more expensive grading with the lower percentage of top grades.)
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin >>
I think your right. There are a lot of people who don't see the true value behind this. The price we are seeing right now is because a lot of people are trying to take profit. Right now we have the highest number of listings on ebay. But as everyone knows, there are only 100,000 available so we won't see these prices lasting. I won't be surprised to see a them selling at a high premium by mid-2012.
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
<< The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). >>
The grading companies brought this about with the 25th anniversary label mania. Now we need a guide book to describe all the special labels for this year. >>
Your right ..you NEED to be educated...seller leaves out Two primary coins...Reverse Proof and "S" minted SAE....you gotta read the print....he does describe the coins ..but you gotta be aware..!! >>
his description lists each coin up for auction. youd have to be crazy not to read it. buyers fault for not looking through it
"I'm dropping my standards so that I can buy more"
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin >>
Yep, and as I stated of the graded coins (the two keys) earlier, I think they will be the winners. At the above price levels, "back the truck up". If you collect silver eagles, you need 'em.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Comments
WHATEVER... yes, I did read the thread, no I did not find the info when I went to the sites...found grading prices but not first strike prices at the NGC site, yes, I read several times in the thread that with NGC you did not need to send sealed as long as before deadline and I could still get first strike and label-- see site yourself as I already have checked that info hence the comment about the W coin...I already knew with the other you could not. AGAIN I was never rude just putting out feelers for opinions until you decided to be a massive a$$ but that seems to be your MO, so again WHATEVER.
I never disputed the advice and I thought it was good advice I just felt that the person was not recognizing the decision I was weighing but I did value the advice just nto the rudeness after it.
<< <i>This guy just pulled a fast one on Ebay. Its not a set. Take a look. Somebody paid $1000 for this. OMG there are some real crooks out there
Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
The grading companies brought this about with the 25th anniversary label mania. Now we need a guide book to describe all the special labels for this year.
These are dang handsome sets, at $299. I got me this set of keepers (after sending to the host for grading, consecutive 69's.)
Not For Sale.
and yeah, i flipped a few, and these are free.
<<Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
And who were the 19 other bidders?!?!?!?
I feel bad for the buyer even though they clearly didn't look closely but still sad.
<< <i>I'm selling (flipping?) popcorn in this corner of the forum! If you don't like it you can just throw it back. >>
By the bag or by the bucket? Is it extra for butter?
All dealers and alot of collectors (such as me) are flipper at times just to better our collections. But, keep in mind, these dealers and collectors (not usually me
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm selling (flipping?) popcorn in this corner of the forum! If you don't like it you can just throw it back. >>
By the bag or by the bucket? Is it extra for butter? >>
Check the PCGS site under "services"!
I recognize and appreciate the wealth of info and I certainly understand they do not need to do so. While I appreciate their time and knowledge very much, I see no value
in rude and caustic remarks. Enough said...I will cease and desist...thanks!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm selling (flipping?) popcorn in this corner of the forum! If you don't like it you can just throw it back. >>
By the bag or by the bucket? Is it extra for butter? >>
Check the PCGS site under "services"! >>
Is it too later for the "First Popped" popcorn?
<< <i>Teri, I think you need to let it go. If you stand in the mud too long, you will sink until you are over your head.
All dealers and alot of collectors (such as me) are flipper at times just to better our collections. But, keep in mind, these dealers and collectors (not usually me
Exactly and besides Bochi's remarks are quite tame compared to many other posts you will find on the board.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm selling (flipping?) popcorn in this corner of the forum! If you don't like it you can just throw it back. >>
By the bag or by the bucket? Is it extra for butter? >>
Check the PCGS site under "services"! >>
Is it too later for the "First Popped" popcorn?
It is never to late and I am prepared to affer you 5X your asking price if my bag has a first popped sticker on it.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>
<< <i>OMG there are some real crooks out there
Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
>>
how is an accurate description, being a crook?
sure, the misleading title draws you in, just like WE BUY GOLD.
if there are 5-6 bidders are willing to throw money at a listing w/o reading the entire description, they deserve a thinner wallet.
it is a 'set', of labels.
buy the coin, not the label!
No...actually, crooks are just scum...no excuses!
And the phrase "Let the buyer beware" was also likely created by a crook too!
<< <i>how is an accurate description, being a crook?
sure, the misleading title draws you in, just like WE BUY GOLD.
if there are 5-6 bidders are willing to throw money at a listing w/o reading the entire description, they deserve a thinner wallet.
it is a 'set', of labels.
buy the coin, not the label! >>
Clearly the auction is meant to deceive, however the people bidding have essentially NO knowledge of modern coins. The guy even says in the description that it's a "random" group of coins. Although I personally don't think it's right to try and fish for suckers/idiots like this, it's hard to feel sorry for the high bidder when the guy made it very clear what was in your random lot of coins. Hopefully this doesn't become common-place on eBay
<< <i>
<< <i>how is an accurate description, being a crook?
sure, the misleading title draws you in, just like WE BUY GOLD.
if there are 5-6 bidders are willing to throw money at a listing w/o reading the entire description, they deserve a thinner wallet.
it is a 'set', of labels.
buy the coin, not the label! >>
Clearly the auction is meant to deceive, however the people bidding have essentially NO knowledge of modern coins. The guy even says in the description that it's a "random" group of coins. Although I personally don't think it's right to try and fish for suckers/idiots like this, it's hard to feel sorry for the high bidder when the guy made it very clear what was in your random lot of coins. Hopefully this doesn't become common-place on eBay
What caught my eye was the low price for a set of 70's. I have bought a few PCGS sets and don't plan on buying any NGC but the low price had the bells going off. It took me a bit to figure it out. Then when I did it made me sick to my stomach.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I just called PCGS customer service, it's no problem to switch labels, just write a note on the bottom of the submission form.
You will not be charged again for first strike, it's a $10 reholder fee or $30 for 70s. If mixed they must be on separate forms. >>
So, do I understand this correctly. If they are 69's, it will cost $50. But if they are 70's, it wil cost $150? >>
Yes, that's right, plus the $8 handling fee and shipping. >>
Will they do this for a single coin and still give it a 25th anniversary Set label? Or do you have to submit a set for reholdering?
Thanks!
KP
<< <i>This guy just pulled a fast one on Ebay. Its not a set. Take a look. Somebody paid $1000 for this. OMG there are some real crooks out there
Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
Its hard to believe that 20 people bid on this "set" or maybe we should say setup....
His use of the word "set" makes it a misleading listing. I'd protest loudly.
KP
<< <i>
<< <i>This guy just pulled a fast one on Ebay. Its not a set. Take a look. Somebody paid $1000 for this. OMG there are some real crooks out there
Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
Its hard to believe that 20 people bid on this "set" or maybe we should say setup....
His use of the word "set" makes it a misleading listing. I'd protest loudly.
KP >>
Yes, he has a play on words there. It is a set of coins but not the Anniversary set. His 100% may not remain if he doesn't accept the "set" being returned. Then again, the person who bought it may not even notice. Into the SDB it goes!
<< <i>
<< <i> The United States Mint plans to produce up to 100,000 American Eagle 25th Anniversary Silver Coin Sets >>
Notta. Had this been 10-30K, sure. These mintages mean Coin Vault special! Sure wish they would have made some lower mintage gold and silver set. oh well I guess... --aap >>
From the first page. I wonder what AuAgPt is saying today?
<< <i>
<< <i>This guy just pulled a fast one on Ebay. Its not a set. Take a look. Somebody paid $1000 for this. OMG there are some real crooks out there
Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
The grading companies brought this about with the 25th anniversary label mania. Now we need a guide book to describe all the special labels for this year. >>
Your right ..you NEED to be educated...seller leaves out Two primary coins...Reverse Proof and "S" minted SAE....you gotta read the print....he does describe the coins ..but you gotta be aware..!!
<< <i>NJCoin..
The terminolgy to which "First Strike" is used today by the TPGs are the time they get your coins from you after the mint delivers them within the 30 day window..It has nothing to do with the official ANA designation of the first few coins from the dies..The terminolgy has been skewed.
The TPGs in my opinion mislead somewhat to a point for encapsulation with that term ..First Strike"
They do indeed provide a valuable service to genuinly inspect a coin as to a common agreed upon grade and authenticity..BUT these extra labels are ..like I said .. are a diservice..
Larry >>
Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark
<< <i>Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark >>
In a logical world, you are absolutely correct regarding the craziness of spending an extra $450 for the FS label. But we don't live (and sell) in a logical world. In my opinion, if you plan on reselling them in the next 10 years you will reap a better harvest with the FS label. As time passes by, though, I believe the premium for FS will go the way of 8-track tapes and Beta-Max...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
mbogoman.. explains it in a most intriguing manner.Most are logical collectors and can judge or grade a coin as to which one will suite his/her needs or pocketbook.The idea of this new collector to collect labels with their coins may or may not stand up to time.I cannot tell.Perhaps the Green beans will prevail.....If you are not familiar with the Green bean label..CAC ...it is another sticker label added to already encapsulted coin....
Larry
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<< <i>Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark >>
In a logical world, you are absolutely correct regarding the craziness of spending an extra $450 for the FS label. But we don't live (and sell) in a logical world. In my opinion, if you plan on reselling them in the next 10 years you will reap a better harvest with the FS label. As time passes by, though, I believe the premium for FS will go the way of 8-track tapes and Beta-Max... >>
Thank you for the input. This is exactly what I was looking for! When you say "better harvest" I assume you mean First Strike sets in either 69 or 70 should sell for at least $90 more than non-First Strike 25th Anniversay sets. Otherwise, even if they sell for more, it would make sense to not spend the extra money.
And bear in mind, I am not even questioning the general wisdom or value of the FS label; I am questioning it in the specific instance of this set, where, by PCGS' own definition, every set submitted unopened that was shipped by the Mint by today is eligible, which possibly means every set struck, depending on whether or not the mint is done shipping. In this case, will these labels carry a premium, today, let alone in 10 years, either because people like the way the flags look, because they need the label to conform to the other labels in their collections, or because they mistakenly believe that PCGS graded 25the Anniversary First Strike ASEs are in any way different (other than the label) than non First Strike labelled coins?
For what it's worth, I understand the Mercanti labels are special because they have original signatures and a letter, if people are into that, so I'm not asking whether those might carry a premium going forward, although I understand that is in doubt. It's just that I was under the impression that "First Strike" carried a premium because only a subset of a given issue (those submitted within 30 days of issue) were eligible, whereas that is not the case with these sets since potentially all 100,000 are eligible.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Mercanti 70 Sets are down to $1,699 @ MCM. >>
Didn't some of your actually go for less than that on eBay?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Larry -- I think I understand what the "First Strike" purports to be. It's just, as was pointed out in a later post, that PCGS will give that designation to any sealed boxes that were shipped from the mint by the cut-off, regardless of when they are sent to PCGS, which means virtually, if not all, 100,000 sets are eligible under the definition. Under that scenario, is it true that subsequent buyers down the road will pay at least an $18/coin premium for the PCGS label that says "First Strike" over a regular PCGS 25th Anniversary Set label, for any given grade? If so, it would be stupid to refuse to give PCGS the $18/coin when I get the sets graded. If not, it seems crazy to spend the extra $450 for 5 sets. Do you, or anyone else reading this with knowledge on the subject, have an opinion on this?
Thanks in advance!
Mark >>
In a logical world, you are absolutely correct regarding the craziness of spending an extra $450 for the FS label. But we don't live (and sell) in a logical world. In my opinion, if you plan on reselling them in the next 10 years you will reap a better harvest with the FS label. As time passes by, though, I believe the premium for FS will go the way of 8-track tapes and Beta-Max... >>
Thank you for the input. This is exactly what I was looking for! When you say "better harvest" I assume you mean First Strike sets in either 69 or 70 should sell for at least $90 more than non-First Strike 25th Anniversay sets. Otherwise, even if they sell for more, it would make sense to not spend the extra money.
And bear in mind, I am not even questioning the general wisdom or value of the FS label; I am questioning it in the specific instance of this set, where, by PCGS' own definition, every set submitted unopened that was shipped by the Mint by today is eligible, which possibly means every set struck, depending on whether or not the mint is done shipping. In this case, will these labels carry a premium, today, let alone in 10 years, either because people like the way the flags look, because they need the label to conform to the other labels in their collections, or because they mistakenly believe that PCGS graded 25the Anniversary First Strike ASEs are in any way different (other than the label) than non First Strike labelled coins?
For what it's worth, I understand the Mercanti labels are special because they have original signatures and a letter, if people are into that, so I'm not asking whether those might carry a premium going forward, although I understand that is in doubt. It's just that I was under the impression that "First Strike" carried a premium because only a subset of a given issue (those submitted within 30 days of issue) were eligible, whereas that is not the case with these sets since potentially all 100,000 are eligible. >>
I was falsely under the impression that First Strike was given a premium because it meant the coin had never been previously slabbed (that is, a FS coin cannot be a marginal coin that got upgraded after a regrade). However, my false understanding has been corrected when someone here showed a First Strike that had been regraded and yet inherited its First Strike designation. It's possible that the marketplace may also have that same misunderstanding. Otherwise, I have no idea why First Strike carries a premium. Maybe it maintains its premium because everyone thinks everyone else attaches a premium to it.
<< <i>It would be interesting to hear of any sets shipped tomorrow or thereafter. Anyone list on the waiting list? >>
Sadly, yes, there are still some to ship. I had a F&F that had a debit card with a limit. It took several days to straighten it out and it just went back "in process" and the mint got the money yesterday...however, though I was hoping...it did not ship today.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mercanti 70 Sets are down to $1,699 @ MCM. >>
Didn't some of your actually go for less than that on eBay? >>
It's a battle of who can go lower in price during the flood marketing. LOL
Big pockets / smaller margins force the small timers to a sell or hold, sooner or later these sets have to bounce up, once the glut clears, prices will go up.
Prices won't rise ginormously - 15 - 20% uptick IMHO, regardless of label.
<< <i>Mercanti 70 Sets are down to $1,699 @ MCM. >>
Actually, if you go to the MCM homepage the current posted price is $1749 for Mercanti signed sets, the link you have provided is for the "black stripe" PCGS set. ($1699)
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>
<< <i>Mercanti 70 Sets are down to $1,699 @ MCM. >>
Actually, if you go to the MCM homepage the current posted price is $1749 for Mercanti signed sets, the link you have provided is for the "black stipe" PCGS set. ($1699)
John >>
Oh yeah!??? Well who are you to tell us what MCM's prices are!????
-Paul
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I was falsely under the impression that First Strike was given a premium because it meant the coin had never been previously slabbed (that is, a FS coin cannot be a marginal coin that got upgraded after a regrade). However, my false understanding has been corrected when someone here showed a First Strike that had been regraded and yet inherited its First Strike designation. It's possible that the marketplace may also have that same misunderstanding. Otherwise, I have no idea why First Strike carries a premium. Maybe it maintains its premium because everyone thinks everyone else attaches a premium to it. >>
This is undoubtedly true, but the rationale is surely that "First Strike" represents a subset of the total due to the limited time it is normally available. Plus, I'm sure the theory is that the first coins struck are of a higher quality than the rest. The rub with these sets is that they were all struck at the same time, and mostly all shipped within the first 30 days. Consequently, they are all eligible for the designation. When an entire population is "special," by definition none of it is.
Hence, the question -- will "First Strike" really carry at least an $18/coin premium in this case. My problem in trying to find an answer to this question is that so few coins are being slabbed without the designation, that I may never get a real answer unless I am brave enough to go without it myself and then see what happens when I try to sell. I was hoping someone knowledgeable would steer me in the right direction and help me avoid a potentially expensive mistake. I am well aware that the path of least resistance is to simply go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing and pay the $450 and hope for the best. It's just that I'm too cheap to throw away $450 if it is unnecessary, at least without it bothering me.
As it is, I was tempted to go the Mercanti route, but dropping $1250 to grade 25 coins seemed a little high, so I held off. That appears to have been a good move, since, based on the current price difference between them and NGC graded sets, it does not look like they will maintain a $100/set premium over regular PCGS First Strikes. (If they do maintain such a premium, then PCGS 70 sets will be priced less than $200 more than NGC 70s, which seems very unlikely. Moreover, if that turns out to be the case, then NGC will have been the way to go, since one could have had an "Early Release" designation for no extra charge and they are more generous with the 70s than PCGS. Again, this seems very unlikely since it makes no sense that the less expensive grading with the higher percentage of top grades would not require a substantial discount to the more expensive grading with the lower percentage of top grades.)
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Just my 2 cents:
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin >>
I think your right. There are a lot of people who don't see the true value behind this. The price we are seeing right now is because a lot of people are trying to take profit.
Right now we have the highest number of listings on ebay. But as everyone knows, there are only 100,000 available so we won't see these prices lasting.
I won't be surprised to see a them selling at a high premium by mid-2012.
<< <i>Just my 2 cents:
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin >>
Are we talking about raw or graded 69's?
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Wondercoin
Ikes and SBA's?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Wondercoin
<< <i>
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<< <i>This guy just pulled a fast one on Ebay. Its not a set. Take a look. Somebody paid $1000 for this. OMG there are some real crooks out there
Supposed NGC 25th Anniversery Set >>
The grading companies brought this about with the 25th anniversary label mania. Now we need a guide book to describe all the special labels for this year. >>
Your right ..you NEED to be educated...seller leaves out Two primary coins...Reverse Proof and "S" minted SAE....you gotta read the print....he does describe the coins ..but you gotta be aware..!! >>
his description lists each coin up for auction. youd have to be crazy not to read it. buyers fault for not looking through it
<< <i>Just my 2 cents:
The 2011-S mint $1 is the US first Dollar coin with an "S" mintmark on it since the 1935-S Peace Dollar (in an long, ongoing dollar coin series so I am excluding dollar Commems with this comment). This coin has a great future ahead of it in my view.
The 2011-P Reverse Proof Dollar is a 100,000 mintage Silver Eagle Type coin! Need I say more. This coin also has a great future ahead of it in my view.
Let's talk again aeound this same time next year and see if these (2) coins are still around $200-$250/coin.
Wondercoin >>
Yep, and as I stated of the graded coins (the two keys) earlier, I think they will be the winners. At the above price levels, "back the truck up". If you collect silver eagles, you need 'em.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646