<< <i>Here's another test of an AP...because now I have a Surpreme Bug Up My A** over this whole situation:
I just called Dillon Gage and said that I wanted to buy 5 1 oz 2011 gold eagles.
The salesman told me that they haven't come out yet but that he would be happy to call me when they're available.
Then I said that I wanted to buy an ATB set...[long pause]...then he said they weren't for sale yet.
So I said, but you'll be glad to call me when they're available, right?
"Ah...no. I can't do that."
Why not? [click...dialtone]
And that nicely sums up this whole rigged game. >>
You want a laugh? Look at the DG add in the current CW. It talks all about their friendly, top notch customer service. LOL >>
If this is true, and I am NOT saying you have fabricated this in any way, I would suggest you write exactly what you said to CW in a Letter to the Editor, at once and let's see how Fran stirs the pot over it!
<< <i>I'm sure Prudentials phone mail is full of disgrunted nasty messages and their people have been b** at repeatedly. Eventually, they have to say screw this, they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Turns out the regular people are becoming as nasty and gready as the dealers. Demanding they get theirs.
This has turned into an ugly mob seen and even if an AP was going to try to do the right thing, they'll get crushed. I really don't blame them for looking at other ways to get rid of these instead of having to deal with public. >>
No, actually given that they had no effective way to sell the things, they should not have ordered them! This is just so basic. >>
No, actually they had an effective way. >>
One rude guy answering one phone for 3000 of them???
The following statement is posted on their website:
***DUE TO THE EXTREME SHORTAGE OF GOLD & SILVER BULLION PRODUCTS, JHCB IS ONLY OFFERING BULLION PRODUCTS TO ITS ESTABLISHED DEALER NETWORK*** >>
I wrote them a message expressing interest, through their website before MTB and after (just in case MTB fell through). I got a very nasty "don't bother us, watch the website for details" email from them the other day. I should have kept it but it made me so darn mad I that I immediately deleted it rather than have it around to read again.
<<If this is true, and I am NOT saying you have fabricated this in any way, I would suggest you write exactly what you said to CW in a Letter to the Editor, at once and let's see how Fran stirs the pot over it! >>
I already contacted Steve Roach, assistant editor at Coin World, with a full account of the MTB debacle...
He said that they've heard plenty already...ditto for the Mint's Public Affairs & Legal Departments...so I've already done my part for God and country.
Still think MTB isn't selling multiples out the back door? >>
2010 America the Beautiful 5 oz Silver Bullion Coin 5 Pc Set
This is NOT a pre-sale... THE SETS ARE IN HAND
For Sale: The brand new, much anticipated 2010 America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver bullion five-coin set.
Order with Confidence! NYC Coins has done 100+ transactions worth hundreds of thousands of dollars of coins/bullion on ebay over the last 8 years and we have 100% positive feedback.
Note: The sets sold in this listing - 10 Sets - were purchased from MTB in NYC on 1/3/2011 - they were not given with any capsules. They are in plastic protective cases which were carefully wrapped in bubble wrap.
Due to the extremely limited mintage of just 33,000 coins for each of the five designs issued for 2010, the coins are being viewed as collectible rarities rather than bullion products. These coins are three inches in diameter, 5 ounces each of .999 silver, and has edge lettering. It also features the more popular national parks such as the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, and Yellowstone. These are some of the reasons why there is so much interest in these coins. This likely will be the key date of the series.
You will receive a complete set of five coins - one each of the following designs: Hot Springs National Park, Arkansas Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming Yosemite National Park, California Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona Mount Hood National Park, Oregon
We only ship to the 48 contiguous states. No P.O. boxes. Shipping is Free via USPS Priority Mail with insurance. USPS will require signature upon delivery. Buyer can opt for faster / alternative shipping - at buyers expense.
All sales final. Ask all questions before buying.
I guess MTB is just following the Mint's Instructions. Pure BULLS*IT!! >>
perhaps this is one of the people that MTB was afraid was buying with ringers.... and got away with it.
I'll keep a watch and see if they have any more to sell. thanks for letting me know. >>
I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales.
I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time.
<< <i>I'm sure Prudentials phone mail is full of disgrunted nasty messages and their people have been b** at repeatedly. Eventually, they have to say screw this, they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Turns out the regular people are becoming as nasty and gready as the dealers. Demanding they get theirs.
This has turned into an ugly mob seen and even if an AP was going to try to do the right thing, they'll get crushed. I really don't blame them for looking at other ways to get rid of these instead of having to deal with public. >>
No, actually given that they had no effective way to sell the things, they should not have ordered them! This is just so basic. >>
No, actually they had an effective way. >>
Disneyland having only one ticket booth open at opening time is not an effective way to serve the public.
<< <i><<If this is true, and I am NOT saying you have fabricated this in any way, I would suggest you write exactly what you said to CW in a Letter to the Editor, at once and let's see how Fran stirs the pot over it! >>
I already contacted Steve Roach, assistant editor at Coin World, with a full account of the MTB debacle...
He said that they've heard plenty already...ditto for the Mint's Public Affairs & Legal Departments...so I've already done my part for God and country.
But feel free to pile on...the more the merrier! >>
Good on you. Thanks for your efforts on everyone's behalf.
One of my friends who ordered from MTB had a great conversation with them today.
I told him that he may want to call (no conf. email yet) to be sure that they got his order.
He called. They cut him off mid-sentence and told him that "you don't have an account with us." He said but I faxed the forms ...and was cut off again. He told that guy that a sales guy emailed him the form, he filled it out and sent a check. The guy looked, found his fax and said that he was good to go, will ship in 3 weeks. He added "if you hadn't have called me you would have gotten your check back." My friend asked about a conformation email. He said that he didn't need one, that "I'm telling you that you'll get your coins in three weeks." My friend said that the guy was very abrupt. Good lord.
"mark from Florida says Thank you APMEX...Thank you APMEX...Thank you APMEX...my first purchase from you, and wow, look at what I got. I could sell them for close to $3000.00 right now, but I love them too much to part with. Lots of people could have bought them, but they chose to cry about the high prices. Hope they never get them." >>
Anyone happen to know if this assjack is a member here and, if so, what their handle is?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time. >>
Wow, many of us don't even have an email conformation despite that our bank checks were delivered yesterday and you've had multiple emails. Good job.
<<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
hey miles did you get the check out?? Guess it doesn't really matter with that price oh well another fool and his money have parted.....................
<<OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
I am an official RichR Fan! He's calling it exactly as it went down. Moishe & Shlomo all made out very well Monday @ MTB. Coin collectors, not so much.
Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
<< <i>One of my friends who ordered from MTB had a great conversation with them today.
I told him that he may want to call (no conf. email yet) to be sure that they got his order.
He called. They cut him off mid-sentence and told him that "you don't have an account with us." He said but I faxed the forms ...and was cut off again. He told that guy that a sales guy emailed him the form, he filled it out and sent a check. The guy looked, found his fax and said that he was good to go, will ship in 3 weeks. He added "if you hadn't have called me you would have gotten your check back." My friend asked about a conformation email. He said that he didn't need one, that "I'm telling you that you'll get your coins in three weeks." My friend said that the guy was very abrupt. Good lord. >>
I've found that dealing with MTB is like ordering soup from the Soup Nazi. I try to be as short and succinct as possible. If you ask them why you didn't get bread, then they bring out the "no pucks for you".
<< <i><<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
here you are wondering if they aren't in it for the money, and the GC and those there reported people being paid to buy...
then you criticize MTB because they were afraid some people might be in line just for the flip opportunity?
someone who went inside may have told them 1 person showed up asking questions then a bunch of friends came... and they obviously didn't know jack about these coinas until people on the outside tipped them to the flip.
<< <i>I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time. >>
Wow, many of us don't even have an email conformation despite that our bank checks were delivered yesterday and you've had multiple emails. Good job. >>
<< <i><<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
Not disputing or disrespecting you in any way....just providing a "possible" alternative scenario............. similarities about potential ringers may have "finally" made its way to the appropriate MTB leadership and they "ascertained/guessed/observed (perhaps by hidden camera?)/etc. similarities as to specific individuals and that they were communicating by cell phones. That could have raised, IMHO, reasonable enough suspicions to take action (2 plus 2 usually does equal 4, most of the time) particularly as additional individuals showed up. It's not really any different than the authorities calling the ringers out of line in...where was it, Ohio?...and telling them to move along. We're close to talking "profiling" here and that's not a topic for this board. OTOH, if an equal number of albinos suddenly showed up somewhere with cell phone and more albinos showed up, it might be logical to conclude that they were in contact with each other for whatever purposes they may have in mind, whether legal/illegal, ethical/unethical or not. Again, tough call but with a different, less controversial example.
Now, should MTB have then continued selling to the public? Tough call, IMHO. I would have likely shared your anger that day but if it were my call.....and I was in a legal and ethical position where my decision might have significant consequences as to our Mint status in the future under very stringent and new guidelines.....I'd likely have made the same decision(s).
I feel your frustration, pain and anger though and really do understand your position. Just saying is all.....
<< <i><<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
here you are wondering if they aren't in it for the money, and the GC and those there reported people being paid to buy...
then you criticize MTB because they were afraid some people might be in line just for the flip opportunity?
someone who went inside may have told them 1 person showed up asking questions then a bunch of friends came... and they obviously didn't know jack about these coinas until people on the outside tipped them to the flip. >>
You and I should get together and pitch "Law and Order - Numismatic Offense Division" to NBC!
<< <i>I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time. >>
Wow, many of us don't even have an email conformation despite that our bank checks were delivered yesterday and you've had multiple emails. Good job. >>
thanks, but please remember that bank checks are not as immediate as bank wire transfers. I paid the slightly higher price to assure a "trace chain" through the FED, which wire transfers provide.
"At a time when the US Mint halted a bullion program due to excessive premiums charged by primary distributors, increasing their own product prices by large percentages with little justification comes across as brazen and inappropriate."
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
that's kind of like what I was saying. If MTB heard a bunch of people showed up just to score a flip then maybe they just closed up to figure out what to do.
unfortunately, if they all have IDs with different addresses, the answer is nothing unless someone can point to a "Manpower" van or some such outside.
"At a time when the US Mint halted a bullion program due to excessive premiums charged by primary distributors, increasing their own product prices by large percentages with little justification comes across as brazen and inappropriate." >>
They have reasonable internal profit margin goals.
<< <i>I'm sure Prudentials phone mail is full of disgrunted nasty messages and their people have been b** at repeatedly. Eventually, they have to say screw this, they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Turns out the regular people are becoming as nasty and gready as the dealers. Demanding they get theirs.
This has turned into an ugly mob seen and even if an AP was going to try to do the right thing, they'll get crushed. I really don't blame them for looking at other ways to get rid of these instead of having to deal with public. >>
No, actually given that they had no effective way to sell the things, they should not have ordered them! This is just so basic. >>
No, actually they had an effective way. >>
They sold 10 sets before mtb had them for sale also
"At a time when the US Mint halted a bullion program due to excessive premiums charged by primary distributors, increasing their own product prices by large percentages with little justification comes across as brazen and inappropriate." >>
Wow, those are some steep price increases especially on the non precious metal products such as the coin bags, rolls and first day covers. I don't think that the U.S. Mint increasing their prices should be compared to limiting the AP's to not charging a certain amount, but I am curious why they have to increase roll and other prices so much.
<< <i>that's kind of like what I was saying. If MTB heard a bunch of people showed up just to score a flip then maybe they just closed up to figure out what to do.
unfortunately, if they all have IDs with different addresses, the answer is nothing unless someone can point to a "Manpower" van or some such outside. >>
That may be a geographical demographic difference in "evidence" between being an NYC resident/executive and being in Ohio. :-)
BTW.....let me be the first to announce that, in my non-secret real life, I have just accepted appointment as the next Director of the U.S. Mint, pending announcment and Congressional approval. I will be buying all remaining sets myself as soon as I'm sworn in and selling them to Rich R. as a "make good" for the other day.
<<Don did you see that cute girl on line in there? >>
Honestly, I was so far back on the line, all I saw was black hats and scraggly beards. I was almost against the doors in the 2nd line near the guy with the orange hat.
It would have been a pleasant surprise though!
Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
<< <i>One of my friends who ordered from MTB had a great conversation with them today.
I told him that he may want to call (no conf. email yet) to be sure that they got his order.
He called. They cut him off mid-sentence and told him that "you don't have an account with us." He said but I faxed the forms ...and was cut off again. He told that guy that a sales guy emailed him the form, he filled it out and sent a check. The guy looked, found his fax and said that he was good to go, will ship in 3 weeks. He added "if you hadn't have called me you would have gotten your check back." My friend asked about a conformation email. He said that he didn't need one, that "I'm telling you that you'll get your coins in three weeks." My friend said that the guy was very abrupt. Good lord. >>
Well, they may also be aware that the forms on out on the net and people are sending them in without being told to do so.
The price is out there, and the forms are out there.
Now they have to be on the defensive for people sending everything in but never actually having placed an order. They just expect things to be done for them. That is, they aren't following normal business procedures.
And if I were MTB, I wouldn't process anyone's paperwork who sent it in without first being asked to send it in!
<< <i>Swear I was the only goyim on line at MTB yesterday..... >>
whats a goyim? >>
Growing up on a street where my corner was "Little Poland," opposite "Little Italy," "Little Israel," and "Little Germany," ....you learn a lot of terms and euphanisms
Goyim, in historical perspective, means "nation." In modern terms, it's an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk. >>
I think in the context in the post, by don129, was actually meant to be interpreted as the contemptuous definition given to non-Jews as "cattle", not an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk, but I could be wrong. That is the only way I have ever heard the term used.
<< <i>that's kind of like what I was saying. If MTB heard a bunch of people showed up just to score a flip then maybe they just closed up to figure out what to do.
unfortunately, if they all have IDs with different addresses, the answer is nothing unless someone can point to a "Manpower" van or some such outside. >>
Seriously, no one knows if they had hidden cameras, as I would expect such a business would...almost like a casino, and whether anyone may have heard conversations, etc. We'll likely never know but I suspect they had more to go on than purely the cut of the clothes of a group of individuals. No major corporation is going to expose itself to that kind of legal and financial liability otherwise.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Here's another test of an AP...because now I have a Surpreme Bug Up My A** over this whole situation:
I just called Dillon Gage and said that I wanted to buy 5 1 oz 2011 gold eagles.
The salesman told me that they haven't come out yet but that he would be happy to call me when they're available.
Then I said that I wanted to buy an ATB set...[long pause]...then he said they weren't for sale yet.
So I said, but you'll be glad to call me when they're available, right?
"Ah...no. I can't do that."
Why not? [click...dialtone]
And that nicely sums up this whole rigged game. >>
You want a laugh? Look at the DG add in the current CW. It talks all about their friendly, top notch customer service. LOL >>
If this is true, and I am NOT saying you have fabricated this in any way, I would suggest you write exactly what you said to CW in a Letter to the Editor, at once and let's see how Fran stirs the pot over it!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Prudentials phone mail is full of disgrunted nasty messages and their people have been b** at repeatedly. Eventually, they have to say screw this, they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Turns out the regular people are becoming as nasty and gready as the dealers. Demanding they get theirs.
This has turned into an ugly mob seen and even if an AP was going to try to do the right thing, they'll get crushed. I really don't blame them for looking at other ways to get rid of these instead of having to deal with public. >>
No, actually given that they had no effective way to sell the things, they should not have ordered them! This is just so basic. >>
No, actually they had an effective way. >>
One rude guy answering one phone for 3000 of them???
<<Still think MTB isn't selling multiples out the back door? >>
Remain Calm
Don't Panic
Nothing to see here...move along...
get a set and a partial refund ?
Never got clear on that....
LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
<< <i>What about Jack Hunt Coin Broker?
The following statement is posted on their website:
***DUE TO THE EXTREME SHORTAGE OF GOLD & SILVER BULLION
PRODUCTS, JHCB IS ONLY OFFERING BULLION PRODUCTS TO
ITS ESTABLISHED DEALER NETWORK*** >>
I wrote them a message expressing interest, through their website before MTB and after (just in case MTB fell through). I got a very nasty "don't bother us, watch the website for details" email from them the other day. I should have kept it but it made me so darn mad I that I immediately deleted it rather than have it around to read again.
I already contacted Steve Roach, assistant editor at Coin World, with a full account of the MTB debacle...
He said that they've heard plenty already...ditto for the Mint's Public Affairs & Legal Departments...so I've already done my part for God and country.
But feel free to pile on...the more the merrier!
<< <i>Did everyone that ordered sets from Apmex at the 1395 price
get a set and a partial refund ?
Never got clear on that.... >>
Yes
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>10 Sets from one seller - all to one buyer - in NYC
Still think MTB isn't selling multiples out the back door? >>
2010 America the Beautiful 5 oz Silver Bullion Coin 5 Pc Set
This is NOT a pre-sale... THE SETS ARE IN HAND
For Sale: The brand new, much anticipated
2010 America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver bullion five-coin set.
Order with Confidence!
NYC Coins has done 100+ transactions worth hundreds of thousands of dollars of
coins/bullion on ebay over the last 8 years and we have 100% positive feedback.
Note: The sets sold in this listing - 10 Sets - were purchased from MTB in NYC on 1/3/2011 - they were not given with any capsules.
They are in plastic protective cases which were carefully wrapped in bubble wrap.
Due to the extremely limited mintage of just 33,000 coins for each of the five designs issued for 2010,
the coins are being viewed as collectible rarities rather than bullion products. These coins are three
inches in diameter, 5 ounces each of .999 silver, and has edge lettering. It also features the more
popular national parks such as the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, and Yellowstone.
These are some of the reasons why there is so much interest in these coins.
This likely will be the key date of the series.
You will receive a complete set of five coins - one each of the following designs:
Hot Springs National Park, Arkansas
Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming
Yosemite National Park, California
Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona
Mount Hood National Park, Oregon
We only ship to the 48 contiguous states. No P.O. boxes.
Shipping is Free via USPS Priority Mail with insurance. USPS will require signature upon delivery.
Buyer can opt for faster / alternative shipping - at buyers expense.
All sales final. Ask all questions before buying.
I guess MTB is just following the Mint's Instructions. Pure BULLS*IT!! >>
perhaps this is one of the people that MTB was afraid was buying with ringers.... and got away with it.
I'll keep a watch and see if they have any more to sell. thanks for letting me know. >>
I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales.
<< <i>Did everyone that ordered sets from Apmex at the 1395 price
get a set and a partial refund ?
Never got clear on that.... >>
Yes - a set and a refund.
<< <i>Whoa! Unopened box of pucks just went for $3800 on the bay. >>
link
<< <i>
<< <i>Whoa! Unopened box of pucks just went for $3800 on the bay. >>
link >>
miles did well.
<< <i>
<< <i>Whoa! Unopened box of pucks just went for $3800 on the bay. >>
link >>
The seller's name looks familiar...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Prudentials phone mail is full of disgrunted nasty messages and their people have been b** at repeatedly. Eventually, they have to say screw this, they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Turns out the regular people are becoming as nasty and gready as the dealers. Demanding they get theirs.
This has turned into an ugly mob seen and even if an AP was going to try to do the right thing, they'll get crushed. I really don't blame them for looking at other ways to get rid of these instead of having to deal with public. >>
No, actually given that they had no effective way to sell the things, they should not have ordered them! This is just so basic. >>
No, actually they had an effective way. >>
Disneyland having only one ticket booth open at opening time is not an effective way to serve the public.
<< <i>
<< <i>Did everyone that ordered sets from Apmex at the 1395 price
get a set and a partial refund ?
Never got clear on that.... >>
Yes - a set and a refund. >>
Thank you...
just another case of woulda, coulda, shoulda.... I guess....
LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
<< <i><<If this is true, and I am NOT saying you have fabricated this in any way, I would suggest you write exactly what you said to CW in a Letter to the Editor, at once and let's see how Fran stirs the pot over it! >>
I already contacted Steve Roach, assistant editor at Coin World, with a full account of the MTB debacle...
He said that they've heard plenty already...ditto for the Mint's Public Affairs & Legal Departments...so I've already done my part for God and country.
But feel free to pile on...the more the merrier! >>
Good on you. Thanks for your efforts on everyone's behalf.
I told him that he may want to call (no conf. email yet) to be sure that they got his order.
He called. They cut him off mid-sentence and told him that "you don't have an account with us." He said but I faxed the forms ...and was cut off again. He told that guy that a sales guy emailed him the form, he filled it out and sent a check. The guy looked, found his fax and said that he was good to go, will ship in 3 weeks. He added "if you hadn't have called me you would have gotten your check back." My friend asked about a conformation email. He said that he didn't need one, that "I'm telling you that you'll get your coins in three weeks." My friend said that the guy was very abrupt. Good lord.
<< <i>top review on APMEX about the ATB:
"mark from Florida says
Thank you APMEX...Thank you APMEX...Thank you APMEX...my first purchase from you, and wow, look at what I got. I could sell them for close to $3000.00 right now, but I love them too much to part with. Lots of people could have bought them, but they chose to cry about the high prices. Hope they never get them." >>
Anyone happen to know if this assjack is a member here and, if so, what their handle is?
<< <i>I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time. >>
Wow, many of us don't even have an email conformation despite that our bank checks were delivered yesterday and you've had multiple emails. Good job.
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide.
<< <i>
<< <i>Whoa! Unopened box of pucks just went for $3800 on the bay. >>
link >>
hey miles did you get the check out?? Guess it doesn't really matter with that price oh well another fool and his money have parted.....................
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
I am an official RichR Fan! He's calling it exactly as it went down. Moishe & Shlomo all made out very well Monday @ MTB. Coin collectors, not so much.
<< <i>One of my friends who ordered from MTB had a great conversation with them today.
I told him that he may want to call (no conf. email yet) to be sure that they got his order.
He called. They cut him off mid-sentence and told him that "you don't have an account with us." He said but I faxed the forms ...and was cut off again. He told that guy that a sales guy emailed him the form, he filled it out and sent a check. The guy looked, found his fax and said that he was good to go, will ship in 3 weeks. He added "if you hadn't have called me you would have gotten your check back." My friend asked about a conformation email. He said that he didn't need one, that "I'm telling you that you'll get your coins in three weeks." My friend said that the guy was very abrupt. Good lord. >>
I've found that dealing with MTB is like ordering soup from the Soup Nazi. I try to be as short and succinct as possible. If you ask them why you didn't get bread, then they bring out the "no pucks for you".
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i><<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
here you are wondering if they aren't in it for the money, and the GC and those there reported people being paid to buy...
then you criticize MTB because they were afraid some people might be in line just for the flip opportunity?
someone who went inside may have told them 1 person showed up asking questions then a bunch of friends came... and they obviously didn't know jack about these coinas until people on the outside tipped them to the flip.
anyone on here Jewish? Orthodox Jewish? Speak Hebrew / Yiddish?
LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
<< <i>
<< <i>I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time. >>
Wow, many of us don't even have an email conformation despite that our bank checks were delivered yesterday and you've had multiple emails. Good job. >>
I give "good e-mail putouts."
<< <i><<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
Not disputing or disrespecting you in any way....just providing a "possible" alternative scenario............. similarities about potential ringers may have "finally" made its way to the appropriate MTB leadership and they "ascertained/guessed/observed (perhaps by hidden camera?)/etc. similarities as to specific individuals and that they were communicating by cell phones. That could have raised, IMHO, reasonable enough suspicions to take action (2 plus 2 usually does equal 4, most of the time) particularly as additional individuals showed up. It's not really any different than the authorities calling the ringers out of line in...where was it, Ohio?...and telling them to move along. We're close to talking "profiling" here and that's not a topic for this board. OTOH, if an equal number of albinos suddenly showed up somewhere with cell phone and more albinos showed up, it might be logical to conclude that they were in contact with each other for whatever purposes they may have in mind, whether legal/illegal, ethical/unethical or not. Again, tough call but with a different, less controversial example.
Now, should MTB have then continued selling to the public? Tough call, IMHO. I would have likely shared your anger that day but if it were my call.....and I was in a legal and ethical position where my decision might have significant consequences as to our Mint status in the future under very stringent and new guidelines.....I'd likely have made the same decision(s).
I feel your frustration, pain and anger though and really do understand your position. Just saying is all.....
<< <i>
<< <i><<I am reasonably confident that MTB figured out they had ringers in their OTC line and that was, in part, why they ceased sales. My guess is along your lines, that these were the ones who got through before they caught on and ceased direct public sales. >>
OK...since I'm obsessed with keeping the MTB record straight, I will say this again...on Monday, over the course of approx. 4 hours, approx. 25 people went in...one at a time..with proper photo ID...and each emerged with a single set. And most of them just happened to be Hasidic Jews (that's the truth and I'm not using any coded language anymore). And no, they were not collectors but had heard that this was a good set to buy (and they were asking people like me how much it might be worth if held). Fair enough...they got a tip and were there, cash in hand, ready to buy.
The line was always orderly (despite that no MTB reps ever came up to provide guidance or advice) and at no point exceeded a max of 30 people.
And then 2 hours early they ended sales and told us to all take a hike, under threat of calling the NYPD. They would not make a list of names of the 30 people in line, would not accept our completed Patriot Act forms, and would not give us any satisfaction for wasting half a day in line.
Now if MTB is spreading the word about "ringers"...then someone at MTB must have gotten their panties in a snit about selling these valuable coins to a bunch of Hasidic Jews who, I'm guessing, are not their regular customers. And if that is the case, then their business and business practices deserve to be slammed from every concievable direction.
You decide. >>
here you are wondering if they aren't in it for the money, and the GC and those there reported people being paid to buy...
then you criticize MTB because they were afraid some people might be in line just for the flip opportunity?
someone who went inside may have told them 1 person showed up asking questions then a bunch of friends came... and they obviously didn't know jack about these coinas until people on the outside tipped them to the flip. >>
You and I should get together and pitch "Law and Order - Numismatic Offense Division" to NBC!
<< <i>
<< <i>I just received additional confirmation from MTB that they have received my wire transfer of yesterday from my bank and credited it to my just create account with them from the other day. They now expect to ship within two weeks to anyone whose funds have cleared and been officially posted to your MTB account by that time. I think it's reasonable to expect that I will be among the first to receive a set from them and I will, of course, let everyone here know when I receive mine and the details (packaging, coin holders, quality of coins, etc.) at that time. >>
Wow, many of us don't even have an email conformation despite that our bank checks were delivered yesterday and you've had multiple emails. Good job. >>
thanks, but please remember that bank checks are not as immediate as bank wire transfers. I paid the slightly higher price to assure a "trace chain" through the FED, which wire transfers provide.
us mint product price for 2011
"At a time when the US Mint halted a bullion program due to excessive premiums charged by primary distributors, increasing their own product prices by large percentages with little justification comes across as brazen and inappropriate."
unfortunately, if they all have IDs with different addresses, the answer is nothing unless someone can point to a "Manpower" van or some such outside.
<< <i>I wonder what impact the new Mint pricing will have on all those that felt they were being gouged?
us mint product price for 2011
"At a time when the US Mint halted a bullion program due to excessive premiums charged by primary distributors, increasing their own product prices by large percentages with little justification comes across as brazen and inappropriate." >>
They have reasonable internal profit margin goals.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Prudentials phone mail is full of disgrunted nasty messages and their people have been b** at repeatedly. Eventually, they have to say screw this, they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Turns out the regular people are becoming as nasty and gready as the dealers. Demanding they get theirs.
This has turned into an ugly mob seen and even if an AP was going to try to do the right thing, they'll get crushed. I really don't blame them for looking at other ways to get rid of these instead of having to deal with public. >>
No, actually given that they had no effective way to sell the things, they should not have ordered them! This is just so basic. >>
No, actually they had an effective way. >>
They sold 10 sets before mtb had them for sale also
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>I wonder what impact the new Mint pricing will have on all those that felt they were being gouged?
us mint product price for 2011
"At a time when the US Mint halted a bullion program due to excessive premiums charged by primary distributors, increasing their own product prices by large percentages with little justification comes across as brazen and inappropriate." >>
Wow, those are some steep price increases especially on the non precious metal products such as the coin bags, rolls and first day covers. I don't think that the U.S. Mint increasing their prices should be compared to limiting the AP's to not charging a certain amount, but I am curious why they have to increase roll and other prices so much.
<< <i>that's kind of like what I was saying. If MTB heard a bunch of people showed up just to score a flip then maybe they just closed up to figure out what to do.
unfortunately, if they all have IDs with different addresses, the answer is nothing unless someone can point to a "Manpower" van or some such outside. >>
That may be a geographical demographic difference in "evidence" between being an NYC resident/executive and being in Ohio. :-)
BTW.....let me be the first to announce that, in my non-secret real life, I have just accepted appointment as the next Director of the U.S. Mint, pending announcment and Congressional approval. I will be buying all remaining sets myself as soon as I'm sworn in and selling them to Rich R. as a "make good" for the other day.
Honestly, I was so far back on the line, all I saw was black hats and scraggly beards. I was almost against the doors in the 2nd line near the guy with the orange hat.
It would have been a pleasant surprise though!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>One of my friends who ordered from MTB had a great conversation with them today.
I told him that he may want to call (no conf. email yet) to be sure that they got his order.
He called. They cut him off mid-sentence and told him that "you don't have an account with us." He said but I faxed the forms ...and was cut off again. He told that guy that a sales guy emailed him the form, he filled it out and sent a check. The guy looked, found his fax and said that he was good to go, will ship in 3 weeks. He added "if you hadn't have called me you would have gotten your check back." My friend asked about a conformation email. He said that he didn't need one, that "I'm telling you that you'll get your coins in three weeks." My friend said that the guy was very abrupt. Good lord. >>
Well, they may also be aware that the forms on out on the net and people are sending them in without being told to do so.
The price is out there, and the forms are out there.
Now they have to be on the defensive for people sending everything in but never actually having placed an order. They just expect things to be done for them. That is, they aren't following normal business procedures.
And if I were MTB, I wouldn't process anyone's paperwork who sent it in without first being asked to send it in!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Swear I was the only goyim on line at MTB yesterday..... >>
whats a goyim? >>
Growing up on a street where my corner was "Little Poland," opposite "Little Italy," "Little Israel," and "Little Germany," ....you learn a lot of terms and euphanisms
Goyim, in historical perspective, means "nation." In modern terms, it's an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk. >>
I think in the context in the post, by don129, was actually meant to be interpreted as the contemptuous definition given to non-Jews as "cattle", not an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk, but I could be wrong. That is the only way I have ever heard the term used.
<< <i>that's kind of like what I was saying. If MTB heard a bunch of people showed up just to score a flip then maybe they just closed up to figure out what to do.
unfortunately, if they all have IDs with different addresses, the answer is nothing unless someone can point to a "Manpower" van or some such outside. >>
Seriously, no one knows if they had hidden cameras, as I would expect such a business would...almost like a casino, and whether anyone may have heard conversations, etc. We'll likely never know but I suspect they had more to go on than purely the cut of the clothes of a group of individuals. No major corporation is going to expose itself to that kind of legal and financial liability otherwise.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment