<<I think you've got that backwards. Without demand (the feeding frenzy), it would not be possible for anyone to make fat resale profits. >>
Actually what we're witnessing here is an item that's admittedly in high demand PLUS an artificially constricted supply...thanks to the APs.
And this is the same phenomina you'd witness, for example, if all oil companies decided to stop pumping gasoline tomorrow. Suddenly, a $4 commodity would likely zoom to $20...no mystery...illegal, yes, but not a mystery. The gas isn't relly worth 4x as much overnight...except for the price manipulation.
And that's why we have laws on the books...to check the more base of the human urges, such as greed! Gee...I think most books of the Bible also warm about that deadly sin.
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
What was the internet like back then????
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>we're witnessing here is an item that's admittedly in high demand PLUS an artificially constricted supply...thanks to the APs. >>
Well, that should be easy enough to fix- the mint just has to make as many as there is demand for. Preferrably more. That the mint's not doing this is not the fault of the APs.
<< <i>And that's why we have laws on the books...to check the more base of the human urges, such as greed! >>
There are laws on the books to do something about people wanting these coins?
I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE
<< <i>we're witnessing here is an item that's admittedly in high demand PLUS an artificially constricted supply...thanks to the APs. >>
Well, that should be easy enough to fix- the mint just has to make as many as there is demand for. Preferrably more. That the mint's not doing this is not the fault of the APs.
<< <i>And that's why we have laws on the books...to check the more base of the human urges, such as greed! >>
There are laws on the books to do something about people wanting these coins? >>
LOL, I am certain you are not serious on that last sentence.
If so, see image below about Fascism for some guidance.
I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again.
Edit: Mike at HSN was also wrong by about two years about Satin Finish going away, and this change would require a change in the law. Thanks
<< <i>I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again. >>
The Coin Modernization Act allows for a bullion coin with the size between 2.5-3''. So, while there's no guarantee they will make them smaller, it's pretty likely.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again. >>
The Coin Modernization Act allows for a bullion coin with the size between 2.5-3''. So, while there's no guarantee they will make them smaller, it's pretty likely. >>
You're right, I was searching through the coin bills this year and had just clicked on that bill without reading it yet before seeing your comment, it specifically changes the law. I guess 2.5" is still unique enough of a size.
Aren't these the first and only five-ounce coins in the world that are 3" in diameter? My understanding is that all other five-ounce coins are 2.5". So that adds another novelty factor. Given that these were so difficult to produce, this may be the only time the Mint ever makes a five-ounce, 3" coin. Gee, I'm starting to sound like an HSN huckster.
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I understand your thinking. In response I'll ask you to consider two things. The first is that this may be the only set of hockey pucks to be 3.0 inches as the Mint now has the authority to make all the rest 2.5 inches in order to minimize mint problems. The second is to try and imagine waaayyy back when the the two $50. PanPacs were first offered. Short to medium term, I doubt many collectors thought they'd be whatever terminology they used for "moon money," in those days. Add the same amount of time to this very first, and very limited set....regardless of whether you have a PCGS MS 64 or 67 or 70 (winning PowerBall may be more likely)....and I think a similarly long range perspective can (and does) put these particular 5 pucks in that potential.....very strongly so, I believe. >>
tcmitssr-
Thanks for the great posts today!
I think that the main factor limiting future appreciation of the bullion pucks will be the numismatic pucks (it they're every issued). I think that the bullion pucks will always do well, but will live in the shadows of the numismatic version, which will likely be incredible. The numismatic version should be 3" as well. Your thoughts on this? >>
thanks for your kind words.
I think it's highly likely there will never be 3 inch pucks again, they are too frail from all reports. That's why Congress passed late in the last session authorization to shrink them to 2.5 inches at the Mint's discretion. These first pucks will be truly unique and the series keys. Many may collect the 100,000 sets each year in the future but there will never be more than 33,000 complete sets, assuming they are kept together, not melted (if silver continues to rise) etc. Grandparents may split their 5 coins among 5 grandchildren over time as another example. These 33,000 sets will only be reduced/dissipated/dispersed over time, shrinking their actual and practical true numbers for complete sets.
Supply and demand. Short term supply in six months might make decisions now seem stupid but in six years, extremely smart and wise.
<< <i>Questioning the demand and after Market of these. Coins?
How many 2008 W with reverse of 2007 W Silver $1 did they make??
...44,000 units.
On EBay right now, a 2008 W with reverse of 2007 W Silver $1 is $360 each~ raw and about $400 Graded!
There are ONLY 33,000 of Each of these ATB units. - 3" Diameter this year going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year.
This is a no-brainer. >>
Furthermore, consider the grandparent who buys a set and then gives one coin each to 5 of his grandkids, nieces, nephews etc., shrinking the true total available for sets even more.
<< <i>I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE >>
U.S. Treasury Agents already exist, correct? I have a friend who is a lawyer with the Mint. They do not have a shortage of available law enforcement officials and agencies they can call on as necessary.
<< <i>I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again.
Edit: Mike at HSN was also wrong by about two years about Satin Finish going away, and this change would require a change in the law. Thanks >>
It was changed late in the lame duck Congress session of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. The Mint can (and I think will) go to 2.5 immediately with the upcoming commercial issue they will be offering of the 2010 pucks.
<< <i>I just read at CoinTalk that some APs are sending these out to NGC and PCGS for grading now. They claim this is a loophole that will allow the APs mega-markups.
Can anyone confirm this? >>
There are no rules prohibiting the APs from doing this. However, they still can only sell them for 10% more than they paid the Mint, so it would make absolutely no sense for them to do this.
I year, low mintage type pucks at 3 inches 33,000... so the 27,000 mintage will not make a big difference as they will not be one year type but many will be like this...
[Furthermore, consider the grandparent who buys a set and then gives one coin each to 5 of his grandkids, nieces, nephews etc., shrinking the true total available for sets even more. >>
Oh yes, I am imagining all those grandparents standing in line in 20 degree weather to get a set for their grandkids.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
The average person has been completely edged out of all of this. It says a lot that the most dedicated collectors--those here--are having a hard time getting these.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE >>
U.S. Treasury Agents already exist, correct? I have a friend who is a lawyer with the Mint. They do not have a shortage of available law enforcement officials and agencies they can call on as necessary. >>
Must be nice to have insider friends at the Mint you can discuss police readiness with!----------------------------BigE
<< <i>[Furthermore, consider the grandparent who buys a set and then gives one coin each to 5 of his grandkids, nieces, nephews etc., shrinking the true total available for sets even more. >>
Oh yes, I am imagining all those grandparents standing in line in 20 degree weather to get a set for their grandkids. >>
Of course not. However, consider the grandparents with an account at an AP who is notified by them of this "one time unique opportunity," and because they have the finances to already be a client, they pick up a set.
It's very realistic to envision them splitting a set up among grandkids, neices, nephews or even their own adult kids.
All of a sudden 33,000 complete sets could become 30,000 or less as a result.
<< <i>I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE >>
U.S. Treasury Agents already exist, correct? I have a friend who is a lawyer with the Mint. They do not have a shortage of available law enforcement officials and agencies they can call on as necessary. >>
Must be nice to have insider friends at the Mint you can discuss police readiness with!----------------------------BigE >>
One friend in the Mint's legal department. They do not have a shortage of law enforcement personnel and agencies that they can turn to as the need may arise.
No. They now have the right to make the change, but no obligation to do so. Having spent millions to perfect the three-inch format, why change? TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
No. They now have the right to make the change, but no obligation to do so. Having spent millions to perfect the three-inch format, why change? TD >>
If it's not in their plans to do so, why did they request & obtained congressional approval to do so?
I believe it's a done deal for 2011 pucks. As 7over8 so often states "you can put a fork in it" >>
Does the Mint currently put a 2.5" silver coin out? If not, do you think they are going to be able to re-tool the press and have their supplier develop tooling to make the new planchets. Since this change occurred late in the year, the Mint will have to develop the diameter and thickness that will take the strike the best (how long did they spend trying to get the UHR correct?), get the supplier making the planchets - which was the bottleneck for the 2010's - and produce 100,000 of each design? Think they will be able to obtain 500,000 pucks and have them struck before the end of the year? I am leaning to making the change in 2012. Figure they have been buying 3" pucks and will use them this year while they gear up for 2.5".
As for the Mint police, the rules put out for the AP's are just that, rules. Not laws. Congress passes laws, not a bunch of bureaucrats. The AP's face no legal jeopardy for violating these rules.
<<The AP's face no legal jeopardy for violating these rules. >>
Actually, they do...as those bureaucrats select vendors, not Congress.
And those same bureaucrats who are taking flack over the phone due to the behavior of the APs might just hold a grudge come contract renewal time.
As someone who has served in government...Congress only passes laws...the real power lies in how those laws are interpreted and enforced (by bureaucrats).
<< <i><<The AP's face no legal jeopardy for violating these rules. >>
Actually, they do...as those bureaucrats select vendors, not Congress.
And those same bureaucrats who are taking flack over the phone due to the behavior of the APs might just hold a grudge come contract renewal time.
As someone who has served in government...Congress only passes laws...the real power lies in how those laws are interpreted and enforced (by bureaucrats). >>
Administrative action is different than legal. The Mint can decide not to renew their AP, but fines (or jail time as some here are advocating) are not an option - for the AP's or those buyers lucky enough to get more than one set.
<< <i>MTB update...still no confirmation to faxed and e-mailed forms submitted on Monday...and followed-up by phone yesterday. >>
I just spoke with MTB minutes ago. They guy said they are still working through all the faxes and emails they received on Monday, 1/3. He asked me to be patient...
Comments
Actually what we're witnessing here is an item that's admittedly in high demand PLUS an artificially constricted supply...thanks to the APs.
And this is the same phenomina you'd witness, for example, if all oil companies decided to stop pumping gasoline tomorrow. Suddenly, a $4 commodity would likely zoom to $20...no mystery...illegal, yes, but not a mystery. The gas isn't relly worth 4x as much overnight...except for the price manipulation.
And that's why we have laws on the books...to check the more base of the human urges, such as greed! Gee...I think most books of the Bible also warm about that deadly sin.
How many 2008 W with reverse of 2007 W Silver $1 did they make??
...44,000 units.
On EBay right now, a 2008 W with reverse of 2007 W Silver $1 is $360 each~ raw and about $400 Graded!
There are ONLY 33,000 of Each of these ATB units.
- 3" Diameter this year going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year.
This is a no-brainer.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
What was the internet like back then????
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
What was the internet like back then????
Dial up, I think.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
What was the internet like back then????
MUCH slower....
<< <i>we're witnessing here is an item that's admittedly in high demand PLUS an artificially constricted supply...thanks to the APs. >>
Well, that should be easy enough to fix- the mint just has to make as many as there is demand for. Preferrably more. That the mint's not doing this is not the fault of the APs.
<< <i>And that's why we have laws on the books...to check the more base of the human urges, such as greed! >>
There are laws on the books to do something about people wanting these coins?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Moy's legacy continues..... >>
God help that company that just hired him!
<< <i>This is a no-brainer. >>
coinboy...what took you so long?
<< <i>
<< <i>we're witnessing here is an item that's admittedly in high demand PLUS an artificially constricted supply...thanks to the APs. >>
Well, that should be easy enough to fix- the mint just has to make as many as there is demand for. Preferrably more. That the mint's not doing this is not the fault of the APs.
<< <i>And that's why we have laws on the books...to check the more base of the human urges, such as greed! >>
There are laws on the books to do something about people wanting these coins? >>
LOL, I am certain you are not serious on that last sentence.
If so, see image below about Fascism for some guidance.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is a no-brainer. >>
coinboy...what took you so long? >>
Lots going on at work, got to party late, but it is as you already knew.
I hope you got them at a great price, BigDaddyz! Way to go!
Edit: Mike at HSN was also wrong by about two years about Satin Finish going away, and this change would require a change in the law.
Thanks
BigDaddy, we know you are holding out on your buddies, come on now
<< <i>The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >> >>
You're right...it's going for Mega Moon Money.
<< <i>I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again.
>>
The Coin Modernization Act allows for a bullion coin with the size between 2.5-3''. So, while there's no guarantee they will make them smaller, it's pretty likely.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again.
>>
The Coin Modernization Act allows for a bullion coin with the size between 2.5-3''. So, while there's no guarantee they will make them smaller, it's pretty likely. >>
You're right, I was searching through the coin bills this year and had just clicked on that bill without reading it yet before seeing your comment, it specifically changes the law. I guess 2.5" is still unique enough of a size.
Here is the bill if anybody is interested, Coin Modernization Act
Thanks
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I understand your thinking. In response I'll ask you to consider two things. The first is that this may be the only set of hockey pucks to be 3.0 inches as the Mint now has the authority to make all the rest 2.5 inches in order to minimize mint problems. The second is to try and imagine waaayyy back when the the two $50. PanPacs were first offered. Short to medium term, I doubt many collectors thought they'd be whatever terminology they used for "moon money," in those days. Add the same amount of time to this very first, and very limited set....regardless of whether you have a PCGS MS 64 or 67 or 70 (winning PowerBall may be more likely)....and I think a similarly long range perspective can (and does) put these particular 5 pucks in that potential.....very strongly so, I believe. >>
tcmitssr-
Thanks for the great posts today!
I think that the main factor limiting future appreciation of the bullion pucks will be the numismatic pucks (it they're every issued). I think that the bullion pucks will always do well, but will live in the shadows of the numismatic version, which will likely be incredible. The numismatic version should be 3" as well. Your thoughts on this? >>
thanks for your kind words.
I think it's highly likely there will never be 3 inch pucks again, they are too frail from all reports. That's why Congress passed late in the last session authorization to shrink them to 2.5 inches at the Mint's discretion. These first pucks will be truly unique and the series keys. Many may collect the 100,000 sets each year in the future but there will never be more than 33,000 complete sets, assuming they are kept together, not melted (if silver continues to rise) etc. Grandparents may split their 5 coins among 5 grandchildren over time as another example. These 33,000 sets will only be reduced/dissipated/dispersed over time, shrinking their actual and practical true numbers for complete sets.
Supply and demand. Short term supply in six months might make decisions now seem stupid but in six years, extremely smart and wise.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
a-yup.....one of my points exactly.
<< <i>Questioning the demand and after Market of these. Coins?
How many 2008 W with reverse of 2007 W Silver $1 did they make??
...44,000 units.
On EBay right now, a 2008 W with reverse of 2007 W Silver $1 is $360 each~ raw and about $400 Graded!
There are ONLY 33,000 of Each of these ATB units.
- 3" Diameter this year going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year.
This is a no-brainer. >>
Furthermore, consider the grandparent who buys a set and then gives one coin each to 5 of his grandkids, nieces, nephews etc., shrinking the true total available for sets even more.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
What was the internet like back then????
MUCH slower....
>>
ask Al Gore, he did invent it after all, right?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar... >>
What was the internet like back then????
MUCH slower....
>>
ask Al Gore, he did invent it after all, right? >>
Al Gore invented time machines too!
<< <i>I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE >>
U.S. Treasury Agents already exist, correct? I have a friend who is a lawyer with the Mint. They do not have a shortage of available law enforcement officials and agencies they can call on as necessary.
<< <i>I've been meaning to ask this question, the only reason I really want one of these coins, I don't care which one I get is just because I want to have a 3" coin. On HSN though they keep saying that they are going to be 2.5" from now on, and this is the only year of 3" coins, is this true? I don't see after reading Moy's guest commentary in Coin World and going through all that trouble to get these made why they would change the size again.
Edit: Mike at HSN was also wrong by about two years about Satin Finish going away, and this change would require a change in the law.
Thanks >>
It was changed late in the lame duck Congress session of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. The Mint can (and I think will) go to 2.5 immediately with the upcoming commercial issue they will be offering of the 2010 pucks.
<< <i>I just read at CoinTalk that some APs are sending these out to NGC and PCGS for grading now. They claim this is a loophole that will allow the APs mega-markups.
Can anyone confirm this? >>
There are no rules prohibiting the APs from doing this. However, they still can only sell them for 10% more than they paid the Mint, so it would make absolutely no sense for them to do this.
<< <i>
<< <i>Pretty cheap at Apmex! >>
I have done a lot of business with APMEX in the last few years and them holding these is getting old. Whether I get a set or not - sell them!
They can keep their damn tin of popcorn!
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Oh yes, I am imagining all those grandparents standing in line in 20 degree weather to get a set for their grandkids.
<< <i>
<< <i>I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE >>
U.S. Treasury Agents already exist, correct? I have a friend who is a lawyer with the Mint. They do not have a shortage of available law enforcement officials and agencies they can call on as necessary. >>
Must be nice to have insider friends at the Mint you can discuss police readiness with!----------------------------BigE
<< <i>[Furthermore, consider the grandparent who buys a set and then gives one coin each to 5 of his grandkids, nieces, nephews etc., shrinking the true total available for sets even more. >>
Oh yes, I am imagining all those grandparents standing in line in 20 degree weather to get a set for their grandkids.
Of course not. However, consider the grandparents with an account at an AP who is notified by them of this "one time unique opportunity," and because they have the finances to already be a client, they pick up a set.
It's very realistic to envision them splitting a set up among grandkids, neices, nephews or even their own adult kids.
All of a sudden 33,000 complete sets could become 30,000 or less as a result.
<< <i>I know of some sets that are no longer intact but have been sold separately, so the intact set may be a real winner >>
Like I said....grandparents and/or collectors who want 1 or 2 but not the complete set because of their own personal reasons and/or preferences.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would love to see a poll of those "for" and "against" having Mint police. Seems like quite a few are for the idea----------------------------------BigE >>
U.S. Treasury Agents already exist, correct? I have a friend who is a lawyer with the Mint. They do not have a shortage of available law enforcement officials and agencies they can call on as necessary. >>
Must be nice to have insider friends at the Mint you can discuss police readiness with!----------------------------BigE >>
One friend in the Mint's legal department. They do not have a shortage of law enforcement personnel and agencies that they can turn to as the need may arise.
<< <i> ...going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year. >>
I have not seen that confirmed. Is it?
<< <i>
<< <i> ...going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year. >>
I have not seen that confirmed. Is it? >>
No. They now have the right to make the change, but no obligation to do so. Having spent millions to perfect the three-inch format, why change?
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> ...going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year. >>
I have not seen that confirmed. Is it? >>
No. They now have the right to make the change, but no obligation to do so. Having spent millions to perfect the three-inch format, why change?
TD >>
If it's not in their plans to do so, why did they request & obtained congressional approval to do so?
I believe it's a done deal for 2011 pucks. As 7over8 so often states "you can put a fork in it"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> ...going to 2" 1/2 Diameter next year. >>
I have not seen that confirmed. Is it? >>
No. They now have the right to make the change, but no obligation to do so. Having spent millions to perfect the three-inch format, why change?
TD >>
If it's not in their plans to do so, why did they request & obtained congressional approval to do so?
I believe it's a done deal for 2011 pucks. As 7over8 so often states "you can put a fork in it"
Does the Mint currently put a 2.5" silver coin out? If not, do you think they are going to be able to re-tool the press and have their supplier develop tooling to make the new planchets. Since this change occurred late in the year, the Mint will have to develop the diameter and thickness that will take the strike the best (how long did they spend trying to get the UHR correct?), get the supplier making the planchets - which was the bottleneck for the 2010's - and produce 100,000 of each design? Think they will be able to obtain 500,000 pucks and have them struck before the end of the year? I am leaning to making the change in 2012. Figure they have been buying 3" pucks and will use them this year while they gear up for 2.5".
As for the Mint police, the rules put out for the AP's are just that, rules. Not laws. Congress passes laws, not a bunch of bureaucrats. The AP's face no legal jeopardy for violating these rules.
Actually, they do...as those bureaucrats select vendors, not Congress.
And those same bureaucrats who are taking flack over the phone due to the behavior of the APs might just hold a grudge come contract renewal time.
As someone who has served in government...Congress only passes laws...the real power lies in how those laws are interpreted and enforced (by bureaucrats).
<< <i><<The AP's face no legal jeopardy for violating these rules. >>
Actually, they do...as those bureaucrats select vendors, not Congress.
And those same bureaucrats who are taking flack over the phone due to the behavior of the APs might just hold a grudge come contract renewal time.
As someone who has served in government...Congress only passes laws...the real power lies in how those laws are interpreted and enforced (by bureaucrats). >>
Administrative action is different than legal. The Mint can decide not to renew their AP, but fines (or jail time as some here are advocating) are not an option - for the AP's or those buyers lucky enough to get more than one set.
So their systems are either still "broken" or their deliberate or natural incompetence is still in place.
Take your pick.
<< <i>MTB update...still no confirmation to faxed and e-mailed forms submitted on Monday...and followed-up by phone yesterday. >>
I just spoke with MTB minutes ago. They guy said they are still working through all the faxes and emails they received on Monday, 1/3. He asked me to be patient...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>So how many sets are actually in the public's hands as of today across all APs that have sold them? Anyone know? Guess...? >>
32,000. Figure 1000 with HSN and the like
Sounds like a simple question to me...
or....
maybe they did ask and the answer was "We already sold all of them...here's our list of buyers"
<< <i>
<< <i>So how many sets are actually in the public's hands as of today across all APs that have sold them? Anyone know? Guess...? >>
32,000. Figure 1000 with HSN and the like >>
I agree....if you define "the public" as anyone/any dealer that is not an AP