<< <i>No order conf. from MTB yet. anyone else not receive theirs? >>
I haven't received any response to my emailed form nor my faxed form. I spoke with a guy Monday morning who told me to send an email to the "info@mtbcoins.com" with my name, addr and order request. He said he would then send me an email with the form to fill out. I never received an email from him; I got the form from you guys, filled them out and sent them back (fax and email). So I don't know if either of my attempts has been received or what. I certainly hope so...
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE
<< <i>No order conf. from MTB yet. anyone else not receive theirs? >>
I haven't received any response to my emailed form nor my faxed form. I spoke with a guy Monday morning who told me to send an email to the "info@mtbcoins.com" with my name, addr and order request. He said he would then send me an email with the form to fill out. I never received an email from him; I got the form from you guys, filled them out and sent them back (fax and email). So I don't know if either of my attempts has been received or what. I certainly hope so... >>
When you email/fax them, utilize your software/hardware to request confirmation reports. I would suggest you call tomorrow and ask about the status of your order.
I also received an order confirmation today from MTB. The email specifically said personal checks would be held for 17 days- it didn't say anything about bank issued checks. I just called and asked (got through quickly!) and they said bank checks are only held for 3 days.
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks.
I actually wanted this item, but forgot to bid, and checked in on it 10 minutes after it closed! $41 was cheaper than I expected it to go for, but there are quite a few of these boxes out there with 165,000 coins being made. >>
So how many AMERICA-BEAUTIFUL-5-OZ-OUNCE coins would have come in that box? >>
They had to be ordered in increments of 100 from the mint, so I'm assuming 100 in a box, does anybody know for sure?
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Do we know yet if the rule is 1 set per hh per AP or 1 set per hh period? In other words, ethics aside for a moment, did anyone who received a set from Apmex successfully obtain a second set from GC or MTB?
<For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.?
<<As for the OTC sales yesterday. From what I was told it was a debacle and they know it. Less than 1 percent of their total business is OTC and they usually just barely handle that. Hundreds of people showing up yesterday overwhelmed their already allocated human resources. Plus, they appear to have figured out that there may have been ringers in the OTC sales line and they did not want to challenge them, or reward unknown sources, with multiple orders. They were trying to keep to the actual letter and spirit of the Mint rules. Again, don't shoot the messenger. I wasn't there and I don't know what happened. I trust the people I have spoken with but they were not in a lobby either, I don't think, and they are giving their own second hand opinions. I don't think, but I am not sure, that they will resume OTC sales of the pucks as a result of what occurred yesterday.>>
OK...I can't let this one go by without being shot down...and if this is actually the party line/lies now being spread by MTB after shafting a few dozen people in person yesterday, then they truly are scum.
First off, in a space of nearly 4 hours at no time were more than 30-40 people (NOT HUNDREDS!), max, in line (and it was probably closer to 30), The line was also reasonably quiet once everyone realized the process being followed, no thanks to MTB who never sent up a sales rep to update anyone...not once!
Next, they sold a grand total of maybe 20 sets OTC during that entire period. And every person who purchased a set had photo ID, usually a US passport or driver's license...so their fear of "ringers" is total bull. One guy, who didn't get a set, offered someone else $500 bucks profit if he could buy their set. The answer was no.
But wait, there's more, when MTB decided to cut sales at 1:30 without warning (and 2 hours before their posted hours), we offered them several options to make things right with those waiting in line. They included:
Can you take our paperwork (which we had completed) and set up our accounts? NO!
Can you take our names and issue numbers to us so we can call-in tomorrow and not have to go back to square one? NO!
Do you still have sets. YES!
So why won't you sell them to us? BECAUSE WE WON'T. AND YOU CAN BLAME THE MINT...IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT!
And three minutes later...GET OUT OF HERE OR WE'LL CALL THE POLICE!
So we told him to call...funny how he didn't.
And that's what really transpired yesterday at MTB...and at least 2 or 3 of us here witnessed it.
So, no...no excuses/disinformation/outright lies are acceptable!
At 5:50 EST I rec'd the following from MTB: "Docs received, thank you. Will send sales confirmation tomorrow"
So they are working overtime to get these sets out. I first sent them my info yesterday around 12:30 pm EST. I spoke to them around 2:30 pm today and they are so swamped I am surprised to receive this acknowledgement. Today was a bad day on PM markets so I am sure they were hit with numerous trades due to the big drops. My opinion based on phone conversations and emails is that they are a straight up company that is not used to anything like this current craze. They are not staffed for heavy retail trade. So there's a light ray of sunshine for all you impatient and skeptical people out there!
I also feel there is a lot of misinformation about MTB as well. I first emailed MTB on Dec 20 inquiring about the coins. They replied on Monday, and within 15 minutes I had replied with the filled-out form and passport scan by email. Within an hour or so I had my sales confirmation. I WAS THE FIRST to post this in forum with the terms and prices.
I wouldn't recommend calling and asking for confirmation right away. Give them some time - a day or two - to respond. My impression is that if they sent you an account form, they reserved a set for you. Their phones were probably ringing of the hook - or probably trying to ring off of the hook today because of the fire sale in gold and silver today.
I can understand how MTB's OTC sales became a debacle. They simply weren't prepared and it got out of hand. They handle the situation poorly, but with the "ringers" showing up it was probably the right thing to do - sucks for the legit customers though I know and understand. There's no excuse for this, but it's what happened. Shun them if you must - I'm sure they would have rather sold you a set than send you away.
You need to ask yourself this question...How will this affect those AP's that have been and are primarily geared for the wholesale industry in the future? Will they continue to do retail business under the Mints restricted terms? It does not take a doctorate to answer that question. I hope that the paper shoveling bureaucrats employed by the Mint have "seen the light" and changes will be forthcoming for future puck releases.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I have to agree with Rich R about MTB. There was nowehere near hundreds (or even one hundred) people on line yesterday. MTB was unprepared for retail sales, thus, they never should have agreed to the Mint's terms and never should have purchased the coins.
Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
Pretty strong words advocating "jail time" for someone who enjoys selling a few of these sets to buy other items for their collection. Coins are a luxury item, just like a rare painting or an expensive sports car and there should be no worries about anyone being deprived of one. After 50 years of coin collecting have fun with your, in your own words "investments"-------------------------------BigE
<< <i> They had to be ordered in increments of 100 from the mint, so I'm assuming 100 in a box, does anybody know for sure? >>
Yes, 100 to a box (ten rolls of ten) = 500 ounces, same as a monster box of silver eagles.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I don't believe there will a strong enough collector base to drive these prices up long term. The AP's delay in releasing these coins have given them plenty of time to cherrypick the 69s and 70's, if any exisit, and trickling them out as they are has created a frothy frenzy demand to make a quick buck that I doubt will be substained long term. If I can buy a set for under a grand I will, but I am only truly interested in collecting the future mint issued sets. Sets of bullion 69 and 70s will be moon money but IMHO, I cannot see long term price increases for the sets of 67s and 68s. I won't pay over a grand now and unless silver goes up quite a bit in the future, I won't pay much over a grand next year either. (In other words most likely I will never have a set of the 2010 bullion)
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I understand your thinking. In response I'll ask you to consider two things. The first is that this may be the only set of hockey pucks to be 3.0 inches as the Mint now has the authority to make all the rest 2.5 inches in order to minimize mint problems. The second is to try and imagine waaayyy back when the the two $50. PanPacs were first offered. Short to medium term, I doubt many collectors thought they'd be whatever terminology they used for "moon money," in those days. Add the same amount of time to this very first, and very limited set....regardless of whether you have a PCGS MS 64 or 67 or 70 (winning PowerBall may be more likely)....and I think a similarly long range perspective can (and does) put these particular 5 pucks in that potential.....very strongly so, I believe.
<< <i>Swear I was the only goyim on line at MTB yesterday..... >>
whats a goyim? >>
Growing up on a street where my corner was "Little Poland," opposite "Little Italy," "Little Israel," and "Little Germany," ....you learn a lot of terms and euphanisms
Goyim, in historical perspective, means "nation." In modern terms, it's an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk.
<< <i>Swear I was the only goyim on line at MTB yesterday..... >>
whats a goyim? >>
Growing up on a street where my corner was "Little Poland," opposite "Little Italy," "Little Israel," and "Little Germany," ....you learn a lot of terms and euphanisms
Goyim, in historical perspective, means "nation." In modern terms, it's an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk.
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
Pretty strong words advocating "jail time" for someone who enjoys selling a few of these sets to buy other items for their collection. Coins are a luxury item, just like a rare painting or an expensive sports car and there should be no worries about anyone being deprived of one. After 50 years of coin collecting have fun with your, in your own words "investments"-------------------------------BigE >>
Strong words indeed and I stand by them.
There are times, few and possibly rare of occasion when elemental and basic fairness issues should take precedence over the "free" market. I would prosecute and jail anyone selling water and food at outrageous prices in an area devastated by a natural disaster for instance. Same for a generator during a wide spread power outage.
The pucks are the most unique numismatic "situation," in recent/modern American coinage. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic rarity. What we saw afterward by the AP's to begin with in selling them showed how "numismatic greed," exists. That the home shopping networks have a couple hundred to sell for over $4,000 is morally repugnant to me. Some folks are in "cahoots" with some others, somewhere and definitely, IMHO, against the figurative and literal directive of the Mint in this regard.
No kidding, if I were an ambitious Federal Prosecutor, I would be ALL OVER the home shopping networks for all the "hows and whys" as to their procurement etc. I'd put it to them like Spritzer used to do on Wall Street.
As I said, this is a unique situation, a true, once in a generation "one off." If you are fortunate enough to get a set and you want to flip it.....good on you and I hope you get moon money.....as long as you only get one set and followed the rules. OTOH if you're playing games with friends, relatives etc. getting extra sets for you....well, I'd like to RICO your sorry arse and think it should happen this time due to how every step along the way, the pucks have almost been predestined to be such a rarity. Even these first ones now may be the only 3 inch ones, which no one saw coming six months ago, to further their rarity.
We all talk about wanting to put coin doctors away and I'm all for it. Flippers, inherently, are not the same. However, with a special situation product whose sale has been mismanaged and compounded with errors at every step of the sales line and given the high public interest in wanting "one set," yeah, I'm all for a month or two in a country Club Fed for those who are trying to game the system in this particular case.
<< <i>The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic rarity. What we saw afterward by the AP's to begin with in selling them showed how "numismatic greed," exists. >>
Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.
There's plenty of greed to go around, that's for sure.
<<Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.>>
Sorry, but the Mint produced these and set the initial issue price that sould apply to everyone. It's been the greedy games played by the APs to initially try for fat resale profits and now with their deliberately obtuse distribution policies/games that's causing a feeding frenzy.
If the entire mintage had hit the street at once, maybe the price would have doubled...maybe.
What we're seeing here is the result of too little active Mint involvement/control, not too much!
<< <i>Ive about given up on this circus sideshow...see ya all on the mint's release day. Better have 5 computers open or 5 pages open at the same time so you can add every single coin to your cart.
Doubt they will sell as a set on release day...you thought the UHR or Lincoln Chronicles was madness...you aint seen nothing yet. >>
What do you guys expect the US Mint to sell their sets at? I can only imagine the riot when they come out at 40% over spot...
Come see Coinzine's Coin of the Day at http://www.coinzine.net/category/coin-of-the-day/ . Coinzine's looking for contributors! Want to publish your opinions or articles? Contact us at coinzine@coinzine.net
<< <i>The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic rarity. What we saw afterward by the AP's to begin with in selling them showed how "numismatic greed," exists. >>
Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.
There's plenty of greed to go around, that's for sure. >>
It is a controlled and regulated market in this case, not a free market. Hence, those who want "just one personal set," are not economically greedy for their desire against being held up by AP's and flippers who have multiple sets.
<< <i>It's been the greedy games played by the APs to initially try for fat resale profits and now with their deliberately obtuse distribution policies/games that's causing a feeding frenzy. >>
I think you've got that backwards. Without demand (the feeding frenzy), it would not be possible for anyone to make fat resale profits.
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I forget what channel the vintage auto auction is on, once a week, on upper tier Fios but about a month ago, a vintage, literally "new" (less than 1,000 miles) Edsel went for over $150,000.
I saw the same mania for the 06 Reverse Proof Gold. These have really come down in price since then with a mintage of only 10K. I still own 2 of the reverse proof gold.
I just read at CoinTalk that some APs are sending these out to NGC and PCGS for grading now. They claim this is a loophole that will allow the APs mega-markups.
<< <i><<Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.>>
Sorry, but the Mint produced these and set the initial issue price that sould apply to everyone. It's been the greedy games played by the APs to initially try for fat resale profits and now with their deliberately obtuse distribution policies/games that's causing a feeding frenzy.
If the entire mintage had hit the street at once, maybe the price would have doubled...maybe.
What we're seeing here is the result of too little active Mint involvement/control, not too much! >>
One of my other Uncles went in to buy a set right before 2pm and was told personally that they only have about 30 of the 600 left.
He then pointed to the white boxes sitting behind which totaled around 30.
My sister did estimate that in the morning there were about 350 people there in line before she left.
I do not think it is a stretch that they sold 600 sets on Monday. >>
I don't know what time they closed but by my numbers I was approx # 51 in the door and that took 1 1/2 hours...They started at 10 am, and I got thrown out of the store with my box at 11:30ish...Thus if 50 took an hour and a half figure by 1:00 p.m. shoulda been at around 100 by my math, no way there coulda been 30 left outta 600 by 2 p.m.????
The rules are that each Authorized Purchaser, people under contract with the Mint to distribute the coins, should only sell one coin per household. Each authorized purchaser can sell a coin to the same customer. The Mint is smart enough to realize they cant stop a collector from getting coins from each distributor.
Stating that RICO, or racketeering statutes should apply to coin collectors, or comparing this situation to price gouging food and water to starving people during a hurricane is silly.
I think it is wrong to sell hundreds of these sets to home shopping outlets, but thats just my opinion------------BigE
I actually wanted this item, but forgot to bid, and checked in on it 10 minutes after it closed! $41 was cheaper than I expected it to go for, but there are quite a few of these boxes out there with 165,000 coins being made. >>
So how many AMERICA-BEAUTIFUL-5-OZ-OUNCE coins would have come in that box? >>
Someone said 10 per container x 10 containers = 100 coins per box. 165,000 coins / 100 = 1,650 boxes to go around 1st box sold for $31.
Does anyone think there is going to be a market for empty America the Beautiful five-ounce Mint monster boxes? Only 1,650 to go around. Don't you think that anyone collecting these sets would also want a monter box also?
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least-------------BigE >>
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I understand your thinking. In response I'll ask you to consider two things. The first is that this may be the only set of hockey pucks to be 3.0 inches as the Mint now has the authority to make all the rest 2.5 inches in order to minimize mint problems. The second is to try and imagine waaayyy back when the the two $50. PanPacs were first offered. Short to medium term, I doubt many collectors thought they'd be whatever terminology they used for "moon money," in those days. Add the same amount of time to this very first, and very limited set....regardless of whether you have a PCGS MS 64 or 67 or 70 (winning PowerBall may be more likely)....and I think a similarly long range perspective can (and does) put these particular 5 pucks in that potential.....very strongly so, I believe. >>
tcmitssr-
Thanks for the great posts today!
I think that the main factor limiting future appreciation of the bullion pucks will be the numismatic pucks (it they're every issued). I think that the bullion pucks will always do well, but will live in the shadows of the numismatic version, which will likely be incredible. The numismatic version should be 3" as well. Your thoughts on this?
<< <i>Ive about given up on this circus sideshow...see ya all on the mint's release day. Better have 5 computers open or 5 pages open at the same time so you can add every single coin to your cart.
Doubt they will sell as a set on release day...you thought the UHR or Lincoln Chronicles was madness...you aint seen nothing yet. >>
What do you guys expect the US Mint to sell their sets at? I can only imagine the riot when they come out at 40% over spot... >>
This has been discussed repeatedly.
The mint sells ASE Proofs for a price and ASE bullion for a different price. They are different products with different costs, thus different prices.
In the interests of 20-20 hindsight, what might have happened if, on Dec. 6th when the Mint started selling the bullion versions to the AP's, they had also put their numismatic specimens on sale on their website for, say, 20% over melt? Might that have suppressed the speculation in the bullion pieces? . I know, I know, that's water under the dam, but might it have worked? . TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
<< <i>No order conf. from MTB yet. anyone else not receive theirs? >>
I haven't received any response to my emailed form nor my faxed form. I spoke with a guy Monday morning who told me to send an email to the "info@mtbcoins.com" with my name, addr and order request. He said he would then send me an email with the form to fill out. I never received an email from him; I got the form from you guys, filled them out and sent them back (fax and email). So I don't know if either of my attempts has been received or what. I certainly hope so...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
However, I know someone who did...about 2pm...so maybe they are still working
<< <i>yes we received a confirmation sheet yesterday.... >>
Great to hear that I am, no longer, the only board member to receive one!
<< <i>
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
<< <i>
<< <i>No order conf. from MTB yet. anyone else not receive theirs? >>
I haven't received any response to my emailed form nor my faxed form. I spoke with a guy Monday morning who told me to send an email to the "info@mtbcoins.com" with my name, addr and order request. He said he would then send me an email with the form to fill out. I never received an email from him; I got the form from you guys, filled them out and sent them back (fax and email). So I don't know if either of my attempts has been received or what. I certainly hope so... >>
When you email/fax them, utilize your software/hardware to request confirmation reports. I would suggest you call tomorrow and ask about the status of your order.
so my order was for ATB + something else...maybe this is why mine was processed promptly....it is not just for an ATB set....
eBay listings
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks.
they aren't moving well.
they aren't moving fast.
I guess I'll wait some more for MTB
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<< <i>Looks like the only thing coins n things have left are empty boxes
http://cgi.ebay.com/AMERICA-BEAUTIFUL-5-OZ-OUNCE-EMPTY-CASE-ROLL-silver-/270687523330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f063bd202 >>
Bridgewater, MA, >>
WINNING BID $ 31 + $ 10 SHIPPING = $ 41 >>
I actually wanted this item, but forgot to bid, and checked in on it 10 minutes after it closed! $41 was cheaper than I expected it to go for, but there are quite a few of these boxes out there with 165,000 coins being made. >>
So how many AMERICA-BEAUTIFUL-5-OZ-OUNCE coins would have come in that box? >>
They had to be ordered in increments of 100 from the mint, so I'm assuming 100 in a box, does anybody know for sure?
<< <i>
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<< <i>
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different.
<For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.?
OK...I can't let this one go by without being shot down...and if this is actually the party line/lies now being spread by MTB after shafting a few dozen people in person yesterday, then they truly are scum.
First off, in a space of nearly 4 hours at no time were more than 30-40 people (NOT HUNDREDS!), max, in line (and it was probably closer to 30), The line was also reasonably quiet once everyone realized the process being followed, no thanks to MTB who never sent up a sales rep to update anyone...not once!
Next, they sold a grand total of maybe 20 sets OTC during that entire period. And every person who purchased a set had photo ID, usually a US passport or driver's license...so their fear of "ringers" is total bull. One guy, who didn't get a set, offered someone else $500 bucks profit if he could buy their set. The answer was no.
But wait, there's more, when MTB decided to cut sales at 1:30 without warning (and 2 hours before their posted hours), we offered them several options to make things right with those waiting in line. They included:
Can you take our paperwork (which we had completed) and set up our accounts? NO!
Can you take our names and issue numbers to us so we can call-in tomorrow and not have to go back to square one? NO!
Do you still have sets. YES!
So why won't you sell them to us? BECAUSE WE WON'T. AND YOU CAN BLAME THE MINT...IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT!
And three minutes later...GET OUT OF HERE OR WE'LL CALL THE POLICE!
So we told him to call...funny how he didn't.
And that's what really transpired yesterday at MTB...and at least 2 or 3 of us here witnessed it.
So, no...no excuses/disinformation/outright lies are acceptable!
I knew it would happen.
"Docs received, thank you.
Will send sales confirmation tomorrow"
So they are working overtime to get these sets out. I first sent them my info yesterday around 12:30 pm EST. I spoke to them around 2:30 pm today and they are so swamped I am surprised to receive this acknowledgement. Today was a bad day on PM markets so I am sure they were hit with numerous trades due to the big drops. My opinion based on phone conversations and emails is that they are a straight up company that is not used to anything like this current craze. They are not staffed for heavy retail trade. So there's a light ray of sunshine for all you impatient and skeptical people out there!
I wouldn't recommend calling and asking for confirmation right away. Give them some time - a day or two - to respond. My impression is that if they sent you an account form, they reserved a set for you. Their phones were probably ringing of the hook - or probably trying to ring off of the hook today because of the fire sale in gold and silver today.
I can understand how MTB's OTC sales became a debacle. They simply weren't prepared and it got out of hand. They handle the situation poorly, but with the "ringers" showing up it was probably the right thing to do - sucks for the legit customers though I know and understand. There's no excuse for this, but it's what happened. Shun them if you must - I'm sure they would have rather sold you a set than send you away.
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<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
Pretty strong words advocating "jail time" for someone who enjoys selling a few of these sets to buy other items for their collection. Coins are a luxury item, just like a rare painting or an expensive sports car and there should be no worries about anyone being deprived of one. After 50 years of coin collecting have fun with your, in your own words "investments"-------------------------------BigE
Holy cow.
On another subject - I've become a compulsive neurotic email checker, thanks to constantly wondering when a response from an AP might arrive.
Before, I'd go days without checking my email. Now I'm obsessed.
<< <i>
They had to be ordered in increments of 100 from the mint, so I'm assuming 100 in a box, does anybody know for sure? >>
Yes, 100 to a box (ten rolls of ten) = 500 ounces, same as a monster box of silver eagles.
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<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
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<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I understand your thinking. In response I'll ask you to consider two things. The first is that this may be the only set of hockey pucks to be 3.0 inches as the Mint now has the authority to make all the rest 2.5 inches in order to minimize mint problems. The second is to try and imagine waaayyy back when the the two $50. PanPacs were first offered. Short to medium term, I doubt many collectors thought they'd be whatever terminology they used for "moon money," in those days. Add the same amount of time to this very first, and very limited set....regardless of whether you have a PCGS MS 64 or 67 or 70 (winning PowerBall may be more likely)....and I think a similarly long range perspective can (and does) put these particular 5 pucks in that potential.....very strongly so, I believe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Swear I was the only goyim on line at MTB yesterday..... >>
whats a goyim? >>
Growing up on a street where my corner was "Little Poland," opposite "Little Italy," "Little Israel," and "Little Germany," ....you learn a lot of terms and euphanisms
Goyim, in historical perspective, means "nation." In modern terms, it's an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk.
<< <i>
<< <i>Swear I was the only goyim on line at MTB yesterday..... >>
whats a goyim? >>
Growing up on a street where my corner was "Little Poland," opposite "Little Italy," "Little Israel," and "Little Germany," ....you learn a lot of terms and euphanisms
Goyim, in historical perspective, means "nation." In modern terms, it's an affectionate term for non-Jewish folk.
<< <i>Another form that wants a SSN.
Are these guys trying to steal identities, too? Put up roadblocks? >>
Who wants that besides MTB and the Patriot Act form?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
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<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
Pretty strong words advocating "jail time" for someone who enjoys selling a few of these sets to buy other items for their collection. Coins are a luxury item, just like a rare painting or an expensive sports car and there should be no worries about anyone being deprived of one. After 50 years of coin collecting have fun with your, in your own words "investments"-------------------------------BigE >>
Strong words indeed and I stand by them.
There are times, few and possibly rare of occasion when elemental and basic fairness issues should take precedence over the "free" market. I would prosecute and jail anyone selling water and food at outrageous prices in an area devastated by a natural disaster for instance. Same for a generator during a wide spread power outage.
The pucks are the most unique numismatic "situation," in recent/modern American coinage. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic rarity. What we saw afterward by the AP's to begin with in selling them showed how "numismatic greed," exists. That the home shopping networks have a couple hundred to sell for over $4,000 is morally repugnant to me. Some folks are in "cahoots" with some others, somewhere and definitely, IMHO, against the figurative and literal directive of the Mint in this regard.
No kidding, if I were an ambitious Federal Prosecutor, I would be ALL OVER the home shopping networks for all the "hows and whys" as to their procurement etc. I'd put it to them like Spritzer used to do on Wall Street.
As I said, this is a unique situation, a true, once in a generation "one off." If you are fortunate enough to get a set and you want to flip it.....good on you and I hope you get moon money.....as long as you only get one set and followed the rules. OTOH if you're playing games with friends, relatives etc. getting extra sets for you....well, I'd like to RICO your sorry arse and think it should happen this time due to how every step along the way, the pucks have almost been predestined to be such a rarity. Even these first ones now may be the only 3 inch ones, which no one saw coming six months ago, to further their rarity.
We all talk about wanting to put coin doctors away and I'm all for it. Flippers, inherently, are not the same. However, with a special situation product whose sale has been mismanaged and compounded with errors at every step of the sales line and given the high public interest in wanting "one set," yeah, I'm all for a month or two in a country Club Fed for those who are trying to game the system in this particular case.
<< <i>The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic rarity. What we saw afterward by the AP's to begin with in selling them showed how "numismatic greed," exists. >>
Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.
There's plenty of greed to go around, that's for sure.
this year's proof fractional AGEs are about on the same level of rarity, too.
and these 5 oz silver coins at ~$180/ea are all going to collectors? Again, I openly question how many are really interested in the series.
Sorry, but the Mint produced these and set the initial issue price that sould apply to everyone. It's been the greedy games played by the APs to initially try for fat resale profits and now with their deliberately obtuse distribution policies/games that's causing a feeding frenzy.
If the entire mintage had hit the street at once, maybe the price would have doubled...maybe.
What we're seeing here is the result of too little active Mint involvement/control, not too much!
<< <i>Ive about given up on this circus sideshow...see ya all on the mint's release day. Better have 5 computers open or 5 pages open at the same time so you can add every single coin to your cart.
Doubt they will sell as a set on release day...you thought the UHR or Lincoln Chronicles was madness...you aint seen nothing yet. >>
What do you guys expect the US Mint to sell their sets at? I can only imagine the riot when they come out at 40% over spot...
<< <i>If the entire mintage had hit the street at once, maybe the price would have doubled...maybe. >>
..and the AP's would have had sales spread out among 9 of them. Now every separate for sale now announcement will produce the same feeding frenzy
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic rarity. What we saw afterward by the AP's to begin with in selling them showed how "numismatic greed," exists. >>
Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.
There's plenty of greed to go around, that's for sure. >>
It is a controlled and regulated market in this case, not a free market. Hence, those who want "just one personal set," are not economically greedy for their desire against being held up by AP's and flippers who have multiple sets.
<< <i>It's been the greedy games played by the APs to initially try for fat resale profits and now with their deliberately obtuse distribution policies/games that's causing a feeding frenzy. >>
I think you've got that backwards. Without demand (the feeding frenzy), it would not be possible for anyone to make fat resale profits.
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I forget what channel the vintage auto auction is on, once a week, on upper tier Fios but about a month ago, a vintage, literally "new" (less than 1,000 miles) Edsel went for over $150,000.
(and Leno didn't buy it)
Box of 20
Can anyone confirm this?
<< <i><<Well, that, along with the howls of outrage from those who want to buy a "true numismatic rarity" for an amount well under what the market is showing the current value to be.>>
Sorry, but the Mint produced these and set the initial issue price that sould apply to everyone. It's been the greedy games played by the APs to initially try for fat resale profits and now with their deliberately obtuse distribution policies/games that's causing a feeding frenzy.
If the entire mintage had hit the street at once, maybe the price would have doubled...maybe.
What we're seeing here is the result of too little active Mint involvement/control, not too much! >>
+ 1
<< <i>Regarding Gold Center:
One of my other Uncles went in to buy a set right before 2pm and was told personally that they only have about 30 of the 600 left.
He then pointed to the white boxes sitting behind which totaled around 30.
My sister did estimate that in the morning there were about 350 people there in line before she left.
I do not think it is a stretch that they sold 600 sets on Monday. >>
I don't know what time they closed but by my numbers I was approx # 51 in the door and that took 1 1/2 hours...They started at 10 am, and I got thrown out of the store with my box at 11:30ish...Thus if 50 took an hour and a half figure by 1:00 p.m. shoulda been at around 100 by my math, no way there coulda been 30 left outta 600 by 2 p.m.????
Stating that RICO, or racketeering statutes should apply to coin collectors, or comparing this situation to price gouging food and water to starving people during a hurricane is silly.
I think it is wrong to sell hundreds of these sets to home shopping outlets, but thats just my opinion
WINNING BID $ 31 + $ 10 SHIPPING = $ 41 >>
I actually wanted this item, but forgot to bid, and checked in on it 10 minutes after it closed! $41 was cheaper than I expected it to go for, but there are quite a few of these boxes out there with 165,000 coins being made. >>
So how many AMERICA-BEAUTIFUL-5-OZ-OUNCE coins would have come in that box? >>
Someone said 10 per container x 10 containers = 100 coins per box.
165,000 coins / 100 = 1,650 boxes to go around
1st box sold for $31.
Does anyone think there is going to be a market for empty America the Beautiful five-ounce Mint monster boxes? Only 1,650 to go around. Don't you think that anyone collecting these sets would also want a monter box also?
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<< <i>
<< <i>Just curious. Has any other U.S. Coin or Coin Set rocketed in price like the America The Beautiful 5 oz Silver Sets?
Coin Vault $3999, HSN $4799, Chattanooga Coin Inc. $3989, and now Jim Hausman - Owner of The Gold Center calling for $15,000 - $20,000/set valuations.
IMHO, EBAY Flippers need to hold on to their sets and drive the prices even higher. How High Can They Fly? >>
Sure, other items have gone to the moon. The Reverse proofs (both gold and silver) went crazy. I bought 13 sets of the gold and sold the raw sets for up to 5500. I sold single graded reverse proofs for up to 6000 when gold was 800 per ounce. >>
Way to go BigDaddy, one of the great things about the hobby is that it can be self-sustaining, thats what I tell the wife at least
After almost 50 years of collecting, I seldom go out on a limb, predicting "great things" for any coin... or set of coins.
In this case though, I think the future is very likely to go through the roof and, perhaps, touch the sky (one set per customer, kept in truthful mind), in terms of return on investment. These 33,000 sets, IMHO, are going to become the highest ROI coins of the early 21st Century. They will dwarf the 1999 silver state quarters and, perhaps, the Jackie Robinson and the MS bimetallic $10. coins. I have never predicted moon money for anything BUT....for the first time, I think these really have that long term potential. I know I have a set coming soon and I've already received e-mails offering me 4x to 5x what I paid...and that's without PCGS grading, either regular or First Strike.
No sale, I'm keeping these because I want to enjoy them. I'm not interesting in flipping or getting a second set. For every first class sh*t who gets a second set through dubious means, that takes one set away from an average person who just wants one set to put away for themselves. I'd prosecute any potential flipper who is/are using others to purchase multiple sets and I'd give them actual jail time to reinforce their understanding the errors of their ways.
Before anyone accuses me of being an "ist," (as in communist/socialist/etc.), I say "know your isms," first and foremost because I sure as hades do. I just want as many people as possible to have a fair chance at getting the one darn set they really want, and not for flipping, as opposed to those who think absolute greed is good in a post Gordon Gecko era. I'm a conservative Republican who was a Reagan convention delegate and my favorite of the upcoming candidates would likely P.O most people because how strongly conservative they are. I just want real, honest to goodness, fairness on something as unique as this set of hockey pucks. >>
While I believe you are NOT hyping these and you really feel that way I am not as convinced about moon money over the long haul. Yes, they are hot now but I could see that melting away somewhat. I could see these settling down to a reasonable premium that will be greater than the rest but at 33K population and probably all in the 66 to 69 range I don't see them in the same category as the other high priced moderns. Now if a PCGS 70 set comes up that could be different. >>
I understand your thinking. In response I'll ask you to consider two things. The first is that this may be the only set of hockey pucks to be 3.0 inches as the Mint now has the authority to make all the rest 2.5 inches in order to minimize mint problems. The second is to try and imagine waaayyy back when the the two $50. PanPacs were first offered. Short to medium term, I doubt many collectors thought they'd be whatever terminology they used for "moon money," in those days. Add the same amount of time to this very first, and very limited set....regardless of whether you have a PCGS MS 64 or 67 or 70 (winning PowerBall may be more likely)....and I think a similarly long range perspective can (and does) put these particular 5 pucks in that potential.....very strongly so, I believe. >>
tcmitssr-
Thanks for the great posts today!
I think that the main factor limiting future appreciation of the bullion pucks will be the numismatic pucks (it they're every issued). I think that the bullion pucks will always do well, but will live in the shadows of the numismatic version, which will likely be incredible. The numismatic version should be 3" as well. Your thoughts on this?
<< <i>
<< <i>Ive about given up on this circus sideshow...see ya all on the mint's release day. Better have 5 computers open or 5 pages open at the same time so you can add every single coin to your cart.
Doubt they will sell as a set on release day...you thought the UHR or Lincoln Chronicles was madness...you aint seen nothing yet. >>
What do you guys expect the US Mint to sell their sets at? I can only imagine the riot when they come out at 40% over spot... >>
This has been discussed repeatedly.
The mint sells ASE Proofs for a price and ASE bullion for a different price. They are different products with different costs, thus different prices.
.
I know, I know, that's water under the dam, but might it have worked?
.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>. The Mint blew it from the start and created what may be a real and true numismatic NOVELTY. >>
There. fixed it for ya.
Key word is "may".
Gigantic pucks. Monster slabs. Cartoon depictions of geysers, buffaloes and a Hot springs monument.
I only want a set to flip, not keep.
The Ford Edsel is rare, too, but you don't see that going for moon money today. >>
I'll bet that the talk in 1915 about the Pan Pac slugs was similar...