<< <i> There's no reason that HSN or similar couldn't have provided an AP with a list of names and addresses of hundreds of employees, along with order assignments where each purchaser directed the AP to send their order to HSN (i.e., drop ship) instead of them. I think an arrangement like that *may* have technically met the conditions. An AP would have gladly done that to reduce shipping and packaging effort.
>>
Let me take this a step further.
What if an order taken by HSN is a Household? HSN then approaches, (already has a deal with) an AP with a list of 500 HH, 1 per. I think this would be doable. I'm not much a believer that a company would mkae its employees purchase item for the show. >>
Since you put it out there, I will respond.
I have already suggested to the mint that this is how the big quantity pre-sellers are doing it.
On a side note, I've never seen a group of business's so incapable of conducting business. It's like they are so stressed from actually having to work. And the Jack Hunt site Has exclamation points all over it !!!!! What a joke.
I guess making $375,000 in profits, within a week, it just to much for them.
<< <i><< I would lighten up on MTB. They obviously never dealt with the public like this before. At least they are selling and be grateful for that. I would gladly pay their commission. I am still deciding whether I want to purchase from them. >>
I will absolutely NOT lighten up on them...in fact I've contacted both the Mint and Coin World's editors...I blew over 3 hours this morning, including a trip to the bank and $40 in cabfare to have a door slammed in my face!
No way, I was there, cash in hand as instructed...and they decided to close at 1:35 instead of 3:00 today, because "We just can't take it anymore?" WTF? Just to be clear, THEY LOCKED THEIR DOORS ON AT LEAST 40 PEOPLE who were waiting without any prior notice or announcements!
And then it comes out that they have been selling them to their select customers over the phone, despite the fact that we called from the line and asked and would have ordered them right then and there. AND then, when we asked if we could hand in our completed USA Patriot Act forms to expediate this suddenly magical account set-up...they said "No...and get out of our office!"
So, no way, no how am I cutting them any slack! They're scum....they run a sleazy outfit...and the Mint should drop them like hot potatos! >>
Also, for everyone's convenience, here's the email that was sent as a cover to these forms:
<< <i>Thank you for your call. Attached to this email are two PDF files One contains our patriot act form, please complete this and send it back along with a clear copy of a valid driver license or passport. It would be best if you can scan your ID and email it, as opposed to faxing. If you do not have scanning capabilities, please mail your patriot act form and clear photocopy of your ID to: Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Once we have that we can open an account for you and we can proceed. Also attached is our wiring instructions, please do NOT send us any funds until we open an account for you. As I explained over the phone, after you have an account, you would need to wire us the funds prior to locking in a trade. If you need additional premiums on coins and bars, please feel free to ask. There is a 1% commission on the total of your order + any shipping fees. We are located in the financial district in downtown Manhattan, so if you are in NYC you are welcome to pick up your order to save on shipping charges. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please feel free to contact me via email or via phone 212.981.4550 Best Regards Trading Desk Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc. 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Tel. 212.981.4515 Fax.212.981.4545 >>
Wiring instructions will be provided if requested via PM.
Also, for everyone's convenience, here's the email that was sent as a cover to these forms:
<< <i>Thank you for your call. Attached to this email are two PDF files One contains our patriot act form, please complete this and send it back along with a clear copy of a valid driver license or passport. It would be best if you can scan your ID and email it, as opposed to faxing. If you do not have scanning capabilities, please mail your patriot act form and clear photocopy of your ID to: Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Once we have that we can open an account for you and we can proceed. Also attached is our wiring instructions, please do NOT send us any funds until we open an account for you. As I explained over the phone, after you have an account, you would need to wire us the funds prior to locking in a trade. If you need additional premiums on coins and bars, please feel free to ask. There is a 1% commission on the total of your order + any shipping fees. We are located in the financial district in downtown Manhattan, so if you are in NYC you are welcome to pick up your order to save on shipping charges. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please feel free to contact me via email or via phone 212.981.4550 Best Regards Trading Desk Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc. 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Tel. 212.981.4515 Fax.212.981.4545 >>
>>
Thanks, JohnnyUtah. Good to see lots of cooperation in this forum helping each other out!
<< <i>On a side note, I've never seen a group of business's so incapable of conducting business. It's like they are so stressed from actually having to work. And the Jack Hunt site Has exclamation points all over it !!!!! What a joke.
I guess making $375,000 in profits, within a week, it just to much for them. >>
Those "incapable" businesses handled in excess of $1billion in US Mint bullion sales alone in 2010. Those AP's not geared for retail sales, should have never accepted to sell the pucks to the public under the existing Mints modified conditions.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Northwest Territorial Mint is not carrying these. I just got an email. I mistakenly thought they were an AP also. >>
Would you be so kind as to post the content of the email received? I know they are not an AP for these items, but are for the monster boxes of ASE. I got on their list for the ATB a couple of weeks ago when they said they were going to offer them, probably at a higher rate as they have to get them from an AP. I called them on Friday and they said they would soon be selling them. I have not gotten an email from them stating they would not be selling them.
Do we think MTB will accept these forms just being faxed over without any previous call, I got through right after they stopped sales for the day and didn't get my name in. Are they going to see these forms coming in from people who never called and not accept them? I wonder if I should just call again tomorrow, I feel like i'm kind of going behind their back if I do this.
Also, for everyone's convenience, here's the email that was sent as a cover to these forms:
<< <i>Thank you for your call. Attached to this email are two PDF files One contains our patriot act form, please complete this and send it back along with a clear copy of a valid driver license or passport. It would be best if you can scan your ID and email it, as opposed to faxing. If you do not have scanning capabilities, please mail your patriot act form and clear photocopy of your ID to: Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Once we have that we can open an account for you and we can proceed. Also attached is our wiring instructions, please do NOT send us any funds until we open an account for you. As I explained over the phone, after you have an account, you would need to wire us the funds prior to locking in a trade. If you need additional premiums on coins and bars, please feel free to ask. There is a 1% commission on the total of your order + any shipping fees. We are located in the financial district in downtown Manhattan, so if you are in NYC you are welcome to pick up your order to save on shipping charges. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please feel free to contact me via email or via phone 212.981.4550 Best Regards Trading Desk Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc. 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Tel. 212.981.4515 Fax.212.981.4545 >>
>>
Thanks, JohnnyUtah. Good to see lots of cooperation in this forum helping each other out! >>
<< <i>Northwest Territorial Mint is not carrying these. I just got an email. I mistakenly thought they were an AP also. >>
Would be so kind as to post the content of the email received? I know they are not an AP for these items, but are for the monster boxes of ASE. I got on their list for the ATB a couple of weeks ago when they said they were going to offer them, probably at a higher rate as they have to get them from an AP. I called them on Friday and they said they would soon be selling them. I have not gotten an email from them stating they would not be selling them.
Thanks. >>
NTW obtains their monster boxes from an AP & not directly from the Mint.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Do we think MTB will accept these forms just being faxed over without any previous call, I got through right after they stopped sales for the day and didn't get my name in. Are they going to see these forms coming in from people who never called and not accept them? I wonder if I should just call again tomorrow, I feel like i'm kind of going behind their back if I do this. >>
That is up to MTB. They may not want us sending in forms without first being instructed to do so.
My recommendation is DO NOT send in the forms until instructed to do so.
I'd keep trying to call or e-mail and just tell them you have the forms all ready to e-mail once contact is made. It'll speed the process at least that much.
My recommendation is DO NOT send in the forms until instructed to do so.
(Another fear is overloading their mail server(s).)
<<Nothing MTB has done rises past poor customer service. This is not something to contact the mint over. >>
Of course, you got there earlier than I and got your coins from them. Fortunate that you were not still stuck in line 3+ hours later when it all went into the crapper. Then you might not be as forgiving.
But not to worry...since MTB only sold about 50 sets OTC today...and weren't supposed to be taking phone orders for most of the day...HA HA HA...they should have at least 2,950 sets left at 9AM tomorrow, right? And since they're unable to handle even a trickle of people in person, I'm just sure they'll just dive right in and process everyone's faxed forms, right?
<< <i>NTW obtains their monster boxes from an AP & not directly from the Mint. >>
Thanks. Did not know that. They must not make much on the ASEs, because every time I order a monster box from them, it is only $2-3 over spot, and that was before silver started its run. Not much of a mark up. I thought they were an ASE AP because they are listed on the Mints website, and since the premium on their monsters are so low.
<< <i>But not to worry...since MTB only sold about 50 sets OTC today...and weren't supposed to be taking phone orders for most of the day...HA HA HA...they should have at least 2,950 sets left at 9AM tomorrow, right? And since they're unable to handle even a trickle of people in person, I'm just sure they'll just dive right in and process everyone's faxed forms, right? >>
RichR, MTB also probably sold a bunch by EMAIL today... refer to my prior post, I was one of them.
<< <i>Ok, but realize that this is a set that now has a maximum amount of sets that can be completed @ 33,000.
Low mintage is readily excepted as a value driver in other issues (How about $130 oz for Lincoln Chronicles?), why not this one? >>
Even higher as commems are 90% silver. So, it's more like $143/oz.
However, there are things to consider: 1) these aren't Lincoln 2) don't come with the copper cents 3) are part of a longer series 4) the total price is more than just $130/set
<< <i>Not sure you should post this on a public forum with the APs routing numbers. It may be prudent to remove the above post. >>
pf70collector: These are almost certainly zero balance accounts set up to receive money from customers, and swept every day. Many PM dealers publish the account and routing numbers for these receiving accounts right on their websites. Example
I don't want to hurt MTB in any way, but I also want forum members to have access to relevant information. Unless someone has facts to support the confidentiality of MTB's wiring instructions, or there is a consensus to remove the PDF, I'm leaving it up.
<< <i><<Nothing MTB has done rises past poor customer service. This is not something to contact the mint over. >>
Of course, you got there earlier than I and got your coins from them. Fortunate that you were not still stuck in line 3+ hours later when it all went into the crapper. Then you might not be as forgiving.
But not to worry...since MTB only sold about 50 sets OTC today...and weren't supposed to be taking phone orders for most of the day...HA HA HA...they should have at least 2,950 sets left at 9AM tomorrow, right? And since they're unable to handle even a trickle of people in person, I'm just sure they'll just dive right in and process everyone's faxed forms, right?
Nothing underhanded going on at MTB. >>
I was on the phone for over 1.5 hours and getting hung up on(?) several times. (I'm not sure if they weren't selectively taking calls from other customers) (Sometimes they picked up and I was cut-off. I'm not sure. I didn't hear the phone go back down.) (They were always friendly.)
They took my order over the phone. Of course, I had a funded account already open with them. So, perhaps that is why I was able to place a phone order.... eventually. (I even tried leading with ""I have a funded account"" and didn't tell them what the order was for and was still cut off.)
I was a little irate at what I thought was getting hung up upon, but eventually I got through.
Doesn't anyone think this is like ordering directly from the mint at noon???? Why is everyone very bent about this when, as many would suggest, if the mint did it, we'd all be complaining about busy signals and the servers crashing.
They seem to be playing by the rules. They should have "walk-in ticket" system like the Gold Center did. Perhaps you can suggest it.
I think this is more "poor customer service and poor planning" and not underhandedness.
What they did was terrible customer service and should never have been done, but even you admit that some sets were sold. I don't think it is sneaky, just... ahem... crappy.
<< <i>Doesn't anyone think this is like ordering directly from the mint at noon???? Why is everyone very bent about this when, as many would suggest, if the mint did it, we'd all be complaining about busy signals and the servers crashing >>
Difference would be that with the MINT EVENTUALLY you would be able to get through, order and get a confirmation number. No wondering "Did they get my email"", "Did they get the forms I emailed back? "What's next, can I send my check?"
..and the Mint wouldn't have closed early
Yes, the eventual wait for delivery would probably be the same....
<< <i>Has anyone recieved an alert message from Apmex?? >>
I called them about that today and they said "no." They "hoped" they may be selling some more, later this week but were unsure as of early this afternoon.
<< <i>Doesn't anyone think this is like ordering directly from the mint at noon???? Why is everyone very bent about this when, as many would suggest, if the mint did it, we'd all be complaining about busy signals and the servers crashing >>
Difference would be that with the MINT EVENTUALLY you would be able to get through, order and get a confirmation number. No wondering "Did they get my email"", "Did they get the forms I emailed back? "What's next, can I send my check?"
..and the Mint wouldn't have closed early
Yes, the eventual wait for delivery would probably be the same.... >>
OK.
but that is still just poor planning and execution.
I'm not saying they are conspirators because of it.
<< <i>Has anyone recieved an alert message from Apmex?? >>
I called them about that today and they said "no." They "hoped" they may be selling some more, later this week but were unsure as of early this afternoon. >>
Sounds like the same story week after week. What's the holdup?
How about you all stop calling them so they can "get ready" to sell them? As soon as they send out the first email or make the first call I'm sure we'll know about it on here.
<< <i>How about you all stop calling them so they can "get ready" to sell them? As soon as they send out the first email or make the first call I'm sure we'll know about it on here. >>
<< <i>Has anyone recieved an alert message from Apmex?? >>
I called them about that today and they said "no." They "hoped" they may be selling some more, later this week but were unsure as of early this afternoon. >>
Didnt APMEX say they were selling today 1/3/10? Just when you thought they were going to finally come around and redeem themselves above all the other AP's. I guess not...
<< <i>What is with the $25 commission MTB is charging? The 10% profit is in the coin price ($860), so are they violating their agreement? Do we need to call the Mint and put a stop to this gouging? >>
They charge 1% commission to all retail customers. They have before this and they are for this. >>
I don't see how an additional 3% profit is allowed. Just calling it a commission does not change the fact that they are over-charging on their sets
<< <i>What is with the $25 commission MTB is charging? The 10% profit is in the coin price ($860), so are they violating their agreement? Do we need to call the Mint and put a stop to this gouging? >>
They charge 1% commission to all retail customers. They have before this and they are for this. >>
I don't see how an additional 3% profit is allowed. Just calling it a commission does not change the fact that they are over-charging on their sets >>
I don't see why they can't charge that as that is something they always charge retail customers.
All orders for these coins are sold on a 5 month interest free layaway program only . Also, because of the huge volatility of the market, no cancellations will be accepted.
The present sales price of $3,989 per set may be substantially different in months to come therefore the buyer must be prepared to accept the risks associated with the rapidly changing prices.
Woohooooo back from springfield, it wasn't as bad as i expected, looking at around 150 to 200 people met some dealers heading to the fun show. The sets were in fact 975.00 1 per household. Funny the crowd was alright as this one couple started a list to try and keep people from sneaking in line. It work mostly there were those few who got hammered for trying to sneak in while others just blended in, than around 930 someone came thru the line passing out red slips with numbers. Only 5 people were allowed inside at a time, CASH OR Bank draft check no credit cards. So while standing in line the owner and the police come up and ask if anyone here is from manpower, well about 6 or 7 people behind me appartently had been hired by someone and got caught all were kicked out of the line. Now all around me were the flippers it was totally funny was offered 2 grand for the set twice. The two dealers were by themselves, and we all got a good laugh when one guy who was clearly having people walk to his van after they came out, apparently that is agaisnt the law. So the cops went over with i think the owner and had a word with those boys..... It was cold and it was fun and now i have my one set and I"M DONE. Wish all of you who have NOT yet gotten a set alot of luck. Hopefully this week you will all beable to find them. As far as the other 2700 sets springfield didnt sell today, your guess is a good as mine where they will end up. They did do a copy of driver license................... >>
Also they did block off the whole parking lot and we were not allowed on the property till 10, stay off the grass lol it was still not bad and glad i am done..............
The ATB link on the Amark page now directs you to another website with a message that says the pucks will be available mid-month. No details, just a "filler" page, I'm sure, until they can get some beef behind it. Hopefully it will be a full online ordering process that does not require a phone call...
<< <i>What is with the $25 commission MTB is charging? The 10% profit is in the coin price ($860), so are they violating their agreement? Do we need to call the Mint and put a stop to this gouging? >>
They charge 1% commission to all retail customers. They have before this and they are for this. >>
I don't see how an additional 3% profit is allowed. Just calling it a commission does not change the fact that they are over-charging on their sets >>
I don't see why they can't charge that as that is something they always charge retail customers. >>
2. Authorized Purchasers may charge to their customers a price no higher than ten percent above the price at which the Authorized Purchasers acquire 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins from the United States Mint. Authorized Purchasers may charge their customers a reasonable shipping and handling fee; however, Authorized Purchasers may not charge any other fee, premium, or other expense to their customers to circumvent this ten-percent markup limitation. The intention of this condition is to ensure that members of the public can obtain these coins at a reasonable and affordable purchase price.
Seems a commission would violate this part of the revised regulations
I took a chance and went there in MTB on my lunch break today...spent a fortune in cab fares back and forth and when i got to their walk in i saw a bunch of Hasidms there and for a second i thought i was in the set of Yently just waiting for Barbara Streisand to show up and break out a song... Nearly a dozen of them were ahead of me in the line then more came and were standing behind me. I said Great im definitely going to be able to buy a set with these guys here....Then i heared one of them say to their collegues who just arrived behind me that they were there for about 1hour 30 minutes waiting and still counting...All my time standing there i never saw even a Shadow of an MTB employee so i decided to just leave and from what i have read in this thread i made the right call since they turned folks away later? MTB is a long established precious metals seller who used to have a branch in Rockefeller center in Midtown Manhattan. Where folks from the street can just walk in and buy precious metals....I bought from them one time a very long time ago tubes of Silver Eagles and they are more than capable of selling to the public IF they want to...I don't know why they can't do the same for the ATB's for those of us who were waiting in their establishment today with cash in hand...What gives MTB?
The major problem with MTB is that through the magic of cell phones, people were calling FROM THE LINE and being repeatedly told that sets were not being sold via phone or internet or through any means other than in person...AND WE EVEN HAD THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE US THE INFO.
And then they lock us out and tell us to essentially get to the back of the bus tomorrow?!?
And to top it all off, they then tell us that personal checks are being accepted...so we offered them directly to the big mouth doing the talking and he refused to take it....therefore, the nameless, faceless future callers would also take precedence over everyone left standing there like idiots.
So yes, MTB deserves a big, fat foot up their a**...and that's my bottom line.
AND I'll say this about the Mint, regardless of their incompetence, I never feel like they're double-dealing to friends and families out the back door. With the APs...not so much!
<< <i>I just got back after my unsuccessful trip to MTB. I got there around 1:30pm. There were anywhere from 40-50 people ahead of me on line, prolly 30 of whom had black hats & long black coats (not ONE of them collectors). They were milling about, ignoring instructions to form a polite and quiet line and generally were a nuisance to everyone else patiently waiting. At 1:50pm or so, a gentleman from MTB came out and said sales were done for the day and to call in the morning. It was obvious to me that this was a result of the disturbances in the lobby by these gentlemen on line.
As I was waiting... one of them asked what the line was for (as he was standing on line!!!!!!) and got right on his Blackberry to contact the rest of his troops to come down and get some sets.
Of the 40-50 people on line, I'd guess that no more than 10% there were collectors... the rest were there for the profits.
Almost reminded me of the Ferengie from Star Trek.... except the Ferengie are far more polite. >>
Now THAT is one, incredible story!
Frickin flippers.....this is one time I would, seriously, consider suggesting criminal prosecution and a couple of weeks in a jail cell for the whole lot of them. YEAH, I MEAN IT TOO!!!
Time(S!) would be a better question. I bugged the hades out of them almost all morning. 3 emails (confirmed) and 3 faxes (confirmed) minimum. Calls as well. When the salesman sent me a confirmation of the sale at 3:30 PM EST, he told me that they were swamped beyond anything they had ever imagined and apologized greatly for taking so long.
<< <i>The major problem with MTB is that through the magic of cell phones, people were calling FROM THE LINE and being repeatedly told that sets were not being sold via phone or internet or through any means other than in person...AND WE EVEN HAD THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE US THE INFO.
And then they lock us out and tell us to essentially get to the back of the bus tomorrow?!?
And to top it all off, they then tell us that personal checks are being accepted...so we offered them directly to the big mouth doing the talking and he refused to take it....therefore, the nameless, faceless future callers would also take precedence over everyone left standing there like idiots.
So yes, MTB deserves a big, fat foot up their a**...and that's my bottom line.
AND I'll say this about the Mint, regardless of their incompetence, I never feel like they're double-dealing to friends and families out the back door. With the APs...not so much! >>
Well, I don't know where the leaks to HSN, CSN, tCV, etc are coming from, but they are coming from the APs.
It is quite ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever what happened. It's like they've never done walk-in business before.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
There's no reason that HSN or similar couldn't have provided an AP with a list of names and addresses of hundreds of employees, along with order assignments where each purchaser directed the AP to send their order to HSN (i.e., drop ship) instead of them. I think an arrangement like that *may* have technically met the conditions. An AP would have gladly done that to reduce shipping and packaging effort.
>>
Let me take this a step further.
What if an order taken by HSN is a Household? HSN then approaches, (already has a deal with) an AP with a list of 500 HH, 1 per. I think this would be doable. I'm not much a believer that a company would mkae its employees purchase item for the show. >>
Since you put it out there, I will respond.
I have already suggested to the mint that this is how the big quantity pre-sellers are doing it.
I guess making $375,000 in profits, within a week, it just to much for them.
<< <i><< I would lighten up on MTB. They obviously never dealt with the public like this before. At least they are selling and be grateful for that. I would gladly pay their commission. I am still deciding whether I want to purchase from them. >>
I will absolutely NOT lighten up on them...in fact I've contacted both the Mint and Coin World's editors...I blew over 3 hours this morning, including a trip to the bank and $40 in cabfare to have a door slammed in my face!
No way, I was there, cash in hand as instructed...and they decided to close at 1:35 instead of 3:00 today, because "We just can't take it anymore?" WTF? Just to be clear, THEY LOCKED THEIR DOORS ON AT LEAST 40 PEOPLE who were waiting without any prior notice or announcements!
And then it comes out that they have been selling them to their select customers over the phone, despite the fact that we called from the line and asked and would have ordered them right then and there. AND then, when we asked if we could hand in our completed USA Patriot Act forms to expediate this suddenly magical account set-up...they said "No...and get out of our office!"
So, no way, no how am I cutting them any slack! They're scum....they run a sleazy outfit...and the Mint should drop them like hot potatos! >>
atrociously poor customer service.
but not Mint Contact worthy.
not sleazy either. just poorly executed.
Click here for the Patriot Act form.
Click here for the wiring instructions.
Also, for everyone's convenience, here's the email that was sent as a cover to these forms:
<< <i>Thank you for your call. Attached to this email are two PDF files One contains our patriot act form, please complete this and send it back along with a clear copy of a valid driver license or passport. It would be best if you can scan your ID and email it, as opposed to faxing. If you do not have scanning capabilities, please mail your patriot act form and clear photocopy of your ID to: Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Once we have that we can open an account for you and we can proceed. Also attached is our wiring instructions, please do NOT send us any funds until we open an account for you. As I explained over the phone, after you have an account, you would need to wire us the funds prior to locking in a trade. If you need additional premiums on coins and bars, please feel free to ask. There is a 1% commission on the total of your order + any shipping fees. We are located in the financial district in downtown Manhattan, so if you are in NYC you are welcome to pick up your order to save on shipping charges. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please feel free to contact me via email or via phone 212.981.4550 Best Regards Trading Desk Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc. 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Tel. 212.981.4515 Fax.212.981.4545 >>
<< <i>Thanks to coasterfan, I was able to host the MTB forms and anyone interested can now download them.
Click here for the Patriot Act form.
Wiring instructions will be provided if requested via PM.
Also, for everyone's convenience, here's the email that was sent as a cover to these forms:
<< <i>Thank you for your call. Attached to this email are two PDF files One contains our patriot act form, please complete this and send it back along with a clear copy of a valid driver license or passport. It would be best if you can scan your ID and email it, as opposed to faxing. If you do not have scanning capabilities, please mail your patriot act form and clear photocopy of your ID to: Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Once we have that we can open an account for you and we can proceed. Also attached is our wiring instructions, please do NOT send us any funds until we open an account for you. As I explained over the phone, after you have an account, you would need to wire us the funds prior to locking in a trade. If you need additional premiums on coins and bars, please feel free to ask. There is a 1% commission on the total of your order + any shipping fees. We are located in the financial district in downtown Manhattan, so if you are in NYC you are welcome to pick up your order to save on shipping charges. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please feel free to contact me via email or via phone 212.981.4550 Best Regards Trading Desk Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc. 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Tel. 212.981.4515 Fax.212.981.4545 >>
>>
Thanks, JohnnyUtah. Good to see lots of cooperation in this forum helping each other out!
Edited to remove wiring instructions link.
Box of 20
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>On a side note, I've never seen a group of business's so incapable of conducting business. It's like they are so stressed from actually having to work. And the Jack Hunt site Has exclamation points all over it !!!!! What a joke.
I guess making $375,000 in profits, within a week, it just to much for them. >>
Those "incapable" businesses handled in excess of $1billion in US Mint bullion sales alone in 2010. Those AP's not geared for retail sales, should have never accepted to sell the pucks to the public under the existing Mints modified conditions.
<< <i>Northwest Territorial Mint is not carrying these. I just got an email. I mistakenly thought they were an AP also. >>
Would you be so kind as to post the content of the email received?
I know they are not an AP for these items, but are for the monster boxes of ASE.
I got on their list for the ATB a couple of weeks ago when they said they were going
to offer them, probably at a higher rate as they have to get them from an AP.
I called them on Friday and they said they would soon be selling them.
I have not gotten an email from them stating they would not be selling them.
Thanks.
<< <i>SPRINGFIELD ALL SOLD OUT. >>
UFB
And note the date of that e-mail to me was December 1st.
send form and DL scan.
fund account.
place order.
1 % commission with minimum of $25.
This is just how they've done business all along.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks to coasterfan, I was able to host the MTB forms and anyone interested can now download them.
Click here for the Patriot Act form.
Click here for the wiring instructions.
Also, for everyone's convenience, here's the email that was sent as a cover to these forms:
<< <i>Thank you for your call. Attached to this email are two PDF files One contains our patriot act form, please complete this and send it back along with a clear copy of a valid driver license or passport. It would be best if you can scan your ID and email it, as opposed to faxing. If you do not have scanning capabilities, please mail your patriot act form and clear photocopy of your ID to: Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Once we have that we can open an account for you and we can proceed. Also attached is our wiring instructions, please do NOT send us any funds until we open an account for you. As I explained over the phone, after you have an account, you would need to wire us the funds prior to locking in a trade. If you need additional premiums on coins and bars, please feel free to ask. There is a 1% commission on the total of your order + any shipping fees. We are located in the financial district in downtown Manhattan, so if you are in NYC you are welcome to pick up your order to save on shipping charges. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please feel free to contact me via email or via phone 212.981.4550 Best Regards Trading Desk Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc. 90 Broad Street New York, NY 10004 Tel. 212.981.4515 Fax.212.981.4545 >>
>>
Thanks, JohnnyUtah. Good to see lots of cooperation in this forum helping each other out!
<< <i>
<< <i>Northwest Territorial Mint is not carrying these. I just got an email. I mistakenly thought they were an AP also. >>
Would be so kind as to post the content of the email received?
I know they are not an AP for these items, but are for the monster boxes of ASE.
I got on their list for the ATB a couple of weeks ago when they said they were going
to offer them, probably at a higher rate as they have to get them from an AP.
I called them on Friday and they said they would soon be selling them.
I have not gotten an email from them stating they would not be selling them.
Thanks. >>
NTW obtains their monster boxes from an AP & not directly from the Mint.
Good Morning,
Apparently, as of last Friday, we will not be carrying these coins due to the restrictions set by the US Mint.
I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you.
Thank you.
Box of 20
<< <i>
<< <i>SPRINGFIELD ALL SOLD OUT. >>
I'm sure the Mint will request a list. This will be interesting.
How do you sell 3000+ sets in 8 hours, to walk ins? That's 375 sets an hour or 6.25 a minute.
3500 !! >>
Perhaps one of the walkins was from HSN with a list of 2500 employees and their home address info, etc.....
<< <i>Do we think MTB will accept these forms just being faxed over without any previous call, I got through right after they stopped sales for the day and didn't get my name in. Are they going to see these forms coming in from people who never called and not accept them? I wonder if I should just call again tomorrow, I feel like i'm kind of going behind their back if I do this. >>
That is up to MTB. They may not want us sending in forms without first being instructed to do so.
My recommendation is DO NOT send in the forms until instructed to do so.
I'd keep trying to call or e-mail and just tell them you have the forms all ready to e-mail once contact is made. It'll speed the process at least that much.
My recommendation is DO NOT send in the forms until instructed to do so.
(Another fear is overloading their mail server(s).)
Of course, you got there earlier than I and got your coins from them. Fortunate that you were not still stuck in line 3+ hours later when it all went into the crapper. Then you might not be as forgiving.
But not to worry...since MTB only sold about 50 sets OTC today...and weren't supposed to be taking phone orders for most of the day...HA HA HA...they should have at least 2,950 sets left at 9AM tomorrow, right? And since they're unable to handle even a trickle of people in person, I'm just sure they'll just dive right in and process everyone's faxed forms, right?
Nothing underhanded going on at MTB.
<< <i>NTW obtains their monster boxes from an AP & not directly from the Mint. >>
Thanks. Did not know that. They must not make much on the ASEs, because
every time I order a monster box from them, it is only $2-3 over spot, and that was before silver started its run.
Not much of a mark up. I thought they were an ASE AP because they are
listed on the Mints website, and since the premium on their monsters are so
low.
<< <i>But not to worry...since MTB only sold about 50 sets OTC today...and weren't supposed to be taking phone orders for most of the day...HA HA HA...they should have at least 2,950 sets left at 9AM tomorrow, right? And since they're unable to handle even a trickle of people in person, I'm just sure they'll just dive right in and process everyone's faxed forms, right? >>
RichR, MTB also probably sold a bunch by EMAIL today... refer to my prior post, I was one of them.
<< <i>Ok, but realize that this is a set that now has a maximum amount of sets that can be completed @ 33,000.
Low mintage is readily excepted as a value driver in other issues (How about $130 oz for Lincoln Chronicles?), why not this one? >>
Even higher as commems are 90% silver. So, it's more like $143/oz.
However, there are things to consider:
1) these aren't Lincoln
2) don't come with the copper cents
3) are part of a longer series
4) the total price is more than just $130/set
<< <i>Not sure you should post this on a public forum with the APs routing numbers. It may be prudent to remove the above post. >>
pf70collector: These are almost certainly zero balance accounts set up to receive money from customers, and swept every day. Many PM dealers publish the account and routing numbers for these receiving accounts right on their websites. Example
I don't want to hurt MTB in any way, but I also want forum members to have access to relevant information. Unless someone has facts to support the confidentiality of MTB's wiring instructions, or there is a consensus to remove the PDF, I'm leaving it up.
<< <i><<Nothing MTB has done rises past poor customer service. This is not something to contact the mint over. >>
Of course, you got there earlier than I and got your coins from them. Fortunate that you were not still stuck in line 3+ hours later when it all went into the crapper. Then you might not be as forgiving.
But not to worry...since MTB only sold about 50 sets OTC today...and weren't supposed to be taking phone orders for most of the day...HA HA HA...they should have at least 2,950 sets left at 9AM tomorrow, right? And since they're unable to handle even a trickle of people in person, I'm just sure they'll just dive right in and process everyone's faxed forms, right?
Nothing underhanded going on at MTB. >>
I was on the phone for over 1.5 hours and getting hung up on(?) several times.
(I'm not sure if they weren't selectively taking calls from other customers)
(Sometimes they picked up and I was cut-off. I'm not sure. I didn't hear the phone go back down.)
(They were always friendly.)
They took my order over the phone. Of course, I had a funded account already open with them. So, perhaps that is why I was able to place a phone order.... eventually.
(I even tried leading with ""I have a funded account"" and didn't tell them what the order was for and was still cut off.)
I was a little irate at what I thought was getting hung up upon, but eventually I got through.
Doesn't anyone think this is like ordering directly from the mint at noon???? Why is everyone very bent about this when, as many would suggest, if the mint did it, we'd all be complaining about busy signals and the servers crashing.
They seem to be playing by the rules. They should have "walk-in ticket" system like the Gold Center did. Perhaps you can suggest it.
I think this is more "poor customer service and poor planning" and not underhandedness.
What they did was terrible customer service and should never have been done, but even you admit that some sets were sold. I don't think it is sneaky, just... ahem... crappy.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>Doesn't anyone think this is like ordering directly from the mint at noon???? Why is everyone very bent about this when, as many would suggest, if the mint did it, we'd all be complaining about busy signals and the servers crashing >>
Difference would be that with the MINT EVENTUALLY you would be able to get through, order and get a confirmation number. No wondering "Did they get my email"", "Did they get the forms I emailed back? "What's next, can I send my check?"
..and the Mint wouldn't have closed early
Yes, the eventual wait for delivery would probably be the same....
<< <i>Has anyone recieved an alert message from Apmex?? >>
I called them about that today and they said "no." They "hoped" they may be selling some more, later this week but were unsure as of early this afternoon.
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't anyone think this is like ordering directly from the mint at noon???? Why is everyone very bent about this when, as many would suggest, if the mint did it, we'd all be complaining about busy signals and the servers crashing >>
Difference would be that with the MINT EVENTUALLY you would be able to get through, order and get a confirmation number. No wondering "Did they get my email"", "Did they get the forms I emailed back? "What's next, can I send my check?"
..and the Mint wouldn't have closed early
Yes, the eventual wait for delivery would probably be the same.... >>
OK.
but that is still just poor planning and execution.
I'm not saying they are conspirators because of it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone recieved an alert message from Apmex?? >>
I called them about that today and they said "no." They "hoped" they may be selling some more, later this week but were unsure as of early this afternoon. >>
Sounds like the same story week after week. What's the holdup?
<< <i>How about you all stop calling them so they can "get ready" to sell them? As soon as they send out the first email or make the first call I'm sure we'll know about it on here. >>
I'll call and ask that's a good idea.
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone recieved an alert message from Apmex?? >>
I called them about that today and they said "no." They "hoped" they may be selling some more, later this week but were unsure as of early this afternoon. >>
Didnt APMEX say they were selling today 1/3/10? Just when you thought they were going to finally come around and redeem themselves above all the other AP's. I guess not...
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>What is with the $25 commission MTB is charging? The 10% profit is in the coin price ($860), so are they violating their agreement? Do we need to call the Mint and put a stop to this gouging? >>
They charge 1% commission to all retail customers. They have before this and they are for this. >>
I don't see how an additional 3% profit is allowed. Just calling it a commission does not change the fact that they are over-charging on their sets
<< <i>"I feel like I got the short end of the bar of soap in a prison shower!!!" >>
Best one-liner that pretty well captures the moment..........
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Another bargain for only $3989.
LINK
<< <i>Anybody heared from 1Tommy who lined up in GoldLine since Sat? Did he get a set? >>
Yep, he got a set. His post is the third one on page 172.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What is with the $25 commission MTB is charging? The 10% profit is in the coin price ($860), so are they violating their agreement? Do we need to call the Mint and put a stop to this gouging? >>
They charge 1% commission to all retail customers. They have before this and they are for this. >>
I don't see how an additional 3% profit is allowed. Just calling it a commission does not change the fact that they are over-charging on their sets >>
I don't see why they can't charge that as that is something they always charge retail customers.
<< <i>Another bargain for only $3989.
LINK >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Another bargain for only $3989.
LINK >>
>>
maybe they will buy them 1 at a time from eBay.
All orders for these coins are sold on a 5 month interest free layaway program only . Also, because of the huge volatility of the market, no cancellations will be accepted.
The present sales price of $3,989 per set may be substantially different in months to come therefore the buyer must be prepared to accept the risks associated with the rapidly changing prices.
<< <i>
<< <i>What word from Springpatch? >>
Woohooooo back from springfield, it wasn't as bad as i expected, looking at around 150 to 200 people met some dealers heading to the fun show. The sets were in fact 975.00 1 per household. Funny the crowd was alright as this one couple started a list to try and keep people from sneaking in line. It work mostly there were those few who got hammered for trying to sneak in while others just blended in, than around 930 someone came thru the line passing out red slips with numbers. Only 5 people were allowed inside at a time, CASH OR Bank draft check no credit cards. So while standing in line the owner and the police come up and ask if anyone here is from manpower, well about 6 or 7 people behind me appartently had been hired by someone and got caught all were kicked out of the line. Now all around me were the flippers it was totally funny was offered 2 grand for the set twice. The two dealers were by themselves, and we all got a good laugh when one guy who was clearly having people walk to his van after they came out, apparently that is agaisnt the law. So the cops went over with i think the owner and had a word with those boys..... It was cold and it was fun and now i have my one set and I"M DONE. Wish all of you who have NOT yet gotten a set alot of luck. Hopefully this week you will all beable to find them. As far as the other 2700 sets springfield didnt sell today, your guess is a good as mine where they will end up. They did do a copy of driver license...................
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>What is with the $25 commission MTB is charging? The 10% profit is in the coin price ($860), so are they violating their agreement? Do we need to call the Mint and put a stop to this gouging? >>
They charge 1% commission to all retail customers. They have before this and they are for this. >>
I don't see how an additional 3% profit is allowed. Just calling it a commission does not change the fact that they are over-charging on their sets >>
I don't see why they can't charge that as that is something they always charge retail customers. >>
2. Authorized Purchasers may charge to their customers a price no higher than ten percent above the price at which the Authorized Purchasers acquire 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins from the United States Mint. Authorized Purchasers may charge their customers a reasonable shipping and handling fee; however, Authorized Purchasers may not charge any other fee, premium, or other expense to their customers to circumvent this ten-percent markup limitation. The intention of this condition is to ensure that members of the public can obtain these coins at a reasonable and affordable purchase price.
Seems a commission would violate this part of the revised regulations
<< <i>Just emailed back my Patriot form & passport scan to MTB, asked them to reply with payment instructions and they returned a sales confirmation.
$860 for the set
$45 Freight
$25 Commission
"Please make checks payable to Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc.
We hold personal checks for 17 calendar days.
As I mentioned, we are still waiting for the capsules to arrive, I will let you know when it will ship" >>
Anyone know if/how these will qualify for PCGS First Strike if they really take 4-6 weeks? Can we open the box to take a look at the coins first?
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>Just emailed back my Patriot form & passport scan to MTB, asked them to reply with payment instructions and they returned a sales confirmation.
$860 for the set
$45 Freight
$25 Commission
"Please make checks payable to Manfra, Tordella & Brookes Inc.
We hold personal checks for 17 calendar days.
As I mentioned, we are still waiting for the capsules to arrive, I will let you know when it will ship" >>
There is no PCGS FS deadline. ALL will qualify.
Anyone know if/how these will qualify for PCGS First Strike if they really take 4-6 weeks? Can we open the box to take a look at the coins first? >>
And then they lock us out and tell us to essentially get to the back of the bus tomorrow?!?
And to top it all off, they then tell us that personal checks are being accepted...so we offered them directly to the big mouth doing the talking and he refused to take it....therefore, the nameless, faceless future callers would also take precedence over everyone left standing there like idiots.
So yes, MTB deserves a big, fat foot up their a**...and that's my bottom line.
AND I'll say this about the Mint, regardless of their incompetence, I never feel like they're double-dealing to friends and families out the back door. With the APs...not so much!
<< <i>I just got back after my unsuccessful trip to MTB. I got there around 1:30pm. There were anywhere from 40-50 people ahead of me on line, prolly 30 of whom had black hats & long black coats (not ONE of them collectors). They were milling about, ignoring instructions to form a polite and quiet line and generally were a nuisance to everyone else patiently waiting. At 1:50pm or so, a gentleman from MTB came out and said sales were done for the day and to call in the morning. It was obvious to me that this was a result of the disturbances in the lobby by these gentlemen on line.
As I was waiting... one of them asked what the line was for (as he was standing on line!!!!!!) and got right on his Blackberry to contact the rest of his troops to come down and get some sets.
Of the 40-50 people on line, I'd guess that no more than 10% there were collectors... the rest were there for the profits.
Almost reminded me of the Ferengie from Star Trek.... except the Ferengie are far more polite. >>
Now THAT is one, incredible story!
Frickin flippers.....this is one time I would, seriously, consider suggesting criminal prosecution and a couple of weeks in a jail cell for the whole lot of them. YEAH, I MEAN IT TOO!!!
<< <i>What time did you send in your order TC? >>
Time(S!) would be a better question. I bugged the hades out of them almost all morning. 3 emails (confirmed) and 3 faxes (confirmed) minimum. Calls as well. When the salesman sent me a confirmation of the sale at 3:30 PM EST, he told me that they were swamped beyond anything they had ever imagined and apologized greatly for taking so long.
<FONT face=Verdana><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=blue><B>">myurl
</B></FONT></FONT>I wonder if it is someone on the forum
<< <i>The major problem with MTB is that through the magic of cell phones, people were calling FROM THE LINE and being repeatedly told that sets were not being sold via phone or internet or through any means other than in person...AND WE EVEN HAD THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE US THE INFO.
And then they lock us out and tell us to essentially get to the back of the bus tomorrow?!?
And to top it all off, they then tell us that personal checks are being accepted...so we offered them directly to the big mouth doing the talking and he refused to take it....therefore, the nameless, faceless future callers would also take precedence over everyone left standing there like idiots.
So yes, MTB deserves a big, fat foot up their a**...and that's my bottom line.
AND I'll say this about the Mint, regardless of their incompetence, I never feel like they're double-dealing to friends and families out the back door. With the APs...not so much! >>
Well, I don't know where the leaks to HSN, CSN, tCV, etc are coming from, but they are coming from the APs.
It is quite ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever what happened. It's like they've never done walk-in business before.