<< <i>Who is segoja? Dealer? Forum member? How did he get all the sets? BST? TGC? >>
segoja is a forum member. I've done BST transactions with him. Very nice guy. He's in Illinois so we can probably guess where he got his sets. >>
Yep, good to be one of GC's "real customers". >>
Hey, I'm sure GC charged their "real customers double", so you have to take that into account... >>
<< <i>I see that after getting over $5K for his/her NGC ER 69 set, segoja has another one up. It looks like he/she has a nice supply. I not that the item location is Chicago, IL. Now this GC friend is REALLY doing well. I wonder how many 69 ER sets he/she has. At around $4K profit/set, not bad indeed. It's amazing how virtually everyone on Ebay w/numerous sets seems to go back to GC. The Mint could care less...
I wonder whether segoja will be the coinsantiques of the NGC 69ER sets w/a massive supply. >>
My first post. Love all the insights/ knowledge sharing/ theories. Apologies if this post has already been addressed, but I've been playing catch-up. I believe this seller is James Sego of JMS Coins in Naperville, IL. He was at the GC on January 3, and while not as obnoxius as the guy who hired approx 40 folks from Manpower, he was actively trying to hoard additional sets from flippers in the line. I believe he was at least able to secure 20 additional sets, probably more. He went to the FUN show the next day and apparently got all of his sets graded by NGC. There are pictures of him and his son in a CW article with all the sets. By the looks of it he scored even more than 20 at the GC. He was offering $2k/ set to those in line at the GC. A nice profit indeed. He was not a "real customer" from what I gathered.
<< <i>My first post. Love all the insights/ knowledge sharing/ theories. Apologies if this post has already been addressed, but I've been playing catch-up. I believe this seller is James Sego of JMS Coins in Naperville, IL. He was at the GC on January 3, and while not as obnoxius as the guy who hired approx 40 folks from Manpower, he was actively trying to hoard additional sets from flippers in the line. I believe he was at least able to secure 20 additional sets, probably more. He went to the FUN show the next day and apparently got all of his sets graded by NGC. There are pictures of him and his son in a CW article with all the sets. By the looks of it he scored even more than 20 at the GC. He was offering $2k/ set to those in line at the GC. A nice profit indeed. He was not a "real customer" from what I gathered. >>
<< <i>Doesnt the future of these coins depend completely on the future mintages on the rest of the series? How can we really know what to compare these to until the 2011 mintages are revealed? >>
The Mint was expecting to produce 100,000 of each 2010 design until they ran into production delays. So that's probably a good predictor of what we'll see for the 2011 designs.
Coinworld inicated the mint had the ability to strike 900-1200 pucks per hour from the one press. I dont know how many shifts they run but that is alot of potential production assuming a long production run.
It's pretty obvious Apmex is doing some kind of scam. Whether it's having the graded, cherry picking, selling to old time customers, whatever, they ain't selling to the public.
I thought they would have been a good AP, thinking they have the govt looking at them, because they started this whole thing. Yet other AP's have sold out and still not a word from Apmex.
<< <i>The 17 day hold on personal checks was in the MTB ordering instructions.
I shoulda gone with a postal money order! >>
Me too, My sales person told me that with the expected shipping date being several weeks that my personal check would clear before they were shipped and no gain. Then I read that they were shipping within the week for those that paid wire transfer and Money Order. I just can't win it seems. Dr. Murphy strikes again.
Maybe Apmex could be holding back a few to sell in later years if the set becomes scarce and valuable. This is a first year issue. No one really knows how popular they will be in future years. If the U.S. mint ends the ASE and AGE program this year which they can do because after 25 years the original law allows it – The mint may decide to use these pucks as their preferred method of silver bullion distribution. I personally want the mint to end the ASE program. Although I like the ASEs a lot, its time for a new design.
<< <i>Maybe Apmex could be holding back a few to sell in later years if the set becomes scarce and valuable. This is a first year issue. No one really knows how popular they will be in future years. If the U.S. mint ends the ASE and AGE program this year which they can do because after 25 years the original law allows it – The mint may decide to use these pucks as their preferred method of silver bullion distribution. >>
I beg to differ. Even if the US Mint ends the ASE program, I think they will come up with a new program/design for 1OZ silver bullion. 5Oz silver at the current POS is just too expensive for some people.
the great information here brings out another lurker, to post.
I sent a couple questions oo the Dillion Gage auction lister. He stated he is a long time customer. I asked how they were packaged (sleeves, airtites, etc, but he didn't know (sealed box) which I thought was odd, since he had to buy them.
Anyway, it kind of confirms that DG is selling (or gifting) these to loyal customers. My question is: if they stay to the 1 per HH, with internal customers, does it break the Mint directive?
<< <i>the great information here brings out another lurker, to post.
I sent a couple questions oo the Dillion Gage auction lister. He stated he is a long time customer. I asked how they were packaged (sleeves, airtites, etc, but he didn't know (sealed box) which I thought was odd, since he had to buy them.
Anyway, it kind of confirms that DG is selling (or gifting) these to loyal customers. My question is: if they stay to the 1 per HH, with internal customers, does it break the Mint directive? >>
It's debatable,
my opinion is that it goes against the spirit of the mint directives.
all bullion is supposed to be made available to the public. These are included. Giving first shot at your close customers is not making them available to the public, rather it is making them available to a limited current customer list.
Regarding DG...I've actually purchased from them in the past and have a 2-month-old e-mail response from them re my interest in the Pucks...and I didn't get the word from them...so obviously, if they're selling, they have established tiers of those deserving the honor of buying.
Meanwhile, wasn't Fidelitrade supposed to start sending out a mass e-mail regarding the first wave of applications received sometime this week? And it's now late Thursday...
Seriously, assuming A-Mark's storage facility doesn't explode in the next 4-6 weeks...they really have handled this entire process the best...by far!
I think most of the AP's are doing just that. Like TGC said, if he can't make any money on these, then he's going to sell them to his "Best Customers" as a reward for their business.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
A-Mark payment is still pending on my paypal account. Don't know maybe it will clear in 21 days?? Does everyone here have the same pending payment on paypal?? Is it something to do with the 6-8 weeks shipping
<<I think most of the AP's are doing just that. Like TGC said, if he can't make any money on these, then he's going to sell them to his "Best Customers" as a reward for their business. >>
I'll now put on my other hat as someone who has now secured at least a couple of sets...and say that this scenario (if accurate) would actually now be supportive of prices going forward. The more individual [and financially secure] set holders out there, the less possibility of a major flood of flips hitting the market. Assuming we don't have many more GC-type dumping debacles, there simply might not be very many large hordes out there to dump.
We now know first hand, who the scumbag AP's are and who which ones run there business with every attempt at fairness and compliance to US Mint directives.
So far A-Mark wins hands down.
Others, while selling to the public, it appear could not pass up ways to move groups of sets through shadow customers to reap fat profits, directly thumbing their noses at the US Mint.
The lowest are those that appear to be quietly moving sets out the back door while not even attempting to sell to the public at large. Hey got to develop that public channel right? (for whats left) We know who they are. Hopefully the lawsuits by the Mint will result in judgements that far exceed to elicit profits garnered unlawfully by the violators. Turn em upside down, shack out the money and put Uncle Sam's foot firmly in backside...No more AP.
APMEX , we are watching you, you started this mess. Where are your sets? YOU ALONE sell to the public, you have already lost business and a chunk of your rep from an angry public (Hopefully you at least got a Christmas card from Gainesville and Provident)...Now you hold your sets with zero communication.....tick..tick..tick
I think most of the AP's are doing just that. Like TGC said, if he can't make any money on these, then he's going to sell them to his "Best Customers" as a reward for their business. >>
I agree. but at least TGC made an attempt to also sell (a small quantity) 'directly to the public' how-ever unsucessful that was. Strongest rumor has TGC selling in bulk to dealers also (like HSN and silvertowne, etc) at more than 1 PHH also, but that is another subject.
My thought was, say Dillion Gage has 3,000 loyal customers and they exhuast their supply that way, but stay within the 1 per HH. ? whether that is in conflict with the Mint debatible, for sure. Either way, they are!
I guess Apmex going off the Alert list (which I do not believe) for the next round, is really the same thing. To get on the alert list you have to be a customer. and yes, 1/2 the fun in this all the assumptions and investagative pondering.
as was asked, my alert dates: for the individual coins is 6/28 (yes I have been after these as long as possible) for the set, 12/9.
I don't know how you folks can praise a-mark at this point...it certainly appears to me that they held a lot of sets back from the public...and I'd bet the cherries are being slabbed with other intentions. They sold the seconds as bu
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
At this point, no one much seems to care about "Mint directives" - certainly not a majority of the AP's. And I wouldn't expect any lawsuits any time soon. Money talks, ya know?
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
Regarding UPS Insurance- Coins are excluded with the exception pennies and nickels, and except proof and mint sets of United States coins tendered by United States mints of a face value not to exceed $2.41.
Whilst I have managed to secure some sets, for my personal collection and to hand down to my two sons, I am pretty disgusted by how certain AP's have conducted their business.
What they will have made by selling these to their 'mates', employees - whatever you want to call them...the 'spirit' of the Mint's demands have simply not been met and that, I think, needs to be severely addressed by lawyers acting in the public interest.
I for one will be diverting my business away from certain AP's and on to others who appear to have acted in a reasonable manner - 5 stars to A-Mark really on this one.
These others so called AP's may have made a quick buck doing it their way but, longer term, they will be losing out on a hell of a lot of future sales by VERY disgruntled, loyal customers. They've only got themselves to blame and I for one will not be able to contain a somewhat sinister laugh when they start losing future business as a result.
Why can't we agree, as serious collectors, to wholly withdraw ALL of our custom from these scummy AP's, divert it the likes of A-Mark and vote with our $$$$'s rather than simply voicing our annoyances. Take it from me, they're much like banks...withdraw all their business in one huge chunk and they have a lot of inventory sat around not going anywhere, anytime fast!!!
Come on 'public' let's get together as a collective and show THEM what WE can do!!!!!!!!
<<I don't know how you folks can praise a-mark at this point...it certainly appears to me that they held a lot of sets back from the public...and I'd bet the cherries are being slabbed with other intentions. They sold the seconds as bu >>
Well...I'll give A-Mark the benefit of the doubt until we all start receiving druss in the 64-65 range...and then we'll REALLY roast them (in fact, they'll be held in even lower esteem than everyone else for pulling a fast one on all of us!!!)
But so far, they've seemingly kept to the guidelines, released quantity to the public, with more due to be sold, and their numbers may yet hold up when all the dust settles (and who knows, human nature being what it is, maybe they also plan to sell/give some coins to their key customers).
UPS has become my shipper of last resort. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I receive anything shipped by UPS, it looks as though it was drop-kicked into the truck!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>At this point, no one much seems to care about "Mint directives" - certainly not a majority of the AP's. And I wouldn't expect any lawsuits any time soon. Money talks, ya know? >>
There won't be any lawsuits as no legal statutes were broken. The only thing that could happen is an APs status could be suspended or removed.
<<UPS has become my shipper of last resort. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I receive anything shipped by UPS, it looks as though it was drop-kicked into the truck! >>
By guys wearing s***-brown shorts...and this surprises you, why (full disclosure, I have a USPS retiree in the family)?
Because years ago they were the best in the business. No offense, but when UPS fell below the USPS, that was saying something! And about USPS - I've been really impressed the past couple of years. They've delivered packages from the west to the east coasts in just 2 days with simple priority. And the stuff arrives in perfect condition. They're a little pricey, though. Really depends on the weight.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
This thread has gotten so long it's difficult to find anything from previous posts. But I think it was decided that A-Mark used them for convenience; i.e., they're both in LA. A-Mark, like most of the AP's, really didn't have the staff to handle volume like this in a retail manner. Driving everything over to PCGS in an armored car made good business sense. So I'm sure everything will be shipped from PCGS directly to the public. And no, I don't believe A-Mark cherrypicked anything.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
I'm surprised no one has brought up the notion of foreign buyers. I realize the AP's are "forbidden" from sending any of these overseas, but hey - they're "forbidden" to do a lot of things that they've done anyway. I'm sure a few AP's have sold/given some of them to foreign account holders. But that's not my point. What about secondary sellers shipping overseas. Coin collecting is global. Many of us have coins from all over the world. It's quite possible that some of the sales on ebay are going to overseas collectors via family/friends purchasing them here. If you think about it, the dollar is at an all time low. It would make purchasing these sets quite attractive to foreign buyers - especially those in Asia. It certainly would explain how unopened boxes of pucks can go for $3800 - $4000! Not many Americans can afford that right now.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i><<I don't know how you folks can praise a-mark at this point...it certainly appears to me that they held a lot of sets back from the public...and I'd bet the cherries are being slabbed with other intentions. They sold the seconds as bu >>
Well...I'll give A-Mark the benefit of the doubt until we all start receiving druss in the 64-65 range...and then we'll REALLY roast them (in fact, they'll be held in even lower esteem than everyone else for pulling a fast one on all of us!!!)
But so far, they've seemingly kept to the guidelines, released quantity to the public, with more due to be sold, and their numbers may yet hold up when all the dust settles (and who knows, human nature being what it is, maybe they also plan to sell/give some coins to their key customers).
So only time will tell. >>
Right.
Anyone know what's going on with Prudential? I was lurking on some other boards and it sounds like they allowed a few phone orders.
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<< <i>I don't know how you folks can praise a-mark at this point...it certainly appears to me that they held a lot of sets back from the public...and I'd bet the cherries are being slabbed with other intentions. They sold the seconds as bu >>
It this point I don't know if I would be down on them but I certainly wouldn't be singin' their praises. If and until there is clarification I will remain skeptical. I think the AP's in general are really hot about this stuff and will look for any loophole to get what they think they deserve. IMHO.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I'm surprised no one has brought up the notion of foreign buyers. I realize the AP's are "forbidden" from sending any of these overseas, but hey - they're "forbidden" to do a lot of things that they've done anyway. I'm sure a few AP's have sold/given some of them to foreign account holders. But that's not my point. What about secondary sellers shipping overseas. Coin collecting is global. Many of us have coins from all over the world. It's quite possible that some of the sales on ebay are going to overseas collectors via family/friends purchasing them here. If you think about it, the dollar is at an all time low. It would make purchasing these sets quite attractive to foreign buyers - especially those in Asia. It certainly would explain how unopened boxes of pucks can go for $3800 - $4000! Not many Americans can afford that right now. >>
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase.
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<< <i>A-Mark payment is still pending on my paypal account. Don't know maybe it will clear in 21 days?? Does everyone here have the same pending payment on paypal?? >>
Mine is pending also. No worries, when A-Mark accepts receipt, the status will change. I paid mine out of my PayPal balance, "clearing" is a non-issue.
May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase. >>
Already one to be sent overseas Im military in Germany though and my military address is technically NY since everything goes through NY before coming
My in-laws (theyre German and collect coins) will be stoked when they see these massive quarters!!!
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase. >>
My point exactly! These parks are hugely popular with foreign tourists. It's only natural that some would want a "token" to remember their visit.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase. >>
Already one to be sent overseas Im military in Germany though and my military address is technically NY since everything goes through NY before coming
My in-laws (theyre German and collect coins) will be stoked when they see these massive quarters!!! >>
Might what to warn them to wear their back supporters. By the way, did you have any difficulty voting?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term? >>
A high percentage. But I think some of it will be based on whether folks feel there was cherrypicking or not. The hunt for 69s and that possibly non-existant 70 is on. And given that these are in PCGS holders, if folks think they have nice coins I expect LOTS to get sent back to PCGS instead of hitting ebay.
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<< <i>May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term? >>
A high percentage. But I think some of it will be based on whether folks feel there was cherrypicking or not. The hunt for 69s and that possibly non-existant 70 is on. And given that these are in PCGS holders, if folks think they have nice coins I expect LOTS to get sent back to PCGS instead of hitting ebay. >>
I wonder if this brouhaha caused by the Mint's obsession with fairness really changed things much. Seems like those who wanted a bunch got them anyway.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Might what to warn them to wear their back supporters. By the way, did you have any difficulty voting? >>
Voting was a breeze...just sent it in via snail mail. Not sure Ill vote again next time...
My inlaws are collecting the ATB series but they have to pay about 1-2 Euros per quarter. It will be funny seeing their faces when they see the oversized quarters
<< <i>My point exactly! These parks are hugely popular with foreign tourists. It's only natural that some would want a "token" to remember their visit. >>
Good point. That would make certain parks to be in much higher demand, such as Grand Canyon and Yosemite. When Arches National Park comes out in 2014, that should be huge as well. When I visited Bryce Canyon last fall, I was talking to some tourists from Europe and they all say that Bryce Canyon and Arches are very popular destinations for Europeans.
<< <i>May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term? >>
A high percentage. But I think some of it will be based on whether folks feel there was cherrypicking or not. The hunt for 69s and that possibly non-existant 70 is on. And given that these are in PCGS holders, if folks think they have nice coins I expect LOTS to get sent back to PCGS instead of hitting ebay. >>
I wonder if this brouhaha caused by the Mint's obsession with fairness really changed things much. Seems like those who wanted a bunch got them anyway. >>
The only thing that actually seemed to work well, from viewing the ordeal from afar, was the price fix. But we have no idea what price has been charged if you're a "preferred customer."
Other than that, they've been playing the bluff/find the loophole game. Or the "get the hell off my lawn" game.
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Might what to warn them to wear their back supporters. By the way, did you have any difficulty voting? >>
Voting was a breeze...just sent it in via snail mail. Not sure Ill vote again next time...
My inlaws are collecting the ATB series but they have to pay about 1-2 Euros per quarter. It will be funny seeing their faces when they see the oversized quarters >>
I could almost hear them saying in their german language "My that American inflation is getting out of hand. Now they are going to need bigger pockets".
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I could almost hear them saying in their German language "My that American inflation is getting out of hand. Now they are going to need bigger pockets". >>
Good one! They do say 25 cents!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
I could almost hear them saying in their German language "My that American inflation is getting out of hand. Now they are going to need bigger pockets". >>
Good one! They do say 25 cents! >>
If you think this is big, wait 'till you see the new half-dollars!
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Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is segoja? Dealer? Forum member? How did he get all the sets? BST? TGC? >>
segoja is a forum member. I've done BST transactions with him. Very nice guy. He's in Illinois so we can probably guess where he got his sets. >>
Yep, good to be one of GC's "real customers". >>
Hey, I'm sure GC charged their "real customers double", so you have to take that into account... >>
<< <i>I see that after getting over $5K for his/her NGC ER 69 set, segoja has another one up. It looks like he/she has a nice supply. I not that the item location is Chicago, IL. Now this GC friend is REALLY doing well. I wonder how many 69 ER sets he/she has. At around $4K profit/set, not bad indeed. It's amazing how virtually everyone on Ebay w/numerous sets seems to go back to GC. The Mint could care less...
I wonder whether segoja will be the coinsantiques of the NGC 69ER sets w/a massive supply. >>
My first post. Love all the insights/ knowledge sharing/ theories. Apologies if this post has already been addressed, but I've been playing catch-up. I believe this seller is James Sego of JMS Coins in Naperville, IL. He was at the GC on January 3, and while not as obnoxius as the guy who hired approx 40 folks from Manpower, he was actively trying to hoard additional sets from flippers in the line. I believe he was at least able to secure 20 additional sets, probably more. He went to the FUN show the next day and apparently got all of his sets graded by NGC. There are pictures of him and his son in a CW article with all the sets. By the looks of it he scored even more than 20 at the GC. He was offering $2k/ set to those in line at the GC. A nice profit indeed. He was not a "real customer" from what I gathered.
<< <i>My first post. Love all the insights/ knowledge sharing/ theories. Apologies if this post has already been addressed, but I've been playing catch-up. I believe this seller is James Sego of JMS Coins in Naperville, IL. He was at the GC on January 3, and while not as obnoxius as the guy who hired approx 40 folks from Manpower, he was actively trying to hoard additional sets from flippers in the line. I believe he was at least able to secure 20 additional sets, probably more. He went to the FUN show the next day and apparently got all of his sets graded by NGC. There are pictures of him and his son in a CW article with all the sets. By the looks of it he scored even more than 20 at the GC. He was offering $2k/ set to those in line at the GC. A nice profit indeed. He was not a "real customer" from what I gathered. >>
Welcome aboard.
<< <i>Doesnt the future of these coins depend completely on the future mintages on the rest of the series? How can we really know what to compare these to until the 2011 mintages are revealed? >>
The Mint was expecting to produce 100,000 of each 2010 design until they ran into production delays. So that's probably a good predictor of what we'll see for the 2011 designs.
I'd hate to see the AP's get a gift again this year
More good information and more reasons why Gold Center shouldn't be a Mint Distributor.
I knew it would happen.
It's pretty obvious Apmex is doing some kind of scam. Whether it's having the graded, cherry picking, selling to old time customers, whatever, they ain't selling to the public.
I thought they would have been a good AP, thinking they have the govt looking at them, because they started this whole thing. Yet other AP's have sold out and still not a word from Apmex.
<< <i>The 17 day hold on personal checks was in the MTB ordering instructions.
I shoulda gone with a postal money order! >>
Me too, My sales person told me that with the expected shipping date being several weeks that my personal check would clear before they were shipped and no gain. Then I read that they were shipping within the week for those that paid wire transfer and Money Order. I just can't win it seems. Dr. Murphy strikes again.
Box of 20
<< <i>Maybe Apmex could be holding back a few to sell in later years if the set becomes scarce and valuable. This is a first year issue. No one really knows how popular they will be in future years. If the U.S. mint ends the ASE and AGE program this year which they can do because after 25 years the original law allows it – The mint may decide to use these pucks as their preferred method of silver bullion distribution. >>
I beg to differ. Even if the US Mint ends the ASE program, I think they will come up with a new program/design for 1OZ silver bullion. 5Oz silver at the current POS is just too expensive for some people.
I sent a couple questions oo the Dillion Gage auction lister. He stated he is a long time customer. I asked how they were packaged (sleeves, airtites, etc, but he didn't know (sealed box) which I thought was odd, since he had to buy them.
Anyway, it kind of confirms that DG is selling (or gifting) these to loyal customers. My question is: if they stay to the 1 per HH, with internal customers, does it break the Mint directive?
<< <i>the great information here brings out another lurker, to post.
I sent a couple questions oo the Dillion Gage auction lister. He stated he is a long time customer. I asked how they were packaged (sleeves, airtites, etc, but he didn't know (sealed box) which I thought was odd, since he had to buy them.
Anyway, it kind of confirms that DG is selling (or gifting) these to loyal customers. My question is: if they stay to the 1 per HH, with internal customers, does it break the Mint directive? >>
It's debatable,
my opinion is that it goes against the spirit of the mint directives.
all bullion is supposed to be made available to the public. These are included. Giving first shot at your close customers is not making them available to the public, rather it is making them available to a limited current customer list.
Meanwhile, wasn't Fidelitrade supposed to start sending out a mass e-mail regarding the first wave of applications received sometime this week? And it's now late Thursday...
Seriously, assuming A-Mark's storage facility doesn't explode in the next 4-6 weeks...they really have handled this entire process the best...by far!
I think most of the AP's are doing just that. Like TGC said, if he can't make any money on these, then he's going to sell them to his "Best Customers" as a reward for their business.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Is it something to do with the 6-8 weeks shipping
I'll now put on my other hat as someone who has now secured at least a couple of sets...and say that this scenario (if accurate) would actually now be supportive of prices going forward. The more individual [and financially secure] set holders out there, the less possibility of a major flood of flips hitting the market. Assuming we don't have many more GC-type dumping debacles, there simply might not be very many large hordes out there to dump.
IMHO...
We now know first hand, who the scumbag AP's are and who which ones run there business with every attempt at fairness and compliance to US Mint directives.
So far A-Mark wins hands down.
Others, while selling to the public, it appear could not pass up ways to move groups of sets through shadow customers to reap fat profits, directly thumbing their noses
at the US Mint.
The lowest are those that appear to be quietly moving sets out the back door while not even attempting to sell to the public at large.
Hey got to develop that public channel right? (for whats left) We know who they are.
Hopefully the lawsuits by the Mint will result in judgements that far exceed to elicit profits garnered unlawfully by the violators.
Turn em upside down, shack out the money and put Uncle Sam's foot firmly in backside...No more AP.
APMEX , we are watching you, you started this mess. Where are your sets? YOU ALONE sell to the public, you have already lost business and a chunk of your rep from an angry
public (Hopefully you at least got a Christmas card from Gainesville and Provident)...Now you hold your sets with zero communication.....tick..tick..tick
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>johnrav
I think most of the AP's are doing just that. Like TGC said, if he can't make any money on these, then he's going to sell them to his "Best Customers" as a reward for their business. >>
I agree. but at least TGC made an attempt to also sell (a small quantity) 'directly to the public' how-ever unsucessful that was. Strongest rumor has TGC selling in bulk to dealers also (like HSN and silvertowne, etc) at more than 1 PHH also, but that is another subject.
My thought was, say Dillion Gage has 3,000 loyal customers and they exhuast their supply that way, but stay within the 1 per HH. ? whether that is in conflict with the Mint debatible, for sure. Either way, they are!
I guess Apmex going off the Alert list (which I do not believe) for the next round, is really the same thing. To get on the alert list you have to be a customer. and yes, 1/2 the fun in this all the assumptions and investagative pondering.
as was asked, my alert dates: for the individual coins is 6/28 (yes I have been after these as long as possible) for the set, 12/9.
At this point, no one much seems to care about "Mint directives" - certainly not a majority of the AP's. And I wouldn't expect any lawsuits any time soon. Money talks, ya know?
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Coins are excluded with the exception pennies and nickels, and except proof and mint sets of United States coins tendered by United States mints of a face value not to exceed $2.41.
What they will have made by selling these to their 'mates', employees - whatever you want to call them...the 'spirit' of the Mint's demands have simply not been met and that, I think, needs to be severely addressed by lawyers acting in the public interest.
I for one will be diverting my business away from certain AP's and on to others who appear to have acted in a reasonable manner - 5 stars to A-Mark really on this one.
These others so called AP's may have made a quick buck doing it their way but, longer term, they will be losing out on a hell of a lot of future sales by VERY disgruntled, loyal customers. They've only got themselves to blame and I for one will not be able to contain a somewhat sinister laugh when they start losing future business as a result.
Why can't we agree, as serious collectors, to wholly withdraw ALL of our custom from these scummy AP's, divert it the likes of A-Mark and vote with our $$$$'s rather than simply voicing our annoyances. Take it from me, they're much like banks...withdraw all their business in one huge chunk and they have a lot of inventory sat around not going anywhere, anytime fast!!!
Come on 'public' let's get together as a collective and show THEM what WE can do!!!!!!!!
Well...I'll give A-Mark the benefit of the doubt until we all start receiving druss in the 64-65 range...and then we'll REALLY roast them (in fact, they'll be held in even lower esteem than everyone else for pulling a fast one on all of us!!!)
But so far, they've seemingly kept to the guidelines, released quantity to the public, with more due to be sold, and their numbers may yet hold up when all the dust settles (and who knows, human nature being what it is, maybe they also plan to sell/give some coins to their key customers).
So only time will tell.
UPS has become my shipper of last resort. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I receive anything shipped by UPS, it looks as though it was drop-kicked into the truck!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>At this point, no one much seems to care about "Mint directives" - certainly not a majority of the AP's. And I wouldn't expect any lawsuits any time soon. Money talks, ya know?
There won't be any lawsuits as no legal statutes were broken. The only thing that could happen is an APs status could be suspended or removed.
By guys wearing s***-brown shorts...and this surprises you, why (full disclosure, I have a USPS retiree in the family)?
Because years ago they were the best in the business. No offense, but when UPS fell below the USPS, that was saying something! And about USPS - I've been really impressed the past couple of years. They've delivered packages from the west to the east coasts in just 2 days with simple priority. And the stuff arrives in perfect condition. They're a little pricey, though. Really depends on the weight.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Buffalo Nickel Short Set 1934-38 67% Complete
This thread has gotten so long it's difficult to find anything from previous posts. But I think it was decided that A-Mark used them for convenience; i.e., they're both in LA. A-Mark, like most of the AP's, really didn't have the staff to handle volume like this in a retail manner. Driving everything over to PCGS in an armored car made good business sense. So I'm sure everything will be shipped from PCGS directly to the public. And no, I don't believe A-Mark cherrypicked anything.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
I'm surprised no one has brought up the notion of foreign buyers. I realize the AP's are "forbidden" from sending any of these overseas, but hey - they're "forbidden" to do a lot of things that they've done anyway. I'm sure a few AP's have sold/given some of them to foreign account holders. But that's not my point. What about secondary sellers shipping overseas. Coin collecting is global. Many of us have coins from all over the world. It's quite possible that some of the sales on ebay are going to overseas collectors via family/friends purchasing them here. If you think about it, the dollar is at an all time low. It would make purchasing these sets quite attractive to foreign buyers - especially those in Asia. It certainly would explain how unopened boxes of pucks can go for $3800 - $4000! Not many Americans can afford that right now.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i><<I don't know how you folks can praise a-mark at this point...it certainly appears to me that they held a lot of sets back from the public...and I'd bet the cherries are being slabbed with other intentions. They sold the seconds as bu >>
Well...I'll give A-Mark the benefit of the doubt until we all start receiving druss in the 64-65 range...and then we'll REALLY roast them (in fact, they'll be held in even lower esteem than everyone else for pulling a fast one on all of us!!!)
But so far, they've seemingly kept to the guidelines, released quantity to the public, with more due to be sold, and their numbers may yet hold up when all the dust settles (and who knows, human nature being what it is, maybe they also plan to sell/give some coins to their key customers).
So only time will tell. >>
Right.
Anyone know what's going on with Prudential? I was lurking on some other boards and it sounds like they allowed a few phone orders.
<< <i>Anyone know what's going on with Prudential? I was lurking on some other boards and it sounds like they allowed a few phone orders. >>
They still have the same old message on their voicemail "sales suspended". 212-778-4654
<< <i>I don't know how you folks can praise a-mark at this point...it certainly appears to me that they held a lot of sets back from the public...and I'd bet the cherries are being slabbed with other intentions. They sold the seconds as bu >>
It this point I don't know if I would be down on them but I certainly wouldn't be singin' their praises. If and until there is clarification I will remain skeptical. I think the AP's in general are really hot about this stuff and will look for any loophole to get what they think they deserve. IMHO.
<< <i>I'm surprised no one has brought up the notion of foreign buyers. I realize the AP's are "forbidden" from sending any of these overseas, but hey - they're "forbidden" to do a lot of things that they've done anyway. I'm sure a few AP's have sold/given some of them to foreign account holders. But that's not my point. What about secondary sellers shipping overseas. Coin collecting is global. Many of us have coins from all over the world. It's quite possible that some of the sales on ebay are going to overseas collectors via family/friends purchasing them here. If you think about it, the dollar is at an all time low. It would make purchasing these sets quite attractive to foreign buyers - especially those in Asia. It certainly would explain how unopened boxes of pucks can go for $3800 - $4000! Not many Americans can afford that right now. >>
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase.
<< <i>A-Mark payment is still pending on my paypal account. Don't know maybe it will clear in 21 days?? Does everyone here have the same pending payment on paypal?? >>
Mine is pending also. No worries, when A-Mark accepts receipt, the status will change. I paid mine out of my PayPal balance, "clearing" is a non-issue.
<< <i>
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase. >>
Already one to be sent overseas
My in-laws (theyre German and collect coins) will be stoked when they see these massive quarters!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>/Q]
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase. >>
My point exactly! These parks are hugely popular with foreign tourists. It's only natural that some would want a "token" to remember their visit.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>
<< <i>
Paladin, this is a good point. The ATBs represent American icons known worldwide and should be able to find a collector base overseas. Drive into Yosemite on a nice summer day and you'll find boatloads of foreigners!
What it will take for these to start moving overseas is the upcoming crash in prices when all are released and the numismatic pieces hit. We'll start seeing folks sell their pucks back to dealers. At that point, some sets will start finding their ways overseas. The pucks will start to find homes and the prices will slowly increase. >>
Already one to be sent overseas
My in-laws (theyre German and collect coins) will be stoked when they see these massive quarters!!! >>
Might what to warn them to wear their back supporters.
<< <i>May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term? >>
A high percentage. But I think some of it will be based on whether folks feel there was cherrypicking or not. The hunt for 69s and that possibly non-existant 70 is on. And given that these are in PCGS holders, if folks think they have nice coins I expect LOTS to get sent back to PCGS instead of hitting ebay.
<< <i>
<< <i>May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term? >>
A high percentage. But I think some of it will be based on whether folks feel there was cherrypicking or not. The hunt for 69s and that possibly non-existant 70 is on. And given that these are in PCGS holders, if folks think they have nice coins I expect LOTS to get sent back to PCGS instead of hitting ebay. >>
I wonder if this brouhaha caused by the Mint's obsession with fairness really changed things much. Seems like those who wanted a bunch got them anyway.
<< <i>
Might what to warn them to wear their back supporters.
Voting was a breeze...just sent it in via snail mail. Not sure Ill vote again next time...
My inlaws are collecting the ATB series but they have to pay about 1-2 Euros per quarter. It will be funny seeing their faces when they see the oversized quarters
<< <i>My point exactly! These parks are hugely popular with foreign tourists. It's only natural that some would want a "token" to remember their visit. >>
Good point. That would make certain parks to be in much higher demand, such as Grand Canyon and Yosemite. When Arches National Park comes out in 2014, that should be huge as well. When I visited Bryce Canyon last fall, I was talking to some tourists from Europe and they all say that Bryce Canyon and Arches are very popular destinations for Europeans.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>May have been asked before but any one care to take a stab at what percent of these sets will be hitting eBay as an insta-flip versus being kept long term? >>
A high percentage. But I think some of it will be based on whether folks feel there was cherrypicking or not. The hunt for 69s and that possibly non-existant 70 is on. And given that these are in PCGS holders, if folks think they have nice coins I expect LOTS to get sent back to PCGS instead of hitting ebay. >>
I wonder if this brouhaha caused by the Mint's obsession with fairness really changed things much. Seems like those who wanted a bunch got them anyway. >>
The only thing that actually seemed to work well, from viewing the ordeal from afar, was the price fix. But we have no idea what price has been charged if you're a "preferred customer."
Other than that, they've been playing the bluff/find the loophole game. Or the "get the hell off my lawn" game.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Might what to warn them to wear their back supporters.
Voting was a breeze...just sent it in via snail mail. Not sure Ill vote again next time...
My inlaws are collecting the ATB series but they have to pay about 1-2 Euros per quarter. It will be funny seeing their faces when they see the oversized quarters >>
I could almost hear them saying in their german language "My that American inflation is getting out of hand. Now they are going to need bigger pockets".
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
I could almost hear them saying in their German language "My that American inflation is getting out of hand. Now they are going to need bigger pockets". >>
Good one! They do say 25 cents!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>
I could almost hear them saying in their German language "My that American inflation is getting out of hand. Now they are going to need bigger pockets". >>
Good one! They do say 25 cents!
If you think this is big, wait 'till you see the new half-dollars!