<< <i>$10 GOLD BUCHANON MINT STATE ESTIMATED INITIAL STRIKING RUN 3500 COINS
$10 GOLD BUCHANON PROOF ESTIMATED INITIAL STIKING RUN 6500 COINS.
THEY WERE SHORT STRUCK RELATIVE TO DEMAND. THE ONLY QUESTION NOW IS WILL THEY MAKE MORE.
ERIC
THE ABOVE ARE MY BEST GUESS TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH LITTLE OR MUCH. >>
Maybe I don't quite understand what is meant by "short struck" but to my current understanding they would not be short struck unless they stopped making more. Otherwise, it would seem the small batch theory would still apply.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>The flippers with PF69/MS69s are losing money considering the cost, grading fees and eBay fees. In all not a very huge resell market. Resale lost >>
That's a proof. Proofs are still available at the Mint for $804, each with the possibility of being graded 70.
<< it is typical for the 69's to go for mint price or less. definite money loser: First Spouse in 69, first strike or not. >>
Here is a Julia Proof 69 First Strike that went for $1299.99.
Here's another in MS69 First Strike that went for $1199.99.
In my opinion the 4 coin Liberty First Spouse set is a long term hold, not a quick flip. Those that with patience will be rewarded in the end. Also, I prefer mine in OGP.
<< <i>The flippers with PF69/MS69s are losing money considering the cost, grading fees and eBay fees. In all not a very huge resell market. Resale lost >>
That's a proof. Proofs are still available at the Mint for $804, each with the possibility of being graded 70.
<< it is typical for the 69's to go for mint price or less. definite money loser: First Spouse in 69, first strike or not. >>
Here is a Julia Proof 69 First Strike that went for $1299.99.
Here's another in MS69 First Strike that went for $1199.99. >>
I guess I should say early in the game, but maybe not... I think there is some new players in the game running up prices. I'll believe it when more 69s go off at prices like that. (I'll also say the increasing price of gold has helped, too.)
And what about a 70 for $7595 ?!?!
They won't all go for those prices. At least not yet. (PS: go gold!)
I guess I should say early in the game, but maybe not... I think there is some new players in the game running up prices. I'll believe it when more 69s go off at prices like that. (I'll also say the increasing price of gold has helped, too.)
I agree these short mintage ones will come back down a little when the Buch's excitement wears off. I'm Not saying they will ever go back to spot.
I recieved 7 each of the Buchanans liberties in pr and ms.One proof had spots and was very unattractive. I sent 4 ms and 2 proofs to PCGS.Both of the proofs that I submitted had 2-3 very minute frost breaks in Liberties curls.All 4 ms and one of the pr coins recieved 70's .It will be interesting to see if I can find any differences between the pr's when I get them back.I'll also be getting a few ngc70 soon from Jeremy -wonder how tough they are on pr's?
Keep us posted on the frost break diff's -- I expect my NGC PR70's any day and will report back.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
If this was January next year I think we could call it done, but with over 3 months left to strike more maybe it is too early to call this. Also I would guess the mint has been flooded with returns so the eventual mintage so far may be lower than what these numbers show.
If the price of gold keeps rising at some point very few will buy any spouse coins and we could have another drop to lower lows. Next years coins are not attractive so we may be seeing these coins worth close to melt for some time even down to 3000 mintages under an extreme surge in gold. If gold hit $2000 and ounce or higher that may be where it happens but I could be wrong.
If they are filling the last orders with a new batch from Westpoint, would they leave up the "red message"? If the backorder date continues to push out each day, does that indicate anything? Can we actually deduce anything with any sort of confidence? I don't think anybody really knows the answer(s). Like someone said above, until January, or until we see the red "waitlist" message, it's all speculation...
All I know is the '08 plat coins I ordered did the same thing (backordered until date) and the mint never struck anymore. Some people with orders in did get coins but not many. Some said those were filled with other peoples returns.
If I remember correctly the mint did move those coins to no longer available before the end of '08 so I would guess they would do the same for these if they did not intend to strike more sometime after the return period ends for the ones now red (by the end of november).
Even if the mint strikes more I will keep every single one of my Buchanans. They are part of the liberty subset and the only classic coin design of the series that was originaly designed to be gold. Also they are REAL close the same size as the original 1838 thru 1907 $10 gold classic eagle.
<< <i>In my opinion the 4 coin Liberty First Spouse set is a long term hold, not a quick flip. Those that with patience will be rewarded in the end. Also, I prefer mine in OGP. >>
I also agree with 7over8's logic...and with the Mint pushing up production of several products to early 2011 (as per Coin World -- that are usually distributed later in the year), I don't think they're going back to revisit this issue.
In addition, the fact that some people on this board who ordered when the red backorder message went up, but who are now In Stock & Reserved, shouldn't be taken as an indication of a restrike, because we've got to remember that the actions of people on this board are not typical of a random sampling of Mint customers...as we all react to news of this type as a group (herd?) and start placing lots of orders very quickly after messages of this type are posted...thereby likely soaking up the last few coins available.
With gold banging on the $1300 door this morning, we are also nearing another price increase - not this week, but maybe next...
The way the "red" orders are being filled - slowly and trickling out one by one - would seem to be indicative of the end of the supply (i.e. returns). If there were a new batch from West Point these orders would have been filled faster IMO. It's not like the mint is being swamped with orders for the MS Buchs...
These WILL be for sale until Septemeber 2011, or until 15,000 have been sold.
Why anyone would think they won't strike more if there is demand is beyond me.
I mean they are going to strike the next one, then the next one, then the next one, what's so hard about putting in a Buchanan die for a series. They have all the planchets they need, because they have them for all the other designs.
<< <i>Just wondering...did we ever definitively settle the question if returns to the Mint are recycled to other customers...or just melted down? >>
Unless the any damage to the coin is significant, returns are ALWAYS recycled since when you return them, they don't go back to the US Mint. They go back to PCGS. If PBGS can't see a problem, then back to the market it goes.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>These WILL be for sale until Septemeber 2011, or until 15,000 have been sold.
Why anyone would think they won't strike more if there is demand is beyond me. >>
Past experience, maybe? As in the 2008-W Platinum Eagles, fractional Buffalos, burnished Gold Eagles? The (slightly) early termination of the Jackson's Liberty First Spouse, well below the announced mintage limits? Other demands on the Mint's time - proof Gold Eagles, five different 5-ounce silver quarters, 2011-dated proof sets for a January launch date, possible 2010-W uncirculated gold eagles?
They *may* strike more Buchanans, but to my mind it is anything but a sure thing.
OK...I'm going to be out of town later this week for a long Labor Day weekend.
Does the group think I should take a laptop along to order the Buchanan Liberty as soon as it becomes available or will it take some time to sell out? And will that time be a few days or a few weeks?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not being much of a prognosticator, my thinking is they'll be worth more than issue price by Christmas. So, for those who have them by Halloween... they'll be treated, not tricked and will be able to feast on Thanksgiving. And no, the laptop is not necessary for any of these "offerings" because truthfully, a few bucks doesn't matter since there's eBay EVERY day.
My two liberty heads side by side. I really appreciate the opportunity to own a classic design in mint state condition at just 20% above melt. However, I still feel the mint should put a copy sign on the new coin
I remember 7/8 saying the Buchanan would sell out in the first week and that was wrong. Anyway the mint can order more planchets and it will be if they get them or not. They must have more for the Lincoln right?
Also the issue of what is a short strike amount came up, I think a short strike is a new lower mintage coin than any previous amounts, and based on that this coin was not short struck. To compare it to demand may not be right because any coin if left for sale will have more demand, at some point all coins go off sale at less than demand.
The issue seems to be what a short strike is relative to the other coins in the series, and based on that the Buchanan is not a short strike. The julia coin was probably also not a short strike either but was pulled before people expected it to be pulled so was an artificially low sales amount.
<< <i>Did any of your proofs have a frost break on the reverse? >>
One of the PR69s had minor frost breaks on the reverse. Both PR69s had small frost breaks on the obverse around the forehead and eye. >>
I just received the PR70 purchased from ebay. I notice there are two minor spots when looking from an angle with my naked eye. I don't think it is perfect, but PCGS gave it a PR70 anyway.
I don't know what the policy for returns, are but you would think they would not recycle the returns because more than likely it will just come back if the quality is not there.
just received the PR70 purchased from ebay. I notice there are two minor spots when looking from an angle with my naked eye. I don't think it is perfect, but PCGS gave it a PR70 anyway.
Is that a freckle on the tip of the nose. One of mine has the same thing at the same location.
<< <i>I don't know what the policy for returns, are but you would think they would not recycle the returns because more than likely it will just come back if the quality is not there. >>
I am just guessing on this but I would bet a bunch of collectors don't look that close at their coins. Sure, they might return it if there was doubling or if one side was a Spouse and the other a AGE but I suspect a good number overlook minor flaws and the Mint knows that and takes a chance.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i><< Did any of your proofs have a frost break on the reverse? >>
One of the PR69s had minor frost breaks on the reverse. Both PR69s had small frost breaks on the obverse around the forehead and eye. >>
I just received the PR70 purchased from ebay. I notice there are two minor spots when looking from an angle with my naked eye. I don't think it is perfect, but PCGS gave it a PR70 anyway. >>
Yes, those are similar to the ones on my PR69s, but actually, yours look a bit larger and more pronounced. You can't see mine when looking straight on; only when tilted. Maybe I should re-submit
Comments
It is now 10/5.
My order placed on 9/18 12:00am also pushed from 10/3 to 10/4, and now to 10/5 accordingly.
I am anxiously awaiting for the final outcome.
$10 GOLD BUCHANON PROOF ESTIMATED INITIAL STIKING RUN 6500 COINS.
THEY WERE SHORT STRUCK RELATIVE TO DEMAND. THE ONLY QUESTION NOW IS WILL THEY MAKE MORE.
ERIC
THE ABOVE ARE MY BEST GUESS TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH LITTLE OR MUCH.
<< <i>$10 GOLD BUCHANON MINT STATE ESTIMATED INITIAL STRIKING RUN 3500 COINS
$10 GOLD BUCHANON PROOF ESTIMATED INITIAL STIKING RUN 6500 COINS.
THEY WERE SHORT STRUCK RELATIVE TO DEMAND. THE ONLY QUESTION NOW IS WILL THEY MAKE MORE.
ERIC
THE ABOVE ARE MY BEST GUESS TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH LITTLE OR MUCH. >>
Maybe I don't quite understand what is meant by "short struck" but to my current understanding they would not be short struck unless they stopped making more. Otherwise, it would seem the small batch theory would still apply.
Is the schedule too full to worry about striking any more of these?
My opinion.....Yes.
The Proof AGE's and potentially any Proof ASE's add much more to the bottom line than 5000 more Buchanan's. They will move on.
definite money loser: First Spouse in 69, first strike or not.
<< <i>it is typical for the 69's to go for mint price or less.
definite money loser: First Spouse in 69, first strike or not. >>
It's nothing more then a lottery for 70s with, heads I win, tails you lose, with the grading companies and eBay being the winners.
Edited to add eBay as a winner in the lottery.
<< <i>The flippers with PF69/MS69s are losing money considering the cost, grading fees and eBay fees. In all not a very huge resell market. Resale lost >>
That's a proof. Proofs are still available at the Mint for $804, each with the possibility of being graded 70.
<< it is typical for the 69's to go for mint price or less. definite money loser: First Spouse in 69, first strike or not. >>
Here is a Julia Proof 69 First Strike that went for $1299.99.
Here's another in MS69 First Strike that went for $1199.99.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>The flippers with PF69/MS69s are losing money considering the cost, grading fees and eBay fees. In all not a very huge resell market. Resale lost >>
That's a proof. Proofs are still available at the Mint for $804, each with the possibility of being graded 70.
<< it is typical for the 69's to go for mint price or less. definite money loser: First Spouse in 69, first strike or not. >>
Here is a Julia Proof 69 First Strike that went for $1299.99.
Here's another in MS69 First Strike that went for $1199.99. >>
I guess I should say early in the game, but maybe not... I think there is some new players in the game running up prices. I'll believe it when more 69s go off at prices like that. (I'll also say the increasing price of gold has helped, too.)
And what about a 70 for $7595 ?!?!
They won't all go for those prices. At least not yet.
(PS: go gold!)
I agree these short mintage ones will come back down a little when the Buch's excitement wears off. I'm Not saying they will ever go back to spot.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>The flippers with PF69/MS69s are losing money considering the cost, grading fees and eBay fees. In all not a very huge resell market >>
Gat...That coin is still avalible from the US Mint. That is why they are not bringing the $$$$ on ebay right now.
09/18/2010 at 09:47 AM
<< <i>The US Mint website just push another day further for UNC.
It is now 10/5.
My order placed on 9/18 12:00am also pushed from 10/3 to 10/4, and now to 10/5 accordingly.
I am anxiously awaiting for the final outcome. >>
Now 10/6.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Box of 20
<< <i>Ordered two Buchanan uncirculated on Saturday when they went red. It now says in stock and reserved. >>
Same with my Saturday after red order. Order was placed 9/18/10 at 10:41 AM for two unc Buchanans.
Box of 20
<< <i>Either we were on the cusp of last in stock or more are coming from Westpoint. >>
You sure you want to go out on a limb like that?
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
If I remember correctly the mint did move those coins to no longer available before the end of '08 so I would guess they would do the same for these if they did not intend to strike more sometime after the return period ends for the ones now red (by the end of november).
Uncirculated 3,540
Proof 5,028
Link
Unc. sales may be higher than number struck if oversold, as has happened in the past.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
stick a fork in them guys. nothin's comin out of West Point now but Proof AGE's.
<< <i>In my opinion the 4 coin Liberty First Spouse set is a long term hold, not a quick flip. Those that with patience will be rewarded in the end. Also, I prefer mine in OGP. >>
OGP for me on these as well.
<< <i>My Buch. Unc orders - placed 12 hours after they went red - read "In Progress" expected ship date Oct. 6 w/cancel box still there. >>
See if the ship date changes to Oct. 7 tomorrow.
Edit: On the Mint's website, the ship date now shows as Oct. 7.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
In addition, the fact that some people on this board who ordered when the red backorder message went up, but who are now In Stock & Reserved, shouldn't be taken as an indication of a restrike, because we've got to remember that the actions of people on this board are not typical of a random sampling of Mint customers...as we all react to news of this type as a group (herd?) and start placing lots of orders very quickly after messages of this type are posted...thereby likely soaking up the last few coins available.
The way the "red" orders are being filled - slowly and trickling out one by one - would seem to be indicative of the end of the supply (i.e. returns). If there were a new batch from West Point these orders would have been filled faster IMO. It's not like the mint is being swamped with orders for the MS Buchs...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Why anyone would think they won't strike more if there is demand is beyond me.
I mean they are going to strike the next one, then the next one, then the next one, what's so hard about putting in a Buchanan die for a series. They have all the planchets they need, because they have them for all the other designs.
I think you people are overthinking this one.
<< <i>Just wondering...did we ever definitively settle the question if returns to the Mint are recycled to other customers...or just melted down? >>
Unless the any damage to the coin is significant, returns are ALWAYS recycled since when you return them, they don't go back to the US Mint. They go back to PCGS. If PBGS can't see a problem, then back to the market it goes.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>These WILL be for sale until Septemeber 2011, or until 15,000 have been sold.
Why anyone would think they won't strike more if there is demand is beyond me. >>
Past experience, maybe? As in the 2008-W Platinum Eagles, fractional Buffalos, burnished Gold Eagles? The (slightly) early termination of the Jackson's Liberty First Spouse, well below the announced mintage limits? Other demands on the Mint's time - proof Gold Eagles, five different 5-ounce silver quarters, 2011-dated proof sets for a January launch date, possible 2010-W uncirculated gold eagles?
They *may* strike more Buchanans, but to my mind it is anything but a sure thing.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
OK...I'm going to be out of town later this week for a long Labor Day weekend.
Does the group think I should take a laptop along to order the Buchanan Liberty as soon as it becomes available or will it take some time to sell out? And will that time be a few days or a few weeks?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not being much of a prognosticator, my thinking is they'll be worth more than issue price by Christmas. So, for those who have them by Halloween... they'll be treated, not tricked and will be able to feast on Thanksgiving.
And no, the laptop is not necessary for any of these "offerings" because truthfully, a few bucks doesn't matter since there's eBay EVERY day.
...as for THE "+" , it's gold.
Cheerio,
Joe
I really appreciate the opportunity to own a classic design in mint state condition at just 20% above melt. However, I still feel the mint should put a copy sign on the new coin
Also the issue of what is a short strike amount came up, I think a short strike is a new lower mintage coin than any previous amounts, and based on that this coin was not short struck. To compare it to demand may not be right because any coin if left for sale will have more demand, at some point all coins go off sale at less than demand.
The issue seems to be what a short strike is relative to the other coins in the series, and based on that the Buchanan is not a short strike. The julia coin was probably also not a short strike either but was pulled before people expected it to be pulled so was an artificially low sales amount.
Just my two cents.
<< <i>My two liberty heads side by side >>
You are using the wrong denomination for a side by side comparison. You need to use the eagle($10) and not the half eagle($5).
<< <i>
<< <i>Did any of your proofs have a frost break on the reverse? >>
One of the PR69s had minor frost breaks on the reverse. Both PR69s had small frost breaks on the obverse around the forehead and eye. >>
I just received the PR70 purchased from ebay. I notice there are two minor spots when looking from an angle with my naked eye.
I don't think it is perfect, but PCGS gave it a PR70 anyway.
Box of 20
I don't think it is perfect, but PCGS gave it a PR70 anyway.
Is that a freckle on the tip of the nose. One of mine has the same thing at the same location.
Box of 20
<< <i>I don't know what the policy for returns, are but you would think they would not recycle the returns because more than likely it will just come back if the quality is not there. >>
I am just guessing on this but I would bet a bunch of collectors don't look that close at their coins. Sure, they might return it if there was doubling or if one side was a Spouse and the other a AGE
<< <i><< Did any of your proofs have a frost break on the reverse? >>
One of the PR69s had minor frost breaks on the reverse. Both PR69s had small frost breaks on the obverse around the forehead and eye. >>
I just received the PR70 purchased from ebay. I notice there are two minor spots when looking from an angle with my naked eye. I don't think it is perfect, but PCGS gave it a PR70 anyway. >>
Yes, those are similar to the ones on my PR69s, but actually, yours look a bit larger and more pronounced. You can't see mine when looking straight on; only when tilted. Maybe I should re-submit
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho