I think that the collectors will help create a demand for these. Large bullion dealers/traders may either like them or hate them because of the odd size. Bullion traders may also shy away from them because of the high price over spot they may command.
I would like one just to have one but that is more on the collector side. It will be interesting to see where they are a year from now...
When the major grading services come out with special slabs for these coins, watch their popularity increase. It sounds like an interesting series and a chance to accumulate some silver bullion.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I love it when Congress mandates the Mint to produce a program that will become a fiasco. Therein lies opportunity.
I see this program having numerous ups & downs before it's over.
Firstly, making the designs the same as the quarters is a dumb idea. It just is. So is the production of 30 different designs of a 5 oz. silver coin within a 6 year period.
Secondly, with the Silver Eagle Program pumping out 20 to 30 million 1 oz. coins annually now, how long much competing demand for these will there be, given the higher unit cost and a slowing (if not crashing) economy?
Lastly, if the buzz about low silver inventories, diminishing silver stockpiles and Comex manipulation are partly true, there is a chance that silver prices could see a major hiccup sometime during this term of this 6-year program. I have no doubt that volatility in silver prices will cause more than a few whipsaws in both pricing and the mintages in this program.
Let the fun begin!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Lastly, if the buzz about low silver inventories, diminishing silver stockpiles and Comex manipulation are partly true, there is a chance that silver prices could see a major hiccup sometime during this term of this 6-year program. I have no doubt that volatility in silver prices will cause more than a few whipsaws in both pricing and the mintages in this program.
These will be as available exponentially as the spouse coins. There are no blank shortages. By all means let everyone know when you can't get a brand new 5oz round, then we can talk shortages/sets.
I don't expect you folks will see these for anything less than $120 each possibly more.
Demand will be extremely high (as with any NEW product) in 2010.
Flipping will control pricing since those that don't have them will want them and be willing to pay for them.
Production may or may not be high on these but my guess is that the bullion deallers will have lots and lots of orders due to perceived demand and new product excitement!
Once the newness wears off, the production should exceed the demand and prices shpuld come down in 2011 or 2012. Will this create conditional rarities?
2010 pieces stand to lose some profit depending upon interest level. Keeping in mind that those folks who pay $52.00 for their annual silver proof sets may not be able to afford or want to commit to $625 for each of these pieces every year.
Given the fact that this is a new press and new production procedures to be used, I would not be sirprised if some "errors" appear. Will a new generation of Edge Lettering Errors show up on the market? Missing Edge Lettering, Partial Edge Lettering, Weak Edge Lettering? (That'll be interesting to watch!)
Exactly how WILL PCGS grade these since their current slabs won't work? Will they tool up and order new slabs along with new sonic sealing equipment?
IMO, this is a wait and see scenario which is gonna cost folks more that $100 each to play. Throw numismatics into the loop and the price will go up exponentially.
Collecting this stuff is gonna require a lot of money and commitment and personally, I'd rather they channel that silver in 2010-W SAE's and 2010-W SAE Proofs.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Since there are a limited number of distributors who get these items from the government... >>
As far as I can tell, the number of distributors is limited by government requirements for participation. If the number of distributors is a problem, it's a problem created by the government.
<< <i>...based on bullion pricing it would just seem to me that in all fairness and decency they would be restrained from speculating on these as a numismatic item but would simply serve as a conduit to the public in the same manner as they received them >>
If buyers are looking to purchase these based on numismatic factors (specific dates/grades/designs/scarcity), sellers will price them as numismatic items. That's just the way it will work.
Rhetorical question for bullion buyers: Suppose a distributor offered you one of these coins at 5% over melt, with no guarantee of date/design/grade- just authenticity. You get whatever they have in stock, even pieces with flaws such as rim dings and scratches, with no return privilege. Are you a buyer? If not, are you *really* a bullion buyer?
<< <i>Demand will be extremely high (as with any NEW product) in 2010. >>
More speculation::
Initial demand - If sales were to be spread out, then I'd guess there might be a spike in initial demand. If these get released all at once, I'm thinking the "buying 5" costs will temper initial demand and reduce any initial demand spike.
And while there is going to be more demand in the beginning, I'm still leaning towards a "not hot" level of initial demand.
<< <i>Flipping will control pricing since those that don't have them will want them and be willing to pay for them. >>
I wonder about flipping... Initially, I thought if these were in the "not hot" range then that'd put a damper on it. However, these are being sold as bullion through the dealer.net So I wonder how well these will do flipping wise. I'm not familiar with flipping ungraded bullion. At first blush, it doesn't seem possible to profitably flip. (I imagine the graded 70's will do fine flipping wise)
<< <i>I'm thinking the "buying 5" costs will temper initial demand and reduce any initial demand spike. >>
Very unlikely .... Just let history be your guide. Remember the almost immediate sell out of the first 2 Presidential Spousal Gold coins? Or the UHR? Cost has never been a factor with a new product offered by the Mint in the past and I doubt it will in this case.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Yosemite quarters are launching 7/26. I'm hoping the 5 oz's will be out by then -- it would make a great debute date.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
<< <i>Flipping will control pricing since those that don't have them will want them and be willing to pay for them. >>
I wonder about flipping... Initially, I thought if these were in the "not hot" range then that'd put a damper on it. However, these are being sold as bullion through the dealer.net So I wonder how well these will do flipping wise. I'm not familiar with flipping ungraded bullion. At first blush, it doesn't seem possible to profitably flip. (I imagine the graded 70's will do fine flipping wise) >>
So the us mint will not be selling them? That sucks. It look like the dealers are controlling the mint. As long as they keep ordering Silver, Gold we wont see any from the mint.
Careful -- this year 'Old Faithful could bring your pants down in more than one way...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Yosemite quarters are launching 7/26. I'm hoping the 5 oz's will be out by then -- it would make a great debute date. >>
The head of the official Mint distributor we get our eagles from met with the Mint last week. Says he knew less after the meeting than before.
Still no word on pricing, packaging, how many to a package, etc., etc.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
PLEASE keep the forumoids posted with any news. Maybe Grand Canyon?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Probably smart for Apmex to start promoting even if they are out a ways yet.
Odd --- it is listing them with a $1 denomination... What was the legislated denomination? I thought they were $0.25.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Interesting that it is the same denomination as the silver quarters with much less silver. >>
I think they are required to make an exact duplicate of the quarter design but they should have given it a $5 denomination. Maybe they will change that later when they realize how dumb it is.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Interesting that it is the same denomination as the silver quarters with much less silver. >>
I think they are required to make an exact duplicate of the quarter design but they should have given it a $5 denomination. Maybe they will change that later when they realize how dumb it is. >>
They'd have to change the Law governing the production of these.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
We're well into September now, has anybody heard any more on the 5 oz. National Park hockey pucks? The last thing I read said they planned on striking 100,000 of each of this year's issues but were still having minting issues with the new press. Are there any more recent updates?
I see it's going to be a costly end-of-year with the Proof AGEs and the 5Oz rounds.
"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation [...] Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights." - Alan Greenspan
Let's start a totally bogus rumor that the entire 500,000 mintage for the year has already been struck and sold to HSN.......
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
perhaps the idea for a big and thin version monetized at twenty-five cents was on purpose? >>
Not sure what the big deal is concerning the face value. ALL bullion coins have face values that are a small fraction of their bullion value. Since the 1 oz ASE has a face value of $1.00, it would have made more sense to give these 5 oz coins a face value of $5.00 but it's really not that important since these will trade for melt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
I would like one just to have one but that is more on the collector side. It will be interesting to see where they are a year from now...
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year,
or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins. >>
you do have at least a bit of a feel....
I see this program having numerous ups & downs before it's over.
Firstly, making the designs the same as the quarters is a dumb idea. It just is. So is the production of 30 different designs of a 5 oz. silver coin within a 6 year period.
Secondly, with the Silver Eagle Program pumping out 20 to 30 million 1 oz. coins annually now, how long much competing demand for these will there be, given the higher unit cost and a slowing (if not crashing) economy?
Lastly, if the buzz about low silver inventories, diminishing silver stockpiles and Comex manipulation are partly true, there is a chance that silver prices could see a major hiccup sometime during this term of this 6-year program. I have no doubt that volatility in silver prices will cause more than a few whipsaws in both pricing and the mintages in this program.
Let the fun begin!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Lastly, if the buzz about low silver inventories, diminishing silver stockpiles and Comex manipulation are partly true, there is a chance that silver prices could see a major hiccup sometime during this term of this 6-year program. I have no doubt that volatility in silver prices will cause more than a few whipsaws in both pricing and the mintages in this program.
Let the fun begin!
true true
Demand will be extremely high (as with any NEW product) in 2010.
Flipping will control pricing since those that don't have them will want them and be willing to pay for them.
Production may or may not be high on these but my guess is that the bullion deallers will have lots and lots of orders due to perceived demand and new product excitement!
Once the newness wears off, the production should exceed the demand and prices shpuld come down in 2011 or 2012. Will this create conditional rarities?
2010 pieces stand to lose some profit depending upon interest level. Keeping in mind that those folks who pay $52.00 for their annual silver proof sets may not be able to afford or want to commit to $625 for each of these pieces every year.
Given the fact that this is a new press and new production procedures to be used, I would not be sirprised if some "errors" appear. Will a new generation of Edge Lettering Errors show up on the market? Missing Edge Lettering, Partial Edge Lettering, Weak Edge Lettering? (That'll be interesting to watch!)
Exactly how WILL PCGS grade these since their current slabs won't work? Will they tool up and order new slabs along with new sonic sealing equipment?
IMO, this is a wait and see scenario which is gonna cost folks more that $100 each to play. Throw numismatics into the loop and the price will go up exponentially.
Collecting this stuff is gonna require a lot of money and commitment and personally, I'd rather they channel that silver in 2010-W SAE's and 2010-W SAE Proofs.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Since there are a limited number of distributors who get these items from the government... >>
As far as I can tell, the number of distributors is limited by government requirements for participation. If the number of distributors is a problem, it's a problem created by the government.
<< <i>...based on bullion pricing it would just seem to me that in all fairness and decency they would be restrained from speculating on these as a numismatic item but would simply serve as a conduit to the public in the same manner as they received them >>
If buyers are looking to purchase these based on numismatic factors (specific dates/grades/designs/scarcity), sellers will price them as numismatic items. That's just the way it will work.
Rhetorical question for bullion buyers: Suppose a distributor offered you one of these coins at 5% over melt, with no guarantee of date/design/grade- just authenticity. You get whatever they have in stock, even pieces with flaws such as rim dings and scratches, with no return privilege. Are you a buyer? If not, are you *really* a bullion buyer?
<< <i>Demand will be extremely high (as with any NEW product) in 2010. >>
More speculation::
Initial demand - If sales were to be spread out, then I'd guess there might be a spike in initial demand. If these get released all at once, I'm thinking the "buying 5" costs will temper initial demand and reduce any initial demand spike.
And while there is going to be more demand in the beginning, I'm still leaning towards a "not hot" level of initial demand.
<< <i>Flipping will control pricing since those that don't have them will want them and be willing to pay for them. >>
I wonder about flipping... Initially, I thought if these were in the "not hot" range then that'd put a damper on it. However, these are being sold as bullion through the dealer.net So I wonder how well these will do flipping wise. I'm not familiar with flipping ungraded bullion. At first blush, it doesn't seem possible to profitably flip.
(I imagine the graded 70's will do fine flipping wise)
<< <i>I'm thinking the "buying 5" costs will temper initial demand and reduce any initial demand spike. >>
Very unlikely .... Just let history be your guide. Remember the almost immediate sell out of the first 2 Presidential Spousal Gold coins? Or the UHR? Cost has never been a factor with a new product offered by the Mint in the past and I doubt it will in this case.
Yosemite quarters are launching 7/26. I'm hoping the 5 oz's will be out by then -- it would make a great debute date.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I might buy one as a pocket piece . . .
Is that a hockey puck in your pocket or are you on the way to the doctor's office?
The entertainment can never be overdressed....except in burlesque
<< <i>
<< <i>I might buy one as a pocket piece . . .
Is that a hockey puck in your pocket or are you on the way to the doctor's office?
After 4 hours you should call your doctor
<< <i>
I pitty the foo who trys to take my National Park 5oz round. >>
My favorite post of the day, thanks
<< <i>
<< <i>Flipping will control pricing since those that don't have them will want them and be willing to pay for them. >>
I wonder about flipping... Initially, I thought if these were in the "not hot" range then that'd put a damper on it. However, these are being sold as bullion through the dealer.net So I wonder how well these will do flipping wise. I'm not familiar with flipping ungraded bullion. At first blush, it doesn't seem possible to profitably flip.
(I imagine the graded 70's will do fine flipping wise) >>
So the us mint will not be selling them? That sucks. It look like the dealers are controlling the mint. As long as they keep ordering Silver, Gold we wont see any from the mint.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>I might buy one as a pocket piece . . .
Careful -- this year 'Old Faithful could bring your pants down in more than one way...
Flipping these will also require strong fingers . . .
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Any more news on these?
Yosemite quarters are launching 7/26. I'm hoping the 5 oz's will be out by then -- it would make a great debute date. >>
The head of the official Mint distributor we get our eagles from met with the Mint last week. Says he knew less after the meeting than before.
Still no word on pricing, packaging, how many to a package, etc., etc.
TD
PLEASE keep the forumoids posted with any news. Maybe Grand Canyon?
I just saw these today so I signed up for alerts at least. No pricing yet...I'm guessing/betting/hoping no more than $2.50/oz premium....
Mint tubes are 10 pieces.
Odd --- it is listing them with a $1 denomination... What was the legislated denomination? I thought they were $0.25.
I don't see the $1, but they are $0.25 NCLT.
Interesting that it is the same denomination as the silver quarters with much less silver.
<< <i>here is the APMEX listing
I don't see the $1, but they are $0.25 NCLT.
Interesting that it is the same denomination as the silver quarters with much less silver. >>
I think they are required to make an exact duplicate of the quarter design but they should have given it a $5 denomination. Maybe they will change that later when they realize how dumb it is.
<< <i>
<< <i>here is the APMEX listing
I don't see the $1, but they are $0.25 NCLT.
Interesting that it is the same denomination as the silver quarters with much less silver. >>
I think they are required to make an exact duplicate of the quarter design but they should have given it a $5 denomination. Maybe they will change that later when they realize how dumb it is. >>
They'd have to change the Law governing the production of these.
The name is LEE!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>new rumor: November >>
Not surprising at all.
<< <i>new rumor: November >>
I see it's going to be a costly end-of-year with the Proof AGEs and the 5Oz rounds.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>Let's start a totally bogus rumor that the entire 500,000 mintage for the year has already been struck and sold to HSN.......
""ya never know"" eh?
mine is just a very unofficial rumor!
Sounds like production started on Sept 20. From the photo, looks like a decent coin.
Full article is HERE
I wonder what the Apmex alert will say price-wise when it comes through.
perhaps the idea for a big and thin version monetized at twenty-five cents was on purpose?
<< <i>Attack of the giant quarters.
perhaps the idea for a big and thin version monetized at twenty-five cents was on purpose? >>
Not sure what the big deal is concerning the face value. ALL bullion coins have face values that are a small fraction of their bullion value. Since the 1 oz ASE has a face value of $1.00, it would have made more sense to give these 5 oz coins a face value of $5.00 but it's really not that important since these will trade for melt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>So then all that crap about the bill to remove the edge lettering and unrestrict the 3" thing was just that, crap.
I wonder what the Apmex alert will say price-wise when it comes through. >>
The new Bill will probably give the Mint more leaway going forward.
Silver is at $22 today, so melt for the 5oz'er would be $110.
Apmex is selling ASE Bullion for about 15% mark up.
That would be make the 5oz'er $126. If they add a little more, say $130 each = $650 for the set.
<< <i>
<< <i>So then all that crap about the bill to remove the edge lettering and unrestrict the 3" thing was just that, crap.
I wonder what the Apmex alert will say price-wise when it comes through. >>
The new Bill will probably give the Mint more leaway going forward.
Silver is at $22 today, so melt for the 5oz'er would be $110.
Apmex is selling ASE Bullion for about 15% mark up.
That would be make the 5oz'er $126. If they add a little more, say $130 each = $650 for the set. >>
Gotta wonder though if first issue 'hype premium' is going to hit right out of the gate.
Especially for MS70, which considering the size of the coin and its method of distribution, could be a really scarce grade.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The dies are hand finished.
<< <i>The 3-inch bullion pieces are excellent and look like the quarters, except bigger and better detailed.
The dies are hand finished. >>
Will PCGS grade/holder them?