The law mandates: 1. they be made.... so unlike Proof ASEs.... these will not get bumped because of bullion ASE sales 2. each be produced in the same year as the quarters.
That's the best we've got right now. >>
Leave it to the US Congress to screw something else up!
They'll look like the national park quarters except silver and large size. Weight and fineness will be on the edge.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
We all (incl. me) need a dealer who can order this for a decent price. As a collector I'd be paying dealer markup and shipping, then my shipping on top of that. I'd like to avoid all that by finding a dealer who could offer a decent markup and just one shipping cost.
hopefully there is enough collector interest to draw a dealer in to help us out.
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
$125? I hope that includes Express mail. >>
You were expecting to buy them for under malt mebbe????
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
$125? I hope that includes Express mail. >>
You were expecting to buy them for under malt mebbe????
>>
Expecting? No, but hopeful
I do not know what the normal premium is but $6/ounce or $30 seems a little high??? >>
Well, the official distributors expect to make something, the dealers who buy them from the official deals expect to make something, and then you want Express Mail paid for out of the (hypothetical) $30 premium??????
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed. >>
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed. >>
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year. I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year, or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed. >>
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year. I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year, or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period.
TD >>
The handling costs for one 5 oz coin is higher than five 1 oz ASE's? Doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the % markup over melt for several 5 oz coins be equal or less than the % markup over melt for an equal weight of 1 oz ASE's?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
We all (incl. me) need a dealer who can order this for a decent price. As a collector I'd be paying dealer markup and shipping, then my shipping on top of that. I'd like to avoid all that by finding a dealer who could offer a decent markup and just one shipping cost.
hopefully there is enough collector interest to draw a dealer in to help us out. >>
I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. Good news is that might keep the numbers down-bad news is that they cost too much if bullion is what you are after. I wish the mint went direct on these with limited mintage.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. >>
Unless you're figuring on dealers taking money from buyers at gunpoint, whatever price is settled on will involve a strictly voluntary transaction. In other words, the dealer will be no more greedy for your money than you will be greedy for his coin.
If the coins happen to cost more than you think is reasonable, it will be because of buyers driving up demand for the coins. Not that most people will figure this out, of course- if the price is too high, it's always the fault of greedy dealers, don't you know?
< My Lincoln Comm Proofs have spots on them. Not so much on my MS Lincoln Commems. >>
Please post a photo. Sure there are small spots or blemishes on some proof commems, that's what keeps them out of 70 holders. But milkspots, the type of spots that show up after time and grow, tend to be on silver eagles only (both MS and PR). I have never seen a real milkspot on a commem and I've handled thousands of them.
In this case, most dealers won't be greedy since they'll be enough competition in the marketplace to keep them honest. Those that have high prices won't sell very many while those with competitive prices will make a good profit by doing a high volume of business. This is assuming the mint produces enough to meet demand and there are no shortages. I'll be interesting to see how these do in the secondary market.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>In this case, most dealers won't be greedy since they'll be enough competition in the marketplace to keep them honest. >>
Seeing "greedy" and "keep them honest" directed at dealers here seems awfully silly, when dealers do not control either the means of production or the ultimate demand for the coins.
There are a small number of distributors. Just like the oil companies, they will probably resell within a very narrow range not connected to cost. The price will be based on maximizing profit – nothing else.
These are large silver bullion tokens. I’m not sure what to do with them….
<< <i>I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. >>
Unless you're figuring on dealers taking money from buyers at gunpoint, whatever price is settled on will involve a strictly voluntary transaction. In other words, the dealer will be no more greedy for your money than you will be greedy for his coin.
If the coins happen to cost more than you think is reasonable, it will be because of buyers driving up demand for the coins. Not that most people will figure this out, of course- if the price is too high, it's always the fault of greedy dealers, don't you know? >>
I say greedy because I think on bullion the dealers should base their prices on spot plus a standard margin. I think that they will be all too happy to inflate the margin if they think they can and treat them like a numismatic item instead of bullion. That is irritating but ok since I believe that ultimately market forces will keep that in check but buyers may have to shop around more.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I say greedy because I think on bullion the dealers should base their prices on spot plus a standard margin. >>
I think you will find most dealers treat bullion this way. Edited to add... when I say "bullion" here, I mean it in the sense that the seller defines the term, not the buyer. The fact you (in general) consider a particular item to be bullion is in no way binding on others. Everybody is free to make their own determinations regarding the status of these coins, and the fact that you may not agree does not automatically make the other party guilty of greed.
<< <i>I think that they will be all too happy to inflate the margin if they think they can and treat them like a numismatic item instead of bullion. >>
If buyers ask for specific dates/designs, that sounds susiciously like demand for a numismatic item, does it not?
<< <i>That is irritating but ok since I believe that ultimately market forces will keep that in check but buyers may have to shop around more. >>
Yes, I know it can be frustrating when people value their own property higher than you think they should.
@ say $1.49-1.99/oz over spot, as the bullion they are, that's $7.50-10 per for the premium. I'd think that would be acceptible to most buyers and provide enough room for the dist/dealers to make money on a decent quantity play.
Any more than that (double say) and you'd be looking at Aussie/Eur/etc premium pricing and I don't think that would fly too well.
<< <i>These are large silver bullion tokens. I’m not sure what to do with them…. >>
These are not tokens. They are legal tender coins just like the first spouse coins, ASE's, etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed. >>
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year. I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year, or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period.
TD >>
The handling costs for one 5 oz coin is higher than five 1 oz ASE's? Doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the % markup over melt for several 5 oz coins be equal or less than the % markup over melt for an equal weight of 1 oz ASE's? >>
DUH!!!!!
We stock one different current year one ounce silver eagle each year at a cost to us in the neighborhood of $20 each.
We will have to stock FIVE DIFFERENT current year five ounce silver ATB's at a cost to us in excess of $100 each!!!!!
Wake up and smell the napalm!!!!!!!
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
What some might not realize is that the mint had to buy a new press to strike theses things. Congress did not give the mint any money to pay for equipment, installation, training and maintenance -- that had to come out of other things like….?
<< <i>I say greedy because I think on bullion the dealers should base their prices on spot plus a standard margin. >>
I think you will find most dealers treat bullion this way. Edited to add... when I say "bullion" here, I mean it in the sense that the seller defines the term, not the buyer. The fact you (in general) consider a particular item to be bullion is in no way binding on others. Everybody is free to make their own determinations regarding the status of these coins, and the fact that you may not agree does not automatically make the other party guilty of greed.
<< <i>I think that they will be all too happy to inflate the margin if they think they can and treat them like a numismatic item instead of bullion. >>
If buyers ask for specific dates/designs, that sounds susiciously like demand for a numismatic item, does it not?
<< <i>That is irritating but ok since I believe that ultimately market forces will keep that in check but buyers may have to shop around more. >>
Yes, I know it can be frustrating when people value their own property higher than you think they should. >>
I would agree with all of your points concerning most numismatic items but in the case of a bullion distributor I think there is a different expectation. Since there are a limited number of distributors who get these items from the government based on bullion pricing it would just seem to me that in all fairness and decency they would be restrained from speculating on these as a numismatic item but would simply serve as a conduit to the public in the same manner as they received them. I am hoping this is the case.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed. >>
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year. I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year, or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period. >>
And this is what worries me... and was the motivation for the thread:: ""(paraphrased here) dealers... stocking or weary??""
If the demand is small... who is going to stock them and forthose that do what kind of markup will there be... and lastly how much competition will there be in the marketplace to keep prices low??
<< <i>I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. Good news is that might keep the numbers down-bad news is that they cost too much if bullion is what you are after. I wish the mint went direct on these with limited mintage. >>
It's looking like demand won't be very high to begin with.
my concern is for the case of low initial demand.... these may be hard to to find from many dealers (the number of dealers may be low) and so they may end up being potentially costly.
<< <i>In this case, most dealers won't be greedy since they'll be enough competition in the marketplace to keep them honest. Those that have high prices won't sell very many while those with competitive prices will make a good profit by doing a high volume of business. This is assuming the mint produces enough to meet demand and there are no shortages. I'll be interesting to see how these do in the secondary market. >>
I'm interested in the primary market ...
little discussion of them. Not like the Lincoln Commems...
it makes me wonder....
low demand??
(and they are going the bullion route, so I wonder how much sympathy the Mint will have for collector's concerns over investor concerns)
<< <i>What some might not realize is that the mint had to buy a new press to strike theses things. Congress did not give the mint any money to pay for equipment, installation, training and maintenance -- that had to come out of other things like….?
Members of Congress can be incredibly stupid. >>
Wait until Congress comes out with 50 ounce "hubcap" silver coins. That could be a lethal weapon.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed. >>
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year. I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year, or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period. >>
And this is what worries me... and was the motivation for the thread:: ""(paraphrased here) dealers... stocking or weary??""
If the demand is small... who is going to stock them and forthose that do what kind of markup will there be... and lastly how much competition will there be in the marketplace to keep prices low?? >>
When most modern commemorative dollars come out, we buy five of each for inventory and mark them up $5. Some we make money on. Occasionally we hit a home run. Occasionally there is a dud and the original five pieces last for years and ultimately sell at a loss. With this history in mind, how many of these coins should I stock?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
With no mention yet from the mint, it being already June and the fact that 14 million ASEs have already been sold(28 million last year-just astounding since they were averaging in the 10 million range just a few years ago)..depleting the mints supply of bullion.... will these be made at all? Would the mintage of these be low because of supply. These are mandated by law and must be produced. Is that correct?
<< <i>With this history in mind, how many of these coins should I stock? >>
humor...
ok
but I am hoiping there is a "feel" out there for the demand, even if it is just going by the buzz on here. Thus my "feel for it" based question.
My feel right now is these are not nearly as hot as the Lincoln commems (I know these are bullion) and about as hot as the BSAs or maybe a bit less.
How well have you done with the BSAs commems? (they still aren't sold out.) ((and you know your sales history better than I anyway you have no feel for these compared to other recent items??))
<< <i>depleting the mints supply of bullion.... will these be made at all? Would the mintage of these be low because of supply. These are mandated by law and must be produced. Is that correct? >>
You are correct that they are required to be made by law.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>OK
anyone up for a group ordering of a monster box ?? >>
I'm interested. >>
That's 3.
<< <i>
<< <i>when will they be coming out ? >>
The law mandates:
1. they be made.... so unlike Proof ASEs.... these will not get bumped because of bullion ASE sales
2. each be produced in the same year as the quarters.
That's the best we've got right now. >>
Leave it to the US Congress to screw something else up!
<< <i><< OK anyone up for a group ordering of a monster box ?? >> >>
I'm in for the Grand Canyon and Yosemite!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Overdate, BestMR, Weather11AM, TDEC1000, Carew4me, BigMarty58, Coinsarefun, Golfer72, UnknownComic, DMarks, JFoot13, ElKevvo, Truthteller, Duxbutt, TwoSides2aCoin, PerryHall, mhammerman, Papabear, Wingsrule, WTCG, MillerJW, Ciccio, zrlevin, dantheman984, tee135, jdimmick, gsa1fan, jmski52, SUMORADA, guitarwes, bstat1020, pitboss, meltdown, Schmitz7, 30AnvZ28, pragmaticgoat, wondercoin & MkMan123
I am good for 2 as long as price isn't crazy.
Joe
PM me when you get your group together.
I pitty the foo who trys to take my National Park 5oz round.
Thanks,
-Bob
<< <i>Any pics of these "pucks" ?
They'll look like the national park quarters except silver and large size. Weight and fineness will be on the edge.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm only looking for others' interest.
I'm interested, but I am ony a collector.
We all (incl. me) need a dealer who can order this for a decent price. As a collector I'd be paying dealer markup and shipping, then my shipping on top of that. I'd like to avoid all that by finding a dealer who could offer a decent markup and just one shipping cost.
hopefully there is enough collector interest to draw a dealer in to help us out.
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
You were expecting to buy them for under malt mebbe????
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
You were expecting to buy them for under malt mebbe????
Expecting? No, but hopeful
I do not know what the normal premium is but $6/ounce or $30 seems a little high???
<< <i>I do not know what the normal premium is but $6/ounce or $30 seems a little high??? >>
If you have ever bought a silver commem or ASE from the mint you have likely paid more than $6 per ounce over spot price.
The entertainment can never be overdressed....except in burlesque
<< <i>
<< <i>I do not know what the normal premium is but $6/ounce or $30 seems a little high??? >>
If you have ever bought a silver commem or ASE from the mint you have likely paid more than $6 per ounce over spot price. >>
these will be bullion. $5/toz is very high over spot for a markup.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
You were expecting to buy them for under malt mebbe????
Expecting? No, but hopeful
I do not know what the normal premium is but $6/ounce or $30 seems a little high??? >>
Well, the official distributors expect to make something, the dealers who buy them from the official deals expect to make something, and then you want Express Mail paid for out of the (hypothetical) $30 premium??????
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year.
I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year,
or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year.
I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year,
or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period.
TD >>
The handling costs for one 5 oz coin is higher than five 1 oz ASE's? Doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the % markup over melt for several 5 oz coins be equal or less than the % markup over melt for an equal weight of 1 oz ASE's?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I need to clarify...
I'm only looking for others' interest.
I'm interested, but I am ony a collector.
We all (incl. me) need a dealer who can order this for a decent price. As a collector I'd be paying dealer markup and shipping, then my shipping on top of that. I'd like to avoid all that by finding a dealer who could offer a decent markup and just one shipping cost.
hopefully there is enough collector interest to draw a dealer in to help us out. >>
I'd be interested in one or two of each.
John
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm in for one as long as the price does not exceed $125 per puck. >>
Wake up & face reality .... on the other hand, you can always wait for APMEX to put them "on Sale" for $5.49 per oz over spot.
<< <i>I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. >>
Unless you're figuring on dealers taking money from buyers at gunpoint, whatever price is settled on will involve a strictly voluntary transaction. In other words, the dealer will be no more greedy for your money than you will be greedy for his coin.
If the coins happen to cost more than you think is reasonable, it will be because of buyers driving up demand for the coins. Not that most people will figure this out, of course- if the price is too high, it's always the fault of greedy dealers, don't you know?
Please post a photo. Sure there are small spots or blemishes on some proof commems, that's what keeps them out of 70 holders. But milkspots, the type of spots that show up after time and grow, tend to be on silver eagles only (both MS and PR). I have never seen a real milkspot on a commem and I've handled thousands of them.
--Jerry
If I remember, i will try to post an image.
Box of 20
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>In this case, most dealers won't be greedy since they'll be enough competition in the marketplace to keep them honest. >>
Seeing "greedy" and "keep them honest" directed at dealers here seems awfully silly, when dealers do not control either the means of production or the ultimate demand for the coins.
I know I shouldn't be surprised, but still...
These are large silver bullion tokens. I’m not sure what to do with them….
<< <i>
<< <i>I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. >>
Unless you're figuring on dealers taking money from buyers at gunpoint, whatever price is settled on will involve a strictly voluntary transaction. In other words, the dealer will be no more greedy for your money than you will be greedy for his coin.
If the coins happen to cost more than you think is reasonable, it will be because of buyers driving up demand for the coins. Not that most people will figure this out, of course- if the price is too high, it's always the fault of greedy dealers, don't you know?
I say greedy because I think on bullion the dealers should base their prices on spot plus a standard margin. I think that they will be all too happy to inflate the margin if they think they can and treat them like a numismatic item instead of bullion. That is irritating but ok since I believe that ultimately market forces will keep that in check but buyers may have to shop around more.
<< <i>I say greedy because I think on bullion the dealers should base their prices on spot plus a standard margin. >>
I think you will find most dealers treat bullion this way. Edited to add... when I say "bullion" here, I mean it in the sense that the seller defines the term, not the buyer. The fact you (in general) consider a particular item to be bullion is in no way binding on others. Everybody is free to make their own determinations regarding the status of these coins, and the fact that you may not agree does not automatically make the other party guilty of greed.
<< <i>I think that they will be all too happy to inflate the margin if they think they can and treat them like a numismatic item instead of bullion. >>
If buyers ask for specific dates/designs, that sounds susiciously like demand for a numismatic item, does it not?
<< <i>That is irritating but ok since I believe that ultimately market forces will keep that in check but buyers may have to shop around more. >>
Yes, I know it can be frustrating when people value their own property higher than you think they should.
Any more than that (double say) and you'd be looking at Aussie/Eur/etc premium pricing and I don't think that would fly too well.
<< <i>These are large silver bullion tokens. I’m not sure what to do with them…. >>
These are not tokens. They are legal tender coins just like the first spouse coins, ASE's, etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year.
I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year,
or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period.
TD >>
The handling costs for one 5 oz coin is higher than five 1 oz ASE's? Doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the % markup over melt for several 5 oz coins be equal or less than the % markup over melt for an equal weight of 1 oz ASE's? >>
DUH!!!!!
We stock one different current year one ounce silver eagle each year at a cost to us in the neighborhood of $20 each.
We will have to stock FIVE DIFFERENT current year five ounce silver ATB's at a cost to us in excess of $100 each!!!!!
Wake up and smell the napalm!!!!!!!
TD
Members of Congress can be incredibly stupid.
<< <i>
<< <i>I say greedy because I think on bullion the dealers should base their prices on spot plus a standard margin. >>
I think you will find most dealers treat bullion this way. Edited to add... when I say "bullion" here, I mean it in the sense that the seller defines the term, not the buyer. The fact you (in general) consider a particular item to be bullion is in no way binding on others. Everybody is free to make their own determinations regarding the status of these coins, and the fact that you may not agree does not automatically make the other party guilty of greed.
<< <i>I think that they will be all too happy to inflate the margin if they think they can and treat them like a numismatic item instead of bullion. >>
If buyers ask for specific dates/designs, that sounds susiciously like demand for a numismatic item, does it not?
<< <i>That is irritating but ok since I believe that ultimately market forces will keep that in check but buyers may have to shop around more. >>
Yes, I know it can be frustrating when people value their own property higher than you think they should.
I would agree with all of your points concerning most numismatic items but in the case of a bullion distributor I think there is a different expectation. Since there are a limited number of distributors who get these items from the government based on bullion pricing it would just seem to me that in all fairness and decency they would be restrained from speculating on these as a numismatic item but would simply serve as a conduit to the public in the same manner as they received them. I am hoping this is the case.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year.
I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year,
or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period. >>
And this is what worries me... and was the motivation for the thread:: ""(paraphrased here) dealers... stocking or weary??""
If the demand is small... who is going to stock them and forthose that do what kind of markup will there be... and lastly how much competition will there be in the marketplace to keep prices low??
<< <i>I am expecting dealers to get greedy on these. Good news is that might keep the numbers down-bad news is that they cost too much if bullion is what you are after. I wish the mint went direct on these with limited mintage. >>
It's looking like demand won't be very high to begin with.
my concern is for the case of low initial demand.... these may be hard to to find from many dealers (the number of dealers may be low) and so they may end up being potentially costly.
<< <i>In this case, most dealers won't be greedy since they'll be enough competition in the marketplace to keep them honest. Those that have high prices won't sell very many while those with competitive prices will make a good profit by doing a high volume of business. This is assuming the mint produces enough to meet demand and there are no shortages. I'll be interesting to see how these do in the secondary market. >>
I'm interested in the primary market ...
little discussion of them. Not like the Lincoln Commems...
it
makes
me
wonder....
low demand??
(and they are going the bullion route, so I wonder how much sympathy the Mint will have for collector's concerns over investor concerns)
<< <i>What some might not realize is that the mint had to buy a new press to strike theses things. Congress did not give the mint any money to pay for equipment, installation, training and maintenance -- that had to come out of other things like….?
Members of Congress can be incredibly stupid. >>
Wait until Congress comes out with 50 ounce "hubcap" silver coins. That could be a lethal weapon.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I thought bullion was supposed to trade near the current spot prices. Plus or minus a few percent for the profit margins. I was guessing that with a $19 spot and a 5% markup you would have a $100 bullion coin. Maybe $105 with a second middleman. Obviously my thinking is flawed.
Agree. They're bullion coins and shouldn't cost more than what five ASE's cost from the same distributers that also sell the ASE's. >>
We move 10,000+ one ounce silver eagles in a year.
I doubt we will sell 10,000+ five ounce silver quarters in a year,
or even the same number of ounces, 2,000+ coins.
The handling costs per coin are going to be higher. Period. >>
And this is what worries me... and was the motivation for the thread:: ""(paraphrased here) dealers... stocking or weary??""
If the demand is small... who is going to stock them and forthose that do what kind of markup will there be... and lastly how much competition will there be in the marketplace to keep prices low?? >>
When most modern commemorative dollars come out, we buy five of each for inventory and mark them up $5. Some we make money on. Occasionally we hit a home run.
Occasionally there is a dud and the original five pieces last for years and ultimately sell at a loss.
With this history in mind, how many of these coins should I stock?
Box of 20
<< <i>With this history in mind, how many of these coins should I stock? >>
humor...
ok
but I am hoiping there is a "feel" out there for the demand, even if it is just going by the buzz on here. Thus my "feel for it" based question.
My feel right now is these are not nearly as hot as the Lincoln commems (I know these are bullion) and about as hot as the BSAs or maybe a bit less.
How well have you done with the BSAs commems? (they still aren't sold out.)
((and you know your sales history better than I anyway
<< <i>depleting the mints supply of bullion.... will these be made at all? Would the mintage of these be low because of supply. These are mandated by law and must be produced. Is that correct? >>
You are correct that they are required to be made by law.