I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently.
<< <i>I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently. >>
<< <i>I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently. >>
Very reasonable guess; I've suspected something like this ever since NGC was providing all those coins for that awful, spammy, ovepriced shop-at-home TV show. How such a mint collaboration would "change things forever" isn't clear to me, but your guess is very perceptive.
I can see it all now: PCGS quality-control graders stationed at the mint, personally approving each and every coin! And priced at only 10 X face...
<< <i>I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently. >>
You teamed up with NGC to make the 100 point grading scale, so now we all have to resubmit our coins to find the new grade! >>
I think PCGS knows that would be a disaster for them. The anger that would result from an obvious self enriching move would backfire to the point of setting TPG back to the stone age.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
From the foul pole in deep left field: The Boy Scout Commemoratives are set to be released on March 23rd & on March 25th Pcgs will announce that they've bought them all and that they are now the official authorized dealer of modern commemoratives.
PCGS calls it quits and all PCGS slabbed coins immediately skyrocket in value!
bumanchu >>
If PCGS went out of business, their guarantees would be null and void. How would that help the value of their slabs?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PCGS will be announce that the US Mint has authorized them to grade/slab coins prior to shipment from the mint. Now if you want a "70" from the mint you'll just buy one.
I read thru 20 some pages, but couldn't go any longer......."way out in left field" ..."flip another switch" ...... hmmmmm.
FREE grading. Certification would be the fee generator, but anybody could submit coins to be graded for free (not slabbed, too costly, but an on-line grade), and the submitter could then decide whether to continue getting the coin certified. This greatly expands the customer base, and gets an awful lot of hoards, varieties, etc out into the market.
The certification would also indicate specifically where the points are deducted, using a coding system similar to that used now for enivronmental damage, altered surfaces, questionable color (THAT'S NOT A GRADE & WE SHOULDN'T PAY FOR THAT DESIGNATION!!! - IT'S EITHER 'AT' OR IT ISN'T - sorry, that's a pet peeve); but include ALL aspects of grading, such as counterfeit, poor strike, rim damage, uneven luster, surface nicks, etc.
The coding itself would be available on the pcgs website and/or in print, and would deter counterfeiting, because by looking up the code, you would know almost exactly what the coin looks like. This would make the 'sight unseen' market even more secure, and lead to an exchange traded ETF for pcgs certified coins (another fee generator), which is something that others have mentioned.... but you would need more coins on the market place to fund the ETF, thus the need for free grading service. The latest issue of pcgs e-zine bemoans the lack of fresh material available for dealers & collectors to fill their want lists, what better way to get those coins into the marketplace?
No new grading scale, no chip-embedded holder (but most likely an improved version) - all ideas that David shot down already.
PM me for my mailing address, HRH!!
Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on Earth to be young at heart? And as rich as you are, it's much better by far, to be young at heart!
I predict that we will see coins graded as ms will have .25 -.50 - .75 added to their grade . This in itself will give the collector a reassurance and possibly eliminate that sticker THAT I KNOW YOU HATE on your slabs. Another possibility is you will grade the coins based on strike- luster - and eye appeal (individual assets of the particular coin)
PCGS will record a microscopic "surface scan" of the coin that can be used as the coin's fingerprint. Each new submission can be compared against the database to determine if it's a resubmission. Can also be used to help identify stolen property, determine die markers as the database grows, discover new varieties, etc.
PCGS will start to include grader's notes with the online cert lookup. Notes would include reasons why the grade was given, possible info about the pedigree, comments on coloring, etc.
PCGS will begin a color coding system for their slabs. The label or slab itself will be colored differently based on factors such as grade, finish, series, or rarity.
PCGS will provide "Virtual Slabs" along with all real slabs. When your coin is graded, you will also receive a High Resolution 3-D image of the obv and rev printed in duplex on High Quality card stock. You will also have access to an electronic copy of the card. You can keep your coin safely locked up, and still be able to admire it whenever you want.
PCGS among others will develop an independent agency in charge of working with law enforcement to enforce consumer protection of numismatics. A Numismatics bill of rights with an agency in charge of protection of it.
A $1000 challenge from David Hall?? Well, I guess that's worth my two cents so here goes...
** $1,000,000 Guarantee on ALL Coins (!) **
In order for this to be possible, PCGS will have to announce a slew of improvements in Coin grading technology, the likes of which I can only begin to imagine (though many other posters have tried to).
David Hall is man who is known for putting his money where his mouth is, and my guess is that for the first time, the technology now exists to do it in such a big way. This will solve the counterfeiting problem once and for all, and launch coin collecting into it's rightful place as the most prestigious of all investment opportunities.
You are going to start up a coin type of library for coins, with many high end rarity coins. You send in one of your coins on loan to the library, and you can choose one to study provided from the other members available libraries.
So you can have your cake and eat it too.
If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
<< <i>pcgs will be certifying the 10 1933 double eagles already looked at by ngc. >>
You consider that to be "The Big One"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1) PCGS buys sophisticated imaging equipment. 2) PCGS trains 5-10 high tier coin companies like "Legend" to grade coins, even sending their graders to work with them for a couple of months and gives them the imaging equipment. 3) Any member can now submit their coins to these companies who in turn will grade them and encapsulate them in PCGS holders. Before they can do this they will grade it themselves and then send the image to PCGS to receive the final ok for the grade. 4) The image of the coin taken will be stored of course and available on-line at no extra cost. 5) The image will also go into a "face recognition" type of system where points on the coin (marks) are gathered. Every coin is unique, thus each coin and its grade, can be found using this system.
Benefits of this system:
1) By using this "recognition" system, these dealers will be able to "run" the coin on their system to determine if it has been submitted before. If it has, a picture of it will come up and the coin will be reviewed to see if it has been "doctored" in any way. 2) Since PCGS has a grade assigned to a coin that has been through their system, crackouts will become a thing of the past. Even if you crack it, send it to NGC and try to re-cross it, PCGS will have an image of it and only grade it up to that grade. For upgrades, coins will need to be sent into PCGS just as they are now for "grade review". In essence, Newport Beach could stop grading altogether. 3) With reduced crackouts, populations will become more accurate and meaningful. 4) Collectors will receive faster turnaround times with 4-5 dealers they can send their coins to.
That's my wild guess. On a lesser note, the use of a recognition system in some way to produce some of the benefits as described above.
Probably been said before, - but I'm not reading over 500 posts to find out... My personal check for a $1000 to Mr. Hall, if "The Big One" is a way to stop the counterfeiters from ruining our hobby.
PCGS will begin packaging their slabs with a stick of chewing gum for the kiddies (ala baseball cards of yore), and both gum and slab will be neatly packaged in a multi-purpose, yet single-use condom (for Dad)/ balloon (for Junior).
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
Here are some interesting ideas that I came up with: - A visual population report much the that employed by Dominion Coin Grading Service (DCGS). The coins that just “make” registry caliber can be differentiated in terms of eye appeal from those that are truly registry caliber. A side by side comparison would probably fuel the registry “rage”; - New Multi-Coin holders - A new holder that is: o More secure o Scratch resistant like NGC’s new holder o Offer UV/general light/fading resistance to mitigate damage from sunlight o Holders that neutralize the ambient air – perhaps including an intercept shield core; o That allows differentiation from pre-2010 coins (along with a change /clarification with regards to PCGS’s new copper guarantee) o Slabs that reduce the number of break-outs (i.e. the coins could only be removed by PCGS - Increasing security by allowing the optional GPS chips that can be tracked with special software, much like the software that currently exists for laptops; - Specialized labels, perhaps with individual pedigree or personal inventory number as assigned by the submitter, allowing for custom bar-codes that can be used by collectors with sufficient programming experience to create their own inventory software (using Visual Basic, C++, or the like) - seriously - ANACS did publish the Visual Basic code required to read ANACS slabs at one point; - Pre-screen options for everyone and not just dealers; - new fees schedules, allowing for bulk submission; - Attribution of all varieties, including VAM, OMMS, RPMs, Blender, Overton numbers; - New "star" designation or other analogous idea; - coin collecting software or web app tantamount or analogous to Heritage's "My Collection"; - A registry that actually allows NGC coins (yeah right) ; - PCGS/CAC or PCGS/NGC merger? (not likely, but it would be an interesting idea although it would defeat the purpose of fourth party grading - at least with regards to the CAC merger); - A conservation service like NCS; - Full hand designation for Liberty Walking Half Dollars (I'm not kidding); - Fixing the FBL designation so that it is actually meaningful (i.e. using all 6 bell lines instead of only using the bottom three); - Replacing FS, FT, FBL, FSB/FB, FH, or other strike designation with a ubiquitous full detail "FD" designation and applying it to all sharply struck coins, regardless of the series; - Denoting the amount of reflectivity (as per the number of inches of reflection using newspaper type) on PL and DMPL/DPL designations; - Assigning, in addition to the Sheldon grade, a score for strike, luster, contact marks, etc., on a 1-5 sub-scale; - Grading of ancient coins; - Denoting both the technical grade and the market grade of a coin; - Certifying proof, mint, and GSA sets in their original holders; - Revival of the "rattler" holder; - Issuing a certificate of authenticity with a verbal and photo-description;
If they are reading, I am familiar with Visual Basic, C++, and a lot of other useful technologies - you're welcome to consult with me.
Oh yeah - I'm sure someone else has already mentioned this, but I'm betting that they will add image verification for all certified coins. This is hardly the "Big One" but is still an interesting idea...
Dont think this is the big one, but in any event, they should be adding a secure 2 barcode to every slab. The leader in this is Scanlife or Scanbuy Link
This would allow any person with a cell phone to scan a pcgs slab and it can link them directly to the pcgs certification to verify that the coin matches what what is listed on the slab.
The best part is the software is free to download, and is already preinstalled on many new cell phones, and no additional hardware is needed by consumers. You can download it for free here Link
Comments
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently. >>
Save the "Flippers"
Or is it Whales
Joe
<< <i>I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently. >>
Very reasonable guess; I've suspected something like this ever since NGC was providing all those coins for that awful, spammy, ovepriced shop-at-home TV show. How such a mint collaboration would "change things forever" isn't clear to me, but your guess is very perceptive.
I can see it all now: PCGS quality-control graders stationed at the mint, personally approving each and every coin! And priced at only 10 X face...
<< <i>I'm convinced now that THE BIG ONE will involve a collaboration between the U.S. Mint and PCGS to level the playing field for modern crap, and put a lot of money in the coffers of both. I'm not going to be more specific other than to state that the belief stems from a post that was deleted recently. >>
I hope not that sounds rather anticlimactic.
Yogi Berra
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
You teamed up with NGC to make the 100 point grading scale, so now we all have to resubmit our coins to find the new grade!
Don't hate on Moderns. Your Kids and Grandkids are going to pay out the A$$ for them when they're your age!
<< <i>Here's my guess:
You teamed up with NGC to make the 100 point grading scale, so now we all have to resubmit our coins to find the new grade! >>
I think PCGS knows that would be a disaster for them. The anger that would result from an obvious self enriching move would backfire to the point of setting TPG back to the stone age.
Way out in left field.......
PCGS calls it quits and all PCGS slabbed coins immediately skyrocket in value!
bumanchu
<< <i>Way out in left field.......
PCGS calls it quits and all PCGS slabbed coins immediately skyrocket in value!
bumanchu >>
If PCGS went out of business, their guarantees would be null and void. How would that help the value of their slabs?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Way out in left field.......
PCGS calls it quits and all PCGS slabbed coins immediately skyrocket in value!
bumanchu >>
If PCGS went out of business, their guarantees would be null and void. How would that help the value of their slabs? >>
Good point....
The coins would not be helped, but the rabid slab collectors would go into a short lived frenzy.
New Guess!
coins made from Transparent Aluminum
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>I still like the idea of PCGS/Collectors Universe sponsoring a Ken Burns Coins documentary to be featured on PBS and videos could be sold >>
Perhaps a good idea, but not a game changer or Big One™.
FREE grading. Certification would be the fee generator, but anybody could submit coins to be graded for free (not slabbed, too costly, but an on-line grade), and the submitter could then decide whether to continue getting the coin certified. This greatly expands the customer base, and gets an awful lot of hoards, varieties, etc out into the market.
The certification would also indicate specifically where the points are deducted, using a coding system similar to that used now for enivronmental damage, altered surfaces, questionable color (THAT'S NOT A GRADE & WE SHOULDN'T PAY FOR THAT DESIGNATION!!! - IT'S EITHER 'AT' OR IT ISN'T - sorry, that's a pet peeve); but include ALL aspects of grading, such as counterfeit, poor strike, rim damage, uneven luster, surface nicks, etc.
The coding itself would be available on the pcgs website and/or in print, and would deter counterfeiting, because by looking up the code, you would know almost exactly what the coin looks like. This would make the 'sight unseen' market even more secure, and lead to an exchange traded ETF for pcgs certified coins (another fee generator), which is something that others have mentioned.... but you would need more coins on the market place to fund the ETF, thus the need for free grading service. The latest issue of pcgs e-zine bemoans the lack of fresh material available for dealers & collectors to fill their want lists, what better way to get those coins into the marketplace?
No new grading scale, no chip-embedded holder (but most likely an improved version) - all ideas that David shot down already.
PM me for my mailing address, HRH!!
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
PCGS will start to include grader's notes with the online cert lookup. Notes would include reasons why the grade was given, possible info about the pedigree, comments on coloring, etc.
PCGS will begin a color coding system for their slabs. The label or slab itself will be colored differently based on factors such as grade, finish, series, or rarity.
PCGS will provide "Virtual Slabs" along with all real slabs. When your coin is graded, you will also receive a High Resolution 3-D image of the obv and rev printed in duplex on High Quality card stock. You will also have access to an electronic copy of the card. You can keep your coin safely locked up, and still be able to admire it whenever you want.
1. PCGS will move away from the 70 point grading scale to something different.
2. PCGS will offer "fractional" grades for BU coins (such as MS-65.5).
3. PCGS will begin to rate more subjective factors such as toning and eye-appeal.
or
4. Staring in March you send your coins to PCGS for grading and they keep them, but send you a nice "thank you" letter.
5. PCGS will fire all human graders and replace them with highly trained monkeys.
6. With every submission of 10 coins or more you get a free Hawaiian shirt so you can look just like David Hall
7. All PCGS slabs will have a built-in MP3 player.
8. PCGS will declare war on China.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
<< <i>A few idea on what this could be:
1. PCGS will move away from the 70 point grading scale to something different.
2. PCGS will offer "fractional" grades for BU coins (such as MS-65.5).
3. PCGS will begin to rate more subjective factors such as toning and eye-appeal.
or
4. Staring in March you send your coins to PCGS for grading and they keep them, but send you a nice "thank you" letter.
5. PCGS will fire all human graders and replace them with highly trained monkeys.
6. With every submission of 10 coins or more you get a free Hawaiian shirt so you can look just like David Hall
7. All PCGS slabs will have a built-in MP3 player.
8. PCGS will declare war on China. >>
Noticing that HRH has now abandoned his announcement thread is an indicator to me that someone has guessed correctly.
** $1,000,000 Guarantee on ALL Coins (!) **
In order for this to be possible, PCGS will have to announce a slew of improvements in Coin grading technology, the likes of which I can only begin to imagine (though many other posters have tried to).
David Hall is man who is known for putting his money where his mouth is, and my guess is that for the first time, the technology now exists to do it in such a big way. This will solve the counterfeiting problem once and for all, and launch coin collecting into it's rightful place as the most prestigious of all investment opportunities.
President, Superior Bullion LLC
P.O. Box 8303, Cincinnati, OH, 45208-0303
www.superiorbullion.com
t minus
38 Days
So you can have your cake and eat it too.
<< <i>pcgs will be certifying the 10 1933 double eagles already looked at by ngc. >>
You consider that to be "The Big One"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Here's my guess.
1) PCGS buys sophisticated imaging equipment.
2) PCGS trains 5-10 high tier coin companies like "Legend" to grade coins, even sending their graders to work with them for a couple of months and gives them the imaging equipment.
3) Any member can now submit their coins to these companies who in turn will grade them and encapsulate them in PCGS holders. Before they can do this they will grade it themselves and then send the image to PCGS to receive the final ok for the grade.
4) The image of the coin taken will be stored of course and available on-line at no extra cost.
5) The image will also go into a "face recognition" type of system where points on the coin (marks) are gathered. Every coin is unique, thus each coin and its grade, can be found using this system.
Benefits of this system:
1) By using this "recognition" system, these dealers will be able to "run" the coin on their system to determine if it has been submitted before. If it has, a picture of it will come up and the coin will be reviewed to see if it has been "doctored" in any way.
2) Since PCGS has a grade assigned to a coin that has been through their system, crackouts will become a thing of the past. Even if you crack it, send it to NGC and try to re-cross it, PCGS will have an image of it and only grade it up to that grade. For upgrades, coins will need to be sent into PCGS just as they are now for "grade review". In essence, Newport Beach could stop grading altogether.
3) With reduced crackouts, populations will become more accurate and meaningful.
4) Collectors will receive faster turnaround times with 4-5 dealers they can send their coins to.
That's my wild guess. On a lesser note, the use of a recognition system in some way to produce some of the benefits as described above.
Champagne and roses will be replaced by EZest and Morgans
<< <i>I wish I could go to sleep tonight and wake up on March 25.
I would rather go to sleep on March 25th and wake up today.
WH
PCGS will give customers what they want...
pre-paid shipping for Spot Review!
a guess a day and maybe the grand will come my way...
My personal check for a $1000 to Mr. Hall, if "The Big One" is a way to stop the counterfeiters from ruining our hobby.
<< <i>we really need a countdown
t minus
38 Days >>
37 Days
HRH will offer a $1,000 check to anyone who creates the database.
<< <i>I wish I could go to sleep tonight and wake up on March 25.
Thats what Michael Jackson tryed to do
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
- A visual population report much the that employed by Dominion Coin Grading Service (DCGS). The coins that just “make” registry caliber can be differentiated in terms of eye appeal from those that are truly registry caliber. A side by side comparison would probably fuel the registry “rage”;
- New Multi-Coin holders
- A new holder that is:
o More secure
o Scratch resistant like NGC’s new holder
o Offer UV/general light/fading resistance to mitigate damage from sunlight
o Holders that neutralize the ambient air – perhaps including an intercept shield core;
o That allows differentiation from pre-2010 coins (along with a change /clarification with regards to PCGS’s new copper guarantee)
o Slabs that reduce the number of break-outs (i.e. the coins could only be removed by PCGS
- Increasing security by allowing the optional GPS chips that can be tracked with special software, much like the software that currently exists for laptops;
- Specialized labels, perhaps with individual pedigree or personal inventory number as assigned by the submitter, allowing for custom bar-codes that can be used by collectors with sufficient programming experience to create their own inventory software (using Visual Basic, C++, or the like) - seriously - ANACS did publish the Visual Basic code required to read ANACS slabs at one point;
- Pre-screen options for everyone and not just dealers;
- new fees schedules, allowing for bulk submission;
- Attribution of all varieties, including VAM, OMMS, RPMs, Blender, Overton numbers;
- New "star" designation or other analogous idea;
- coin collecting software or web app tantamount or analogous to Heritage's "My Collection";
- A registry that actually allows NGC coins (yeah right) ;
- PCGS/CAC or PCGS/NGC merger? (not likely, but it would be an interesting idea although it would defeat the purpose of fourth party grading - at least with regards to the CAC merger);
- A conservation service like NCS;
- Full hand designation for Liberty Walking Half Dollars (I'm not kidding);
- Fixing the FBL designation so that it is actually meaningful (i.e. using all 6 bell lines instead of only using the bottom three);
- Replacing FS, FT, FBL, FSB/FB, FH, or other strike designation with a ubiquitous full detail "FD" designation and applying it to all sharply struck coins, regardless of the series;
- Denoting the amount of reflectivity (as per the number of inches of reflection using newspaper type) on PL and DMPL/DPL designations;
- Assigning, in addition to the Sheldon grade, a score for strike, luster, contact marks, etc., on a 1-5 sub-scale;
- Grading of ancient coins;
- Denoting both the technical grade and the market grade of a coin;
- Certifying proof, mint, and GSA sets in their original holders;
- Revival of the "rattler" holder;
- Issuing a certificate of authenticity with a verbal and photo-description;
If they are reading, I am familiar with Visual Basic, C++, and a lot of other useful technologies - you're welcome to consult with me.
This would allow any person with a cell phone to scan a pcgs slab and it can link them directly to the pcgs certification to verify that the coin matches what what is listed on the slab.
The best part is the software is free to download, and is already preinstalled on many new cell phones, and no additional hardware is needed by consumers. You can download it for free here Link
Cashback from Mr. Rebates