<< <i>This series possibly a World Series preview? >>
You'll get a preview of the representative from the American League, yes. >>
Yea cause the Phillies beatup on a different AL team last season in the WS - it'll be fun this season beating up on a different team...ya know...variety being the spice of life and all that.
Yeah, I wasn't comparing Drew to Nixon when it comes to heart. I was only comparing numbers, plus Drew covers more ground in the outfield and runs the bases better. Nixon was clutch and all heart, but I think both are comparable in ability.
Welcome Phillies fan(s) to our wonderful thread. You will be treated with dignity and respect throughout this lovely series we have with your wonderful ballclub. We hope you enjoy your games with us, as we are a professional ballclub that respects the game and it's fans. Good luck to you sir(s).
<< <i>I am not a fan of designating one person as a team's closer, but apparently all of MLB sees it another way. Reason I bring it up here is that the Yankees could have held their lead, or at least given themselves their best shot to do so, by following their best starting pitcher (Sabathia) with their best reliever (Rivera). It was obvious early in the 8th that CC was out of gas. Why not bring in Rivera to face the top of the Sox order, saw off a bat or two, and maybe get a double play? If he succeeds and has enough left for the 9th, great. If he is spent, then a lesser reliever comes in to face lesser hitters. I don't blame Girardi as this is baseball's "groupthink" practice. >>
I agree -- I am surprised a manager like LaRussa has not tried pitching their best bullpen pitcher (i.e. their "closer") against the best part of the lineup when they are up in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning, instead of saving the "closer" for the 9th, even if the bottom of the order is up. I would think that, over the long haul, a team would win more games. Of course the closers would hate it, because they get thier big contracts from "saves" even if they are with a 3 run lead against the bottom of the order in the 9th inning.
<< <i>Yeah, I wasn't comparing Drew to Nixon when it comes to heart. I was only comparing numbers, plus Drew covers more ground in the outfield and runs the bases better. Nixon was clutch and all heart, but I think both are comparable in ability.
Welcome Phillies fan(s) to our wonderful thread. You will be treated with dignity and respect throughout this lovely series we have with your wonderful ballclub. We hope you enjoy your games with us, as we are a professional ballclub that respects the game and it's fans. Good luck to you sir(s). >>
I've always respected the Red Sox as a team, and of course they've had some great players over their many years including one of the greatest of all time.
Similarly, both them and the Phillies seem to have shed their reputation as losers, and that's certainly a good thing, especially when the recent New York teams seem to be cementing a reputation as choke artists.
<< <i>Yeah, I wasn't comparing Drew to Nixon when it comes to heart. I was only comparing numbers, plus Drew covers more ground in the outfield and runs the bases better. Nixon was clutch and all heart, but I think both are comparable in ability.
Welcome Phillies fan(s) to our wonderful thread. You will be treated with dignity and respect throughout this lovely series we have with your wonderful ballclub. We hope you enjoy your games with us, as we are a professional ballclub that respects the game and it's fans. Good luck to you sir(s). >>
I've always respected the Red Sox as a team, and of course they've had some great players over their many years including one of the greatest of all time.
Similarly, both them and the Phillies seem to have shed their reputation as losers, and that's certainly a good thing, especially when the recent New York teams seem to be cementing a reputation as choke artists. >>
Here's to a great weekend series between the last 2 World Champs. Should be fun!!!
<< <i>I agree -- I am surprised a manager like LaRussa has not tried pitching their best bullpen pitcher (i.e. their "closer") against the best part of the lineup when they are up in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning, instead of saving the "closer" for the 9th, even if the bottom of the order is up. I would think that, over the long haul, a team would win more games. Of course the closers would hate it, because they get thier big contracts from "saves" even if they are with a 3 run lead against the bottom of the order in the 9th inning. >>
Isn't LaRusssa one of the guys most often credited with the architecture of the current thinking on pitching? It seems like he was the guy that really developed and popularized the idea of a 6 or 7 inning starter followed by 1 or 2 relievers and then a closer.
I think there definitely are times when it helps a team to bring in their best reliever early even if that happens to be their closer, but I think that there are so many other factors that prevent that from happening. Factors such as pitch counts (even for relievers) and, I think, managers wanting to avoid being second-guessed in the media.
My humble opinion is that the Red Sox have figured out the best way to handle this. They don't often need to bring Papelbon in early because the Red Sox have stacked their bullpen with 4 or 5 guys that could be a closer for another team. A lot of people will complain that the game has changed (and rightly so). Starting pitchers don't expect to finish the games they start anymore. What we have now is a game where the entire bullpen is more important than it has ever been before. Credit should be given to the Red Sox for accepting this and working to achieve a top tier pen. The Yankees, on the other hand, still have some work to do in that area.
<< <i>I am not a fan of designating one person as a team's closer, but apparently all of MLB sees it another way. Reason I bring it up here is that the Yankees could have held their lead, or at least given themselves their best shot to do so, by following their best starting pitcher (Sabathia) with their best reliever (Rivera). It was obvious early in the 8th that CC was out of gas. Why not bring in Rivera to face the top of the Sox order, saw off a bat or two, and maybe get a double play? If he succeeds and has enough left for the 9th, great. If he is spent, then a lesser reliever comes in to face lesser hitters. I don't blame Girardi as this is baseball's "groupthink" practice.
Anyway, the outcome of this game was a welcome surprise. If I was a gambler (and I am not), I would have lost money on this game as I was sure Sabathia was going to far outpitch Penny. >>
Agree 100% about the CC vs Penny part- enough that I feel I should do an open letter of apoligy!
As far as what your saying about MLB or a "groupthink" practice? Bottom line Girardi is to blame for keeping CC in there- if anything it says he has ZERO faith in his pen ( which I dont blame him ) He had a pretty high pitch count and was laboring, he should have spelled him regardless if it was Mo rivera or someone else.
I guess Francona put Ramirez in for the save since he was the most rested. Pap does look pretty PO'ed not being in there though. Oh well....too bad for Lester he was dealing again!
<< <i>I guess Francona put Ramirez in for the save since he was the most rested. Pap does look pretty PO'ed not being in there though. Oh well....too bad for Lester he was dealing again! >>
WTF!
Geez, if a starter can pitch 7 innings, a star closer can pitch 3 innings over the course of 3 days!! They coddle these closers too much.
At the end of this season I think people will be talking about how the 2009 Red Sox had the best bullpen of all time. I think the stats will show that collectively this one was the best.
<< <i>Agreed about Papelbon looking pissed that he wasn't in there in the 9th.
Bard looked pretty impressive last night. >>
Yes he was -- the Red Sox pitching factory produces another gem. What is also impressive is that one of thier castoffs (Aardsma) has become an effective closer for Seattle this year!
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>This series possibly a World Series preview? >>
You'll get a preview of the representative from the American League, yes. >>
Yea cause the Phillies beatup on a different AL team last season in the WS - it'll be fun this season beating up on a different team...ya know...variety being the spice of life and all that.
in the outfield and runs the bases better. Nixon was clutch and all heart, but I think both are comparable in ability.
Welcome Phillies fan(s) to our wonderful thread. You will be treated with dignity and respect throughout this lovely series
we have with your wonderful ballclub. We hope you enjoy your games with us, as we are a professional ballclub that respects
the game and it's fans. Good luck to you sir(s).
<< <i>I am not a fan of designating one person as a team's closer, but apparently all of MLB sees it another way. Reason I bring it up here is that the Yankees could have held their lead, or at least given themselves their best shot to do so, by following their best starting pitcher (Sabathia) with their best reliever (Rivera). It was obvious early in the 8th that CC was out of gas. Why not bring in Rivera to face the top of the Sox order, saw off a bat or two, and maybe get a double play? If he succeeds and has enough left for the 9th, great. If he is spent, then a lesser reliever comes in to face lesser hitters. I don't blame Girardi as this is baseball's "groupthink" practice.
>>
I agree -- I am surprised a manager like LaRussa has not tried pitching their best bullpen pitcher (i.e. their "closer") against the best part of the lineup when they are up in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning, instead of saving the "closer" for the 9th, even if the bottom of the order is up. I would think that, over the long haul, a team would win more games. Of course the closers would hate it, because they get thier big contracts from "saves" even if they are with a 3 run lead against the bottom of the order in the 9th inning.
<< <i>Yeah, I wasn't comparing Drew to Nixon when it comes to heart. I was only comparing numbers, plus Drew covers more ground
in the outfield and runs the bases better. Nixon was clutch and all heart, but I think both are comparable in ability.
Welcome Phillies fan(s) to our wonderful thread. You will be treated with dignity and respect throughout this lovely series
we have with your wonderful ballclub. We hope you enjoy your games with us, as we are a professional ballclub that respects
the game and it's fans. Good luck to you sir(s). >>
I've always respected the Red Sox as a team, and of course they've had some great players over their many years including one of the greatest of all time.
Similarly, both them and the Phillies seem to have shed their reputation as losers, and that's certainly a good thing, especially when the recent New York teams seem to be cementing a reputation as choke artists.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, I wasn't comparing Drew to Nixon when it comes to heart. I was only comparing numbers, plus Drew covers more ground
in the outfield and runs the bases better. Nixon was clutch and all heart, but I think both are comparable in ability.
Welcome Phillies fan(s) to our wonderful thread. You will be treated with dignity and respect throughout this lovely series
we have with your wonderful ballclub. We hope you enjoy your games with us, as we are a professional ballclub that respects
the game and it's fans. Good luck to you sir(s). >>
I've always respected the Red Sox as a team, and of course they've had some great players over their many years including one of the greatest of all time.
Similarly, both them and the Phillies seem to have shed their reputation as losers, and that's certainly a good thing, especially when the recent New York teams seem to be cementing a reputation as choke artists.
Here's to a great weekend series between the last 2 World Champs. Should be fun!!!
<< <i>I agree -- I am surprised a manager like LaRussa has not tried pitching their best bullpen pitcher (i.e. their "closer") against the best part of the lineup when they are up in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning, instead of saving the "closer" for the 9th, even if the bottom of the order is up. I would think that, over the long haul, a team would win more games. Of course the closers would hate it, because they get thier big contracts from "saves" even if they are with a 3 run lead against the bottom of the order in the 9th inning. >>
Isn't LaRusssa one of the guys most often credited with the architecture of the current thinking on pitching? It seems like he was the guy that really developed and popularized the idea of a 6 or 7 inning starter followed by 1 or 2 relievers and then a closer.
I think there definitely are times when it helps a team to bring in their best reliever early even if that happens to be their closer, but I think that there are so many other factors that prevent that from happening. Factors such as pitch counts (even for relievers) and, I think, managers wanting to avoid being second-guessed in the media.
My humble opinion is that the Red Sox have figured out the best way to handle this. They don't often need to bring Papelbon in early because the Red Sox have stacked their bullpen with 4 or 5 guys that could be a closer for another team. A lot of people will complain that the game has changed (and rightly so). Starting pitchers don't expect to finish the games they start anymore. What we have now is a game where the entire bullpen is more important than it has ever been before. Credit should be given to the Red Sox for accepting this and working to achieve a top tier pen. The Yankees, on the other hand, still have some work to do in that area.
What a NICE suprise this morning!!!!!!!!
How Sweep it is!!!
<< <i>I am not a fan of designating one person as a team's closer, but apparently all of MLB sees it another way. Reason I bring it up here is that the Yankees could have held their lead, or at least given themselves their best shot to do so, by following their best starting pitcher (Sabathia) with their best reliever (Rivera). It was obvious early in the 8th that CC was out of gas. Why not bring in Rivera to face the top of the Sox order, saw off a bat or two, and maybe get a double play? If he succeeds and has enough left for the 9th, great. If he is spent, then a lesser reliever comes in to face lesser hitters. I don't blame Girardi as this is baseball's "groupthink" practice.
Anyway, the outcome of this game was a welcome surprise. If I was a gambler (and I am not), I would have lost money on this game as I was sure Sabathia was going to far outpitch Penny. >>
Agree 100% about the CC vs Penny part- enough that I feel I should do an open letter of apoligy!
As far as what your saying about MLB or a "groupthink" practice? Bottom line Girardi is to blame for keeping CC in there- if anything it says he has ZERO faith in his pen ( which I dont blame him ) He had a pretty high pitch count and was laboring, he should have spelled him regardless if it was Mo rivera or someone else.
Glad things worked out the way they did though
<< <i>On to the Sillies!
Be afraid, be very afraid.
<< <i>I guess Francona put Ramirez in for the save since he was the most rested. Pap does look pretty PO'ed not being in there though. Oh well....too bad for Lester he was dealing again! >>
WTF!
Geez, if a starter can pitch 7 innings, a star closer can pitch 3 innings over the course of 3 days!! They coddle these closers too much.
What a horrible error -- a 9 year old kid can make that catch
<< <i>Bard made it interesting but finally ended it!
Ibanez hit by a 99 mph heater -- that will leave a welt!
At the end of this season I think people will be talking about how the 2009 Red Sox had the best bullpen of all time.
I think the stats will show that collectively this one was the best.
Bard looked pretty impressive last night.
<< <i>Agreed about Papelbon looking pissed that he wasn't in there in the 9th.
Bard looked pretty impressive last night. >>
Yes he was -- the Red Sox pitching factory produces another gem. What is also impressive is that one of thier castoffs (Aardsma) has become an effective closer for Seattle this year!
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Well, any special advice you wanna give out for tonight's game???
<< <i>So Stevek
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Well, any special advice you wanna give out for tonight's game??? >>
yes, be afraider.
Kevin
How's the game so far? Does 5-0 do anything for you?
<< <i>doppler radar looks promising for restart >>
Good! Commence with the beatings.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>So Steve...
How's the game so far? Does 5-0 do anything for you? >>
5 - 4 looks better
<< <i>
<< <i>So Steve...
How's the game so far? Does 5-0 do anything for you? >>
5 - 4 looks better >>
Not as good as 8-4 LOL
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject