I sent in the Friedman in the SCG holder to be graded. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Reese >>
Reese,
I hope that it gets authenticated. I still have a 1955 Topps AA Friedman that PSA rejected last year. As a matter of fact, I have a whole slew of signed rc that PSA has rejected (Friedman, Millner, Steve Owen, Finks) that PSA has rejected.....that I know are good.
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I have two new additions to show off - a signed 1962 Topps Johnny Unitas and a 1964 Topps Houston Oilers team card signed by Sam Baugh and, most importantly, Bud Adams. For the last 5 or 6 years, I had been trying to get several team cards signed by Bud Adams - however, he apparently didn't respond to fan mail toward the end of his life (he died in Oct 2013). I purchased this cards from a long time collector who obtained his autograph through the mail back in the mid-80's. The card is also signed by Sammy Baugh who coached for the Oilers back in the early 60's.
I think that Bud Adams is a good candidate for the HOF...so I'm glad to have this cards in my collection for that eventuality.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Why/How were these registry selections made? - Cal Hubbard 1974 Fleer vs 1955 Bowman. I guess the fleer's about his football career while the bowman's about his umpiring career but it's still a much earlier trading card from a major company. - Wellington Mara 1997 Topps vs 1991 Proset. Even though it also features Robert Tisch as well, it features Mara pretty prominently and is a much earlier card.
For both cases I prefer the card not used in the registry. What's everyone else think?
<< <i>Why/How were these registry selections made? - Cal Hubbard 1974 Fleer vs 1955 Bowman. I guess the fleer's about his football career while the bowman's about his umpiring career but it's still a much earlier trading card from a major company. - Wellington Mara 1997 Topps vs 1991 Proset. Even though it also features Robert Tisch as well, it features Mara pretty prominently and is a much earlier card.
For both cases I prefer the card not used in the registry. What's everyone else think? >>
Reese and I came up w/ the cards for the set based on (1) the cards used in the non-autographed HOF/Future Hall of fame registry sets and (2) the first non-regional set made for HOFers without regular rookie cards.
You bring up good points about Mara and Hubbard...and quite frankly, many of the cards that we chose were judgement calls. We did consult w/ other people on what cards would be best to use - and in the end decided to use the cards included in the set.
I don't think that we should be using Cal Hubbard's baseball card in the football registry. If you like the baseball card, then by all means add it to your collection. I've done the same thing w/ my collection. For instance, I consider Bud Grants 1954 Blue Ribbon Tea card as his true "rookie card". However, it was impossible for us to justify using it as his "rookie card" for the registry set because it is a CFL card, was from a Regional set issued in Canada, and is nearly impossible to find. I have a signed copy in my collection even though it's not his rookie card for the set.
As for Mara, we could vote on changing the card to his 1991 Pro Set card. I personally feel that the 1997 Topps is appropriate...but would be willing to put it up for a vote.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I think a set of rules should dictate the selection rather than a voting panel. The panel can vote on the rules, but a panel for selection on individual cards opens up the process to bias - especially if cards or better/worse cards are included in their collection.
So far it seems like the rules are: 1) Cards must be from a major manufacturer (Topps, Fleer, Upper Deck, Panini, Bowman, Score, ProSet) 2) Cards must feature only player listed 3) Cards must feature player in the capacity he was elected 4) Cards must have print run of at least ???? 5) Of all cards that fit rules 1-4, the earliest year shall be used 6) Of all cards that fit rules 1-5, the most expensive shall be used 7) In the event of a tie, the shiniest card shall be used
My opinion on the current rules is: #1 is good. Attempting to pick cards that are obtainable makes more people want to participate. The regional CFL card would be a bad choice. Where does this leave the 1977 touchdown club, 1990 action packed, 1995 enor. Is the rule really any officially licensed card? Would it make more sense for bud grant to use the 2005 upper deck card? Why is enor better than the cfl card? If availability is the rule shouldn't we use a new more available card for the Chicle's and Sport Kings?
#2 is good. After more thought I agree the Mara card featuring only him is probably the better choice. However, I might add a clause that if this is the only choice during their career it should be used.
#3 Maybe I listed this rule wrong, but I think this one could use some clarification. Some tougher examples to consider: Marty Schottenheimer: 1971 Topps card as a player vs 1989 Card as a head coach Cal Hubbard: 1955 Card as a baseball player vs 1974 card as a football player Steve Young (and others): 1984 USFL. Seems like the HOF doesn't take into account these other league's play. Making these sort of unrelated to why they were elected to the hall of fame. Almost more like XRC cards. It seems like the options are (in order of my preference) a) Earliest major trading card (1971 Schottenheimer, 1955 Hubbard, 1984 Young) b) Earliest card for induction purposes (1989 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1986 Young) c) Earliest card in some way related to football (1971 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1984 Young)
#4 If we're only going to choose one card then I agree they shouldn't be too limited (again more participation). What's the limiting number here? 1000? 2000? Even that seems kinda small. With 1000 cards, and probably 90%+ staying unsigned you limit the pool of those that can realistically participate to 100? Maybe it would make sense to pick the card with the biggest print run. Ex - topps base.
#5 sure, a rookie
#6 This seems to be the rule, but why? Shorter print run is more expensive/exclusive. Do we want expensive exclusive collections? Like in #4 I would pick the cheapest/most accessible. In Turn it might make your older cards more valuable. More people trying to complete set because of ease in early years makes more demand for older cards?
#7 I think this comes into play more in the future. But the Cortez Kennedy seems like an odd choice? Shiniest seems like the only difference in the action packed card vs his other ones? Aren't these shiny cards tougher to get good autographs on? What makes sense for the non autographed registry might not make sense for the autographed one.
Anyhow, it seems like a fun registry set. I'm pretty low down the list with only 25% complete working my way from oldest to newest. As I get into the newer cards I'm trying to figure out if it's a set I want to stick with or just focus on the pick any card you like set. So I'm trying to figure out the direction of future card selection to see if it's something I could possibly afford.
The Baseball HOF Signed Rookie Registry has 3 different players who have 2 cards possible for the registry set, they are Satchell Paige, George Kell, and Larry Doby. For each of these players you can use either their 1948 Leaf or 1949 Bowman cards for the registry. Maybe it could be designated that for Steve Young & Reggie White you could use either their 1984 Topps USFL or 1986 Topps cards. Thoughts?
I would think there are many cards that would be an either/or type situation. Here's an incomplete list where I think an either/or is appropriate. These are mostly the older cards as I haven't done as much research into the newer ones.
1948 Bulldog Turner (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Pete Pihos (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Sid Luckman (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 George McAfee (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Steve Van Buren (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Bob Waterfield (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Charley Trippi (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Sammy Baugh (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Bill Dudley (Leaf/Bowman) 1961 Jim Otto (Topps/Fleer) 1961 Don Maynard (Topps/Fleer)
The problem is starting around 1989 there starts to be 3-4 cards/player. Then in the late 90's to 2000's that number starts to explode even further. I think in the past Greg and others have commented that PSA didn't want to allow multiple options for the registry. To me it seems odd that wouldn't be allowed. I know it is allowed for both the Baseball and Hockey sets; though for baseball it looks like they're going to restrict newer issues to 1 card? Ex 1987 Fleer Larkin and 1988 Score Alomar. If we're going to restrict a selection of 10 possibilities to a single card, it seems like we need rules to do that.
As for the 1984 usfl cards in particular, my preference would be to allow either the 1984 (XRCs) or the regular 1986 (RCs) to complete the set. If I could only pick one, I think maybe I'd pick the 1986. You could even start a super master collector version of the registry set where super collectors could try to get *all* issues allowed.
I would support all of the cards you listed as well as adding Steve Young, Reggie White, and Jim Kelly 1984 or 1986 Topps cards. I agree that it becomes rather tricky with the more recent inductees who had multiple cards from their first year.
<< <i>I would think there are many cards that would be an either/or type situation. Here's an incomplete list where I think an either/or is appropriate. These are mostly the older cards as I haven't done as much research into the newer ones.
1948 Bulldog Turner (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Pete Pihos (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Sid Luckman (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 George McAfee (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Steve Van Buren (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Bob Waterfield (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Charley Trippi (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Sammy Baugh (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Bill Dudley (Leaf/Bowman) 1961 Jim Otto (Topps/Fleer) 1961 Don Maynard (Topps/Fleer)
The problem is starting around 1989 there starts to be 3-4 cards/player. Then in the late 90's to 2000's that number starts to explode even further. I think in the past Greg and others have commented that PSA didn't want to allow multiple options for the registry. To me it seems odd that wouldn't be allowed. I know it is allowed for both the Baseball and Hockey sets; though for baseball it looks like they're going to restrict newer issues to 1 card? Ex 1987 Fleer Larkin and 1988 Score Alomar. If we're going to restrict a selection of 10 possibilities to a single card, it seems like we need rules to do that.
As for the 1984 usfl cards in particular, my preference would be to allow either the 1984 (XRCs) or the regular 1986 (RCs) to complete the set. If I could only pick one, I think maybe I'd pick the 1986. You could even start a super master collector version of the registry set where super collectors could try to get *all* issues allowed. >>
Alex,
As always, I love your passion for this set. I have two points that I'd like to make.
First, I'm personally on the fence about whether to allow two+ cards for certain slots. Doing so would actually help me because I have a Pihos signed 48 Leaf and a Van Buren signed 48 Bowman. I feel that adding this flexibility would somewhat diminish the exclusivity of the set. The set was always intended to mimic the NFL HOF unsigned set - and was meant to include the best card of each player. As you know, especially with the 48 Bowman/Leaf cards, the Bowman short prints are generally more valuable than the Leaf card (assuming the same player) and the 1948 Leaf high numbers are more valuable than the 1948 Bowman card. In both cases (i.e. Bowman short prints and Leaf high numbers), the raw cards are very difficult to find and expensive when you do. Take Pete Pihos for example. His best rookie card is the Bowman card because it is a short print. Over the past 5 years, I've seen exactly 1 signed Pete Pihos Bowman rc even though Pete Pihos signed cards, in general, are plentiful to find. So, I think that what you're gaining in flexibility, you're losing in exclusivity.
Second, I discussed this issue w/ PSA several years ago and they adamantly opposed allowed multiple cards for a single slot. I know they allow this flexibility for some other sets - but I think they try to discourage this as much as possible because of IT complexity (which is how I believe it was described to me).
That's my 2 cents for what its worth.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Did anyone see the signed 1935 Chicle reprint Bronko Nagurski? For a split second when I first saw the auction I thought it was an original 1935 Chicle and almost lost my mind....
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>I think a set of rules should dictate the selection rather than a voting panel. The panel can vote on the rules, but a panel for selection on individual cards opens up the process to bias - especially if cards or better/worse cards are included in their collection.
So far it seems like the rules are: 1) Cards must be from a major manufacturer (Topps, Fleer, Upper Deck, Panini, Bowman, Score, ProSet) 2) Cards must feature only player listed 3) Cards must feature player in the capacity he was elected 4) Cards must have print run of at least ???? 5) Of all cards that fit rules 1-4, the earliest year shall be used 6) Of all cards that fit rules 1-5, the most expensive shall be used 7) In the event of a tie, the shiniest card shall be used
My opinion on the current rules is: #1 is good. Attempting to pick cards that are obtainable makes more people want to participate. The regional CFL card would be a bad choice. Where does this leave the 1977 touchdown club, 1990 action packed, 1995 enor. Is the rule really any officially licensed card? Would it make more sense for bud grant to use the 2005 upper deck card? Why is enor better than the cfl card? If availability is the rule shouldn't we use a new more available card for the Chicle's and Sport Kings?
#2 is good. After more thought I agree the Mara card featuring only him is probably the better choice. However, I might add a clause that if this is the only choice during their career it should be used.
#3 Maybe I listed this rule wrong, but I think this one could use some clarification. Some tougher examples to consider: Marty Schottenheimer: 1971 Topps card as a player vs 1989 Card as a head coach Cal Hubbard: 1955 Card as a baseball player vs 1974 card as a football player Steve Young (and others): 1984 USFL. Seems like the HOF doesn't take into account these other league's play. Making these sort of unrelated to why they were elected to the hall of fame. Almost more like XRC cards. It seems like the options are (in order of my preference) a) Earliest major trading card (1971 Schottenheimer, 1955 Hubbard, 1984 Young) b) Earliest card for induction purposes (1989 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1986 Young) c) Earliest card in some way related to football (1971 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1984 Young)
#4 If we're only going to choose one card then I agree they shouldn't be too limited (again more participation). What's the limiting number here? 1000? 2000? Even that seems kinda small. With 1000 cards, and probably 90%+ staying unsigned you limit the pool of those that can realistically participate to 100? Maybe it would make sense to pick the card with the biggest print run. Ex - topps base.
#5 sure, a rookie
#6 This seems to be the rule, but why? Shorter print run is more expensive/exclusive. Do we want expensive exclusive collections? Like in #4 I would pick the cheapest/most accessible. In Turn it might make your older cards more valuable. More people trying to complete set because of ease in early years makes more demand for older cards?
#7 I think this comes into play more in the future. But the Cortez Kennedy seems like an odd choice? Shiniest seems like the only difference in the action packed card vs his other ones? Aren't these shiny cards tougher to get good autographs on? What makes sense for the non autographed registry might not make sense for the autographed one.
Anyhow, it seems like a fun registry set. I'm pretty low down the list with only 25% complete working my way from oldest to newest. As I get into the newer cards I'm trying to figure out if it's a set I want to stick with or just focus on the pick any card you like set. So I'm trying to figure out the direction of future card selection to see if it's something I could possibly afford. >>
Alex -
I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner. I started a response 8 weeks ago and am only finishing it now. I have ADP (auditory processing disorder) and have an especially difficult time w/ long e-mails/responses. I wasn't trying to ignore your great questions...
Anyways....As I said before, our starting point was the HOF rc and future HOF rookie sets. Whatever card was chosen for those sets was automatically the rc for our sets. The criteria for inclusion in the HOF rc and future HOF rc sets are that the card has to be the earliest card issued, with the highest value from a major manufacturer and with a print run of 999 or more. For 1989 and before the choice was generally simple. One point of contention 5+ years ago (w/ the HOF rc set) here was whether to use the USFL or Topps rc for Steve Young, Reggie White and Jim Kelly. Since, the majority chose the USFL cards (which I personally agree with), these cards are included in both the regular and signed HOF rc sets. Since the HOF rc is only players, it excludes coaches and contributors. It also excludes cards such as the 1974/1975 Fleer and 1977 Touchdown that weren't considered true rookie cards. Since Reese and I wanted to get as inclusive as possible, we decided to include the 1974/1975 Fleer and 1977 Touchdown sets. Even though they weren't nationally distributed, they are easy enough to find and are better than nothing (in my opinion). We also decided to include the coaches and contributors who appeared on major issues such as the 1974/1975 Fleer, ENOR sets which is why, for example, we chose the ENOR Bud Grant instead of the 2005 UD Legends.
Also, my response to your comments below are:
1) I agree that #1 is good. I fought to include the 1977 Touchdown, otherwise we couldn't include Tuffy Leemans since it was the only card made of him before he died. I believe the other three HOFers that we're using the 1977 Touchdown card had subsequent ENOR or Swell cards issued before they died (Willis, Musso and Flaherty). I don't think they diminish anything from the set and are plentiful enough to find.
I don't understand your point about the 1995 ENOR set...(I'm not being sarcastic). It was the first officially licensed card made of Bud Grant. We didn't include his 1954 CFL card because (1) it is from a different league and (2) it's from a regional set that would be nearly impossible for most collectors to find. I would personally prefer the 1954 CFL card (since I probably have one of the few signed copies that exist), but its inclusion wouldn't be fair to other set collectors.
I hate the inclusion of the 1990 Action Packed cards....repeat hate. That was PSA's doing, not mine. A couple of years ago, PSA determined that the most expensive rc of Junior Seau and Cortez Kennedy was the 1990 Action Packed card....so they changed the set composition of the HOF rc and signed HOF rc set (Seau and Kennedy were previously the 1990 Score Supplemental). They tried to do the same thing w/ the Lou Creekmur card (i.e. change from 1951 Bowman to 1950 Topps felt back)...but I threw such a fit that they backed off. After all, the Topps Felt back cards would be nearly impossible to sign. I would be all for getting rid of the Action Packed cards - because the card fronts are not conducive to autographing. If you guys support me, I would bring the issue up w/ PSA.
Finally, I personally think that we should keep the Sport Kings and Chicles. I know for a fact, that two 1933 Sport Kings exist as does a 1935 Chicle Dutch Clark and Ken Strong. I would venture to guess the other cards exist, but in very limited quantities. As an alternative, have you thought about creating a post war set? That way, we could add cards from 1948 onwards and substitute the 1974/1975 Fleer or 1977 Touchdown in lieu of the 33 SK and 35 Chicles? That way, only the true masochists can attempt the pre-war set (including myself).
2) I agree w/ your added clause
3) I would go with option C with the clarification of replacing “football” with “NFL”.
4) Once again, we followed the HOF RC set choice of rc – which is the most expensive non-autographed card with a print run of ~ 1,000 or more. I don’t that that rule applies much anymore because the days of the limited numbered, no autographed rc are gone (peaked in late 90’s, e.g. Manning, Brady rc). I really struggle w/ what the right answer is here. I love the idea of the 1998 Manning and 2000 SP Brady in the set. Those are clearly 2 of the top cards produced in the late 90’s/early 00’s. I can’t imagine leaving those out of the set. Then again, maybe the easiest choice would be to require the basic Topps card. However, how do we deal with players who didn’t have a regular Topps card issued until after their rookie year (e.g. Antonio Gates)?
5) Agree
6) Addressed in #4 above
7) As you point out, the shiniest card may look nice but typically don’t have surfaces that autographs adhere to. Maybe this is the point where the HOF rc and signed HOF rc sets diverge. We need to include cards with surfaces that autographs will adhere to.
If we can agree to a set of rules, then I have no problem approaching PSA w/ any proposed changes to the set (whether retroactive or prospective). Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>The Baseball HOF Signed Rookie Registry has 3 different players who have 2 cards possible for the registry set, they are Satchell Paige, George Kell, and Larry Doby. For each of these players you can use either their 1948 Leaf or 1949 Bowman cards for the registry. Maybe it could be designated that for Steve Young & Reggie White you could use either their 1984 Topps USFL or 1986 Topps cards. Thoughts? >>
I'll address your question in my response to Alex...thx.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>I would think there are many cards that would be an either/or type situation. Here's an incomplete list where I think an either/or is appropriate. These are mostly the older cards as I haven't done as much research into the newer ones.
1948 Bulldog Turner (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Pete Pihos (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Sid Luckman (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 George McAfee (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Steve Van Buren (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Bob Waterfield (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Charley Trippi (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Sammy Baugh (Leaf/Bowman) 1948 Bill Dudley (Leaf/Bowman) 1961 Jim Otto (Topps/Fleer) 1961 Don Maynard (Topps/Fleer)
The problem is starting around 1989 there starts to be 3-4 cards/player. Then in the late 90's to 2000's that number starts to explode even further. I think in the past Greg and others have commented that PSA didn't want to allow multiple options for the registry. To me it seems odd that wouldn't be allowed. I know it is allowed for both the Baseball and Hockey sets; though for baseball it looks like they're going to restrict newer issues to 1 card? Ex 1987 Fleer Larkin and 1988 Score Alomar. If we're going to restrict a selection of 10 possibilities to a single card, it seems like we need rules to do that.
As for the 1984 usfl cards in particular, my preference would be to allow either the 1984 (XRCs) or the regular 1986 (RCs) to complete the set. If I could only pick one, I think maybe I'd pick the 1986. You could even start a super master collector version of the registry set where super collectors could try to get *all* issues allowed. >>
Alex,
Yes - PSA pushed back on the idea of adding multiple choices for a single slot. I think that it's difficult from a back office perspective (IT programming??) and they prefer a single card choice per slot. Personally, I prefer a single card per slot but would go w/ the majority on this. Being able to add multiple cards would help me because I have the "wrong" signed rc of Steve Van Buren (48 Bowman) and Pete Pihos (48 Leaf). Should we put this up to a vote for current set owners?
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I realize that my set does not rank very highly on the registry, and so my opinion matters little here, but I think that the 1990 Action Packed cards should stay. Specifically, I think that straying from the unsigned HOF RC set just for aesthetic reasons is a slippery slope. Should the '61 Fleer Maynard be changed to the '61 Topps because the Fleer has a dark photo? Should Ray Lewis' card-of-choice be the Stadium Club because the Bowman's Best is too chromey? True, it's difficult to get a nice signature on the front of an Action Packed card, but it's far from impossible. I have a nicely signed '90 AP Seau, and I think it's stunning -- one of the most aesthetically pleasing cards in my collection. I have also seen some really nice looking signed '90 AP Cortez Kennedy's -- they are not easy to find, but they are out there. Anyone seriously chasing this set knows that it requires some impossibly rare and expensive cards already, so I don't see why the three Action Packed cards need to be removed in favor of "easier" ones.
Someone should probably address 1990 before Seau gets in next year. In the Heisman set, the Topps card counts for Andre Ware. In the HOF set, Score Supplemental counts for Emmitt. And for some reason, Action Packed counts for Seau. This is pretty ridiculous.
Edited to say that I didn't see previous post before posting...but I still think some sort of uniformity per year is the right way to go.
My goal here was to either vote on a new set of rules, or clearly understand the existing set. What's been stated by Greg and others makes pretty good sense, so I think I am at least now understanding what the current rules set is. Thanks for all the dialogue/explanation. If more rules/changes need voting, I'd be glad to participate.
The thing I like least about the current rules set is the highly subjective 'most expensive' card. Two major issues with this: 1) This becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. I think PSA's somewhat arbitrary decision on the action packed cards are making those the most expensive. Maybe this is just how the game works. 2) Current stars not in the future HOF registry set are tough to collect. Let's say I had an opportunity to get a Ndamukong Suh autograph. I have no idea which rookie card I would get it on. My only choice is to wait until players achieve that superstar status and charge ridiculous autograph fee's. It would be at least nice if I could say by year how a choice would be made. Is there a list like this somewhere? What is it for 2005-2014? When would the decision be made for 2015? 1997 - SP Authentic, Pacific 1998 - SP Authentic, Leaf 1999 - SP Authentic, Pacific 2000 - SP Authentic 2001 - Chrome, Pacific 2002 - Chrome, Upper Deck
I think in the end my confusion was from the name of the registry set. Maybe this set would be more aptly named: Pro Football Hall of Fame Most Expensive Rookie Players/Coaches/Admin Autographs
Perhaps there could be room for another set: Pro Football Hall of Fame Any Rookie Players/Coaches/Admin Autographs
Though I think people with the desire to collect Hall of Fame rookies are by nature likely to collect the most expensive ones. Unfortunately my budget probably precludes that, or dooms me to at best 50% completion. I may try to request a set that allows any rookie and participate in both. Ultimately focusing on the one with the most participants.
Thanks again for all the feedback.
Time to get back to the cards! Here's my pickups from the last 6 months or so, got a bunch done at a recent show and some pickups from other collectors. Hopefully I got the right ones:
First off is a Derrick Brooks that I bought from Mill Creek. It's the nicest Derrick Brooks autograph that I've seen. He normally signs with only his initials....
Next up is a 1948 Bowman Charley Conerly that I purchased off E-Bay. It's the only signed Charley Conerly rc (either Leaf or Bowman) that I've seen.
Next is a signed Hines Ward rc that I was finally able to wrangle from a fellow board member.
Finally, I purchased a signed Curly Culp rc. It was an upgrade to the card in my set. The bottom card is for sale $50 dlvd if anyone is interested.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Great news - the Finks, Millner and Friedman were FINALLY authenticated after several failed attempts. I knew they were good...I was waiting for PSA to finally agree with me
The Unitas is for sale if anyone is interested. It's a nice vintage ballpoint signature.
<< <i>Great news - the Finks, Millner and Friedman were FINALLY authenticated after several failed attempts. I knew they were good...I was waiting for PSA to finally agree with me
The Unitas is for sale if anyone is interested. It's a nice vintage ballpoint signature.
<< <i>I realize that my set does not rank very highly on the registry, and so my opinion matters little here, but I think that the 1990 Action Packed cards should stay. Specifically, I think that straying from the unsigned HOF RC set just for aesthetic reasons is a slippery slope. Should the '61 Fleer Maynard be changed to the '61 Topps because the Fleer has a dark photo? Should Ray Lewis' card-of-choice be the Stadium Club because the Bowman's Best is too chromey? True, it's difficult to get a nice signature on the front of an Action Packed card, but it's far from impossible. I have a nicely signed '90 AP Seau, and I think it's stunning -- one of the most aesthetically pleasing cards in my collection. I have also seen some really nice looking signed '90 AP Cortez Kennedy's -- they are not easy to find, but they are out there. Anyone seriously chasing this set knows that it requires some impossibly rare and expensive cards already, so I don't see why the three Action Packed cards need to be removed in favor of "easier" ones.
>>
I value your opinion as much as anyone else's.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
The highest price is based on the beckett guide...so for some reason, the 1990 Action Packed Junior Agree / Cortez Kennedy are worth more than any other rookie card. Personally, I like the Score Supplemental cards - since that was the "best" set back in 1990 - mostly because of Emmitt Smith's rc. In addition, what card do we choose for Shannon Sharpe? His 1990 Action Packed card is his only rookie card. He has 3 cards issued in 1991; Bowman, Topps and Pacific. I would almost prefer any of his 1991 cards over his Action Packed cards.
Maybe we stick with the cards chosen up through 2000 (except possibly for the 1990 Action Packed cards) and focus our attention on 2001+ when the certified autographed craze took off. From 2001 onwards, maybe we could set an order of preference – such as (1) SP Authentic (non-autographed – e.g. 2003 SP Authentic Jason Witten), (2) Regular Topps and (3) only/best non-autographed rookie card (e.g. 2003 Leaf R&S Antonio Gates). I would personally prefer to stay away from the Chrome cards. Autographs smear too easily on the glossy surface.
What are your thoughts? I could put together a list for every future HOFer and everyone can chime in as to which card should be chosen for the set.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
For Shannon Sharpe I think you have to go with the action packed card. No question, it's his only rookie right?
As for Seau/Kennedy, it seems like there's a lot of possibilities. I guess there's no estimated print runs from 1990 football? I looked into 'Action Packed' a little more and they're not as obscure as I originally thought. Below probably summarizes my thoughts on the possibilities:
Action Packed - Semi-Major Brand (7 years of sets), licensed, pack issued, low print run, premium product, shiny Fleer Update - Major brand, issued as a set, low print run Proset - Major Brand, pack issued, high print run Score - Major Brand, pack issued, high print run Score Supplemental - Major brand, issued as a set, low print run Stars N Stripes - Minor brand, pack issued, low print run, licensed? Topps - Major Brand, pack issued, high print run Topps Traded - Major brand, issued as a set, low print run
After looking at this, I think my vote is actually probably for the action packed cards. My considerations in order: - Licensed cards are a must - I prefer pack issued over only complete set issued - I prefer lower print run over high print run - I prefer non-shiny - I prefer premium product over base printing techniques
If any of the update/supplemental/traded cards were pack issued I might change my vote, but I believe they were only issued as complete sets right?
I think for 2000+ it would be nice to order the sets. I think generally for most years it's the same, but it could possibly change from year to year - ex upper deck lost it's license at some point I think. I'd say throw something out there for the years and we can vote on it.
Chrome cards do not smear if done correctly. Believe me, you can have fails just as big on this generation's glossy regular Topps cards. It would absolutely be a mistake to do limited print run SP Authentic cards or run of the mill regular Topps. Topps Chorme from 2001-2014 are 100% the base cards you want to have.
<< <i>I think the Luckman looks good. I had a competitive snipe setup, I guess you got the seller to end it early? >>
Alex,
Nice Joe Thomas!! I agree w/ you...I think that it's good. Plus, the card is in great shape and has great color. Yes, the seller and I agreed to a price and he ended the auction. Did you see the 1948 Bowman Luckman that he has for sale? It's VERY nice....signed in silver sharpie.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Chrome cards do not smear if done correctly. Believe me, you can have fails just as big on this generation's glossy regular Topps cards. It would absolutely be a mistake to do limited print run SP Authentic cards or run of the mill regular Topps. Topps Chorme from 2001-2014 are 100% the base cards you want to have.
>>
Mike,
Using the Topps Chrome cards from 2001 to 2014 isn't a bad idea. I do have a couple of Topps Chrome cards that look good - but I'm leery of the glossy surface. However, as you point out, if the cards are properly prepared the autograph will generally adhere to the card surface. I still have an affinity for the SP Authentic non-autographed rookie cards....so I'm not ready to give up on those yet.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
If anyone is interested, I'm asking $1,000 or best offer. The card has a small paper wrinkle in the right hand corner on the front of the card (it's not visible from the back) and the spots on the back appear to be ink/marker bleed. Please let me know if you're interested...thanks.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Chrome cards do not smear if done correctly. Believe me, you can have fails just as big on this generation's glossy regular Topps cards. It would absolutely be a mistake to do limited print run SP Authentic cards or run of the mill regular Topps. Topps Chorme from 2001-2014 are 100% the base cards you Mike,
Using the Topps Chrome cards from 2001 to 2014 isn't a bad idea. I do have a couple of Topps Chrome cards that look good - but I'm leery of the glossy surface. However, as you point out, if the cards are properly prepared the autograph will generally adhere to the card surface. I still have an affinity for the SP Authentic non-autographed rookie cards....so I'm not ready to give up on those yet.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
I can certainly see that opinion. To be honest though, the SP Authentic cards have a pretty good smear rate if not properly prepared (on the glossy parts) too. My issue with them is that they're typically serial numbered. I always prefer non-serial numbered if a good alternative non-serial one is available.
But to be honest, I have my cards split half between SP Authentic and Topps Chrome largely because this decision hadn't been made. Yes, I prefer the Topps Chrome but in all honestly, I just want a decision to be made so I don't waste time on cards that will not be eligible.
Below is the list that I keep of all the future Hall of Famers and their corresponding rookie cards. I haven't updated the list in over a year - so please let me know if there are any other players that should be added.
I'm still not 100% convinced that we should keep the Action Packed card for Seau and Kennedy. I think that we should use the 1990 Score Supplemental but will go with the consensus.
Rgs,
Greg M.
1948 LEAF AL “WHITEY” WISTERT 28 1948 LEAF CHARLIE CONERLY 53 1950 BOWMAN MAC SPEEDIE 8 1955 BOWMAN BILLY WILSON 81 1955 BOWMAN DICK STANFEL 36 1959 TOPPS ALEX KARRAS 103 1959 TOPPS DEL SHOFNER 15 1959 TOPPS GENE LIPSCOMB 36 1959 TOPPS JERRY KRAMER 116 1961 FLEER JOHN BRODIE 59 1961 FLEER JOHNNY ROBINSON 202 1961 FLEER MAXIE BAUGHAN 56 1963 TOPPS JIM MARSHALL 107 1964 PHILADELPHIA MICK TINGELHOFF 110 1964 TOPPS ED BUDDE 93 1964 TOPPS JIM TYRER 108 1964 TOPPS JOHN HADL 159 1965 PHILADELPHIA PAT FISCHER 160 1966 PHILADELPHIA CHUCK HOWLEY 59 1966 TOPPS OTIS TAYLOR 75 1967 PHILADELPHIA LEE ROY JORDAN 54 1967 PHILADELPHIA TOMMY NOBIS 7 1968 TOPPS ANDY RUSSELL 163 1969 TOPPS DICK ANDERSON 59 1970 TOPPS RICH JACKSON 95 1971 TOPPS LEMAR PARRISH 233 1972 TOPPS L.C. GREENWOOD 101 1973 TOPPS BOB KUECHENBERG 367 1973 TOPPS KEN STABLER 487 1975 TOPPS CLIFF BRANCH 524 1975 TOPPS CLIFF HARRIS 490 1975 TOPPS DREW PEARSON 65 1976 TOPPS RANDY GRADISHAR 257 1976 TOPPS ROBERT BRAZILE 424 1980 TOPPS LESTER HAYES 195 1983 TOPPS GARY ANDERSON 356 1984 TOPPS MORTEN ANDERSEN 300 1984 TOPPS ROGER CRAIG 353 1987 TOPPS CHARLES HALEY 125 1988 TOPPS KEVIN GREENE 300 1989 SCORE STEVE ATW*TER 263 1989 SCORE TIM BROWN 86 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE JUNIOR SEAU 38 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE LEROY BUTLER 10 1991 STADIUM CLUB BRETT FAVRE 94 1992 COLLECTORS EDGE JIMMY SMITH 228 1993 SP JASON ELAM 75 1993 SP JEROME BETTIS 6 1993 SP JOHN LYNCH 259 1993 SP WILL SHIELDS 123 1994 BOWMAN ISAAC BRUCE 68 1994 BOWMAN KEVIN MAWAE 135 1995 FINEST RUBEN BROWN 212 1995 SP TERRELL DAVIS 130 1996 BOWMANS BEST RAY LEWIS 164 1996 FINEST BRIAN DAWKINS 344 1996 SP MARVIN HARRISON 18 1996 SP TERRELL OWENS 7 1996 SP ZACH THOMAS 91 1997 PACIFIC PHILADELPHIA ADAM VINATIERI 199 1997 SP AUTHENTIC JASON TAYLOR 116 1997 SP AUTHENTIC ORLANDO PACE 1 1997 SP AUTHENTIC TONY GONZALEZ 11 1998 LEAF ROOKIES & STARS HINES WARD 202 1998 SP AUTHENTIC CHARLES WOODSON 23 1998 SP AUTHENTIC PEYTON MANNING 14 1998 SP AUTHENTIC RANDY MOSS 18 1999 PACIFIC KURT WARNER 1999 SP AUTHENTIC CHAMP BAILEY 111 1999 SP AUTHENTIC EDGERRIN JAMES 94 1999 SP AUTHENTIC TORRY HOLT 96 2000 SP AUTHENTIC BRIAN URLACHER 122 2000 SP AUTHENTIC TOM BRADY 118 2001 PACIFIC CROWN ROYALE STEVE HUTCHINSON 185 2001 TOPPS CHROME DREW BREES ROOKIE REFRACTOR 229 2001 TOPPS CHROME LADANIAN TOMLINSON ROOKIE REFRACTOR 221 2001 TOPPS CHROME RICHARD SEYMOUR ROOKIE REFRACTOR 282 2002 TOPPS CHROME DWIGHT FREENEY 171 2002 TOPPS CHROME ED REED 208 2002 TOPPS CHROME JULIUS PEPPERS 214 2002 UPPER DECK XL ALAN FANECA 362 2003 LEAF R & S ANTONIO GATES 132 2003 SP AUTHENTIC JASON WITTEN 199 2003 SP AUTHENTIC TROY POLAMALU 120 2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS 214 2004 TOPPS CHROME BEN ROETHLISBERGER 166 2004 SP AUTHENTIC JARED ALLEN 101 2004 TOPPS CHROME ELI MANNING 205 2005 TOPPS CHROME DEMARCUS WARE 213 1991 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL BELICHICK 115 1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL COWHER 1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS MIKE HOLMGREN 1989 PRO SET JIMMY JOHNSON 98 1967 PHILADELPHIA DAN REEVES 58 1989 PRO SET ANNOUNCER STEVE SABOL 10 1989 PRO SET MIKE SHANNAHAN 194 1971 TOPPS MARTY SHOTTENHEIMER 3 1990 PRO SET PAUL TAGLIABUE CC2 1992 GREEN BAY PACKERS POLICE RON WOLF 1 1951 Topps Magic GEORGE YOUNG 48
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
<< <i>Yes, I saw the bowman as well but you guys have me convinced that's no good and I have to try to collect only the leaf. So I guess I'll wait for that.
Ended up using my spending money for the month on this thing. So I'm tapped out until September anyhow. >>
Alex,
Nice! Are you a tennis player or is that for a family member?
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Greg, I think your Future List is pretty accurate. I would add the 2001 Topps Chrome Reggie Wayne card, 2005 Topps Chrome Aaron Rodgers, 2007 Topps Chrome Adrian Peterson, 2007 Topps Chrome Joe Thomas and 2007 Topps Chrome Darelle Revis.
<< <i>Greg, I think your Future List is pretty accurate. I would add the 2001 Topps Chrome Reggie Wayne card, 2005 Topps Chrome Aaron Rodgers, 2007 Topps Chrome Adrian Peterson, 2007 Topps Chrome Joe Thomas and 2007 Topps Chrome Darelle Revis. >>
Will do - thanks for the input. Plus, I think that we can take Eli Manning off the list. I think that he was added right after winning his second Super Bowl.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
1948 LEAF AL “WHITEY” WISTERT 28 1948 LEAF CHARLIE CONERLY 53 1950 BOWMAN MAC SPEEDIE 8 1955 BOWMAN BILLY WILSON 81 1955 BOWMAN DICK STANFEL 36 1959 TOPPS ALEX KARRAS 103 1959 TOPPS DEL SHOFNER 15 1959 TOPPS GENE LIPSCOMB 36 1959 TOPPS JERRY KRAMER 116 1961 FLEER JOHN BRODIE 59 1961 FLEER JOHNNY ROBINSON 202 1961 FLEER MAXIE BAUGHAN 56 1963 TOPPS JIM MARSHALL 107 1964 PHILADELPHIA MICK TINGELHOFF 110 1964 TOPPS ED BUDDE 93 1964 TOPPS JIM TYRER 108 1964 TOPPS JOHN HADL 159 1965 PHILADELPHIA PAT FISCHER 160 1966 PHILADELPHIA CHUCK HOWLEY 59 1966 TOPPS OTIS TAYLOR 75 1967 PHILADELPHIA LEE ROY JORDAN 54 1967 PHILADELPHIA TOMMY NOBIS 7 1968 TOPPS ANDY RUSSELL 163 1969 TOPPS DICK ANDERSON 59 1970 TOPPS RICH JACKSON 95 1971 TOPPS LEMAR PARRISH 233 1972 TOPPS L.C. GREENWOOD 101 1973 TOPPS BOB KUECHENBERG 367 1973 TOPPS KEN STABLER 487 1975 TOPPS CLIFF BRANCH 524 1975 TOPPS CLIFF HARRIS 490 1975 TOPPS DREW PEARSON 65 1976 TOPPS RANDY GRADISHAR 257 1976 TOPPS ROBERT BRAZILE 424 1980 TOPPS LESTER HAYES 195 1983 TOPPS GARY ANDERSON 356 1984 TOPPS MORTEN ANDERSEN 300 1984 TOPPS ROGER CRAIG 353 1987 TOPPS CHARLES HALEY 125 1988 TOPPS KEVIN GREENE 300 1989 SCORE STEVE ATW*TER 263 1989 SCORE TIM BROWN 86 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE JUNIOR SEAU 38 1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE LEROY BUTLER 10 1991 STADIUM CLUB BRETT FAVRE 94 1992 COLLECTORS EDGE JIMMY SMITH 228 1993 SP JASON ELAM 75 1993 SP JEROME BETTIS 6 1993 SP JOHN LYNCH 259 1993 SP WILL SHIELDS 123 1994 BOWMAN ISAAC BRUCE 68 1994 BOWMAN KEVIN MAWAE 135 1995 FINEST RUBEN BROWN 212 1995 SP TERRELL DAVIS 130 1996 BOWMANS BEST RAY LEWIS 164 1996 FINEST BRIAN DAWKINS 344 1996 SP MARVIN HARRISON 18 1996 SP TERRELL OWENS 7 1996 SP ZACH THOMAS 91 1997 PACIFIC PHILADELPHIA ADAM VINATIERI 199 1997 SP AUTHENTIC JASON TAYLOR 116 1997 SP AUTHENTIC ORLANDO PACE 1 1997 SP AUTHENTIC TONY GONZALEZ 11 1998 LEAF ROOKIES & STARS HINES WARD 202 1998 SP AUTHENTIC CHARLES WOODSON 23 1998 SP AUTHENTIC PEYTON MANNING 14 1998 SP AUTHENTIC RANDY MOSS 18 1999 PACIFIC KURT WARNER 1999 SP AUTHENTIC CHAMP BAILEY 111 1999 SP AUTHENTIC EDGERRIN JAMES 94 1999 SP AUTHENTIC TORRY HOLT 96 2000 SP AUTHENTIC BRIAN URLACHER 122 2000 SP AUTHENTIC TOM BRADY 118 2001 PACIFIC CROWN ROYALE STEVE HUTCHINSON 185 2001 TOPPS CHROME DREW BREES ROOKIE REFRACTOR 229 2001 TOPPS CHROME LADANIAN TOMLINSON ROOKIE REFRACTOR 221 2001 TOPPS CHROME RICHARD SEYMOUR ROOKIE REFRACTOR 282 2001 TOPPS CHROME REGGIE WAYNE ROOKIE REFRACTOR 250 2002 TOPPS CHROME DWIGHT FREENEY 171 2002 TOPPS CHROME ED REED 208 2002 TOPPS CHROME JULIUS PEPPERS 214 2002 UPPER DECK XL ALAN FANECA 362 2003 LEAF R & S ANTONIO GATES 132 2003 SP AUTHENTIC JASON WITTEN 199 2003 SP AUTHENTIC TROY POLAMALU 120 2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS 214 2004 TOPPS CHROME BEN ROETHLISBERGER 166 2004 SP AUTHENTIC JARED ALLEN 101 2004 TOPPS CHROME ELI MANNING 205 2005 TOPPS CHROME DEMARCUS WARE 213 2005 TOPPS CHROME AARON RODGERS 190 2007 TOPPS CHROME ADRIAN PETERSON 181 2007 TOPPS CHROME JOE THOMAS 264 2007 TOPPS CHROME DARRELLE REVIS 249 1991 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL BELICHICK 115 1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL COWHER 1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS MIKE HOLMGREN 1989 PRO SET JIMMY JOHNSON 98 1967 PHILADELPHIA DAN REEVES 58 1989 PRO SET ANNOUNCER STEVE SABOL 10 1989 PRO SET MIKE SHANNAHAN 194 1971 TOPPS MARTY SHOTTENHEIMER 3 1990 PRO SET PAUL TAGLIABUE CC2 1992 GREEN BAY PACKERS POLICE RON WOLF 1 1951 Topps Magic GEORGE YOUNG 48
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
Comments
I sent in the Friedman in the SCG holder to be graded. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Reese
HOF RC Auto Set
1955 Topps Football AA
1950 Bowman Football
1951 Bowman Football
1952 Bowman Football
ebay user- Jolt333
Please be sure to check out my auctions!
<< <i>This thread lives!!!! lol
I sent in the Friedman in the SCG holder to be graded. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Reese >>
Reese,
I hope that it gets authenticated. I still have a 1955 Topps AA Friedman that PSA rejected last year. As a matter of fact, I have a whole slew of signed rc that PSA has rejected (Friedman, Millner, Steve Owen, Finks) that PSA has rejected.....that I know are good.
Greg M.
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I think that Bud Adams is a good candidate for the HOF...so I'm glad to have this cards in my collection for that eventuality.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Paul Brown $400 obo
Sid Gillman $125 obo
Please PM if you're interested - thanks.
Greg M.
References:
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<< <i>I have three signed HOF rc if anyone is interested; Paul Brown, Sid Gillman and Bruce Smith:
Paul Brown $400 obo
Sid Gillman $125 obo
Bruce Smith $25 obo
Please PM if you're interested - thanks.
Greg M. >>
I'll take the Bruce Smith if it's available. PM sent.
"In Al We Trust!"
Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
Greg M.
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Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
- Cal Hubbard 1974 Fleer vs 1955 Bowman. I guess the fleer's about his football career while the bowman's about his umpiring career but it's still a much earlier trading card from a major company.
- Wellington Mara 1997 Topps vs 1991 Proset. Even though it also features Robert Tisch as well, it features Mara pretty prominently and is a much earlier card.
For both cases I prefer the card not used in the registry. What's everyone else think?
<< <i>Why/How were these registry selections made?
- Cal Hubbard 1974 Fleer vs 1955 Bowman. I guess the fleer's about his football career while the bowman's about his umpiring career but it's still a much earlier trading card from a major company.
- Wellington Mara 1997 Topps vs 1991 Proset. Even though it also features Robert Tisch as well, it features Mara pretty prominently and is a much earlier card.
For both cases I prefer the card not used in the registry. What's everyone else think? >>
Reese and I came up w/ the cards for the set based on (1) the cards used in the non-autographed HOF/Future Hall of fame registry sets and (2) the first non-regional set made for HOFers without regular rookie cards.
You bring up good points about Mara and Hubbard...and quite frankly, many of the cards that we chose were judgement calls. We did consult w/ other people on what cards would be best to use - and in the end decided to use the cards included in the set.
I don't think that we should be using Cal Hubbard's baseball card in the football registry. If you like the baseball card, then by all means add it to your collection. I've done the same thing w/ my collection. For instance, I consider Bud Grants 1954 Blue Ribbon Tea card as his true "rookie card". However, it was impossible for us to justify using it as his "rookie card" for the registry set because it is a CFL card, was from a Regional set issued in Canada, and is nearly impossible to find. I have a signed copy in my collection even though it's not his rookie card for the set.
As for Mara, we could vote on changing the card to his 1991 Pro Set card. I personally feel that the 1997 Topps is appropriate...but would be willing to put it up for a vote.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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So far it seems like the rules are:
1) Cards must be from a major manufacturer (Topps, Fleer, Upper Deck, Panini, Bowman, Score, ProSet)
2) Cards must feature only player listed
3) Cards must feature player in the capacity he was elected
4) Cards must have print run of at least ????
5) Of all cards that fit rules 1-4, the earliest year shall be used
6) Of all cards that fit rules 1-5, the most expensive shall be used
7) In the event of a tie, the shiniest card shall be used
My opinion on the current rules is:
#1 is good. Attempting to pick cards that are obtainable makes more people want to participate. The regional CFL card would be a bad choice.
Where does this leave the 1977 touchdown club, 1990 action packed, 1995 enor. Is the rule really any officially licensed card? Would it make more sense for bud grant to use the 2005 upper deck card? Why is enor better than the cfl card? If availability is the rule shouldn't we use a new more available card for the Chicle's and Sport Kings?
#2 is good. After more thought I agree the Mara card featuring only him is probably the better choice. However, I might add a clause that if this is the only choice during their career it should be used.
#3 Maybe I listed this rule wrong, but I think this one could use some clarification. Some tougher examples to consider:
Marty Schottenheimer: 1971 Topps card as a player vs 1989 Card as a head coach
Cal Hubbard: 1955 Card as a baseball player vs 1974 card as a football player
Steve Young (and others): 1984 USFL. Seems like the HOF doesn't take into account these other league's play. Making these sort of unrelated to why they were elected to the hall of fame. Almost more like XRC cards.
It seems like the options are (in order of my preference)
a) Earliest major trading card (1971 Schottenheimer, 1955 Hubbard, 1984 Young)
b) Earliest card for induction purposes (1989 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1986 Young)
c) Earliest card in some way related to football (1971 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1984 Young)
#4 If we're only going to choose one card then I agree they shouldn't be too limited (again more participation). What's the limiting number here? 1000? 2000? Even that seems kinda small. With 1000 cards, and probably 90%+ staying unsigned you limit the pool of those that can realistically participate to 100? Maybe it would make sense to pick the card with the biggest print run. Ex - topps base.
#5 sure, a rookie
#6 This seems to be the rule, but why? Shorter print run is more expensive/exclusive. Do we want expensive exclusive collections? Like in #4 I would pick the cheapest/most accessible. In Turn it might make your older cards more valuable. More people trying to complete set because of ease in early years makes more demand for older cards?
#7 I think this comes into play more in the future. But the Cortez Kennedy seems like an odd choice? Shiniest seems like the only difference in the action packed card vs his other ones? Aren't these shiny cards tougher to get good autographs on? What makes sense for the non autographed registry might not make sense for the autographed one.
Anyhow, it seems like a fun registry set. I'm pretty low down the list with only 25% complete working my way from oldest to newest. As I get into the newer cards I'm trying to figure out if it's a set I want to stick with or just focus on the pick any card you like set. So I'm trying to figure out the direction of future card selection to see if it's something I could possibly afford.
1948 Bulldog Turner (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Pete Pihos (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Sid Luckman (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 George McAfee (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Steve Van Buren (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Bob Waterfield (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Charley Trippi (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Sammy Baugh (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Bill Dudley (Leaf/Bowman)
1961 Jim Otto (Topps/Fleer)
1961 Don Maynard (Topps/Fleer)
The problem is starting around 1989 there starts to be 3-4 cards/player. Then in the late 90's to 2000's that number starts to explode even further. I think in the past Greg and others have commented that PSA didn't want to allow multiple options for the registry. To me it seems odd that wouldn't be allowed. I know it is allowed for both the Baseball and Hockey sets; though for baseball it looks like they're going to restrict newer issues to 1 card? Ex 1987 Fleer Larkin and 1988 Score Alomar. If we're going to restrict a selection of 10 possibilities to a single card, it seems like we need rules to do that.
As for the 1984 usfl cards in particular, my preference would be to allow either the 1984 (XRCs) or the regular 1986 (RCs) to complete the set. If I could only pick one, I think maybe I'd pick the 1986. You could even start a super master collector version of the registry set where super collectors could try to get *all* issues allowed.
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References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>I would think there are many cards that would be an either/or type situation. Here's an incomplete list where I think an either/or is appropriate. These are mostly the older cards as I haven't done as much research into the newer ones.
1948 Bulldog Turner (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Pete Pihos (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Sid Luckman (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 George McAfee (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Steve Van Buren (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Bob Waterfield (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Charley Trippi (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Sammy Baugh (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Bill Dudley (Leaf/Bowman)
1961 Jim Otto (Topps/Fleer)
1961 Don Maynard (Topps/Fleer)
The problem is starting around 1989 there starts to be 3-4 cards/player. Then in the late 90's to 2000's that number starts to explode even further. I think in the past Greg and others have commented that PSA didn't want to allow multiple options for the registry. To me it seems odd that wouldn't be allowed. I know it is allowed for both the Baseball and Hockey sets; though for baseball it looks like they're going to restrict newer issues to 1 card? Ex 1987 Fleer Larkin and 1988 Score Alomar. If we're going to restrict a selection of 10 possibilities to a single card, it seems like we need rules to do that.
As for the 1984 usfl cards in particular, my preference would be to allow either the 1984 (XRCs) or the regular 1986 (RCs) to complete the set. If I could only pick one, I think maybe I'd pick the 1986. You could even start a super master collector version of the registry set where super collectors could try to get *all* issues allowed. >>
Alex,
As always, I love your passion for this set. I have two points that I'd like to make.
First, I'm personally on the fence about whether to allow two+ cards for certain slots. Doing so would actually help me because I have a Pihos signed 48 Leaf and a Van Buren signed 48 Bowman. I feel that adding this flexibility would somewhat diminish the exclusivity of the set. The set was always intended to mimic the NFL HOF unsigned set - and was meant to include the best card of each player. As you know, especially with the 48 Bowman/Leaf cards, the Bowman short prints are generally more valuable than the Leaf card (assuming the same player) and the 1948 Leaf high numbers are more valuable than the 1948 Bowman card. In both cases (i.e. Bowman short prints and Leaf high numbers), the raw cards are very difficult to find and expensive when you do. Take Pete Pihos for example. His best rookie card is the Bowman card because it is a short print. Over the past 5 years, I've seen exactly 1 signed Pete Pihos Bowman rc even though Pete Pihos signed cards, in general, are plentiful to find. So, I think that what you're gaining in flexibility, you're losing in exclusivity.
Second, I discussed this issue w/ PSA several years ago and they adamantly opposed allowed multiple cards for a single slot. I know they allow this flexibility for some other sets - but I think they try to discourage this as much as possible because of IT complexity (which is how I believe it was described to me).
That's my 2 cents for what its worth.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
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Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>I think a set of rules should dictate the selection rather than a voting panel. The panel can vote on the rules, but a panel for selection on individual cards opens up the process to bias - especially if cards or better/worse cards are included in their collection.
So far it seems like the rules are:
1) Cards must be from a major manufacturer (Topps, Fleer, Upper Deck, Panini, Bowman, Score, ProSet)
2) Cards must feature only player listed
3) Cards must feature player in the capacity he was elected
4) Cards must have print run of at least ????
5) Of all cards that fit rules 1-4, the earliest year shall be used
6) Of all cards that fit rules 1-5, the most expensive shall be used
7) In the event of a tie, the shiniest card shall be used
My opinion on the current rules is:
#1 is good. Attempting to pick cards that are obtainable makes more people want to participate. The regional CFL card would be a bad choice.
Where does this leave the 1977 touchdown club, 1990 action packed, 1995 enor. Is the rule really any officially licensed card? Would it make more sense for bud grant to use the 2005 upper deck card? Why is enor better than the cfl card? If availability is the rule shouldn't we use a new more available card for the Chicle's and Sport Kings?
#2 is good. After more thought I agree the Mara card featuring only him is probably the better choice. However, I might add a clause that if this is the only choice during their career it should be used.
#3 Maybe I listed this rule wrong, but I think this one could use some clarification. Some tougher examples to consider:
Marty Schottenheimer: 1971 Topps card as a player vs 1989 Card as a head coach
Cal Hubbard: 1955 Card as a baseball player vs 1974 card as a football player
Steve Young (and others): 1984 USFL. Seems like the HOF doesn't take into account these other league's play. Making these sort of unrelated to why they were elected to the hall of fame. Almost more like XRC cards.
It seems like the options are (in order of my preference)
a) Earliest major trading card (1971 Schottenheimer, 1955 Hubbard, 1984 Young)
b) Earliest card for induction purposes (1989 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1986 Young)
c) Earliest card in some way related to football (1971 Schottenheimer, 1974 Hubbard, 1984 Young)
#4 If we're only going to choose one card then I agree they shouldn't be too limited (again more participation). What's the limiting number here? 1000? 2000? Even that seems kinda small. With 1000 cards, and probably 90%+ staying unsigned you limit the pool of those that can realistically participate to 100? Maybe it would make sense to pick the card with the biggest print run. Ex - topps base.
#5 sure, a rookie
#6 This seems to be the rule, but why? Shorter print run is more expensive/exclusive. Do we want expensive exclusive collections? Like in #4 I would pick the cheapest/most accessible. In Turn it might make your older cards more valuable. More people trying to complete set because of ease in early years makes more demand for older cards?
#7 I think this comes into play more in the future. But the Cortez Kennedy seems like an odd choice? Shiniest seems like the only difference in the action packed card vs his other ones? Aren't these shiny cards tougher to get good autographs on? What makes sense for the non autographed registry might not make sense for the autographed one.
Anyhow, it seems like a fun registry set. I'm pretty low down the list with only 25% complete working my way from oldest to newest. As I get into the newer cards I'm trying to figure out if it's a set I want to stick with or just focus on the pick any card you like set. So I'm trying to figure out the direction of future card selection to see if it's something I could possibly afford. >>
Alex -
I'm sorry that I haven't responded sooner. I started a response 8 weeks ago and am only finishing it now. I have ADP (auditory processing disorder) and have an especially difficult time w/ long e-mails/responses. I wasn't trying to ignore your great questions...
Anyways....As I said before, our starting point was the HOF rc and future HOF rookie sets. Whatever card was chosen for those sets was automatically the rc for our sets. The criteria for inclusion in the HOF rc and future HOF rc sets are that the card has to be the earliest card issued, with the highest value from a major manufacturer and with a print run of 999 or more. For 1989 and before the choice was generally simple. One point of contention 5+ years ago (w/ the HOF rc set) here was whether to use the USFL or Topps rc for Steve Young, Reggie White and Jim Kelly. Since, the majority chose the USFL cards (which I personally agree with), these cards are included in both the regular and signed HOF rc sets. Since the HOF rc is only players, it excludes coaches and contributors. It also excludes cards such as the 1974/1975 Fleer and 1977 Touchdown that weren't considered true rookie cards. Since Reese and I wanted to get as inclusive as possible, we decided to include the 1974/1975 Fleer and 1977 Touchdown sets. Even though they weren't nationally distributed, they are easy enough to find and are better than nothing (in my opinion). We also decided to include the coaches and contributors who appeared on major issues such as the 1974/1975 Fleer, ENOR sets which is why, for example, we chose the ENOR Bud Grant instead of the 2005 UD Legends.
Also, my response to your comments below are:
1) I agree that #1 is good. I fought to include the 1977 Touchdown, otherwise we couldn't include Tuffy Leemans since it was the only card made of him before he died. I believe the other three HOFers that we're using the 1977 Touchdown card had subsequent ENOR or Swell cards issued before they died (Willis, Musso and Flaherty). I don't think they diminish anything from the set and are plentiful enough to find.
I don't understand your point about the 1995 ENOR set...(I'm not being sarcastic). It was the first officially licensed card made of Bud Grant. We didn't include his 1954 CFL card because (1) it is from a different league and (2) it's from a regional set that would be nearly impossible for most collectors to find. I would personally prefer the 1954 CFL card (since I probably have one of the few signed copies that exist), but its inclusion wouldn't be fair to other set collectors.
I hate the inclusion of the 1990 Action Packed cards....repeat hate. That was PSA's doing, not mine. A couple of years ago, PSA determined that the most expensive rc of Junior Seau and Cortez Kennedy was the 1990 Action Packed card....so they changed the set composition of the HOF rc and signed HOF rc set (Seau and Kennedy were previously the 1990 Score Supplemental). They tried to do the same thing w/ the Lou Creekmur card (i.e. change from 1951 Bowman to 1950 Topps felt back)...but I threw such a fit that they backed off. After all, the Topps Felt back cards would be nearly impossible to sign. I would be all for getting rid of the Action Packed cards - because the card fronts are not conducive to autographing. If you guys support me, I would bring the issue up w/ PSA.
Finally, I personally think that we should keep the Sport Kings and Chicles. I know for a fact, that two 1933 Sport Kings exist as does a 1935 Chicle Dutch Clark and Ken Strong. I would venture to guess the other cards exist, but in very limited quantities. As an alternative, have you thought about creating a post war set? That way, we could add cards from 1948 onwards and substitute the 1974/1975 Fleer or 1977 Touchdown in lieu of the 33 SK and 35 Chicles? That way, only the true masochists can attempt the pre-war set (including myself).
2) I agree w/ your added clause
3) I would go with option C with the clarification of replacing “football” with “NFL”.
4) Once again, we followed the HOF RC set choice of rc – which is the most expensive non-autographed card with a print run of ~ 1,000 or more. I don’t that that rule applies much anymore because the days of the limited numbered, no autographed rc are gone (peaked in late 90’s, e.g. Manning, Brady rc). I really struggle w/ what the right answer is here. I love the idea of the 1998 Manning and 2000 SP Brady in the set. Those are clearly 2 of the top cards produced in the late 90’s/early 00’s. I can’t imagine leaving those out of the set. Then again, maybe the easiest choice would be to require the basic Topps card. However, how do we deal with players who didn’t have a regular Topps card issued until after their rookie year (e.g. Antonio Gates)?
5) Agree
6) Addressed in #4 above
7) As you point out, the shiniest card may look nice but typically don’t have surfaces that autographs adhere to. Maybe this is the point where the HOF rc and signed HOF rc sets diverge. We need to include cards with surfaces that autographs will adhere to.
If we can agree to a set of rules, then I have no problem approaching PSA w/ any proposed changes to the set (whether retroactive or prospective). Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
Greg M.
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<< <i>The Baseball HOF Signed Rookie Registry has 3 different players who have 2 cards possible for the registry set, they are Satchell Paige, George Kell, and Larry Doby. For each of these players you can use either their 1948 Leaf or 1949 Bowman cards for the registry. Maybe it could be designated that for Steve Young & Reggie White you could use either their 1984 Topps USFL or 1986 Topps cards. Thoughts? >>
I'll address your question in my response to Alex...thx.
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<< <i>I would think there are many cards that would be an either/or type situation. Here's an incomplete list where I think an either/or is appropriate. These are mostly the older cards as I haven't done as much research into the newer ones.
1948 Bulldog Turner (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Pete Pihos (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Sid Luckman (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 George McAfee (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Steve Van Buren (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Bob Waterfield (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Charley Trippi (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Sammy Baugh (Leaf/Bowman)
1948 Bill Dudley (Leaf/Bowman)
1961 Jim Otto (Topps/Fleer)
1961 Don Maynard (Topps/Fleer)
The problem is starting around 1989 there starts to be 3-4 cards/player. Then in the late 90's to 2000's that number starts to explode even further. I think in the past Greg and others have commented that PSA didn't want to allow multiple options for the registry. To me it seems odd that wouldn't be allowed. I know it is allowed for both the Baseball and Hockey sets; though for baseball it looks like they're going to restrict newer issues to 1 card? Ex 1987 Fleer Larkin and 1988 Score Alomar. If we're going to restrict a selection of 10 possibilities to a single card, it seems like we need rules to do that.
As for the 1984 usfl cards in particular, my preference would be to allow either the 1984 (XRCs) or the regular 1986 (RCs) to complete the set. If I could only pick one, I think maybe I'd pick the 1986. You could even start a super master collector version of the registry set where super collectors could try to get *all* issues allowed. >>
Alex,
Yes - PSA pushed back on the idea of adding multiple choices for a single slot. I think that it's difficult from a back office perspective (IT programming??) and they prefer a single card choice per slot. Personally, I prefer a single card per slot but would go w/ the majority on this. Being able to add multiple cards would help me because I have the "wrong" signed rc of Steve Van Buren (48 Bowman) and Pete Pihos (48 Leaf). Should we put this up to a vote for current set owners?
Rgs,
Greg M.
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Edited to say that I didn't see previous post before posting...but I still think some sort of uniformity per year is the right way to go.
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<< <i>Very nice signed seau! >>
Ditto!
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The thing I like least about the current rules set is the highly subjective 'most expensive' card. Two major issues with this:
1) This becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. I think PSA's somewhat arbitrary decision on the action packed cards are making those the most expensive. Maybe this is just how the game works.
2) Current stars not in the future HOF registry set are tough to collect. Let's say I had an opportunity to get a Ndamukong Suh autograph. I have no idea which rookie card I would get it on. My only choice is to wait until players achieve that superstar status and charge ridiculous autograph fee's. It would be at least nice if I could say by year how a choice would be made. Is there a list like this somewhere? What is it for 2005-2014? When would the decision be made for 2015?
1997 - SP Authentic, Pacific
1998 - SP Authentic, Leaf
1999 - SP Authentic, Pacific
2000 - SP Authentic
2001 - Chrome, Pacific
2002 - Chrome, Upper Deck
I think in the end my confusion was from the name of the registry set. Maybe this set would be more aptly named:
Pro Football Hall of Fame Most Expensive Rookie Players/Coaches/Admin Autographs
Perhaps there could be room for another set:
Pro Football Hall of Fame Any Rookie Players/Coaches/Admin Autographs
Though I think people with the desire to collect Hall of Fame rookies are by nature likely to collect the most expensive ones. Unfortunately my budget probably precludes that, or dooms me to at best 50% completion. I may try to request a set that allows any rookie and participate in both. Ultimately focusing on the one with the most participants.
Thanks again for all the feedback.
Time to get back to the cards! Here's my pickups from the last 6 months or so, got a bunch done at a recent show and some pickups from other collectors. Hopefully I got the right ones:
Sorry, he's not
Nice pickups - I especially like the George McAfee. That's the nicest signature that I've seen on a 1948 Leaf. Congrats.
Greg M.
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First off is a Derrick Brooks that I bought from Mill Creek. It's the nicest Derrick Brooks autograph that I've seen. He normally signs with only his initials....
Next up is a 1948 Bowman Charley Conerly that I purchased off E-Bay. It's the only signed Charley Conerly rc (either Leaf or Bowman) that I've seen.
Next is a signed Hines Ward rc that I was finally able to wrangle from a fellow board member.
Finally, I purchased a signed Curly Culp rc. It was an upgrade to the card in my set. The bottom card is for sale $50 dlvd if anyone is interested.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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The Unitas is for sale if anyone is interested. It's a nice vintage ballpoint signature.
23287686 0202501280 1950 BOWMAN 128 JIM FINKS 2 Cert Printed
23287687 0201571380 1957 TOPPS 138 JOHNNY UNITAS 1 Cert Printed
23287688 0292520570 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 57 WAYNE MILLNER 5 Cert Printed
23287689 0201550640 1955 TOPPS ALL-AMER. 64 BENNY FRIEDMAN 4 Cert Printed
Rgs,
Greg M.
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<< <i>Great news - the Finks, Millner and Friedman were FINALLY authenticated after several failed attempts. I knew they were good...I was waiting for PSA to finally agree with me
The Unitas is for sale if anyone is interested. It's a nice vintage ballpoint signature.
23287686 0202501280 1950 BOWMAN 128 JIM FINKS 2 Cert Printed
23287687 0201571380 1957 TOPPS 138 JOHNNY UNITAS 1 Cert Printed
23287688 0292520570 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 57 WAYNE MILLNER 5 Cert Printed
23287689 0201550640 1955 TOPPS ALL-AMER. 64 BENNY FRIEDMAN 4 Cert Printed
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
I received my order from PSA today - below are scans for the Millner, Finks and Friedman.
Also, I just picked this up from E-Bay. Based on the exemplars that I have, I think that it's good. Thoughts?
Rgs,
Greg M.
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<< <i>I realize that my set does not rank very highly on the registry, and so my opinion matters little here, but I think that the 1990 Action Packed cards should stay. Specifically, I think that straying from the unsigned HOF RC set just for aesthetic reasons is a slippery slope. Should the '61 Fleer Maynard be changed to the '61 Topps because the Fleer has a dark photo? Should Ray Lewis' card-of-choice be the Stadium Club because the Bowman's Best is too chromey? True, it's difficult to get a nice signature on the front of an Action Packed card, but it's far from impossible. I have a nicely signed '90 AP Seau, and I think it's stunning -- one of the most aesthetically pleasing cards in my collection. I have also seen some really nice looking signed '90 AP Cortez Kennedy's -- they are not easy to find, but they are out there. Anyone seriously chasing this set knows that it requires some impossibly rare and expensive cards already, so I don't see why the three Action Packed cards need to be removed in favor of "easier" ones.
I value your opinion as much as anyone else's.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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The highest price is based on the beckett guide...so for some reason, the 1990 Action Packed Junior Agree / Cortez Kennedy are worth more than any other rookie card. Personally, I like the Score Supplemental cards - since that was the "best" set back in 1990 - mostly because of Emmitt Smith's rc. In addition, what card do we choose for Shannon Sharpe? His 1990 Action Packed card is his only rookie card. He has 3 cards issued in 1991; Bowman, Topps and Pacific. I would almost prefer any of his 1991 cards over his Action Packed cards.
Maybe we stick with the cards chosen up through 2000 (except possibly for the 1990 Action Packed cards) and focus our attention on 2001+ when the certified autographed craze took off. From 2001 onwards, maybe we could set an order of preference – such as (1) SP Authentic (non-autographed – e.g. 2003 SP Authentic Jason Witten), (2) Regular Topps and (3) only/best non-autographed rookie card (e.g. 2003 Leaf R&S Antonio Gates). I would personally prefer to stay away from the Chrome cards. Autographs smear too easily on the glossy surface.
What are your thoughts? I could put together a list for every future HOFer and everyone can chime in as to which card should be chosen for the set.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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As for Seau/Kennedy, it seems like there's a lot of possibilities. I guess there's no estimated print runs from 1990 football? I looked into 'Action Packed' a little more and they're not as obscure as I originally thought. Below probably summarizes my thoughts on the possibilities:
Action Packed - Semi-Major Brand (7 years of sets), licensed, pack issued, low print run, premium product, shiny
Fleer Update - Major brand, issued as a set, low print run
Proset - Major Brand, pack issued, high print run
Score - Major Brand, pack issued, high print run
Score Supplemental - Major brand, issued as a set, low print run
Stars N Stripes - Minor brand, pack issued, low print run, licensed?
Topps - Major Brand, pack issued, high print run
Topps Traded - Major brand, issued as a set, low print run
After looking at this, I think my vote is actually probably for the action packed cards. My considerations in order:
- Licensed cards are a must
- I prefer pack issued over only complete set issued
- I prefer lower print run over high print run
- I prefer non-shiny
- I prefer premium product over base printing techniques
If any of the update/supplemental/traded cards were pack issued I might change my vote, but I believe they were only issued as complete sets right?
I think for 2000+ it would be nice to order the sets. I think generally for most years it's the same, but it could possibly change from year to year - ex upper deck lost it's license at some point I think. I'd say throw something out there for the years and we can vote on it.
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<< <i>I think the Luckman looks good. I had a competitive snipe setup, I guess you got the seller to end it early? >>
Alex,
Nice Joe Thomas!! I agree w/ you...I think that it's good. Plus, the card is in great shape and has great color. Yes, the seller and I agreed to a price and he ended the auction. Did you see the 1948 Bowman Luckman that he has for sale? It's VERY nice....signed in silver sharpie.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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Ended up using my spending money for the month on this thing. So I'm tapped out until September anyhow.
<< <i>Chrome cards do not smear if done correctly. Believe me, you can have fails just as big on this generation's glossy regular Topps cards. It would absolutely be a mistake to do limited print run SP Authentic cards or run of the mill regular Topps. Topps Chorme from 2001-2014 are 100% the base cards you want to have.
Mike,
Using the Topps Chrome cards from 2001 to 2014 isn't a bad idea. I do have a couple of Topps Chrome cards that look good - but I'm leery of the glossy surface. However, as you point out, if the cards are properly prepared the autograph will generally adhere to the card surface. I still have an affinity for the SP Authentic non-autographed rookie cards....so I'm not ready to give up on those yet.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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Rgs,
Greg M.
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<< <i>Chrome cards do not smear if done correctly. Believe me, you can have fails just as big on this generation's glossy regular Topps cards. It would absolutely be a mistake to do limited print run SP Authentic cards or run of the mill regular Topps. Topps Chorme from 2001-2014 are 100% the base cards you
Mike,
Using the Topps Chrome cards from 2001 to 2014 isn't a bad idea. I do have a couple of Topps Chrome cards that look good - but I'm leery of the glossy surface. However, as you point out, if the cards are properly prepared the autograph will generally adhere to the card surface. I still have an affinity for the SP Authentic non-autographed rookie cards....so I'm not ready to give up on those yet.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
I can certainly see that opinion. To be honest though, the SP Authentic cards have a pretty good smear rate if not properly prepared (on the glossy parts) too. My issue with them is that they're typically serial numbered. I always prefer non-serial numbered if a good alternative non-serial one is available.
But to be honest, I have my cards split half between SP Authentic and Topps Chrome largely because this decision hadn't been made. Yes, I prefer the Topps Chrome but in all honestly, I just want a decision to be made so I don't waste time on cards that will not be eligible.
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Greg M.
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Below is the list that I keep of all the future Hall of Famers and their corresponding rookie cards. I haven't updated the list in over a year - so please let me know if there are any other players that should be added.
I'm still not 100% convinced that we should keep the Action Packed card for Seau and Kennedy. I think that we should use the 1990 Score Supplemental but will go with the consensus.
Rgs,
Greg M.
1948 LEAF AL “WHITEY” WISTERT 28
1948 LEAF CHARLIE CONERLY 53
1950 BOWMAN MAC SPEEDIE 8
1955 BOWMAN BILLY WILSON 81
1955 BOWMAN DICK STANFEL 36
1959 TOPPS ALEX KARRAS 103
1959 TOPPS DEL SHOFNER 15
1959 TOPPS GENE LIPSCOMB 36
1959 TOPPS JERRY KRAMER 116
1961 FLEER JOHN BRODIE 59
1961 FLEER JOHNNY ROBINSON 202
1961 FLEER MAXIE BAUGHAN 56
1963 TOPPS JIM MARSHALL 107
1964 PHILADELPHIA MICK TINGELHOFF 110
1964 TOPPS ED BUDDE 93
1964 TOPPS JIM TYRER 108
1964 TOPPS JOHN HADL 159
1965 PHILADELPHIA PAT FISCHER 160
1966 PHILADELPHIA CHUCK HOWLEY 59
1966 TOPPS OTIS TAYLOR 75
1967 PHILADELPHIA LEE ROY JORDAN 54
1967 PHILADELPHIA TOMMY NOBIS 7
1968 TOPPS ANDY RUSSELL 163
1969 TOPPS DICK ANDERSON 59
1970 TOPPS RICH JACKSON 95
1971 TOPPS LEMAR PARRISH 233
1972 TOPPS L.C. GREENWOOD 101
1973 TOPPS BOB KUECHENBERG 367
1973 TOPPS KEN STABLER 487
1975 TOPPS CLIFF BRANCH 524
1975 TOPPS CLIFF HARRIS 490
1975 TOPPS DREW PEARSON 65
1976 TOPPS RANDY GRADISHAR 257
1976 TOPPS ROBERT BRAZILE 424
1980 TOPPS LESTER HAYES 195
1983 TOPPS GARY ANDERSON 356
1984 TOPPS MORTEN ANDERSEN 300
1984 TOPPS ROGER CRAIG 353
1987 TOPPS CHARLES HALEY 125
1988 TOPPS KEVIN GREENE 300
1989 SCORE STEVE ATW*TER 263
1989 SCORE TIM BROWN 86
1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE JUNIOR SEAU 38
1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE LEROY BUTLER 10
1991 STADIUM CLUB BRETT FAVRE 94
1992 COLLECTORS EDGE JIMMY SMITH 228
1993 SP JASON ELAM 75
1993 SP JEROME BETTIS 6
1993 SP JOHN LYNCH 259
1993 SP WILL SHIELDS 123
1994 BOWMAN ISAAC BRUCE 68
1994 BOWMAN KEVIN MAWAE 135
1995 FINEST RUBEN BROWN 212
1995 SP TERRELL DAVIS 130
1996 BOWMANS BEST RAY LEWIS 164
1996 FINEST BRIAN DAWKINS 344
1996 SP MARVIN HARRISON 18
1996 SP TERRELL OWENS 7
1996 SP ZACH THOMAS 91
1997 PACIFIC PHILADELPHIA ADAM VINATIERI 199
1997 SP AUTHENTIC JASON TAYLOR 116
1997 SP AUTHENTIC ORLANDO PACE 1
1997 SP AUTHENTIC TONY GONZALEZ 11
1998 LEAF ROOKIES & STARS HINES WARD 202
1998 SP AUTHENTIC CHARLES WOODSON 23
1998 SP AUTHENTIC PEYTON MANNING 14
1998 SP AUTHENTIC RANDY MOSS 18
1999 PACIFIC KURT WARNER
1999 SP AUTHENTIC CHAMP BAILEY 111
1999 SP AUTHENTIC EDGERRIN JAMES 94
1999 SP AUTHENTIC TORRY HOLT 96
2000 SP AUTHENTIC BRIAN URLACHER 122
2000 SP AUTHENTIC TOM BRADY 118
2001 PACIFIC CROWN ROYALE STEVE HUTCHINSON 185
2001 TOPPS CHROME DREW BREES ROOKIE REFRACTOR 229
2001 TOPPS CHROME LADANIAN TOMLINSON ROOKIE REFRACTOR 221
2001 TOPPS CHROME RICHARD SEYMOUR ROOKIE REFRACTOR 282
2002 TOPPS CHROME DWIGHT FREENEY 171
2002 TOPPS CHROME ED REED 208
2002 TOPPS CHROME JULIUS PEPPERS 214
2002 UPPER DECK XL ALAN FANECA 362
2003 LEAF R & S ANTONIO GATES 132
2003 SP AUTHENTIC JASON WITTEN 199
2003 SP AUTHENTIC TROY POLAMALU 120
2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS 214
2004 TOPPS CHROME BEN ROETHLISBERGER 166
2004 SP AUTHENTIC JARED ALLEN 101
2004 TOPPS CHROME ELI MANNING 205
2005 TOPPS CHROME DEMARCUS WARE 213
1991 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL BELICHICK 115
1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL COWHER
1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS MIKE HOLMGREN
1989 PRO SET JIMMY JOHNSON 98
1967 PHILADELPHIA DAN REEVES 58
1989 PRO SET ANNOUNCER STEVE SABOL 10
1989 PRO SET MIKE SHANNAHAN 194
1971 TOPPS MARTY SHOTTENHEIMER 3
1990 PRO SET PAUL TAGLIABUE CC2
1992 GREEN BAY PACKERS POLICE RON WOLF 1
1951 Topps Magic GEORGE YOUNG 48
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<< <i>Yes, I saw the bowman as well but you guys have me convinced that's no good and I have to try to collect only the leaf.
Ended up using my spending money for the month on this thing. So I'm tapped out until September anyhow. >>
Alex,
Nice! Are you a tennis player or is that for a family member?
Rgs,
Greg M.
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<< <i>Greg, I think your Future List is pretty accurate. I would add the 2001 Topps Chrome Reggie Wayne card, 2005 Topps Chrome Aaron Rodgers, 2007 Topps Chrome Adrian Peterson, 2007 Topps Chrome Joe Thomas and 2007 Topps Chrome Darelle Revis. >>
Will do - thanks for the input. Plus, I think that we can take Eli Manning off the list. I think that he was added right after winning his second Super Bowl.
Rgs,
Greg M.
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1948 LEAF AL “WHITEY” WISTERT 28
1948 LEAF CHARLIE CONERLY 53
1950 BOWMAN MAC SPEEDIE 8
1955 BOWMAN BILLY WILSON 81
1955 BOWMAN DICK STANFEL 36
1959 TOPPS ALEX KARRAS 103
1959 TOPPS DEL SHOFNER 15
1959 TOPPS GENE LIPSCOMB 36
1959 TOPPS JERRY KRAMER 116
1961 FLEER JOHN BRODIE 59
1961 FLEER JOHNNY ROBINSON 202
1961 FLEER MAXIE BAUGHAN 56
1963 TOPPS JIM MARSHALL 107
1964 PHILADELPHIA MICK TINGELHOFF 110
1964 TOPPS ED BUDDE 93
1964 TOPPS JIM TYRER 108
1964 TOPPS JOHN HADL 159
1965 PHILADELPHIA PAT FISCHER 160
1966 PHILADELPHIA CHUCK HOWLEY 59
1966 TOPPS OTIS TAYLOR 75
1967 PHILADELPHIA LEE ROY JORDAN 54
1967 PHILADELPHIA TOMMY NOBIS 7
1968 TOPPS ANDY RUSSELL 163
1969 TOPPS DICK ANDERSON 59
1970 TOPPS RICH JACKSON 95
1971 TOPPS LEMAR PARRISH 233
1972 TOPPS L.C. GREENWOOD 101
1973 TOPPS BOB KUECHENBERG 367
1973 TOPPS KEN STABLER 487
1975 TOPPS CLIFF BRANCH 524
1975 TOPPS CLIFF HARRIS 490
1975 TOPPS DREW PEARSON 65
1976 TOPPS RANDY GRADISHAR 257
1976 TOPPS ROBERT BRAZILE 424
1980 TOPPS LESTER HAYES 195
1983 TOPPS GARY ANDERSON 356
1984 TOPPS MORTEN ANDERSEN 300
1984 TOPPS ROGER CRAIG 353
1987 TOPPS CHARLES HALEY 125
1988 TOPPS KEVIN GREENE 300
1989 SCORE STEVE ATW*TER 263
1989 SCORE TIM BROWN 86
1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE JUNIOR SEAU 38
1990 ACTION PACKED ROOKIE UPDATE LEROY BUTLER 10
1991 STADIUM CLUB BRETT FAVRE 94
1992 COLLECTORS EDGE JIMMY SMITH 228
1993 SP JASON ELAM 75
1993 SP JEROME BETTIS 6
1993 SP JOHN LYNCH 259
1993 SP WILL SHIELDS 123
1994 BOWMAN ISAAC BRUCE 68
1994 BOWMAN KEVIN MAWAE 135
1995 FINEST RUBEN BROWN 212
1995 SP TERRELL DAVIS 130
1996 BOWMANS BEST RAY LEWIS 164
1996 FINEST BRIAN DAWKINS 344
1996 SP MARVIN HARRISON 18
1996 SP TERRELL OWENS 7
1996 SP ZACH THOMAS 91
1997 PACIFIC PHILADELPHIA ADAM VINATIERI 199
1997 SP AUTHENTIC JASON TAYLOR 116
1997 SP AUTHENTIC ORLANDO PACE 1
1997 SP AUTHENTIC TONY GONZALEZ 11
1998 LEAF ROOKIES & STARS HINES WARD 202
1998 SP AUTHENTIC CHARLES WOODSON 23
1998 SP AUTHENTIC PEYTON MANNING 14
1998 SP AUTHENTIC RANDY MOSS 18
1999 PACIFIC KURT WARNER
1999 SP AUTHENTIC CHAMP BAILEY 111
1999 SP AUTHENTIC EDGERRIN JAMES 94
1999 SP AUTHENTIC TORRY HOLT 96
2000 SP AUTHENTIC BRIAN URLACHER 122
2000 SP AUTHENTIC TOM BRADY 118
2001 PACIFIC CROWN ROYALE STEVE HUTCHINSON 185
2001 TOPPS CHROME DREW BREES ROOKIE REFRACTOR 229
2001 TOPPS CHROME LADANIAN TOMLINSON ROOKIE REFRACTOR 221
2001 TOPPS CHROME RICHARD SEYMOUR ROOKIE REFRACTOR 282
2001 TOPPS CHROME REGGIE WAYNE ROOKIE REFRACTOR 250
2002 TOPPS CHROME DWIGHT FREENEY 171
2002 TOPPS CHROME ED REED 208
2002 TOPPS CHROME JULIUS PEPPERS 214
2002 UPPER DECK XL ALAN FANECA 362
2003 LEAF R & S ANTONIO GATES 132
2003 SP AUTHENTIC JASON WITTEN 199
2003 SP AUTHENTIC TROY POLAMALU 120
2003 TOPPS CHROME KEVIN WILLIAMS 214
2004 TOPPS CHROME BEN ROETHLISBERGER 166
2004 SP AUTHENTIC JARED ALLEN 101
2004 TOPPS CHROME ELI MANNING 205
2005 TOPPS CHROME DEMARCUS WARE 213
2005 TOPPS CHROME AARON RODGERS 190
2007 TOPPS CHROME ADRIAN PETERSON 181
2007 TOPPS CHROME JOE THOMAS 264
2007 TOPPS CHROME DARRELLE REVIS 249
1991 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL BELICHICK 115
1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS BILL COWHER
1992 PROLINE PORTRAITS MIKE HOLMGREN
1989 PRO SET JIMMY JOHNSON 98
1967 PHILADELPHIA DAN REEVES 58
1989 PRO SET ANNOUNCER STEVE SABOL 10
1989 PRO SET MIKE SHANNAHAN 194
1971 TOPPS MARTY SHOTTENHEIMER 3
1990 PRO SET PAUL TAGLIABUE CC2
1992 GREEN BAY PACKERS POLICE RON WOLF 1
1951 Topps Magic GEORGE YOUNG 48
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg