Boston has $20M options on Manny for both 2009 and 2010. So, he can't get more (!) than that. He should retire in a Sox uniform, but it is possible that another younger player (Texiera?) could get a contract that could allow them to let Manny go. I certainly hope not.
The Yankees won so many world series in the 90's because they had pitching. Pettite, Wells, Clemens, Rivera, Wettland and all the others were just too good.
The Red Sox will win now and in the future because of pitching and speed on defense. With or without Manny will not really matter IMO.
Just look at Arod and the Yankees. Good hitter and no pitching equals no success.
I think we say goodbye to Manny unless he wants less money. We could use a lot of his money to sign a top notch pitcher.
Too add to that if it wasn't for Keith Foulke and Josh Beckett, we would have never won two world series. I think we could have won both years without Manny Ramirez. That is subject to debate because he did have some nice hot streaks during those regular seasons. But I remember guys like JD Drew (early 2007) and Papi (2004) who carried the club just as well as Manny did.
<< <i>Boston has $20M options on Manny for both 2009 and 2010. So, he can't get more (!) than that. He should retire in a Sox uniform, but it is possible that another younger player (Texiera?) could get a contract that could allow them to let Manny go. I certainly hope not. >>
I do believe the Sox are entertaining the idea of Texeira at first base and Youkilis converted to left field. If Manny can play left in Fenway, Youkilis sure as heck can play it better.
That was truly pathetic. Another Manny moment in left field as well. For someone who's got a 20 million dollar option to picked up, it sure looks like he doesn't care sometimes.
I bailed last night at 4-3. Glad I didn't stay up to see the Hansen/Timlin show.
Anybody wanna list who they think will either be traded/gone next week, or those who won't be in a Red Sox uniform in 2009?
Ponder this...Manny grew up in Washington Heights, a short distance from King George Stadium. I suspect his ego will demand $20m or more, thus, begin to think of Manny in pinstripes, ala Clemens and Boggs before him. I think King George's minions would drool to get Manny and give him half the moon to get him. I'm pretty sure we have left field covered with the talent on hand. Manny's numbers are down and I don't think throwing a big chunk of money at him is gonna change anything with his performance or attitude. Pissing off the owner is not a good thing.
Anybody who thinks Manny will ever be a Yankee is hitting up the bong pipe way to much. Does anybody have to remind you guys the Yanks PASSED on him already when the Sox were dangling him around the last few years?
And, do I have to remind you that Clemens and Boggs actually won WORLD SERIES in New York
And do I have to remind you that after all of this Sox Nation elitist bashing of the Yankees and how "horrible" they are .... just FIVE games seperates them
I agree, Manny will not be in a Yankee uniform. But, that's hardly because the Yankees wouldn't want him (after all, they just signed Mariners castoff and malcontent Richie Sexson because they need someone who can hit). After all is said and done, I believe Manny knows that the best place for him is Boston, protecting Ortiz in the lineup. He can go nowhere else and have that, plus have a legion of fans who actually enjoy watching "Manny being Manny". The Yankees would try and make him conform, and he would be miserable.
Beckett today, and hopefully a little more offense.
The Yankees will have to pay Sexson only the prorated minimum of $390,000 from his $14 million salary with the Mariners. ( That is a piddly 150 grand) Seattle is eating the remainder of the nearly $6 million Sexson is owed for the season. Lets not compare peanuts like this to a guy who will command 20 million per year like Ramirez.
Lets be real and take the Sox blinders off for a second. ANYBODY who has had some degree of success in the bigs very recently is worth a gamble at 150,000 dollars.
Manny won't be a Yankee because he'd have to cut his "hair" off. Plus, there's no room in the left field wall for him to go into during pitching changes.
why the inability to score runs away from Fenway? Not a "lessened ability" -- it seems like a complete inability. And everytime Wakefield takes the mound. Ugh!
The Sox are proving to be a AWFUL road team. Take them away from Fenway and they are the KC Royals of the last 10 years. Yeah yeah yeah blast me for THAT comment. Look at the record. It speaks for itself. I like it .... as good as their pitching IS it is not saving them from the doorstep of the tag of over paid under achievers.
I agree, the Sox look like a very mediocre road team (21-32?)
What I see compared to last year: they look older, more tired, and just don't seem as hungry as last year - look like they're just going through the motions.
the injuries are not helping either, but this goes with the the aging process.
Actually, with all they have been through, I'm surprised only 1-2 games out of first.
Hard to figure why the Red Sox are playing so poorly on the road. Seems the 7th inning comes and the bottom falls out with our middle relief pitching. The number of LOBs and RISP stranded is really difficult to understand. How can they play so well in Fenway and look like a bunch of AA ballplayers away??
The "could be" good news is that we play Seattle the next 3 games. If we can't beat Seattle at least 2 out of 3, I'd say there are serious problems with the team. I'm underimpressed with Lowrie at short...how the hell can you just stand there and take strike after strike?
I just don't get the road problem thing, what is different on the road other than the usual creature comforts, away from home, jeering fans, blah, blah. The game is the same, but the Sox seem to find a way to be a completely different team away from Fenway.
Gotta hand it to the Yankees, they are getting the key hits and pitching well...if we're not careful the paltry lead we have over them is gonna melt like snow in August.
BTW, I think it was Von that pointed out Manny would never go to the Yankees because of the grooming code King George has mandated against his players. Silly rule, but his team, his way. Could be Manny will go to the Mets as another poster noted.
The good news is Ortiz returns for the Yankees series Friday.
the Angels series made it clear where Boston's problems are:
-relief pitching. Pretty much nobody has been dependable this season with inherited runners. The Sox might as well run Dave McCarty out there (remember that, Sox fans?). This bullpen is not an October bullpen or even a "get you to October" bullpen
-clutch hitting. Face it, Manny is a good hitter and a great hitter when he is on a streak (like now), but he can be whittled down to almost nothing without Ortiz around. Bypass Manny and unless a few other guys are just not missing the ball (like Drew was but no longer is, the club needs some offensive Viagra. At the bottom of the order, the Red Sox of past years had guys who could generally hit their way out of a wet paper bag. No more. 7-8-9 on the Sox now looks like a National League lineup (i.e. "a pitcher's friend").
-no Ortiz. See above. Also, having Ortiz sets up the L-R-L thing that Francona prefers. Right now the Sox have three righties in a row (Manny, Lowell, Youkilis) in the middle of the order. Opposing teams can bring in right-handed specialists to deal with those guys. Add Ortiz, and the Sox have a batting order of L-R-L-R-L-R-R-S-S (assuming Lowrie is at SS) -- much more prepared for whatever the opposing manager throws at them.
-Ellsbury. I'm not a stats guy, but know what I have been seeing. He hasn't stolen a base for what, a month? Maybe he's 50% in his last 20 attempts? His hitting has to be .250 over the last month too. He doesn't get on and the Sox seem to score a couple runs less per game. The kid needs to hit, walk, get HBP or something for the Sox to get those couple extra crucial runs (to give the bullpen room for error...lots of it at that).
-I'm not sold that attitude is the problem, but I see signs that it is there. Crisp almost getting doubled up yesterday by not running out a popup, players not being aggressive on the basepaths (steal a base every now and then!), seeming lack of plate discipline when it matters, and there are more.
While they are really struggling on the road this year (swept 6 times I believe) the reality is that this year most teams are not playing well on the road. The Angels are the only team in the American League with a winning record away from their home park.
My main concern right now is the middle relief. A little consistency in this area would help in a lot of ways.
One thing I'd like to see Francona try when Ortiz comes back is putting Youkilis in the leadoff spot again. I know he's not a traditional leadoff guy, but he sees a ton of pitches, he can get on more than Ellsbury can right now, and maybe dropping Ellsbury to 7th might take some pressure off of him until he's back on track.
<< <i> the Angels series made it clear where Boston's problems are: >>
That could be true, but the Angels have the best record in baseball right now. The BoSox should have lost the series, but I'm surprised it went the way it did. Should be interesting late in the season.
Not having Ortiz in the lineup is just now starting to hurt, because Drew was doing his very best Ortiz impression for the last month or so. But Drew has cooled off, and other than Youk and maybe Manny, the team has no consistent offense.
Ellsbury is in a slump, but he's still basically a rookie. If he's going to leadoff though, he needs to at least get on base more. Varitek is essentially an automatic out lately, and Cora is basically Lugo without the speed. That bottom of the order (Varitek, Crisp, Cora etc.) is like raising the white flag to opposing teams.
Relief pitching up to Papelbon is also troublesome. Last year we had Okajima who was lights out. This year, Francona avoids him with runners in scoring position. They may need to trade for some middle relief help.
But most of all, the Angels look like the best team in the AL right now. Let's go out and beat up on the Mariners and Yankees this week, and hope Ortiz coming back Friday sparks the offense.
Sure seems like at least a couple teams in the AL own the Red Sox right now. It's so tough to repeat as champions these days. I can't see it happening for the Red Sox this season.
I'm not sure which team the Phillies will face in the upcoming World Series, but right now I don't think it will be the Red Sox.
<< <i>Barndog - I agree with everything you wrote.
One thing I'd like to see Francona try when Ortiz comes back is putting Youkilis in the leadoff spot again. I know he's not a traditional leadoff guy, but he sees a ton of pitches, he can get on more than Ellsbury can right now, and maybe dropping Ellsbury to 7th might take some pressure off of him until he's back on track.
We had better sweep the Mariners. >>
I hadn't thought of that...but I do remember how he thrived in that spot in the past. Let's call Tito and tell him to MAKE IT SO! Having Ellsbury in a 7-8-9 spot would at least give some minor threat rather than three easy outs
I am good at seeing the rain in a cloud and not the silver lining: WTF is up with just four runs against Seattle? This team needs to learn to hit the ball when it counts!
Not just you that saw that - as I watched the game last night, I couldn't believe all the missed opportunities to score. Good thing Lester was as good as he was. Lowrie had a decent game as well, hopefully he can lay claim to that position and start hitting.
I remember that during the Fox broadcast of the Angels/Sox game on Saturday they talked about why Francona left Lowrie in with the bases loaded when he could have pinch hit Casey. Of course, Lowrie struck out and the rally ended with a whimper. One of the Fox commentators actually made a good point though (I know, I can't believe I wrote that either) when he said that Lowrie needed to experience those types of at bats because he is going to see a lot of playing time with Lugo out.
Well, how cool was it that Lowrie came up with a bases loaded single last night to break the game open? I know he's not the second coming of Nomar or anything, but I'd be thrilled if he could keep anything close to his current numbers (.298 average and 9 RBI in just 57 AB). Anyway, I think this is one example of what makes Francona a good manager as it demonstrates that he is managing to win long term, not just the big games against great teams.
I remember that during the Fox broadcast of the Angels/Sox game on Saturday they talked about why Francona left Lowrie in with the bases loaded when he could have pinch hit Casey. Of course, Lowrie struck out and the rally ended with a whimper. One of the Fox commentators actually made a good point though (I know, I can't believe I wrote that either) when he said that Lowrie needed to experience those types of at bats because he is going to see a lot of playing time with Lugo out.
Well, how cool was it that Lowrie came up with a bases loaded single last night to break the game open? I know he's not the second coming of Nomar or anything, but I'd be thrilled if he could keep anything close to his current numbers (.298 average and 9 RBI in just 57 AB). Anyway, I think this is one example of what makes Francona a good manager as it demonstrates that he is managing to win long term, not just the big games against great teams. >>
Exactly! I think we should keep him in there and forget Lugo- We are not losing much and if Papi comes back strong he can more than make up for a weak spot in the lineup. Im also hearing that Drew will continue to bat #3? If its not broke dont fix it- Drew, Manny, Papi sounds great and I cant believe I just mentioned those three in the same sentence.
I heard the Fox analysts too, and had to grudgingly agree. I am sure glad it wasn't McCarver saying that. I don't think anyone would have thought of Drew/Manny/Papi as the big 3! The lack of runs on the road is disturbing. I thought I heard something about the Sox having one of the highest batting averages on the road? They must have the highest LOB total too. Hopefully Lowrie can step up and earn some playing time. He's got to be better than Cora and Lugo! The bullpen scares me. Will they make any changes? I don't see us getting deep in the playoffs at this rate.
Comments
were just too good.
The Red Sox will win now and in the future because of pitching and speed on defense. With or without Manny will not really matter IMO.
Just look at Arod and the Yankees. Good hitter and no pitching equals no success.
I think we say goodbye to Manny unless he wants less money. We could use a lot of his money to sign a top notch pitcher.
we could have won both years without Manny Ramirez. That is subject to debate because he did have some nice
hot streaks during those regular seasons. But I remember guys like JD Drew (early 2007) and Papi (2004) who carried
the club just as well as Manny did.
<< <i>Boston has $20M options on Manny for both 2009 and 2010. So, he can't get more (!) than that. He should retire in a Sox uniform, but it is possible that another younger player (Texiera?) could get a contract that could allow them to let Manny go. I certainly hope not. >>
I do believe the Sox are entertaining the idea of Texeira at first base and Youkilis converted to left field. If Manny can play left in Fenway, Youkilis sure as heck can play it better.
Anybody wanna list who they think will either be traded/gone next week, or those who won't be in a Red Sox uniform in 2009?
Ponder this...Manny grew up in Washington Heights, a short distance from King George Stadium. I suspect his ego will demand $20m or more, thus, begin to think of Manny in pinstripes, ala Clemens and Boggs before him. I think King George's minions would drool to get Manny and give him half the moon to get him. I'm pretty sure we have left field covered with the talent on hand. Manny's numbers are down and I don't think throwing a big chunk of money at him is gonna change anything with his performance or attitude. Pissing off the owner is not a good thing.
Beckett today, things should turn out better.
Good weekend to all.
And, do I have to remind you that Clemens and Boggs actually won WORLD SERIES in New York
And do I have to remind you that after all of this Sox Nation elitist bashing of the Yankees and how "horrible" they are .... just FIVE games seperates them
You guys are WAAAAAAAAAAAY over the top man
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Beckett today, and hopefully a little more offense.
The Yankees will have to pay Sexson only the prorated minimum of $390,000 from his $14 million salary with the Mariners. ( That is a piddly 150 grand) Seattle is eating the remainder of the nearly $6 million Sexson is owed for the season. Lets not compare peanuts like this to a guy who will command 20 million per year like Ramirez.
Lets be real and take the Sox blinders off for a second. ANYBODY who has had some degree of success in the bigs very recently is worth a gamble at 150,000 dollars.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> Beckett is spinning a GEM!!! >>
Until the 8th inning came along.
<< <i>
<< <i> Beckett is spinning a GEM!!! >>
Until the 8th inning came along.
seventh...seems a habit as of late to have one terrible inning.
Bosox1976
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
What I see compared to last year: they look older, more tired, and just don't seem as hungry as last year - look like they're just going through the motions.
the injuries are not helping either, but this goes with the the aging process.
Actually, with all they have been through, I'm surprised only 1-2 games out of first.
Should be a nice 3-way race from hear to the end.
The "could be" good news is that we play Seattle the next 3 games. If we can't beat Seattle at least 2 out of 3, I'd say there are serious problems with the team. I'm underimpressed with Lowrie at short...how the hell can you just stand there and take strike after strike?
I just don't get the road problem thing, what is different on the road other than the usual creature comforts, away from home, jeering fans, blah, blah. The game is the same, but the Sox seem to find a way to be a completely different team away from Fenway.
Gotta hand it to the Yankees, they are getting the key hits and pitching well...if we're not careful the paltry lead we have over them is gonna melt like snow in August.
BTW, I think it was Von that pointed out Manny would never go to the Yankees because of the grooming code King George has mandated against his players. Silly rule, but his team, his way. Could be Manny will go to the Mets as another poster noted.
The good news is Ortiz returns for the Yankees series Friday.
Keep the faith, things could be worse.
-relief pitching. Pretty much nobody has been dependable this season with inherited runners. The Sox might as well run Dave McCarty out there (remember that, Sox fans?). This bullpen is not an October bullpen or even a "get you to October" bullpen
-clutch hitting. Face it, Manny is a good hitter and a great hitter when he is on a streak (like now), but he can be whittled down to almost nothing without Ortiz around. Bypass Manny and unless a few other guys are just not missing the ball (like Drew was but no longer is, the club needs some offensive Viagra. At the bottom of the order, the Red Sox of past years had guys who could generally hit their way out of a wet paper bag. No more. 7-8-9 on the Sox now looks like a National League lineup (i.e. "a pitcher's friend").
-no Ortiz. See above. Also, having Ortiz sets up the L-R-L thing that Francona prefers. Right now the Sox have three righties in a row (Manny, Lowell, Youkilis) in the middle of the order. Opposing teams can bring in right-handed specialists to deal with those guys. Add Ortiz, and the Sox have a batting order of L-R-L-R-L-R-R-S-S (assuming Lowrie is at SS) -- much more prepared for whatever the opposing manager throws at them.
-Ellsbury. I'm not a stats guy, but know what I have been seeing. He hasn't stolen a base for what, a month? Maybe he's 50% in his last 20 attempts? His hitting has to be .250 over the last month too. He doesn't get on and the Sox seem to score a couple runs less per game. The kid needs to hit, walk, get HBP or something for the Sox to get those couple extra crucial runs (to give the bullpen room for error...lots of it at that).
-I'm not sold that attitude is the problem, but I see signs that it is there. Crisp almost getting doubled up yesterday by not running out a popup, players not being aggressive on the basepaths (steal a base every now and then!), seeming lack of plate discipline when it matters, and there are more.
My main concern right now is the middle relief. A little consistency in this area would help in a lot of ways.
One thing I'd like to see Francona try when Ortiz comes back is putting Youkilis in the leadoff spot again. I know he's not a traditional leadoff guy, but he sees a ton of pitches, he can get on more than Ellsbury can right now, and maybe dropping Ellsbury to 7th might take some pressure off of him until he's back on track.
We had better sweep the Mariners.
<< <i> the Angels series made it clear where Boston's problems are: >>
That could be true, but the Angels have the best record in baseball right now. The BoSox should have lost the series, but I'm surprised it went the way it did. Should be interesting late in the season.
Not having Ortiz in the lineup is just now starting to hurt, because Drew was doing his very best Ortiz impression for the last month or so. But Drew has cooled off, and other than Youk and maybe Manny, the team has no consistent offense.
Ellsbury is in a slump, but he's still basically a rookie. If he's going to leadoff though, he needs to at least get on base more. Varitek is essentially an automatic out lately, and Cora is basically Lugo without the speed. That bottom of the order (Varitek, Crisp, Cora etc.) is like raising the white flag to opposing teams.
Relief pitching up to Papelbon is also troublesome. Last year we had Okajima who was lights out. This year, Francona avoids him with runners in scoring position. They may need to trade for some middle relief help.
But most of all, the Angels look like the best team in the AL right now. Let's go out and beat up on the Mariners and Yankees this week, and hope Ortiz coming back Friday sparks the offense.
I'm not sure which team the Phillies will face in the upcoming World Series, but right now I don't think it will be the Red Sox.
<< <i>Barndog - I agree with everything you wrote.
One thing I'd like to see Francona try when Ortiz comes back is putting Youkilis in the leadoff spot again. I know he's not a traditional leadoff guy, but he sees a ton of pitches, he can get on more than Ellsbury can right now, and maybe dropping Ellsbury to 7th might take some pressure off of him until he's back on track.
We had better sweep the Mariners. >>
I hadn't thought of that...but I do remember how he thrived in that spot in the past. Let's call Tito and tell him to MAKE IT SO! Having Ellsbury in a 7-8-9 spot would at least give some minor threat rather than three easy outs
I remember that during the Fox broadcast of the Angels/Sox game on Saturday they talked about why Francona left Lowrie in with the bases loaded when he could have pinch hit Casey. Of course, Lowrie struck out and the rally ended with a whimper. One of the Fox commentators actually made a good point though (I know, I can't believe I wrote that either) when he said that Lowrie needed to experience those types of at bats because he is going to see a lot of playing time with Lugo out.
Well, how cool was it that Lowrie came up with a bases loaded single last night to break the game open? I know he's not the second coming of Nomar or anything, but I'd be thrilled if he could keep anything close to his current numbers (.298 average and 9 RBI in just 57 AB). Anyway, I think this is one example of what makes Francona a good manager as it demonstrates that he is managing to win long term, not just the big games against great teams.
<< <i>Speaking of Lowrie . . .
I remember that during the Fox broadcast of the Angels/Sox game on Saturday they talked about why Francona left Lowrie in with the bases loaded when he could have pinch hit Casey. Of course, Lowrie struck out and the rally ended with a whimper. One of the Fox commentators actually made a good point though (I know, I can't believe I wrote that either) when he said that Lowrie needed to experience those types of at bats because he is going to see a lot of playing time with Lugo out.
Well, how cool was it that Lowrie came up with a bases loaded single last night to break the game open? I know he's not the second coming of Nomar or anything, but I'd be thrilled if he could keep anything close to his current numbers (.298 average and 9 RBI in just 57 AB). Anyway, I think this is one example of what makes Francona a good manager as it demonstrates that he is managing to win long term, not just the big games against great teams. >>
Exactly! I think we should keep him in there and forget Lugo- We are not losing much and if Papi comes back strong he can more than make up for a weak spot in the lineup. Im also hearing that Drew will continue to bat #3? If its not broke dont fix it- Drew, Manny, Papi sounds great and I cant believe I just mentioned those three in the same sentence.
no? 1str round draft, AA All star, offensive player of the year, and ranked 5th propect in the minors? Doesnt sound too bad to me!
I heard the Fox analysts too, and had to grudgingly agree. I am sure glad it wasn't McCarver saying that.
I don't think anyone would have thought of Drew/Manny/Papi as the big 3!
The lack of runs on the road is disturbing. I thought I heard something about the Sox having one of the highest batting averages on the road? They must have the highest LOB total too.
Hopefully Lowrie can step up and earn some playing time. He's got to be better than Cora and Lugo!
The bullpen scares me. Will they make any changes? I don't see us getting deep in the playoffs at this rate.
Bob...
<< <i>Drew's got the right idea. How about we score some more freakin' runs? >>
...and then some
Let's see Johjima catch the knuckler
Dice-k aint too shabby
(enter Dice-k overpriced post by Softparade)