<< <i>Is anyone getting backorders filled yet on the $5 unc? >>
Halfstrike,
My MOH are in stock and reserved - cancel box is gone, CC has been hit and UPS just called and said they are holding a box for me at their service center (I have them do that as it is a few blocks away from work). So, I am thinking they have been shipped. >>
My order shipped though the tracking number doesn't work yet. I expect them to arrive tomorrow. The other box held at UPS was something else.
roof-like UHR 70s may do a little better but the bottom line is its game over around 4-5 grand unless the pops are real low like 10 coins in 70 grade in a well liked series.
As a ultramodern coin collector I concur through personal experience. I was buried in one ultramodern but never again. I can think of two coins that have sustained their high levels. It is the 2000 Cheerios Pattern Sac Collar. Also the Sac/Quarter Mules, though this is an error. I am sure their are others.
Are you saying that 2008-W and Proof Buffs, UHR, 2006-W Rev Proofs and likes all most likely hit the ceiling in "collector" component of their appreciation and now only fluctuate their "bullion" portion as price of gold fluctuates?
Do you dump them at that point and then try to discover another "gem" or just keep if you just love them regardless of the price?
<< <i>I ordered 2 each of the $5 Unc Army and MOH on Friday, 12/16. My order is in process and the cancel boxes are gone. I'm guessing that all who ordered before 5:00 p.m. Friday will receive coins. Perhaps the original runs were for 9,000 or 10,000 coins. >>
Quoted from Mint news posted on 12/21/11:
<< <i>These numbers should reflect all final orders placed through the scheduled conclusion of sales. It is possible that the US Mint may continue to update the figures slightly in the coming weeks to account for order cancellations and returns, but most likely there will not be any significant changes. >>
If the coin is a modern like the $50 2008 PR-70 buff and it has a price of 5 grand in a 70 holder (given that a high percentage of the issues can make 70) then the real term growth indexed to inflation on a percentage basis is more or less over. Period........
A coin that has a LOW pop like 10 and the coin is such that its very hard for the high grade pop to increase then it may pull past 5 grand and hold it. By and large moderns with high grade mintages between 2 and 10 thousand are done by 5 grand in real terms on a precentage basis.
Do you dump them at that point and then try to discover another "gem" or just keep if you just love them regardless of the price?
I try to self grade my 70s. I had done this with success with the UHR, 2008 W $25 Gold Buffalo, 2006 Reverse Proof, 2007 Platinum Anniversary Set and many more. This way you can enjoy them without the fear of a steep decline in price. Buying at $4K and $5K levels I feel is a trap you will most likely not get out of. Though sometimes I don't heed my own advice since I did buy a PCGS 25th Anniversary 70 Set for $2150.
<< <i>Do you dump them at that point and then try to discover another "gem" or just keep if you just love them regardless of the price?
I try to self grade my 70s. I had done this with success with the UHR, 2008 W $25 Gold Buffalo, 2006 Reverse Proof, 2007 Platinum Anniversary Set and many more. This way you can enjoy them without the fear of a steep decline in price. Buying at $4K and $5K levels I feel is a trap you will most likely not get out of. Though sometimes I don't heed my own advice since I did buy a PCGS 25th Anniversary 70 Set for $2150. >>
Shouldn't be a problem. I can easily imagine $2k for the S & RP within a year.
Anyone have last weeks Mint stats? NN has not updated.
Looking for the latest 11W silver eagle unc sales, last was 219,254.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
<< <i>No.....need bid asked price for a non FS set?? >>
Sorry was not paying attention. The set is worth about $5,000-$5,500 as my best guess right now. If you wish to sell call Modern Coin Mart and Mitch and get bids on it.
I have noticed that 70 grade 2008w mint state platinum eagles are getting thin in the market place. It does not take much for a 2200 mintage set to get thin especially given that some of the quarters and halves were dumped to outfits like Kitco and beaten like common bullion in 2009 when the weekly sales report had very bad data in it.
<< I can easily imagine $2k for the S & RP within a year. >>
For each or both? With the 1995-W (mintage 30k) at $2750 and the 2006-P reverse proof (mintage 250k) at $215, I think the 2011-P and 2011-S (mintage 100k) would be fairly valued at about $700 each.
RP & P at $1000 each, after the flood, seems fair. The 2006 has come down because it is no longer the default key. I think collectors will sometimes see a series coin as prohibitive (95-w) and leave a hole. However, there'd be too many holes without the RP & S. Another issue with these two is the "lesson learned" from the 95w. From the outset, most of us realized the 2011s were gonna be a homerun, and these things got hoarded--leaving fewer individuals who had them. I have several dozen sets (and won't be selling the RP, S, or bullion), and know many others who have MANY. So, how many are actually available to the collectors who want them?
JMO: if you didn't get your set from the mint or buy one on eBay last week, you missed the bottom. The ASE Set will be the best numismatic investment over the next year.
<< <i><< I can easily imagine $2k for the S & RP within a year. >>
For each or both? With the 1995-W (mintage 30k) at $2750 and the 2006-P reverse proof (mintage 250k) at $215, I think the 2011-P and 2011-S (mintage 100k) would be fairly valued at about $700 each. >>
Overdate--Guess you were talking 69s...sure, $700 seems fair but may take six months to get there.
With all due respect: I do not feel the 700 for a 69, except if you are talking about the S and RP together. This has all become a little too rah rah.
As has been said, ungraded/picked over coins will basically be 69 and I daresay that is the average. Also, I think folks on these boards IMO try to blow up actual collector numbers (as opposed to flipper numbers!). I won't say the obvious which is that a lot is self-serving.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>With all due respect: I do not feel the 700 for a 69, except if you are talking about the S and RP together. This has all become a little too rah rah.
As has been said, ungraded/picked over coins will basically be 69 and I daresay that is the average. Also, I think folks on these boards IMO try to blow up actual collector numbers (as opposed to flipper numbers!). I won't say the obvious which is that a lot is self-serving. >>
OK then what is fair market price in your view for the MS-63 1880cc, 1881cc and 1885cc dollars? MS-63 is the middle of the mint state grading curve and each of the coins were issued in slabs to the public by the Feds in the 100,000-150,000 population range. So if these CC dollars that are not the keys to the CC subset and not anything close to kings of the larger Morgan set are worth $250 to $500 each where does that put an 11S that rules a 300,000,000 silver dollar population with and Iron hand?
<< Overdate--Guess you were talking 69s...sure, $700 seems fair but may take six months to get there. >>
Yes, 69s or raw. I think the 2011-P reverse proof at around $275 is one of the best values out there at the moment. I recall that the 1995-W proof was also selling at around $275 shortly after that year's gold/silver 5-coin proof sets were issued at $999. Wish I had stocked up!
<< <i>With all due respect: I do not feel the 700 for a 69, except if you are talking about the S and RP together. This has all become a little too rah rah.
As has been said, ungraded/picked over coins will basically be 69 and I daresay that is the average. Also, I think folks on these boards IMO try to blow up actual collector numbers (as opposed to flipper numbers!). I won't say the obvious which is that a lot is self-serving. >>
I agree that the actual ASE collector numbers have been blown up. Know one knows what it is, but some people speculate 800,000 when 100,000 may well be to high.
Also, high prices ignores the fact that previous to the release of these two coins the 95w and 06RP didn't have these new ones to complete for collectors dollars. The 95w and 06RP should flatline for a few years, while the new ones will settle in lower than basic interpolation between the existing prices for the 95w and 06RP would indicate.
The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John >>
Just curious...what is your opinion on the S or Rev Proof coin. Both are key coins nonetheless but do you see a higher increase in the future for the S or the Reverse Proof coin. Basically if you were to load up on one of the coins what would it be????
<< <i>The wild card here, that hasn't been brought up in awhile, is that the economy stinks AND it's Christmas! Talk about competing for the ASE dollars... >>
And you got two horses that could win the race...will it be San Franciscan or will it be Mrs Reverse Proof?
<< <i>The wild card here, that hasn't been brought up in awhile, is that the economy stinks AND it's Christmas! Talk about competing for the ASE dollars... >>
And you got two horses that could win the race...will it be San Franciscan or will it be Mrs Reverse Proof? >>
If it's the RP, keep an eye on the 2006 RP in PCGS 70 as it will be riding along on its coattails.
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely. >>
It's worth noting that the online scramble for the 25th Anniversary set did not occur for the 2006 20th Anniversary Set or the 1995 gold/silver proof set. The 20th Anniversary Set took weeks to sell out (due to the 10-set limitation) and the 1995 set failed to sell out (30k sold out of 45k available). So neither of these other two situations created a flood of supply driven by the desire or need to flip.
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John >>
Just curious...what is your opinion on the S or Rev Proof coin. Both are key coins nonetheless but do you see a higher increase in the future for the S or the Reverse Proof coin. Basically if you were to load up on one of the coins what would it be???? >>
WONDERFUL coins to own, and my money is where my mouth is on these..... My gut says the "S" will be top gun but you can't underestmate the cool factor of the reverse proof. As for "if" I was to load up.... there is no "if"....... it's done, and I'm not a seller of the vast majority at ANYWHERE near current levels.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John >>
Just curious...what is your opinion on the S or Rev Proof coin. Both are key coins nonetheless but do you see a higher increase in the future for the S or the Reverse Proof coin. Basically if you were to load up on one of the coins what would it be???? >>
WONDERFUL coins to own, and my money is where my mouth is on these..... My gut says the "S" will be top gun but you can't underestmate the cool factor of the reverse proof. As for "if" I was to load up.... there is no "if"....... it's done, and I'm not a seller of the vast majority at ANYWHERE near current levels.
John >>
Hi John-
Thanks, as always for your comments.
Just curuios, why the S as opposed to the RP? I like the S as well because it is unique, however it does not look nearly as cool as the RP as you note.
It's a tough call.... I think Eric agrees the "S" is the "King" of the set and not sure where Mitch weighs in. If nothing else the "S" is the first non proof to bear the "S" mintmark, the reverse proof is the second to come along and fourth across all eagles.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I'm going to switch gears here for a little bit. As far as the sub 10,000 mintage on the 2 unc. $5 coins, (Army and MOH) what is the analysis/outlook on these? Will they eventually double in value vs. mint issue price and if so how long do you think it will take to get there? 1 year? 2 years? Or maybe longer? The $5 gold commem. are kinda funny to me. On one hand you have the unc. FDR at 11,894 mintage bringing $1500 and on the other hand you have the unc. Smithson. coin at 9068 mintage bringing in half of the FDR. I don't know the answers but it sure is a fun ride.
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
<< <i>It's a tough call.... I think Eric agrees the "S" is the "King" of the set and not sure where Mitch weighs in. If nothing else the "S" is the first non proof to bear the "S" mintmark, the reverse proof is the second to come along and fourth across all eagles. >>
I like the 2011-P reverse proof better, and not just because of its looks. It is a one-year Silver Eagle type coin (reverse of 2008 onward) and by far the lowest mintage one (100k), and likely to remain that way.
I dont know if the RP or the 11s will be more expensive in the out years. I can say that the 11RP is not even close to being the rarest proof as the 95 W has it beat badly.
Die variety rarity has a long history of being nowhere close to as strong a form of product differentiation as mint marks are so the 11s has a commanding lead over all the other roughly 300 million mint state silver eagles in its set. I have more faith in the key to a 300 million coin set than the semi key to a sub 20 million coin set. The reverse proofs are much better looking and there are many hard core proof silver eagle collectors so maybe the RP will be stronger we will just have to see over time.
I am out buying 11s dollars when I find someone who wants to flip/dump these good coins too cheap. Frankly I think its good policy for everyone who can afford them to buy a 20 coin roll of 2011s dollars, throw them in the back of the safe and forget you own them until at least 2016.
"It's a tough call.... I think Eric agrees the "S" is the "King" of the set and not sure where Mitch weighs in. If nothing else the "S" is the first non proof to bear the "S" mintmark, the reverse proof is the second to come along and fourth across all eagles. John"
Let's see ... I dated a brunette for many years in my distant past, but then courted and married a blonde for the past nearly 30 years now. So, I would clearly have to say blondes. Does answer the question?
Hey, on a related note ... can I give a shout out to the 2008-W $100 Proof Platinum with its amazingly low mintage of 4,769!!! We are going back and forth on which 100,000 silver eagle mintage coin is better while 3 years later the KING of the $100 Proof platinum series (the only proof series ever in Mint history with a $100 denomination coin) with a mintage of roughly 15% of the 95w silver eagle still gets very little attention. Do you have any idea what it would take right now to build just a 100 coin position in this coin if someone wanted to do that... could it even be acccomplished during the entire upcoming 2012 year without someone seriously raising the bids on the coin in the hopes of picking up a small quantity of the coins faster? Ditto on the 2004-W $100 proof.
The tie in .... a coin like the 2008-W $100 Platinum proof can not be "promoted" all that well, because it is simply too darn scarce to acquire product to continue to promote. The 2011-P & 2011-S coins with their 100,000 mintages are not all that "scarce" (relative to many other modern coins out there), but they are the perfect coins to "promote" as there are plenty of them out there to keep buying once the "promotion" is underway and in full swing. And, as Eric (and probably John) will tell you ... it's all about the 'sizzle" (promotion) when it comes to which moderns are likely to do great in the short/middle term (and sometimes even the long-term). With your grandma even wanting a 25th anniv silver set... think of the "promotable potential" of the 25th Anniv. set (copywritten here)!
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>It's a tough call.... I think Eric agrees the "S" is the "King" of the set and not sure where Mitch weighs in. If nothing else the "S" is the first non proof to bear the "S" mintmark, the reverse proof is the second to come along and fourth across all eagles.
1. The 300 million uncirculated silver eagles are mostly in non-numismatic channels, bought by investors without regard to date. (There are likely hundreds of thousands of 1996 bullion SE's being held by people who have no idea that it is a premium date.) No demand for the 11-S here.
2. IMO, most casual collectors of silver eagles are just acquiring one of each date for their albums. There is likely a much higher percentage of silver eagle "date-only" collectors than is the case for Morgan or Peace dollars. No demand for the 11-S here.
3. By contrast, the 20 million proof silver eagles are all in numismatic channels. They were all purchased from the Mint at considerable premiums to melt.
4. Current demand for proof silver eagles from the Mint appears to be in the high six figures per year. The 100K mintage of the 2011-P is a small fraction of this quantity.
5. The 2011-P reverse proof is a one-year type coin, with a distinct reverse from the 2006-P. Silver eagle type collectors will need the 2011-P. The 2011-S is not a one-year type coin.
Summing up, I think the 2011-S is a great coin, but I think the 2011-P reverse proof is even greater.
I have another question. It looks as if the '11-W $50 unc. gold mintage is @ 7944. If this holds up, will this become the new key for the entire series? This will de-throne the '08-W $10, and, will the premium on this coin drop like the ticket sales for a William Shatner movie at a midnight dollar theater? Sorry I couldn't resist.
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
Why can't the Mint continue to sell this coin into 2012 until it sells out all the coins it produced in 2011? Correct me if I am wrong, but when the Mint sold out around 6,000 units of this particular coin, they ran a second production run at that point ... right? So, did they produce a full 6,000 additional coins on that second production run of only say 3,000 or 4,000 extra, or?? Anyone know?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
What about the 2011 Gold Buffalo Proof. Only 22K sold. Wasn't the total for the 2008W Buffalo Gold Proof at around 20K? I wonder if there is some potential for this coin.
<<Also, there is at least 10 dates of AGE proof 1 ouncers that have mintages between 25 and 35 thousand and don't carry any premiums.>> That could be good or bad depending on if you're buying or selling. Does anyone here think that with the incredibly low mintage of the FS series, that someday (like a couple hundred years from now) they will be thought of as collectable as say, the Charlotte and Dahlonega series?
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
Does anybody remember if there has ever been a time that AGE or even the Buffalo Gold coin sales extended past the end of their respective years that they were minted? I know that the American Silver Eagles have but not to sure that the gold coins have.
I have another question. It looks as if the '11-W $50 unc. gold mintage is @ 7944. If this holds up, will this become the new key for the entire series? Answer: Likely to end up the key to the $50 gold eagle series.
This will de-throne the '08-W $10, Answer: Not in its set.
and, will the premium on this coin drop like the ticket sales for a William Shatner movie at a midnight dollar theater? Answer: Not likely because each series has its own keys. The one once coins are so expensive I don’t know many people that collect them or are thinking about doing so.
Why can't the Mint continue to sell this coin into 2012 until it sells out all the coins it produced in 2011? Answer They can until the 2012W comes out.
Correct me if I am wrong, but when the Mint sold out around 6,000 units of this particular coin, they ran a second production run at that point ... right? So, did they produce a full 6,000 additional coins on that second production run of only say 3,000 or 4,000 extra, or?? Anyone know Answer: Don’t know
What about the 2011 Gold Buffalo Proof. Only 22K sold. Wasn't the total for the 2008W Buffalo Gold Proof at around 20K? Answer 18,000
I wonder if there is some potential for this coin. Answer Maybe as long as 2013-2015 does not end up in the same mintage range.
Does anybody remember if there has ever been a time that AGE or even the Buffalo Gold coin sales extended past the end of their respective years that they were minted? Answer: Plenty, they sell until the new coin comes out or they run out of inventory from the pervious year.
Answer: Yes the first hags as a group may do alright over time.
<< <i>I have another question. It looks as if the '11-W $50 unc. gold mintage is @ 7944. If this holds up, will this become the new key for the entire series? This will de-throne the '08-W $10, and, will the premium on this coin drop like the ticket sales for a William Shatner movie at a midnight dollar theater? Sorry I couldn't resist. >>
I posted my opinion on the 11W age on another board yesterday:
As for the 2011W eagle, I think it all depends on where the coin ends. The mint will continue to sale the coin as long as they have enough in inventory until the 2012W comes out (assuming we'll get a 2012W). Personally I hope the coin goes to backorder sometime in January so we'll have a new all time low for the AGE series. Key mintage numbers for the coin to stay below: 8,883 (2008-W $10 1/4oz burnished eagle) -- If the 2011W stays below this to become the lowest age ever I bet it jumps significantly in short order. 9,074 (2008-W $50 burnished buffalo) -- If the coin comes in under this number it will be the lowest $50 gold piece made. 10,000 -- IMO it's important that the coin come in under 10K if it's going to have a chance at growth above and beyond spot price. Simply put, very few collectors chase 1oz gold so if the coin breaks this level I don't think it will ever command much of a premium. The best example of this can be found in the 2008W $50 age. It had a mintage of 11,908 and is currently the lowest mintage of the 1oz age's, but it commands little to no premium on the secondary market.
There may be a lot of returns of the 2011 $50 AGE. These may not be reflected in the sales numbers. I have heard a lot of "quality" or lack there of of this particular issue.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Is anyone getting backorders filled yet on the $5 unc? >>
Halfstrike,
My MOH are in stock and reserved - cancel box is gone, CC has been hit and UPS just called and said they are holding a box for me at their service center (I have them do that as it is a few blocks away from work). So, I am thinking they have been shipped. >>
My order shipped though the tracking number doesn't work yet. I expect them to arrive tomorrow. The other box held at UPS was something else.
When I was selling the Marine dollars (sold 500+) I pushed them as gifts for Christmas, Fathers day etc.
There are 21 million veterans.................
<< <i>I'm really thinking of potential gifts for dad and grandpa.
When I was selling the Marine dollars (sold 500+) I pushed them as gifts for Christmas, Fathers day etc.
There are 21 million veterans................. >>
Don't forget Veteran's day!!!!!
As a ultramodern coin collector I concur through personal experience. I was buried in one ultramodern but never again. I can think of two coins that have sustained their high levels. It is the 2000 Cheerios Pattern Sac Collar. Also the Sac/Quarter Mules, though this is an error. I am sure their are others.
Box of 20
Are you saying that 2008-W and Proof Buffs, UHR, 2006-W Rev Proofs and likes all most likely hit the ceiling in "collector" component of their appreciation and now only fluctuate their "bullion" portion as price of gold fluctuates?
Do you dump them at that point and then try to discover another "gem" or just keep if you just love them regardless of the price?
<< <i>I ordered 2 each of the $5 Unc Army and MOH on Friday, 12/16. My order is in process and the cancel boxes are gone. I'm guessing that all who ordered before 5:00 p.m. Friday will receive coins. Perhaps the original runs were for 9,000 or 10,000 coins. >>
Quoted from Mint news posted on 12/21/11:
<< <i>These numbers should reflect all final orders placed through the scheduled conclusion of sales. It is possible that the US Mint may continue to update the figures slightly in the coming weeks to account for order cancellations and returns, but most likely there will not be any significant changes. >>
U.S. Army Commemorative Coins
.....................Proof ...Uncirculated ....Total
$5 Gold Coin...17,173 .... 8,062 .......25,235
Silver Dollar...119,829.... 43,517..... 163,346
Half Dollar......68,349 .....39,461 ...107,810
Medal of Honor Commemorative Coins
.......................Proof ........Uncirculated....... Total
$5 Gold Coin...18,012 ..........8,251 ..............26,263
Silver Dollar,,,,112,850 ........44,769 ............157,619
A coin that has a LOW pop like 10 and the coin is such that its very hard for the high grade pop to increase then it may pull past 5 grand and hold it. By and large moderns with high grade mintages between 2 and 10 thousand are done by 5 grand in real terms on a precentage basis.
<< <i>Anyone got a feel for current bid/asked on 4 coin PCGS non FS MS70 2008-W burnished platinum set?? >>
..........................................................................
Anyone??
Eric
I try to self grade my 70s. I had done this with success with the UHR, 2008 W $25 Gold Buffalo, 2006 Reverse Proof, 2007 Platinum Anniversary Set and many more. This way you can enjoy them without the fear of a steep decline in price. Buying at $4K and $5K levels I feel is a trap you will most likely not get out of. Though sometimes I don't heed my own advice since I did buy a PCGS 25th Anniversary 70 Set for $2150.
Box of 20
<< <i>Do you dump them at that point and then try to discover another "gem" or just keep if you just love them regardless of the price?
I try to self grade my 70s. I had done this with success with the UHR, 2008 W $25 Gold Buffalo, 2006 Reverse Proof, 2007 Platinum Anniversary Set and many more. This way you can enjoy them without the fear of a steep decline in price. Buying at $4K and $5K levels I feel is a trap you will most likely not get out of. Though sometimes I don't heed my own advice since I did buy a PCGS 25th Anniversary 70 Set for $2150. >>
Shouldn't be a problem. I can easily imagine $2k for the S & RP within a year.
Looking for the latest 11W silver eagle unc sales, last was 219,254.
<< <i>Anyone have last weeks Mint stats? NN has not updated.
Looking for the latest 11W silver eagle unc sales, last was 219,254. >>
Latest Mint stats
<< <i>No.....need bid asked price for a non FS set?? >>
Sorry was not paying attention. The set is worth about $5,000-$5,500 as my best guess right now. If you wish to sell call Modern Coin Mart and Mitch and get bids on it.
I have noticed that 70 grade 2008w mint state platinum eagles are getting thin in the market place. It does not take much for a 2200 mintage set to get thin especially given that some of the quarters and halves were dumped to outfits like Kitco and beaten like common bullion in 2009 when the weekly sales report had very bad data in it.
Eric
For each or both? With the 1995-W (mintage 30k) at $2750 and the 2006-P reverse proof (mintage 250k) at $215, I think the 2011-P and 2011-S (mintage 100k) would be fairly valued at about $700 each.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
JMO: if you didn't get your set from the mint or buy one on eBay last week, you missed the bottom. The ASE Set will be the best numismatic investment over the next year.
<< <i><< I can easily imagine $2k for the S & RP within a year. >>
For each or both? With the 1995-W (mintage 30k) at $2750 and the 2006-P reverse proof (mintage 250k) at $215, I think the 2011-P and 2011-S (mintage 100k) would be fairly valued at about $700 each. >>
Overdate--Guess you were talking 69s...sure, $700 seems fair but may take six months to get there.
This has all become a little too rah rah.
As has been said, ungraded/picked over coins will basically be 69 and I daresay that is the average.
Also, I think folks on these boards IMO try to blow up actual collector numbers (as opposed to flipper numbers!).
I won't say the obvious which is that a lot is self-serving.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>With all due respect: I do not feel the 700 for a 69, except if you are talking about the S and RP together.
This has all become a little too rah rah.
As has been said, ungraded/picked over coins will basically be 69 and I daresay that is the average.
Also, I think folks on these boards IMO try to blow up actual collector numbers (as opposed to flipper numbers!).
I won't say the obvious which is that a lot is self-serving. >>
OK then what is fair market price in your view for the MS-63 1880cc, 1881cc and 1885cc dollars? MS-63 is the middle of the mint state grading curve and each of the coins were issued in slabs to the public by the Feds in the 100,000-150,000 population range. So if these CC dollars that are not the keys to the CC subset and not anything close to kings of the larger Morgan set are worth $250 to $500 each where does that put an 11S that rules a 300,000,000 silver dollar population with and Iron hand?
Yes, 69s or raw. I think the 2011-P reverse proof at around $275 is one of the best values out there at the moment. I recall that the 1995-W proof was also selling at around $275 shortly after that year's gold/silver 5-coin proof sets were issued at $999. Wish I had stocked up!
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<< <i>In the Silver eagle price guide the 95W Jumped 10K.
Not surprising, since the 70 is a pop 1 and has been for a while.
<< <i>With all due respect: I do not feel the 700 for a 69, except if you are talking about the S and RP together.
This has all become a little too rah rah.
As has been said, ungraded/picked over coins will basically be 69 and I daresay that is the average.
Also, I think folks on these boards IMO try to blow up actual collector numbers (as opposed to flipper numbers!).
I won't say the obvious which is that a lot is self-serving. >>
I agree that the actual ASE collector numbers have been blown up. Know one knows what it is, but some people speculate 800,000 when 100,000 may well be to high.
Also, high prices ignores the fact that previous to the release of these two coins the 95w and 06RP didn't have these new ones to complete for collectors dollars. The 95w and 06RP should flatline for a few years, while the new ones will settle in lower than basic interpolation between the existing prices for the 95w and 06RP would indicate.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
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<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John >>
Just curious...what is your opinion on the S or Rev Proof coin. Both are key coins nonetheless but do you see a higher increase in the future for the S or the Reverse Proof coin. Basically if you were to load up on one of the coins what would it be????
<< <i>The wild card here, that hasn't been brought up in awhile, is that the economy stinks AND it's Christmas! Talk about competing for the ASE dollars... >>
And you got two horses that could win the race...will it be San Franciscan or will it be Mrs Reverse Proof?
<< <i>
<< <i>The wild card here, that hasn't been brought up in awhile, is that the economy stinks AND it's Christmas! Talk about competing for the ASE dollars... >>
And you got two horses that could win the race...will it be San Franciscan or will it be Mrs Reverse Proof? >>
If it's the RP, keep an eye on the 2006 RP in PCGS 70 as it will be riding along on its coattails.
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely. >>
It's worth noting that the online scramble for the 25th Anniversary set did not occur for the 2006 20th Anniversary Set or the 1995 gold/silver proof set. The 20th Anniversary Set took weeks to sell out (due to the 10-set limitation) and the 1995 set failed to sell out (30k sold out of 45k available). So neither of these other two situations created a flood of supply driven by the desire or need to flip.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John >>
Just curious...what is your opinion on the S or Rev Proof coin. Both are key coins nonetheless but do you see a higher increase in the future for the S or the Reverse Proof coin. Basically if you were to load up on one of the coins what would it be???? >>
WONDERFUL coins to own, and my money is where my mouth is on these.....
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The downward pricing pressure, like the supply, came on like an avalanche because of those that needed or simply chose to take immediate profits. That's pretty much over. In our case, it's a business so in general we will always be buying and selling according to supply on hand and current demand. This "opportunity" was no secret. Grandma was online buying to flip. What I see now is that the base from which to rebound has already been established and from here a slow and steady climb is very, very, likely.
John >>
Just curious...what is your opinion on the S or Rev Proof coin. Both are key coins nonetheless but do you see a higher increase in the future for the S or the Reverse Proof coin. Basically if you were to load up on one of the coins what would it be???? >>
WONDERFUL coins to own, and my money is where my mouth is on these.....
John >>
Hi John-
Thanks, as always for your comments.
Just curuios, why the S as opposed to the RP? I like the S as well because it is unique, however it does not look nearly as cool as the RP as you note.
Merry Christmas,
R-
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>It's a tough call.... I think Eric agrees the "S" is the "King" of the set and not sure where Mitch weighs in. If nothing else the "S" is the first non proof to bear the "S" mintmark, the reverse proof is the second to come along and fourth across all eagles. >>
I like the 2011-P reverse proof better, and not just because of its looks. It is a one-year Silver Eagle type coin (reverse of 2008 onward) and by far the lowest mintage one (100k), and likely to remain that way.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Die variety rarity has a long history of being nowhere close to as strong a form of product differentiation as mint marks are so the 11s has a commanding lead over all the other roughly 300 million mint state silver eagles in its set. I have more faith in the key to a 300 million coin set than the semi key to a sub 20 million coin set. The reverse proofs are much better looking and there are many hard core proof silver eagle collectors so maybe the RP will be stronger we will just have to see over time.
I am out buying 11s dollars when I find someone who wants to flip/dump these good coins too cheap. Frankly I think its good policy for everyone who can afford them to buy a 20 coin roll of 2011s dollars, throw them in the back of the safe and forget you own them until at least 2016.
Eric
Let's see ... I dated a brunette for many years in my distant past, but then courted and married a blonde for the past nearly 30 years now. So, I would clearly have to say blondes. Does answer the question?
Hey, on a related note ... can I give a shout out to the 2008-W $100 Proof Platinum with its amazingly low mintage of 4,769!!! We are going back and forth on which 100,000 silver eagle mintage coin is better while 3 years later the KING of the $100 Proof platinum series (the only proof series ever in Mint history with a $100 denomination coin) with a mintage of roughly 15% of the 95w silver eagle still gets very little attention. Do you have any idea what it would take right now to build just a 100 coin position in this coin if someone wanted to do that... could it even be acccomplished during the entire upcoming 2012 year without someone seriously raising the bids on the coin in the hopes of picking up a small quantity of the coins faster? Ditto on the 2004-W $100 proof.
The tie in .... a coin like the 2008-W $100 Platinum proof can not be "promoted" all that well, because it is simply too darn scarce to acquire product to continue to promote. The 2011-P & 2011-S coins with their 100,000 mintages are not all that "scarce" (relative to many other modern coins out there), but they are the perfect coins to "promote" as there are plenty of them out there to keep buying once the "promotion" is underway and in full swing. And, as Eric (and probably John) will tell you ... it's all about the 'sizzle" (promotion) when it comes to which moderns are likely to do great in the short/middle term (and sometimes even the long-term). With your grandma even wanting a 25th anniv silver set... think of the "promotable potential" of the 25th Anniv. set (copywritten here)!
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
<< <i>It's a tough call.... I think Eric agrees the "S" is the "King" of the set and not sure where Mitch weighs in. If nothing else the "S" is the first non proof to bear the "S" mintmark, the reverse proof is the second to come along and fourth across all eagles.
John >>
And....
1. The 300 million uncirculated silver eagles are mostly in non-numismatic channels, bought by investors without regard to date. (There are likely hundreds of thousands of 1996 bullion SE's being held by people who have no idea that it is a premium date.) No demand for the 11-S here.
2. IMO, most casual collectors of silver eagles are just acquiring one of each date for their albums. There is likely a much higher percentage of silver eagle "date-only" collectors than is the case for Morgan or Peace dollars. No demand for the 11-S here.
3. By contrast, the 20 million proof silver eagles are all in numismatic channels. They were all purchased from the Mint at considerable premiums to melt.
4. Current demand for proof silver eagles from the Mint appears to be in the high six figures per year. The 100K mintage of the 2011-P is a small fraction of this quantity.
5. The 2011-P reverse proof is a one-year type coin, with a distinct reverse from the 2006-P. Silver eagle type collectors will need the 2011-P. The 2011-S is not a one-year type coin.
Summing up, I think the 2011-S is a great coin, but I think the 2011-P reverse proof is even greater.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Why can't the Mint continue to sell this coin into 2012 until it sells out all the coins it produced in 2011? Correct me if I am wrong, but when the Mint sold out around 6,000 units of this particular coin, they ran a second production run at that point ... right? So, did they produce a full 6,000 additional coins on that second production run of only say 3,000 or 4,000 extra, or?? Anyone know?
Wondercoin
Box of 20
Also, there is at least 10 dates of AGE proof 1 ouncers that have mintages between 25 and 35 thousand and don't carry any premiums.
<<Also, there is at least 10 dates of AGE proof 1 ouncers that have mintages between 25 and 35 thousand and don't carry any premiums.>> That could be good or bad depending on if you're buying or selling. Does anyone here think that with the incredibly low mintage of the FS series, that someday (like a couple hundred years from now) they will be thought of as collectable as say, the Charlotte and Dahlonega series?
This will de-throne the '08-W $10, Answer: Not in its set.
and, will the premium on this coin drop like the ticket sales for a William Shatner movie at a midnight dollar theater? Answer: Not likely because each series has its own keys. The one once coins are so expensive I don’t know many people that collect them or are thinking about doing so.
Why can't the Mint continue to sell this coin into 2012 until it sells out all the coins it produced in 2011? Answer They can until the 2012W comes out.
Correct me if I am wrong, but when the Mint sold out around 6,000 units of this particular coin, they ran a second production run at that point ... right? So, did they produce a full 6,000 additional coins on that second production run of only say 3,000 or 4,000 extra, or?? Anyone know Answer: Don’t know
What about the 2011 Gold Buffalo Proof. Only 22K sold. Wasn't the total for the 2008W Buffalo Gold Proof at around 20K? Answer 18,000
I wonder if there is some potential for this coin. Answer Maybe as long as 2013-2015 does not end up in the same mintage range.
Does anybody remember if there has ever been a time that AGE or even the Buffalo Gold coin sales extended past the end of their respective years that they were minted? Answer: Plenty, they sell until the new coin comes out or they run out of inventory from the pervious year.
Answer: Yes the first hags as a group may do alright over time.
<< <i>I have another question. It looks as if the '11-W $50 unc. gold mintage is @ 7944. If this holds up, will this become the new key for the entire series? This will de-throne the '08-W $10, and, will the premium on this coin drop like the ticket sales for a William Shatner movie at a midnight dollar theater? Sorry I couldn't resist.
I posted my opinion on the 11W age on another board yesterday:
As for the 2011W eagle, I think it all depends on where the coin ends. The mint will continue to sale the coin as long as they have enough in inventory until the 2012W comes out (assuming we'll get a 2012W). Personally I hope the coin goes to backorder sometime in January so we'll have a new all time low for the AGE series. Key mintage numbers for the coin to stay below:
8,883 (2008-W $10 1/4oz burnished eagle) -- If the 2011W stays below this to become the lowest age ever I bet it jumps significantly in short order.
9,074 (2008-W $50 burnished buffalo) -- If the coin comes in under this number it will be the lowest $50 gold piece made.
10,000 -- IMO it's important that the coin come in under 10K if it's going to have a chance at growth above and beyond spot price. Simply put, very few collectors chase 1oz gold so if the coin breaks this level I don't think it will ever command much of a premium. The best example of this can be found in the 2008W $50 age. It had a mintage of 11,908 and is currently the lowest mintage of the 1oz age's, but it commands little to no premium on the secondary market.
Oh and 9900!