<< <i>Just got my MOH MS Gold Commem. Sent it back for an exchange. Had a nasty blotch on the obverse. Hope these are all not the rejects they are shipping now. Almost hope they do a second minting of these to get a better one. Proof version should be here tomorrow. That is the problem ordering these so late in the year. >>
Hi pf70- I was just logging on to post a note similar to yours.
I just received my MOH and Army Uncs. I placed two orders of one of each. I opened one.
Both - with the MOH obverse being the worse - have numerous "shiny" spots relative to the more burnished, non-reflective finish in several areas. When I turn the coin at various angles to the light these spots are very easy to see.
Quite disappointing. Both are going back for exchange. I'll be ticked if they go back and then the never come up again. I think that this is unlikely but who knows. I should have gone to The Mint or Union Station w/a loupe instead of this game.
How have everyone else's looked?
R-
Edited: Just opened box number two: The Army is totally flawless. Lucked out with this one. Literally perfect.
The MOH sucks. LOTS of shiny areas all over the female figure and shield. Back it goes.
"The United States Mint has suspended sales of commemorative gold coins for re-pricing.
Due to the current market volatility, we will be placing these coins on a “pricing grid” similar to the structure we use to price America Eagle, American Buffalo and First Spouse gold coins.
A new grid specific to these coins is being developed and will be posted when complete."
It will be interesting when the sales numbers come out on these. Any guesses how much they increased? Do you think everyone concentrated on the UNC version and ignored the PR version? My guess would be affirmative.
The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out.
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
???? >>
It's 9:30am Alaska time, which means I haven't had my second cup of coffee, and thus, it's too early for riddles.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
???? >>
Yeah...& don't forget planet X...circling behind the sun and all those aliens on ice in area 51.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Both - with the MOH obverse being the worse - have numerous "shiny" spots relative to the more burnished, non-reflective finish in several areas. When I turn the coin at various angles to the light these spots are very easy to see. >>
Maybe you can get it slabbed "Light Finish Shiny Spots."
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
???? >>
It's 9:30am Alaska time, which means I haven't had my second cup of coffee, and thus, it's too early for riddles. >>
You live in Alaska PF? Or do you just get your coffee from Eskimos.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
You are either over 70 years old or a fan of Lyndon LaRoushe.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
You are either over 70 years old or a fan of Lyndon LaRoushe. >>
Haha!
Yup, live in Alaska...where it's already fall....My coffee comes from the rainforest....has a long way to go between there and my French press.
Hey US Mint, how about adding select silver items to the repricing grid? Namely the ATB 5 oz....
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My CMoH and US Army $5 gold commems arrived at my PO box today and all look great. They also look great sitting in my safe deposit box with the other modern $5 gold commems.
<< <i>My CMoH and US Army $5 gold commems arrived at my PO box today and all look great. They also look great sitting in my safe deposit box with the other modern $5 gold commems. >>
How can you see them inside your sate(ty) deposit box? X-ray eyes?
<< <i>My CMoH and US Army $5 gold commems arrived at my PO box today and all look great. They also look great sitting in my safe deposit box with the other modern $5 gold commems. >>
How can you see them inside your sate(ty) deposit box? X-ray eyes? >>
Keep your coins hidden but safe, like I do-- no one would think to look under a flower pot up on a shelf in my basement.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
What coins/bullion looks good to pick up in the 2006-2008w years; gold or platinum? I have Eric's book but wanted to touch base with a few of our knowledgeable collectors. Thanks, Tony.
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
<< <i>Most of all these Ship's have sailed. (Julia Tyler, Unc-W's, 08 Buffs) I wonder if there will be another year like 06 and 08.
Edited .....The US Mint and Collectors lost when they did away with the Platinum and Gold Unc Fractionals. >>
I agree. You'll be buying into items which have already seen much appreciation rather than catching the run at the beginning. Eric has some nice graphs in his book of appreciation curves. IMO the burnished pieces are probably not a bad longterm buy. Having the key or near key of a well-followed and popular modern series is not necessarily a bad place to be, especially if you can get a good price. And we can be fairly sure that some of these mintages won't be beat anytime soon...that is, unless the Mint reintroduces the fractional burnished pieces. They have a way of throwing curve balls once in a while.
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Hey -- who derailed the OT discussion of humans on the moon, xray vision, rainforest (Ketchikan) coffee, and aliens? DANG.
I'm still waiting on my B/O'd status of the MOH's just before they went dark. Will they survive (the aliens, xrays, coffee, moon)?
I love this thread. <insert smiley here>
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Here we go again ----- change the subject and attack the "attitude", oh well, I guess that's the only way to get comfort about what you collect. It still doesn't change what most people think about the first haag series.
The truth hurts sometimes. Ever hear that saying?
The uglies will be collecting dust nest to the American Arts Medallions in the case ----- in a ratty beat up box from being moved in an out of the case week after week (at show after show).
Loooong drawn out series, terrible subject matter (ugly women), and pricey to collect the entire series. Destined to fail.
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Here we go again ----- change the subject and attack the "attitude", oh well, I guess that's the only way to get comfort about what you collect. It still doesn't change what most people think about the first haag series.
The truth hurts sometimes. Ever hear that saying?
The uglies will be collecting dust nest to the American Arts Medallions in the case ----- in a ratty beat up box from being moved in an out of the case week after week (at show after show).
Loooong drawn out series, terrible subject matter (ugly women), and pricey to collect the entire series. Destined to fail. >>
I'm afraid if you take away the current interest in trying to catch the low mintage key what is left is a very large number of expensive 1/2 ounce gold coins of overall similar appearance with a limited natural collector base.
Bear in mind about the Arts Medallions: 1) Arts Medallions are not coins 2) Most spouses in the series are types with much lower mintages than the Medallions 3) Medallions have suffered severe attrition, leading to: 4) Some of the scarcer Medallion issues apparently do have premiums attached to them
-----and in the process of trying to catch a low mintage key - it is only trumped by the next low mintage haag because these coins dont have a big collector base at all.
Add in the rise in bullion value and that further limits sales and thus mintage.
Anyone holding onto the low mintage keys that are not in the Liberty subset - take a hard look again at those prices. Time to unload. Those coins will be "trumped" by coming coins in the series if current trends in metal pricing and interest (lack of) continue.
Ahhh - an Arts Medallion fan. Dont get so sensitive. I know the series well.
Please keep in mind - it was an EXAMPLE.......I could have said collecting dust next to "So-Called" dollars, or "Lewis and Clark Pouch Sets", it doesnt matter - you get the picture.
The arts medallions are the closest approximation to spouses but even they have some key differences which kind of undermine an solid comparison. I believe the fact that they are not coins is the most important.
Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins but if you are holding a ugly generic first Hag (and there are plenty of them) that is 5 coins out from low mintage you own bullion and will for years and years and years. Are there going to be 3,000 collectors that want 40+ grand in this set? I don’t think so......... most collectors are going to cherry pick this set just like they do the old commems.
I collect the mint state 4 coin liberty set and I don’t even want to pay $1000 for a nice Jefferson's Liberty. If a new collector has to start now think of all the non key UGLY coins they have to buy to work on a set and lay out about a grand a coin. HIGH SET COST DISCOURAGES COLLECTOR BASE DEVELOPEMENT!
Which coin is more likely to double from today's prices the soonest - the Van Buren or the Martha Washington?
Given the current price trajectory of gold, my bet is on Martha.
Owning common First Spouses is not a bad way to invest in bullion. And considering that thousands of 2007's have reportedly been melted (with more to come), the common Spouses may someday fetch a premium over their bullion price.
<< <i>The arts medallions are the closest approximation to spouses but even they have some key differences which kind of undermine an solid comparison. I believe the fact that they are not coins is the most important. >>
I guess you dont get it.
I didnt pick the American Arts Medallions as a close approximation - the only comparison is how much dust they collected in the neglected corner of the "far" case.
<< <i>ATB's are not gold and they strain the definition of a "coin". Despite that, I believe the top few of them will command premiums in the years ahead. >>
True, but the concept seems to be similar in that most are valued at bullion, or will be as PM's rise. And both programs were hurt by rising PM prices, which has prevented a strong collector base from forming. And, additionally, the ATB's have also been hurt by manipulation from the AP's. Overall, not a great formula for success.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins >>
Eric - agree - for now.
Until they are de-throned by the next ugly with a 2,500 mintage. Then to be de-throned by a 2,000 mintage.
I think most people now realize that the haag's are not a popular series, and don't have a large collector base, and now are plagued by high metals prices all dragging down mintages.
Is the new norm for 3,000-4,000 mintages. But for how long? Maybe next year we see 2,000-3,000 normal mintages? What will that do to a Julia?
<< <i>The arts medallions are the closest approximation to spouses but even they have some key differences which kind of undermine an solid comparison. I believe the fact that they are not coins is the most important. >>
I guess you dont get it.
I didnt pick the American Arts Medallions as a close approximation - the only comparison is how much dust they collected in the neglected corner of the "far" case. >>
Yeah, but what do you make of some of the Medallions having premiums? Doesn't that suggest there are some collectors despite being an extremely unloved series as a whole?
<<What coins/bullion looks good to pick up in the 2006-2008w years; gold or platinum? I have Eric's book but wanted to touch base with a few of our knowledgeable collectors. Thanks, Tony. >>
I kinda asked the same question yesterday...and the run of burnished Unc. gold eagles (2006-2008) were mentioned frequently.
<< <i>Yeah, but what do you make of some of the Medallions having premiums? Doesn't that suggest there are some collectors despite being an extremely unloved series as a whole? >>
I just viewed a set of 1981-1982 dated Medallions, complete, Ch BU at 95% of melt. Premiums have melted away with increased gold prices.
<< <i>Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins but if you are holding a ugly generic first Hag (and there are plenty of them) that is 5 coins out from low mintage you own bullion and will for years and years and years. Are there going to be 3,000 collectors that want 40+ grand in this set? I don’t think so......... most collectors are going to cherry pick this set just like they do the old commems.
I collect the mint state 4 coin liberty set and I don’t even want to pay $1000 for a nice Jefferson's Liberty. If a new collector has to start now think of all the non key UGLY coins they have to buy to work on a set and lay out about a grand a coin. HIGH SET COST DISCOURAGES COLLECTOR BASE DEVELOPEMENT! >>
The good thing for the generic spouses is that the 4-coin liberty set will attract new collectors to the set and then maybe from there they will develop an interest in the others. It is because of that and the relative low mintages for modern gold that I hold out hope that these will not go the way of so many commemoratives. Also, I would like to think that a common theme helps the set because of the quasi-OCD nature of coin collectors in general who cannot stand "holes" in their set.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins >>
Eric - agree - for now.
Until they are de-throned by the next ugly with a 2,500 mintage. Then to be de-throned by a 2,000 mintage.
I think most people now realize that the haag's are not a popular series, and don't have a large collector base, and now are plagued by high metals prices all dragging down mintages.
Is the new norm for 3,000-4,000 mintages. But for how long? Maybe next year we see 2,000-3,000 normal mintages? What will that do to a Julia? >>
***********************
Right but I did not say that the already issued would be the greatest. It could be that the metals go nuts and crush the mintage of some yet unknown Hag. I am just saying that some of them will be good coins and some of them will. We have a long way to go to the end yet and my crystal ball is not that good.
2010 dated issues with a $800 price tag were good buys and thats what I told you guys 18 months ago. Right now I dont have an opionion about what is a good buy but I might have some very strong views in the next 3-4 months. ;-)
[Is the new norm for 3,000-4,000 mintages. But for how long? Maybe next year we see 2,000-3,000 normal mintages? What will that do to a Julia? >>
The risk of spending the premiums for today's queens is that they may be dethroned. The risk of not doing so is that they may not. Of course if you collect them all you will automatically snag the winners. I have leaned that way up to now but the prices are getting harder and harder to do and there is more precious metal risk.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
The ugly "hags" and commons have been outperforming the "key date" Liberty series for the better part of this year. It is just that no one wants to talk about it, especially those who spoke so highly of the coins earlier in the year). The "common" Buchanan MS is up sharply while the Proof version languishes (they are almost nearly worth the same price today when they had a roughly 75% spread between the coins earlier this year!) The 07 "commons" have risen in step with spot gold while the "key date" Liberty coins have corrected off their highs (the "common" 07 Jeffersons are now selling for only about $300 or $400 less than the key date Liberties and that "gap" has been closing on a weekly basis). The "ugly hags" (take Margaret Taylor for example) are now almost worth as much as some of the Liberty series key date coins. Fact be known ... if you had most of your money in commons and uglies this year ... you are having a KILLER year so far. If you had most of your money in the 4 or 5 "key date" Liberty coins, you are just doing "OK"... over the past 3-4 months you are lucky if you are breaking even (while gold spot has been skyrocketing).
Will the key date Liberty coins be good coins in the future? I personally think so. But, so will many of the ugly hags and commons too (and already are). And, hypothetically, if gold spot hits $3,000/oz in the years ahead, I believe the "commons" and "uglies" will be a very good place to be too. Just like the "commons" from 2007 were a great place to be when I sold the coins for about $450 each a few short years ago (as bullion) and they are now about $900-$1,000/coin today (enjoying nearly the same % return as most of the rare Liberty coins ... not quite (yet), but nearly)!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I think a huge problem, and what might happen as well is that despite design differences the "minor" or non-liberty hags will be lumped together and collected as types anyway and that nobody will really care what the mintages are. I see this happening with the ATB 5 oz coins as well, or at least a reasonable possibility.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I think you have some good points Wondercoin. With gold's big moves this year, I wouldn't be surprised if many folks sitting on common spouses bought near spot are doing better than those sitting on the more rare ones. I would have liked to see the proof bucks move a little quicker, but it is summer and gold is in the spotlight. I think the Bucks will have their day. If not, the spot will get closer to catching up with numismatic premium to the point where the more rare issues begin to look like a good deal. That is, if gold keeps rising.
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PinkFloyd - As I have mentioned before recently, don't be too surprised if the MS Buchanan and proof Buchanan are worth nearly the same price for some time to come and that, further down the road, the MS Buchanan is worth slightly MORE than the proof version. I know that is near heresy to even suggest on this thread ... but, as always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Yeah, but what do you make of some of the Medallions having premiums? Doesn't that suggest there are some collectors despite being an extremely unloved series as a whole? >>
I just viewed a set of 1981-1982 dated Medallions, complete, Ch BU at 95% of melt. Premiums have melted away with increased gold prices. >>
those are the 81's and 82's.... what about the keys?
I think the generic Spouses have been saved by the price of gold action. The liberty subset will no doubt do much better in a falling gold environment (and they are so much better to look at). It may be wise to use the recent uptick in gold to sell some "commons" and move into the coins that might have better holding power in a gold downturn.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
7/8 if we take your position that the mintages of the uglies will stay very low then that means more key dated coins will come in under the mintages of the Liberty coins.
If I was all in Liberties I would want the uglies being released to have higher mintages than the Liberties, not lower mintages. And if the mintages do come in lower, I would view that as negative. That may be why the Liberties have stalled out and the uglies are rising.
If there are any wealthy gold collectors out there I imagine they are looking at these coins as a great investment possibility at this point, especially when compared to the rest of the gold market. Record low modern gold mintages, a long string of 1/2 ounce gold coins, and as a set it is an interesting set.
The comparison to Arts medallions is a bad joke, not even close.
And let's not forget that the uglies all are numbered sequentially, that may not seem important but as a series it is easy to see what coins fit where. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. It is an almost perfect series that is numbered as such on the coins.
I wish the plat coins would be doing much better, but at the time those were the lowest mintages and seemed like sure bets. The uglies have now matched those coins but with the much more popular metal gold and with many more key date coins. With the plats its one or two, with the uglies it will be a long stretch of key coins in gold.
So as a set I think the uglies do much better than the plats due to the mintages and due to the metal, popularity and history. These aren't arts medallions. The average mintage is much lower than the plats, meaning much scarcer too. If you are looking to get just 1 key coin then you want very high average mintages, as a set collector though i think you want average mintages to be as low as possible. This is why I say as a set it will do very well. I would not worry about each coin but as a set buy each and don't worry. The set is now almost half out, so not much longer to go till its finished. Good luck buying then.
Is it my imagination or has there been a sudden increase in grading of the older Spouse coins at PCGS? I was looking at the numbers recently compared them to last year and many of the coins have double the number of total submissions. I noticed that First Strike number had not changed much though on most of them. This could bode well for First Strike on these.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Let me know when you can get a Jackson or Van Buren Liberty Proof PCGS FS 70 cheap. I will not buy at the $2-2.5K prices for these. Only missing three of Liberty subset in PCGS First Strike 70s. i hope they do fall in pricing but doubt it.
7/8 a closer comparison the medallions right now is probably the 5 ounce ATB coins. I worried that interest would dry up fast and it appears it has, with the collector version cannibalizing the bullion sales. I would be sweating bullets right now paying high premiums for those.
Comments
<< <i>Just got my MOH MS Gold Commem. Sent it back for an exchange. Had a nasty blotch on the obverse. Hope these are all not the rejects they are shipping now. Almost hope they do a second minting of these to get a better one. Proof version should be here tomorrow. That is the problem ordering these so late in the year. >>
Hi pf70-
I was just logging on to post a note similar to yours.
I just received my MOH and Army Uncs. I placed two orders of one of each. I opened one.
Both - with the MOH obverse being the worse - have numerous "shiny" spots relative to the more burnished, non-reflective finish in several areas. When I turn the coin at various angles to the light these spots are very easy to see.
Quite disappointing. Both are going back for exchange. I'll be ticked if they go back and then the never come up again. I think that this is unlikely but who knows. I should have gone to The Mint or Union Station w/a loupe instead of this game.
How have everyone else's looked?
R-
Edited: Just opened box number two: The Army is totally flawless. Lucked out with this one. Literally perfect.
The MOH sucks. LOTS of shiny areas all over the female figure and shield. Back it goes.
"The United States Mint has suspended sales of commemorative gold coins for re-pricing.
Due to the current market volatility, we will be placing these coins on a “pricing grid” similar to the structure we use to price America Eagle, American Buffalo and First Spouse gold coins.
A new grid specific to these coins is being developed and will be posted when complete."
It will be interesting when the sales numbers come out on these. Any guesses how much they increased? Do you think everyone concentrated on the UNC version and ignored the PR version? My guess would be affirmative.
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out.
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
????
<< <i>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
???? >>
It's 9:30am Alaska time, which means I haven't had my second cup of coffee, and thus, it's too early for riddles.
<< <i>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
???? >>
Yeah...& don't forget planet X...circling behind the sun and all those aliens on ice in area 51.
<< <i>Both - with the MOH obverse being the worse - have numerous "shiny" spots relative to the more burnished, non-reflective finish in several areas. When I turn the coin at various angles to the light these spots are very easy to see. >>
Maybe you can get it slabbed "Light Finish Shiny Spots."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
???? >>
It's 9:30am Alaska time, which means I haven't had my second cup of coffee, and thus, it's too early for riddles. >>
You live in Alaska PF? Or do you just get your coffee from Eskimos.
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
You are either over 70 years old or a fan of Lyndon LaRoushe.
If gold price stay in the current range (1750-1799), does it mean the price will rise again on Wed?
<< <i>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Just so you cant say no one every told you: No humans have ever been within 1,000 miles of the moon. Sorry, I was disapointed also when I found out. >>
You are either over 70 years old or a fan of Lyndon LaRoushe. >>
Haha!
Yup, live in Alaska...where it's already fall....My coffee comes from the rainforest....has a long way to go between there and my French press.
Hey US Mint, how about adding select silver items to the repricing grid? Namely the ATB 5 oz....
<< <i>My coffee comes from the rainforest.... >>
Ketchikan?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>My CMoH and US Army $5 gold commems arrived at my PO box today and all look great. They also look great sitting in my safe deposit box with the other modern $5 gold commems. >>
How can you see them inside your sate(ty) deposit box? X-ray eyes?
<< <i>
<< <i>My CMoH and US Army $5 gold commems arrived at my PO box today and all look great. They also look great sitting in my safe deposit box with the other modern $5 gold commems. >>
How can you see them inside your sate(ty) deposit box? X-ray eyes?
Keep your coins hidden but safe, like I do-- no one would think to look under a flower pot up on a shelf in my basement.
<< <i>What coins/bullion looks good to pick up in the 2006-2008w years; gold or platinum? >>
I still like the fractional gold buffaloes myself. --aap
Edited .....The US Mint and Collectors lost when they did away with the Platinum and Gold Unc Fractionals.
<< <i>Most of all these Ship's have sailed. (Julia Tyler, Unc-W's, 08 Buffs) I wonder if there will be another year like 06 and 08.
Edited .....The US Mint and Collectors lost when they did away with the Platinum and Gold Unc Fractionals. >>
I agree. You'll be buying into items which have already seen much appreciation rather than catching the run at the beginning. Eric has some nice graphs in his book of appreciation curves. IMO the burnished pieces are probably not a bad longterm buy. Having the key or near key of a well-followed and popular modern series is not necessarily a bad place to be, especially if you can get a good price. And we can be fairly sure that some of these mintages won't be beat anytime soon...that is, unless the Mint reintroduces the fractional burnished pieces. They have a way of throwing curve balls once in a while.
I'm still waiting on my B/O'd status of the MOH's just before they went dark. Will they survive (the aliens, xrays, coffee, moon)?
I love this thread. <insert smiley here>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Here we go again ----- change the subject and attack the "attitude", oh well, I guess that's the only way to get comfort about what you collect. It still doesn't change what most people think about the first haag series.
The truth hurts sometimes. Ever hear that saying?
The uglies will be collecting dust nest to the American Arts Medallions in the case ----- in a ratty beat up box from being moved in an out of the case week after week (at show after show).
Loooong drawn out series, terrible subject matter (ugly women), and pricey to collect the entire series. Destined to fail.
<< <i>
<< <i>The attitude reminds me of old timers who still believe we never walked on the moon because back in the 40's and 50's everyone said it was impossible. >>
Here we go again ----- change the subject and attack the "attitude", oh well, I guess that's the only way to get comfort about what you collect. It still doesn't change what most people think about the first haag series.
The truth hurts sometimes. Ever hear that saying?
The uglies will be collecting dust nest to the American Arts Medallions in the case ----- in a ratty beat up box from being moved in an out of the case week after week (at show after show).
Loooong drawn out series, terrible subject matter (ugly women), and pricey to collect the entire series. Destined to fail. >>
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I agree.
I'm afraid if you take away the current interest in trying to catch the low mintage key what is left is a very large number of expensive 1/2 ounce gold coins of overall similar appearance with a limited natural collector base.
1) Arts Medallions are not coins
2) Most spouses in the series are types with much lower mintages than the Medallions
3) Medallions have suffered severe attrition, leading to:
4) Some of the scarcer Medallion issues apparently do have premiums attached to them
Add in the rise in bullion value and that further limits sales and thus mintage.
Anyone holding onto the low mintage keys that are not in the Liberty subset - take a hard look again at those prices. Time to unload. Those coins will be "trumped" by coming coins in the series if current trends in metal pricing and interest (lack of) continue.
<< <i>Bear in mind about the Arts Medallions: >>
Ahhh - an Arts Medallion fan. Dont get so sensitive. I know the series well.
Please keep in mind - it was an EXAMPLE.......I could have said collecting dust next to "So-Called" dollars, or "Lewis and Clark Pouch Sets", it doesnt matter - you get the picture.
I collect the mint state 4 coin liberty set and I don’t even want to pay $1000 for a nice Jefferson's Liberty. If a new collector has to start now think of all the non key UGLY coins they have to buy to work on a set and lay out about a grand a coin. HIGH SET COST DISCOURAGES COLLECTOR BASE DEVELOPEMENT!
<< <i>The arts medallions are the closest approximation to spouses ................ >>
Really? Have you looked at the ATB's lately?
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Given the current price trajectory of gold, my bet is on Martha.
Owning common First Spouses is not a bad way to invest in bullion. And considering that thousands of 2007's have reportedly been melted (with more to come), the common Spouses may someday fetch a premium over their bullion price.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>The arts medallions are the closest approximation to spouses but even they have some key differences which kind of undermine an solid comparison. I believe the fact that they are not coins is the most important. >>
I guess you dont get it.
I didnt pick the American Arts Medallions as a close approximation - the only comparison is how much dust they collected in the neglected corner of the "far" case.
<< <i>ATB's are not gold and they strain the definition of a "coin". Despite that, I believe the top few of them will command premiums in the years ahead. >>
True, but the concept seems to be similar in that most are valued at bullion, or will be as PM's rise. And both programs were hurt by rising PM prices, which has prevented a strong collector base from forming. And, additionally, the ATB's have also been hurt by manipulation from the AP's. Overall, not a great formula for success.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins >>
Eric - agree - for now.
Until they are de-throned by the next ugly with a 2,500 mintage. Then to be de-throned by a 2,000 mintage.
I think most people now realize that the haag's are not a popular series, and don't have a large collector base, and now are plagued by high metals prices all dragging down mintages.
Is the new norm for 3,000-4,000 mintages. But for how long? Maybe next year we see 2,000-3,000 normal mintages? What will that do to a Julia?
<< <i>
<< <i>The arts medallions are the closest approximation to spouses but even they have some key differences which kind of undermine an solid comparison. I believe the fact that they are not coins is the most important. >>
I guess you dont get it.
I didnt pick the American Arts Medallions as a close approximation - the only comparison is how much dust they collected in the neglected corner of the "far" case. >>
Yeah, but what do you make of some of the Medallions having premiums? Doesn't that suggest there are some collectors despite being an extremely unloved series as a whole?
I kinda asked the same question yesterday...and the run of burnished Unc. gold eagles (2006-2008) were mentioned frequently.
<< <i>Yeah, but what do you make of some of the Medallions having premiums? Doesn't that suggest there are some collectors despite being an extremely unloved series as a whole? >>
I just viewed a set of 1981-1982 dated Medallions, complete, Ch BU at 95% of melt. Premiums have melted away with increased gold prices.
<< <i>Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins but if you are holding a ugly generic first Hag (and there are plenty of them) that is 5 coins out from low mintage you own bullion and will for years and years and years. Are there going to be 3,000 collectors that want 40+ grand in this set? I don’t think so......... most collectors are going to cherry pick this set just like they do the old commems.
I collect the mint state 4 coin liberty set and I don’t even want to pay $1000 for a nice Jefferson's Liberty. If a new collector has to start now think of all the non key UGLY coins they have to buy to work on a set and lay out about a grand a coin. HIGH SET COST DISCOURAGES COLLECTOR BASE DEVELOPEMENT! >>
The good thing for the generic spouses is that the 4-coin liberty set will attract new collectors to the set and then maybe from there they will develop an interest in the others. It is because of that and the relative low mintages for modern gold that I hold out hope that these will not go the way of so many commemoratives. Also, I would like to think that a common theme helps the set because of the quasi-OCD nature of coin collectors in general who cannot stand "holes" in their set.
<< <i>
<< <i>Some of the First Hags are going to be good coins >>
Eric - agree - for now.
Until they are de-throned by the next ugly with a 2,500 mintage. Then to be de-throned by a 2,000 mintage.
I think most people now realize that the haag's are not a popular series, and don't have a large collector base, and now are plagued by high metals prices all dragging down mintages.
Is the new norm for 3,000-4,000 mintages. But for how long? Maybe next year we see 2,000-3,000 normal mintages? What will that do to a Julia? >>
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Right but I did not say that the already issued would be the greatest. It could be that the metals go nuts and crush the mintage of some yet unknown Hag. I am just saying that some of them will be good coins and some of them will. We have a long way to go to the end yet and my crystal ball is not that good.
2010 dated issues with a $800 price tag were good buys and thats what I told you guys 18 months ago. Right now I dont have an opionion about what is a good buy but I might have some very strong views in the next 3-4 months. ;-)
Eric
The risk of spending the premiums for today's queens is that they may be dethroned. The risk of not doing so is that they may not. Of course if you collect them all you will automatically snag the winners. I have leaned that way up to now but the prices are getting harder and harder to do and there is more precious metal risk.
The ugly "hags" and commons have been outperforming the "key date" Liberty series for the better part of this year. It is just that no one wants to talk about it, especially those who spoke so highly of the coins earlier in the year). The "common" Buchanan MS is up sharply while the Proof version languishes (they are almost nearly worth the same price today when they had a roughly 75% spread between the coins earlier this year!) The 07 "commons" have risen in step with spot gold while the "key date" Liberty coins have corrected off their highs (the "common" 07 Jeffersons are now selling for only about $300 or $400 less than the key date Liberties and that "gap" has been closing on a weekly basis). The "ugly hags" (take Margaret Taylor for example) are now almost worth as much as some of the Liberty series key date coins. Fact be known ... if you had most of your money in commons and uglies this year ... you are having a KILLER year so far. If you had most of your money in the 4 or 5 "key date" Liberty coins, you are just doing "OK"... over the past 3-4 months you are lucky if you are breaking even (while gold spot has been skyrocketing).
Will the key date Liberty coins be good coins in the future? I personally think so. But, so will many of the ugly hags and commons too (and already are). And, hypothetically, if gold spot hits $3,000/oz in the years ahead, I believe the "commons" and "uglies" will be a very good place to be too. Just like the "commons" from 2007 were a great place to be when I sold the coins for about $450 each a few short years ago (as bullion) and they are now about $900-$1,000/coin today (enjoying nearly the same % return as most of the rare Liberty coins ... not quite (yet), but nearly)!
Wondercoin
Well, just Love coins, period.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, but what do you make of some of the Medallions having premiums? Doesn't that suggest there are some collectors despite being an extremely unloved series as a whole? >>
I just viewed a set of 1981-1982 dated Medallions, complete, Ch BU at 95% of melt. Premiums have melted away with increased gold prices. >>
those are the 81's and 82's.... what about the keys?
If I was all in Liberties I would want the uglies being released to have higher mintages than the Liberties, not lower mintages. And if the mintages do come in lower, I would view that as negative. That may be why the Liberties have stalled out and the uglies are rising.
If there are any wealthy gold collectors out there I imagine they are looking at these coins as a great investment possibility at this point, especially when compared to the rest of the gold market. Record low modern gold mintages, a long string of 1/2 ounce gold coins, and as a set it is an interesting set.
The comparison to Arts medallions is a bad joke, not even close.
And let's not forget that the uglies all are numbered sequentially, that may not seem important but as a series it is easy to see what coins fit where. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. It is an almost perfect series that is numbered as such on the coins.
I wish the plat coins would be doing much better, but at the time those were the lowest mintages and seemed like sure bets. The uglies have now matched those coins but with the much more popular metal gold and with many more key date coins. With the plats its one or two, with the uglies it will be a long stretch of key coins in gold.
So as a set I think the uglies do much better than the plats due to the mintages and due to the metal, popularity and history. These aren't arts medallions. The average mintage is much lower than the plats, meaning much scarcer too. If you are looking to get just 1 key coin then you want very high average mintages, as a set collector though i think you want average mintages to be as low as possible. This is why I say as a set it will do very well. I would not worry about each coin but as a set buy each and don't worry. The set is now almost half out, so not much longer to go till its finished. Good luck buying then.
Box of 20