Their coins are currently priced for $1800 - $1850, current range, so no reason there to stop selling.
Maybe people are going nuts buying and they just had to stop for a day or two to get their heads on straight. >>
Their product is currently priced at $1,750-$1,799.99, which is one tier lower. But if price of gold stay above $1851 on Wed London PM fix, there could be a two tier increase.
EDIT: It's strange. My reply to your post is actually in front of yours
Their coins are currently priced for $1800 - $1850, current range, so no reason there to stop selling.
Maybe people are going nuts buying and they just had to stop for a day or two to get their heads on straight. >>
Their product is currently priced at $1,750-$1,799.99, which is one tier lower. But if price of gold stay above $1851 on Wed London PM fix, there could be a two tier increase.
EDIT: It's strange. My reply to your post is actually in front of yours >>
Yep, your right on the price. Maybe they didn't want a flood of buying before the increase, which would be followed by a flood of cancels or returns if the price of gold drops.
Who knows, they think to much.
I'd of been pretty upset if I was going to pull the trigger on gold today, Tuesday, and they pull this crap. Wed. afternoon is the day per the policy, what's the problem.?!?!?
Their coins are currently priced for $1800 - $1850, current range, so no reason there to stop selling.
Maybe people are going nuts buying and they just had to stop for a day or two to get their heads on straight. >>
Their product is currently priced at $1,750-$1,799.99, which is one tier lower. But if price of gold stay above $1851 on Wed London PM fix, there could be a two tier increase.
EDIT: It's strange. My reply to your post is actually in front of yours >>
Yep, your right on the price. Maybe they didn't want a flood of buying before the increase, which would be followed by a flood of cancels or returns if the price of gold drops.
Who knows, they think to much.
I'd of been pretty upset if I was going to pull the trigger on gold today, Tuesday, and they pull this crap. Wed. afternoon is the day per the policy, what's the problem.?!?!? >>
They can raise prices just like the rest of us.
and gold was climbing faster than their schedule allowed.
they need to just wake up in the morning and do it. get it over with. Rinse. Repeat. Next Day.
Holy Cow! Did anyone notice the $50 2011 W AGE PCGS MS70FS which sold on FeeBay BIN for $3799!!!!
WOW, I bought two for $2150 and was not sure that it was a good deal. The seller offered me a third which I passed on.
Perhaps it's time to sell one - $1650 profit sounds good.
If you had two of them, would you sell one? Could be a killer coin but of course don't know yet. Could sell a ton and end up just over spot. What to do...
<< <i>It is nuts what folks will pay for the pretty label.
I know that the counter to that is that it was only submitted once. That said, the premiums paid for a FS label seem nuts, but folks pay nonetheless. >>
Agreed. And because I think it is so silly it costs me money sometimes. The fact is the premiums are paid. Sometimes I just can't get my head around something that on the surface is so ludacris.
<< <i>I guess it is time to submit my sealed 2008-W APEs. >>
I wonder how many more sealed boxes are out there. That is the problem with reading the Pop Reports, assuming those are the final numbers and paying big bucks for something that may come crashing down.
<< <i>It is nuts what folks will pay for the pretty label.
I know that the counter to that is that it was only submitted once. That said, the premiums paid for a FS label seem nuts, but folks pay nonetheless. >>
Agreed. And because I think it is so silly it costs me money sometimes. The fact is the premiums are paid. Sometimes I just can't get my head around something that on the surface is so ludacris. >>
I totally agree. That said, I fork out the $18 all the time. That $18 investment can pay off so very well.
<< <i>I guess it is time to submit my sealed 2008-W APEs. >>
I wonder how many more sealed boxes are out there. That is the problem with reading the Pop Reports, assuming those are the final numbers and paying big bucks for something that may come crashing down. >>
Great question.
First, the question is how many FS eligible boxes are out there. Likely not many as many folks, like myself, only ordered when it was apparent that the mintages would be low which was long after the FS cut-off.
There are likely more non-FS sealed boxes out there, but perhaps not enough to change the pops much.
I for one have sealed '08 w Plat Proof sets as well as sealed Proof and Unc 2008 W buff sets, $10 2008 W AGE Uncs, etc. None are FS eligible.
I have one PCGS $50 APE PF70FS. It is tempting to sell at that price.
First, the question is how many FS eligible boxes are out there. Likely not many as many folks, like myself, only ordered when it was apparent that the mintages would be low which was long after the FS cut-off.
Actually, I think you would be surprised.
I have several Mint boxes still sealed that have gold and platinum in them, some of which are FS eligible. Why spend the $$ if the FS coin tanks. But, after a few years, it looks like they are zoomed up in price and are holding steady; it is time to grade them.
The other thing is to do like you did. Roll the dice, buy them graded and hope a bunch don't show in FS eligible boxes to be graded when it looks like they may be worth the grading fees plus a premium.
In the case of thee particular coins, I feel you did well. But, like you, I would be debating if I should flip them for the profit.
What do you think the long term potential will be? Have they peaked and are going to sit at that level? If more come on the markets, there may be a small increase (people just having to have one) but then, IMOP, they will drop as the buyer get their fill.
Look what happened to the 2011 pucks when the grade appeared to be small but then, BOOM; they started falling out of the sky.
<< <i>First, the question is how many FS eligible boxes are out there. Likely not many as many folks, like myself, only ordered when it was apparent that the mintages would be low which was long after the FS cut-off.
Actually, I think you would be surprised.
I have several Mint boxes still sealed that have gold and platinum in them, some of which are FS eligible. Why spend the $$ if the FS coin tanks. But, after a few years, it looks like they are zoomed up in price and are holding steady; it is time to grade them.
The other thing is to do like you did. Roll the dice, buy them graded and hope a bunch don't show in FS eligible boxes to be graded when it looks like they may be worth the grading fees plus a premium.
In the case of thee particular coins, I feel you did well. But, like you, I would be debating if I should flip them for the profit.
What do you think the long term potential will be? Have they peaked and are going to sit at that level? If more come on the markets, there may be a small increase (people just having to have one) but then, IMOP, they will drop as the buyer get their fill.
Look what happened to the 2011 pucks when the grade appeared to be small but then, BOOM; they started falling out of the sky. >>
As to the pucks, I think that the hard fall was predictable. The factor was how few were initially released. Most knew that when the rest hit the market that they would drop.
I don't know about the plats. Mitch and Eric are the sages of those.
The '08 Ws have a great premium now. I was very surprised by the price of the $50 PF70. They may have peaked. Such a small collector base.
I also hold two 2011 W $50 AGE PCGS MS70FS. One just sold for $3800. This is a very tough call. Sell now for the same and make a huge profit or, if it stays very low, it may be a $5K coin. Don't know. Like stocks, hogs get fed, pigs get slaughtered (or whatever that saying is).
As to the sealed FS eligible sets, it's not so much the grading fees that I had in mind as much as the cost of the sets. I only ordered the 2008 W sets (AGE uncs, buffs, plat proof and uncs) when it was clear the numbers were low. Buying right out of the gate when one had no idea of the numbers would involve tying up far too much money. That is why I thought that there were likely too many FS eligible sets out there. Looks like I'm wrong.
Playing these things is a little like stocks. Of course, the bottom here is the gold/plat/silver prices as opposed to stocks with the bottom is zero.
You also have to consider the ER coins from across the street. Last I checked, they were not commanding near that price and there always seems to be a few on eBay. If the MS70FS coins get to high, I can see the normal collector switching over to the ER coins for their collection and reducing the demand for the FS coin.
Decisions, decisions - gee, I wish I was in your shoes!!!!!
Yes, no complaints here. That said, there are many on the forum who had took the risk and bought a LOT of the 2008 W issues and the risk paid off.
The ER is an interesting animal. Being that the coins must be across the street by the cut-off date and sealed boxes are not accepted (makes no sense to me at all) the pops are the final pops.
<< <i>Yes, no complaints here. That said, there are many on the forum who had took the risk and bought a LOT of the 2008 W issues and the risk paid off.
The ER is an interesting animal. Being that the coins must be across the street by the cut-off date and sealed boxes are not accepted (makes no sense to me at all) the pops are the final pops. >>
Interesting. I was not aware sealed boxes were not eligible for ER. I don't deal much with NGC, but this is good to know.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Isn't there also a risk that FS-eligible coins in sealed boxes will grade less than 70? The 69FS coins don't appear to carry much premium over regular 69's.
<< <i>Isn't there also a risk that FS-eligible coins in sealed boxes will grade less than 70? The 69FS coins don't appear to carry much premium over regular 69's. >>
There is a big risk even opened boxes submitted on time that look like MS70 will grade less. Then again, a MS69 may get an MS70 grade.
<< <i>I also hold two 2011 W $50 AGE PCGS MS70FS. One just sold for $3800. This is a very tough call. Sell now for the same and make a huge profit or, if it stays very low, it may be a $5K coin. Don't know. Like stocks, hogs get fed, pigs get slaughtered (or whatever that saying is). >>
My opinion is keep watching the numbers on these 2011-W $50 Uncs. If you could get $3800 or a FS MS70, take it and buy 2 more raw ones. If the numbers come in real low, you will be happy you did.
When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunk of proofs and in very early July a big chunk of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them.
( To get a feel for what it was like holding platinum in 2008 see the file attachment................... )
<< <i>2008 was a very strange year for platinum eagles. When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunck of proofs and in very early July a big chunck of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them. >>
Since, I don't want to start a thread just to ask this question, I figured this would be the topic to ask it. I have a sealed gold eagle set from a few years ago, less than five I believe. It's not a proof set but I don't remember the year I got it. Is there anything on the outside label that can tell me what year the set is?
<< <i>2008 was a very strange year for platinum eagles. When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunck of proofs and in very early July a big chunck of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them. >>
Thanks for the great post!
<< <i>So, can an ER be crossed to an FS? >>
No PCGS will not cross the NGC ER to PCGS FS.
<< <i>Isn't there also a risk that FS-eligible coins in sealed boxes will grade less than 70? The 69FS coins don't appear to carry much premium over regular 69's. >>
There is a big risk even opened boxes submitted on time that look like MS70 will grade less. Then again, a MS69 may get an MS70 grade.
Is this seller "kettybeeth" on the forum? He/she sells a lot of Moderns.
Linky
(MsM...I finally did a link correctly :-)
<< <i>I also hold two 2011 W $50 AGE PCGS MS70FS. One just sold for $3800. This is a very tough call. Sell now for the same and make a huge profit or, if it stays very low, it may be a $5K coin. Don't know. Like stocks, hogs get fed, pigs get slaughtered (or whatever that saying is). >>
My opinion is keep watching the numbers on these 2011-W $50 Uncs. If you could get $3800 or a FS MS70, take it and buy 2 more raw ones. If the numbers come in real low, you will be happy you did.
<< <i>
<< <i>I guess it is time to submit my sealed 2008-W APEs. >>
Are they FS eligible?? >>
.............................................................................
Yes
When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunk of proofs and in very early July a big chunk of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them.
( To get a feel for what it was like holding platinum in 2008 see the file attachment................... )
Or was it "gerbils get fed and the Houston Astros get slaughtered"? I always get that mixed up myself.
Edited to add: Now that I think about it, I know a few Bulls who have been slaughtered too...
<< <i>2008 was a very strange year for platinum eagles. When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunck of proofs and in very early July a big chunck of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them. >>
Thanks for the great post!!
Interesting considering you can still pick up a Buck unc. for nearly that price...
if they went to live auctions, people generally stop in the vicinity of the mint issue price.
<< <i>
<< <i>2008 was a very strange year for platinum eagles. When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunck of proofs and in very early July a big chunck of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them. >>
Thanks for the great post!![/q
...................................................................................................................................................................
Just a post script............
In 2008 the US Mint had the worst possible timing of events.
They introduced and priced the Unc APEs when spot Platinum was at $2,000+ only to see price drop $600 in 30 days after introduction killing sales and spurring returns..
After they pulled the coins for repricing spot prices continued to fall to a low of near $800 by Oct 2008.
A $1,200 per ounce drop!!
When in October coins were reintroduced they were priced at around half the original offering price from July but still at a significant premium to spot bullion..
By that time Lehman Brothers had failed in September and the financial crisis of 2008 was full blown and the stock market was crashing.
Demand for coins was low and when sales ended in early December the result was some historic low mintages for all four coins.
This debacle also led to the end of the 30 day 'no questions asked' return policy at the U.S. Mint.
<< <i>Since, I don't want to start a thread just to ask this question, I figured this would be the topic to ask it. I have a sealed gold eagle set from a few years ago, less than five I believe. It's not a proof set but I don't remember the year I got it. Is there anything on the outside label that can tell me what year the set is? >>
1. it may have the 8 digit order number on the outside.
2. the ship date will be around the time of the order. you may find the order online by trying order dates around the ship date. my old orders from that long ago still show when they were shipped and the tracking number.
<< <i>Since, I don't want to start a thread just to ask this question, I figured this would be the topic to ask it. I have a sealed gold eagle set from a few years ago, less than five I believe. It's not a proof set but I don't remember the year I got it. Is there anything on the outside label that can tell me what year the set is? >>
There isn't a postmark on the box?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>2008 was a very strange year for platinum eagles. When the proofs came out spot prices were sky high and a 4 coin set was around $4K as I recall.
I bit off a big chunck of proofs and in very early July a big chunck of 2008-W burnished.
By late July spot prices had crashed and while it was too late to return the proofs I had to decide what to do with the burnished sets and singles.
I knew sales had to be very low so potential FS labels for the burnished would be rare, however by the end of July I was, as I recall, looking at an almost $1000+ per set decline for base metal value of each 4 coin set.
Also remember at that time there was a 30 day return option and no reason to think the APEs would be pulled only to later be re-introduced at lower price.
So the delemia................Submit the sealed Uncirculated APEs for grading and FS labels knowing the FS labels would be rare but also knowing all those 50-75% of coins that graded MS69s or less would not be back in time to return to mint and would by early August have an almost 40% decline in spot value costing me thousands or whether to go ahead and open most of the sets, return the obvious MS69 or lower coins to the mint and be happy to keep the 'pick of the litter' for later submission but without FS labels.
All of this also occurred during a period of time when there was great confusion and flip-flopping by PCGS over whether colector club members could even submit for FS labeling.
In the end the coin collector in me over came the paper label collector and I returned enough 2008-W APEs to save 50+K based on spot metal difference from early July to early August. (Check Kitco historical prices to see the truely dramatic decline in platinum prices during that 30 day period.)
I will mention all this was too late for the Proof APEs which have sat quietly to the side, sealed away til their at times indecisive owner got off his duff to submit them. >>
Thanks for the great post!![/q
...................................................................................................................................................................
Just a post script............
In 2008 the US Mint had the worst possible timing of events.
They introduced and priced the Unc APEs when spot Platinum was at $2,000+ only to see price drop $600 in 30 days after introduction killing sales and spurring returns..
After they pulled the coins for repricing spot prices continued to fall to a low of near $800 by Oct 2008.
A $1,200 per ounce drop!!
When in October coins were reintroduced they were priced at around half the original offering price from July but still at a significant premium to spot bullion..
By that time Lehman Brothers had failed in September and the financial crisis of 2008 was full blown and the stock market was crashing.
Demand for coins was low and when sales ended in early December the result was some historic low mintages for all four coins.
This debacle also led to the end of the 30 day 'no questions asked' return policy at the U.S. Mint. >>
This insightful post into the great issues of '08 would be a neat addition to Eric's book when/if the next addition is done.
<< <i>Hayes is hitting the streets tomorrow at $1041 and $1054 for unc. and proof respectively.
Interesting considering you can still pick up a Buck unc. for nearly that price... >>
Wow, and just think of what Martha Wash. went for. Julia may be in real trouble.