<<To anyone with access to NGC population reports, will you please share NGC's total number of coins graded for the 2008-W unc. $10 Gold Buffalo? I'd appreciate it. Also, can anyone do the same over at ICG? Thanks! >>
The NGC numbers for the 2008-W $10 Buff Unc. are as follows:
Early Releases: 2,018 (409 in MS69; 1,609 in MS70) Non Early Releases: 1,127 (2 in MS68; 136 in MS69; 989 in MS70)
And I happen to own one of those 68s (got it cheap) for what's its worth...being a counter-trend type of guy!
Thanks RichR! Just trying to get an idea of the graded population. The mint's "sales" stats currently show that there were a total of 9,949 of these sold. NGC has graded 3,145 of them & Pcgs only 767. (if I'm reading it all correctly) Sounds to me, if you include all other TPG's (ICG, ANACS, etc.) graded coins & those that may have made it into jewelry, that the number of "pure" raw coins will probably be less than 5,000. Of those, many will remain with their 3 brothers, or sisters, in 4 coin sets. So what do you think... 4,000 individual, singles remain in mint pkg? 3,000? lol... just thinking out loud here.
I am keeping one set each of proof and uncirculated buffaloes raw. They look gorgeous in their boxes. If ever I decide to sell them, I will grade them first.
Looks like I might have to break my boycott of ebay and cough up the 10% fees in order to sell some stuff. BST isn't working, and it sure looks like ebay is.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Looks like I might have to break my boycott of ebay and cough up the 10% fees in order to sell some stuff. BST isn't working, and it sure looks like ebay is. >>
Please don't .... I like less competition...... On the other hand, "Money talks, bs walks." Why would anyone try sell a hot item on the BST, with only "savy" buyers lurking looking for a deal that can be flipped on eBay for a quick profit?
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Why would anyone try sell a hot item on the BST, with only "savy" buyers lurking looking for a deal that can be flipped on eBay for a quick profit?
Well, that is the question, isn't it? I would expect that most "saavy buyers" who lurk on BST have an established customer base, and that they *might* have a potential buyer who doesn't necessarily buy off of ebay.
I don't mind paying the 10% to someone who has earned it by working to service his own customer base.
Anyone who sells on BST to an ebay vendor is most likely taking an immediate 20% haircut - 10% for ebay fees, and 10% to the ebay vendor who buys off BST and then turns around and sells the same item on ebay. Not very efficient, from a seller's perspective.
If a set is as hot as the Gold Buffs, you are right - you really don't have to look too far to find a solid buyer. Somehow, I think that is more the exception than the rule.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
It goes both ways... I have been offering to buy 2009 $100 Proof Plats on the BST board at $2,000/coin (net to seller) and sellers are selling them on ebay on open bid for less than that amount many times. Even if I have to pay $2,000 on ebay (like a BIN I just hit this morning), I get about 2% back by being about to use my credit card (not to mention "cashback rebate" opportunities as well from time to time). The seller, after ebay fees, paypal fees and free shipping probably netted closer to $1,800 - $1,850 on the coin I just bought. And, on the one I bought before that for $1,925 on open bid on ebay (about $1,900 net to me after the value of my credit card"points"), the seller should net around $1,800 tops from the sale. A lot of work to net hundreds of dollars LESS than simply selling them on the BST board - no?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>f a set is as hot as the Gold Buffs, you are right - you really don't have to look too far to find a solid buyer. Somehow, I think that is more the exception than the rule. >>
That's why you won't get the best price, by a longshot, if you're trying to sell the 2008 buffs on the BST.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Searched ebay realised prices for 2009 platinum under the coins category.Through mid feb a dozen 2009-w $100 APE's sold in OGP.The lowest price(inc postage) was $2154 ,the average was $2237 with the highest going for $2290.If you listed as one of your five "free" listings, your maximum ebay fees would be $20 and you'd lose 2.9% to paypal - no matter who buys it you have to pay for shipping.So you'd clear about $2100 to $2150(before postage)with a shot at $2200.The only coins I found going for under $2000 were pf69's.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
While some may scoff certainly some of the NGC PR70s are of equal quality and there are almost certainly many more 1995-W ASE PR70 that have never been submitted.
As I believe David Hall once pointed out...........reported populations frequently rise and virtually never fall.
The teletrade offered price is pure ego driven and IMO stupid money.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
15 year old coin in original government packaging exposed and not slabbed even in intercept shielding, I would think these PCGS 70s would be hard to come by. I even doubt PCGS will even cross a NGC 70 which can be had for 10-15K now.
The mint never surprises me with these 2008 W Gold Buffalos. I am sure the economic climate that we are in today as well as in 2008 contributed to the rarity of these sets. 2010 economic recovery seems shoddy at best, so this may yet be another year where the mint may surprise, depending on the demand for their bullion, which could take away from the total mintage of their collector offerings in precious metals. However, as an example, 2009 Gold Buffalo Proofs seem abundant so far, so there is no rhyme or reason sometimes of which mint offering will become a rarity. Its a crapshoot really.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
While some may scoff certainly some of the NGC PR70s are of equal quality and there are almost certainly many more 1995-W ASE PR70 that have never been submitted.
As I believe David Hall once pointed out...........reported populations frequently rise and virtually never fall.
The teletrade offered price is pure ego driven and IMO stupid money.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
15 year old coin in original government packaging exposed and not slabbed even in intercept shielding, I would think these PCGS 70s would be hard to come by. I even doubt PCGS will even cross a NGC 70 which can be had for 10-15K now. >>
Your statements open some areas for serious discussion.
To the best of my knowledge the OGP is just as safe a way to keep ASE proof as a PCGS slab. Some have suggested OGP may even be superior.
What is total population of NGC and PCGS graded 1995-W ASEs?? What fraction of total universe of 30,000 are represented?? How or why would we assume there are not proportionally as many remaining PR70s out there that have never been submitted??
While many of us may view NGC grading as less stringent than PCGS the fact remains at least some of the current NGC PR70 coins should cross. If you say no then you are in denial.
A more serious question to consider is whether rarity begets rarity.............Would it be harder to now score a PR70 simply because market price is so high and graders reccognize any newly graded examples will move market. ?
I don't know NGCs pops since I am not a full member. >>
............................................................................................................................................................................................. A pretty good sample size. 2,000 graded by PCGS out of a universe of 30,000
2 out of 1,976 graded PR70
So appox. 1/1000 submitted scored PR70
Even allowing for prescreening before submission and adjusting for resubmissions I would estimate that using PCGS standards there should be between 15 and 45 total 1995-W ASEs out of 30,000 minted that should score PR70.
The fact that only 2 PR70s have been graded by PCGS is largely a reflection of the fact that PCGS has graded only 1/15th of the total mintage.
We shouldn't forget there are likely 13-43 more examples out there that PCGS has never seen.
Whether they rest in OGP, ANACS or NGC slabs doesn't change the fact that they almost certainly exist.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
While some may scoff certainly some of the NGC PR70s are of equal quality and there are almost certainly many more 1995-W ASE PR70 that have never been submitted.
As I believe David Hall once pointed out...........reported populations frequently rise and virtually never fall.
The teletrade offered price is pure ego driven and IMO stupid money.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
15 year old coin in original government packaging exposed and not slabbed even in intercept shielding, I would think these PCGS 70s would be hard to come by. I even doubt PCGS will even cross a NGC 70 which can be had for 10-15K now. >>
Your statements open some areas for serious discussion.
To the best of my knowledge the OGP is just as safe a way to keep ASE proof as a PCGS slab. Some have suggested OGP may even be superior.
What is total population of NGC and PCGS graded 1995-W ASEs?? What fraction of total universe of 30,000 are represented?? How or why would we assume there are not proportionally as many remaining PR70s out there that have never been submitted??
While many of us may view NGC grading as less stringent than PCGS the fact remains at least some of the current NGC PR70 coins should cross. If you say no then you are in denial.
A more serious question to consider is whether rarity begets rarity.............Would it be harder to now score a PR70 simply because market price is so high and graders reccognize any newly graded examples will move market. ? >>
Based on conversations with experts on coin storage/preservation I've learned the following:
As we all know, silver and copper are reactive metals, gold less so and platinum essentially non-reactive. Over time, when stored in OGP, esp. with the COA, the paper in both will off-gas sulfur and other reactive compounds which will adversely effect coins.
The paper in NGC and PCGS slabs it totally archival, non-reactive and non-"off-gassing". However, the slabs are not air-tight. So, the coins in the slabs, if stored along with "important papers", etc. as many are, can also suffer from off-gassing from the paper, cardboard, etc. that it's stored with. The safest way to store slabs is in IS boxes in a controlled environment.
The safest way to store coins that you wish to keep in OGP is to store the coins in their capsules - and only the coins in capsules, no COA, etc., in IS boxes and to reunite them with the rest of the OGP when you want to enjoy them or sell them.
Unfortunately, some OGP such as that with the Lincoln penny sets from last year, etc. contain reactive materials in the proof and unc. set lenses. So, even if you store the lenses in IS boxes, over time the coins will react with the products of off-gassing from the OGP filler in which the coins are mounted in the lenses. Hard to win with these unless you remove the pennies and other coins, store them in Saf-Flips, and only put them back in the original lens when you wish - a real pain.
On the subject of flips, I've been informed by experts that many flips/currency holders which are advertised as "archival" are actually not archival. Saf-flips are truly archival. The softer flips, even when advertised as archival are not.
(P.S.: I can see the comments coming to the effect that the safest way to store coins is with one's Glock, HK, Sig, S&W, etc. I'm speaking of safety from corrosion and not from bandits - which is also very important to be sure!!)
Heck, I figured they were bubbling around 6 mos. ago when the raw sets reached $5000, but this has become a Bubble Bath Ms..
I do believe, correct me if I am wrong, that this series in 2008 has shown the greatest price differential for the First Strike Label over the nons in the history of FS?
Absolutely unreal. Just incredible. Also incredible is the premium of PCGS over NGC and the FS premium. Years down the line will the PCGS vs. NGC premium last? Who knows. I really doubt that that FS premium (the highest ever I agree with Miles) will be so high. At these prices, if I had PCGS FS Buffs. I'd definitely be a sellin'
From a July 2008 ad which was emailed to me that I sooooooooo wish that I'd taken advangage of.....just look at the appreciation of the $5 DCAM FS (not that the other's aren't beyond belief as well).
2008-W 4 Piece Set Proof Buffalo PCGS PR69 DCAM First Strike – $2275
I do believe, correct me if I am wrong, that this series in 2008 has shown the greatest price differential for the First Strike Label over the nons in the history of FS?
Miles
I must admit, it seems a bit frothy.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I just hope that when sanity inevitably returns and the FS bubble busts...or significantly deflates...it doesn't also collaterally damage the prices of the raw coins/sets!
Interestingly, many would likely choose to go back in time less than 2 years rather than 20-50 years to re-secure their ideal 'deal of the century', Raufus!
Other than the once in a series oppurtunity to purchase fractionals, what in name of sanity is driving these prices so stratospheric??
Might this be "The Big One" HRH speaks of??
I heard one very sage individual on this forum describe, over the phone, this Fractional Buff Series as "The beach-front property of coins"...
I heard one very sage individual on this forum describe, over the phone, this Fractional Buff Series as "The beach-front property of coins"...
Miles
So, you don't think that it's a good time to sell, Miles? I had a couple of sets for sale and then pulled them. I started to think that it might be wise to wait as well.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I just hope that when sanity inevitably returns and the FS bubble busts...or significantly deflates...it doesn't also collaterally damage the prices of the raw coins/sets!
I wouldn't count on it. A rising tide lifts all boats; if the waters recede they all go down some. No doubt some of the price of raw sets reflects buyer hope of finding a few 70s.
My feeling is the same as most on this board-- the current huge premiums for the FS labels defy logic; I expect the spread between FS and non FS will shrink over time. FS could fall from current levels, or non-FS could increase, or maybe both happen and they meet someplace in between.
That said, anyone paying huge premiums for FS coins in this market will surely hold, not sell, into a decline. In the short run a FS price drop will be met by a fall in supply, and there will be a period of market standoff while buyers and sellers wait to see who blinks first. On top of that, any FS buyer at these levels is almost certainly doing so as a long term hold, not a flip, and presumably have deep enough pockets to hang on for awhile.
I still consider this my most prophetic thread..........(Fractionals were all still for sale at time thread was started.) Thread Title: Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners??
no question, you hit the nail on the head that time.
I did the same as you; hedged my bet by buying both, but looking back, I wish I had reversed my positions! Unfortunately, by the time Buffalo golds looked like a good opportunity, I had already backed up the truck on platinum.
I recently reviewed my orders from October 20 to October 23, 2008, and I doubt I'll ever go on a feeding frenzy like that again. If coin collectors had a trading floor, October 20 2008 would have looked something like this:
<< <i>I still consider this my most prophetic thread..........(Fractionals were all still for sale at time thread was started.) Thread Title: Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners??
no question, you hit the nail on the head that time.
I did the same as you; hedged my bet by buying both, but looking back, I wish I had reversed my positions! Unfortunately, by the time Buffalo golds looked like a good opportunity, I had already backed up the truck on platinum.
I recently reviewed my orders from October 20 to October 23, 2008, and I doubt I'll ever go on a feeding frenzy like that again.
Reply:
I agree nycounsel as I too went for the gold and platinum via the F-150 in 2008 and have not lived to regret the decision, yet. Nothing like I have before or after!
As far as selling at the peak jmski, I wish I knew. My perceived peak on the 2008 Buffs already came, went, and kept on going....
The corresponding mintages for 100 Pound Britannias;
90 - 262 This does not look correct. 91 - 143 This does not look correct. 92 - 500 93 - 500 94 - 500 95 - 500 96 - 2500
I looked into this years ago and I think you will find 90 and 91 cert numbers higher than the listed values. I called around and came to the conclusion that the numbers were bad. Don't know what the correct ones were though.
Based on the low sales of the 2008 and 2006 plat sales on Ebay I wonder what happened to all the plat collectors? Are people leaving the plat series? Are the fractionals now considered orphaned series?
I would have expected the 2008 proof plats to do better than this based on the 2004 prices, and the 2008 and 2006 plat unc either have higher actual mintages or the market has died.
The buffalo gold is the modern equivalent of the old indian head gold. Since the modern coins have lower mintages than the old coins I think it is easy to see why they have gone up so high and probably won't be coming back down.
Are some classic gold collectors the ones running up the prices on the First Strike coins? Secretly it wouldn't surprise me.
Something is fishy here but I like the gold buffalo prices and think the raw prices are still low. I expect the 1 ouncers to hit $5000 raw eventually, may take a year or three or more, and the others to rise as well. I see very few 1/4 proof buffalos selling, those seem to be the ones people hold no matter what.
I spoke with a collector at length yesterday who wanted me to buy for him a PCGS-PR70DCAM $50 Gold Eagle with more than a 400,000+ mintage. I asked him if he was aware of some of the $100 PR70DCAM Plat Eagles that sell for close to the same price level, but have sub-10,000 mintages(!!!) and about $1,600 in metal in them instead of less than $1,150 worth of metal. He assessed the situation carefully and concluded that he still wanted the Proof Gold coin.
IT WILL OBVIOUSLY TAKE TIME FOR THE PLATINUM COINS TO "CATCH ON".
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Does everyone remember the Sunday night when the 4 coin Platinum proof sets went black?
I think it took less than 48 hours to clean out all of the other 2008-W platinum proof offerings.
In the last few days there has been another thread asking for your favorite numismatic year.
I said 2008!! >>
December 8 is when most of the proof platinum offerings went dark. I remember because Goldbully and I were carrying on a dialogue on another thread. As the Temptations would say, "that day I'll always remember, yes I will, cause that was the day the platinums went dark".
Comments
<< <i>"The teletrade sale price was pure ego driven and IMO stupid money."
What TT sales price? Last I had heard the coin never sold?
Wondercoin >>
Poor wording....meant to say offered price.
The NGC numbers for the 2008-W $10 Buff Unc. are as follows:
Early Releases: 2,018 (409 in MS69; 1,609 in MS70)
Non Early Releases: 1,127 (2 in MS68; 136 in MS69; 989 in MS70)
And I happen to own one of those 68s (got it cheap) for what's its worth...being a counter-trend type of guy!
lol... just thinking out loud here.
3 bidders over $6,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260559587437&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
and this non fs MS 70 set sold for: $8325 ....
MS70 set
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Looks like I might have to break my boycott of ebay and cough up the 10% fees in order to sell some stuff. BST isn't working, and it sure looks like ebay is.
Please don't .... I like less competition......
Well, that is the question, isn't it? I would expect that most "saavy buyers" who lurk on BST have an established customer base, and that they *might* have a potential buyer who doesn't necessarily buy off of ebay.
I don't mind paying the 10% to someone who has earned it by working to service his own customer base.
Anyone who sells on BST to an ebay vendor is most likely taking an immediate 20% haircut - 10% for ebay fees, and 10% to the ebay vendor who buys off BST and then turns around and sells the same item on ebay. Not very efficient, from a seller's perspective.
If a set is as hot as the Gold Buffs, you are right - you really don't have to look too far to find a solid buyer. Somehow, I think that is more the exception than the rule.
I knew it would happen.
Wondercoin
<< <i>WOW! $1,450 for a 1999W $10 ICG-70 on TT! It's still early. >>
I bet you a can of pop it doesn't sell.
<< <i>f a set is as hot as the Gold Buffs, you are right - you really don't have to look too far to find a solid buyer. Somehow, I think that is more the exception than the rule. >>
That's why you won't get the best price, by a longshot, if you're trying to sell the 2008 buffs on the BST.
<< <i>
<< <i>WOW! $1,450 for a 1999W $10 ICG-70 on TT! It's still early. >>
I bet you a can of pop it doesn't sell.
With an hour left, up to $1,800.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>WOW! $1,450 for a 1999W $10 ICG-70 on TT! It's still early. >>
I bet you a can of pop it doesn't sell.
With an hour left, up to $1,800. >>
Sellers are allowed to bid on their own items & it was looking like that was what was happening and, most likely, why it didn't sell.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
While some may scoff certainly some of the NGC PR70s are of equal quality and there are almost certainly many more 1995-W ASE PR70 that have never been submitted.
As I believe David Hall once pointed out...........reported populations frequently rise and virtually never fall.
The teletrade offered price is pure ego driven and IMO stupid money.
Now on ebay for $170,000 PCGS PR70DCAM 1995 W
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
15 year old coin in original government packaging exposed and not slabbed even in intercept shielding, I would think these PCGS 70s would be hard to come by. I even doubt PCGS will even cross a NGC 70 which can be had for 10-15K now.
Box of 20
Box of 20
<< <i>ne comment on the 1995-W ASE proof sale.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
While some may scoff certainly some of the NGC PR70s are of equal quality and there are almost certainly many more 1995-W ASE PR70 that have never been submitted.
As I believe David Hall once pointed out...........reported populations frequently rise and virtually never fall.
The teletrade offered price is pure ego driven and IMO stupid money.
Now on ebay for $170,000 PCGS PR70DCAM 1995 W
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
15 year old coin in original government packaging exposed and not slabbed even in intercept shielding, I would think these PCGS 70s would be hard to come by. I even doubt PCGS will even cross a NGC 70 which can be had for 10-15K now. >>
Your statements open some areas for serious discussion.
To the best of my knowledge the OGP is just as safe a way to keep ASE proof as a PCGS slab.
Some have suggested OGP may even be superior.
What is total population of NGC and PCGS graded 1995-W ASEs??
What fraction of total universe of 30,000 are represented??
How or why would we assume there are not proportionally as many remaining PR70s out there that have never been submitted??
While many of us may view NGC grading as less stringent than PCGS the fact remains at least some of the current NGC PR70 coins should cross. If you say no then you are in denial.
A more serious question to consider is whether rarity begets rarity.............Would it be harder to now score a PR70 simply because market price is so high and graders reccognize any newly graded examples will move market. ?
total
9887 1995-W $1 Eagle PRDC 1 2 12 30 55 151 432 1,291 2 1,976
I don't know NGCs pops since I am not a full member.
Box of 20
<< <i>PCGS Pop Report
total
9887 1995-W $1 Eagle PRDC 1 2 12 30 55 151 432 1,291 2 1,976
I don't know NGCs pops since I am not a full member. >>
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
A pretty good sample size. 2,000 graded by PCGS out of a universe of 30,000
2 out of 1,976 graded PR70
So appox. 1/1000 submitted scored PR70
Even allowing for prescreening before submission and adjusting for resubmissions I would estimate that using PCGS standards there should be between 15 and 45 total 1995-W ASEs out of 30,000 minted that should score PR70.
The fact that only 2 PR70s have been graded by PCGS is largely a reflection of the fact that PCGS has graded only 1/15th of the total mintage.
We shouldn't forget there are likely 13-43 more examples out there that PCGS has never seen.
Whether they rest in OGP, ANACS or NGC slabs doesn't change the fact that they almost certainly exist.
PrAg PrAg*
62 1 62* 0
63 0 63* 0
64 3 64* 0
65 3 65* 0
66 13 66* 0
67 39 67* 0
68 89 68* 0
69 1795 69* 0
70 173
<< <i>
<< <i>ne comment on the 1995-W ASE proof sale.
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
While some may scoff certainly some of the NGC PR70s are of equal quality and there are almost certainly many more 1995-W ASE PR70 that have never been submitted.
As I believe David Hall once pointed out...........reported populations frequently rise and virtually never fall.
The teletrade offered price is pure ego driven and IMO stupid money.
Now on ebay for $170,000 PCGS PR70DCAM 1995 W
While PCGS population report shows only 2-3 at that grade that hardly means only 2-3 such coins exist.
15 year old coin in original government packaging exposed and not slabbed even in intercept shielding, I would think these PCGS 70s would be hard to come by. I even doubt PCGS will even cross a NGC 70 which can be had for 10-15K now. >>
Your statements open some areas for serious discussion.
To the best of my knowledge the OGP is just as safe a way to keep ASE proof as a PCGS slab.
Some have suggested OGP may even be superior.
What is total population of NGC and PCGS graded 1995-W ASEs??
What fraction of total universe of 30,000 are represented??
How or why would we assume there are not proportionally as many remaining PR70s out there that have never been submitted??
While many of us may view NGC grading as less stringent than PCGS the fact remains at least some of the current NGC PR70 coins should cross. If you say no then you are in denial.
A more serious question to consider is whether rarity begets rarity.............Would it be harder to now score a PR70 simply because market price is so high and graders reccognize any newly graded examples will move market. ? >>
Based on conversations with experts on coin storage/preservation I've learned the following:
As we all know, silver and copper are reactive metals, gold less so and platinum essentially non-reactive. Over time, when stored in OGP, esp. with the COA, the paper in both will off-gas sulfur and other reactive compounds which will adversely effect coins.
The paper in NGC and PCGS slabs it totally archival, non-reactive and non-"off-gassing". However, the slabs are not air-tight. So, the coins in the slabs, if stored along with "important papers", etc. as many are, can also suffer from off-gassing from the paper, cardboard, etc. that it's stored with. The safest way to store slabs is in IS boxes in a controlled environment.
The safest way to store coins that you wish to keep in OGP is to store the coins in their capsules - and only the coins in capsules, no COA, etc., in IS boxes and to reunite them with the rest of the OGP when you want to enjoy them or sell them.
Unfortunately, some OGP such as that with the Lincoln penny sets from last year, etc. contain reactive materials in the proof and unc. set lenses. So, even if you store the lenses in IS boxes, over time the coins will react with the products of off-gassing from the OGP filler in which the coins are mounted in the lenses. Hard to win with these unless you remove the pennies and other coins, store them in Saf-Flips, and only put them back in the original lens when you wish - a real pain.
On the subject of flips, I've been informed by experts that many flips/currency holders which are advertised as "archival" are actually not archival. Saf-flips are truly archival. The softer flips, even when advertised as archival are not.
(P.S.: I can see the comments coming to the effect that the safest way to store coins is with one's Glock, HK, Sig, S&W, etc. I'm speaking of safety from corrosion and not from bandits - which is also very important to be sure!!)
Miles
<< <i>OK, A New Level of Crazy! >>
It's the speed of the run up and things like this that have me saying "bubble."
It can't be all supply and demand.
(I think I'd rather have the two ounces of 2009W Plat. plus some cash)
I do believe, correct me if I am wrong, that this series in 2008 has shown the greatest price differential for the First Strike Label over the nons in the history of FS?
Miles
<< <i>OK, A New Level of Crazy!
Miles >>
Miles........OMG!!!!!!!!!! Crazy!!!! Thanks for the link!!!!
Love you!!!
From a July 2008 ad which was emailed to me that I sooooooooo wish that I'd taken advangage of.....just look at the appreciation of the $5 DCAM FS (not that the other's aren't beyond belief as well).
2008-W 4 Piece Set Proof Buffalo PCGS PR69 DCAM First Strike – $2275
2008-W $50 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR69 DCAM First Strike – $1225
2008-W $25 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR69 DCAM First Strike - $640
2008-W $10 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR69 DCAM First Strike - $340
2008-W $5 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR69 DCAM First Strike - $175
2008-W 4 Piece Set Proof Buffalo PCGS PR70 DCAM First Strike – $3450
2008-W $50 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR70 DCAM First Strike – $1875
2008-W $25 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR70 DCAM First Strike - $950
2008-W $10 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR70 DCAM First Strike - $550
2008-W $5 Proof Buffalo PCGS PR70 DCAM First Strike - $325
2008-W 4 Piece Set Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS69 First Strike - $1995
2008-W $50 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS69 First Strike - $1075
2008-W $25 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS69 First Strike - $550
2008-W $10 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS69 First Strike - $299
2008-W $5 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS69 First Strike - $150
2008-W 4 Piece Set Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS70 First Strike - $3050
2008-W $50 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS70 First Strike - $1700
2008-W $25 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS70 First Strike - $875
2008-W $10 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS70 First Strike - $475
2008-W $5 Burnished Uncirculated Buffalo PCGS MS70 First Strike - $295
Sorry to bother. I just wanted to double check with you on the Britannia mintages.
The Standard Catalogue of World Coins states mintages for 50 Pound Britannias as follows;
90 - 527
91 - 509
92 - 500
93 - 462
94 - 435
95 - 500
96 - 483
The corresponding mintages for 100 Pound Britannias;
90 - 262
91 - 143
92 - 500
93 - 500
94 - 500
95 - 500
96 - 2500
So if we are talking about the "KEY" 100 Pound (1oz) Britannia, should we not be collecting 91?
Or maybe Krause is wrong and taxfreegold is correct?
JCoin
JCoin
<< <i>OK, A New Level of Crazy!
Miles >>
....................................................................................................................................................................
Just nuts.
Miles
I must admit, it seems a bit frothy.
I knew it would happen.
Wow, almost to the point of ... free New Car, or keep buffalos?
Don't be too quick to discount the possibility.
People have been tempted by far less.................
I just hope that when sanity inevitably returns and the FS bubble busts...or significantly deflates...it doesn't also collaterally damage the prices of the raw coins/sets!
Other than the once in a series oppurtunity to purchase fractionals, what in name of sanity is driving these prices so stratospheric??
Might this be "The Big One" HRH speaks of??
I heard one very sage individual on this forum describe, over the phone, this Fractional Buff Series as "The beach-front property of coins"...
Miles
Miles
So, you don't think that it's a good time to sell, Miles? I had a couple of sets for sale and then pulled them. I started to think that it might be wise to wait as well.
I knew it would happen.
Thread Title: Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners??
Created On Saturday November 15, 2008 11:19 AM
Mintages...............I'd bet 10,000 plus counting 4 coin sets.
Now actually I don't think that is too high to preclude significant price appreciation.
It is a beautiful classic design..........Consider the Buffalo silver dollar as a guide to just how important design and eye appeal is to value.
While the mintage is 3-4X some of the 2006-2008 Platinums I would point out there are 20-50X as many gold as platinum collectors.
1 year of production........
I can easily see a new collector walking through a show in 3-5 years seeing a fractional gold buffalo and wanting it regardless of mintage.
Disclaimer.............I've ordered both 2008 Platinum and Gold Buffalo but I actually feel better about the Buffalos!!!
I wouldn't count on it. A rising tide lifts all boats; if the waters recede they all go down some. No doubt some of the price of raw sets reflects buyer hope of finding a few 70s.
My feeling is the same as most on this board-- the current huge premiums for the FS labels defy logic; I expect the spread between FS and non FS will shrink over time. FS could fall from current levels, or non-FS could increase, or maybe both happen and they meet someplace in between.
That said, anyone paying huge premiums for FS coins in this market will surely hold, not sell, into a decline. In the short run a FS price drop will be met by a fall in supply, and there will be a period of market standoff while buyers and sellers wait to see who blinks first. On top of that, any FS buyer at these levels is almost certainly doing so as a long term hold, not a flip, and presumably have deep enough pockets to hang on for awhile.
no question, you hit the nail on the head that time.
I did the same as you; hedged my bet by buying both, but looking back, I wish I had reversed my positions! Unfortunately, by the time Buffalo golds looked like a good opportunity, I had already backed up the truck on platinum.
I recently reviewed my orders from October 20 to October 23, 2008, and I doubt I'll ever go on a feeding frenzy like that again. If coin collectors had a trading floor, October 20 2008 would have looked something like this:
Does everyone remember the Sunday night when the 4 coin Platinum proof sets went black?
I think it took less than 48 hours to clean out all of the other 2008-W platinum proof offerings.
In the last few days there has been another thread asking for your favorite numismatic year.
I said 2008!!
Beachfront property is great...until a hurricane rolls up the coast!!!
<< <i>I still consider this my most prophetic thread..........(Fractionals were all still for sale at time thread was started.) Thread Title: Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners??
no question, you hit the nail on the head that time.
I did the same as you; hedged my bet by buying both, but looking back, I wish I had reversed my positions! Unfortunately, by the time Buffalo golds looked like a good opportunity, I had already backed up the truck on platinum.
I recently reviewed my orders from October 20 to October 23, 2008, and I doubt I'll ever go on a feeding frenzy like that again.
Reply:
I agree nycounsel as I too went for the gold and platinum via the F-150 in 2008 and have not lived to regret the decision, yet. Nothing like I have before or after!
As far as selling at the peak jmski, I wish I knew. My perceived peak on the 2008 Buffs already came, went, and kept on going....
Miles
<< <i>Hi Eric!
Sorry to bother. I just wanted to double check with you on the Britannia mintages.
The Standard Catalogue of World Coins states mintages for 50 Pound Britannias as follows;
90 - 527
91 - 509
92 - 500
93 - 462
94 - 435
95 - 500
96 - 483
Answer: This looks correct to me.
The corresponding mintages for 100 Pound Britannias;
90 - 262 This does not look correct.
91 - 143 This does not look correct.
92 - 500
93 - 500
94 - 500
95 - 500
96 - 2500
I looked into this years ago and I think you will find 90 and 91 cert numbers higher than the listed values. I called around and came to the conclusion that the numbers were bad. Don't know what the correct ones were though.
Eric
I would have expected the 2008 proof plats to do better than this based on the 2004 prices, and the 2008 and 2006 plat unc either have higher actual mintages or the market has died.
The buffalo gold is the modern equivalent of the old indian head gold. Since the modern coins have lower mintages than the old coins I think it is easy to see why they have gone up so high and probably won't be coming back down.
Are some classic gold collectors the ones running up the prices on the First Strike coins? Secretly it wouldn't surprise me.
Something is fishy here but I like the gold buffalo prices and think the raw prices are still low. I expect the 1 ouncers to hit $5000 raw eventually, may take a year or three or more, and the others to rise as well. I see very few 1/4 proof buffalos selling, those seem to be the ones people hold no matter what.
IT WILL OBVIOUSLY TAKE TIME FOR THE PLATINUM COINS TO "CATCH ON".
Wondercoin
<< <i>That picture is great.
Does everyone remember the Sunday night when the 4 coin Platinum proof sets went black?
I think it took less than 48 hours to clean out all of the other 2008-W platinum proof offerings.
In the last few days there has been another thread asking for your favorite numismatic year.
I said 2008!! >>
December 8 is when most of the proof platinum offerings went dark. I remember because Goldbully and I were carrying on a dialogue on another thread. As the Temptations would say, "that day I'll always remember, yes I will, cause that was the day the platinums went dark".
[corrected as my recollection is getting foggy]