And, again, take my Liberty Nickel pattern set... I am the #1 registered set and there is no #2 (after 5+ years I am still the only registered set). Which is why coins in my set with a mintage of less than 50... repeat sub-50 can be purchased 125 years later for less money than a 2008-W $50 proof Buffalo!! DEMAND drives it all and supercedes mintage figures alone IMHO.
Wondercoin
P.S. Of course, there are non-registered collections nicer than mine. My point only referred to the notion that a 2,250-2,500 mintage was amazingly low.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
We both can quote so many absolute small mintages of classics, proof type, etc., that have performed poorly for many reasons - some of them are linked to demand and some are not.
When you have a modern collectible series, with precious metal content, where it is short and very collectible with a recognizable theme, and add absolutely minute mintages where it includes the KEY dates or every denomination.........what else is there to want.
Buy now or be sorry.
For all of those buying labels (which I know is popular - but I just cant bring myself to pay the premiums) just think of paying $17,000 for a FS 08-W Buff Gold Proof Set (70), but passing on a $8,000 FS 08-W Plat Unc Set (70); where the Buff Proofs Sets availble number many multiples the amt of sets the Unc Plats do.....
<< <i>just think of paying $17,000 for a FS 08-W Buff Gold Proof Set (70), but passing on a $8,000 FS 08-W Plat Unc Set (70); where the Buff Proofs Sets availble number many multiples the amt of sets the Unc Plats do..... >>
This is where the Buff Proof collectors available number many multiples the amt of collectors the Unc Plats do.....
<< <i>Eric, Quick Question: do you earn more from your book if I order at certain outlets? Let me/us know. Publishing is notorious for "deep discounts" that all but eliminate any profit for the author, and I just want to make sure you're getting your fair royalty. Amazon is also a notorious place for so-called "reviewers" to dump their free book samples--again killing the rightful earnings of the author.
Grits,
Thank you very much for your concern but I am not worried about royalties on the text. They pay me about 70 cents a copy on every one sold and they are making 8,000 copies. I have well over 1000 hours in the project over more than two years plus several thousand dollars just developing the one off multi-coin slabs photos in the text so no matter how you cut it the return on labor is almost non existent. What is important is that we use this opportunity to demonstrate the awesome collecting opportunity that these great modern series present in our lifetime.
KP is going to sell these books through the "trade" like Borders, Waldens, Amazon etc. I as the author can buy them in bulk at the same price they wholesale them in bulk to the big venues and plan to do so. They still have not told me exactly what that bulk price is yet but they will soon. I plan to sell them in bulk at about cost to those of you that want them so you can use them to show others some of the reasons you like this area of collecting. I also am developing a group of Buy it Now adds for Ebay with the option to buy the book at full $22 price plus freight but will mention that Amazon offers the text cheaper and that interested collectors can visit us here on the big PCGS moderns thread.
Guys when you put up Ebay auctions why not mention at the bottom our new book and suggest that the customers that like moderns order a copy. If everyone that reads the boards would do that we just might be able to speed up the revolution that's underway in the coin world.
Let's not forget that the gold spouse mintages are getting awfully close to these precious platinum numbers and those spouse coins aren't exactly burning up with demand either. It is more than just the numbers, but I guess it will take a long time to see how this plays out.
There is an example 7/8 of a modern that has a massive price disconnect with the mintage numbers but I won't bore you with the details. If you believe in the numbers from the mint then by all means jump on in, all I am saying is it is not always about the numbers. Surviving numbers matter as much as published numbers, the thing is I doubt any 2008 w unc plats have been melted yet but some 2006 w unc certainly were.
Just from my own observation the proof plats are far more attractive than the unc plats, they have a mirror field and are much brighter to look at. They are an easier set to understand, however at this point the mint is orphaning the fractional coins.
The mint may still make more platinum bullion coins that could mess up that series.
At least the gold buffalo fractionals are a done deal, Moy has said he won't bring back any classic designs. That is why they shifted the plat proof to the more modern design.
And eventually the plats will do well if more people starting collecting them. I just hope people don't expect to find any at the local coin dealer. The gold buffalos though need no explanation, they speak for themselves in price and appearance.
I think you have to be more concerned about the Buff fractionals coming back rather than the Plats....
The USM nixed plans for several "mutli-coin" collector sets involving the fractional buffalo's in 07 and 08, all with the W mintmark. Those plans could be easily dusted off and put into place for a future year.
No doubt the Buffalo design is very popular, and with popularity comes re-striking at some later date, dont be so sure they wont be issued again.
I dont know what you mean by the Proof Plats being easier? to understand...? That statement doesnt make much sense.
I do know what is very easy to understand, the delicate proof surfaces becoming cloudy and toned, which is absolutely taboo to most collectors of proof coins. Buy them and hold them at your own risk, make sure the environment you store them in is absolutely dry and temp controlled, and even then those delicate surfaces might be marred should the errant fingerprint of the supposidly gloved mint employee......
I think a three year series of the lowest mintages in each denomination is enough to drive the unc plats, once the fire catches, watch out.
"At least the gold buffalo fractionals are a done deal, Moy has said he won't bring back any classic designs."
Half I noticed you said this before and I did not comment on it but you are not taking Moy's comments in context. The question he was asked was not about producing or not producing fractionals of existing series and designs. The questions were about new designs that would see production. The Buffalo design is in production now. I hope the buffs go out without any more fractionals coming to market but dont think that its not a possibility.
The Mint has made it very clear that they do not wish to mess with low volume high cost items anymore. Do you think the marketing people at the Mint cant figure out for example that if they get a little extra gold planchet capacity in the next couple years that they can't strike bullion buffalo fractionals for 5% over melt like the bullion gold eagles and sell them by the hundreds of thousands to their primary distributors in no time? The Mint has dumped the burnished W mint marked unfinished proof die runs in all denominations that did not sell well because it was too expensive, the volume was not there and they lost money when you count all their cost.
When they stop making buffalo gold I will feel safe about the fractional buffs I am holding. Until they kill the buffalo program certainty is not ours.
"Guys when you put up Ebay auctions why not mention at the bottom our new book and suggest that the customers that like moderns order a copy. If everyone that reads the boards would do that we just might be able to speed up the revolution that's underway in the coin world.
I've read the previous posts regarding spotting and ugly toning of modern proofs. I must have missed the previous posts on this, but this is the first that I've heard of this with respect to Buff proofs.
Have you all had problems with this? I read this thread religiously, but seem to have missed it.
Certainly keeping the coins in IS boxes, in a well-controlled environment would protect form outside contaminants, but obviously not a finger print or other surface contaminant.
I'd been planning to hold the '08 Buff proofs which I still have, given how much I regret selling a lot of them last year. If there is a real spotting/toning issue with the proofs, and given what they're going for now, I'd sell if future problems seemed likely.
As to plats., I thought that platinum was extremely non-reactive. Has this problem occurred with plat proofs as well?
7/8 - I sure hope that you're right about the plat uncs I've put a lot of coin into them. The 2008 W plat unc set $5100 sale is unexpected. They've seemed to have been bringing $4100 for a few weeks.
7/8 on the fingerprint issue, I hate to say it but I doubt those come from mint employees. If you watched the show "Secrets of the US Mint" it shows the striking of the platinum coins and how they are placed into holders. The mint employee uses a tong to lift the coin out of the press, not their fingers.
Then the coins are inspected before they seal them in the capsules. Somewhere along the line after that, maybe in submitting or grading it happened.
On the mint redoing the buffalo fractionals, I think there is as much chance of that as them redoing the w unc gold eagles or w plat unc eagles. All three have been eliminated and if they bring something back then it would probably be the proof gold eagles, not the buffalo or w unc gold eagles.
The platinum bullion coins though are I think a different matter. I doubt the mint considers them the same as the burnished coins but who knows.
On the proofs being easy to understand, it is simple. 1 coin per year was made period. No confusion.
On the "bullion" plats you have 1 coin per year but also two coins a year 2006 to 2008. Most people that buy off of Ebay have no clue what burnished is so two coins in some years and 1 coin in other years is confusing. Will they only collect 1 or two? Someone even said the w unc are getting mixed in with the non W coins now. Confusing to those that don't follow them? I think yes.
The one thing we agree on though is the absolute low numbers made assuming the mintages are correct. I like the 1/2 unc MS70 2008 plat. But then look at the gold buffalo proofs. The 1/4 proof is selling for almost the same amount as the 1/2 proof. Strange? Maybe the buffalo nickle guys are buying into these secretly as I said, thus the demand for that size.
Anyway I am not sure what you are talking about with the cloudy and toned coins, I am not worried. I guess i should sell all my PR70 and MS70 coins and buy what?
Even if 10% went down as you claim that makes the remaining perfect coins that much more valuable. So take chances, take risk, that is what life is about. And no, I am not selling. In the future people that sold now IMO will feel like the ones that sold the gold buffalo fractionals last year. --Regretful--
If you were following along, I referred to the proofs with the hazing/cloudy mirrors, toning and or fingerprint issues.
As you are probably aware, those mirrored surfaces are far easier to mar than burnished unc "matte" surfaces. Nice promo video with cloth gloved hands.......hmmmm......what happens when the camera is turned off. Sorry, but i've received more than one bad proof coin in my life directly from the USM to think otherwise.
Better get to the bank box and check yours, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
Think what you want about the Buff fractionals, but as more and more people want those buffs, the more likely it becomes that a release of a special set of fractionals or fractionals in general will come to pass.
Keep telling your self they wont do it. Maybe they wont. Close your eyes and click your heels three times. Maybe it wont happen.
If you were following along, I referred to the proofs with the hazing/cloudy mirrors, toning and or fingerprint issues.
As you are probably aware, those mirrored surfaces are far easier to mar than burnished unc "matte" surfaces. Nice promo video with cloth gloved hands.......hmmmm......what happens when the camera is turned off. Sorry, but i've received more than one bad proof coin in my life directly from the USM to think otherwise.
Better get to the bank box and check yours, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
Think what you want about the Buff fractionals, but as more and more people want those buffs, the more likely it becomes that a release of a special set of fractionals or fractionals in general will come to pass.
Keep telling your self they wont do it. Maybe they wont. Close your eyes and click your heels three times. Maybe it wont happen. >>
....................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Nothing personal but your flaying against everything but 2008-Unc plats is sounding incresingly desperate. Just how many of the 2008-W $10 Unc plats do you hold??
I haven't seen any toned or spotted Buffs or Spouses, nor have I seen any marred Proof Plats? I've never seen a Plat of any kind tone.
I did however have an 1989 1/2 oz. AGE that was unblemished for about 18 years until being placed into PCGS MS-69 plastic. It then turned spotty and had toning smears all over it when I sent it in for spot review last week. To be continued...
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Eric Jordan's forthcoming book is available for advance orders at Amazon.com for the discounted price of $15.63, and if you order something else to increase the total to $25 or more, you can ask for free shipping. I already ordered.
I think I understand what you mean about the matte surface of the "W" MS APE's. They do seem "easier" to look at and examine regardless of type of light. If you pick up a Proof APE and look at it in different types of light and at varying angles it can become very taxing on the eye.........
Regarding FS holders...for some reason I feel the coins just look better in this type of packaging....must be the American Flag! Albeit, the prices are going abit crazy..........
Back when the fractional Buffaloes were announced, I assumed that they were intended to be collector versions of bullion fractional Buffs, similar to the "W" uncirculated AGEs. There were never any bullion fractional Buffs released, but the government could decide to strike them in the future without bringing the "W" Buffs back.
If this ever happens, I would expect the 2008-W fractional Buffs to become even more popular as the date keys to the uncirculated fractional series.
<< <i>Eric, Quick Question: do you earn more from your book if I order at certain outlets? Let me/us know. Publishing is notorious for "deep discounts" that all but eliminate any profit for the author, and I just want to make sure you're getting your fair royalty. Amazon is also a notorious place for so-called "reviewers" to dump their free book samples--again killing the rightful earnings of the author.
Grits,
Thank you very much for your concern but I am not worried about royalties on the text. They pay me about 70 cents a copy on every one sold and they are making 8,000 copies. I have well over 1000 hours in the project over more than two years plus several thousand dollars just developing the one off multi-coin slabs photos in the text so no matter how you cut it the return on labor is almost non existent. What is important is that we use this opportunity to demonstrate the awesome collecting opportunity that these great modern series present in our lifetime. Eric, KP is going to sell these books through the "trade" like Borders, Waldens, Amazon etc. I as the author can buy them in bulk at the same price they wholesale them in bulk to the big venues and plan to do so. They still have not told me exactly what that bulk price is yet but they will soon. I plan to sell them in bulk at about cost to those of you that want them so you can use them to show others some of the reasons you like this area of collecting. I also am developing a group of Buy it Now adds for Ebay with the option to buy the book at full $22 price plus freight but will mention that Amazon offers the text cheaper and that interested collectors can visit us here on the big PCGS moderns thread.
Guys when you put up Ebay auctions why not mention at the bottom our new book and suggest that the customers that like moderns order a copy. If everyone that reads the boards would do that we just might be able to speed up the revolution that's underway in the coin world.
Eric >>
Eric, congratulations on your new book. Coin collecting did not really take off until the Red Book came out in the 1940s, which really launched coin collecting as we know it in the 1950s. I think your new moderns book will go a long way to promoting wonderful coins such as the platinum series!
When I posted the link for Eric's book on Amazon, I noticed that his book was at #23 on the Amazon list of coin books. It is now at #17 so that indicates forum are probably buying the book and pushing it up the best seller list at amazon.
As several forum members noted, you get free shipping if your order is over $25.
whoever hasnt seen toning on any gold proof spouses, buffaloes or plat proofs hasnt been looking very closely at many coins.
LOTS, I mean LOTS of these coins have developed splotchy toning, cloudy mirrors (mainly on plat proofs) and spotting.
Not good for future appreciation at all.
As for "sounding desperate" - not a chance. Just stating facts. I've sold what I wanted to sell already.
I've held and am holding all of these issues. As for design - of couse I love the buffs. But I wont hold the proofs for reasons mentioned above. I've owned them and sold them promptly.
The UNC plats - 2006/2007/2008W are absolutely the rarest, in each denomination, lovely 3 year recognizable themed set. This set will take off, and all of you who failed to acquire them at very reasonable prices will be saying "remember when I could have bought......"
I told you so here, tonight, and I haven't been wrong many times.
If you choose to follow some individuals here, who were DEAD WRONG when it came to mintages not only on the plats but the buffs as well, go right ahead with the crowd of sheep.
I told you so here, tonight, and I haven't been wrong many times.
7/8 you have to be joking, anyone who has followed this must be chuckling right now. I won't waste our time going over it all, but even your claim on the one coin difference being a Key Coin fell flat.
Also i looked over the latest sales for 2008 plats and there have been way more listings of 2008 unc w plats vs. proof plats. If the 2008 w uncs are so rare you wouldn't expect to see this. Either many are unloading them or there are more than the mint published.
As a comparison some other modern coins with mintages of 3000 or less may appear 1 coin a month. The 2008 UNC w plat market is saturated by comparison.
BTW the prices for the buffalo coins have blown away the unc w plats by a wide margin, not sure how you can say otherwise. Anyone that bought the buffalos could sell today and buy twice as many plats if they wanted. Two wrongs don't make a right.
PCGS First Strike, but they are 69s and only the Jefferson is a FS PCGS PF 70. I stoppe collecting after the first year. I may collect this year's liberty and contemplating Mary Todd Lincoln.
You have been wrong on your predictions so many times, I dont know why you keep coming back for more......but then again this is a great sounding board for comments......everyone's entitled to their opinion.....
In some alternate reality I guess you are able to re-define key coin market concepts like that of a KEY DATE.
You have been proven wrong by the audited numbers on both the unc plats AND the proof buffaloes.
Look back a couple hundred posts. The numbers dont lie.
As another option, will accept --EVEN-- trade for 2008-W $10 1/4 oz Buffalo UNC/PRF Gold in OGP --or-- 2008-W $10 1/4 oz American Gold Eagle UNC in OGP --ONLY
I routinely trade, buy and sell many different issues.
And it is correct - and I did trade even for a few pieces.
Thats right - EVEN MONEY.....for 1/4 oz Buffaloes.......uuuggghhhh!!! that blows a hole in what you think the 1/4 buffs are worth...right?
Shall we pull out the Greysheet and tell you what the majority of dealers are paying? You must know that EBAY is a very thin market for these, right? Or do you?
This doesn't indicate in the least what I believe is the rarer of the issues. Only what was needed at the time to further trade on for other items.
And BTW, the post is when those coins were trading for $850-$900, not foolish auctions asking $1400+ which is waaay overblown.
Eric, congratulations on your new book. Coin collecting did not really take off until the Red Book came out in the 1940s, which really launched coin collecting as we know it in the 1950s. I think your new moderns book will go a long way to promoting wonderful coins such as the platinum series!
David Frohman >>
David I hope so for all of us. We are like a bunch of neighborhood kids that have a big field the Mint gave us and we like to play but we didnt have a ball. So I went in the basement with a couple of other kids and we made the best foot ball we could. The ball has been thrown into our midst and its up to each of us to play our part to help move it down the field regardless of our size.
I am going to write some buy it now Ebay adds. If we can welcome buyers of silver proof quarters, silver, gold and platinum eagle collectors and buffalo collectors etc to the monster PCGS moderns thread and at the same time we introduce them to KPs book we may really get to see first hand the kind of growth David is talking about. Go forth and conquer guys in your own way.
Hope so,
Eric
PS: We are like a bunch of neighborhood kids that like to fight amoung ourselves from time to time too. :-) LOLOLOL
7/8 you said to sell the gold buffalo many months ago, when prices were much much lower. You have been saying that ever since even as the prices have continued to rise to what they are today.
You have also been saying to BUY the 2008 w unc plats because they are the greatest coins. Yet here you are trying to get OUT of those and back IN to gold buffalos just two months ago when you were saying to sell.
You don't see the conflict in that?
Anyway that BST post says it all, I need not say more. Really I purchased the coins I wanted and you won't find a post from me selling the gold buffalos and begging to trade for w unc plats.
Firstly, if the Gold Buffs are in a bubble, we may never know it because the dollar is going to get trashed so badly that Gold Buffs will be rising quickly, but so will every other precious metal coin, collectible or not.
A second comment, jmski's current valuations based on ebay histories are:
1/4 oz. Unc. Gold Buff in OGP, PCGS MS-69 or equivalent: $1,200 to $1,400.
1/4 oz. Proof Gold Buff in OGP, PCGS MS-69 or equivalent: $1,200 to $1,500.
1/4 oz. Burnished "W" Plat in OGP, PCGS MS-69 or equivalent: $800 to $900.
I don't see the value in hyping what might happen, or what ought to happen. The market is the market.
The most recent Gold Buff Satin 1 oz. to sell on ebay went for $4,050 and the one just prior to it went for $2,920. Looks like a hot issue to me. Not just red-hot, but "super nova white"- hot or even "blue dwarf" hot - but what do I know?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
i have been a victim of the tech wreck bubble in 2000 because I believed Lucent was the greatest. I read, listen and move more carefully now. Thats why I have most of all that we post about here. I just wish I could look at them more often.
Does Intercept shield help protect the coins?
I of course will never sell, drop dead one day and my kids won't have a clue what to do.
Thats my next project, bringing my son into the fold.
He's only 12 but loves silver. NOT GOLD.
Maybe I can get him into plats.
advice is always appreciated.
I march to a different drummer.
Ships are safe in harbor but thats not what ships were built for.
When I sell coins, sometimes I like to throw in a token coin as an unexpected extra to foster goodwill with the buyer. It seems that Eric's book would be an ideal thing to include as an extra with a major purchase. Good way to spread the word.
So far, it seems to. I have had a couple of 2000-P Goodacres and a few Proof Silver Eagles in PCGS plastic stored in Intercept Shield boxes now for about 4 years with no change. My storage conditions are dry, and a relatively stable temp.
bringing my son into the fold.
He's only 12 but loves silver. NOT GOLD.
Maybe I can get him into plats.
advice is always appreciated.
When I was maybe 10 or so, my Grandmother gave me two rolls of nickels. That went a very long way in helping me to appreciate coins. You might consider a roll of silver dimes and a roll of clad dimes together.
Then, a single 1/10 oz. AGE and a single 1/10 oz. Plat.
When I was a kid, my older friends down the block had a weighing scale (single pan balance) from a chemistry set, and we used it to weigh stuff. An accurate digital scale might be interesting for your son to see the differences in density between clad, silver, copper, gold and platinum coins of approximately the same size. The feel and weight of different coins can be interesting to a kid.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
Buy Rarity.
Keep telling yourselves that "there are soo many more collectors of those type so that's why the numbers dont matter"
or
"they look soo much better in proof so even though they arent the rarest, i'd rather own them"
and before long.....the house of cards will come down.....
you will have a large loss on your hands.
Wondercoin
P.S. Of course, there are non-registered collections nicer than mine. My point only referred to the notion that a 2,250-2,500 mintage was amazingly low.
We both can quote so many absolute small mintages of classics, proof type, etc., that have performed poorly for many reasons - some of them are linked to demand and some are not.
When you have a modern collectible series, with precious metal content, where it is short and very collectible with a recognizable theme, and add absolutely minute mintages where it includes the KEY dates or every denomination.........what else is there to want.
Buy now or be sorry.
For all of those buying labels (which I know is popular - but I just cant bring myself to pay the premiums) just think of paying $17,000 for a FS 08-W Buff Gold Proof Set (70), but passing on a $8,000 FS 08-W Plat Unc Set (70); where the Buff Proofs Sets availble number many multiples the amt of sets the Unc Plats do.....
I just call it rediculous.
<< <i>just think of paying $17,000 for a FS 08-W Buff Gold Proof Set (70), but passing on a $8,000 FS 08-W Plat Unc Set (70); where the Buff Proofs Sets availble number many multiples the amt of sets the Unc Plats do..... >>
This is where the Buff Proof collectors available number many multiples the amt of collectors the Unc Plats do.....
<< <i>Eric,
Quick Question: do you earn more from your book if I order at certain outlets? Let me/us know. Publishing is notorious for "deep discounts" that all but eliminate any profit for the author, and I just want to make sure you're getting your fair royalty. Amazon is also a notorious place for so-called "reviewers" to dump their free book samples--again killing the rightful earnings of the author.
Grits,
Thank you very much for your concern but I am not worried about royalties on the text. They pay me about 70 cents a copy on every one sold and they are making 8,000 copies. I have well over 1000 hours in the project over more than two years plus several thousand dollars just developing the one off multi-coin slabs photos in the text so no matter how you cut it the return on labor is almost non existent. What is important is that we use this opportunity to demonstrate the awesome collecting opportunity that these great modern series present in our lifetime.
KP is going to sell these books through the "trade" like Borders, Waldens, Amazon etc. I as the author can buy them in bulk at the same price they wholesale them in bulk to the big venues and plan to do so. They still have not told me exactly what that bulk price is yet but they will soon. I plan to sell them in bulk at about cost to those of you that want them so you can use them to show others some of the reasons you like this area of collecting. I also am developing a group of Buy it Now adds for Ebay with the option to buy the book at full $22 price plus freight but will mention that Amazon offers the text cheaper and that interested collectors can visit us here on the big PCGS moderns thread.
Guys when you put up Ebay auctions why not mention at the bottom our new book and suggest that the customers that like moderns order a copy. If everyone that reads the boards would do that we just might be able to speed up the revolution that's underway in the coin world.
Eric
There is an example 7/8 of a modern that has a massive price disconnect with the mintage numbers but I won't bore you with the details. If you believe in the numbers from the mint then by all means jump on in, all I am saying is it is not always about the numbers. Surviving numbers matter as much as published numbers, the thing is I doubt any 2008 w unc plats have been melted yet but some 2006 w unc certainly were.
Just from my own observation the proof plats are far more attractive than the unc plats, they have a mirror field and are much brighter to look at. They are an easier set to understand, however at this point the mint is orphaning the fractional coins.
The mint may still make more platinum bullion coins that could mess up that series.
At least the gold buffalo fractionals are a done deal, Moy has said he won't bring back any classic designs. That is why they shifted the plat proof to the more modern design.
And eventually the plats will do well if more people starting collecting them. I just hope people don't expect to find any at the local coin dealer.
I think you have to be more concerned about the Buff fractionals coming back rather than the Plats....
The USM nixed plans for several "mutli-coin" collector sets involving the fractional buffalo's in 07 and 08, all with the W mintmark. Those plans could be easily dusted off and put into place for a future year.
No doubt the Buffalo design is very popular, and with popularity comes re-striking at some later date, dont be so sure they wont be issued again.
I dont know what you mean by the Proof Plats being easier? to understand...? That statement doesnt make much sense.
I do know what is very easy to understand, the delicate proof surfaces becoming cloudy and toned, which is absolutely taboo to most collectors of proof coins. Buy them and hold them at your own risk, make sure the environment you store them in is absolutely dry and temp controlled, and even then those delicate surfaces might be marred should the errant fingerprint of the supposidly gloved mint employee......
I think a three year series of the lowest mintages in each denomination is enough to drive the unc plats, once the fire catches, watch out.
"At least the gold buffalo fractionals are a done deal, Moy has said he won't bring back any classic designs."
Half I noticed you said this before and I did not comment on it but you are not taking Moy's comments in context. The question he was asked was not about producing or not producing fractionals of existing series and designs. The questions were about new designs that would see production. The Buffalo design is in production now. I hope the buffs go out without any more fractionals coming to market but dont think that its not a possibility.
The Mint has made it very clear that they do not wish to mess with low volume high cost items anymore. Do you think the marketing people at the Mint cant figure out for example that if they get a little extra gold planchet capacity in the next couple years that they can't strike bullion buffalo fractionals for 5% over melt like the bullion gold eagles and sell them by the hundreds of thousands to their primary distributors in no time? The Mint has dumped the burnished W mint marked unfinished proof die runs in all denominations that did not sell well because it was too expensive, the volume was not there and they lost money when you count all their cost.
When they stop making buffalo gold I will feel safe about the fractional buffs I am holding. Until they kill the buffalo program certainty is not ours.
Eric"
An EXCELLENT idea!!
Have you all had problems with this? I read this thread religiously, but seem to have missed it.
Certainly keeping the coins in IS boxes, in a well-controlled environment would protect form outside contaminants, but obviously not a finger print or other surface contaminant.
I'd been planning to hold the '08 Buff proofs which I still have, given how much I regret selling a lot of them last year. If there is a real spotting/toning issue with the proofs, and given what they're going for now, I'd sell if future problems seemed likely.
As to plats., I thought that platinum was extremely non-reactive. Has this problem occurred with plat proofs as well?
7/8 - I sure hope that you're right about the plat uncs I've put a lot of coin into them. The 2008 W plat unc set $5100 sale is unexpected. They've seemed to have been bringing $4100 for a few weeks.
Thanks for any info, Ron
Ive seen the same on Plat Proofs - cloudy mirrors. Dont know why, but in a year or two they seem to have issues as well.
Definitely the Proof Buff's and most definitely the Proof Spouse Gold......within 2 years of issue......cloudy mirrors and toning....
Then the coins are inspected before they seal them in the capsules. Somewhere along the line after that, maybe in submitting or grading it happened.
On the mint redoing the buffalo fractionals, I think there is as much chance of that as them redoing the w unc gold eagles or w plat unc eagles. All three have been eliminated and if they bring something back then it would probably be the proof gold eagles, not the buffalo or w unc gold eagles.
The platinum bullion coins though are I think a different matter. I doubt the mint considers them the same as the burnished coins but who knows.
On the proofs being easy to understand, it is simple. 1 coin per year was made period. No confusion.
On the "bullion" plats you have 1 coin per year but also two coins a year 2006 to 2008. Most people that buy off of Ebay have no clue what burnished is so two coins in some years and 1 coin in other years is confusing. Will they only collect 1 or two? Someone even said the w unc are getting mixed in with the non W coins now. Confusing to those that don't follow them? I think yes.
The one thing we agree on though is the absolute low numbers made assuming the mintages are correct. I like the 1/2 unc MS70 2008 plat. But then look at the gold buffalo proofs. The 1/4 proof is selling for almost the same amount as the 1/2 proof. Strange? Maybe the buffalo nickle guys are buying into these secretly as I said, thus the demand for that size.
Anyway I am not sure what you are talking about with the cloudy and toned coins, I am not worried. I guess i should sell all my PR70 and MS70 coins and buy what?
Even if 10% went down as you claim that makes the remaining perfect coins that much more valuable. So take chances, take risk, that is what life is about. And no, I am not selling. In the future people that sold now IMO will feel like the ones that sold the gold buffalo fractionals last year. --Regretful--
If you were following along, I referred to the proofs with the hazing/cloudy mirrors, toning and or fingerprint issues.
As you are probably aware, those mirrored surfaces are far easier to mar than burnished unc "matte" surfaces. Nice promo video with cloth gloved hands.......hmmmm......what happens when the camera is turned off. Sorry, but i've received more than one bad proof coin in my life directly from the USM to think otherwise.
Better get to the bank box and check yours, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
Think what you want about the Buff fractionals, but as more and more people want those buffs, the more likely it becomes that a release of a special set of fractionals or fractionals in general will come to pass.
Keep telling your self they wont do it. Maybe they wont. Close your eyes and click your heels three times. Maybe it wont happen.
Just had to get the thread off that number.
<< <i>Half -
If you were following along, I referred to the proofs with the hazing/cloudy mirrors, toning and or fingerprint issues.
As you are probably aware, those mirrored surfaces are far easier to mar than burnished unc "matte" surfaces. Nice promo video with cloth gloved hands.......hmmmm......what happens when the camera is turned off. Sorry, but i've received more than one bad proof coin in my life directly from the USM to think otherwise.
Better get to the bank box and check yours, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
Think what you want about the Buff fractionals, but as more and more people want those buffs, the more likely it becomes that a release of a special set of fractionals or fractionals in general will come to pass.
Keep telling your self they wont do it. Maybe they wont. Close your eyes and click your heels three times. Maybe it wont happen. >>
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Nothing personal but your flaying against everything but 2008-Unc plats is sounding incresingly desperate.
Just how many of the 2008-W $10 Unc plats do you hold??
I did however have an 1989 1/2 oz. AGE that was unblemished for about 18 years until being placed into PCGS MS-69 plastic. It then turned spotty and had toning smears all over it when I sent it in for spot review last week. To be continued...
I knew it would happen.
I ordered two copies. Problem solved.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>if you order something else to increase the total to $25 or more, you can ask for free shipping.
I ordered two copies. Problem solved.
I sprung for a replacement pad for my variable speed, random orbiter sander as my add on.
I think I understand what you mean about the matte surface of the "W" MS APE's. They do seem "easier" to look at and examine regardless of type of light. If you pick up a Proof APE and look at it in different types of light and at varying angles it can become very taxing on the eye.........
Regarding FS holders...for some reason I feel the coins just look better in this type of packaging....must be the American Flag! Albeit, the prices are going abit crazy..........
JCoin
If this ever happens, I would expect the 2008-W fractional Buffs to become even more popular as the date keys to the uncirculated fractional series.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Eric,
The 1997-2003 APE MS coins are Reverse Proof?
Any chance of a photo or URL to illustrate?
JCoin >>
Try this
http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Half-Ounce-50-Platinum-Eagle-Gem-BU_W0QQitemZ370348902749QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_Bullion?hash=item563a83c95d
<< <i>
<< <i>Eric,
Quick Question: do you earn more from your book if I order at certain outlets? Let me/us know. Publishing is notorious for "deep discounts" that all but eliminate any profit for the author, and I just want to make sure you're getting your fair royalty. Amazon is also a notorious place for so-called "reviewers" to dump their free book samples--again killing the rightful earnings of the author.
Grits,
Thank you very much for your concern but I am not worried about royalties on the text. They pay me about 70 cents a copy on every one sold and they are making 8,000 copies. I have well over 1000 hours in the project over more than two years plus several thousand dollars just developing the one off multi-coin slabs photos in the text so no matter how you cut it the return on labor is almost non existent. What is important is that we use this opportunity to demonstrate the awesome collecting opportunity that these great modern series present in our lifetime.
Eric, KP is going to sell these books through the "trade" like Borders, Waldens, Amazon etc. I as the author can buy them in bulk at the same price they wholesale them in bulk to the big venues and plan to do so. They still have not told me exactly what that bulk price is yet but they will soon. I plan to sell them in bulk at about cost to those of you that want them so you can use them to show others some of the reasons you like this area of collecting. I also am developing a group of Buy it Now adds for Ebay with the option to buy the book at full $22 price plus freight but will mention that Amazon offers the text cheaper and that interested collectors can visit us here on the big PCGS moderns thread.
Guys when you put up Ebay auctions why not mention at the bottom our new book and suggest that the customers that like moderns order a copy. If everyone that reads the boards would do that we just might be able to speed up the revolution that's underway in the coin world.
Eric >>
Eric, congratulations on your new book. Coin collecting did not really take off until the Red Book came out in the 1940s, which really launched coin collecting as we know it in the 1950s.
I think your new moderns book will go a long way to promoting wonderful coins such as the platinum series!
David Frohman
<< <i>
<< <i>Eric,
The 1997-2003 APE MS coins are Reverse Proof?
Any chance of a photo or URL to illustrate?
JCoin >>
Try this
http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Half-Ounce-50-Platinum-Eagle-Gem-BU_W0QQitemZ370348902749QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_Bullion?hash=item563a83c95d >>
Eric
Thanks.
I'll be ordering a couple of your books to distribute to some close friends over here in my neck of the woods...
JCoin (from a Small Country in South East Asia)
Box of 20
As several forum members noted, you get free shipping if your order is over $25.
You can pre-order Eric's book on modern commemorative coins at
Eric's book on modern commemorative coins at Amazon.com
LOTS, I mean LOTS of these coins have developed splotchy toning, cloudy mirrors (mainly on plat proofs) and spotting.
Not good for future appreciation at all.
As for "sounding desperate" - not a chance. Just stating facts. I've sold what I wanted to sell already.
I've held and am holding all of these issues. As for design - of couse I love the buffs. But I wont hold the proofs for reasons mentioned above. I've owned them and sold them promptly.
The UNC plats - 2006/2007/2008W are absolutely the rarest, in each denomination, lovely 3 year recognizable themed set. This set will take off, and all of you who failed to acquire them at very reasonable prices will be saying "remember when I could have bought......"
I told you so here, tonight, and I haven't been wrong many times.
If you choose to follow some individuals here, who were DEAD WRONG when it came to mintages not only on the plats but the buffs as well, go right ahead with the crowd of sheep.
I choose to walk my own path.
7/8 you have to be joking, anyone who has followed this must be chuckling right now. I won't waste our time going over it all, but even your claim on the one coin difference being a Key Coin fell flat.
Also i looked over the latest sales for 2008 plats and there have been way more listings of 2008 unc w plats vs. proof plats. If the 2008 w uncs are so rare you wouldn't expect to see this. Either many are unloading them or there are more than the mint published.
As a comparison some other modern coins with mintages of 3000 or less may appear 1 coin a month. The 2008 UNC w plat market is saturated by comparison.
BTW the prices for the buffalo coins have blown away the unc w plats by a wide margin, not sure how you can say otherwise. Anyone that bought the buffalos could sell today and buy twice as many plats if they wanted.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
<< <i>My 2007 PCGS First Spouse Gold Proofs have developed toning. >>
ruh-roh.
I'm going to have to check mine.
PCGS or raw?
Box of 20
You have been wrong on your predictions so many times, I dont know why you keep coming back for more......but then again this is a great sounding board for comments......everyone's entitled to their opinion.....
In some alternate reality I guess you are able to re-define key coin market concepts like that of a KEY DATE.
You have been proven wrong by the audited numbers on both the unc plats AND the proof buffaloes.
Look back a couple hundred posts. The numbers dont lie.
I'm not saying not to hold onto a few for yourself as a collector, but the prices you see now are a bubble. it will pop.
If you like buffaloes, put your money into rarity. The 1 oz unc offers it. IMO, the best buy of the bunch right now.
If you want a series that hasnt yet inflated into the stratosphere, go for the 08-w unc plats.
7/8's BST thread with trade for Buffalo Gold
As another option, will accept --EVEN-- trade for 2008-W $10 1/4 oz Buffalo UNC/PRF Gold in OGP --or-- 2008-W $10 1/4 oz American Gold Eagle UNC in OGP --ONLY
Even trade for gold buffalo huh?
I routinely trade, buy and sell many different issues.
And it is correct - and I did trade even for a few pieces.
Thats right - EVEN MONEY.....for 1/4 oz Buffaloes.......uuuggghhhh!!! that blows a hole in what you think the 1/4 buffs are worth...right?
Shall we pull out the Greysheet and tell you what the majority of dealers are paying? You must know that EBAY is a very thin market for these, right? Or do you?
This doesn't indicate in the least what I believe is the rarer of the issues. Only what was needed at the time to further trade on for other items.
And BTW, the post is when those coins were trading for $850-$900, not foolish auctions asking $1400+ which is waaay overblown.
I think your new moderns book will go a long way to promoting wonderful coins such as the platinum series!
David Frohman >>
David I hope so for all of us. We are like a bunch of neighborhood kids that have a big field the Mint gave us and we like to play but we didnt have a ball. So I went in the basement with a couple of other kids and we made the best foot ball we could. The ball has been thrown into our midst and its up to each of us to play our part to help move it down the field regardless of our size.
I am going to write some buy it now Ebay adds. If we can welcome buyers of silver proof quarters, silver, gold and platinum eagle collectors and buffalo collectors etc to the monster PCGS moderns thread and at the same time we introduce them to KPs book we may really get to see first hand the kind of growth David is talking about. Go forth and conquer guys in your own way.
Hope so,
Eric
PS: We are like a bunch of neighborhood kids that like to fight amoung ourselves from time to time too. :-) LOLOLOL
You have also been saying to BUY the 2008 w unc plats because they are the greatest coins. Yet here you are trying to get OUT of those and back IN to gold buffalos just two months ago when you were saying to sell.
You don't see the conflict in that?
Anyway that BST post says it all, I need not say more. Really I purchased the coins I wanted and you won't find a post from me selling the gold buffalos and begging to trade for w unc plats.
you'll be one of the sheeple that say I "woulda, shoulda, could have bought those unc w plats when they were...."
then they got away.
BUT- as for the Buffaloes......................................
can you spell
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
it just keeps getting bigger and bigger until one day
POP.
Firstly, if the Gold Buffs are in a bubble, we may never know it because the dollar is going to get trashed so badly that Gold Buffs will be rising quickly, but so will every other precious metal coin, collectible or not.
A second comment, jmski's current valuations based on ebay histories are:
1/4 oz. Unc. Gold Buff in OGP, PCGS MS-69 or equivalent: $1,200 to $1,400.
1/4 oz. Proof Gold Buff in OGP, PCGS MS-69 or equivalent: $1,200 to $1,500.
1/4 oz. Burnished "W" Plat in OGP, PCGS MS-69 or equivalent: $800 to $900.
I don't see the value in hyping what might happen, or what ought to happen. The market is the market.
The most recent Gold Buff Satin 1 oz. to sell on ebay went for $4,050 and the one just prior to it went for $2,920. Looks like a hot issue to me. Not just red-hot, but "super nova white"- hot or even "blue dwarf" hot - but what do I know?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>it's called "market timing"
you'll be one of the sheeple that say I "woulda, shoulda, could have bought those unc w plats when they were...."
then they got away.
BUT- as for the Buffaloes......................................
can you spell
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
it just keeps getting bigger and bigger until one day
POP. >>
What would you rather have with what's going on in Washington, real money in the form of gold or fiat paper money? I for one choose gold.
Does Intercept shield help protect the coins?
I of course will never sell, drop dead one day and my kids won't have a clue what to do.
Thats my next project, bringing my son into the fold.
He's only 12 but loves silver. NOT GOLD.
Maybe I can get him into plats.
advice is always appreciated.
I march to a different drummer.
So far, it seems to. I have had a couple of 2000-P Goodacres and a few Proof Silver Eagles in PCGS plastic stored in Intercept Shield boxes now for about 4 years with no change. My storage conditions are dry, and a relatively stable temp.
bringing my son into the fold.
He's only 12 but loves silver. NOT GOLD.
Maybe I can get him into plats.
advice is always appreciated.
When I was maybe 10 or so, my Grandmother gave me two rolls of nickels. That went a very long way in helping me to appreciate coins. You might consider a roll of silver dimes and a roll of clad dimes together.
Then, a single 1/10 oz. AGE and a single 1/10 oz. Plat.
When I was a kid, my older friends down the block had a weighing scale (single pan balance) from a chemistry set, and we used it to weigh stuff. An accurate digital scale might be interesting for your son to see the differences in density between clad, silver, copper, gold and platinum coins of approximately the same size. The feel and weight of different coins can be interesting to a kid.
I knew it would happen.
The maximum mintage for the Abigail Fillmore First Spouse Gold Coin is 15,000 across all product options.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
