"When I was maybe 10 or so, my Grandmother gave me two rolls of nickels. That went a very long way in helping me to appreciate coins. You might consider a roll of silver dimes and a roll of clad dimes together."
Good advice, but Roosies ? that may have an unintended effect, Mercurys or else go with rolls of quarters.
The Abigail Fillmore gold $10 will be released on March 18, just a few days from now. Based on past experience, it's possible that the Anna Harrison coin will be discontinued when that occurs.
The final mintage figures for the Anna Harrison should be interesting. Sales were relatively low as of a few weeks ago, but that could change.
I do have to say that lurking on this thread has given me the plat. bug. I was thinking of starting with the 10th ozers. in ms69. Could someone tell me how to look at past sales on ebay so I know what a fair offer would be for the ones offered up that way?
<< <i>I do have to say that lurking on this thread has given me the plat. bug. I was thinking of starting with the 10th ozers. in ms69. Could someone tell me how to look at past sales on ebay so I know what a fair offer would be for the ones offered up that way?
thanks >>
I will support 7/8 on this one.
Buy a 2006 or 2008 W unc. 1/4 plat or if you can stand it a 1/2.
you'll be one of the sheeple that say I "woulda, shoulda, could have bought those unc w plats when they were...."
then they got away.
BUT- as for the Buffaloes......................................
can you spell
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
it just keeps getting bigger and bigger until one day
POP. >>
let me throw in my two cents.
i bought into the buffs and the plats. i had them all graded by our hosts. some FS and some regular label. more of them graded 70 than 69, both proof and unc.
i sold almost all my buffs VERY early thinking they would repeat in following years and held all the plats.
while i think the plats will shine someday the buffs shined out of the gate.
A complete set of PCGS $10 plats in both proof and uncirculated are going to be THE hot moderns within the next five years. As long as you have 2-3 70's in each set, you're going to be sitting on real profit just about any time you want to take it.
A FS PCGS 2006 WMS 70 Platinum Set went for $4450 last week on ebay. I am a collector of plats, but these have not been doing well lately. Blame it on what you like-the economy, demand....... Only time will tell if they come back into favor. I think this auction scared off ebay sellers of these sets.
Looking for a little advice from some of modern guru's
I am thinking of selling some platinum. sell the bars sell the coins but only the (thalers, kooks, maples etc but not the plat eagles) sell the plat eagles BUT only the ??????
Thanx
I feel this meltup in plat,Pd & stocks will correct soon
Singapore & Hong Kong March/April Hong kong/Long Beach JUNE Table #838 MACAU emgworldwide@gmail.com Cell: 512.808.3197 EMERGING MARKET GROUP PCGS, NGC, CCE & NCS, CGC, PSA, Auth. Dealer
In my humble opinion, I think that there is a risk to the future value of fractional Buffalo's. I believe part of what is driving the price is their beauty and the fact is that 2008 is the only game in town for someone that wants to own the fractional coin. In 2013 it will be the 100th anniversary of the first Buffalo nickel. I believe that the mint will use that opportunity to issue additional fractional Buffalos. In fact the 1/4 oz ($10) is almost the exact same size as the original nickel and it might be issued on it's own or with smaller and larger siblings. I think that the mint will swing for the bleachers with the mintage. However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set. In addition, someone that wants an example of the coin because they like the beauty of the coin, will be temped to buy the much less costly version. Further, the cachet of being the anniversary date will factor in.
Keep those fractional Buffs at your own risk. They have taken a great ride, but whether or not the current pricing is a bubble and whether or not the mint will make more in the future are two factors that could have a serious impact on their future value.
(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet
<< <i>(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet >>
DAMN!!! ...I sold all my Buffs before I saw the disclaimer!!!
In my humble opinion, I think that there is a risk to the future value of fractional Buffalo's. <<There is risk in all coins....both from change in base metal value and numismatic value.>>
I believe part of what is driving the price is their beauty and the fact is that 2008 is the only game in town for someone that wants to own the fractional coin. << Demand vs. supply>>
In 2013 it will be the 100th anniversary of the first Buffalo nickel. I believe that the mint will use that opportunity to issue additional fractional Buffalos. << 3 years is a long time for something that might or might not happen. Why not more buffalo silver dollars?? How about a platinum buffalo??>>How about a 100 year commemorative 1913 V nickel in gold? I guess they missed their chance in 2004 for a 200 yr. version of 1804 dollar>>
In fact the 1/4 oz ($10) is almost the exact same size as the original nickel and it might be issued on it's own or with smaller and larger siblings. I think that the mint will swing for the bleachers with the mintage. << It is increasingly clear mint has no further interest in low volume mintage products unless mandated by law>>
However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set. <<As compared to a 1 year set??>>
In addition, someone that wants an example of the coin because they like the beauty of the coin, will be temped to buy the much less costly version. <<It is always a trade off...........the cheaper one vs. the rarer one.>>
Further, the cachet of being the anniversary date will factor in. <<Anniversary coins are almost always losers.>>
Keep those fractional Buffs at your own risk. <<As we do with all coins>>
They have taken a great ride, but whether or not the current pricing is a bubble and whether or not the mint will make more in the future are two factors that could have a serious impact on their future value. <<Lets state the obvious one more time.>>
(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet >>
<<You mean we can't sue you if your wrong?? Bummer.>>
I saw the mania for the 2006 Reverse Proof Gold Anniversary Set which was limited to 10k. 17K for a PCGS FS 70 Buffalo Proof set? I have the buffalo fractionals bought at the mint issue price and will never buy during a price bubble. I have become wiser when it comes to buying into the mania. Just be careful when buying into these high prices because more than likely they will peak and spiral downward when another mint bauble hypnotizes the collecting public in the coming years.
However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set. <<As compared to a 1 year set??>>
>>
I disagree with this statement. IF they did a ONE year fractional, they would make a TON of them, thus the 2008 would be 'key'. People who missed out on the 2008 would look to fill the whole, this would keep 2008 prices stable.
But I do believe that the 2008 will not go up forever. Like everything else it will peak, then fall as people dump, then climb back to a stable price level. Thus is the cycle of everything.
On a seperate thread there is a discussion of the 2009 US Mint report that should be of some interest to followers of this thread.
In the 2009 report there is a section on 'Artistic Review Scores of Coin and Medal Designs' that makes for interesting reading.
After reading that section I believe the mint will make an effort to avoid retreads of old designs regardless of the popularity of the design or demand.( i.e. no new versions or re-issues of old designs.)
I believe we are about to enter a new and interesting period for US Coinage.
I've been away for awhile, but will chime in -- I agree with 7/8's thoughts on the platinums for the most part. Like 7/8, I strongly prefer the 06-08 unc ws as a 3 coin low mintage set. I know the uncirculated collectors seem to be in the minority, but I'm one of them - my personal opinion is that the mirrored surface on the proofs is more distracting than pretty.
I disagree with 7/8 on the "one true key" theory, at least in terms of driving price or demand. Where mintage figures show there is no significant difference, I think, as Eric says, that we're in a co-key situation, and I would not expect to see a significant price difference between the co-keys. The difference between platinums and the Morgan dollars 7/8 speaks of is based on collector base. A relatively small difference in population for Morgans (say 10,000) plays out very differently because the collector demand greatly exceeds the quantity of available coins; the price difference for a 5-10% lower pop is exponential. In platinums, we're just not going to see that kind of action, because the collector base doesn't dwarf the number of available coins.
Platinums have the same hurdle today that they've always had-- a small collector base. It's like we're in a chicken and egg stalemate-- higher prices might bring more interest and increase demand, but low prices hurt demand. We need a catalyst to set this off, because platinums are still off-radar for most collectors and dealers. I think it's a sign of how bad the market is if, as someone stated, a FS PCGS 2006 WMS 70 Platinum Set went for $4450 last week on ebay -- I did a completed auctions search on ebay and didn't find that, though I did see a NGC early release set went for $4600. It's not a hot market for platinums, whether one thinks that makes this a good buying opportunity is a matter of opinion. At the end of the day, though, it's hard not to like the uncirculated plats... the low mintage numbers are just too good to worry much about the long term prospects.
I see how it could be interpreted as bubble talk, but we need something to raise the profile of these coins as an attractive series.
My concern isn't higher prices to beget higher prices-- or a fast run up-- but higher prices to raise attention and build a collector base sufficient to consume existing supply. We need rational exuberance -- when MS70 2006 w sets sell for $4500, it feels like there isn't any, and that needs to change if we want the series to attract new collectors, not lose existing ones.
<< <i> higher prices might bring more interest and increase demand, but low prices hurt demand. >>
??? that's bubble talk if I've ever heard it.
You are begging for the pain of post bubble prices by longing for fast price run-ups based upon..... fast price run-ups.
prices going higher to drive prices higher is a very, very, very bad thing. >>
The price can rise significantly if the price of platinum rises, if nothing else. If the rise in platinum is based on real demand for the metal, that wouldn't be a bubble unless the underlying demand is temporary (like some sheik decides to plate his car in platinum).
In my humble opinion, I think that there is a risk to the future value of fractional Buffalo's. <<There is risk in all coins....both from change in base metal value and numismatic value.>> ***I agree with the original statement***
I believe part of what is driving the price is their beauty and the fact is that 2008 is the only game in town for someone that wants to own the fractional coin. << Demand vs. supply>> ***100% agree, once fractional coins are offered again, the demand side for these coins gets splintered***
In 2013 it will be the 100th anniversary of the first Buffalo nickel. I believe that the mint will use that opportunity to issue additional fractional Buffalos. << 3 years is a long time for something that might or might not happen. Why not more buffalo silver dollars?? How about a platinum buffalo??>>How about a 100 year commemorative 1913 V nickel in gold? I guess they missed their chance in 2004 for a 200 yr. version of 1804 dollar>> ***Not sure, but it is a good thought***
In fact the 1/4 oz ($10) is almost the exact same size as the original nickel and it might be issued on it's own or with smaller and larger siblings. I think that the mint will swing for the bleachers with the mintage. << It is increasingly clear mint has no further interest in low volume mintage products unless mandated by law>> ***It's logical to use the size that is closest to the original coin to appeal to both modern and classic collectors alike***
However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set. <<As compared to a 1 year set??>>
In addition, someone that wants an example of the coin because they like the beauty of the coin, will be temped to buy the much less costly version. <<It is always a trade off...........the cheaper one vs. the rarer one.>> ***This is exactly what some collectors will do - and this will lighten up demand on the 08-W's, thus hurting price***
Further, the cachet of being the anniversary date will factor in. <<Anniversary coins are almost always losers.>>
Keep those fractional Buffs at your own risk. <<As we do with all coins>>
They have taken a great ride, but whether or not the current pricing is a bubble and whether or not the mint will make more in the future are two factors that could have a serious impact on their future value. <<Lets state the obvious one more time.>> *** The price acceleration on the fractionals is so swift, it prices like a mature coin many years too soon. Bubble about to POP. Especially FS coins***
(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet >>
<< <i>Actually the mint's website list the Harrison as Sold Out >>
The Mint will always place a product into a "sold out" status, when it is taken of the shelf. The FS coins are only available for sale for 12 month & then removed.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Actually the mint's website list the Harrison as Sold Out >>
The Mint will always place a product into a "sold out" status, when it is taken of the shelf. The FS coins are only available for sale for 12 month & then removed. >>
Sold out means "no mas" amigo.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Unless there was a final spike in sales, the Anna Harrison unc. $10 will have a final mintage around 4000 coins or less.
Getting close to platinum territory.
I know next-to-nothing about Modern Commems, so I figured I'd do some research before making any bold statements. I remembered thinking that the bimetallic Library of Congress and the Jackie Robinson Gold $5 were both desirable, so I see that the mintages are:
LOC, Unc - 7,261 Jackie Robinson, Unc - 5,174
When those were issued, I had a passing thought that I'd should buy them, but at the time I didn't have enough funds to worry about making a killing. Comparatively, the sub-4,000 number looks pretty good.
Then, I kept looking at my trusty Redbook mintages, and another item jumped out at me. The Leif Erickson $1 Unc mintage is only 28,150. And the Capitol Visitor Center $1 Unc mintage is 35,380. The National Law Enforcement Officer Memorial $1 Unc mintage is 28,575. It goes on - Smithsonian, Jackie Robinson, National Community Service, 1996 Oympics (several under 20,000)!!!!!
Let's review - the much-ballyhooed 1995-W Silver Eagle Proof total mintage was 30,125. What's going on here? In one case, a 30,000 mintage 1 oz. Silver Modern is worth multiple thousands, in another case, maybe a few hundred bucks - maybe.
The obvious conclusion - valuation depends on the market, and mintage plays a concurrent role. As much as I like Plats, I recognize that the mintages will take us only so far. After that, it has to be the market.
My observation about Plats is that the collector market isn't going to grow that much. Whoever had the money and was inclined to collect Plats has taken the plunge. Sure, there'll be new collectors filtering in as they would for any collectible series, but the collector base isn't about to grow by 50% any time soon.
Should you throw in the towel and sell off your Plats? What are you, crazy? If you like what's happening with the Gold Buffs, get used to it because all precious metals are going to be taking a nice ride. I expect very strong rises in all pms, and as that happens the keys will outrun the rest, as you would normally expect. In the case of Plats, they are ALL keys. Platinum is a rare metal and the supply is not increasing. It will outrun gold, and the coins will definitely feel the pinch. You heard it here first.
In the case of Modern Commem Gold, and Gold Spouses I think that they will both approximate what we've seen in Classic Commem Halves over the years. Apathy at first, and then they will come into their own, with high grade coins and the "keys' leading the way, as usual. Buy the keys.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Unless there was a final spike in sales, the Anna Harrison unc. $10 will have a final mintage around 4000 coins or less.
Getting close to platinum territory.
I know next-to-nothing about Modern Commems, so I figured I'd do some research before making any bold statements. I remembered thinking that the bimetallic Library of Congress and the Jackie Robinson Gold $5 were both desirable, so I see that the mintages are:
LOC, Unc - 7,261 Jackie Robinson, Unc - 5,174
When those were issued, I had a passing thought that I'd should buy them, but at the time I didn't have enough funds to worry about making a killing. Comparatively, the sub-4,000 number looks pretty good.
Then, I kept looking at my trusty Redbook mintages, and another item jumped out at me. The Leif Erickson $1 Unc mintage is only 28,150. And the Capitol Visitor Center $1 Unc mintage is 35,380. The National Law Enforcement Officer Memorial $1 Unc mintage is 28,575. It goes on - Smithsonian, Jackie Robinson, National Community Service, 1996 Oympics (several under 20,000)!!!!!
Let's review - the much-ballyhooed 1995-W Silver Eagle Proof total mintage was 30,125. What's going on here? In one case, a 30,000 mintage 1 oz. Silver Modern is worth multiple thousands, in another case, maybe a few hundred bucks - maybe.
The obvious conclusion - valuation depends on the market, and mintage plays a concurrent role. As much as I like Plats, I recognize that the mintages will take us only so far. After that, it has to be the market.
My observation about Plats is that the collector market isn't going to grow that much. Whoever had the money and was inclined to collect Plats has taken the plunge. Sure, there'll be new collectors filtering in as they would for any collectible series, but the collector base isn't about to grow by 50% any time soon.
Should you throw in the towel and sell off your Plats? What are you, crazy? If you like what's happening with the Gold Buffs, get used to it because all precious metals are going to be taking a nice ride. I expect very strong rises in all pms, and as that happens the keys will outrun the rest, as you would normally expect. In the case of Plats, they are ALL keys. Platinum is a rare metal and the supply is not increasing. It will outrun gold, and the coins will definitely feel the pinch. You heard it here first.
In the case of Modern Commem Gold, and Gold Spouses I think that they will both approximate what we've seen in Classic Commem Halves over the years. Apathy at first, and then they will come into their own, with high grade coins and the "keys' leading the way, as usual. Buy the keys. >>
Mintage is just part of equation.............................demand is a larger component. If it was just mintage we could take last 50-100 years of US coinage and plot a graph of mintage vs. value and get a straight line. Oh if it were only so simple..............
In the end people buy what they want for their own reasons. Wondercoins recent post outlining an actual conversation with a customer was very telling.
Will this preference for gold continue?? Mintages are fixed..................only demand can change. Hopefully Eric's book, future Red Book editions and various other numismatic articles will increase demand for platinum. We'll see................
<<And this Raw Unc. Buffalo Set is worth watching as it ascends....>>
<<More Tuff Buff>>
That's more than a little impressive (and quite scary actually) for a raw Unc. set with more than 3 days left...considering that an identical raw set sold for "only" $5,829.00 on 3/8/2010.
And I got a laugh out of the last line in this auction: "We also sell 100% natural dog biscuits."
I like the rest of you wish I had bought as many buffalo 1/4 2008 unc coins and both 4 coin sets unc and proof of the 2008 buffalos. But I have what I have. It sure would have been sweet to have a few of the items cause I want to buy a new car and something else. So my point is what should I buy this year on speculation to make money. I am thinking the Boy Scout coin.
Please advise me as to other mint products.
I sure would appreciate it.
Meantime I bought Erics book which is on backorder and I am reading David Bowers book The Expert,s Guide to collecting& investing in rare coins.
Thank you
Ships are safe in harbor but thats not what ships were built for.
Comments
Good advice, but Roosies ? that may have an unintended effect
The final mintage figures for the Anna Harrison should be interesting. Sales were relatively low as of a few weeks ago, but that could change.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
thanks
These are a challenge to find.....
<< <i>I do have to say that lurking on this thread has given me the plat. bug. I was thinking of starting with the 10th ozers. in ms69. Could someone tell me how to look at past sales on ebay so I know what a fair offer would be for the ones offered up that way?
thanks >>
I will support 7/8 on this one.
Buy a 2006 or 2008 W unc. 1/4 plat or if you can stand it a 1/2.
Any 2008 plat proof would also be a good choice.
Right now the keys (plural) are selling cheap!!
<< <i>it's called "market timing"
you'll be one of the sheeple that say I "woulda, shoulda, could have bought those unc w plats when they were...."
then they got away.
BUT- as for the Buffaloes......................................
can you spell
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
B U B B L E
it just keeps getting bigger and bigger until one day
POP. >>
let me throw in my two cents.
i bought into the buffs and the plats. i had them all graded by our hosts. some FS and some regular label. more of them graded 70 than 69, both proof and unc.
i sold almost all my buffs VERY early thinking they would repeat in following years and held all the plats.
while i think the plats will shine someday the buffs shined out of the gate.
i REALLY REGRET selling those buffs early.
Anna Harrison $10 Gold
Proof ..........6,250
Mint State ....3,537
Sales close tomorrow. The series is getting close to the bottom.
After Lincoln till Teddy Roosevelt I would think would be the lowest.....
Box of 20
I am thinking of selling some platinum.
sell the bars
sell the coins but only the (thalers, kooks, maples etc but not the plat eagles)
sell the plat eagles BUT only the ??????
Thanx
I feel this meltup in plat,Pd & stocks will correct soon
Hong kong/Long Beach JUNE Table #838
MACAU
emgworldwide@gmail.com
Cell: 512.808.3197
EMERGING MARKET GROUP
PCGS, NGC, CCE & NCS, CGC, PSA, Auth. Dealer
Wondercoin
I knew it would happen.
Keep those fractional Buffs at your own risk. They have taken a great ride, but whether or not the current pricing is a bubble and whether or not the mint will make more in the future are two factors that could have a serious impact on their future value.
(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet
<< <i>(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet >>
DAMN!!!
<<There is risk in all coins....both from change in base metal value and numismatic value.>>
I believe part of what is driving the price is their beauty and the fact is that 2008 is the only game in town for someone that wants to own the fractional coin.
<< Demand vs. supply>>
In 2013 it will be the 100th anniversary of the first Buffalo nickel. I believe that the mint will use that opportunity to issue additional fractional Buffalos.
<< 3 years is a long time for something that might or might not happen. Why not more buffalo silver dollars?? How about a platinum buffalo??>>How about a 100 year commemorative 1913 V nickel in gold? I guess they missed their chance in 2004 for a 200 yr. version of 1804 dollar>>
In fact the 1/4 oz ($10) is almost the exact same size as the original nickel and it might be issued on it's own or with smaller and larger siblings. I think that the mint will swing for the bleachers with the mintage.
<< It is increasingly clear mint has no further interest in low volume mintage products unless mandated by law>>
However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set.
<<As compared to a 1 year set??>>
In addition, someone that wants an example of the coin because they like the beauty of the coin, will be temped to buy the much less costly version.
<<It is always a trade off...........the cheaper one vs. the rarer one.>>
Further, the cachet of being the anniversary date will factor in.
<<Anniversary coins are almost always losers.>>
Keep those fractional Buffs at your own risk.
<<As we do with all coins>>
They have taken a great ride, but whether or not the current pricing is a bubble and whether or not the mint will make more in the future are two factors that could have a serious impact on their future value.
<<Lets state the obvious one more time.>>
(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet >>
<<You mean we can't sue you if your wrong?? Bummer.>>
Box of 20
I no longer see it on the US mint website (catalog). All I see are the bronze medals.
<< <i>Is the Anna Harrison FS gold coin sold out?
I no longer see it on the US mint website (catalog). All I see are the bronze medals. >>
Not sold out but "retired" when the Filmore became available.
<< <i>Not sold out but "retired" when the Filmore became available. >>
You are right OPA. Sold out is an improper term.
Glad I bought two last night.
<< <i>
However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set.
<<As compared to a 1 year set??>>
>>
I disagree with this statement. IF they did a ONE year fractional, they would make a TON of them, thus the 2008 would be 'key'. People who missed out on the 2008 would look to fill the whole, this would keep 2008 prices stable.
But I do believe that the 2008 will not go up forever. Like everything else it will peak, then fall as people dump, then climb back to a stable price level. Thus is the cycle of everything.
<< <i>I don't think any of us understand those FS prices............ >>
Imagine if PCGS didn't 'invent' First Strike ?!?!?
It certainly opened up a whole new market.
In the 2009 report there is a section on 'Artistic Review Scores of Coin and Medal Designs' that makes for interesting reading.
After reading that section I believe the mint will make an effort to avoid retreads of old designs regardless of the popularity of the design or demand.( i.e. no new versions or re-issues of old designs.)
I believe we are about to enter a new and interesting period for US Coinage.
Can someone provide link??
I disagree with 7/8 on the "one true key" theory, at least in terms of driving price or demand. Where mintage figures show there is no significant difference, I think, as Eric says, that we're in a co-key situation, and I would not expect to see a significant price difference between the co-keys. The difference between platinums and the Morgan dollars 7/8 speaks of is based on collector base. A relatively small difference in population for Morgans (say 10,000) plays out very differently because the collector demand greatly exceeds the quantity of available coins; the price difference for a 5-10% lower pop is exponential. In platinums, we're just not going to see that kind of action, because the collector base doesn't dwarf the number of available coins.
Platinums have the same hurdle today that they've always had-- a small collector base. It's like we're in a chicken and egg stalemate-- higher prices might bring more interest and increase demand, but low prices hurt demand. We need a catalyst to set this off, because platinums are still off-radar for most collectors and dealers. I think it's a sign of how bad the market is if, as someone stated, a FS PCGS 2006 WMS 70 Platinum Set went for $4450 last week on ebay -- I did a completed auctions search on ebay and didn't find that, though I did see a NGC early release set went for $4600. It's not a hot market for platinums, whether one thinks that makes this a good buying opportunity is a matter of opinion. At the end of the day, though, it's hard not to like the uncirculated plats... the low mintage numbers are just too good to worry much about the long term prospects.
Congrats to Eric on a fine-looking book: Eric's Book on Amazon
<< <i> higher prices might bring more interest and increase demand, but low prices hurt demand. >>
??? that's bubble talk if I've ever heard it.
You are begging for the pain of post bubble prices by longing for fast price run-ups based upon..... fast price run-ups.
prices going higher to drive prices higher is a very, very, very bad thing.
I see how it could be interpreted as bubble talk, but we need something to raise the profile of these coins as an attractive series.
My concern isn't higher prices to beget higher prices-- or a fast run up-- but higher prices to raise attention and build a collector base sufficient to consume existing supply. We need rational exuberance -- when MS70 2006 w sets sell for $4500, it feels like there isn't any, and that needs to change if we want the series to attract new collectors, not lose existing ones.
On a seperate note I think we may be seeing a clear break point for platinum collectors.
Pre 2009 vs. post 2008.
As we have seen from the 2009 proof design and 2009 US Mint report, future Platinum design themes will be clearly distinct from the pre 2009 coins.
The classic platinum coins will be pre 2009.
The 2009 and subsequent coins will be modern cr*p.
<< <i>
<< <i> higher prices might bring more interest and increase demand, but low prices hurt demand. >>
??? that's bubble talk if I've ever heard it.
You are begging for the pain of post bubble prices by longing for fast price run-ups based upon..... fast price run-ups.
prices going higher to drive prices higher is a very, very, very bad thing. >>
The price can rise significantly if the price of platinum rises, if nothing else. If the rise in platinum is based on real demand for the metal, that wouldn't be a bubble unless the underlying demand is temporary (like some sheik decides to plate his car in platinum).
In my humble opinion, I think that there is a risk to the future value of fractional Buffalo's.
<<There is risk in all coins....both from change in base metal value and numismatic value.>>
***I agree with the original statement***
I believe part of what is driving the price is their beauty and the fact is that 2008 is the only game in town for someone that wants to own the fractional coin.
<< Demand vs. supply>>
***100% agree, once fractional coins are offered again, the demand side for these coins gets splintered***
In 2013 it will be the 100th anniversary of the first Buffalo nickel. I believe that the mint will use that opportunity to issue additional fractional Buffalos.
<< 3 years is a long time for something that might or might not happen. Why not more buffalo silver dollars?? How about a platinum buffalo??>>How about a 100 year commemorative 1913 V nickel in gold? I guess they missed their chance in 2004 for a 200 yr. version of 1804 dollar>>
***Not sure, but it is a good thought***
In fact the 1/4 oz ($10) is almost the exact same size as the original nickel and it might be issued on it's own or with smaller and larger siblings. I think that the mint will swing for the bleachers with the mintage.
<< It is increasingly clear mint has no further interest in low volume mintage products unless mandated by law>>
***It's logical to use the size that is closest to the original coin to appeal to both modern and classic collectors alike***
However, if mint does this as a one year issue and only makes them in 2013, I believe that this will hurt and not help the 2008-W's. A two coin series does not make a great collector set.
<<As compared to a 1 year set??>>
In addition, someone that wants an example of the coin because they like the beauty of the coin, will be temped to buy the much less costly version.
<<It is always a trade off...........the cheaper one vs. the rarer one.>>
***This is exactly what some collectors will do - and this will lighten up demand on the 08-W's, thus hurting price***
Further, the cachet of being the anniversary date will factor in.
<<Anniversary coins are almost always losers.>>
Keep those fractional Buffs at your own risk.
<<As we do with all coins>>
They have taken a great ride, but whether or not the current pricing is a bubble and whether or not the mint will make more in the future are two factors that could have a serious impact on their future value.
<<Lets state the obvious one more time.>>
*** The price acceleration on the fractionals is so swift, it prices like a mature coin many years too soon. Bubble about to POP. Especially FS coins***
(Disclaimer: The thoughts or lack thereof expressed in this post are my own and should not be relied upon by anyone for any investment or other purpose. Use your own diligence and make up your own mind think on their own)-Planchet >>
<< <i>Actually the mint's website list the Harrison as Sold Out >>
The Mint will always place a product into a "sold out" status, when it is taken of the shelf. The FS coins are only available for sale for 12 month & then removed.
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually the mint's website list the Harrison as Sold Out >>
The Mint will always place a product into a "sold out" status, when it is taken of the shelf. The FS coins are only available for sale for 12 month & then removed. >>
Sold out means "no mas" amigo.
<< <i>never regret taking a profit. >>
If only I could really internailze this with respect to the buffs that I sold....
Getting close to platinum territory.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Getting close to platinum territory.
I know next-to-nothing about Modern Commems, so I figured I'd do some research before making any bold statements. I remembered thinking that the bimetallic Library of Congress and the Jackie Robinson Gold $5 were both desirable, so I see that the mintages are:
LOC, Unc - 7,261
Jackie Robinson, Unc - 5,174
When those were issued, I had a passing thought that I'd should buy them, but at the time I didn't have enough funds to worry about making a killing. Comparatively, the sub-4,000 number looks pretty good.
Then, I kept looking at my trusty Redbook mintages, and another item jumped out at me. The Leif Erickson $1 Unc mintage is only 28,150. And the Capitol Visitor Center $1 Unc mintage is 35,380. The National Law Enforcement Officer Memorial $1 Unc mintage is 28,575. It goes on - Smithsonian, Jackie Robinson, National Community Service, 1996 Oympics (several under 20,000)!!!!!
Let's review - the much-ballyhooed 1995-W Silver Eagle Proof total mintage was 30,125. What's going on here? In one case, a 30,000 mintage 1 oz. Silver Modern is worth multiple thousands, in another case, maybe a few hundred bucks - maybe.
The obvious conclusion - valuation depends on the market, and mintage plays a concurrent role. As much as I like Plats, I recognize that the mintages will take us only so far. After that, it has to be the market.
My observation about Plats is that the collector market isn't going to grow that much. Whoever had the money and was inclined to collect Plats has taken the plunge. Sure, there'll be new collectors filtering in as they would for any collectible series, but the collector base isn't about to grow by 50% any time soon.
Should you throw in the towel and sell off your Plats? What are you, crazy? If you like what's happening with the Gold Buffs, get used to it because all precious metals are going to be taking a nice ride. I expect very strong rises in all pms, and as that happens the keys will outrun the rest, as you would normally expect. In the case of Plats, they are ALL keys. Platinum is a rare metal and the supply is not increasing. It will outrun gold, and the coins will definitely feel the pinch. You heard it here first.
In the case of Modern Commem Gold, and Gold Spouses I think that they will both approximate what we've seen in Classic Commem Halves over the years. Apathy at first, and then they will come into their own, with high grade coins and the "keys' leading the way, as usual. Buy the keys.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Unless there was a final spike in sales, the Anna Harrison unc. $10 will have a final mintage around 4000 coins or less.
Getting close to platinum territory.
I know next-to-nothing about Modern Commems, so I figured I'd do some research before making any bold statements. I remembered thinking that the bimetallic Library of Congress and the Jackie Robinson Gold $5 were both desirable, so I see that the mintages are:
LOC, Unc - 7,261
Jackie Robinson, Unc - 5,174
When those were issued, I had a passing thought that I'd should buy them, but at the time I didn't have enough funds to worry about making a killing. Comparatively, the sub-4,000 number looks pretty good.
Then, I kept looking at my trusty Redbook mintages, and another item jumped out at me. The Leif Erickson $1 Unc mintage is only 28,150. And the Capitol Visitor Center $1 Unc mintage is 35,380. The National Law Enforcement Officer Memorial $1 Unc mintage is 28,575. It goes on - Smithsonian, Jackie Robinson, National Community Service, 1996 Oympics (several under 20,000)!!!!!
Let's review - the much-ballyhooed 1995-W Silver Eagle Proof total mintage was 30,125. What's going on here? In one case, a 30,000 mintage 1 oz. Silver Modern is worth multiple thousands, in another case, maybe a few hundred bucks - maybe.
The obvious conclusion - valuation depends on the market, and mintage plays a concurrent role. As much as I like Plats, I recognize that the mintages will take us only so far. After that, it has to be the market.
My observation about Plats is that the collector market isn't going to grow that much. Whoever had the money and was inclined to collect Plats has taken the plunge. Sure, there'll be new collectors filtering in as they would for any collectible series, but the collector base isn't about to grow by 50% any time soon.
Should you throw in the towel and sell off your Plats? What are you, crazy? If you like what's happening with the Gold Buffs, get used to it because all precious metals are going to be taking a nice ride. I expect very strong rises in all pms, and as that happens the keys will outrun the rest, as you would normally expect. In the case of Plats, they are ALL keys. Platinum is a rare metal and the supply is not increasing. It will outrun gold, and the coins will definitely feel the pinch. You heard it here first.
In the case of Modern Commem Gold, and Gold Spouses I think that they will both approximate what we've seen in Classic Commem Halves over the years. Apathy at first, and then they will come into their own, with high grade coins and the "keys' leading the way, as usual. Buy the keys. >>
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Mintage is just part of equation.............................demand is a larger component.
If it was just mintage we could take last 50-100 years of US coinage and plot a graph of mintage vs. value and get a straight line.
Oh if it were only so simple..............
In the end people buy what they want for their own reasons.
Wondercoins recent post outlining an actual conversation with a customer was very telling.
At this time there are simply far more buyers interested in gold coins than in platinum coins.
This is true for both the US Mint bullion and collector coins.
Just look at last 10 years of sales....................
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sales&year=2005
Will this preference for gold continue??
Mintages are fixed..................only demand can change.
Hopefully Eric's book, future Red Book editions and various other numismatic articles will increase demand for platinum.
We'll see................
If I'm not a millionaire in 5 years...it's everyone else's fault!
My apologies if this was already posted...but I just spotted this from last Sunday night:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-W-GOLD-BUFFALO-PROOF-4-COIN-SET-BE8_W0QQitemZ290409620753QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_Bullion?hash=item439dc32511
Sweet Jesus...but we all really should have backed up the truck on these!!!
Box of 20
More Tuff Buff
Miles
<<More Tuff Buff>>
That's more than a little impressive (and quite scary actually) for a raw Unc. set with more than 3 days left...considering that an identical raw set sold for "only" $5,829.00 on 3/8/2010.
And I got a laugh out of the last line in this auction: "We also sell 100% natural dog biscuits."
Box of 20
But I have what I have.
It sure would have been sweet to have a few of the items cause I want to buy a new car and something else.
So my point is what should I buy this year on speculation to make money.
I am thinking the Boy Scout coin.
Please advise me as to other mint products.
I sure would appreciate it.
Meantime I bought Erics book which is on backorder and I am reading David Bowers book The Expert,s Guide to collecting& investing in rare coins.
Thank you