<< <i>I don't have a horse in the gold buffalo race, so I can say (without bias), "Bulls & Bears make money, Pigs get slaughtered." JMO >>
I thought it was "pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered", Either way, I agree. At the least sell enough to get your money back for all you bought and keep the rest for free. Personally, I am thinking of selling one 1/4 oz buff and buying a colt LE6920 before the next assult weapon ban hits. >>
Yeah, I think there's probably a dozen variations of the saying. However you say it, I seriously doubt that anyone that follows this thread is in danger of being slaughtered. The posters here are way too informed/smart to let that happen.
<< <i>I don't have a horse in the gold buffalo race, so I can say (without bias), "Bulls & Bears make money, Pigs get slaughtered." JMO >>
I thought it was "pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered", Either way, I agree. At the least sell enough to get your money back for all you bought and keep the rest for free. Personally, I am thinking of selling one 1/4 oz buff and buying a colt LE6920 before the next assult weapon ban hits. >>
Outstanding thought.
While just a bit (O.K. a lot) off topic....
With the proceeds form the buff you could also afford an LWRC with a piston operating system. We're issued LE6920's at the Sheriff's Office. I've been an LE patrol rifle instructor for many years and love the Colt. That said, given the choice, I'd take the LWRC. Just food for thought. CDNN recently had a great sale on them.
Hey Timber, I sold one of my 2008 W $50 buffalo UNC a year ago to buy a colt LE6940.You should take a look at it,It's colts newest design with full rails.I went with the Eotech 557 with 3x magnifier,awsome combo. I wished I would had sold a different coin to buy it because the buffalo has almost trippled in value since I sold it. I still buy and sell a few of the buffalos here and there but my herd of 77 08w Buffalo I have left is staying put for awhile safe behind my Colt. Need to stop rambling. Laters
<< <i>Hey Timber, I sold one of my 2008 W $50 buffalo UNC a year ago to buy a colt LE6940.You should take a look at it,It's colts newest design with full rails.I went with the Eotech 557 with 3x magnifier,awsome combo. I wished I would had sold a different coin to buy it because the buffalo has almost trippled in value since I sold it. I still buy and sell a few of the buffalos here and there but my herd of 77 08w Buffalo I have left is staying put for awhile safe behind my Colt. Need to stop rambling. Laters >>
77 08 W buffs!!! WOW - congrats on buying and KEEPING them. I sold nearly half of mine at prices far lower than today's :-(
Yea I also sold abuot 40 of mine for alot lower prices. I had to sell some to keep what I could. I sold all of my 69s and a some 70s. All my herd I have now are 70s, most NGC and a few PCGS. Got to love the 08 year. I was glad to have ordered some plats proofs also. Was crazy how they all pretty much sold out in one day. I would like to have the LWRC PSD 6.8 but it sure is pricey.Laters
<< <i>Yea I also sold abuot 40 of mine for alot lower prices. I had to sell some to keep what I could. I sold all of my 69s and a some 70s. All my herd I have now are 70s, most NGC and a few PCGS. Got to love the 08 year. I was glad to have ordered some plats proofs also. Was crazy how they all pretty much sold out in one day. I would like to have the LWRC PSD 6.8 but it sure is pricey.Laters >>
I picked up a 6.8 PSD a few months ago (7 months for the paperwork) - FANTASTIC, although I don't like the color, should have gotten black. PM me if you'd like for any details as I don't want to get this - the BEST thread on the boards - off topic. (I tried to PM you but you've got the PM feature turned off.) All of the posts on this forum are supposed to remain strictly in the numismatic realm. A great policy in my opinion. It is interesting how many on the boards are also interested in firearms.
<<Rich, did you mark up any of the coins you sold? Eric defaced some of the plats he sold in 2008 so they couldn't be re-sold, they had to be melted. just curious if you did the same or if they possibly could be re-sold instead of melted? >>
I did not...and considering the price I originally paid vs the price I got, I was willing to take a little less. I was also dealing with a person who has given me good consideration on other deals...so I was willing to be somewhat more flexible than normal.
If they actually end up in the melting pot, who knows? But that was my intent.
<< <i>Can anyone give me price guidance on a Raw 2008 W Gold Buffalo 1/4 oz $10. It seem the prices are all over the place. The only place I know is to look at Ebay and there are only 3 past auctions. >>
I'd keep an eye on this one. It's your's? Seems to be doing well.
<< <i>Can anyone give me price guidance on a Raw 2008 W Gold Buffalo 1/4 oz $10. It seem the prices are all over the place. The only place I know is to look at Ebay and there are only 3 past auctions. >>
I'd keep an eye on this one. It's your's? Seems to be doing well. >>
Yes, from a standpoint of a good listing alone, this Quarter Ounce will do well.
The pics are great, including the original shipping box is a novel idea, and the text on the storage and original owner imparts more confidence in the freshness of the coin.
Then there is the current auction price, as in the TV ad; WOW, that is a high price!!
<< <i>Can anyone give me price guidance on a Raw 2008 W Gold Buffalo 1/4 oz $10. It seem the prices are all over the place. The only place I know is to look at Ebay and there are only 3 past auctions. >>
I'd keep an eye on this one. It's your's? Seems to be doing well. >>
Yes, from a standpoint of a good listing alone, this Quarter Ounce will do well.
The pics are great, including the original shipping box is a novel idea, and the text on the storage and original owner imparts more confidence in the freshness of the coin.
Then there is the current auction price, as in the TV ad; WOW, that is a high price!! >>
<< <i>Can somone tell me if the 2008-W buffalos are selling for more or less than the 2008-W Plats, in general? Thanks! >>
Much more -- relatively speaking, buffs are hot, plats are not.
For the most part, the 2008-W plats have less than 1/3 the mintage of the buffs. The plats are also *much* scarcer by design type. I think the 2008-W plats will have their day.
Raufus, BlueBee, thanks for the information, I will take a look at the LWRC and do some reading. I am a civilian so am limited in my selection. Check your PM in a few days as I may have a question or two if you would be so kind as to offer advice. I do not want to get the thread off coins and get yelled at. BlueBee, I wish I had 70 of anything with gold content Anyway,thanks for the help!
You set a new high for the raw $10 Gold Buff this evening.
Also, VERY well done on the very nice presentation with excellent photos of a beautiful coin.
Next stop, $2000 for a raw...
Miles >>
What's that about a fool and his money will soon be parted? Believe me, the Mint will sooner or later reissue fractional Buffalo's and that will be the end of the high prices for 2008's.
...could it be possible...that the almighty...CERTIFIED COIN...may be trumped...by a lowly RAW coin...with the 08-W buff's?
Imagine that.
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That is an interesting question when it comes to mint issued collector coins where 95% of grades are 69/70.
Certainly we are seeing in many series the raw coins in OGP bringing more than slabed 69s and in the case of NGC there seems to be little or just a modest premium for many coins in MS/PR70.
The 2005 Marine dollars may be a lesson to consider.
A very popular coin......600,000 made and sold out.
I believe the PCGS MS/PR70 populations were in range of around 150-400 each last time I looked with a ratio of MS/PR 69s to 70s of around 10:1.(Someone might post last 69/70 numbers)
In 2005 the 70s sold for around $500 but have now bled down to around $100 each.
Dependent on % of pops achieving MS/PR69 vs. 70 they become hardly worth submitting coins when premium for a MS/PR70 is little more than cost of submission and S/H dependent on % of pops 69 vs. 70.
IMO for a more current example a big, big fall is coming for the premium on MS70 vs. MS69 UHRs.
Consider that 60+% of UHR coins submitted to PCGS grade MS70. .....................Hard to justify much premium for these over MS69.
A simple calculation would be to produce this result...................2 raw coins submitted would carry a greater than 80% probability of at least one grading MS70. For 3 raw coins submitted it would be 90%+ probability of getting at least 1 MS70.
Logic and simple math would suggest the premium for a MS70 UHR should be little more than the bulk submission cost for 2-3 raw coins plus S/H.
I have seen threads about the price increases of the Gold Buffalo's and I just assumed it was just in relation to the price of Gold going up and then one day I stumbled across a 1/10 and was in shock. Fortunately I listed this on the very last day Ebay had their 5 free submissions w/ zero insertion fees and $20 max commission. I didn't want to price it to high to scare people away, but I really wanted to get the auction listed before Ebay came out with the 12% fees. Originally I had two guys offering me $1450 and $1500 direct to end the auction early.
Of everything I have ever sold this had the most watchers at a count of 68.
It was a nice coin and after I pulled it from the security deposit box and photographed it I really started to admire it and considered ending the auction early. Then again I almost forgot that I owned it and decided to let it go to someone who would enjoy it. The sad thing is that originally I had a proof 1/10 and 1/4 Gold Buffalo and returned them because the mirrored fields being rippled looked cheap and to much like gold platting so I returned them and purchased one uncirculated 1/4 oz. That potential money could have really been used for a new roof.
It funny that I thought not having it graded would hurt me by $200 or $300, but then again maybe it just goes to show that I am not the only person who doesn't want a bunch of plastic.
Now that I have been away from collecting for awhile I think I need to look closer at what else I may have.
How are the burnished uncirculated platinum eagles doing? I noticed Platinum has gone up again, but from what I remember the 2006W looks like it trading closer to spot.
Looks like they are asking above market price for NGC coins compared to recent Ebay completed sales and yet a number of coins are already listed as "Sold Out".
They certainly are hyping them if you read their promotion paragraphs at bottom of page.
I have one question for those of you that advise of selling your Buffs into this market, what do you do with the money? In my case I have no debts and my saving account at Chase, (taken over from WAMU), is now paying 4/10 of one percent. 50 years ago California S&Ls were paying 4%. Keeping cash is a guaranteed way of losing purchasing power.
All I can say is I am so happy that I didn't sell my many 2008 w gold buffalo coins after repeatedly being told over and over again by some to sell. The numbers on Ebay show that the interest in these coins is amazing, and that demand will not go away.
Now if only those sleepy plat coins would wake up. The bad part for those coins is the higher platinum prices go the less chance of the key coins have many multiples to spot prices.
There is an ad in this weeks issue page 42 available now to online subscribers.
The 2008-Ws proofs and Uncs are almost all NGC slabbed and offered at prices well above recent completed Ebay sales.
They show the smaller fractionals are already sold out in many versions.
Interestingly the PR/MS69s and raw coins are in several instances sold out while the PR/MS70s remain suggesting to me people wanting examples without concern for grade.
The advertisement is accompanied with several paragraphs of hype.
Don't know if these gold-related articles made the rounds here yet. I found it interesting that one appeared on the Huffington Post a few days back and not some completely wild-eyed conspiracy site. So...offered for your consideration:
<< <i>There is an easy way to sidestep all the scams, frauds, and phony nonsense. Take delivery on your bullion, whether a 1 oz. Kruggerand or a truckload of 400 oz. institutional bars. Put it in an independent, insured depository that is not affiliated with any bank. Assay all the holdings for tungsten counterfeits. Then audit it periodically, for exact serial numbers and specified weights. >>
Will Secure Plus ensure our gold is gold?
PS: The US$ / CAD$ rate is hovering around 1:1 right now.
<< <i>You can always hang on to them to profit from the coming tungsten shortage.
Can tungsten be made into coins? There were some platinum counterfeits of gold coins in the 19th century, when platinum was cheaper than gold. >>
I was looking into that myself... it has maybe 10x the hardness of gold and it is almost the same density. (maybe those weren't die polish marks on the UHR, but machine marks instead )
I always liked hearing conspiracy theories just for the fun...
but after the Iran-Contra Affair (we don't negotiate with terrorists**), The 9/11 NYC air quality coverup, the missing weapons of mass destruction (I personally watched on tv Colin Powell tell the UN those tubes were of the size and tolerances for nuclear enrichment and not missles) .... I just think the gov't certainly could be in the manipulation game. Is all of it true? I don't know. But we've got a lot of debt to protect and a run on our currency would surely hurt us. Also, a run up in the gold price would increase the fear in the currency(at least) markets. So, if there is doubt about if all of the ingots used to back futures trades are there, then mistrust increases. The implications for all gold is huge even if they are still making real gold coins.
And in a circumstance where the public loses confidence in big players in the market, old gold would fare better, imo. As they would be trusted more.
I am a little concerned about the manipulation theory. And the fake bars increases that worry. Of course the two could be separate scams. They threw the life saving government employees of NYC under the bus for "the good of the nation," why can't they stick it to me? I think they can and would. Are they? I'm not sure.
<< <i>I've got to get busy and check all my 400 oz. bars.
Even if just one in a hundred is counterfiet I'll be p*ssed............. >>
The futures markets and the gold backing the contracts should be as tight as Fort Knox.
If 1 in a 1000 is fake, there is a huge problem.
I'd say most traders wouldn't know how to being to take physical delivery of the gold behind a futures contract, but the contract is a binding agreement and they could take delivery.
It's just that traders generally don't. The bars generally don't move. So, it is easy to throw in some fakes to make it look like the vaults are full for the audit.
The "safe-ness" involved with the futures markets is based upon the real physical existence of the bars. To trade against missing bars would be akin to trading stock in a phantom company with just a street address.
(Per the contracts, the Index Futures markets (Dow, Nasdaq, S&P, etc) are "cash settled" meaning they are only paper money backed and not stock backed. There it is "ok" to be without something phsyical other than the money. Not so for the metals markets.)
(a) Gold, to be eligible for delivery upon an Exchange contract must be delivered to a Licensed Depository by an Approved Carrier as follows: (i) directly from an Approved Producer for the account of such Approved Producer or an Exchange Clearing Member; (ii) directly from an Approved Assayer for the account of an Exchange Clearing Member; provided, that such gold is accompanied by an assay certificate of such Approved Assayer; or (iii) directly from another Licensed Depository for the account of an Exchange Clearing Member; provided, that such gold was placed in such other Licensed Depository pursuant to paragraphs (i) or (ii) of this Rule 113.09(a).
So, for the fake to get into the system, an "Approved Producer" lied, and "Approved Assayer" lied, or a "Licensed Depository" lied, or some combination.
The Exchange shall license facilities located within a 150 mile radius of the City of New York, in which gold may be stored for delivery on Exchange contracts ("Licensed Depositories"). Licensed Depositories may be added or eliminated from time to time, and the Exchange shall notify members of such changes and of the time when such changes shall become effective. The addition to or elimination of the names of Licensed Depositories shall not be deemed to affect the amount of money to be paid or the grade or quality of gold to be delivered on Exchange contracts, and shall be binding upon all such contracts entered into before as well as after the effective date of any such change, anything in the By-Laws to the contrary notwithstanding. Each Licensed Depository for gold shall also be designated as a Licensed Weighmaster for gold. Other Licensed Weighmasters may be licensed by the Exchange.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't have a horse in the gold buffalo race, so I can say (without bias), "Bulls & Bears make money, Pigs get slaughtered." JMO >>
I thought it was "pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered", Either way, I agree. At the least sell enough to get your money back for all you bought and keep the rest for free. Personally, I am thinking of selling one 1/4 oz buff and buying a colt LE6920 before the next assult weapon ban hits.
Yeah, I think there's probably a dozen variations of the saying. However you say it, I seriously doubt that anyone that follows this thread is in danger of being slaughtered. The posters here are way too informed/smart to let that happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't have a horse in the gold buffalo race, so I can say (without bias), "Bulls & Bears make money, Pigs get slaughtered." JMO >>
I thought it was "pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered", Either way, I agree. At the least sell enough to get your money back for all you bought and keep the rest for free. Personally, I am thinking of selling one 1/4 oz buff and buying a colt LE6920 before the next assult weapon ban hits.
Outstanding thought.
While just a bit (O.K. a lot) off topic....
With the proceeds form the buff you could also afford an LWRC with a piston operating system. We're issued LE6920's at the Sheriff's Office. I've been an LE patrol rifle instructor for many years and love the Colt. That said, given the choice, I'd take the LWRC. Just food for thought. CDNN recently had a great sale on them.
<< <i>Hey Timber, I sold one of my 2008 W $50 buffalo UNC a year ago to buy a colt LE6940.You should take a look at it,It's colts newest design with full rails.I went with the Eotech 557 with 3x magnifier,awsome combo. I wished I would had sold a different coin to buy it because the buffalo has almost trippled in value since I sold it. I still buy and sell a few of the buffalos here and there but my herd of 77 08w Buffalo I have left is staying put for awhile safe behind my Colt. Need to stop rambling. Laters >>
77 08 W buffs!!! WOW - congrats on buying and KEEPING them. I sold nearly half of mine at prices far lower than today's :-(
<< <i>Yea I also sold abuot 40 of mine for alot lower prices. I had to sell some to keep what I could. I sold all of my 69s and a some 70s. All my herd I have now are 70s, most NGC and a few PCGS. Got to love the 08 year. I was glad to have ordered some plats proofs also. Was crazy how they all pretty much sold out in one day. I would like to have the LWRC PSD 6.8 but it sure is pricey.Laters >>
I picked up a 6.8 PSD a few months ago (7 months for the paperwork) - FANTASTIC, although I don't like the color, should have gotten black. PM me if you'd like for any details as I don't want to get this - the BEST thread on the boards - off topic. (I tried to PM you but you've got the PM feature turned off.) All of the posts on this forum are supposed to remain strictly in the numismatic realm. A great policy in my opinion. It is interesting how many on the boards are also interested in firearms.
Regards, Ron
<<Rich, did you mark up any of the coins you sold? Eric defaced some of the plats he sold in 2008 so they couldn't be re-sold, they had to be melted. just curious if you did the same or if they possibly could be re-sold instead of melted? >>
I did not...and considering the price I originally paid vs the price I got, I was willing to take a little less. I was also dealing with a person who has given me good consideration on other deals...so I was willing to be somewhat more flexible than normal.
If they actually end up in the melting pot, who knows? But that was my intent.
<< <i>Can anyone give me price guidance on a Raw 2008 W Gold Buffalo 1/4 oz $10. It seem the prices are all over the place. The only place I know is to look at Ebay and there are only 3 past auctions. >>
I'd keep an eye on this one.
<< <i>
<< <i>Can anyone give me price guidance on a Raw 2008 W Gold Buffalo 1/4 oz $10. It seem the prices are all over the place. The only place I know is to look at Ebay and there are only 3 past auctions. >>
I'd keep an eye on this one.
Yes, from a standpoint of a good listing alone, this Quarter Ounce will do well.
The pics are great, including the original shipping box is a novel idea, and the text on the storage and original owner imparts more confidence in the freshness of the coin.
Then there is the current auction price, as in the TV ad; WOW, that is a high price!!
Miles
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Can anyone give me price guidance on a Raw 2008 W Gold Buffalo 1/4 oz $10. It seem the prices are all over the place. The only place I know is to look at Ebay and there are only 3 past auctions. >>
I'd keep an eye on this one.
Yes, from a standpoint of a good listing alone, this Quarter Ounce will do well.
The pics are great, including the original shipping box is a novel idea, and the text on the storage and original owner imparts more confidence in the freshness of the coin.
Then there is the current auction price, as in the TV ad; WOW, that is a high price!! >>
Oh Shoot! That's a 1/4 of gold!
WoW!
Wah! Cash flow, Cash Flow.
I'm
Thanks!
<< <i>Can somone tell me if the 2008-W buffalos are selling for more or less than the 2008-W Plats, in general?
Thanks! >>
Much more -- relatively speaking, buffs are hot, plats are not.
For the most part, the 2008-W plats have less than 1/3 the mintage of the buffs. The plats are also *much* scarcer by design type. I think the 2008-W plats will have their day.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
These raw sets are quite a draw for peoples that want the 'real thing!" over those slabs (oh, that's right, they too are rising).
Miles
<< <i>More Buffalo running amokness
These raw sets are quite a draw for peoples that want the 'real thing!" over those slabs (oh, that's right, they too are rising). >>
"Rare"
fluff, or not?
You set a new high for the raw $10 Gold Buff this evening.
Also, VERY well done on the very nice presentation with excellent photos of a beautiful coin.
Next stop, $2000 for a raw...
Miles
<< <i>Congrats Aberlight!!
You set a new high for the raw $10 Gold Buff this evening.
Also, VERY well done on the very nice presentation with excellent photos of a beautiful coin.
Next stop, $2000 for a raw...
Miles >>
What's that about a fool and his money will soon be parted? Believe me, the Mint will sooner or later reissue fractional Buffalo's and that will be the end of the high prices for 2008's.
Imagine that.
Certainly we are seeing in many series the raw coins in OGP bringing more than slabed 69s and in the case of NGC there seems to be little or just a modest premium for many coins in MS/PR70.
The 2005 Marine dollars may be a lesson to consider.
A very popular coin......600,000 made and sold out.
I believe the PCGS MS/PR70 populations were in range of around 150-400 each last time I looked with a ratio of MS/PR 69s to 70s of around 10:1.(Someone might post last 69/70 numbers)
In 2005 the 70s sold for around $500 but have now bled down to around $100 each.
Dependent on % of pops achieving MS/PR69 vs. 70 they become hardly worth submitting coins when premium for a MS/PR70 is little more than cost of submission and S/H dependent on % of pops 69 vs. 70.
IMO for a more current example a big, big fall is coming for the premium on MS70 vs. MS69 UHRs.
Consider that 60+% of UHR coins submitted to PCGS grade MS70. .....................Hard to justify much premium for these over MS69.
A simple calculation would be to produce this result...................2 raw coins submitted would carry a greater than 80% probability of at least one grading MS70. For 3 raw coins submitted it would be 90%+ probability of getting at least 1 MS70.
Logic and simple math would suggest the premium for a MS70 UHR should be little more than the bulk submission cost for 2-3 raw coins plus S/H.
me thinks lots of the fractional buffs "out of collector circulation" are now going to hit the market from a few major companies
you might want to take your moon money off the table real soon
I have my "pared" back herd that i'm keeping - dont get caught with a huge herd hoping for Pluto money.....
Of everything I have ever sold this had the most watchers at a count of 68.
It was a nice coin and after I pulled it from the security deposit box and photographed it I really started to admire it and considered ending the auction early. Then again I almost forgot that I owned it and decided to let it go to someone who would enjoy it. The sad thing is that originally I had a proof 1/10 and 1/4 Gold Buffalo and returned them because the mirrored fields being rippled looked cheap and to much like gold platting so I returned them and purchased one uncirculated 1/4 oz. That potential money could have really been used for a new roof.
It funny that I thought not having it graded would hurt me by $200 or $300, but then again maybe it just goes to show that I am not the only person who doesn't want a bunch of plastic.
Now that I have been away from collecting for awhile I think I need to look closer at what else I may have.
How are the burnished uncirculated platinum eagles doing? I noticed Platinum has gone up again, but from what I remember the 2006W looks like it trading closer to spot.
<< <i>ebay extrordinary gains for the buff's will be cut out at the legs given the new CW ad from a major advert.........
me thinks lots of the fractional buffs "out of collector circulation" are now going to hit the market from a few major companies
you might want to take your moon money off the table real soon
I have my "pared" back herd that i'm keeping - dont get caught with a huge herd hoping for Pluto money..... >>
.....................................................................................................................................................................................................
Looks like they are asking above market price for NGC coins compared to recent Ebay completed sales and yet a number of coins are already listed as "Sold Out".
They certainly are hyping them if you read their promotion paragraphs at bottom of page.
<< <i>Anybody else notice the price jumps with the 2003-W first Flight $10 in uncirculated? Is this coin being promoted? >>
Possibly, but with a mintage of 10k the upside for this coin does not look that great to me.
The uncirculated Anna Harrison First Spouse $10 gold is selling for around the same price, with a reported mintage of only 3,537.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
What is a 1/2 ounce w- unc 25 dollar gold 2008 buff worth
at this time
thanks
and they are selling for less than what many are asking currently on ebay
which, in turn, cuts the legs out from under anyone attempting to push these coins higher into the stratosphere at the moment.
starts with a G and ends with a D
Just avoid the 10th Anniversary set coins.
Now if only those sleepy plat coins would wake up.
<< <i>OK
What is a 1/2 ounce w- unc 25 dollar gold buff worth
at this time
thanks >>
Judging by recent eBay sales, around $1500 to over $2000, depending on grade (if slabbed) and presence of original packaging.
Pretty impressive, considering that it has a relatively high mintage compared to the other fractional buffs.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Thanks
<< <i>Anybody else notice the price jumps with the 2003-W first Flight $10 in uncirculated? Is this coin being promoted? >>
I did on ebay, I dont know if greysheet has moved them upwards.
<< <i>ebay extrordinary gains for the buff's will be cut out at the legs given the new CW ad from a major advert.........
me thinks lots of the fractional buffs "out of collector circulation" are now going to hit the market from a few major companies
you might want to take your moon money off the table real soon
I have my "pared" back herd that i'm keeping - dont get caught with a huge herd hoping for Pluto money..... >>
The only advertisement I see in CW is for ModernCoinMart and they are BUYING at those prices, not selling.
So, if this is the advertisement you are referring to, that puts a floor in the price and actually says the big boys are still buyers...
The 2008-Ws proofs and Uncs are almost all NGC slabbed and offered at prices well above recent completed Ebay sales.
They show the smaller fractionals are already sold out in many versions.
Interestingly the PR/MS69s and raw coins are in several instances sold out while the PR/MS70s remain suggesting to me people wanting examples without concern for grade.
The advertisement is accompanied with several paragraphs of hype.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-lewis/its-ponzimonium-in-the-go_b_519893.html
And another from The Motley Fool yesterday:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/04/05/is-your-safe-haven-a-house-of-cards.aspx
So...I'm guessing that holding physical inventory in the form of coins and bars IS better then ETFs after all???
<< <i>There is an easy way to sidestep all the scams, frauds, and phony nonsense. Take delivery on your bullion, whether a 1 oz. Kruggerand or a truckload of 400 oz. institutional bars. Put it in an independent, insured depository that is not affiliated with any bank. Assay all the holdings for tungsten counterfeits. Then audit it periodically, for exact serial numbers and specified weights. >>
Will Secure Plus ensure our gold is gold?
PS: The US$ / CAD$ rate is hovering around 1:1 right now.
Even if just one in a hundred is counterfiet I'll be p*ssed.............
Can tungsten be made into coins? There were some platinum counterfeits of gold coins in the 19th century, when platinum was cheaper than gold.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>You can always hang on to them to profit from the coming tungsten shortage.
Can tungsten be made into coins? There were some platinum counterfeits of gold coins in the 19th century, when platinum was cheaper than gold. >>
I was looking into that myself... it has maybe 10x the hardness of gold and it is almost the same density. (maybe those weren't die polish marks on the UHR, but machine marks instead
I always liked hearing conspiracy theories just for the fun...
but after the Iran-Contra Affair (we don't negotiate with terrorists**), The 9/11 NYC air quality coverup, the missing weapons of mass destruction (I personally watched on tv Colin Powell tell the UN those tubes were of the size and tolerances for nuclear enrichment and not missles) .... I just think the gov't certainly could be in the manipulation game. Is all of it true? I don't know. But we've got a lot of debt to protect and a run on our currency would surely hurt us. Also, a run up in the gold price would increase the fear in the currency(at least) markets. So, if there is doubt about if all of the ingots used to back futures trades are there, then mistrust increases. The implications for all gold is huge even if they are still making real gold coins.
And in a circumstance where the public loses confidence in big players in the market, old gold would fare better, imo. As they would be trusted more.
I am a little concerned about the manipulation theory. And the fake bars increases that worry. Of course the two could be separate scams. They threw the life saving government employees of NYC under the bus for "the good of the nation," why can't they stick it to me? I think they can and would. Are they? I'm not sure.
**Unless we do it and don't tell anyone.
<< <i>I've got to get busy and check all my 400 oz. bars.
Even if just one in a hundred is counterfiet I'll be p*ssed............. >>
The futures markets and the gold backing the contracts should be as tight as Fort Knox.
If 1 in a 1000 is fake, there is a huge problem.
I'd say most traders wouldn't know how to being to take physical delivery of the gold behind a futures contract, but the contract is a binding agreement and they could take delivery.
It's just that traders generally don't. The bars generally don't move. So, it is easy to throw in some fakes to make it look like the vaults are full for the audit.
The "safe-ness" involved with the futures markets is based upon the real physical existence of the bars. To trade against missing bars would be akin to trading stock in a phantom company with just a street address.
(Per the contracts, the Index Futures markets (Dow, Nasdaq, S&P, etc) are "cash settled" meaning they are only paper money backed and not stock backed. There it is "ok" to be without something phsyical other than the money. Not so for the metals markets.)
(pretty standard stuff)
(a) Gold, to be eligible for delivery upon an Exchange contract must be delivered to a Licensed Depository by an Approved Carrier as follows:
(i) directly from an Approved Producer for the account of such Approved Producer or an Exchange Clearing Member;
(ii) directly from an Approved Assayer for the account of an Exchange Clearing Member; provided, that such gold is accompanied by an assay certificate of such Approved Assayer; or
(iii) directly from another Licensed Depository for the account of an Exchange Clearing Member; provided, that such gold was placed in such other Licensed Depository pursuant to paragraphs (i) or (ii) of this Rule 113.09(a).
So, for the fake to get into the system, an "Approved Producer" lied, and "Approved Assayer" lied, or a "Licensed Depository" lied, or some combination.
The Exchange shall license facilities located within a 150 mile radius of the City of New York, in which gold may be stored for delivery on Exchange contracts ("Licensed Depositories"). Licensed Depositories may be added or eliminated from time to time, and the Exchange shall notify members of such changes and of the time when such changes shall become effective. The addition to or elimination of the names of Licensed Depositories shall not be deemed to affect the amount of money to be paid or the grade or quality of gold to be delivered on Exchange contracts, and shall be binding upon all such contracts entered into before as well as after the effective date of any such change, anything in the By-Laws to the contrary notwithstanding. Each Licensed Depository for gold shall also be designated as a Licensed Weighmaster for gold. Other Licensed Weighmasters may be licensed by the Exchange.
It looks like the raw coins are at 1K level and MS70s are in $1200.
<< <i>Anyone tracking the 2008-W gold burnished 1/4 $10 eagle??
It looks like the raw coins are at 1K level and MS70s are in $1200. >>
I did notice the buy prices on the raw full 2008-W Gold Set have risen on the bay and on BST.
All things W Gold apparently are rising for 2008 issues; come on Platinum (besides the spot price!)
Miles
Is the 2008 gold Buffalo market cooling...or just resting? "Only" $6,350 for a raw 4-coin proof set last night:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110513087674&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Or was this just a fluke/bargain caused by an auction ending late on a weekday afternoon???
Good point...I didn't notice that...OR the shipping cost $240.00!!!
For $240, those coins had better have their own seat on a Lufthansa flight!